Optima battery? A request

[Jeff Kleiner]

If you're gonna' bring me a car with an Optima battery please install a set of remote terminals so it will be easier to jump start. Because it will need to be jump started :(

That is all,
Jeff

[i.e.427]

Bad day buddy?

[Jeff Kleiner]

Not really, it's just that the "Another dead Optima" thing is growing old. ;)

Jeff

[skidd]

I agree.. most overrated overpriced POS battery I've ever had the misfortune of paying for.
Even the "deep cycle" claim is a load of hogwash. Dang Successful Marketing Campaign!!

[Tuftster]

I know it's been discussed but what battery/batteries have you had good luck with?

[GoDadGo]

Words Of Wisdom From Mr. Scotty K!

https://youtu.be/hKo5iJ2rH7o

He Loves Optima Batteries Too!

[Avalanche325]

Scotty "loves" everything. As long as it is a pre 2010 manual transmission Toyota, he is good with it. (I enjoy his show)

[Jeff Kleiner]

I know it's been discussed but what battery/batteries have you had good luck with?

In my own roadster I run a plain ol' lead acid from Autozone (first one lasted 8 years and the current one is going on 6). I put the same in any ones I build. Three of the cars I've had in the shop for paint over the past year have had Optimas. All three have had to be jumped if they sit more than a week to 10 days. OK, not all 3; one of them would consistently be dead in 3 days). I had to jump one this morning for the second time in a week. I know some guys will tell us that they have used them with great success and I believe them but in my sample of 3...not so much.

Jeff

[65 Cobra Dude]

Optima’s used to be the best out there. Then they got sold off-shore! I use NAPA batteries and have had good luck with them. They have great warranties. Those that know me will be surprised!!!

Henry

[Avalanche325]

I have had good luck with mine, but you pretty much never know these days when a product starts getting manufactured on the cheap and / or gets sold to a different company. Optima is owned by Johnson controls, but I think that happened quite a while ago.

[mike223]

I've gone to the Value Power brand from Walmart in everything.

Rural King has a similar brand.


$49 - one year warranty - no prorate.

3-4 years so far - no problems in anything.


Johnson Controls is the sole supplier.

[WIS89]

Optima’s used to be the best out there. Then they got sold off-shore! I use NAPA batteries and have had good luck with them. They have great warranties. Those that know me will be surprised!!!

Henry

Henry-

You use NAPA, really? WOW, I never would have figured that your loyalty would lay there!! ;-o)

Good to hear they are a quality battery; it's where my last one came from, and my next one will as well.

Hope you are well!

Regards,

Steve

[Papa]

If you're gonna' bring me a car with an Optima battery please install a set of remote terminals so it will be easier to jump start. Because it will need to be jump started :(

That is all,
Jeff

Was it mine? :o

[Jetfuel]

Diehard..Duralast...Kirkland...Motorcraft...EverSt art...Interstate...Diehard and yes Optima are made by Johnson Controls here in the good USA.
Exide technology is the other American battery maker...
EverStart in all my cars..

Jet

[rich grsc]

Buy an Odyssey. I have a PC545, weighs 14#, 7x4x5.25". Never had an issue, and it's made right here in Missouri. :) Jeff didn't jump it.:p

Optima's are made in Mexico I think

[lance corsi]

My experience with Optima batteries has been a bad one. If you let one go flat, it will not come back. I’ve sworn off them. For my 818 I bought a Braille. It’s smaller than a garden tractor battery. I intend to make a dual-fit battery tray in case the Braille lets go while on a trip, I can just put in a garden tractor battery to make it home. I don’t like the extra weight of conventional batteries, so trying to keep things reasonably light.

[Jetfuel]

Optima's are made in Mexico I think

You are correct....Monterrey.....don't know what I was thinking

Jet...

[Jeff Kleiner]

Was it mine? :o

No, not today---different car. But your Optima also had to be jumped while it was here.


Buy an Odyssey. I have a PC545, weighs 14#, 7x4x5.25". Never had an issue, and it's made right here in Missouri. :) Jeff didn't jump it.:p



Correct, no jump starts required when your car was here. Thank you ;)

Jeff

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Did not check build location but Red Top bought from Amazon $147.50 & installed early in 2014 has never been recharged. Longest time between running was 3 weeks. Harness is set for radio/ECU keep alive so there is a slight draw all the time.

Battery is in the trunk so wanted a 'dry' battery.

[Al_C]

I have an Optima, and I installed the wires to connect to the charger. Have only had to charge it once, when it hadn't run in more than a month. You want me to bring the charger, too?

[Jeff Kleiner]

You want me to bring the charger, too?

Please do :)

Jeff

[KenWilkinson]

shocked I am. Long ago used them with good results. Checked reviews on Amazon, wow. For fun read the 1 star reviews.

