Honest question

[TheBish]

Hello everyone. I have been interested in Factory Five Roadster for about eight years. Looking over the build threads and seeing the camaraderie almost have me ready to pull the trigger. I have three questions:

Am I too old?
Resale value?
Will I complete the project in time to enjoy?

By background, I am 62, live in the Pacific Northwest, and am planning to retire in three years. I presently own a '65 Mustang GT Fastback that was taken to Concours Trailered condition. A few years back I purchased a 1971 Camaro Z28 that is presently completely disassembled with plans to restore that to a very nice driver condition. My daily driver is a 2005 Saleen Mustang S281SC. I am also building a small hydroplane boat. Mechanical aptitude is maybe a 6 on a 10 point scale. In short, I am really good a taking things a part but not so good at putting them back together.

My wife calls be Mr. 90% because I take on projects and never seem to get them done. I like to stay busy but get distracted and my work is fairly demanding. Maybe I should finish the Camaro and Hydroplane first?

I am also an accountant. I seriously recommend against this profession if you like cars. This boils down to I am cheap, overly practical, and analyze stuff to death. Yes, some of the stereotype is true. I went through the online "order a kit" and came up with about $26k. Add Blueprint engine, tires, paint and supplies and I figure you're at $55k cost. Average resale appears to be around $45k. Is the build experience worth $10k? Its not that I could not afford it, its just what birds say when the fly over me "cheap, cheap".

Thinking of attending a build school in 2019.

Thank you in advance for your input and all guidance is appreciated.

[GTBradley]

Desire to build is all you need. You can finish this car in under a year no problem. It comes down to personality I think, if you love to work with your hands, you will not have a problem completing it, other than obsessing over it like I did.

[initiator]

Hey Bish - welcome to the madness! 1) You're not too old. I'm not sure you're ever too old. Maybe if you're more than 50% disabled, hire a builder. 2) No comment - don't ever plan to sell mine. 3) Totally depends on your persistence and how custom you go. If you go complete kit (vs. basic) and keep the off-book options to a minimum (good luck with that!), you should be fine.

I have a similar 90% problem! If you find your progress is not what you want, consider giving The Traveling Builder a call. He can come out and work beside you for a while and give you a huge boost in progress.

Whereabouts in the PNW? We have quite a few in-process and completed cars around here.

[UnhipPopano]

Put yourself out several years. You are retired and had a good night sleep. How do you want to spend the day? Watch TV, go somewhere, visit someone, or do something? If you can not answer this question, then put the decision off for a couple of years. In the meantime, finish the two other projects.

[GoDadGo]

Welcome Aboard!

I'm a wrench swinging Dark Side Banker (SAD Officer) who counts every nickle so no this is not a smart financial decision, but you will have the time of your life if you do it.
Just figure out what projects you really want to do and which projects, if there are any, that you feel like you need to delay and/or ditch.

My Stupidity Can Be Seen Below:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8m-MdRZvaH45Y6h4orIm7w/videos

Also, check out the build threads of Edwardb because he's older than both of us and he is now building his 4th Factory Five.
His work and build thread documentation is the best of the best and his latest masterpiece just got painted this week.

Steve

I've got a new Hardwood L88 Hood (Last One They Produced) if you want a little more carb clearance you 1971 Camaro.

[NAZ]

I'm older than you and can still manager to build cars. But here's my honest assessment based on your input. Don't take the leap if you're already thinking about resale value. If you want a better value purchase a completed car, as you already have discovered that route will be less expensive. And if you have trouble staying on task to completion, all the more reason to buy rather than build. Start looking at the for sale ads and see what's out there that you might be interested in.

Here's NAZ's building cars by twos: Whatever you think it's going to cost you to build a car -- double it. However long you think it will take you to finish it -- double it. Whatever you think you can sell the unfinished kit you lost interest in -- divide that by two.

Choose wisely.

