View Full Version : Driveshaft Safety Loop?
Jdauble
11-24-2019, 11:28 PM
Thoughts and opinions on the need to add a driveshaft safety loop for a street driver Roadster? Is it a must have or a nice to have for a 10” driveshaft? If you added, any recommendations on what brand / style you used?
Thanks, Jeff
MSumners
11-24-2019, 11:37 PM
Used a Metco piece. Well made and simple bolt-on. For the price I never would consider driving without one and gives some peace of mind. Likely you will get differing opinions.
SSNK4US
11-25-2019, 12:29 AM
X2 Cheap insurance...,
Kurt
GoDadGo
11-25-2019, 08:43 AM
X2 Cheap insurance...,
Kurt
X3
I used the kit shown below as a starting point and it worked out well.
With a little cutting, bending and welding I was able to bolt it to the inner seat belt brackets.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/aaf-all69004/overview/
I'm also running a bell house blanket since there is No Blow Proof Option for my particular transmission.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/aaf-all69010?rrec=true
Big Daddy lost half of his right foot nearly 50 years ago before he changed Top Fuel Drag Racing forever.
https://youtu.be/rwXZjH3GTQc
Though not likely to happen to us, my favorite Drag Racing Man with the plan knows a thing or two about drive-line failures.
I've had two driveshafts explode -- can you guess what my recommendation is?
When it comes to safety: If there is ever a doubt -- there is no doubt.
Another vote for the Metco bolt on hoop.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=94617&d=1538592041
Think about where that drive shaft is in relation to your body.
cv2065
11-25-2019, 10:20 AM
I’ve got one too..
CFranks
11-25-2019, 10:45 AM
I put the metco on as well. Street driver now so maybe a little overkill insurance, but also protecting in case some day I autocross or do something stupid on the street.
There was a similar thread (link below) last year that I'm sure resulted in a massive surge in Metco's summer sales!
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?29064-Drive-shaft-safety-Loop-Recommendation
Avalanche325
11-25-2019, 10:50 AM
I have one also. Hopefully for all of us it will be wasted money. But, you have to have it before you need it.
Answering on do you need it for a driveshaft that is only 10 inched long....
A shorter shaft cannot handle as much torque as a longer shaft.
It is right next to your hip.
Probably not a pole vault risk like a long driveshaft.
GoDadGo
11-25-2019, 11:11 AM
I've had two driveshafts explode -- can you guess what my recommendation is?
That's Two More Than I Want To Experience!
OK, for those who are reading this and saying to themselves " I'm never going to race my car so a drive shaft loop is overkill". I was a teen when I experienced my first u-joint failure on a street car. A 1965 Mustang Fastback, 289 with 4-speed trans and the car was only a couple years old. The 271HP with a four-speed and at the time seemed like a lot of power in a small package but nothing like most here are building today. Setting at a stop light with no other cars around and the light turns green. I was Bob Glidden leaving the line -- revved the engine and dumped the clutch. Lucky I never made it through second gear before the front u-joint let go. It was instant carnage but could have been worse.
My second drive shaft failure was at >6000 RPM (that's drive shaft RPM not engine RPM) and the damage from that one was very impressive. Shrapnel through the floor, frame rails twisted and damaged. And it happens in a nano-second but takes seemingly forever to get stopped and all the time the drive shaft is still spinning and shredding itself and everything it touches. Oh, and that was also a street only vehicle.
Lucky I've never had a drive shaft explode in a race car -- yet. But then I also take precautions to mitigate the safety hazards now that I'm smarter.
GTBradley
11-25-2019, 12:16 PM
I'm guessing that FFR doesn't supply them with the kit because it's not common in there cars? Has any one ever had it happen in a Roadster? It would be nice to know how well the driveshaft safety loops are performing, or even what kind of damage was caused by a driveshaft failing without one.
I'm guessing that FFR doesn't supply them with the kit because it's not common in there cars? Has any one ever had it happen in a Roadster? It would be nice to know how well the driveshaft safety loops are performing, or even what kind of damage was caused by a driveshaft failing without one.
In another thread on this subject, someone posted a picture of a roadster's mangled trans tunnel following a failure. The damage included a large hole punched through the aluminum panel right at the rear corner of the passenger side of the cockpit, severed wire harness, severed battery cable, and severed e-bake cables.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118046&d=1574704337
GTBradley
11-25-2019, 01:04 PM
Looks like a safety loop would have done it's job there!
phileas_fogg
11-25-2019, 01:14 PM
When you install your drive shaft loop, check for interference with the parking brake cables. Make your check with the aluminum flooring in place, otherwise you'll have to re-route your re-routed parking brake cables. :p
John
https://live.staticflickr.com/4316/35455972514_61f621b178_4k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/W288mW)IMG_3530 (https://flic.kr/p/W288mW) by jhsitton (https://www.flickr.com/photos/91016165@N07/), on Flickr
Avalanche325
11-25-2019, 01:32 PM
I'm guessing that FFR doesn't supply them with the kit because it's not common in there cars? Has any one ever had it happen in a Roadster? It would be nice to know how well the driveshaft safety loops are performing, or even what kind of damage was caused by a driveshaft failing without one.