[RBachman]

We have a number of engines and as such batteries here. For my tractors, RTV's, generators, jet skis, I use whatever the parts store has on sale and they never fail to give a year or two past their life...sometimes much longer. But we don't get terribly cold down here, so I don't know if that could have any affect on performance over time. For our cars, motorcoach, standby generators I like Lifeline batteries. The only batteries I've really ever had issues with are the factory one that came with my Jeep and the Optima I replaced it with.

[Jeff Kleiner]

...The only batteries I've really ever had issues with are the factory one that came with my Jeep and the Optima I replaced it with.

Let me tell you about a couple of factory batteries. We bought a new 2003 Dodge Ram 2500 on Halloween night 2002. In January of 2014 right before my wife was about to tow horses to Florida for the winter I put a new Interstate battery in it as a precaution. That's right, over 12 years. I brought that battery home and put it on the shelf. That summer the ORIGINAL battery in my 2003 Dodge Dakota finally died at 12+ years old so I took the what had been big truck's original battery out of storage and put it in the Dakota. When I sold it in the Spring of 2016 that battery was still in it and starting it every day! Nearly 14 years! Unbelievable! Whoever Chrysler was using as their OEM supplier at that time went over and above :)

Jeff

[Papa]

Let me tell you about a couple of factory batteries. We bought a new 2003 Dodge Ram 2500 on Halloween night 2002. In January of 2014 right before my wife was about to tow horses to Florida for the winter I put a new Interstate battery in it as a precaution. That's right, over 12 years. I brought that battery home and put it on the shelf. That summer the ORIGINAL battery in my 2003 Dodge Dakota finally died at 12+ years old so I took the what had been big truck's original battery out of storage and put it in the Dakota. When I sold it in the Spring of 2016 that battery was still in it and starting it every day! Nearly 14 years! Unbelievable! Whoever Chrysler was using as their OEM supplier at that time went over and above :)

Jeff

The original batteries in my F250 lasted almost 7 years. When it was time to change them, I bought the "same" batteries from Ford. In two years, one of the two was gone. Ford replaced it and two years after that, the new one died. I dumped the Ford batteries and put a couple of Optima red tops in and so far so good, but it's only been two years. Seems that the OEM guys get much better quality batteries than they sell in the parts department.

[FFinisher]

Optima’s used to be the best out there. Then they got sold off-shore! I use NAPA batteries and have had good luck with them. They have great warranties. Those that know me will be surprised!!!

Henry




Now that's ........ NAPA KNOW HOW!


I use Napa Lead acid batteries, occasionally I use an AGM ... 'cause that's all that fits in the FFR spot for a hot rod or pickup..... But I am not a fan, and yes I have had two of them fail. Not sure if Optima's are AGM or Gel.

Generally I try not to overcomplicate simple things and just use a Group 24 lead acid battery, They have worked for years in cars designed simply like most roadsters.

[Boydster]

I installed an Auto Zone Duralast pretty early in my build. First time it died from sitting, it never would take a charge. Now have a whatever brand from Tractor Supply and its working great.

My 2011 F150 still has the factory original. 8 years and almost 100,000 miles and still going strong.

[Sigurd]

If you're gonna' bring me a car with an Optima battery please install a set of remote terminals so it will be easier to jump start. Because it will need to be jump started :(

That is all,
Jeff

Where do you recomend to install the terminals?

[jrcuz]

Jeff, does a front mounted battery qualify?
JR

[GTBradley]

I looked at those Optimas, but damn they're expensive, at least double what a "good" battery costs and like you guys my Tacoma has it's original battery since 2012. And with these mini starters we just don't need much battery, so I went with what was rated well and on sale in a group 51 battery. I figure too that with the up front location and shorter cables things are naturally more efficient, electrically speaking.

[edwardb]

Looks like Optima has replaced MSD to get forum abuse. :rolleyes: Just to confirm, Optima batteries are AGM (Absorbent Glass Mat) as opposed to the traditional flooded lead acid pack. They require a battery charger specifically for AGM. Many, like the CTEK one I use, has both. Optima also has a couple decent battery charger options. A non-AGM battery charger could easily damage an AGM battery. Any chance that could be happening with those having failures? AGM batteries are, by definition, more expensive. So like everything have to decide if worth it. I've used deep cycle yellow top Optimas in several builds, and so far so good. But agree they're not cheap. Odyssey is another AGM option which supposedly has a good reputation, but they're not cheap either. Have a Odyssey PC925T in my Gen 3 Coupe build.

[Straversi]

Thanks Paul,
I’m laid up after back surgery and was just thinking about putting my trickle charger on my Optima. I’ll double check to see if it is compatible with AGM batteries.
Thanks for the post. Good timing.
-Steve

[Jeff Kleiner]

Looks like Optima has replaced MSD to get forum abuse. :rolleyes:

Ordinarily those reputations are earned and based in fact. I think MSD and Optima probably are very similar---they initially introduced good products but over time quality declined due to outsourcing or cost cutting and the products became a crap shoot...some performing as intended and others not so much. It's when the "not so much" begins to reach a significant percentage of the total that these reputations develop.



