Partial success.....Coyote runs...for 2 seconds at a time

[oldguy668]

Here's the scenario:
Coyote with Ford Racing Control pack.
All factory sensors are connected.
All factory wiring intact.
O2 sensors are connected but hanging from frame. No side pipes yet.
40 PSI fuel pressure
60 PSI oil pressure

Starts and runs for about 2-3 seconds, then shuts right off.

Any suggestions?

[3kcarbon]

I think I would call Ford Racing Tech when they open up. Sounds like something in the electronics isn't happy and doesn't want to play when it doesn't see a signal or voltage it expects. Did they give you any kind of setup manual with it?

Do the O2 sensors have to be grounded?

[oldguy668]

These O2s have 6 wires, so I would assume they are internally grounded, but I can add a ground for test purposes.

[mrmustang]

Does the new brain box have a switch off for a security input (IE: Chipped key) that you forget to switch off electronically?


Bill S.

[oldguy668]

Nothing in the paperwork about that Bill. This control package is designed for kit cars and hot rods so a chipped key probably isn't programmed in.

[Arrowhead]

Hmm, that's a peplexing problem. Does the fuel pump stay ruuning the entire 2-3 seconds? I agree w/ above, sounds like a computer program issue, if you had hooked up something wrong, I bet it wouldn't run at all. Granted, the 02 sensors aren't seeing a correct signal, and that wouldn't have been a prblem with older gereation ECU's, not sure about this latest genration.

[Mustang Man]

PATS, if enabled, wouldn't even allow the starter to engage, let alone start for two seconds and quit. The install we did (into a '94 Cobra) had an issue where it wouldn't rev over 2,000 rpm and FRPP had to be involved to reflash the PCM and talk directly to the shop doing the install.

Joe, give Jesse a shout on Tues and see what they say...

Mark

[oldguy668]

Jesse is the next logical step, but I might want to try pulling codes before I call him. I was very careful to keep the stock oil level sensor and oil pressure sensor, and the only wires that I cut and extended were for the O2's. All the other wiring mods involved just opening the harness and rerouting some of the wires. The damn thing sounds so good for those 2 seconds, though.....

[Wayne Presley]

BTW, the O2's are wideband on that control pack.

[oldguy668]

BTW, the O2's are wideband on that control pack.

What does that mean?

[Wayne Presley]

It means that the factory ecu is going to be really good at keeping the mixture correct....

[Richard Oben]

Check the flow direction on the MAF, it will go in backwards, do not ask how we know, HTH, Richard.

[oldguy668]

Richard, I checked that already. I did remember that I did not plug the three large vacuum ports, so I'll do that and try again

[JGPierce]

Joe, let us know what you find out. Good luck.


John

[FFinisher]

Joe I have no experience witha Coyote..... yet,

But I would be checking the vacuum lines , the 4.6 cars all have a vacuum port that goes to the fuel rail for a fuel shutoff, if it does not get vacuum at startup it closes and turns off the fuel.

Not sure if it is any help, but its worth a quick look.

[oldguy668]

There are three large vacuum ports on the engine. One is on the back of the manifold, and two are up front, right on or near the throttle body. You can see them inside the white oval in this picture.

3990

I don't know what they are for, but I plugged them all for a test firing tomorrow night.

[Scott7644]

I don't have those three ports hooked up either. If you don't have it figured out, I can look at my wiring and let you know how I have it hooked up.

[Scott7644]

Just a thought- is your oil pressure sensor "grounded"? I don't remember if you tee'ed it in with rubber hose or metal fittings. I was wondering if the computer is shutting it down for not seeing oil pressure.

What did you use to connect your heater hoses (4 way port)? And where did you get it? I just have my engine side heater hoses coupled together, but I need to add my heater.

[Arrowhead]

There are three large vacuum ports on the engine. One is on the back of the manifold, and two are up front, right on or near the throttle body. You can see them inside the white oval in this picture.

I don't know what they are for, but I plugged them all for a test firing tomorrow night.

Well there's your problem! I'll bet it takes right off now. All that extra air is thowing the mixture way off since it's after the mass air meter.

[Richard Oben]

Plug all the vacuum lines, there are three or four that need to be plugged. The Oil Pressure is not seen by the computer, so that is not the issue. HTH, Richard.

PS remember it will be something simple. Make sure the run wire is on the run side not the start side. Richard.

[Scott7644]

I just have a paper towel taped over the the 3 vacuum ports for now - mine runs and idles.
Joe - you can email me or call me if you need anything - you should have my number in a previous email that I sent to you.

I talked to Ford Racing about the O2 sensors this morning. They said that you can extend the O2 wires on the wire harnass side - but, not on the O2 sensor side (O2 sensor and pigtail). I wasn't clear about this before. I hope it helps someone.

