fletch & son's build thread

[fletch]

Finally... getting around to making this thread.

Back on Saturday, March 23rd my son, a very good friend of ours, and I picked up the in-process red car kit from Bob_n_Cincy & his son Michael. They live outside Cincinnati, OH. We live outside of Albuquerque, NM — 2,800 miles in 3 days. We were beat when we got home, but had an unloading crew ready to assist.

While in Cincy, Bob and Mike gave us a tour of the blue ICE 818s and took us for some spins around the neighborhood. This was the first completed 818 we’d seen in person and our first ride in one. We exited the blue car with some very big grins! Bob & Mike were gracious with their time, but we needed to get on the road quickly to make the return trip.

The kit is chassis #21 with several of Bob’s modifications. Highlights in the kit as purchased include the front gas tank with necessary frame mods and most of the parts from an ’05 FXT Bob & Mike had prepared for use.

After our departure from Bob’s we passed the St. Louis arch & settled in for a long day of driving. That night while pulling into a rest stop in Oklahoma, we saw the Factory Five semi truck pulling out! It was headed to our place to drop off the hardtop we’d ordered from FFR directly. We met up with the truck the next day.

Bob & Mike’s original build thread:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?19795-Michael-s-and-Bob-s-Second-818-build-(red-frame)

114808114809114810114811114812114813

[fletch]

My son, Isaac, is 15 and will be getting his provisional license tomorrow. New Mexico is the wild, wild west and people around here drive like that's still the case! I can't believe my kid is driving. <sigh>

Our build goals are pretty simple:

Learn new skills - welding, assembly, fab, paint, wiring, all sorts of other things
Spend time together with my kids - show them that the complex things around them are really just combinations of simple things
Solve problems together
Have the satisfaction of doing a good job
Build a working car
Have fun with the research, decisions, build, and driving
Stretch goal - build a car that I will want to drive regularly


General overview of build:
Looking to make a street driver, with occasional autocross days - mostly to gain skill in driving it safely
Power steering
ABS
AC + heat
WRX front brakes
FXT front calipers installed in rear
Front mount tank

Shooting for a two-year long build, but that's very open-ended. I'm not a huge planner, but I do work at problems persistently. So we'll see how it plays out.

[fletch]

Bob supplied most of the donor parts from an 05 FXT. Conspicuously absent was an engine & transmission!
So we purchased a rolled 06 WRX wagon at auction. It was a bit sad disassembling this car because it was clearly loved by its owner before the wreck. It had 96k on it and was almost completely stock. We moved fast and may have misplaced a few bolts. Fortunately, we've got all of the parts provided by Bob to refer to!

This was the first time I'd pulled an engine. A little sawzall action on the front frame members and everything came out smoothly. Getting the engine out was far easier than pulling out the heater core.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Good luck Brian and Isaac. This will be an experience that you both will cherish the rest of your life.
Let me know if you need any parts.
Bob

[fletch]

Thanks Bob. I appreciate all the help you've provided so far and I'm working on a list of questions for you!

[aquillen]

Looking forward to your posts. Glad you have your kids in the project - fantastic stuff to do together.

[Frank818]

Let's keep an eye on this one too. :)

[AZPete]

The only project better than building a Factory Five car is building it as a parent/child project. I'm envious.

[Frank818]

Our build goals are pretty simple:

Build a working car


YES! And by now you know a lot what I mean by that. :)


Can you elaborate more on the engine/drivetrain you plan on dropping in? We didn't talk much about your build, on Friday!

Also once you get pix of that Bob's fuel tank, I'm curious to see how it looks and the details around the fuel pump hole and level sender hole.


Details is what will make the car a DD and reliable. Fitting stuff in is easy. Making everything work flawlessly is another story, those little details to finish up the fitment is what will make the biggest difference on a DD. But you already have that in mind after discussing with you, which is a great start, you shouldn't have much things to come back to and re-do cuz you forgot little details for reliability. :)


I'm also very interested about your FXT front calipers installed in rear, those are Forester XT fronts you will install in rear? Do you know if there's a thread on that somewhere? I'd like to change my current setup but I'd like something that would fit using the existing brackets without too much modifications, if that exists...

[fletch]

Can you elaborate more on the engine/drivetrain you plan on dropping in? We didn't talk much about your build, on Friday!

I'll be using the 2.5L EJ255 from an 06 WRX donor. It has ~96k miles on it.


Also once you get pix of that Bob's fuel tank, I'm curious to see how it looks and the details around the fuel pump hole and level sender hole
Will do.


I'm also very interested about your FXT front calipers installed in rear, those are Forester XT fronts you will install in rear? Do you know if there's a thread on that somewhere? I'd like to change my current setup but I'd like something that would fit using the existing brackets without too much modifications, if that exists...
I'll be writing up what we did eventually. Admittedly, I haven't gotten the rotors figured out yet so it might be a while. You can also check Bob's thread for some details.

