MK4 Upper Control Arms - Be Very Aware Of Your Maintenance Practices - Failed!!!!

[CDXXVII]

Be very aware about your maintenance on you upper control arms. There are many threads out there addressing seized upper control arms. Many times this is due to neglect and lack of proper maintenance.

In My case, I am overly cautious about maintenance and I have a pretty comprehensive habit of checking everything.

My roadster only has approx. 6500 miles and I get it up on jack stands several times a year and do a pretty thorough inspection.

One thing that has always bothered me is how difficult it is to get grease into the upper control arms. I typically articulate the suspension and give the fittings several pumps of grease until I can visually see that grease is coming out both ends of the bushings. It has always been difficult but I can always get grease out both ends.

Today I was unable to get grease out of the drivers side front side of the bushing regardless of how much I tried. I finally removed the retaining nut and tried again but no grease would come out. I finally took everything apart and here is what I found.

Take notice that my upper control arms are designed to work metal to metal. Your only bearing surface is the grease that you get in between the surfaces. Clearly I was not able to get enough grease in there.

Does any one have the parts list for upgrading the upper control arms? I clearly do not want another set of the same.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=120432&d=1578770007

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=120433&d=1578770024

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=120435&d=1578770438

[Railroad]

Not good. I have seen threads on the heim joint upgrades, which is obviously a better design.
Seems like the round bushing should have a bronze sleeve.

[Logan]

Good thing your maintenance checks caught that!

My Coupe received July 2019 has upper control arms with plastic (delrin perhaps) collars inside this joint. Grooves machine into the plastic allow pathways for grease to travel through. If you can’t get heim joints/rod ends to replace your seized ones, call FFR and get a set of the newer upper control arms with the plastic collars inside.

[GWL]

Like me you've got an early Mk4 UCA that is cast. There have been reports just as yours in the past. FFR has changed the type they use making it easier to grease and a better bearing overall. It also uses larger diameter adjusting arms.

I am going to change mine out just for this reason. I'm also getting a better ball joint as these tend to have some slight binding. If no one else posts it, I will post a link to the ball joint later.

http://www.factoryfiveparts.com/15501-front-upper-control-arm/

George

[Railroad]

It seems mine has the plastic bushing. I guess, I get to put it back on the lift and check this out.

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Good post. Doing a number of upgrades & a general 12,000 mile service now. Will pay special attention to these units. Believe mine are the same type as yours.

[CDXXVII]

Here is a parts list I am looking at. I just need some help verifying. FYI Factory Five only has 1 setup in stock. This is why I'm just ordering parts. Great SPC sale prices at Sport Compact Warehouse

SPC 93400 - Shaft with 5" spacing x 2
SPC 92045 - 4" sleeves x 2 pairs ( Non powered steering )
SPC 92002 - Chrystler threaded 10 degree flat plate x 2
SPC 92021 - Pivot assembly x 2
Moog K772 - OEM style ball joint x2

[rich grsc]

Get the 10* plate, it centers the ball joint better at ride height. I help a friend install Howe race joints, I think they are nothing but a gimmick for anything but an all out track car. One you properly adjust them, they don't move that much easier than a factory ball joint. I would never spend the time or money to install them. How many miles you putting on your car? Remember the included joints are made to last almost the life time on a car over a 1000# heavier. They should be impossible to wear out on a 2300# car.

[CDXXVII]

Get the 10* plate, it centers the ball joint better at ride height. I help a friend install Howe race joints, I think they are nothing but a gimmick for anything but an all out track car. One you properly adjust them, they don't move that much easier than a factory ball joint. I would never spend the time or money to install them. How many miles you putting on your car? Remember the included joints are made to last almost the life time on a car over a 1000# heavier. They should be impossible to wear out on a 2300# car.

Yeah! Good Point. Going to stick with OEM style. Here is the new part list. I want to just put one order in.

SPC 93400 - Shaft with 5" spacing x 2
SPC 92045 - 4" sleeves x 2 pairs ( Non powered steering )
SPC 92002 - Chrystler threaded 10 degree flat plate x 2
SPC 92021 - Pivot assembly x 2
Moog K772 - OEM style ball joint x2

In case anyone is interested - Total cost in parts delivered $474.54 don't forget about allignment

[Cobragreg]

I have a MK3 and service it every spring before I drive it . Haven't had any problems . Is it just the later builds ..

