Logan's Gen 3 Coupe-R Build

[Logan]

Background: Grew up in SW Minnesota/NW Iowa. I’ve been following FFR since the mid-1990's. I have many old brochures, but somehow lost my original DVD (bummed!). I grew up with the original forum (ffc0bra), and it felt like my second family, despite having never met anyone. Over the years I have built several motorcycles, done car and truck projects, done trackdays, built a 347 stroker, and owned a 2002 Mustang GT for a while that could have been a donor. Still, the FFR seemed like a distant dream; something to be done once I had a nice big shop and the disposable income that this car would require. Nothing stifles a car guy’s enthusiasm like suffering through northern winters, so finally I said enough is enough and moved south. Traded my diesel 4x4 pickup in and bought a new 2017 Mustang GT and started autocrossing it with the local club. During one of those events, who should casually show up for some racing but our own Erik Treves with his recently built FFR Daytona Coupe… and thus, my desire to build a FFR was reignited. Next April I finally placed my order with FFR. Intended usage: Daily driver, HPDE/track, and autocross, drifting, etc. The 2019 season ended with another jacket for winning the regional CAM-C class in my Mustang. Building the Coupe-R and racing a Mustang... Life is good!

June 29th 2019, Stewart calls with the "I'm an hour away" warning. I rushed home from work to receive the car I'd been dreaming about. Including the delivery guy, there were six of us working together to check off the boxes as they came out of the truck, and set the chassis onto a small trailer for transport over the long uphill gravel driveway. Once onto the concrete, we slid the chassis off the trailer and onto a dolly I had built, and pushed the entire thing with all the boxes into the garage.

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My chassis was on display at the FFR Open House 2019!

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I don't have any sort of deadline for a specific race entry or anything, so it’s not a rush job for me. I prefer to do things right the first time around, with the fewest possible reworks or surprises. As such, I spend as much time researching as I do building…or so it seems. I’ve been accused of over-engineering a lot of things....which is 100% true. Anyway, I’ll make posts to update with pictures and detail my build process until this thread is caught up to my present build status.

Logan’s Gen 3 Coupe-R:
Gen 3 Coupe-R (chassis serial #170)
Gen 3 Coyote (2019 Mustang GT donor engine)
QuickTime bellhousing
Tilton twin-disc clutch
Tilton billet chromoly steel flywheel
Tremec T56 Magnum
IRS with 3.73 Torsen differential
Driveshaft safety loop
Wilwood brakes
Hydraulic handbrake
KRC hydraulic power steering (still intrigued by EPAS/electric)
Shocks TBD (FFR Koni reds for now)
Spring rates TBD (FFR 750F/400R for now)
Swaybars TBD
Front aero (race bumper, canards/dive planes, hood vents, and splitter)
Bottom aero (flat floor, side vents, diffuser)
Rear aero (dual-element wing)
Air jacks with mobile nitrogen setup
Fire suppression
AiM MXP display/logger
Fixed high-back seats
6-point harnesses
Heated seats
Heat and air conditioning
Windshield wipers
Fixed side windows
Carpet
Under 2,900 lbs (hopefully)
305-315 front tires on 11-12” wheels
335-345 rear tires on 12”-13” wheels

[Logan]

June 1st 2019. I have been internally struggling with the decision of engine. Gen 2 Coyote, Gen 3 Coyote, 5.2L Voodoo, 5.2L Aluminator XS, and even (gasp) the LS/LT engine family were under my close scrutiny. My demands were simple: **naturally aspirated**, capable of 500hp to the tires (without race fuel), 7,500+ rpm redline minimum, and <$12,000. The budget wouldn’t allow the mighty 5.2L Aluminator, even though it is the one I wanted the most. Second most desirable was the 5.2L Voodoo (GT350), for the wicked sound of the flat plane crankshaft and 8,250 rpm redline… but the vibrations of the engine are a serious issue. Even Ford struggled with the primary and secondary vibrations of the engine, it likes to shred engine mounts and fatigue any metal parts bolted to it. The tubular space-frame FFR chassis is stout, and I was pondering how to manage the vibrations when I stepped back and realized, the Voodoo isn’t much cheaper than the Aluminator. And the computer requirements are even harder to sort out, because there is no crate-engine application of the Voodoo. Ford wanted to preserve the uniqueness by only offering it in the GT350. Understandable, but unfortunate too. So I chose to table the Voodoo idea… for now.

With the expensive engines eliminated, I was left with Gen 2 or 3 Coyote vs the LS/LT. My 2017 Mustang daily driver and autocross car means I am intimately familiar with the strengths and weaknesses of the Gen 2 coyote. Awesome overall! I raised the 7,000 rpm redline to 8,000. The low end torque, or lack thereof, is one of my few gripes with the car. It is still decent from 2k on up, but I would love an additional 80 lb-ft down low! Turning my attention to the Gen 3 Coyote, direct injection was added but port injection remains. Iron sleeve cylinder liners are gone (saving something like 40 lbs of weight) and replaced with plasma wire spray-arc cylinder liners. Fun fact: this allowed the bore to be increased slightly, meaning this is the first Coyote engine to actually be a true 5 liters, the Gen 1-2 are in the 4.95L area. So less weight and more displacement is good. Anything else? Ah yes, the factory redline was raised to 7,500 rpm and there’s a new intake manifold that out-flows pretty much everything else including the Cobra Jet and Boss 302 manifolds. This manifold is so good, I installed a ported one on my Gen 2 Mustang engine to complement the higher redline. The cost of the Gen 3 Coyote was reasonable too, just under $10k.

The Gen 3 Coyote seems like the clear winner, but there’s still a nagging voice in my head to look into the LS/LT. I’ll admit, I’m a little salty with GM products and the company as a whole, but I can’t overlook their legendary engine family. I refresh myself on their lineup, different generations, crate packages, etc. I had an opportunity to drive a 6th gen Camaro that had the latest 6.2L LT1 backed by a 6-speed TR6060 transmission (similar to a T56). Maybe this specific car had a REALLY dirty air filter, or maybe the heavy chassis was masking the true performance, or maybe I was too used to driving my Mustang? Whatever the reason, it felt lackluster. It drove and revved slowly like a Silverado. My 435hp Coyote seemed to be eager to rev, rushing to redline pulling ever harder as it climbs. The LT1 redline is a low 6,700 rpm, and I expected with 455hp it should at least get there quickly, but overall I left feeling disappointed. The low end torque WAS better than my Mustang, which was welcome, but the engine felt like it would much prefer to lazily cruise around the back roads in a higher gear than to downshift and make music. I’m sure with a few upgrades and a tune it might have come alive, but I don’t want to buy an LS and have to immediately upgrade the cam and entire valvetrain. Surely I could build an LS from scratch just the way I want, but that’s not exactly cheap either and it takes serious time. On top of all this, FFR doesn’t really “support” the LS. Lots of small hurdles to work around by choosing this path. And lastly, it’s sort of taboo to put a GM engine in a Daytona. Yes I know all the stories, Carroll Shelby originally went to GM but they denied him engines, and yes I know Pete Brock designed the body and he has an LS in his personal Daytona to this day, but still. I have decided I am sticking with Ford. ..maybe I should have test driven a Corvette? LOL :D

So there I was, about a month before my Coupe-R would arrive. I’m on the computer one night when I notice the sidebar with “Suggested Marketplace Items” has a picture of a 2019 Mustang wreck. Click the ad and what do you know…a Gen 3 Coyote for sale, and it’s only 2 hours from my house! Fast forward about a week and the engine has been personally delivered to me at my work! I loaded it onto my trailer pulled by my Mustang, and took it home that afternoon. Wasn’t expecting to buy the engine before the kit arrived, but at half of my engine budget, I would have been stupid to pass it by.

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[Logan]

Now, time for inventory. Every nut, bolt, washer, clip, and part was counted. Very few items turned out to be missing, and they were quickly corrected after a call to FFR. POL (Parts Order List) of backordered items was 1.5 pages long, but nothing too major that would stop progress for a while. With the Gen 3 Coyote sitting on an engine stand against the wall, looking at me, I felt for the first time like this was really happening. Well what are you waiting for?! Let the build commence!! First order of business was to remove the body, and put it behind the house until I’m ready for it. Marked and removed all the aluminum panels, and suddenly it’s a bare chassis powdercoated beautiful gloss white, but completely bare naked. I took this opportunity to weigh the chassis because I am technical and my engineering brain demands to know these things. For those like me....the Coupe-R chassis weighs exactly 540 lbs, and I’ve heard various places that the R chassis is around 70-80 lbs heavier than the standard (S) chassis due to the extra tubing. The first part to be officially installed was the steering rack.

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[Logan]

Some of the things I intend to do with the car require me to modify or upgrade the FFR supplied parts. Note: this does not mean the stock parts included with the kit are not perfectly acceptable or safe to use, rather I’m expecting to increase the performance of certain areas which means going off the beaten path, when possible. One of the biggest issues I have encountered but am unable to easily correct is with the front spindle and hub. FFR designed their own spindle, and it closely mimics the SN95 (1994-2004) Mustang spindle geometry, except it uses double A-arms instead of struts. The brake caliper mounting holes are dimensioned the same, which means brake kits for those era Mustangs usually* bolt up to the FFR spindle. Normally that’s perfect, as there are a dozen brands making kits for those cars which have been around for a long time. That said, technology has advanced since then, and it would be nice if they would redesign their spindle and hub to S197 (05-14), S550 (15+), or even just beefier custom specs to improve geometry and strength. It could still use standardized brake caliper hole spacing too, so donor brakes or aftermarket stuff like AP Racing or Wilwood can bolt up.

*I say usually because if you go with certain big-brake kits that were designed for the SN95 Mustang, they don’t always bolt right up to the FFR spindle, even though it is SN95 inspired. My spindles had too much material in the webbing at the upper caliper mounts. I had to grind away some of this webbing to allow my Wilwood caliper mounting brackets to fit.

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The SN95 wheel bearing is generally fine, and cheap to replace, but it’s on the small side. The S550 wheel bearing is larger and stronger, and still cheap and available anywhere. On top of that, the holes for the wheel studs on the FFR/SN95 hubs are made for 1/2” studs, and the S550 hubs are 14mm (0.55”). FFR tells you to press the larger studs out of the rear hubs (if you have IRS) and supplies smaller 1/2” studs to press in, leaving you with 1/2” studs all the way around. Personally I chose to go the other way. I pressed out the 1/2” studs from the front hubs, and reamed the holes to be a tolerance-fit with the larger 14mm studs, and then pressed those in. Now my car has 14mm studs all around and I can use the same splined lug nuts I use with all my wheels for my 2017 Mustang. Making the best of what I’ve got here.

The spindle itself has a fair amount of flex to it also, as discovered under racing conditions by John George and Mark Dougherty. Their fix was to weld a thick plate of steel on the backside, vertically between ball joints, to brace the spindle from flexing and causing pad-knockback. Before you panic, this was with racing slicks and cornering forces near 2+ G’s...so this is not an issue you’ll encounter while driving your FFR on the street. I will have to wait until I can do my own testing to determine whether I experience this or need to do a similar mod.

With the spindle sorted for now, I focused on the rest of the front suspension. The upper control arms are nice, but as others have found, the rear turnbuckle needs to be shortened slightly to allow maximum caster to be achieved. This is really only desirable if using power steering, which I am. Disassemble the rear turnbuckle and trim the ends of the threaded sleeve. I cut the rounded ends off so only the hexagonal body remained (shortens the sleeve by approximately 1/2”). Then painted and reassembled.

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For the rear IRS, cut the knuckles down with a sawzall, flap wheel on a grinder to clean up, and drill the holes out for the larger bolts. Not too bad.

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Since I have been autocrossing my S550 Mustang, I have wanted to put taller rear gears in it for a higher top speed in 2nd gear where you spend the entire run. The factory Performance Package Mustangs like mine come with a 3.73 Torsen, which is a great unit, but was limiting my speed. I debated opening my diff and installing a replacement ring and pinion so that I could keep the Torsen inside, but it turned out to be easier and cheaper to swap the entire unit with a complete 3.55 diff I bought on eBay. The 3.55 has Trak-Lok clutch-type discs inside which don't perform quite as well or last as long as the Torsen, but I figured I could always rebuild it later if they wear out. I saved the 3.73 differential just in case, and I'm glad I did! Because about a year later, now I already have a diff for the FFR, and thankfully with the engine, transmission, and tires I was planning to run, the 3.73 ratio would be about perfect. Plus the Torsen gets to go into the FFR! Pure win all around. I painted the differential with POR15, which turned out great, and installed it in the chassis.