[GoDadGo]

Here's NAZ's building cars by twos: Whatever you think it's going to cost you to build a car -- double it. However long you think it will take you to finish it -- double it. Whatever you think you can sell the unfinished kit you lost interest in -- divide that by two.


NAZ's Math Is Spot On Correct!

[Papa]

I'm older than you and can still manager to build cars. But here's my honest assessment based on your input. Don't take the leap if you're already thinking about resale value. If you want a better value purchase a completed car, as you already have discovered that route will be less expensive. And if you have trouble staying on task to completion, all the more reason to buy rather than build. Start looking at the for sale ads and see what's out there that you might be interested in.

Here's NAZ's building cars by twos: Whatever you think it's going to cost you to build a car -- double it. However long you think it will take you to finish it -- double it. Whatever you think you can sell the unfinished kit you lost interest in -- divide that by two.

Choose wisely.


NAZ's Math Is Spot On Correct!

The satisfaction of building your dream car ... priceless!

It sounds to me from your intro that you have the skills and money to build one of these. The question that remains is whether you have the desire to build one. If you can answer that with an unconditional "yes", then I say go for it.

Dave

[GoDadGo]

Here's an idea:

Sell my brother the 1971 Camaro, so I can put it together, and then you've got the garage space to build your car.

Steve

[Boydster]

Building one of these as a first-timer with the purpose of reselling is a bad financial idea.

Building one of these as a first-timer with the purpose of planning, designing, building, modding, driving, showing and even racing it is AWESOME.

If your plan is to resell, buy a complete car or one thats almost done for cheap, finish or upgrade it some, drive it a bit then resell it.

[chmhasy]

Your love is where your heart is, If it is money then you will never finish the car or any other project!
All I can say is I had a blast building mine and I am having a blast driving it. A smile from ear to ear
I have meet great people while build it and had great memories with people building it I am now creating great memories driving it with people whom share in the same desire. priceless
I did not keep track of the money. I spent as needed for the love of building and driving
The point is Monies comes and goes, jobs comes and goes, but memories stays

[edwardb]

Also, check out the build threads of Edwardb because he's older than both of us and he is now building his 4th Factory Five.
His work and build thread documentation is the best of the best and his latest masterpiece just got painted this week.

Hey! Appreciate the shout out but the age comment? :( Oh wait, it's true...

My thoughts regarding your comments? Either finish or move out a couple of the projects you have. I see a lot of uncompleted builds, and many times the reason is people underestimate the time and/or effort required, plus life gets in the way. These things are a blast, and I highly recommend. But unless you're a professional builder, will probably take longer than you think. That's not a bad thing for me, because I love the build part. But for others, they're just trying to get the build out of the way and can lose momentum. Highly recommend the build school to see the process first hand and decide if it's for you. For some, buying one already done makes sense. Regarding resale value, pretty good chance you won't get your money out of a new build. Watching other sales is a way to track sell prices. But there is a huge variation in build quality, and for these especially since by definition they're owner built, that's a big deal. But no car hobby is going to make sense financially. You do it for other reasons.

[frankeeski]

Think I would look at something like this, build it with the parts included and throw body & paint at it. If you get to the 90% point and hit a roadblock, give Mark Dougherty a call and have him finish the last 10% for you.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?34198-Unfinished-Mk-3-1-Roadster-for-sale

[BEAR-AvHistory]

You will not most likely get any of your labor back out of it. If you use all new parts you should recover most of it if the job is well done. Age has nothing to do with it. Will be 78 in 3 weeks & my car is a daily driver with 12,000 miles on it that took me 13 months to build. Found I was able to work alone so scheduling help was no issue.

The key was not to worry when it will get done but to be consistent in using my time. Did no more than 2.5 hours a day & sometimes all day Saturday. Generally a couple of hours will let you look at the thing & see some progress.