...They require a battery charger specifically for AGM. Many, like the CTEK one I use, has both. Optima also has a couple decent battery charger options. A non-AGM battery charger could easily damage an AGM battery. Any chance that could be happening with those having failures?...

I can't speak for others but that isn't happening to the ones that are with me because I'm not putting them on my non=AGM charger. When they're dead I follow manufacturers' recommendation and jump them with a loose battery (i.e. not in a car) so that the Optima does not see an amperage spike when connected to a charging alternator. I've had owners send me their Optima chargers and when they do I just keep the car plugged in---kinda' like having a Tesla!

I have some legitimate question for you guys with the AGM batteries: Why? Seriously what drove your decision? What does the AGM battery do/not do vs a wet lead acid battery? Paul or others; do you keep them on the charger when parked for an extended period? Those of you who do this have you experienced any failures?

Jeff

[Derald Rice]

I have some legitimate question for you guys with the AGM batteries: Why? Seriously what drove your decision? What does the AGM battery do/not do vs a wet lead acid battery? Paul or others; do you keep them on the charger when parked for an extended period? Those of you who do this have you experienced any failures?

Jeff

I have four vehicles that have Optima red tops, two are daily drivers. I have had to replace one of them, but it had 17 years of a life well lived. As to the others, one is 13 years old, and the others are 8, 6, and 2 years old. Can't remember when the last time was that I had to use a jump starter. I do start everything at least once a month, whether it needs it or not.

Last year, I was talked into using battery tenders, but up until that time none of them had any special treatment. Since putting the battery tenders on, there has been no appreciable change in the batteries performance, so I am not sure if it helps or not. Can't hurt, so they are still hooked up at this time.

My primary reason was no gassing or corrosion on the posts, which are at times can be hard to get at, especially when under a cover in a box mounted in the floor of the trunk. And since the red top has worked so well, I use it in the others.

Yes, they are expensive, but I can't afford to buy cheap parts. Cheap parts are the ones that give me problems.

I also use MSD ignitions. I have MSD's in three cars with no failures .

Derald.

[edwardb]

Ordinarily those reputations are earned and based in fact. I think MSD and Optima probably are very similar---they initially introduced good products but over time quality declined due to outsourcing or cost cutting and the products became a crap shoot...some performing as intended and others not so much. It's when the "not so much" begins to reach a significant percentage of the total that these reputations develop.

Agree. Was my feeble attempt at putting humor into the discussion. I personally never had trouble with MSD boxes. But my sample size was a grand total of two. Lots of other people did though, and they certainly got beat up whenever mentioned on the forum. Same now it seems for Optima.


I have some legitimate question for you guys with the AGM batteries: Why? Seriously what drove your decision? What does the AGM battery do/not do vs a wet lead acid battery? Paul or others; do you keep them on the charger when parked for an extended period? Those of you who do this have you experienced any failures?

Jeff

Can't say it was a terribly scientific or widely researched decision on my part. I put a red top Optima in my first Mk3 build in 2010. In the stock trunk location. Selected it based on what I thought was a good reputation plus at that time Costco carried them and price and carry-in warranty was attractive. That battery is still going today. For the two Mk4's I've built, both have the Breeze front mount battery. Didn't find a lot of choices for the recommended Group 51 size battery (even though I know there are several) and decided to go with the deep cycle yellow top Optimas that could be ordered with the posts in the best orientation. Again, based on reputation that I was under the impression was good. Plus hoping to get long life since they're not particularly easy to change in that location. Especially #8674 with the Coyote. I use a CTEK 3300 charger which has an AGM selection for testing and charging. During the driving season, don't use it. For winter storage, I don't leave it permanently connected. Several times during the storage time, I put the charger on to check and top it off. So far all good. The one in #8674 is coming up to four years old. Don't know about #7750. Haven't heard from the current owner in NY for awhile. That one would be 6-1/2 years old now. The Odessey AGM I chose for the Coupe build uses the same CTEK charger, and I'm planning on treating it the same. Too early to report any long term experience. OK so far. Agree with Derald on how clean they stay. I've never had a trace of corrosion on the posts or clamps.

[Big Blocker]

I feel your pain Jeff . . . jumping cars with inaccessible batteries sucks!

Now on to the reason I jumped in here; I guess I'm the "old Man" of the group here, that have, and run Optima batteries. 18 years on my Red Top and counting. Only time I put it on a "Battery Tender" is if it's going to be sitting for more than a month. I've had my car apart several times in 18 years for extended periods of time to do my yearly nut-n-bolt sesion mixed in with some "winter mods". Battery has been sitting three to four months at a time - reconnected after mods were done and car fired right up.