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Lastly, I wasn't done modifying things enough apparently so I took the FFR leather steering wheel to the pillar drill and created 6 new holes on a standard pattern which will mount to the quick-release I was planning to use. The FFR Moto-Lita pattern is just too unique it isn't really common and makes fitment with other more standardized parts a pain. My solution was to drill the new array of holes split-centered between the existing ones. Easy fix, and works like a charm.

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[Logan]

Suspension was all hung loosely for a while, during which time I was drilling the aluminum panels. I took some extra time to fabricate a few extras too. I bought a 4'x6' sheet of slightly thicker aluminum than the FFR supplied panels to make all these parts with, and still have a bunch of it left over. I use Excel to nest the desired pieces using their flat dimensions so that I can minimize waste and maximize the usage of material. I made a cargo box in the rear, to the maximum allowable size limited only by the frame and fuel tank. I still have to make a tri-fold lid for it, which will hinge from the left and hopefully clear the hatch glass when the lid is fully hinged open (can someone take a measurement of the cargo area flat floor to the bottom of the hatch glass at a low point and higher point, then I can draw a line and check?)

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Next I fabricated a firewall closeout panel, similar to what others have done before. No reason not to on the Gen 3 chassis. It's perfectly simple to run the fuel lines and wire harness under the bar and just above the bellhousing, no need to have them come out from inside this framework area. You can see my rivnuts for the fuel pressure regulator with reliefs in the aluminum also.

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I ran into an issue with the cargo area side panels. I received both of them from FFR, but only one of them had the required bend in the panel. Someone took the right side panel and bent flanges along the perimeter, but forgot to put the big bend in the center so that it actually fits against the chassis bars. I was slightly perturbed, but I figured instead of making them ship a huge aluminum panel replacement to me, I could make the bend myself. Thankfully when they laser cut the aluminum, they leave small diameter holes at the ends of the bend areas. So I used those holes as my line. The problem is, I don't own a metal brake. I could buy one, even the inexpensive 30-inch Harbor Freight one, but with this panel already having flanges on the edges, the panel wouldn't fit in the brake anyway. So I dug out some scrap angle iron and made a very questionable looking but honestly highly effective homemade brake on the edge of a workbench. It took an hour, but the finished panel actually fits WAY better than the left side which FFR bent and shipped with the kit. How ironic, and funny! I considered fixing the bend on the LH panel, but haven't done so yet.

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[Logan]

Fuel system has been mocked up. I'll outline my path: I went with the Pro-M Racing fuel pump hanger, which comes highly recommended around here and it's easy to see why. Nice unit, and full flowing supply and return. The latter of which runs to the BOTTOM of the tank...eliminating aeration. Coupled that with a Walbro 255 lph fuel pump, and dropped it in the tank. I had to grind away some material around the locking ring area to get the hanger through the hole. Pro-M sends instructions detailing this, and it's very easy with a rotary tool. Swish some gasoline around in the tank to clear out any metal dust. From the hanger, I used Vibrant Performance -6 AN connectors, with Vibrant -6 PTFE lined hose, into the Trick Flow fuel filter (another highly recommended product). Out of the filter up to the Aeromotive fuel pressure regulator, mounted to the firewall. From the regulator one line goes out to the engine (quick-connector to -6AN adapter clips right onto the fuel rail), and the other line out from the regulator goes back to the Pro-M fuel pump hanger. All the fuel lines are braided stainless steel, PTFE lined, with a black nylon sheath because I think it looks nice and its not nearly as abrasive to nearby components in case it were to rub on anything. No hard-lines means less overall fittings, saving money and giving fewer leak points. They run through the tunnel, because there's really nowhere else for them to go. This is yet another reason (as if you need any additional) to get yourself a driveshaft safety loop. I am fabricating one right now, and will install once I get the driveline in so I know where to mount it.

I also mounted my brake and clutch reservoir. I went with the Tilton 3-chamber full-capacity model with the hose barb ends. If I had to do it again, I'd get the one with AN fittings. The barbs are made for 3/8" hose, and the Wilwood master cylinders are made for 1/4" hose. I ordered Tilton 5/16" hose to split the difference. Took a Herculean effort to get the hose over the barb ends, but finally did. Hose clamps are more for looks at this point...those things will never come loose. I wanted to mount the reservoir in the triangle ahead of the footbox, like the master EdwardB has done, but with the -R chassis there are additional braces in that location that prevent me from doing it. I'm not crazy about the location I chose, but it fits in that area nicely. The front and rear brake circuits will use the chambers furthest forward for easier trackside access, and the clutch will use the chamber closest to the firewall since it will be the least-serviced one.

Oh yeah, I also dropped the engine in... surprise! Actually it has been in and out of the chassis at least 3-4 times by now, but the first time was a big deal at least to me.

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It's a rolling chassis! Using my S550 wheels and tires, wrapped in storage tire totes most of the time.

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I've also fitted the throttle pedal that was included in the Ford Racing Controls Pack which I got for the Gen 3 Coyote around the holidays. I modified the FFR bracket, originally designed for the Roadster I think but came with my kit, and after much cutting/drilling/fitting/repeating, I came up with a solution. It's flush to the frame-side bracket at the top, but is spaced out over 1" on the bottom, essentially removing the "angle" of the frame-side bracket and giving the pedal a near-vertical surface to mount to. This helps the actuation feel more like you're pressing the pedal away from you in a downward swinging motion, instead of feeling like you're pressing the pedal sort of "uphill". I also shaved the plastic as far as possible while still allowing the electrical connector to clear the steering column. And yes I dug out the wiring harness, located the connector, and clicked it in to check during this entire process. You literally cannot get the S550 pedal mounted ANY higher than I have it, while clearing the steering column with the bearings in the stock FFR locations. I wanted the pedal as long as possible, for maximum resolution... you do not want this to be an ON/OFF switch, especially during an autocross.

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[Logan]

Engine mods. I know I said the last thing I wanted to do was buy an engine and have to dump a bunch of money into it or tear it apart and rebuild most/all of it. So buying the Gen 3 Coyote was my way of leaving well enough alone, right? Partially right. The thing is, the Coyote has many strengths and very few weaknesses but the biggest weak link in the engine is the OPG (oil pump gears) and crankshaft sprocket. They're made from powdered metal, and while incredibly strong given their surreal manufacturing technique, they are brittle. If the harmonics are just right, or the load on them is too great, they will crack. If you took one in your hand and dropped it on the concrete, it would break into pieces or shatter. The harder you push the Coyote, the bigger this risk becomes of having them crack inside the engine. High RPM, especially anything over 8,000+ is sure to lead to failure of these parts. Also adding a belt driven supercharger puts additional load on the crankshaft snout, which puts stress onto these parts, and causes them to fail. So it's highly recommended and pretty common in the aftermarket Mustang world to replace these two components with billet steel versions. There are many companies offering billet steel replacements that are an order of magnitude stronger, and can take anything you're capable of throwing at them without breaking a sweat. I picked up a set and installed them in my Gen 3 Coyote as preventative maintenance, so I won't have to worry about them failing while I'm racing at high RPM... or in case I add a supercharger down the road... (hint? Nah. Well, maybe... )

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Took the front cover off and dismantled the entire timing system. Lots of chains, pins, bolts, tensioners and guides... it's easy to feel overwhelmed. If you analyze what's here, it becomes easier to understand. There are millions of cars using this kind of timing chain setup, and this one is not so different. Primary chains run from the crank sprocket to the exhaust cams, and then secondary chains run from the exhaust cams to the intake cams. One set just like that per cylinder bank. That's it. A pair of guides and a single tensioner per bank, and that's about all there is to it. The oil pump housing is what we're looking for, and it is between the crank sprocket and the first main cap of the bottom end. Take the housing out of the engine, then split the housing open. Old gears on the left, and new billet gears on the right...covered in assembly lube.

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Button up the front end, put the front cover and both valve covers back on, and flip the engine over for the oil pan. I bought the Moroso 20570 that most everyone with a Coyote uses, and a set of their 6mm studs. Using a 2018+/GT350 oil pickup tube makes this easy now (wasn't around when EdwardB was first doing his). The pickup tube is held in place with the Ford windage tray and an O-ring. I would have preferred a mechanical locking feature/bolt, but I suppose the suction of the pump will keep it seated. Plus it can't really go anywhere once the pan is on, so let it be.

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With the pan installed, time to work on the back of the engine. I removed the flexplate from the Coyote, since this was originally equipped with a 10-speed automatic in a 2019 Mustang. Installed the Tilton solid billet chromoly steel flywheel with the provided ARP bolts and lube. Then before even thinking about the clutch, I wanted to get the bellhousing installed and fitted. Those of you familiar with dial-indicating a bellhousing for concentricity and parrallelism can attest, it's definitely a process to complete this step. Some guys slap the whole thing together, but Tremec Transmissions and QuickTime bellhousings BOTH specifically tell you to measure the bellhousing before installing. The whole focus is to ensure the input shaft of the transmission will be perfectly inline with the pilot bearing in the back of the crankshaft. You don't want the input shaft pointing off in a direction other than straight forward (parallelism), nor do you want the straight-forward input shaft to be off to one side putting all it's pressure on the 3 o'clock point of the pilot bearing, for example (concentricity). You want them to share the same center point AND direction. I bought my T56 Magnum from Bowler Performance Transmissions, and I picked up their dial indicator plate. Machined large diameter circle, locating pins for the bell, and a flat plane for parallel checking made it a no brainer for $70. The alternative if you do not have this tool is to remove the front cover from your brand new T56 transmission and use that for your measurements. Questionably voiding your warranty (everyone is fuzzy on this), and it's technically less accurate than the Bowler plate because the diameter of circle you're measuring to is less than half the size of their plate. My engine to bellhousing required 0.007" offset dowels to correct, and I'm happy to report that I got down to half the recommended spec. They suggest no more than 0.005" and my measurements were within 0.0025". Perfect! This will make the trans shift as smooth as possible, and keep all the parts happy with no stress from misalignment. I also trimmed the bottom of the bell and block plate flush with the oil pan, and clearanced around the drain plug so I can fit a socket on it instead of just an open end wrench like it was before.

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[Logan]

With the bellhousing dial indicated perfectly, it was time to install the clutch. Tilton is a leading manufacturer of racing clutches that can cost more than an entire FFR kit, but they decided to finally enter the street market. They did so with a product that blew the industry away, especially at the price they're asking. I decided to give it a try, so I picked up their new ST-246 twin-disc clutch. Sprung hubs, organic compound, NAS fasteners, billet-aluminum pressure plate (!), extra thick floater plate for thermal mass, it's pretty much top of the spec chart in all categories but the best part is that it costs LESS than some others I was considering which only have stamped steel pressure plates, thin floaters, solid hubs and/or ceramic pucks. Not many driving impressions to be found yet, since it's so new, but the few that have had the chance to drive with it say it feels like magic. Light pedal effort, incredible clamping force, light weight but still retaining inertia, what more could you ask for?? Here it is installed:

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Now as awesome as the clutch is, the extra thickness of this setup combined with the relatively shallow depth of the QuickTime RM-8080 bellhousing means there's not much room left for the hydraulic release bearing. I went with the Tilton 6000-Series HRB, and it's as awesome a unit as their clutch. Install is straightforward....usually. But with the space limitations described, I was not prepared for the amount of modification that needed to be done to my brand new T56 Magnum. The pilot tube length is normally a non-issue, but with my limited space I needed to shorten it by over an inch, or it would contact the rear clutch disc before the trans was even seated. I confirmed with Bowler Transmission's service guys that the pilot tube can be shortened. They suggest a pipe cutter so that it can be done with the front cover on. Much micrometer measuring later, I have a shortened pilot tube. Doesn't leave a perfect edge finish, but it's the best I can do without removing the front cover. No room even for my micro-files to fit into the gap between it and the input shaft. Next, the guide pin needed to be recessed into the hole, because the hex portion was keeping the HRB from going all the way to the back of the pilot tube. So I ground down two nubs of cast aluminum from the front cover, and then counterbored the threaded hole to allow the guide pin to recess about 6mm further than before. With ALL of this done, the HRB height was set, and the trans is now ready to be installed on the engine. This is the point that I'm at right now, because I'm waiting to attach the transmission to the bellhousing. I attempted it for about 30 minutes yesterday, but the input shaft wont slide through both clutch discs and engage the pilot bearing, so I think my discs need to be aligned better than the cheap flimsy $8 plastic tool is capable of. I ordered a billet steel alignment tool from Ram Clutches today. It's basically a T56 input shaft with a handle, so I'll loosen the pressure plate and use that to align the discs better, then bolt it back together and hopefully the trans will slide right into place. Twin discs are even more finicky on alignment than single disc clutches, but it can be done and the rewards should pay dividends.