Unless you live in Lower South Podunk you should be able to find some local FFR guys who can help you out if you get stuck or just need a hand. I have had a hand in a number of local builds along with many of the other guys in our lose group the Triangle Cobra Club.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118170&d=1574915583

Some of our group at the FORD VS Ferrari Movie. The red third car in is in gelcoat with none of the seams done yet IIRC was the first outing for the car, lots of encouragement & offers to help from the guys.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118169&d=1574914007

First section I did. Sort of feeds on itself as you see it taking shape it encourages you to do more. IMHO it's a pretty big deal the day you place the motor into the chassis & start it up, it's now alive.

[CTHiker52]

TheBish thanks for asking the question. Thanks to all who answered. Each one of you added some info and insight for me. I too just retired and had many of the same questions. I am vacillating between the 33 Hot Rod and the Daytona. I no longer question if I want to build, only question remaining is which one. The first project is to get the garage cleaned up and ready.

THANKS All

Big G

[NAZ]

Big G, great picks and such a hard choice -- I vote you build both.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Honest question...honest answers...here goes mine...

You're not too old. I'm 62 and most everybody here knows what I do. You're sitting on 2 major unfinished projects now and are a self admitted 90 percenter. I suggest that you finish or move the Camaro and boat first or you're very likely going to be looking at 3 unfinished projects for a long time. If you can't finish them or bring yourself to part with them I sure as heck wouldn't venture forth on another. As has already been mentioned regarding resale you'll most likely not get every dollar out that you have in it but that tide has been turning the last few years and the gap is closing up on quality builds. One thing for sure though---you'll only get pennies on the dollar...pennies...if you sell an unfinished one.

Best of luck,
Jeff

[JIMOCO]

I agree with the many comments on not taking on too much and focus on finishing what you have. In regards to the build experience and the $10 thousand, I looked at it this way. I was 60 when I built my kit. I had a great time building it and if I drive it 10 years and lose 10 to 15 thousand on the resale, it cost me between $1,000 and 1,500 a year for the pleasure of driving the car. I know friends that spend more than that every year on greens fees. They have lots of stories of their bad rounds of golf and I watch them come home disappointed they did not have a good day. On the other hand, I have never taken a ride in my roadster that I have not enjoyed. I think I am getting the best value for my investment and having a lot of fun.

[jrcuz]

My only comment is I'm 72 and very close to being on the road.
JR

[Al_C]

It all boils down to goals. If you are successful as an accountant, and it certainly sounds like you are, then you understand the power of goals and being able to achieve them. If you want to build and enjoy a roadster, you can!

I'm 67, it's taken me a while to get to where I am in the build, and my goals are still evolving. I will achieve the end result soon (the car is currently with Mr. Kleiner!)

For what it's worth, here are my recommendations:
1. Sell the Camaro to GoDad. He'll finish it.
2. Get rid of the boat. Hydroplanes seem like accidents waiting to happen.
3. Get the roadster and commit to a deadline. Even if that deadline is 5 years out.
4. Enjoy the ride. The whole ride - building and driving.

This is not necessarily a financial decision. It's way more emotional. It's also worth every penny. Happy Thanksgiving!

[GoDadGo]

For what it's worth, here are my recommendations:
1. Sell the Camaro to GoDad. He'll finish it.
2. Get rid of the boat. Hydroplanes seem like accidents waiting to happen.
3. Get the roadster and commit to a deadline. Even if that deadline is 5 years out.
4. Enjoy the ride. The whole ride - building and driving.


Take Al_C's advice but throw in the Baby-Hydro for Baby-GoDad since he's been pestering me to build one since I had an 8'0" 3-pointer when I was a kid.
He has wanted to build one for years so even though I sunk mine twice, I'd be A-Okay with him finishing yours depending on if a 25 Yamaha OBM will push it.

[bobm488]

I just turned 67 and am retired. I started my MK4 the first of August, I will putting the motor in this weekend. I work on it 5 days a week for an average of 4 hours a day. After I had my entire budget put together I added $2000 for Misc. which seems pretty close.
Like others have said, finish the other project first.