Remember that Factory Five does its kits so that the "regular guy" can afford one. They don't include a lot of extras that many of us put in, as that makes the price go up. Breaking driveshafts (really mostly U-joints and yokes) is not common in anything that sees street use. But, what is the first thing that most of us do in the planning stage? How do I get big power and how do I get good traction? Driveshaft twisting ability is the fist thing most guys put on their wish list.
I don't plan on actually needing seatbelts either. But I certainly have them installed. A loop is pretty cheap and the Metco one takes minutes to install.
SDhemmings
11-25-2019, 03:13 PM
Dang it you guys, stop it, now I had to go buy one myself! :cool:
Avalanche325
11-25-2019, 03:37 PM
Dang it you guys, stop it, now I had to go buy one myself! :cool:
Now for the next item..................Mwaaahahahaha
GTBradley
11-25-2019, 03:49 PM
I think I'll put that on my Black Friday watch list.
Jim1855
11-25-2019, 06:25 PM
I broke a U-Joint, don't remember if front or rear, in my '67 Vette 40 something years ago. No serious damage, wasn't going fast. But it makes you think.
Saw the results of a broken shaft in a Superformance. Beat the snot out of frame rails, nobody was hurt. Superformance driveshafts are a bit longer than FFRs.
With the help of a friend we built a round hoop for my IRS Challenge Car. It's a welded and bolted assembly that mounts on the rear tubes of the trans tunnel. All's removable. The hoop is 4.5" ID, .375" wall and about 2.5" long, split and welded much like riflescope rings. The basic theory is that if it can't swing far out of it's rotational axis it won't go real far.
I will continue to use a DS hoop and scattershield.
I got to figure out how to post photos. I am technology challenged or maybe it's just a patience issue.
Jim
Only time I ever had a u joint fail was on a 57 Chevy with a corvette 283. Oddly enough for me, at that age, I was driving really tame when the rear joint let go. Luckily it did't completely disconnect, or it could have been worse. Went with a Metco hoop, and never concerned myself with what it cost.
Bad Moose
11-25-2019, 08:29 PM
My driveshaft failed in my MKIII Roadster. It was not under any torque, nor do I have a cool story to go with it. I was crossing a road coming from a stop. I was not on it, just slowly taking off to cross the intersection. My 9 yr old son was in the passenger seat at the time. It went through the AL tunnel and just missed him at the hips, we got lucky. After replacing the e brake cables, driveshaft, repairing the broken, tabs straightening anything bent, and installing a hoop, all done and said close to $750 in parts and I did the work myself so no labor.
The driveshaft failed due to a poor decision by a shop that thought they knew how to handle AL and weld AL.
It's your decision but when a driveshaft is either next to you or under your arm when your driving, I would have one on period. Whatever the cost for the hoop is now is just cheap compared to any possible medical bills. Just my thoughts....
Moose, that's a great example -- in your case you were not applying gobs of torque that broke the drive shaft. OK, the root cause was a defective weld but it could have been damage, wear, misalignment, operating above critical speed, too much torque, or any number of things that led to a failure. The point is these things sometimes do fail catastrophically and when they do it can result in major damage and has the potential to cause injury. Adding a drive shaft safety loop should be a no brainer. It should also highlight why it's a very bad idea to run fuel and brake lines anywhere near a drive shaft but I see people building these FFR kit cars and running fuel and brake lines down the trans tunnel. One car is actually designed by FFR to do just that -- major oversight IMO. I'm preachin' to the choir here but others may follow along and read this thread and with so many here convinced that a drive shaft loop is a must have safety feature, perhaps they will also consider one on their build.
TMartinLVNV
11-26-2019, 12:34 AM
I have the driveshaft loop still in the box. From the picture of it installed, it seems to be the lowest point of the chassis. Does anyone have problems scraping it on speed bumps or driveways?
aspbite
11-26-2019, 05:18 AM
I have the driveshaft loop still in the box. From the picture of it installed, it seems to be the lowest point of the chassis. Does anyone have problems scraping it on speed bumps or driveways?
That was my 1st concern since these cars sit so low.
My 2nd concern was how out of place that loop looks, frankly, pretty darn ugly looking.