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There's only one more post I need to make (air jacks), then the entire build thread will be up to date...

[Logan]

Okay, this next part is just pure racecar. I made it a must-have from the very beginning of my build plan though, and so I am following through. Air jacks.

The FFR Snap-On/Joey Logano Coupe-R uses Allstar Performance air jacks, but they never showed them off or posted pictures of any of the brackets they made. Looking back, I suppose I could have asked nicely to see pics of their brackets, but it's too late now because I fabricated all of my own brackets and welded them to my chassis. I over-engineer things a lot, and I'm a fan of "Overkill is under-rated", so the mounts I made are not particularly light (they weigh a combined total of about 15 lbs) but they are strong enough to lift more than the finished car's weight. I used 3/16"x3" angle iron plus the rings that come with the jacks to fabricate simple upper and lower mounts for each point. I wanted to bolt them to the chassis, but after considering the flex in a bolted joint, and trying to achieve a high enough clamp-load on the fasteners to eliminate said flex but without crushing the tubing they were bolted to, I decided welding would be much better overall. The problem is, I don't own a welder... pretty silly since I've had my welding certification for years. The upshot is I have now confirmed that the rolling chassis fits on a UTV trailer! Lol And thankfully I have friends nearby who are as car crazy as me, and willing to let me borrow their lift and welder on the weekends.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=121279&d=1579828596

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[kd0wda]

Hi Logan,

I noticed in the photo above, the upper control arm is mounted in between those two plates and bolted in place. I discovered in my printed manual (revision 4L, 2019) that there is an additional page added to the end of these steps showing that you install this ABOVE the plate and use two spacers in-between them. Oddly they didn't REMOVE the previous instructions and photos, so I originally installed as you did, then discovered the new page with updated instructions. I'm wondering why the difference? Anyone from FFR shed some light on this? Is this due to some different control arms being provided with newer kits?


121551


-Rob

[q4stix]

*edit* Just see edwardb's response below and ignore me

[edwardb]

Hi Logan,

I noticed in the photo above, the upper control arm is mounted in between those two plates and bolted in place. I discovered in my printed manual (revision 4L, 2019) that there is an additional page added to the end of these steps showing that you install this ABOVE the plate and use two spacers in-between them. Oddly they didn't REMOVE the previous instructions and photos, so I originally installed as you did, then discovered the new page with updated instructions. I'm wondering why the difference? Anyone from FFR shed some light on this? Is this due to some different control arms being provided with newer kits?

121551

-Rob

The answer is basically in the caption. That top location is if you're using the "race" upper hole locations for the coilovers, which lowers the entire chassis. Or "base" meaning you're using donor Mustang spindles versus the complete kit 2-piece FFR spindles. I would say most typical builds (like this one if you look at the pics) are using the lower coilover holes, the 2-piece spindles, and the UCA between the two plates. Not on top.

[Erik W. Treves]

Also for those of you that don't know... Logan will be using this Coupe R as street driver as well as race... so he is in the S configuration.

[kd0wda]

The answer is basically in the caption. That top location is if you're using the "race" upper hole locations for the coilovers, which lowers the entire chassis. Or "base" meaning you're using donor Mustang spindles versus the complete kit 2-piece FFR spindles. I would say most typical builds (like this one if you look at the pics) are using the lower coilover holes, the 2-piece spindles, and the UCA between the two plates. Not on top.

Thanks for the clarification. I completely misinterpreted the caption to mean that if you had the "R" frame you mount them up there.

[Logan]

EdwardB has it correct. If using the donor spindles, or setting the chassis at Race height, then the upper arms would be above the two plates to maintain suspension geometry. Since you can only get the Coupe-R as a complete kit, it will always have the 2-piece FFR spindles, and never the donor spindles. If I ever move the chassis down but putting the suspension in race height at all four upper coilover bolt locations, I would at that point move the upper control arms to the top of the plates and also probably move the steering rack to the upper hole location also to preserve tie rod geometry.

Erik is also correct, this car will be registered and street driven so I’m starting out using the S height for my chassis. That probably won’t change either, unless I have a big track event where the effort to lower the chassis would be worth it.

[Logan]

I mentioned that I chose Wilwood brakes, but didn't mention that it took months of research after deciding to spec my own custom setup. I wanted to have as many of the same parts as possible for commonality in spare parts (easier to bring one size rotor, caliper, and pads to the track rather than two of everything). I finally settled on the Forged Narrow Superlite 6R in red all around, but with 4.86 sq.in. piston area in front and 4.04 sq.in. piston area in rear. Hopefully the shiny powdercoating doesn't bake off with the high temps... For rotors I have 14x1.25" all around (which limits parking brake options to virtually none), more on that later.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=121975&d=1580863165

Couple engine updates. The starter that came with my 2019 Mustang engine was a 2-bolt. QuickTime RM-8080 bellhousing requires a 3-bolt. Considered the high-end Powermaster 9532 XS Torque Starter, or the Ford Racing M-11000-C50, but with both of them between $250-300, I passed and went with the more generic 3-bolt starter that has been around for decades in all types of Ford Modular engines. Around $120. Picture shows the 2019 Mustang 2-bolt on the left and the replacement on the right. Yes, it's bigger, but it still fits fine.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=121968&d=1580863088

I also installed the KRC power steering setup. This includes a bracket, pump assembly, replacement pulley for the water pump with an integrated secondary pulley for the KRC PS, and the belt. Just need to figure out the PS hoses now. If you're going to use the KRC power steering setup, I suggest NOT using the Honda PS fluid that is often highly recommended, instead use the fluid that KRC sells. It is proven to work with their pumps on their pump dynos for hours on end at high temp. Someone had an issue with the Honda fluid, I think EdwardB? I made a note of it and want to pass the tip along.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=121971&d=1580863123

After those engine bits were finished, I finally got my T56 Magnum trans married to my Coyote. The solution was a $60 billet clutch alignment tool made by Ram Clutches PN 03-048. The cheap plastic clutch tool they throw in for free with any clutch purchase is a nice gesture, but does NOT have tight enough tolerances to keep the clutch (especially my twin disc) perfectly aligned to the pilot bearing. I could get my input shaft to engage the rear disc, but then it would bind every time. After struggling for a while, I ordered the tool like I knew I should have from the start. Sucks pulling the bellhousing back off (with 13+ torqued fasteners), and the pressure plate which had loctite on the 6 torqued fasteners, but it's done now. Everything reinstalled and torqued with the billet tool in place, and the trans slid 97% in with light hand pressure. Gently pulled them together with the bolts around the perimeter, turning each one maybe 90 degrees at a time, mostly overcoming the dowel press fit (there was no bind whatsoever). With that, took off the shifter plate and dropped the whole unit in the chassis!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=121976&d=1580865117

I have also mounted the A/C Evaporator unit. Yet another item that is made harder because of the -R chassis I have. There is a diagonal bar just above the occupants knees on the drivers side of all Coupes, but on the Coupe-R there is a matching bar on the passenger side. Without that bar, there is room to bring the evaporator into the cockpit another couple inches and makes mounting it fairly straightforward. With the bar there, I had to get REALLY creative in placement. There is literally no other position besides what I have (shown in pics) to fit the unit in a Coupe-R chassis, and even with mine, I'll be making a new outlet panel for the end to move the outlets into the top left corner (3D printed or sheet aluminum).

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=121969&d=1580863099

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=121970&d=1580863109

Despite having less than 2mm of clearance on all sides (seriously this thing is nearly holds itself in place it's wedged in so tight), there is a pocket just ahead of the heater coolant tubes where the blower fan intake is. I hate clutter, and was looking for a way to hide the 4-port heater control switch. Didn't want to put it on top of the footbox back against the firewall because the wiper motor goes there. So I found there is just enough room to install the 4-port switch inside the footbox mounted pretty much directly to the evaporator unit itself. It doesn't obstruct the blower fan intake, and the distance between ports on the switch pretty much lines up directly with the tubes on the evap unit. I will not use the bulkhead fittings (likely not for the AC lines either, I'm just not crazy about them), but will have rubber grommets around each of the 4 hoses. With the light weight of the switch, I'm guessing the short stiff hoses and clamps will be plenty to hold it in place, but if not, I can rivet directly to the switch bracket through the front footbox aluminum.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=121972&d=1580863138

[Logan]

Continued... Reached 7 pics per post limit.

With the engine and trans in, I was able to measure for my hydraulic handbrake. With rear rotors that are 14x1.25" thick, the options for parking brakes are virtually none. The Wilwood spot caliper (secondary) that FFR sells and many use will not fit the width without machining a spacer, and that's too much work. There are no other cable actuated parking calipers that work on this size rotor either. So, I could use a second full size caliper, or find a way to actuate my existing calipers hydraulically from a second source that isn't the foot pedal. This is where I chose to use a hydraulic handbrake. My choice may have also been influenced by the prospect of doing some light drifting with the car, so a "hydro" as they call it is not an out-of-place addition to a car of this type. The handbrake uses an inline master cylinder in the rear hydraulic circuit. Driver can push the brake pedal like normal, and have all four calipers working normally. Line pressure is unaffected, you'd never know there was anything different. However, when you pull the handle of the handbrake, it actuates the inline master cylinder and applies pressure to the rear calipers only. Release the handle, and everything is normal. Since the handbrake is downstream (closer to the calipers), if you were to push the brake pedal and pull the handbrake at the same time, the handbrake would be the primary force applied (pedal would still be applying force to the front brakes, of course).

I can never seem to take the easy way out, so true to form I plan to mount the hydro under the trans tunnel alongside the T56 transmission. There's very little room to do this, so I had to shop for a couple weeks to find the perfect hydro with the most compact dimensions, and I happened to find it. Oddly enough, they're manufactured just 2 hours away from where I live! As soon as I received it, I fabricated a bracket to mount it. Just needs to be welded in now.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=121977&d=1580867603

I also took the drill and saw to my Breeze fan shroud. Cut four rectangular slots for the rubber flaps. The point of these flaps is primarily to regain some of the "lost" airflow capacity that the shroud removed by covering some surface area on the back of the radiator. At speed, air pressure will easily open the flaps and allow extra flow beyond what the 16" circle where the fan is can allow. When stopped, the flaps close. When the fan comes on, the negative pressure actually pulls the flaps tightly closed, ensuring all suction is drawing through the radiator. Gotta love simple devices that just work. Once I file the edges of these slots, and drill the three mounting holes per flap, I will paint the shroud and install them.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=121973&d=1580863148

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=121974&d=1580863155

[P100DHG]

I love the idea of the louvres on the Breeze fan shroud! Great work keep it up!

[Logan]

Since the last update, a couple friends have helped get the ball rolling on the wiring side of things. Car guys around here are getting cabin fever since we have no local racing events going on due to CV19. Plumbing, wiring, and ordering fluids for the first start which has been given a deadline of August 8th, so the clock is ticking!

Items completed:

Welded clutch pedal stop to footbox, with adjustable elevator bolt
Finished plumbing air jacks and tested...these are awesome!
Installed the EVAP unit with 3D printed offset outlet panel installed
Dynamat heat/vibration and Dynaliner sound proofing installed in footboxes
Welded driveshaft safety loop in
Welded mounts for Moroso coolant expansion tank
Cut trans tunnel for hydro handle pass-through
Installed battery and fabricated a steel retainer bracket
Routed and secured various lines and wires in engine bay and footboxes
Mounted AC condensor and power steering cooler to radiator
Dash fabricated and bent, working on glovebox now


Other small items complete also, but I don't have time to write out a long post. Here are some pics (I resized smaller than the earlier pics, hopefully these are a better size):


https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=132225&d=1595386452

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[John Dol]

Great build so far Logan, I like when people go of the beaten path!

John

[Logan]

Beat the deadline for first start by a week! Officially had the engine running on August 1st 2020. Ended up driving it out into the driveway about 40 feet, then backed it right back in the garage and shut it off. No coolant meant I couldn't run for an extended period. I built an oil pre-lube device from an old SBC pump and some fittings. Spun with a drill, I could prime the engine with fresh oil until it was running to the top of the cams on the Gen3 Coyote. Had oil pressure BEFORE the engine was even started which was nice. Fuel pressure set, oil pressure good, power steering primed and nothing leaked. Success!

Some minor tinkering between then and now, but the next report worthy progression was this past weekend. Coolant system filled, seat installed (mostly) and did a true first drive. Total of 3 short trips close to/around the house, put on about 3 miles. Gen3 Coyote needs a tune....bad. In addition to a tune, I made a short punch list of items to complete, and tentatively planned to autocross the go-kart middle of October. We'll see if that pans out. But it would be fun!

I'll see about uploading a video of the first drive here.