[skullandbones]

You just did help someone. I was told by the tech for my EFI harness that you didn't need to use the O2 sensor (just leave them hanging). Since I have BBK 4 into 4 headers, I was going to do that but now I think I will take the better route and cut, solder, and lenthen the wires to the side pipes and have bungs installed for my sensors. Thanks for your input and good luck on your project, too! WEK.

[oldguy668]

You just did help someone. I was told by the tech for my EFI harness that you didn't need to use the O2 sensor (just leave them hanging). Since I have BBK 4 into 4 headers, I was going to do that but now I think I will take the better route and cut, solder, and lenthen the wires to the side pipes and have bungs installed for my sensors. Thanks for your input and good luck on your project, too! WEK.

The O2 harnesses have 2 twisted pairs each. Be sure to observe the same direction of twist and approximate turns per foot on any wires you extend.

[oldguy668]

No joy.

I plugged the vacuum ports
I double checked all the ignition/start wiring
I quadruple checked the MAF sensor direction
I grounded the O2 sensors to simulate mounting them

The Ford Racing techie wants me to pull codes and call him back, so tomorrow I'll get a scanner.

[oldguy668]

So, I went to Autozone and bought the cheapie scan tool. The good and bad news is there are NO CODES. Zip, Zero, Nada. The tool is communicating because I'm getting readouts for the monitors. But, there are no trouble codes. Now what?

[mrmustang]

So, I went to Autozone and bought the cheapie scan tool. The good and bad news is there are NO CODES. Zip, Zero, Nada. The tool is communicating because I'm getting readouts for the monitors. But, there are no trouble codes. Now what?

The not so serious answer:

It's totaled, I'll give you $100 cash for it :D

The serious answer:
I'd question the no codes issue and perhaps look at a faulty ECU or wiring harness (perhaps a bent pin in one or the other) as being the culprit......It's not the first time I've seen it (not on a Coyote motor) on a stand alone system from Ford...Just something to think about.......


Bill S.

[oldguy668]

It runs. Sounds good, too. The problem is in the ISIS system. I'll send Mike a message describing the symptoms and he'll come up with a test or fix, he always does. In order to get the engine to run, I had to wire the ignition and starter circuits directly to the battery and bypass ISIS. I ran it for about ten minutes and had no leaks. It's running a little smelly because the O2s are not plugged in, but I'm still a heck of a lot happier than I was 1 hour ago.

[riptide motorsport]

I just love a happy ending!!!

[tenncobra]

Glad you figured it out. Now, where is that video for proof?

[buildit]

Just curious.....does Mike think the problem might be that the voltage in the ISIS is dropping below its lower threshold? I was one of the early users, and that was a problem with mine. I have my battery in the trunk and really heavy cables, but it was dropping below that threshold (7V, I think) for an instant when I hit the starter and kicking out the ISIS MasterCell. They modified my cell and I think actually modified their board to lower the threshold in all future shipments. Let us know what you find out. Thanks!

[oldguy668]

Okay, the problem is now isolated to this: When the alternator is hooked up, the ISIS system shuts down after 2 seconds and resets as soon as the loads are off. When the alternator is disconnected, the engine starts and runs just fine.

ISIS' troubleshooter says:
If the automobile’s battery does not have a charge between 10V and 14V ISIS™ Intelligent Multiplex System™ will not turn on.
Also, if the alternator is fluctuating, ISIS™ Intelligent Multiplex System™ will also turn off. This will turn off the car.


I checked the voltage at the battery and I am getting about 14.5 volts when the alternator is hooked up, and about 12.5 without it, so it looks like the alternator is putting out voltage that exceeds the ISIS upper limit, or the alternator output is fluctuating.

I guess I'll contact both Ford and ISIS tomorrow and see what the consensus is.

[buildit]

VERY curious....please keep us ISIS owners posted! they'll get it.....they're great to work with in my experience......and as a "beta" tester, I've had a lot of experience!

[oldguy668]

Mike at ISIS asked for my two powercells so he could update the boards. The newer boards have a floating upper voltage limit and are not as sensitive to high-output alternators. I should have them back by the weekend, so a go-cart ride is on the agenda.

[riptide motorsport]

Video!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Someday I Suppose]

Joe, great news on getting it figured out, looking forward to seeing some video of it and the go-cart

[oldguy668]

Mike Weber at ISIS turned my Powercells around in one day and overnighted them back. They were reflashed to change the characteristics of the upper charge voltage limit. Put them back in and all is now well. I do feel a little foolish about haunting the guys at Ford Racing for a week while I chased this gremlin, but they graciously tried to accommodate me. Tomorrow might be a little go-cart style neighborhood terrorism.

[buildit]

Just wanted to say that this has been the typical service level from ISIS for me also.....great guys to work with, and really feel an obligation to make their stuff work like we want it to work!

[ClemsonS197]

Looks like you got it figured out, but a guy PMed me and his drive-by-wire throttle was faulty. Just a thought.