I understand that it's a pretty easy bolt on, and that's exactly what it looks like.
I went with Mike Fortes loop. very nice piece
118085
Jeff's First FFR
11-26-2019, 08:18 AM
Used a Metco piece. Well made and simple bolt-on. For the price I never would consider driving without one and gives some peace of mind. Likely you will get differing opinions.
OK, I sold. Please give me the link.
OK, I sold. Please give me the link.
Here is a link to the METCO part:
https://www.metcomotorsports.com/proddetail.asp?prod=MDL2500
I couldn't find the link to the hoop on Forte's site, but you can call him. (508) 875-0016
edwardb
11-26-2019, 08:25 AM
OK, I sold. Please give me the link.
Google is your friend: https://www.metcomotorsports.com/proddetail.asp?prod=MDL2500. They typically don't have them in stock. In the past have done limited runs based on a number of requests. But sure doesn't hurt to check and see if/when available. I used one on my #7750 build. Very nice piece and easy bolt-on.
JRL16
11-26-2019, 08:34 AM
This was one of my winter updates on my Mk4 last year. I used the Metco piece. Nice product. Hope it’s never needed.
That was my 1st concern since these cars sit so low.
My 2nd concern was how out of place that loop looks, frankly, pretty darn ugly looking.
I understand that it's a pretty easy bolt on, and that's exactly what it looks like.
I went with Mike Fortes loop. very nice piece
118085
I haven't seen one of Mike's hoops, but both are bolt-on parts. For Mike's, you'll not have anything hanging below the frame. The METCO part hangs about 3/4" below the 4" tube, but isn't a concern in my opinion. The METCO bolts on using existing holes and doesn't require you to disconnect the drive shaft. The Forte part requires you to drill and either tap or install threaded inserts into the 4" tubes (eight of them), and you'll need to disconnect and thread the drive shaft through the hoop. Both will serve the intended purpose.
BEAR-AvHistory
11-26-2019, 12:29 PM
Metco shaft safety loop. Don't leave home without it. Well done, easy install before or after the car is built.
Bad Moose
11-26-2019, 07:23 PM
Moose, that's a great example -- in your case you were not applying gobs of torque that broke the drive shaft. OK, the root cause was a defective weld but it could have been damage, wear, misalignment, operating above critical speed, too much torque, or any number of things that led to a failure. The point is these things sometimes do fail catastrophically and when they do it can result in major damage and has the potential to cause injury. Adding a drive shaft safety loop should be a no brainer. It should also highlight why it's a very bad idea to run fuel and brake lines anywhere near a drive shaft but I see people building these FFR kit cars and running fuel and brake lines down the trans tunnel. One car is actually designed by FFR to do just that -- major oversight IMO. I'm preachin' to the choir here but others may follow along and read this thread and with so many here convinced that a drive shaft loop is a must have safety feature, perhaps they will also consider one on their build.
Well stated.
Ducky2009
11-26-2019, 08:49 PM
Broke many a U joint in other cars. Absolute must. Also blew a clutch and it cut the aluminum bell housing in half. Luckily, didn't cut thru the floor. A steal bell housing is also a must for me.
Jdauble
11-26-2019, 09:16 PM
Thanks everyone for your help!
Jeff
https://www.dragzine.com/news/michigan-racer-escapes-with-his-life-after-driveline-failure/
This story was just pushed out to those of us that subscribe to Dragzine. A bit late for this thread but still I wanted to share as it does demonstrate how violent a driveshaft failure can be and highlights how these failures can instantly cause injury. NHRA requires driveshaft safety loops and other safety devices well beyond what you will normally find in any street car and still this incident caused a serious injury.
Aircontroller
12-02-2019, 04:25 PM
Hey Naz,
The accident occurred with a safety loop and it still had a catastrophic failure like that? Wow.....I cannot imagine this with no safety loop. That’s incredible.
https://www.dragzine.com/news/michigan-racer-escapes-with-his-life-after-driveline-failure/
This story was just pushed out to those of us that subscribe to Dragzine. A bit late for this thread but still I wanted to share as it does demonstrate how violent a driveshaft failure can be and highlights how these failures can instantly cause injury. NHRA requires driveshaft safety loops and other safety devices well beyond what you will normally find in any street car and still this incident caused a serious injury.
bobm488
12-02-2019, 05:36 PM
Test fitting the Forte Loop up today.
118404
rich grsc
12-02-2019, 05:44 PM
That looks like a pain in the a$$ to install. The Metco hoop takes longer to jack up the car than to install.
bobm488
12-02-2019, 07:50 PM
It is, you have to tap eight 5/16" holes into the 4" tubes. Plus a little pounding and jacking to get it fit up.