[Logan]

https://youtu.be/NIT76wDeKv4

[P100DHG]

Love it! Just love the extra touches you’ve done. So clean looking and looks like it runs and drives fantastic. Congratulations

[Rsnake]

Logan, I love your build! Lots of great go fast goodies that I will be using on mine including the brakes.
Congratulations on the test drive, those tires look huge, what size and are those the tires you will be running?
I am still undecided on tires and wheels but love the look of yours.

[Snowman]

Looks great! Glad you made this huge milestone in the build.

[Logan]

P100DHG - Thanks! Of course it’s the extra touches that have kept this project from being finished sooner. Hopefully all worth it in the end.

Rsnake - Thanks! These are actually my autocross wheels and tires for my 2017 Mustang. They will not be the final wheel or tire I use on my Coupe, because I’m hoping to go wider yet. However they work well for the build and go-karting phases. They are 19x11”+50 with 305 RE71Rs squared. Interestingly, I use a spacer in the front of the Mustang, but the rear of the Coupe. Can’t determine fitment to order new wheels until I get the body installed.

Snowman - Thanks! Sure feels good to drive it after so much time building it. Will be even better once I’m racing it!

[Logan]

Been working on exhaust plans for a while. FFR sidepipes aren’t going to work for me for 2 reasons: too loud, and poor flow. I do love the way they look, but that pro doesn’t offset the two cons. The FFR-supplied Coyote headers are actually made by GP Headers. I talked to these guys at PRI 2019 and on top of being genuinely cool people they do beautiful stainless fab work. Note, FFR now offers a ball-and-socket type header that is imported chrome, but not sure if they dropped the GP Headers made stainless ones.

The only thing I don’t like about the GP Headers is the square flange. Looking back, I would have cut it off and welded a V-Band flange to the round area of the merge collector, but I can’t get the pipes off without lifting the engine again and I’m not particularly fond of that so going to work with the square flange for now. My solution is to build a tight-radius 4” round 90-degree elbow, square flange on one end to bolt to the FFR/GP Headers and a V-band flange at the other end. This will be left in place at all times. Then I will have a V-Band connection outside the car at the front of the sidepipe where I can attach various mufflers to. One quiet for tracks with severe noise restrictions, and one open pipe for maximum flow/power/noise.

I am down to sourcing the laser cut flanges now, have everything else to make the elbows and first set of sidepipes. Going with a single 4” round sidepipe for starters, which will probably become my “Quiet Setup” because it’s easy to add baffles to a single 4” round tube.

[only1moreracecaripromiss]

Logan,
Love the input here and detailed information on your project. I'm expecting my coup 65 R kit in May and like you I'm already socking away way too many bits to build this thing. I see that you have the nose dive planes on your list like the Snap On build. Can you tell me where you sourced these as I cant find them on FFR parts list.

[Rsnake]

Logan,
Did you get your wheels ordered yet?

[Logan]

Logan, I see that you have the nose dive planes on your list like the Snap On build. Can you tell me where you sourced these as I can't find them on FFR parts list.

Firstly, congrats on joining the forum and ordering your kit! You used your first post on this forum in my build thread... I am honored. Lol

To your question, the canards (dive planes) are available from FFR. You can call and ask for them, made in their composites shop. A word of warning though, they're not the quality you might expect of a high-end carbon fiber race part from someone like Anderson Composites, APR, Seibon, Speedkore, etc. They're raw carbon straight out of the mold, weave imperfections and fringed edges included. They are NOT clear coated and pretty like what you see on the Snap On car. So expect to do plenty of body work on them (and any other composites received from FFR, the main body included) if you wish to go that way. Had I known, I would have simply made my own. They are not overly difficult shapes even for a beginner.


Logan, Did you get your wheels ordered yet?

Rsnake, I planned to order wheels during Black Friday sales of 2020.... but things were/are tight so didn't place the order. Thank goodness too! Forgestar just released a new wheel profile for the F14 which I will be going with. I was already expecting to be on the extreme end of their available offset on the SDC (Super Deep Concave) wheels, but they have now released a profile called UDC (Ultra Deep Concave) that is available in negative offsets....finally! I will still wait until I put the body on my car to measure for exact fitment. Should be ordering them sometime this Spring though.


Now, update time.

My daily driver 2017 Mustang GT Premium w/ Performance Pack has been a GREAT car, but I knew all along it would be replaced with a truck so I can haul the FFR as needed. So the day after Christmas I drove the Mustang up to Tennessee and traded it in for a 2021 Ram 1500 Big Horn Level 2 Night Edition. Cross the tow vehicle off the list! Now I need a trailer... considering building my own from scratch with a lowering deck that requires no ramps (yes I have a problem).

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=141642&d=1611971629

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=141641&d=1611971621

On the FFR Daytona front....the video a few posts back left out some detail. I had fabricated a bead-forming tool and used it to great success on my aluminum upper radiator tube. Then, ordered the Boig lower aluminum tube after trying half a dozen ways of routing the rubber hoses, with and without a spring inside which tries but doesn't always prevent hose collapse. Plus the amount of hose sticking into the wheel well was too much for comfort, especially considering the amount of wheel and tire I have to stuff in there. Highly recommend the Boig cool tube... nice product and fits perfectly. Filled the Gen3 Coyote with Motorcraft coolant and purged air through the Moroso tank. Just like an OEM Mustang setup, couldn't be simpler. Ran the car for 30 minutes going through multiple radiator fan cycles. All systems looked good. Since then, I have been driving the car here and there. Put about 30 (loud) miles on so far, and need about 100 miles on the clutch for break-in before I can race it. Between this and the tune status, it's the reason I didn't get to race it in 2020. So close!!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=141640&d=1611971609

During the 30 miles worth of driving, a clunking noise was identified. Turned out to be the bearings I installed in the control arms, one per arm was backwards, so the longitudinal loading caused the retaining rings inside to be forced from their groove, and the captive spherical bearing to move within the shell. Unfortunately, they are easy to press in, but there are no fixturable points with which to press them back out, so I had to weld a tab onto each end to press the incorrectly oriented bearings out and press them in from the other side. As a note, to anyone using bearings in place of the polyurethane bushings... press them all in from the OUTSIDE of the arms, facing in. I had pressed mine all from the same side (from the rear, in my case, all pointing forward). They are all replaced now and solid as a rock, no clunk. Glad to catch that in a test drive before reaching max lateral loading of the chassis mid-corner at an autocross!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=141639&d=1611971580

I have also been working on seats and harnesses. Believe it or not, this has been one of the hardest parts of my build. Placement, alignment, getting the 6-point harnesses to work with the Kirkeys, sliders for the drivers seat, height with my helmet on, centered to the steering wheel, seat back braces, seat heaters, added side foam (I'm as small as a jockey), and more.... it's been quite the debacle. Getting to a point where they'll work now I hope. Welded some brackets to the bottom of the chassis for the sub straps to bolt into, behind the seat as intended by all racing sanctions.

I also got the last of the exhaust components I spoke about in the previous update, the laser cut flanges. I only needed two, but ended up getting 8 total; 6 plasma cut from stainless steel, and 2 laser cut from mild steel. Once the body is on my chassis, I will fab the custom pipes and hopefully quiet it down some.... many racing organizations have strict noise limits.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=141643&d=1611971636

Now, I just need to find time to keep working on it! I'm schooling for Mechanical Engineering on the side, and these courses are not easy... I spend more hours sitting at the computer than I get in the garage. Not an excuse, just a factor. I bought HP Tuners MPVI2 and am sort of learning to tune on the side, with help of course... but that's a whole lot of time I don't have right now, so considering calling in some professional help to jump start the process. Lots of other little details over the past few months, but this covers the highlights.

[Snowman]

...Forgestar just released a new wheel profile for the F14 which I will be going with. I was already expecting to be on the extreme end of their available offset on the SDC (Super Deep Concave) wheels, but they have now released a profile called UDC (Ultra Deep Concave) that is available in negative offsets....finally! I will still wait until I put the body on my car to measure for exact fitment. Should be ordering them sometime this Spring though.

Super cool they added another profile! I know I want Foregestar wheels, I really like the CF5. I was going to copy your wheel stud setup and run spacers like you've described, but now I need to rethink that and stare at the F14s more to see if that's the route I want to pursue. I really like the idea of not running spacers, but I do like the look of the CF5 better. Decisions, decisions...

Question: When you drilled your hubs for the ARP wheel studs did you also have to drill out the rears?

[Logan]

I really like the idea of not running spacers, but I do like the look of the CF5 better. Decisions, decisions...

Question: When you drilled your hubs for the ARP wheel studs did you also have to drill out the rears?

I also really like the CF5. I ran that face-style on my Mustang for the past 3 years and absolutely loved them. Classic 5-spoke look, simple yet elegant, easy to clean... On the other hand I also like the look of the F14s, but it pretty much came down to available sizes that made that decision for me. SDC profile and 12" to 13" widths available in the F14, previously with as low as +6 offset, but now with UDC profile they go as low as -50 offset which is nice. I would not hesitate to use a spacer with CF5s or SDC-profile F14s if needed.

As for the hubs, remember the rear hubs (if you go with IRS) are already M14x1.5 studs as they are S550 Mustang spec. FFR would have you replace the beefy M14 rear studs to match their 1/2" studs in the SN95 front hubs... but I prefer to keep the larger of the two. Especially since it's standard issue on many (most) performance cars today. Better clamp load, higher yield strength, handles frequent torque cycles better, etc. To achieve this, you only need to ream out the front SN95 hubs to roughly the size of the rear hubs holes. There's science behind knurl diameter, material displacement, and so on. But long story short, I have done the science and have confirmed results. Buy a 0.612" diameter reamer from McMaster Carr, and within 5 minutes at the drill press you're ready to press in a 0.625" knurl-diameter M14-stud of any length you desire. The reamer is $50, and has little other use besides this, but very much worth it to do it right. Cuts the hub material like butter. Do NOT take a regular twist drill to your hubs!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=141766&d=1612113522

[Snowman]

I also really like the CF5. I ran that face-style on my Mustang for the past 3 years and absolutely loved them. Classic 5-spoke look, simple yet elegant, easy to clean... On the other hand I also like the look of the F14s, but it pretty much came down to available sizes that made that decision for me. SDC profile and 12" to 13" widths available in the F14, previously with as low as +6 offset, but now with UDC profile they go as low as -50 offset which is nice. I would not hesitate to use a spacer with CF5s or SDC-profile F14s if needed.

As for the hubs, remember the rear hubs (if you go with IRS) are already M14x1.5 studs as they are S550 Mustang spec. FFR would have you replace the beefy M14 rear studs to match their 1/2" studs in the SN95 front hubs... but I prefer to keep the larger of the two. Especially since it's standard issue on many (most) performance cars today. Better clamp load, higher yield strength, handles frequent torque cycles better, etc. To achieve this, you only need to ream out the front SN95 hubs to roughly the size of the rear hubs holes. There's science behind knurl diameter, material displacement, and so on. But long story short, I have done the science and have confirmed results. Buy a 0.612" diameter reamer from McMaster Carr, and within 5 minutes at the drill press you're ready to press in a 0.625" knurl-diameter M14-stud of any length you desire. The reamer is $50, and has little other use besides this, but very much worth it to do it right. Cuts the hub material like butter. Do NOT take a regular twist drill to your hubs!

Thanks for the heads up on the reamer and confirming only the front hubs would need to be reamed out! ARP actually recommends a 39/64 drill bit for their longer S550 wheel studs. The reamer seems like it would be easier to keep the holes centered up.

Still haven't made up my mind yet, I like the sounds of keeping things simple without using spacers on the new F14 profile, but I prefer the look of the CF5. They both look great honestly so i really don't think there is a wrong decision, lol. Ultimately I think I'll let the price of either path guide me. Those ARP studs are NOT cheap! I guess I need to ask Forgestar for quotes and see where that takes me. Plenty of time to get that figured out.

[Logan]

ARP actually recommends a 39/64 drill bit for their longer S550 wheel studs. The reamer seems like it would be easier to keep the holes centered up.

39/64” would leave just over 2 thousandths more material in the holes than the 0.612” reamer I used. Either of those sizes will work just fine, as there is a small allowable range for spline press-fitments. I prefer a reamer to a twist drill because it leaves a perfectly round hole with parallel sides, perpendicular to faces, etc. Machinists use reamers to clean up and perfect the rough hole made by a twist drill. I’m sure you could find a 39/64” reamer too actually.

I agree you can’t go wrong with either the CF5 or the F14. Looks like the UDC profile is about $280 more per set of four ($70 per wheel) compared to the SDC profile, for a given size. UDC is only available in 19” diameter, while F14 SDC and CF5 are both available in 18” if that influences your decision at all?