[GTBradley]

Here's NAZ's building cars by twos: Whatever you think it's going to cost you to build a car -- double it. However long you think it will take you to finish it -- double it. Whatever you think you can sell the unfinished kit you lost interest in -- divide that by two.

I feel like the oddity here. I agree with said math except for time to finish it. I told my wife and son two years and had to divide that by four. And that was with working mandatory overtime at work. But I had the blessings of my wife and a purpose built workspace with no other projects. Though, I did develop carpal tunnel and my lovely and supportive wife commented that she “now knows what it’s like to be widowed.”

Point is, support from those around you and giving yourself the ability to focus are key factors and that’s where I started from, everything else just fell into place. The reward is not monetary value, mine is priceless by the way, the reward is the thumbs up you get everywhere you go. When you’re driving your completed dream there are no problems or stress.:cool:

[Bob-STL]

TheBish,

The comments above by the various members are all true.

Most here know my story. My wife ultimately encouraged me to build the coupe.

Prior to the coupe, I refurbished a 1985 Dodge Ram as a self test. I did not order the coupe until the Ram was 95% done. I had limited skills, also.

I absolutely did NOT want a 90% done project with the coupe. It was licensed 4 years ago.(I was 66)

The camaraderie and world that opened was amazing.

The only decision I have now is whether to build a second car now that I am 70.

Bob

[rich grsc]

TheBish,

The comments above by the various members are all true.

Most here know my story. My wife ultimately encouraged me to build the coupe.

Prior to the coupe, I refurbished a 1985 Dodge Ram as a self test. I did not order the coupe until the Ram was 95% done. I had limited skills, also.

I absolutely did NOT want a 90% done project with the coupe. It was licensed 4 years ago.(I was 66)

The camaraderie and world that opened was amazing.

The only decision I have now is whether to build a second car now that I am 70.

Bob
NO Bob, no second coupe for you........... a 33 hot rod, or even better the 35 truck. You know the GCC will encourage either of those.:cool:

[Jacob McCrea]

"Is the build experience worth $10k?" Yes, I would say so. I would look at it as a fairly cheap investment in your skills, and one that may well pay for itself over time, rather than as a cost, if that helps you rationalize the economics of the decision. I'd finish the Camaro and the boat first, and start this in retirement, when you'll have adequate time to devote to it.

Over a decade I have seen a lot of these projects stall out, move in slow increments, etc., for a litany of personal and financial reasons. From what I've seen, a good formula for actually getting the project completed is 1) but the complete kit and don't fool around with refurbishing used parts; 2) don't get too carried away with modifications to the basic build; and 3) pay someone else to do the bodywork and paint unless you really have the shop space, skills, time, etc. to do the body. I've done everything wrong in that regard, which is why I'm going on 8 years of building.

[Avalanche325]

I agree with what the rest of the group is saying. You are obviously not too old to build it. Finish your other projects first. Projects that don't maintain momentum usually end up as failed projects.

If you just want to drive one, the cheapest way is to buy one ready to go. If you want the experience of a build, that usually costs more and your labor rate is $0 per hour. Resale is generally parts value plus or minus.

I have loved every aspect. Building including body and paint, the community on the forum, I have made a couple local Cobra owner friends, cruises and rallies with Cobra clubs, Autocross (hooked on that one), and track days. I'm not a car show guy, but do the occasional cruise-in. So there are lots of avenues after it is built.

[AC Bill]

My wife calls be Mr. 90% because I take on projects and never seem to get them done.

Are you sure she's not talking metaphorically? :p

Buy an already built one. Save money, and you can drive it immediately. Chances are very good you can sell it, close to what you paid for it, even 10 years from now.
Continue working on the Camaro.