That being said, my Red Top was originally purchased back in late 2001 when it became time for electrical testing on the build. I figure that was when Optima was that "good battery" that everyone is talking about . . . not so sure now-a-days.

If and when it finally dies, I'll more than likely replace it with a different type of battery, something that cost about 1/3 what the Optima sells for.

Just my 2¢ and not worth a plugged nickle

Doc

[rich grsc]

I have some legitimate question for you guys with the AGM batteries: Why? Seriously what drove your decision? What does the AGM battery do/not do vs a wet lead acid battery? Paul or others; do you keep them on the charger when parked for an extended period? Those of you who do this have you experienced any failures?

Jeff

My reason was two fold, location of battery, and I hate how lead acid battery can cause corrosion. Never put mine on a charger, has sat for as long as two months, fired right up. Oh ya have a MSD box too. So far so good with that.
116627

[Aircontroller]

Jeff,

I chose an optima for my Honda Accord bc I didn’t want to see traditional acid related issues.

I wanted to give this newer tech a chance. I did have to replace it and I was superbly lucky that it was under warranty and I had the receipt.





I have some legitimate question for you guys with the AGM batteries: Why? Seriously what drove your decision? What does the AGM battery do/not do vs a wet lead acid battery? Paul or others; do you keep them on the charger when parked for an extended period? Those of you who do this have you experienced any failures?

Jeff

[BEAR-AvHistory]

I have some legitimate question for you guys with the AGM batteries: Why? Seriously what drove your decision? What does the AGM battery do/not do vs a wet lead acid battery? Paul or others; do you keep them on the charger when parked for an extended period? Those of you who do this have you experienced any failures?

Jeff

Trunk mounted battery purchased late 2013 or early 2014. Did not want to mix a lead acid battery with my tonneau cover, gloves & jacket I keep there. No failures since new. Have left it a max of 3 weeks without a trickle charge & car started up. Have slight continuous draw with ECU & radio memories.

Have had AGM batteries as OEM on a number of cars & have not had a fail with one. Batteries are not retail branded so I don't know who made them. They do not look to be spiral cell units.

Knew about & have a proper charger so that was not an extra issue.

[first time builder]

Be prepared ! Most of the new cars that have start stop technology use AGM batteries ! Some even have dual batteries.
Kenny

[aspbite]

Buy an Odyssey. I have a PC545, weighs 14#, 7x4x5.25". Never had an issue, and it's made right here in Missouri. :) Jeff didn't jump it.:p

Optima's are made in Mexico I think

That Odyssey number is a motorcycle battery. Only 150 CCA. [Stock Harley is over 300 CCA] It will never turn over a V8.
I bought one for my 100 inch Harley and it wouldn't turn it over, even with compression releases.
Bought a Duracell and it spins it like nobody's business.

[rich grsc]

That Odyssey number is a motorcycle battery. Only 150 CCA. [Stock Harley is over 300 CCA] It will never turn over a V8.
I bought one for my 100 inch Harley and it wouldn't turn it over, even with compression releases.
Bought a Duracell and it spins it like nobody's business.

Well it must be magic then, because it starts my 10 to 1, 331 every time. It's been doing so for over 2 years. If you can see, in post #37, it's mounted right on the foot box.

[Just puttering]

https://www.optimabatteries.com/en-us/support/charging/optima-battery-special-charger

Info from the source

[RBachman]

...I have some legitimate question for you guys with the AGM batteries: Why? Seriously what drove your decision? What does the AGM battery do/not do vs a wet lead acid battery? Paul or others; do you keep them on the charger when parked for an extended period? Those of you who do this have you experienced any failures?

Jeff

Jeff, we've had them in our motor coach(s) and boat for years. I upgraded to these because of their deep cycle capabilities and they don't leak like others do...or shouldn't. Our first RV had cheap batteries and we upgraded to Lifeline AGM's. We did the same when we traded up to a new coach. The "house" batteries are six large 6-volt deep cycle AGM's and then two more 12-volt for starting batteries. The batteries are made in the USA by Lifeline Batteries and have a good reputation. This is our second coach with Lifeline Batteries. I also have three of the 12-volts in my boat for 3 years without issue and it starts every time. (Though I also had a disconnect switch so there was no drain.) In all I've purchased 20 deep cycle batteries over the last 7 or 8 years. Only one has given me problems and that's the Optima and it's not a year old. The Lifelines have never disappointed. So with 19 of the things over a period of 7 years I never had a failure. (Three years for the first coach, and almost 4 for the second.) Then came Optima.

However, they are HEAVY. The boat/RV batteries run around 80 to 90 pounds a copy. I'll go with a non-lead acid battery, but will not use Optima ever again.