The ARP 100-7733 studs are about $60 per pack of 5 (There are cheaper options for extended studs, such as Dorman, but not the same strength as ARP). You would only need extended studs if you planned to use a slip-on spacer between 0-1” thick. If you need more than 1” of spacer, you’d be better off using standard length studs and a bolt-on spacer. For track or racing use, a slip-on spacer is preferred to a bolt-on. However, a wheel with the proper offset which requires no spacer is naturally the best method if possible.

[Shakey]

39/64” would leave just over 2 thousandths more material in the holes than the 0.612” reamer I used. Either of those sizes will work just fine, as there is a small allowable range for spline press-fitments. I prefer a reamer to a twist drill because it leaves a perfectly round hole with parallel sides, perpendicular to faces, etc. Machinists use reamers to clean up and perfect the rough hole made by a twist drill. I’m sure you could find a 39/64” reamer too actually.

I agree you can’t go wrong with either the CF5 or the F14. Looks like the UDC profile is about $280 more per set of four ($70 per wheel) compared to the SDC profile, for a given size. UDC is only available in 19” diameter, while F14 SDC and CF5 are both available in 18” if that influences your decision at all?

The ARP 100-7733 studs are about $60 per pack of 5 (There are cheaper options for extended studs, such as Dorman, but not the same strength as ARP). You would only need extended studs if you planned to use a slip-on spacer between 0-1” thick. If you need more than 1” of spacer, you’d be better off using standard length studs and a bolt-on spacer. For track or racing use, a slip-on spacer is preferred to a bolt-on. However, a wheel with the proper offset which requires no spacer is naturally the best method if possible.

Any idea if the Forgestar F14 UDC in a 19in would fit? I'd guess a 325/30r19 tire. I agree it would be great to get a F14 on there with a 315+ width tire and no wheel spacer.

V/R

Shakey

[Logan]

Any idea if the Forgestar F14 UDC in a 19in would fit? I'd guess a 325/30r19 tire. I agree it would be great to get a F14 on there with a 315+ width tire and no wheel spacer.

V/R

Shakey

The wheel itself is just a 19” x 11” or 12” (however wide you choose). Between the SDC profile and UDC profile, you can now get the offset you want built into the wheel so no spacers are required. Even for FFRs where we need low or negative offsets, that’s where the UDC profile comes in.

It’s the tires that are critical for total fitment. Average 18” tire options are 25.5” diameter for 315/30, and 25.9” diameter for 335/30. Moving up to 19” wheels, tires from 315/30 to 325/30 to 345/30 are 26.5” to 27.2” in diameter. So a total of 0.6” to 1.3” taller in diameter, and half of that in radius. The first point of contact with large tires is the short angled square tube of the Coupe chassis behind the seats. Set the wheel offset such that the tire has good clearance to this tube and you should never have any problems. I still really wish they would offer the UDC wheel in 18” as I prefer the tire options there.

[Shakey]

The wheel itself is just a 19” x 11” or 12” (however wide you choose). Between the SDC profile and UDC profile, you can now get the offset you want built into the wheel so no spacers are required. Even for FFRs where we need low or negative offsets, that’s where the UDC profile comes in.

It’s the tires that are critical for total fitment. Average 18” tire options are 25.5” diameter for 315/30, and 25.9” diameter for 335/30. Moving up to 19” wheels, tires from 315/30 to 325/30 to 345/30 are 26.5” to 27.2” in diameter. So a total of 0.6” to 1.3” taller in diameter, and half of that in radius. The first point of contact with large tires is the short angled square tube of the Coupe chassis behind the seats. Set the wheel offset such that the tire has good clearance to this tube and you should never have any problems. I still really wish they would offer the UDC wheel in 18” as I prefer the tire options there.


Thanks for the info. That's good gouge on the angled square tube on the drivers side. I agree that a 325/30r19 is only 1/2 in or so larger than what FFR recommends for the coupe so it should be able to fit in there. I would like to see forgestar expand their lineup because I like a lot of their other designs too but the offsets are soo limiting. If I had my way, I would get a forgestar CF5V in a UDC 18x12 rim with a -25 offset. I guess I'll have to start writing letters to their president.

V/R

Shakey

[Bluemont]

@Logan -

I just ordered my Coupe-R a couple of weeks ago. I just pulled the trigger and ordered my engine and transmission (way early). But it looks like I was able to score a 3.73 torsen rear end with it which I'm excited about. My son is a mechanical engineering student in his junior year and while I'm not really an engineer (Technology career), I really enjoy this stuff. I'll be subscribing to this thread. It is like waiting for the next episode of a TV show. I'm looking forward to seeing how the wheel selection goes. I've been doing a bit of research on that (have my favorites picked out - unfortunately it doesn't look like I'm going to get away without spacers). I'm going to spend the next few months brushing up on my welding skills and working on my other car while I'm waiting for mine to arrive. Anyway, I wanted to drop in on this thread and say I really appreciate the write up that you and so many others on these forums here have done. I'll be shamelessly learning and hoping to remember some of the great advice from these.

[James Morse]

So is the type R for racing only or are you planning to drive on the street with it?

[Logan]

@Bluemont - Congrats on joining the FFR family, and the exclusive -R club! Hopefully you’ve done your research on registering the R-model for street use in your state (sometimes the chassis tubes in the windshield can be an issue). From another thread I see you chose Coyote + T56, and 3.73 IRS. Look forward to following your build. And thanks for subscribing and commenting on my thread. I’ll send you a PM on wheels.

@James Morse - the Coupe-R comes with a serial number and MSO like any other chassis from FFR, but unless you intend to use it on track regularly, there’s many reasons the Street chassis is more preferable. For the Coupe, it’s hard enough to climb in and out of it without the extra door cage of the -R chassis. And as mentioned above, there may be some legal issues from the visibility of having steel tubes in the front windshield area. The street chassis is already extremely stiff, and if you still wanted more you could add basically any of the extra gussets yourself without having to go for the full -R version. Even the Street Coupe chassis has mounts at the rear for the wing...if that’s the consideration. All that said, yes I plan to register mine and drive it on the street, as well as trailer it to tracks with multiple sets of tires. Be careful though, compromise is everywhere... AC doesn’t fit in the -R chassis without a bunch of effort and modding the evaporator, which is just one example.

[Logan]

I bought a barely used 20ft car trailer. I lucked out and saved the wait time and got a good deal, since supply is low and prices are high at the trailer dealers. Immediately after getting it home, I chopped the left fender off. Welded up a removable attachment system, so I can now haul low vehicles and still open their doors while parked on the trailer. More trailer mods planned, such as longer ramps, tail jacks, rock guard/tire rack/toolbox combo, extra lighting, etc.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=148540&d=1622071065

Fabricated custom exhaust. I was basically forced to do something different than the FFR twin-sidepipes that come with the Coupe for two reasons: they're too loud for sound restrictions at certain tracks/events, and they are restrictive on high RPM flow (sucks because I love the look of the twin pipes). My solution was to fabricate a custom elbow with a 4-bolt flange to match the square-ish FFR/GP Headers on one leg, and a 4" V-band on the other leg, in as tight of radius as possible. Then, using multiple interchangeable sidepipes each with their own V-band flange welded on at the inlet, I could quickly swap mufflers of varying loudness onto the elbow which remain bolted to the car. Let me be clear...this is not a simple fabrication job. The amount of angles required to get the alignment just right on the elbow are pretty intense. Also each elbow is custom, they are not mirror images of one another. The elbows are 4" OD 1D bend radius in 304 stainless. The flanges were CNC plasma cut from 3/8" thick 304 stainless, and SS 4” interlocking V-bands. I drew the flange in SolidWorks, and radially slotted the holes a few mm to have some adjustment in the height of the sidepipes, which does work but beware that due to the negative angle at the header outlet this causes the sidepipe to also move in-out relative to the body as it moves up-down. Ultimately I think they're going to work fine, but I may be tweaking them or building a second set once the body is finished and painted. Also, I use stainless wire in a MIG welder, but I REALLY wish I had a TIG for things like this.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=148541&d=1622071079

My 4” OD side pipes each have 36" stainless augers inside, and sound decent. Quieter than FFR twin-pipes, but still too loud for autocross. I will either make a second set with reverse-flow baffles, or fill the last 12” of my current ones with fiberglass or coarse stainless steel wire to meet the <96dB requirement.
As soon as the new exhaust was finished, we loaded the car on the trailer for the first time for a test haul. Drove it up the 5ft ramps no problem (for now…once the splitter is on I'm going to need reeeeally long ramps), and then figured out straps. For the rear, I put the hooks directly into the holes just above the rear differential. This will be too high and hard to reach once the body is on, so I think I'll put some tie down mounts in my lower airjack brace. For the front I used axle straps around the lowest 1.5" frame tube just behind the swaybar. Again, this will be nearly impossible to reach once the body is on. Maybe I’ll start strapping the tires instead of the chassis. Towed the car about 20 miles to an empty parking lot. Unloaded the car there and drove it around to put some more mileage on the Tilton clutch before dyno day. They wanted 100 street miles on it for optimal break-in, but since I’m not registered yet I did about 35 miles of stop and go over the past few months, which I figure was close enough to 100 miles of city commuting. Loaded up and went home. The trailering process is very easy with the tube chassis.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=148542&d=1622071089

Three days later I loaded up again and hit the road for Nashville to get it dyno tuned, with two friends and my fiancé. I couldn’t get my ideal choice of shops, but our local autocross site recently opened from being on CV19 lockdown, and I wanted to be ready for the Test-n-Tune on 6/12/21, so a time crunch forced the decision. Local options for tuners who are familiar with the Coyote (especially Gen3), plus tuning on an actual dyno with HP Tuners and not the week-long email back and forth with Lund and their locked devices/files, are few and far between. That’s me on the far right repping the FFR shirt. Everyone loved the car too.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=148543&d=1622071099

Dyno experience was pretty good. Spent all day there, did idle tuning, part throttle tuning, and of course WOT. I filled the tank with ¾ tank of fresh 93 octane on the way up, and after completing the tune for premium, they poured in about 6 gallons of E85. For best results we should have drained the 93 out before putting ethanol in, but the mixture was enough for them to tune the flex fuel tables anyway. Per the tuner, it was reading about 40% ethanol content (instead of 85). Since I had installed billet steel oil pump gears and crank sprocket, we were able to raise the redline to a stratospheric 8,400rpm. The lack of big power on the top end is due to my MAF tube. I made a big mistake buying a 3.5” ID MAF adapter tube because that’s what fit the FFR provided silicone elbow and pod filter. I should have used the 4.75” ID one which would be a huge improvement in flow. Enlarging the intake and getting a full tank of pure E85 would have resulted in 480+ rwhp. As it stands, 457hp and 421 tq is the result. Dyno sheet got cut off in the printer, but this shows the graph up to about 8k. I think I can make this work for now.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=148544&d=1622071108

My Ram 1500 4x4 Crew Cab gets about 18mpg empty, and got about 12mpg when towing through the rolling hills of Tennessee at 80mph. On the return trip, it looked like we had about an hour of daylight left so stopped by Erik Treves’ place and let me tell you…he has his hands full! Projects abound. The F9 is coming along nicely, and that V12 is a thundering beast. Shared my progress on the Coupe-R, and finally made it back home just after dark. Weighed the car as it sat and it was 2,496lbs with a full tank of fuel. Rear half of body weighs 75lbs, front half 79lbs. Glass, carpet, Dynamat, lights, wiring harness, aluminum, etc. all still have to go in. Looks like I’m not going to make my goal of sub 2,800lbs… hopefully under 3k at least. A bit disappointed, but attribute a good chunk to the –R frame being ~80lbs heavier than the –S frame, and my airjacks probably added more than I think since the mounts are all 3/16” steel and beefy. Guess I’ll just have to drive faster to make up for it all! Lol

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=148545&d=1622071117

[TheMole]

Looking good Logan!

[Mitchelle]

Great purchase you have here!
I am very excited about the progress of this project. I am no fan of the wheel because it is quite common. The pattern reminds me of the KMC wheels (https://4wheelonline.com/KMC-Wheels.298383) Duece model.

[Logan]

In the autocross world, there are "Test-n-Tune" events, which are small autocross courses combined with skidpads, designed to allow people to test their vehicles (and all the changes they made over the winter) before the season of autocross points events begins.

My first time really driving the car was at the TnT event on 6/12/21. Unlike my puttering-around side street miles to break in the clutch, this was the first time hammering on the car. About 70-80% of normal race pace. Hard acceleration, steering, and braking. With a completely new build, I had no idea what to expect. Initial impressions were understeer. Increased negative camber in front, and drove again. Still understeer, so I disconnected the front swaybar. Next run I thought I fixed the understeer issue, but couldn't be sure because it had just started to rain. Loaded up the trailer and wrote down my minimal findings.