[fletch]

Performed a very quick & crude first go at assembling the front & rear suspension mostly to confirm we've got all the right parts & fasteners.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=116493&d=1571716990
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=116494&d=1571716997
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=116495&d=1571717005

Learned a few things:
1) The rear trailing arms need to be flipped.
2) We need to figure a way to properly mount the steering rack. The spacers on hand don't fit properly and, more importantly, the cradle interferes with one of the power steering fluid ports. Mechie's cradle seems like a good solution, but I'm not 100% certain it will be a proper fit.
3) I do have a steering rack spacer to extend the rack on the passenger side. I'm assuming I'll also need a longer boot on that side. Can anyone confirm?
4) I'm really not happy with the way the front LCAs fit. We had to fight very hard to get them installed in the outer holes. Even then, they are not square to the brackets. Here's an example of the misalignment. Note the angle between the rear edge of the "hurricane" bracket and the mount point on the frame. Input would be most welcome.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=116496&d=1571717272

[fletch]

Our pedal box is from an 06 WRX so it's got the frustrating drive by wire setup. I really like the look of the pedal and prefer the DBW setup for simplicity so I figured we'd try to make it work. Here's how we did it.

First, we figured out where the pedal should go using a piece of plywood.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=116492&d=1571716913
Used some 1/4" flat stock to make it official. (Those are my welds. Isaac's are typically a little nicer.)
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=116487&d=1571716830
Taped some rare earth magnets to the back of the pedal for ease of determining location during mock up.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=116489&d=1571716851
Once we figured out the location of the pedal on the bracket, we drilled the holes. Here's the hardware we used.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=116488&d=1571716840
Here's the nearly finished product:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=116490&d=1571716897
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=116491&d=1571716905
We used some drawer liner foam strips inside the pipe brackets to take up the space. Only thing left is to buy some rivnuts to secure the bottom of the bracket to the vertical firewall brace.

[Hobby Racer]

Picture links are broken :(

[fletch]

Picture links are broken :(

Should be fixed now.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Performed a very quick & crude first go at assembling the front & rear suspension mostly to confirm we've got all the right parts & fasteners.


Learned a few things:
1) The rear trailing arms need to be flipped.
2) We need to figure a way to properly mount the steering rack. The spacers on hand don't fit properly and, more importantly, the cradle interferes with one of the power steering fluid ports. Mechie's cradle seems like a good solution, but I'm not 100% certain it will be a proper fit.
3) I do have a steering rack spacer to extend the rack on the passenger side. I'm assuming I'll also need a longer boot on that side. Can anyone confirm?
4) I'm really not happy with the way the front LCAs fit. We had to fight very hard to get them installed in the outer holes. Even then, they are not square to the brackets. Here's an example of the misalignment. Note the angle between the rear edge of the "hurricane" bracket and the mount point on the frame. Input would be most welcome.

Your front strut adapter are on backwards.
You don't need a longer boot for the steering rack extender.
The LCA fitment has never been good. here is the original picture: 116497

On my rack extender, I added a roll pin for safety. 116498

[fletch]

Bob,
Thanks for the info on the steering rack. It was apparent to me that you had trouble with the LCAs given the oval mounting holes. We'll just do our best to get all the bolts to seat securely and move on.

Your front strut adapter are on backwards.

Can you tell me more about this? I'm thinking you mean the lower attachment points for the struts should be rotated 180. (But secretly hoping that's not the case since we welded them... Maybe this is the excuse I was looking for to buy the aluminum LCAs. :D)

[sgarrett]

I think he is talking about the part I put a red oval around below....

116518

I would also look again at the place I have the red arrow pointing. I think the grease fittings are supposed to be facing up. You may have those on upside down. But to get them right I think you need to disassemble the upper a-arm pieces.

[fletch]

I'm embarrassed. Looking back at my own photos, it's apparent those are incorrect. Thanks for pointing out that (no so) obvious goof!
Looks like I'll need to find a different reason to buy the aluminum LCAs!

[sgarrett]

Welcome to the club! You are not alone when it comes to goofs!

[Bob_n_Cincy]

I'm embarrassed. Looking back at my own photos, it's apparent those are incorrect. Thanks for pointing out that (no so) obvious goof!
Looks like I'll need to find a different reason to buy the aluminum LCAs!

Don't feel bad, I think 1/2 of the builders put the hurricane mounts in up-side-down the first time.

You would of figure it out when the tires rubbed. Just to let you know, everybody's tires rubbed somewhere.
Bob

[Frank818]

everybody's tires rubbed somewhere.

LOOLLL!!! So true.
Now Brian you probably think "then how come mines didn't rub?" Well I implemented various solutions all in one to prevent that from happening. But they did rub until I implemented all those small solutions. YMMV depending on a lot of things, for some people some solutions don't work well, others they work perfect.
If you ever want to know what I did specifically on mine, lemme know. And BTW, this area is a very rare one where all my custom solutions from the VR6 implementation have not dictated any of my solutions, so they may well be 100% applicable to you as well. :)

[aquillen]

My front wheels rubbed the frame just a bit until I got the castor set, then plenty of room showed up there. Now it's true my suspension is a one-off since I went with 2009 Legacy parts, but my lower arms are setup to mimic the FFR designed geometry AND from other builder threads you'll still find that your castor needs to be about right before you decide whether you have a clearance problem or not.