[GWL]

In case anyone is interested - Total cost in parts delivered $474.54 don't forget about allignment

What is the code? I just can't get it to work.

Thanks, George

[CDXXVII]

What is the code? I just can't get it to work.

Thanks, George

I used HOLIDAY5

[CraigS]

I am not sure why you are ordering all those parts. You need the;
93400 shaft
92025 Delrin pivots
92005 pieces that are bolted to the pivots and thread into the sleeves
Your sleeves, BJs, and BJ plates, are fine.
Although I didn't do this it looks like the 92021 Race Kit might cover the 92025 and 92005.

[GWL]

I am not sure why you are ordering all those parts. You need the;


Craig,

I believe the newer UAC set up uses a larger diameter sleeve. They up sized from 5/8" to 3/4".

The failures seen were broken pieces that screwed into the sleeve at the end where the pivot is. Possibly the binding due to lack of lubrication caused the breakage. So the upgrade incorporates a better pivot bearing and larger swing arms.

Edit: It may be the bearing casting that broke, I'm going to do a search to see if I can find the old thread regarding this issue.

George

[CDXXVII]

I am not sure why you are ordering all those parts. You need the;
93400 shaft
92025 Delrin pivots
92005 pieces that are bolted to the pivots and thread into the sleeves
Your sleeves, BJs, and BJ plates, are fine.
Although I didn't do this it looks like the 92021 Race Kit might cover the 92025 and 92005.

Craig

I really tried to save some money and find some sleeves that convert 5/8" on one side to the 3/4" on the other but could not find any.

I also thought I could fine some pivot studs for the new pivots that can thread into the existing 5/8" sleeves but could not verify. I do think they have some available here.
SPC 92005 Pivot Stud (could not verify thread size and pitch)

The ball joints are cheap and I am pretty sure that getting mine off the old plates will be hell given what it took to get them on and also dealing with the lock tight.

The final deciding factor was that my kit included the 0 degree flat plate which is probably just fine but the 10 degree flat plate seems to be a better fit.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Craig,
George is correct; the generation of arms that Marcel (CDXVII) has are from an unknown supplier and are different than the current ones which are supplied by SPC. Earlier Mk2 cars also used SPC components---these failure prone "mystery vendor" upper arms were used on Mk3s and early Mk4s. I have these on my own car and they have always accepted grease however having seen (and replaced) ones that galled and/or seized like the ones in Marcel's photo I disassemble and check them annually. So far, so good.

Jeff

[GWL]

Found a couple of older threads regarding UCA failures:

Ball joint fitting breakage: https://www.ffcars.com/threads/front-upper-control-arm-failure.435129/#post-4033865

Pivot bushing breakage: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?14924-FFR-tubular-A-arm-Pivot-bushing-failure-warning&highlight=upper+control+arm+failure

George

[CraigS]

Sorry guys, I have never personally touched the ones w/ the 5/8 sleeves so didn't think of that problem. I do remember one FFR owner who said he called SPC, they knew exactly what was needed, and sold him UCAs as complete units at a better price than individual parts. This was maybe 7 yrs ago so not sure if that would still be true. I can ad my experience w/ the 92025 pivots though. I did that upgrade about 4 years ago and they have perfect grease channels in the bushing. It is really nice to see 6 little spots of grease coming out of each side when you squeeze the grease gun.

[CDXXVII]

Just spoke with SPC Tech this morning. The UCA’s that were included in my kit were not provided by them. Not sure where they came from.

The part list I ordered is correct according to SPC. FYI, you need to order 4 sleeves. It’s deceiving in that the photo shows the part number as a pair. They are sold individually.

This control arm pictured below is not an SPC Product

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=120435&d=1578770438

[CDXXVII]

Just a final note before I close out this thread. I'm calling this my final note just to keep from completely going on a huge rant that will get me nowhere.

This is just an FYI to others in my same situation. Before you go out and plunk down $500 in parts, know that this will not be a simple bolt in solution to a crappy situation. "at least not in my case" The new cross shafts are 12.25 inches wide as apposed to the 10.875 inches that are the originals. This puts the cross shaft into my brake lines and partly interferes with my F panels which is probably my fault. Of course I had to get fancy and use polished stainless tubing for my brake lines which are not easy to tweak and will need to be reworked. This to me just means that I get to go back to work on my build so I guess I could make it a positive if I try really hard.