Next event was Autocross Points #1 (of 8 total) on 6/20/21. I had replaced the front 750lb springs with 600lb springs, and verified the alignment. -2 camber all around, -6.5 caster, 0" toe front, 1/16" toe-in rear, thrust angle good. Weather cooperated this time, sunny and 91 degrees. Got a total of 6 runs an a roughly 60 second course. First thing I noticed was lift off oversteer. This unfortunately makes a car very hard to drive quickly. Approaching a corner with steady throttle/speed, as soon as I lift off the throttle and initiate turn-in, the rear end steps out and does not stay behind the car. Occurred whether or not the brakes were used. Several small changes made throughout the day, and each of those changes made a marginal improvement, but ultimately ended the day still experiencing oversteer. Small changes were: decreased tire pressure finally settling on 22psi, move brake bias 6 turns towards the front, increased rear toe to 1/4" toe-in (extreme but was looking for a temporary major change), and lowering front ride height from 5.25" to 4.25". I left the event planning to make more changes before the next one. Jim S. at FFR suggested having about 150lb split between front and rear spring rates. I plan to put the 750lb back in front, and put the 600lb in rear, and also reconnect the front swaybar starting with the softest setting.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=150352&d=1625430502

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=150353&d=1625430509

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=150354&d=1625430516

LCS 2021: My first time attending the London Cobra Show! Have always watched it from afar, but never went until this year. Did not take my Coupe because it's just a go-kart, but there was a MK4 Roadster there as a rolling chassis not even driveable, so I probably could have taken mine. Oh well, maybe next year I'll be more prepared. Had a blast meeting the people behind the names I've known via the forums for years. Lots of representation by FFR, but also Shell Valley, Hurricane, Superformance, ERA, etc. The charity rides were fun to see, indoor electric go-karting (which may be my newest hobby, super fun!), and the food and speakers at the gala made a great Saturday evening. The raffle car was drawn, went to a Dublin, OH local who was not present at time of drawing. Overall the event raised $130,000+ towards CF, and brings the total nearer to $2M to date... crazy! If you have never been to LCS, put it on your calendar for next year!

[65 Cobra Dude]

Car is looking great Logan. Good to meet you and Ashley ar the LCS. Hope to see you guys soon!

Henry

[Logan]

I haven't run any events since my last post, unfortunately. However, I have made some changes to the car. More suspension analysis resulted in changing from my previously tested spring rate setup of 600/400 straight to 850/500 (skipping the 750/600 I was planning in my last post). I reconnected the front swaybar, in hole 2 of 4 (4 being firmest). I also finally installed the rear swaybar, and connected it in hole 1, which is the softest (4 being firmest). I need to remove some of the rear toe-in now, because that was a trackside change between runs at the last event to attempt to tame the oversteer (that didn't work, by the way). I should probably also set the ride height and check corner weights if I can before Saturday. I really need my own set of scales... "Dear Santa....

As some of you Gen3 Coupe builders have discovered, the rear tires are prone to rubbing on two short square tubes behind the seats, on the rear of the cockpit. Primarily the angled tube will be touched first, if the tire is large enough or the suspension is compressed enough. Even a smaller tire (275-295) can rub the angled bar if the suspension is compressed enough (easy to do if using the "Race" height option of the chassis). The second bar is horizontal, just above the angled bar, and it too can be hit by the tire if running large tires, low ride height, or enough compression in the suspension happens. Solutions include:

1. Smaller tires
2. Higher ride height
3. Less aggressive driving

Since none of those are options for me, I chose to notch the angled tube. It's the major offender here. I don't know if the upper tube will be an issue, but I'll watch for it. Since the strength of this notched tube is now majorly decreased, I will reinforce this triangulated zone by adding a tube or channel/angle to the cockpit side. Gained at least 0.5" in this area.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=151880&d=1628526001

I registered for an autocross at Barber Motorsports Park in Leeds, Alabama (Birmingham area) for this coming Saturday 8/14/21. It's not my home region, but it's only 1.5 hour drive, and I want to use it as a personal test and tune event before my next home region event the following weekend (8/21/21 Points Event #3 of 8). Much of the testing I need could be done on a skidpad, basically steady state driving in a 200ft diameter circle accelerating until you lose traction at either end. That would tell me if I'm still oversteering or if I've transitioned to understeer yet. It's funny, but as many big parking lots are out there, very few of them are useful for things like this. Either always busy, have cars/islands/light poles in the way, or are otherwise unusable. So I'll just keep registering for autocross events as I can.

I'm starting to think about the part of this build I've been dreading the most. The body...and bodywork...and paint. I installed the rear body shell, and will be working on fitting it as I have time. I need to get the nose on soon too, because they really need to be fitted with one another. I have painted a vehicle before, a 1989 Ford F250 in Olive Drab Green, and it turned out fine, but it's not my calling. I don't have much equipment or space for doing it, even if I really knew what I was doing. I have considered investing and building a booth and getting a decent gun, but I'd rather not if I can help it. The upside to all this in my particular case is that I do not want a Concours show-quality paint job. I want it to look decent, and be shiny, but I don't mind if it's below the average "Outta this world" level you often see on these FFR cars, with paint so deep you could swim in it.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=151914&d=1628561565

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=151913&d=1628561565

I've been working on my car trailer as I get time also. Building a large enclosed box on the front to hold a full set of wheels/tires, stack of Milwaukee Packout with tools and parts, fuel jugs, folding canopy, winch, chairs, scooter, tire sprayer, etc. Basically everything I need to take for an autocross or light track day. If I plan to do a weekend or bigger race event, I can add a cooler, grill, tent, bathroom kit, etc. in the pickup. The trailer will stay packed most of the time, so it just becomes as simple as hitch it up, load the car, and hit the road. Still fabricating this thing, but here is a progress shot to give you an idea of the layout.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=151915&d=1628561565

[Bluemont]

Or you could go full on Mad Max and just skip the body��. Bodywork isn't my thing either. I'll be paying someone to paint mine for me when I get to that point.

[bspaulsen]

Worst case, in full racecar fashion, you could wrap the car in something semi gloss, though the body panel size means you'll have a few seams. Easy to replace the wrap once you pass your tolerance for rock chips and melted r-compound rubber bits.

[Logan]

Or you could go full on Mad Max and just skip the body��. Bodywork isn't my thing either. I'll be paying someone to paint mine for me when I get to that point.

I've thought about skipping the body, but that would put an end to my 200mph goal pretty quick!



Worst case, in full racecar fashion, you could wrap the car in something semi gloss, though the body panel size means you'll have a few seams. Easy to replace the wrap once you pass your tolerance for rock chips and melted r-compound rubber bits.

I have also considered wrapping. There are some wrapped cars around the Huntsville area that look really good, but the price is like 75% of a real paint job, and at that point I think I'd rather have it painted. Maybe I should race it for a while in gel coat first, because by the time I get some battle scars on it I'll be ready to rattle can the car myself and call it a day. Lol (kidding...mostly)

[Sgt.Gator]

Are you going to dry sump it?

Edit: Disregard, I found your post #21 in Doug's Coupe-R Build Thread. I hope going wet sump works for you.
I think you will regret it though. Yes they are expensive, but not as expensive as a new Coyote will be.

Have you read John George's Thread on installing a dry sump? https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?21032-Coyote-Dry-Sump-oiling-system

There are choices out there: Dailey Engineering, Armstrong Race Engineering, and the one you mentioned, Aviaid.
The Armstrong (A.R.E) is not on his website but it's in his physical catalog, part 1316.

I've spent lots of time talking with John@Aviaid, I have two cars with his pumps. And I just ordered a Spintric from Gary@ARE. Both of those guys are happy to spend as much time as needed to figure out a solution that works for you.

The Dailey:

https://www.daileyengineering.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Ford-Coyote-658-pan-5-stage-with-air-separator.jpg

[Logan]

Sgt. Gator - Current plan is most likely to add an Accusump. Dry sump would absolutely be better, but not in the cards right now.

I encourage other builders to plan for the dry sump from the get go, it would be much easier to incorporate early on. The Dailey Engineering kit is a work of art. Aviaid looks to be very good too. Hadn't heard of the ARE setup before.

[Logan]

If I'm going to bump some fellow builders' threads asking for updates, I figured I better update my own too!

Regrettably, there has not been much progress in the form of adding parts to my car. Work, home life, building/modifying my trailer, you know how it goes. However, some (limited) progress has been made to the handling dynamics. I have been autocrossing the car for the latter half of this season in go-kart form, first with no body as shown above and recently with the rear body in place. My rule was, if it wasn't raining, I was running the Daytona at every event our local club held. The problem was that it rained for the first half of the events! Regardless, I have tinkered with spring rates, swaybar settings, alignment, brake bias, ride height, tire pressure, gear choice, having and not having passengers, etc.... and learned some things.

1. A car with extreme oversteer equals so much frustration that I didn't even want to drive the car anymore
2. It takes completely removing the rear swaybar, and fully stiffening the front to even begin reducing the oversteer
3. I still have not reached steady-state understeer... I need a stiffer front swaybar!
4. The FFR/Miata swaybars suck to adjust. The endlinks are too short. I'm about to abandon them and go custom
5. I have big Wilwood rotors and calipers, but no stopping power. Fought the bias for a while, with little success
6. The borrowed 300TW summer tires I've been running are holding back my chassis tuning, fresh 200TW rubber coming soon
7. New tires means new wheels. I ordered a set of custom bespoke SDC Forgestar F14s on Cyber Monday:
a. Front 18x11+30 with 12mm spacer (+18 effectively), and 275/35R18 RT660
b. Rear 18x12+6 with 32mm spacer (-26 effectively), and 315/30R18 RT660

At the last autox event, I finally had a setup with decent handling (but still awful brakes). This small win was incredibly motivating and made me want to actually drive the car again. I'm currently using Wilwood BP-10 pads, and I wouldn't even use these as coffee coasters... they're terrible. I'm going to try EBC Blue Stuff next and if they aren't enough, I'll go with Carbotech or similar. I'm just trying to avoid Hawk simply because their brake dust is super corrosive, and I don't need to accelerate the rusting process of my entire suspension, nor do I wish to destroy my wheels or eat through rotors like candy. I hope the Blue Stuff works as well as I've been told by a national champion autocrosser. I wish I knew what the car was SUPPOSED to feel like. I've never driven a properly setup Cobra or Daytona Coupe so I have no reference point or idea of what it should feel like.

Here's a video of the last event if you want to see what a no-grip, no-brakes, slight-oversteer-tendency Daytona looks like on a sealed asphalt autocross course:

https://youtu.be/cjlQjmCppB8

The legendary PRI tradeshow is next week at the Indianapolis Convention Center and Lucas Oil Stadium. I'll be there checking out new products and getting ideas on how to further slow my build down for the sake of cool mods I don't really need. Anyone else going to be there?

[Namrups]

It may not drive the way you want it to but it sure sounds good!

[Rsnake]

Good morning Logan,
I am going to respond to a few of your comments and can hopefully help. Dave Tabor would also be a great resource on the forum as he auto crosses and tracks his coupe a lot.
A car with extreme oversteer equals so much frustration that I didn't even want to drive the car anymore
I had the same feelings after building my roadster, a handful to say the least and not happy at all.
2. It takes completely removing the rear swaybar, and fully stiffening the front to even begin reducing the oversteer
I have had a roadster and a coupe from FF and realized the rear sway bar needs to be removed asap and Dave will agree after his issue with a wall at Laguna Seca after he attached his sway bar.
3. I still have not reached steady-state understeer... I need a stiffer front swaybar!
Remove rear bar and see what happens
4. The FFR/Miata swaybars suck to adjust. The endlinks are too short. I'm about to abandon them and go custom
Agree but I have not done it yet.
5. I have big Wilwood rotors and calipers, but no stopping power. Fought the bias for a while, with little success
I have the 14 inch wilwoods from Levy Racing which I believe you do as well. The pads included with the calipers need some heat. I ride the brakes going to starting line and they work great
6. The borrowed 300TW summer tires I've been running are holding back my chassis tuning, fresh 200TW rubber coming soon
I am running 200 TW Rival S and love the tries, stick like glue.
7. New tires means new wheels. I ordered a set of custom bespoke SDC Forgestar F14s on Cyber Monday:
Also running forgestar F14's with custom backspacing from Levy Racing, no spacers needed.
a. Front 18x11+30 with 12mm spacer (+18 effectively), and 275/35R18 RT660
b. Rear 18x12+6 with 32mm spacer (-26 effectively), and 315/30R18 RT660

Once you get it sorted out you will love the car. My roadster took many auto cross days to get it balanced and driving
the way I wanted. Between removing the rear sway bar and lowering the rear ride height it became a pleasure to drive. I
learned a lot with that car and it has made tuning the chassis on the coupe a quicker process.
I do have an auto cross run on my youtube channel which I think you subscribe to. Car did very well for it's first time out, middle upper of the pack.