[brewha]

Go to the build school and get a taste of the effort and experience. It’s well worth the money even if you don’t build a car.
When I’m went, half of the class was there just for fun...
Lots of information, and hands on building will give you an idea of the effort necessary to complete a car. They supply breakfast , snacks and lunch. At the end of the class you have several new friends and a third of the cost of the class to use for extra options from F5 if you buy. Roush is close by, and gives tours of their engine building. Good luck....

[TheBish]

Hi Initiator:
I'm in Redmond, just over the hill from Kirkland. I would love the chance to see your car and get to know you. PM me if willing.
Thanks!

[TheBish]

GoDadGo:
Space is not a problem, dedicated four car garage for the toys and separate 1,200 square foot shop. Dreaming of 3,600 square foot shop in retirement. Can't sell the '71. Had a '72 SS in college and love that body shape. Nice rounded fenders just like the Cobra. Once the Camaro is completed, I might sell the Saleen. Wife says one has to go before a new one. That doesn't count if its just a kit, right?
Steve (me as well).

[GoDadGo]

GoDadGo:
Space is not a problem, dedicated four car garage for the toys and separate 1,200 square foot shop. Dreaming of 3,600 square foot shop in retirement. Can't sell the '71. Had a '72 SS in college and love that body shape. Nice rounded fenders just like the Cobra. Once the Camaro is completed, I might sell the Saleen. Wife says one has to go before a new one. That doesn't count if its just a kit, right?
Steve (me as well).

He Who Dies With The Most Toys Wins!

.......My Recommendation Is To Keep Them All!

[TheBish]

Kevin:
Wasn't Ford vs Ferrari excellent? I'm not looking to recover labor. I ended up with 1,000 hours into my '65 plus $65k. I do not want to buy a completed car. I am looking for the build experience. The whole resale question was because I am an accountant. You all are convincing me cost is NOT why you do this.
Steve

[TheBish]

Big G:
I vote Daytona! Where are you located?
Steve

[TheBish]

Jimoco:
Or thousands of dollars of depreciation on a new car. I just bought a new truck, very expensive, but will probably be the last truck I ever buy.
Thanks, Steve

[initiator]

Hi Initiator:
I'm in Redmond, just over the hill from Kirkland. I would love the chance to see your car and get to know you. PM me if willing.
Thanks!

PM sent. I've had several prospective builders come through my garage. You're more than welcome.

[TheBish]

collector cars (3)
motorcycles (3)
daily cars (3)
boats (2)
trailer (1)
tractor (1)
Am I winning?

[TheBish]

To all:
Thank you so much for the advice. I have learned I'm not too old, the venture is worth the cost (and maybe a priceless experience) and that I should complete some of my open projects first. I will dedicate the next year to the Camaro and hydroplane. Plan to take the build school in 2020. Order kit close to retirement and be rearing to go. Anybody close to Redmond, WA, please reach out so I have friends lined up for engine install :).
Regards, Steve

[NAZ]

You got a good start on the toys -- I'm going to have to step up my game.

[CTHiker52]

Steve I am located in Salem CT. Today I am leaning towards the Daytona but as I get older and the knees and back hurt more, getting in and out of it may become a problem.

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Kevin:
Wasn't Ford vs Ferrari excellent? I'm not looking to recover labor. I ended up with 1,000 hours into my '65 plus $65k. I do not want to buy a completed car. I am looking for the build experience. The whole resale question was because I am an accountant. You all are convincing me cost is NOT why you do this.
Steve

Yeah, was unanimous thumbs up with the 20 guys we had at the show, great movie. If you get an chance watch "Shelby American" on Netflix, very good documentary. As for the money aspect once I decided I could afford it I just went ahead & built it. As paid receipts came in & I stuck them in a draw on my workbench. The draw is only opened to put a receipt in, have no idea what the car cost to build. Car is insured for $57,500

[TheBish]

as I get older and the knees and back hurt more, getting in and out of it may become a problem.