I'm actually researching the Lithium-Ion starting batteries now. Here's what I've discovered thus far from that research:
LI batteries add 100 horse power to any car
They cut drag in half
They are so light weight your car will weigh 150 pounds less.
Prevents engine over heating
You'll never have to change oil again
They even reduce the stopping distance by half
Your 1/4 mile times are at least 1.9 seconds faster with 0-60 in under 2.4.
These batteries automatically balance the corners, correct alignment problems and restore rusted parts to new condition
Your MPG will increase by 75%
You will never need to wash your car again
They take 20 years off your age and you'll live past 125
Bikini models will follow you home and your wife will great them with open arms

Oops...maybe that's the Optima?
LOL!

[rich grsc]

Jeff, we've had them in our motor coach(s) and boat for years. I upgraded to these because of their deep cycle capabilities and they don't leak like others do...or shouldn't. Our first RV had cheap batteries and we upgraded to Lifeline AGM's. We did the same when we traded up to a new coach. The "house" batteries are six large 6-volt deep cycle AGM's and then two more 12-volt for starting batteries. The batteries are made in the USA by Lifeline Batteries and have a good reputation. This is our second coach with Lifeline Batteries. I also have three of the 12-volts in my boat for 3 years without issue and it starts every time. (Though I also had a disconnect switch so there was no drain.) In all I've purchased 20 deep cycle batteries over the last 7 or 8 years. Only one has given me problems and that's the Optima and it's not a year old. The Lifelines have never disappointed. So with 19 of the things over a period of 7 years I never had a failure. (Three years for the first coach, and almost 4 for the second.) Then came Optima.

However, they are HEAVY. The boat/RV batteries run around 80 to 90 pounds a copy. I'll go with a non-lead acid battery, but will not use Optima ever again.

I'm actually researching the Lithium-Ion starting batteries now. Here's what I've discovered thus far from that research:
LI batteries add 100 horse power to any car
They cut drag in half
They are so light weight your car will weigh 150 pounds less.
Prevents engine over heating
You'll never have to change oil again
They even reduce the stopping distance by half
Your 1/4 mile times are at least 1.9 seconds faster with 0-60 in under 2.4.
These batteries automatically balance the corners, correct alignment problems and restore rusted parts to new condition
Your MPG will increase by 75%
You will never need to wash your car again
They take 20 years off your age and you'll live past 125
Bikini models will follow you home and your wife will great them with open arms

Oops...maybe that's the Optima?
LOL!
What ever your taking, can I get some!!!:rolleyes:

[aspbite]

Well it must be magic then, because it starts my 10 to 1, 331 every time. It's been doing so for over 2 years. If you can see, in post #37, it's mounted right on the foot box.

That's interesting. Maybe I got a bad one. Never worked from day 1
Or, maybe it is magic
I definetly would never buy another one based on my experience.

[Gizmosrcool]

I have been using battery tender brand chargers on all my toys for many years. Two harleys and a 68 Plymouth sport fury. The Plymouth has a red top. Keeps it fresh as I’m not running it a lot. Mostly the bikes. They handle AGM and GEL. The Harley’s have security system and the tender is needed in the winter months. I also have one on a big generator. Just to be sure it starts. I am a fan of the tenders. They work.

[tbl100]

Agree. Was my feeble attempt at putting humor into the discussion. I personally never had trouble with MSD boxes. But my sample size was a grand total of two. Lots of other people did though, and they certainly got beat up whenever mentioned on the forum. Same now it seems for Optima.



Can't say it was a terribly scientific or widely researched decision on my part. I put a red top Optima in my first Mk3 build in 2010. In the stock trunk location. Selected it based on what I thought was a good reputation plus at that time Costco carried them and price and carry-in warranty was attractive. That battery is still going today. For the two Mk4's I've built, both have the Breeze front mount battery. Didn't find a lot of choices for the recommended Group 51 size battery (even though I know there are several) and decided to go with the deep cycle yellow top Optimas that could be ordered with the posts in the best orientation. Again, based on reputation that I was under the impression was good. Plus hoping to get long life since they're not particularly easy to change in that location. Especially #8674 with the Coyote. I use a CTEK 3300 charger which has an AGM selection for testing and charging. During the driving season, don't use it. For winter storage, I don't leave it permanently connected. Several times during the storage time, I put the charger on to check and top it off. So far all good. The one in #8674 is coming up to four years old. Don't know about #7750. Haven't heard from the current owner in NY for awhile. That one would be 6-1/2 years old now. The Odessey AGM I chose for the Coupe build uses the same CTEK charger, and I'm planning on treating it the same. Too early to report any long term experience. OK so far. Agree with Derald on how clean they stay. I've never had a trace of corrosion on the posts or clamps.

What do you mean by "they're not particularly easy to change in that location"? I am planning on using the Breeze battery box on my Mk4 w/Coyote. Are there some issues I should be aware of? I thought it was supposed to be easier in this location. I am also wondering if a Group 51 battery is big enough for the Coyote?