[Rsnake]

Logan,

What are your alignment specs by the way? I had to run -2 degrees camber in the front and -.7 in the rear for good balance on the roadster.
Duplicated that on the coupe. Just tossing out ideas as I feel your pain.

[GT77]

Logan,

Out of curiosity, what is the piston area on the Wilwood calipers? And running the stock 3/4" MC's? --Thomas

[Logan]

Rsnake,
Thanks for the input. I follow Dave Tabor on Instagram, and here on the forum (and the other forum). You know him better than I, but it appears he focuses more on HPDE/track events with only a few autocross events. It would be nice to compare his car setup to mine, even though ultimately our ideal setups may end up quite different simply due to use case.

3. My rear swarbar is already disconnected. The only way I can further soften the rear at this point is to use lighter springs, which I have on the shelf, but I don't want to change the transient response of the car because the springs seem to be pretty good in transitions (such as slaloms). My rear shocks are also already in the softest rebound setting (FFR single adjustable Koni Reds for now).

5. I have tried dragging the brakes from grid to the start line, and it adds heat, but did nothing to improve the bite whatsoever... from turn 1 all the way to the finish gate, the brakes suck.

7. I sent you a PM asking about your wheel offsets, but maybe you haven't seen that yet. Please share your wheel specs via PM or here. Width and offset. Sounds like you still had rear tire rub with the BFG Rival 335/30R18 even after notching the frame tube like I did. Plans to further increase clearance?

I know there's a crazy fast setup lurking inside my car, and I'm bound and determined to work it out by this time next year. I just went and watched your autox vid in your car. Looks more composed than mine when I first took it out as a go-kart, but I notice lots of body roll in the slalom leading up to the finish. What are your spring rates, and is your front swaybar set to full stiff? (hole 3 out of 4, because the 4th hole is inaccessible due to poor endlink design). My alignment specs are -2° front and -1.5° rear, 7° caster, and 1/8" toe-in front, 3/16" toe-in rear. Might be a bit much for these 300TW tires, but should be a good starting point for next year on fresh RT660s. I plan to have the car laser aligned before next season anyway, for peace of mind and validation.



GT77,
Funny you should mention master cylinder bore to caliper piston area ratios. I built the car initially with the supplied 3/4" masters on both front and rear brake circuits. After 5 autocross events, I changed the front out for a 5/8". This increased the line pressure, at the expense of longer pedal travel. I also tried to reset the balance bar assembly, and make sure I didn't have preload on the MC pushrods. The first event out after the change ended with a locked RF caliper, due to air still being in the crossover line between the front wheels. (school of hard knocks anyone?) After that event, I corrected the crossover line by routing it lower, and re-bleeding the brakes (still one of my least favorite jobs. I am considering buying a pressure-bleed tool). The next event was better. No brake issues, but still poor brake performance. No bite, and no stopping power, despite me standing on the pedal.

Front calipers: Wilwood FNSL6R 4.86 square inches
Rear calipers: Wilwood FNSL66R 4.04 square inches

Front pads: Wilwood BP-10 current, EBC Blue Stuff up next
Rear pads: Wilwood BP-10 current and will remain while testing EBC front pads (have plenty/too much rear brake anyway)
Pedal ratio: 6.25:1

[Rsnake]

Logan,

I am only running 500lb front and 400lb rear springs and I agree that the body roll on the slalom was more then I would like, but I have seen some really fast Cars on the auto cross which rolled a lot. Sway bar set on hole 3. So I don't plan on changing anything until I get more events under my belt. I also have the red Konis but set 1 click from full soft. Gordon at Levy racing said to go full firm but it's too much for street for me. Not sure about your brakes but I used to run hawk hp+ on a mustang and those pads are amazing, I highly recommend them. I think you are running the same calipers as I am and they make hp+ for those. My alignment specs are close but less toe in front and rear. 1/16 front 1/32 rear.
Your car will be crazy fast once you figure it out. Release the beast ��

[Rsnake]

I put my wheel specs on the comments page on my YouTube channel.

[lewma]

I put my wheel specs on the comments page on my YouTube channel.

Can you post a link to your youtube channel ?

[Rsnake]

Cobra Daytona build on YouTube.

[Logan]

Can you post a link to your youtube channel ?

His channel is called "Cobra Daytona Build".... here is the link (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3iR3j-ZjOTiCK_4Bgw_jtA). His wheels are 18x10+0 front and 18x12+6 rear.

[lewma]

Cobra Daytona build on YouTube.

Thanks for taking the time to produce those videos. I spent a couple hours last night watching them. Great to see how others tackle and solve issues throughout the build.

Keep them coming!

mark

[Rsnake]

Mark,
It's been fun making the videos and I hoped they help someone in the build process.
Building one of the factory five cars is such a rewarding experience and I hope a lot of people get
the opportunity to build one. Keep pushing forward on yours as its a different beast from the roadster.

[Rsnake]

Logan,
I recently swapped out the red FF supplied konis for some QA1 double adjustable from Levy Racing.
Nice being able to have a decent ride on the street to really firming it up for the track and auto cross. And you can adjust them in minutes.
You could also play with the front shocks being firmer than rear and tune out some of the oversteer, but I haven't gotten that far.

[rhk118]

Logan,
I recently swapped out the red FF supplied konis for some QA1 double adjustable from Levy Racing.
Nice being able to have a decent ride on the street to really firming it up for the track and auto cross. And you can adjust them in minutes.
You could also play with the front shocks being firmer than rear and tune out some of the oversteer, but I haven't gotten that far.


Hijacking but How are the QA1's rsnake? Been slowly going through your videos...loving it, thanks for doing all of that....guess I just want to get to the shocks spoiler early :D

[Rsnake]

Rhk118,
I love them so far. Run them fairly soft for a nice street ride and within about 3 minutes they are as stiff as I want them to be for track and auto cross use. Gordon at Levy racing can set you up and even give you some baseline settings.
I also upgraded the springs as the Factory Five supplied ones are not very good. The supplied Konis single adjustable are nice but changing the settings is a serious pain as you need to take them off the car and pull them apart, not practical. I had the double adjustable on my roadster and they are harder to adjust than the QA1's. Should have went qa1s from the start.

[Logan]

Spring 2022 update: I did six autocrosses in 2021, and struggled with chassis balance all year. Mostly a lack of rear grip (oversteer). I approached the problem from multiple angles, one of which was to improve the front swaybar setup. The FFR Miata bar is needlessly hard to adjust trackside, and not stiff enough anyway, so I ordered an array of components to build my own custom swaybar. The center piece is a 1.25” OD, 48-spline hollow bar. They are available in four wall thicknesses (rates). I wanted to install in the stock location, but even the 7/8” Miata bar was rubbing against the rubber coupler of my lower radiator hose, so no room for the larger bar without changing my radiator and hose setup. So I looked at alternatives:


Through the radiator tunnel. Arms would be too long, with bad angles/geometry.
Through the square chassis tube above the shock. Would be clever packaging, but too close to axle centerline, arms would be too short. Also weight would be up high.
On top of the chassis in the engine bay. Weight would be up high, not ideal. Also interferes with my coolant tank, and general access to things below it would be worse. Would allow long endlinks though, and be super easy to adjust by simply opening the hood.
Behind the front axle, on top of the lower main framerails, between the battery and front of the engine. This is the location I chose. The weight is as low and as far back as possible, closer to COG for less polar moment of inertia. I fabricated mounts in 3/16” steel, and welded them to the chassis. Pillow blocks bolt to these mounts and hold the bar.


https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163672&d=1646882821

The splined arms that attach to the swaybar would be easiest if they could be straight/flat, but to keep endlink angles low that would require the bar to be longer which limits steering angle. Instead, I went with the shortest bar I could for maximum tire clearance, and put offset bends in each arm to keep the endlinks vertical. The arms have 6 holes machined on 1” centers for a large range of adjustability, the hole closest to the bend has been spot faced so the nut and bushing torque flat to the arm and not on a curve.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163673&d=1646882821

Speaking of endlinks, I wanted them to be as long as possible to minimize operating angles through suspension travel. The FFR endlinks were literally a male and female heim joint cut down and screwed together, just 2.25” center to center, and they would go to extreme angles or even bind under some circumstances. The endlinks I came up with ended up at 4.25” center to center, not as long as I’d like but much better. The high-angle bushings in the heim joints further increases the angle allowance before bind too. The upper endlink attaches to one of two holes I drilled in the lower control arm, on the inner plate of the lower shock mount. After swaybar mounting was complete, I cut form-fitting holes in the aluminum panels to go around the newly protruding components.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163674&d=1646882821

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163675&d=1646882821

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163676&d=1646882821

So why did I go through all this effort? According to FFR (and confirmed by my calculations to be within a few %), the Miata bar rates are thus: 180, 210, 250, 300 lbs/in. My new custom swaybar has six rates, approximately thus: 300, 350, 420, 510, 630, and 780 lbs/in. If I need to increase or decrease stiffness beyond my current range, I can simply swap the splined bar for one with a different wall thickness and keep the arms and endlinks the same. Swapping bars takes about 10 minutes. I made a spreadsheet comparing the bar data for those nerdy folks like me.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163677&d=1646882905

Was it worth it? Does it work? Yes and yes! I waited until I tested the upgrade before making this post. I took the car to a February Test & Tune event, and with the new front swaybar at full stiff I was able to throw the car into a corner and it understeered. Never been so excited to take out a cone in turn 1…LOL. So now with enough roll stiffness (went from too little to too much, so I have bracketed the target), I started backing off the stiffness incrementally until it was balanced. Don’t misinterpret my goals, I don’t WANT the car to understeer, but nor do I want it to be an oversteering nightmare. Unfortunately it was a chilly day, on ill-suited tires, my brakes still suck, and I don’t have the confidence in the Daytona the way I do in other cars like Mustangs or Corvettes. Still, the new swaybar is a success.

[Logan]

I made a few other changes over the off-season in addition to the swaybar. I swapped the Koni Red single-adjustable shocks for QA1 double-adjustables, lowered spring rates again, narrowed the brake and clutch pedals for better ergonomics, and ordered new tires…although I didn’t get them mounted in time for the February Test & Tune.

The QA1 shocks were sort of an impulse buy, because I needed something short-term that could be adjusted trackside, but I’m not yet ready to spec custom shocks. Since the QA1s are mass produced, I took them to the local racing suspension shop and put them on the shock dyno. Based on the results, we matched them in sets, and put the closest pair in front, and the second closest pair in rear. Even though these are brand new, they can be noticeably different than one another. He recommended baseline settings based on the weight of my car and intended use, which is purely autocross performance. I finished the Test & Tune event within 2 clicks of his recommended settings… which is an impressive testament to his expertise in this realm (he never even looked at my car).

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163678&d=1646882905

If you haven’t seen the Daytona Wheel and Tire Repository thread, check it out HERE (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?41600-The-Daytona-Wheel-and-Tire-Repository). I compiled a great deal of research, validated my own measurements, and ordered wheels last fall. I would have preferred Ultra Deep Concave profile for no rear spacer and deeper dish, but UDC is only available in 19”. Gearing and tire selection pushed me to 18”. I will run spacers in front by choice, and rear by necessity. The specs are in post #52.

Running in CAM-S class, the SCCA rulebook requires 200TW minimum, so I ordered Falken RT660s. The only other tire I considered was the Yokohama A052, but they’re higher cost and half the lifespan, so the decision to go Falken was easy. The RT660 is like the spiritual successor to the Bridgestone RE71R which I loved racing on.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163679&d=1646882905

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163680&d=1646882905

I cut one row of holes off the brake and clutch pedal pads, to provide more room to maneuver and reduce the chance of pressing more than one pedal at a time. Lastly the final change before my next event was installing EBC Bluestuff pads in the front calipers, and bedding them onto freshly sanded rotors...because my brakes still don't have any bite. I used 100-grit sandpaper on a random orbital to remove any transfer layer from the Wilwood pads, then drove the car around back roads to bed the new EBC pads. Initial thoughts is they're better, but it's not the night and day change I was hoping for.. The only thing left to do before the next event is to lower the spring rates further to 550/400 since the FSB is so much stiffer, set ride height, and bolt up the new wheels and tires. For reference, the spring rates used for the TnT were 650/450.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163681&d=1646882905

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163682&d=1646882944

The next event I'll be driving the car at is March 6th. Yes that date has already passed as you read this post, but I'm catching this thread up so bear with me.