Right there with you, especially the day after tennis.

[Ducky2009]

I'm the same age as you and love my Roadster. I retired in 2016 and received my kit in Jan 2017 and go-karted 3 months later, completed in approx 9 months (excluding time for two surgeries :( ). If you're planning to sell right away, no, it's not a good investment ($$ wise). I enjoyed the build and drive mine several times a week. Was out today (mid 60s today). Not sure where you live... maybe a coupe if you're in a cooler winter weather area.

[TheBish]

Hi Ducky:
I live in the Seattle area. Congrats on the retirement. I am two to three years out. No plans for re-sale, in fact I have not sold any of my other cars. The '65 was purchased in '94 but not completed until 2010.118735118736118737

[edwardb]

... No plans for re-sale, in fact I have not sold any of my other cars. The '65 was purchased in '94 but not completed until 2010...

Right. Except you said "Resale value?" up front in your initial post. Then had a whole paragraph about cost, build versus buy, average resale, etc. So many of us have responded accordingly. I would venture to say nearly everyone goes into these projects with no intention to sell. But it happens. For lots of reasons. I've sold two. Neither of which I started with that even in my mind. But I also like to build. So that was a way to keep builds happening.

[RBachman]

collector cars (3)
motorcycles (3)
daily cars (3)
boats (2)
trailer (1)
tractor (1)
Am I winning?

If you enjoy having them and building them, it's always a win. And as for being an accountant and doing one of these, I'm a mechanical engineer and prior USAF officer. While I'm not counting every dollar, my attention to detail, re-thinking everything, overly concerned about fitments and component reliability/design......I'm my own worst enemy. The value isn't necessarily in what the cars costs so much as what they provide.

motorcycles (0) All gone!
daily cars (4)
boats (1) My big boats are gone! (YEA!!) Now I have a little aluminum jon-boat for fishing the salt water creeks. Love it more than the big live-aboard I've had.
trailer (2)
tractor (2)
Motorhome (1) 45', 600 HP Cummins
Collector Cars (1)
FFR Cars (1/2) But already thinking of another one after this one is done.

[JOE A]

I too, had reservations about starting a 65 Coupe project at almost 70 years old. It's now 98% complete (spent too much time in the paint shop), I am 74, still work full time and just beginning a new build. My theory is being busy is good. My wife keeps reminding me that she hears a lot more groaning and moaning coming from the garage. Have to admit that getting in and out is not easy. I will say that you must stay focused, so finish your incomplete projects first.118766

[lgordon]

In my experience after retirement is a great time to start a Factory Five build! Build your own car for the enjoyment of making a great car where you know every part because you put it in. Regarding customizing your build, it does add time but for me that was a big part of the fun. Read how others solved issues like having a full size glovebox and a heater/defroster, then digging in and doing it your own way is super satisfying!

I will be 72 later this week and have had a blast getting my car to where I shipped it off to Jeff Miller for final bodywork and painting last month. I expect to complete my car and get it road legal early next year. I’m looking forward to many miles on the road!

[TheBish]

lgordon:
I would love to see your car when you get it back. I had the pleasure of visiting JW in Kirkland over the weekend to view his build. Regards, Steve

[initiator]

In my experience after retirement is a great time to start a Factory Five build! Build your own car for the enjoyment of making a great car where you know every part because you put it in. Regarding customizing your build, it does add time but for me that was a big part of the fun. Read how others solved issues like having a full size glovebox and a heater/defroster, then digging in and doing it your own way is super satisfying!

I will be 72 later this week and have had a blast getting my car to where I shipped it off to Jeff Miller for final bodywork and painting last month. I expect to complete my car and get it road legal early next year. I’m looking forward to many miles on the road!

I'd love to see it, too. Make it a public event!

[acmikee]

I have an older MK1 with a soft top and wipers as well as a GTM. if you need to sit in one. im in Olympia by cabela's