The specs for a Group 51 seems to be about ~3/4 what a Group 35 is. Is it enough?

Thanks,
Tim

[rich grsc]

What do you mean by "they're not particularly easy to change in that location"? I am planning on using the Breeze battery box on my Mk4 w/Coyote. Are there some issues I should be aware of? I thought it was supposed to be easier in this location. I am also wondering if a Group 51 battery is big enough for the Coyote?

The specs for a Group 51 seems to be about ~3/4 what a Group 35 is. Is it enough?

Thanks,
Tim

Way big enough.

[edwardb]

What do you mean by "they're not particularly easy to change in that location"? I am planning on using the Breeze battery box on my Mk4 w/Coyote. Are there some issues I should be aware of? I thought it was supposed to be easier in this location. I am also wondering if a Group 51 battery is big enough for the Coyote?

The specs for a Group 51 seems to be about ~3/4 what a Group 35 is. Is it enough?

Thanks,
Tim

Not a big deal. Pretty minor actually. Just that there are some obstructions over top of the front battery area. Easy to reach the terminals and mounting. In my case, like others I used a Mustang expansion tank for my Coyote installation. So that, along with the cold air intake, upper radiator hose, hoses for the expansion tank, etc. mean that some disassembly will be required to lift the battery out completely. Again, not a big deal and I wouldn't use it as a reason not to use the front mounting. A group 51 battery easily handles the Coyote, as it would any of the other commonly used engines. Nothing special about the Coyote in that regard.

[tbl100]

Not a big deal. Pretty minor actually. Just that there are some obstructions over top of the front battery area. Easy to reach the terminals and mounting. In my case, like others I used a Mustang expansion tank for my Coyote installation. So that, along with the cold air intake, upper radiator hose, hoses for the expansion tank, etc. mean that some disassembly will be required to lift the battery out completely. Again, not a big deal and I wouldn't use it as a reason not to use the front mounting. A group 51 battery easily handles the Coyote, as it would any of the other commonly used engines. Nothing special about the Coyote in that regard.

Oh, wow, yeah I didn't even think about all the stuff you mentioned that goes in above that area. Thanks for the reality check.

[Jeff Kleiner]

I agree with what edwardb said RE: access which is what prompted my initial post---even in front they can wind up somewhat buried. That initial post by the way was intended to carry a good bit of sarcasm but apparently that didn't come through and the topic grew legs!

Jeff

[GTBradley]

It’s a good discussion and helps people understand their options.

Still not convinced there is an advantage to leaving my old-fashioned lead acid battery. And the first thing I thought of when reading the very technical “what to do if you deeply discharge your AGM battery” was, what if I leave the lights on and kill the the battery at an overnight stop? Can you jump start the AGM when it’s that dead?

[Big Blocker]

Rather than "jump start" the battery, why not "push start" the car. Don't we all have stick-shift cars (Roadsters)?? IF you have enough power to turn on your dash lights, or even get the starter to click, you should be able to push start the car. Once running, it should take a charge enough to get you going again.

Just a thought . . .

Doc

[edwardb]

It’s a good discussion and helps people understand their options.

Still not convinced there is an advantage to leaving my old-fashioned lead acid battery. And the first thing I thought of when reading the very technical “what to do if you deeply discharge your AGM battery” was, what if I leave the lights on and kill the the battery at an overnight stop? Can you jump start the AGM when it’s that dead?

Traditional lead acid batteries don't like to be deeply discharged either. Will shorten their life significantly. So don't think that's a real difference. AGM's do have a specific process for bringing them back if/when it happens, and chargers which have an AGM function typically provide. There are of course deep cycle lead acid batteries, as well as deep cycle AGM (e.g. Optima yellow top) which are made to tolerate it better. If you want an Optima in the Group 51 size, they only come in the deep cycle yellow top variety. Which is one of the reasons they're more expensive.

[Railroad]

Rather than "jump start" the battery, why not "push start" the car. Don't we all have stick-shift cars (Roadsters)?? IF you have enough power to turn on your dash lights, or even get the starter to click, you should be able to push start the car. Once running, it should take a charge enough to get you going again.

Just a thought . . .

Doc

That is one solution, if you did not add all the safety stuff, ie clutch in, to start, trans in neutral, to start, key off, then on to start, etc.

[rich grsc]

That is one solution, if you did not add all the safety stuff, ie clutch in, to start, trans in neutral, to start, key off, then on to start, etc.
That won't have anything to do with bump starting, that just prevents the starter form working.

[Railroad]

That won't have anything to do with bump starting, that just prevents the starter form working.

Oops, thanks, as you were.

[GTBradley]

Traditional lead acid batteries don't like to be deeply discharged either. Will shorten their life significantly. So don't think that's a real difference. AGM's do have a specific process for bringing them back if/when it happens, and chargers which have an AGM function typically provide. There are of course deep cycle lead acid batteries, as well as deep cycle AGM (e.g. Optima yellow top) which are made to tolerate it better. If you want an Optima in the Group 51 size, they only come in the deep cycle yellow top variety. Which is one of the reasons they're more expensive.