Spoiler alert: the 3/6 event was VERY good... actually the best ever. Full review coming soon. :)

[Ltngdrvr]

You know, if you ever see a pic of the under side of a superformance Daytona, its front bar looks very similar to what you've built, it's a behind the axle splined bar with adjustable arms.

[Jim1855]

Logan,
Per your comments on the BP-10 pads, yup, pretty much worthless, not sure why they are packaged in the systems. I had them and switched to BP-20s, much better, dirty but not terrible. Never tried the BP-30s.
I like your sway bar solution; I've looked at the same basic concept but don't have your level of knowledge on the engineering and calculations.
Jim

[Logan]

You know, if you ever see a pic of the under side of a superformance Daytona, its front bar looks very similar to what you've built, it's a behind the axle splined bar with adjustable arms.

I have never seen a Superformance Daytona in person, so I had to Google search until I found some images. It looks like they do have a splined bar, albeit with some differences:

1. Rubber bushings instead of pillow blocks
2. Bushings mounted several inches inboard of the ends
3. Significantly longer yet thinner arms
4. One hole per arm, so single rate only (not adjustable)
5. Greater offset in the arms themselves (appears to be 6-8" of offset)
6. Mounted in front of the axle

Gotta say I really like the modularity of the spline bar setup in general. Can swap individual components out as needed, mix and match to get exactly what you're looking for.

Picture of a Superformance Daytona front swaybar:
163724

[Ltngdrvr]

I have never seen a Superformance Daytona in person, so I had to Google search until I found some images. It looks like they do have a splined bar, albeit with some differences:

1. Rubber bushings instead of pillow blocks
2. Bushings mounted several inches inboard of the ends
3. Significantly longer yet thinner arms
4. One hole per arm, so single rate only (not adjustable)
5. Greater offset in the arms themselves (appears to be 6-8" of offset)
6. Mounted in front of the axle

Gotta say I really like the modularity of the spline bar setup in general. Can swap individual components out as needed, mix and match to get exactly what you're looking for.

Picture of a Superformance Daytona front swaybar:
163724

Well, the one I was looking at was setup differently than that.
And, superformance early cars are different than the later ones.
And, I only stated it was similar.

[Logan]

Well, the one I was looking at was setup differently than that.
And, superformance early cars are different than the later ones.
And, I only stated it was similar.

That they are, good eye!

[cgundermann]

Thanks for taking the time to produce those videos. I spent a couple hours last night watching them. Great to see how others tackle and solve issues throughout the build.

Keep them coming!

mark

Lots of great information on his YouTube Daytona build thread Mark. I keep watching various clips getting prepped for my build! Really keeps me motivated!

Thanks Logan for taking the time to post your chassis tuning frustrations and how you are overcoming them. Very helpful for those of us following after you.

Chris

[Logan]

A couple weeks after the February Test & Tune I talked about above, but before our local autocross season officially kicks off this coming weekend, I had a chance to run the Daytona as a perk for being an instructor at our Performance Driving School. We had nearly 80 students this year in our annual 3-day PDS event, teaching performance driving in classroom as well as driving drills in the students own cars. This culminates the final day in a mock-autocross, which is timed and operated like normal but without trophies or points to be won. Instructors bring their cars Sunday to give students demonstration rides. I of course took the Daytona and although it’s only half-bodied, and very raw (no doors, hood, or windshield…stuff rattling, pebbles thrown all over from the tires, etc), I had to laugh because there was a line of students desperate to go for a ride in it.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163683&d=1646882944

I took 7 runs, then let a fellow instructor (a friend who has been involved with my build over the past two years) take an additional 5 runs in the car. While those 12 students all had a blast, it was I who left with the biggest grin of the day. Partly because I truly enjoy teaching and watching those lightbulb moments when they apply a new skill, but also because this was the first time I have driven my car on fresh tires and it FINALLY HANDLES LIKE A CAR. Night and day improvement, instantly proving how even reasonably large 285/325 summer tires (300TW) cannot hold a candle to new rubber. My first run I simply scrubbed off the mold release. Runs 2-4 I lowered tire pressures incrementally, finally settling at 25 psi cold. My final 3 runs were spent getting seat time in the car. Not only has the general speed improved (meaning I can drive the course faster), but perhaps more importantly the dynamic handling improved too. Suddenly the chassis is more balanced front to rear, the steering response is much quicker, the brakes work better, oversteer is easier to catch and manage….

The EBC Bluestuff NDX brake pads, combined with new tires, improved the braking by roughly ~40%. Noticeably better, but still not great. Work continues to solve the brake issue. I need more bite and more modulation. Still looking at stepping up coefficient of friction on the pad scale. Unfortunately I can’t just throw the raciest pads available at it because I need cold performance for street and autocross, where I cannot pre-heat the brakes in order for them to work properly. Currently looking at Carbotech AX6 or Wilwood Polymatrix A pads. Dust, noise, and pad/rotor life are all secondary concerns. Performance is first priority.

Lowering the spring rates helped load transfer too. I was on 650/450 at the Test & Tune, and dropped to 550/400 for PDS. Letting the body roll more helps load the tires more gradually instead of shocking them, so it grips instead of sliding upon quick steering inputs. I don’t want to go too low however, or I’ll be a bobblehead in the cockpit and the transient response will suffer (slower slaloms). The compression setting on the QA1 shocks will play an important role in tuning to the spring rates once I finally decide on them. Speaking of shocks, my codriver added 3 clicks of rebound on the rears and a half step stiffer on the front swaybar to suit the new grip levels. Since he drove the car last, I haven’t raced on that config yet, so this Saturday I’ll be starting from there. Not making any chassis changes before then, except new brake pads if I get them in time.

Here’s the video from the PDS (in which I can spot all sorts of mistakes and opportunities to save more time). For reference, we had about 30 instructors who were seasoned drivers, and even though there was no official scoring, my time was good enough for 6th raw and 9th pax. This may not seem like a big deal, but all last year I was a bottom feeder in the results. The car was so frustrating to drive I wanted to give up, but thankfully my stubbornness told me to keep driving anyway. Those efforts to balance the chassis on old tires last year was not in vain, as once the new tires went on it was immediately very close to where it needed to be. To me this was a huge step forward. Now I want to keep building!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-aRN34pcA0

[Rsnake]

Congratulations Logan! Sounds like you are on your way to an amazing car.
I just switched brake pads to the Hawk HP+ and they can lock up the tires with much better modulation than the wilwood pads.
Highly recommend them. Great videos by the way.

[David Hodgkins]

"That's the fastest car I've ever been in!"

Awesome.

:)

[TommyF]

just ran my car at Cota last week with the wilwood bp-30 pads, i am running a larger caliper/rotor combo but we had no braking issues or lack thereof.. after first session of monitoring brake pressure through the Racepak IQ3 and Vantage software we were able to consistenly heavy brake with out lock up.

[Matt Ries]

Hey Logan, Just spent some very enjoyable time reading your build thread! We need an update of the build and more of the story on how your and Ashley's Autocross and Track day's are progressing! Please don't abandon the build thread it is very good so far! I know you and Ashley have had an eventful year, still though I want to encourage you to continue the blog. Mary and I are still at it, but at a reduced event level. We have only done 1 autox event and 1 track event this year so I know how life can be. Hopefully we'll see more of the Daytona build!

[PNWTim]

I also really like the CF5. I ran that face-style on my Mustang for the past 3 years and absolutely loved them. Classic 5-spoke look, simple yet elegant, easy to clean... On the other hand I also like the look of the F14s, but it pretty much came down to available sizes that made that decision for me. SDC profile and 12" to 13" widths available in the F14, previously with as low as +6 offset, but now with UDC profile they go as low as -50 offset which is nice. I would not hesitate to use a spacer with CF5s or SDC-profile F14s if needed.

As for the hubs, remember the rear hubs (if you go with IRS) are already M14x1.5 studs as they are S550 Mustang spec. FFR would have you replace the beefy M14 rear studs to match their 1/2" studs in the SN95 front hubs... but I prefer to keep the larger of the two. Especially since it's standard issue on many (most) performance cars today. Better clamp load, higher yield strength, handles frequent torque cycles better, etc. To achieve this, you only need to ream out the front SN95 hubs to roughly the size of the rear hubs holes. There's science behind knurl diameter, material displacement, and so on. But long story short, I have done the science and have confirmed results. Buy a 0.612" diameter reamer from McMaster Carr, and within 5 minutes at the drill press you're ready to press in a 0.625" knurl-diameter M14-stud of any length you desire. The reamer is $50, and has little other use besides this, but very much worth it to do it right. Cuts the hub material like butter. Do NOT take a regular twist drill to your hubs!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=141766&d=1612113522

Hello - I know this post is a couple of years old but I am curious if you had any concern regarding the "meat" left on the hub on the outermost portion after they were reamed out? I am guessing not as this hasn't come up but thought I would ask. Like you, makes more sense to go larger rather than smaller as I will be running 19's as well. Great build thread!

[Logan]

Hello - I know this post is a couple of years old but I am curious if you had any concern regarding the "meat" left on the hub on the outermost portion after they were reamed out? I am guessing not as this hasn't come up but thought I would ask. Like you, makes more sense to go larger rather than smaller as I will be running 19's as well. Great build thread!

No concerns at all. The amount of material removed is minimal. Plus, in this specific assembly, you’re taking some steel out of the hub flange but adding the same amount of steel back with the larger knurled section of the stud. Using the reamer size I outlined is not a problem, and I have put dozens of cycles of 1.2G forces through them in real world testing. No fractures or failures observed.

[PNWTim]

Thanks for the quick reply. It makes sense, just wanted a real world double check.

[Erik W. Treves]

ok Logan..... I am taking Command of your thread....lol.... need to get this to graduation!


https://youtu.be/dbbjXkqBTdc

[Erik W. Treves]

Going to paint!


https://youtu.be/Q79ksKaFFQM

[Erik W. Treves]

Pretty good weekend - I hate doing the carpet though!!!


https://youtu.be/EpNioW0utB8

[Dmac800]

What seats and headlights are those?

[Erik W. Treves]

kirkey that come with the kit; headlights are just off of amazon - same size that is on a jeep.

https://www.amazon.com/Headlight-Headlamp-Offroad-Compatible-Wrangler/dp/B09B26R53H/ref=sr_1_6?crid=1QG98BZATIKP7&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.NsduxCM4je3bcX_tr9yHp8qUx6PMzWr0j tyXUrK2sG6kmM-fq496pyZt0YXYQLwKmmjChA7yp1IuZqPi7BlSSpWL5CMs5Myi3 7HUeUrx6OTH0ND8BH9PoUK_2iRlCowgLnD0_dqhEiUkOE9I65j Fpy-qmNv6wOTn6NRXRPQqTWnfz6AzqT-mj1mpztzTlNVCiixDsBLhf4_hdJNI0dN4QijukGZA3OsLntyJs go_A9iWvyMvpDBMTHb5n9RI6nnCdP0r90O1LB6zWMVvUdukT-qSz_NZFw_9uvgEuUa0yb0.6PtvwlRaOJspoUIP4mTEnunMNhHV DGsGXzmLdSl2lpI&dib_tag=se&keywords=round+LED+head+light&qid=1730466979&sprefix=round+led+head+light%2Caps%2C108&sr=8-6

[PNWTim]

Hi Erik - what flasher unit did you use? I tried to pause and zoom in but couldn't identify it. I am assuming it was controlling the delay commands for each signal you demonstrated?

[Jeff Kleiner]

Not Erik but I know that the car has a Signal Dynamics self canceling turn signal module:

https://www.signaldynamics.com/01005

I've used these on several cars that I've built and recommended them to many other builders. They've all worked great with no issues. On the cars that I've built I have used different activation methods; a momentary rocker switch (actually a power window up/down switch), momentary toggles and individual momentary pushbuttons like what Erik demonstrated in the Coupe.

Jeff

[PNWTim]

Not Erik but I know that the car has a Signal Dynamics self canceling turn signal module:

https://www.signaldynamics.com/01005

I've used these on several cars that I've built and recommended them to many other builders. They've all worked great with no issues. On the cars that I've built I have used different activation methods; a momentary rocker switch (actually a power window up/down switch), momentary toggles and individual momentary pushbuttons like what Erik demonstrated in the Coupe.

Jeff

Thanks Jeff, I will look into.

[Erik W. Treves]

Basically week 5 - just got the paint back a coupe weeks ago..... all done...


https://youtu.be/UFoitDCsCeY

[rhk118]

Car looks great, glad to see it!