On thing is for certain, I am very fortunate that I caught this failure in my garage performing regular maintenance. Just a short search and I found one that failed at a track event and another that failed on the freeway. I also found several that were fortunate and discovered the failures as I did. I have reached out to Factory Five and asked that they consider at the very least issuing a PSA regarding maintenance. My personal opinion is that these should have been recalled.

So much for not going on a rant.:cool:

Thanks for listening

[Raceral]

So I got my MK4 in fall of 2015... Wonder if it has good are bad parts

[CDXXVII]

So I got my MK4 in fall of 2015... Wonder if it has good are bad parts

You should be fine. Post a photo or look at my photos. The new design is clearly different in design. The bad ones have the 5/8” thread vs the 3/4” on the sleeves.

[Jeff Kleiner]

So I got my MK4 in fall of 2015... Wonder if it has good are bad parts

Yours will be the latest (better) version supplied by SPC Al.

Jeff

[daltmcintyre]

Well... this news sucks. But glad I saw it before I got any further. I assume the 3.75” SPC sleeves can be trimmed down similar to the 5/8” AFCO sleeves? I have PIN drive width with SAI mod.

[Avalanche325]

Here is what I do once a year as part of my annual "nut & bolt". It lets you check and clean if needed without messing up your alignment.

1. Loosen the two nuts on the upper arm that attach the link to the sleeve just a little.
2. Remove the front bolt.
3. Swivel the whole suspension back out of the way. You can use the steering wheel to help if needed.
4. Swivel the sleeve with your fingers. It should move very easy, with only the resistance of the grease.
5. If it doesn't swivel freely, or it feels gritty, take the nut off and clean it. Polish the shaft and sleeve if needed.
6. Put the bolt back in. I use a new grade 8 stover nut. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hfw-hp838024gc
7. Repeat for the rear one and then the other side.
8. Grease everything.

If you ever hear any squeaks from the front suspension, do this immediately. I had one that started squeaking a few years ago. It was starting to gall. I polished it with some fine sandpaper and it has been fine since.

[Dewey McBride]

Thanks for posting this CDXXVII. I have 7675 which is an early MK4. How can I tell if I have the bad UCA? I did develop a squeak last year and lubed up the control arms. Seemed to work but I don't know if there was any damage done.

[GWL]

Thanks for posting this CDXXVII. I have 7675 which is an early MK4. How can I tell if I have the bad UCA? I did develop a squeak last year and lubed up the control arms. Seemed to work but I don't know if there was any damage done.

Dewey,

Note in the first post of CDXXVII, he is holding a steel billet cut pivot that is silver in color and has a single tab to mount a double tab (one tab above and one below) control arm to it.

The newer set up is here at Factory Five site: http://www.factoryfiveparts.com/15501-front-upper-control-arm/

Note the FFR UCA pivot is gold colored with two tabs to attach to an arm that only has one tab.

I have seen brakes in the early silver pivot where the single tab has broken off close to the body of the pivot.

Now that being said, I just received my new set up, from Sport Compact Warehouse, to change out my older version. Must be a 'newer' version than FFR's newer because the pivot is machined out of a cast piece that has two tabs and is powder coated black. I am in the process of changing them now. The pivot bar, mounted to the chassis, is longer and has a longer bearing surface than the originals that I'm changing. I have to relocate my frame mounted brake line because of interference with the pivot arm. I may also have to take about a 1/4" of threads off one end of it. Still plenty of threads left to clear the retaining nut though. I'm taking pictures and will post later. The new unit is significantly larger and more robust than the early set up I have. A mess to fuss with but will bring piece of mind in the long run.

By the way, I've got #7197 the first Mk IV to leave FFR in March 2010. It's not the first # but I was the first to take delivery of a Mk IV. Actually, I picked it up. Note that FFR's number sequence is not just for the roadsters but others as well.

George

[CDXXVII]

Thanks for posting this CDXXVII. I have 7675 which is an early MK4. How can I tell if I have the bad UCA? I did develop a squeak last year and lubed up the control arms. Seemed to work but I don't know if there was any damage done.

Note: The photos below are ones I found on the forum but still represent the Upper Control Arms I am dealing with.

These are the new SPC Factory Five Mk4 Upper Control Arms

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=91621&d=1534658043

These are the old Factory Five Mk4 Upper Control Arms included with my complete kit

http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab15/CCRsAC/IMG_20170513_162900733_zpsuv6seuzv.jpg

Here is a side by side comparison


New Factory Five SPC control arms on the left and the upper control arms I have on the right.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=82717&d=1521340824