So you can jump start an AGM, that's good. I have though had too much experience with running lead acid batteries dead and they do tolerate it to a degree. I've done it to my 7-year-old original Tacoma battery probably three or four times:o. But still, at $150 more than the lead acid it's just not for me.

[JimLev]

Optima’s used to be the best out there. Then they got sold off-shore! I use NAPA batteries and have had good luck with them. They have great warranties. Those that know me will be surprised!!!

Henry

Another plug for the NAPA battery. I replaced the BMW battery in 2008 with a NAPA Legend battery. It is still in the car and working just fine. If I don't drive it for a week or so I connect a smart charger to it....when I remember.

For my Hotrod I bought an Oddssey PC925 AGM.

Good videos Scotty.

[Randy's]

I'm using a AGM type battery from Bosch. Only had it six months but no issues yet. Anyone else use this brand?

[Randy's]

I'm using an AGM battery from Bosch. Only six months old but no issues yet. Anyone else using this brand?

[jlw]

Great! I just broke down and bought two red tops for my plow truck and now I read this.
This truck sits sometimes for two or three weeks at a time and was killing lead acid batteries left and right. I was lucky to get two years out of them. So I thought I'd "upgrade" to the Optimas. Was hoping they would not go dead so fast and I would be fine leaving it for three weeks at a time. Everything was fine for the first six months but then they died on me as well. Now I have one that I don't think is charging. Ugh!
What brand of trickle charger do you guys use/recommend?

I had the same issue with a SEA DOO years ago. Was lucky to get two years out of a battery. I put an Odyssey battery in it and never had another issue for the last five years that I had it.
Was hoping to get the same results with this truck.

[Papa]

Not to incite a riot, but Optima AGM batteries can be charged with a typical battery charger. The following is from the Optima website:

Both the OPTIMA Chargers Digital 400 and Digital 1200 12V Performance Battery Charger and Maintainer enhance the performance of OPTIMA and other AGM batteries, recover deeply discharged batteries and extend battery life. However, under normal vehicle-starting applications, most regular automatic lead-acid battery chargers will properly charge an OPTIMA battery. However, since OPTIMA batteries are frequently used in high-performance applications or nonstandard vehicle-starting applications, there are certain instances that must be given special considerations.

An OPTIMA battery is an AGM battery, not a gel battery or regular flooded battery. A deeply discharged OPTIMA battery (less than 10.5 volts) will not test or recharge properly if treated as a gel battery or regular flooded battery. A handheld electronic battery tester will most likely provide inaccurate results.

An OPTIMA battery has the benefit of very low internal resistance, which allows high-amperage output as well as efficient charge acceptance. This benefit also allows an OPTIMA battery to run longer than its specified ratings and run at a lower voltage than typical flooded batteries. All of this can lead to confusion when it comes to recharging a deeply discharged OPTIMA. Most basic battery chargers have a built-in function to prevent charging a battery with less than 10.5 volts. If your OPTIMA battery is discharged below that, the battery charger may not start up.

Most high-quality, modern battery chargers now have built-in features to charge AGM batteries like OPTIMA batteries. Some have specific AGM settings, which should be used to charge an OPTIMA battery. Do not use gel or gel/AGM settings, as they will not fully charge an OPTIMA battery and could damage it over time. However, even some AGM-compatible chargers will not recharge deeply discharged (less than 10.5 volts) OPTIMA batteries. In those instances, it may be necessary to follow the parallel charging instructions.

For regular charging, we recommend a maximum of 10 amps, 13.8 to 15.0 volts. For float charging, we recommend one amp maximum, 13.2 to 13.8 volts.

Under normal (engine-starting) conditions, an OPTIMA battery should never experience “at-rest” voltages below 10.5 volts. In these applications, most 12-volt chargers (old or new) or alternators will sufficiently recharge an OPTIMA battery with at least 10.5 volts. Typically, we only see issues with charging when it relates to stand-alone deep-cycling applications or severely discharged OPTIMA batteries.

These guidelines are intended for typical consumer applications. For military, commercial applications or new equipment design, please contact OPTIMA for additional technical information and assistance.

[Steven K]

The best battery I ever had was a Panasonic battery that came with my 2003 4Runner. It lasted 14 years and about 225,000 miles.

[beetlespin]

I use four blue tops in my boat that are made for starting and deep cycle. I fish mainly electric only lakes which uses a lot of battery power. Got about four years out of the first four.

It is important that once they are discharged to get them on a charger as soon as possible. I like these because there's no water to check or spill. Once you spilled battery water/acid on aluminum you'll know what I mean.

[Avalanche325]

There are hundreds of "brands". But there are only three or four companies that manufacture them all in the US. There may be a couple, under Johnson Controls for example, that manufacture separately to their own specs. But there truly isn't as much choice as you think.

For instance - NAPA of course does not actually make batteries. They used to be made by Exide, then they apparently switched to Deka which is East Penn. You can see how your favorite brand may be completely different the next time you buy it.

[BEAR-AvHistory]

There are hundreds of "brands". But there are only three or four companies that manufacture them all in the US. There may be a couple, under Johnson Controls for example, that manufacture separately to their own specs. But there truly isn't as much choice as you think.

For instance - NAPA of course does not actually make batteries. They used to be made by Exide, then they apparently switched to Deka which is East Penn. You can see how your favorite brand may be completely different the next time you buy it.

+1 Johnson Controls, the world's largest manufacturer of automotive batteries makes Optima in Mexico.

[edwardb]

+1 Johnson Controls, the world's largest manufacturer of automotive batteries makes Optima in Mexico.

Have seen this mentioned in automotive related news sources for the past year or so. Now official. Johnson Controls is out of the battery business. Summarized in Wikipedia:

"The Johnson Controls Power Solutions unit was sold to Brookfield Business Partners and re-made into a new company, Clarios, as of May 1, 2019.

The Power Solutions business unit designs and manufactures automotive batteries for passenger cars, heavy and light duty trucks, utility vehicles, motorcycles, golf carts and boats. It supplies more than one third of the world's lead-acid batteries to automakers and aftermarket retailers including Wal-Mart, Sears, Toyota, and BMW. Lead acid battery brands produced under this business unit include Continental, OPTIMA, Heliar, LTH, Delkor and VARTA automotive batteries. This part of the company also manufactures Lithium-ion cells and complete battery systems to power hybrid and electric vehicles such as the Ford Fusion and Daimler's S-Class 400. Additionally, it manufactures Absorbent Glass Matt (AGM) and Enhanced Flooded Batteries (EFB) batteries to power Start-Stop vehicles such as the Chevy Malibu and Ford Fusion. On November 13, 2018 Johnson Controls agrees to sell its Power Solutions Division to Brookfield Business Partners."

[Grande]

I totally agree with Jeff about having jumper posts, no matter which type of battery installed. (Just as a note and info,) ,and in defense to these batteries, most of the damage or failures are caused by ourselves without knowing, (excluding a natural dead battery from a drain) These batteries are AGM batteries which must and should be charged with an intelligent charger. What that means is a constant 14,4 voltage charge with a PWM (pulse width modulation) technology. So if we charge these batteries with our regular shop charger, or slow charger, we are actually damaging these batteries and shorten there life span drastically. Most chargers today use this technology (called smart charging). I just wanted to post info, hopefully doesn't come out as a smart *** remark. And God bless Jeff. I actually am soooo jealous of his talents (along with some others I am secretly following in my build- without posts, isn't that mean?

[RBachman]

Jeff,

I thought about you and this post today when jump starting my Jeep...and when trying to charge the battery...and when buying a replacement battery...and when yanking that yellow hunk of $$$$$ junk out of my car. But then again, it's over a year old now, and I've discovered that's about the life expectancy of the darn things. Mine had swelled up and distorted itself a little also. LOL.

[cv2065]

Jeff's right. I have a yellow top (new), and after about 4 weeks of non use, it needed to be charged before I could start. After 2 weeks, it was capable but not 100%. And I do have a smart charger for AGM batteries. So I guess I'll be sending my charger with the car when it goes to Jeff!

[edwardb]

I must be doing something wrong. I've used the Optima Group 51 yellow top on three builds. All have been rock solid. Current one in #8674 is 4 years old. Don't touch it during driving season. During winter storage, I throw my CTEK charger on it every month or two. Does a diagnostic and tops it off. Last time was a couple weeks ago and it was fine.

Some kind of charge issue if a battery is swelling up. Drain after two weeks I'd be looking for parasitic draw. In either case, if the battery is really defective, they do have a 36 month replacement warranty. Not saying the Optima AGM's are the best and they certainly aren't the cheapest. But IMO there has to be more to the story for some of what's being reported.

[Avalanche325]

I chose a RedTop for a few reasons:
I wanted it under the trunk floor for:
A. weight distribution.
B. Don't have to look at it in my engine bay
C. Heat is terrible for batteries.

and they don't have a corrosion problem. Which is great for under the trunk.

Zero maintenance.
They had, at the time, a very good reputation.

Almost forgot. Red is faster!

Accessibility is not even a concern for me. I haven't seen my battery in 5 years and 24k+ miles. There is nothing that says that jumper cables, battery tenders, jump packs have to physically hook to the battery posts. I can hook to my positive junction block on the firewall and anything bare for negative. If it is a PITA to replace once every 7-10 years, so what? Now that I said that, I'm sure my battery will die within a week.