[fletch]

Don't feel bad, I think 1/2 of the builders put the hurricane mounts in up-side-down the first time.

You would of figure it out when the tires rubbed. Just to let you know, everybody's tires rubbed somewhere.
Bob

Have we got the hurricane mounts correct? Flat side up?

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Have we got the hurricane mounts correct? Flat side up?
Yes, flat side up is correct.
Doing so moves the pivot point toward the side of the car. This move the ball joint forward. This give you more clearance between tire and firewall.
Bob
116693

[fletch]

Update on rear brakes: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?34764-Installing-DBA-2657-rotors-in-the-rear

[fletch]

Steering rack bracket: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?34763-5-steering-rack-cradle

[fletch]

This update has been a long time in coming. As I look at the status of things, I actually feel a bit discouraged even though I know there's a lot of work represented. First, some pics.
The car as it stands today. All four corners are in. Fronts are fully torqued, rears partially until engine is dropped in. Gas tank is in (and not coming out!). Seats are ready to go in, but are out for now. Rear firewall and rear-rear firewall are prepped.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=124971&d=1585364267

Here's the engine/trans combo. Doesn't look like much, but... timing belt & water pump replaced, new plugs, clocked turbo, evap|PCV|EGR deleted, harness dieted, and probably a couple other things I don't remember. I could use some insight here. I'm just about ready to torque the intake manifold back on, but I'm afraid we're forgetting something. We're keeping AC & power steering. Is there anything else we really ought to do before we torque the manifold?
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=124972&d=1585364283

And here's a quick shot of the front right corner showing the brakes, control arm & some of the inner fender.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=124973&d=1585364294

Once we get the intake manifold torqued, our next move is to put the engine in place. Then start plumbing everything...

[AZPete]

Huh? "a bit discouraged", you say? It looks like you've completed a lot of projects so far. Remember that it's hundreds of small projects and not one big project. Remember the elephant eating adage. All that you've completed looks good to me.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Here's the engine/trans combo. Doesn't look like much, but... timing belt & water pump replaced, new plugs, clocked turbo, evap|PCV|EGR deleted, harness dieted, and probably a couple other things I don't remember. I could use some insight here. I'm just about ready to torque the intake manifold back on, but I'm afraid we're forgetting something. We're keeping AC & power steering. Is there anything else we really ought to do before we torque the manifold?

Looking good Brian, Great job.
Are you going to do a TGV delete before putting on the intake manifold?
Nice looking engine. I have never seen an unrusted exhaust heat shield.

Bob

[aquillen]

Looks really, really nice. Make a list and cross something off - sometimes that helps me when it just seems there's no light in the tunnel... Keep it fun.

[fletch]

Thanks, everyone, for the encouragement. You know how it is -- set some goals and struggle to keep them. Plus, it's been a year since we picked up the kit. Just hoping we'd be further along. That's all. Hopefully, we'll get the engine in this weekend.


Looking good Brian, Great job.
Are you going to do a TGV delete before putting on the intake manifold?
Nice looking engine. I have never seen an unrusted exhaust heat shield.
Bob

Hey Bob. Yes, one of the things I forgot to mention was the TGV delete. And yes, I'm happy with the condition of the engine. Shows what it's like here in the southwest.

[fletch]

Need some help. With the engine in, lots of things sit below the frame and interfere with the lovely belly pan we made months ago. Both ends of the exhaust manifold, the oil pan, even the oil filter. We could make some spacers for the engine mounts to lift the engine by about 1/2-3/4" but even then we'll still have some interference. Without spending much $$$ (new oil pan, etc.), what's the conventional wisdom on how to make things better? Thanks!

[Ajzride]

Notch the belly pan?

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Need some help. With the engine in, lots of things sit below the frame and interfere with the lovely belly pan we made months ago. Both ends of the exhaust manifold, the oil pan, even the oil filter. We could make some spacers for the engine mounts to lift the engine by about 1/2-3/4" but even then we'll still have some interference. Without spending much $$$ (new oil pan, etc.), what's the conventional wisdom on how to make things better? Thanks!

Here is a picture of my belly pan, Only the oil pan needed a hole cut. Some other components may be touched by the pan.
125167

The wrx pan if I remember correctly is about an inch deeper than the forester pan.
Top Left: Killer B Motorsport Oil Pan
Top Right: OEM 2002-2005 EJ20 WRX Oil Pan Subaru number 11109AA053
Bottom Right: OEM 06+ EJ25 Impreza WRX/STi (STi, Legacy GT & Forester XT) Subaru number 11109AA151
Bottom Left: OEM 04-05 EJ25 Impreza STi (Legacy GT & Forester XT) Subaru number 11109AA131
125168

[fletch]

Notch the belly pan?


Here is a picture of my belly pan, Only the oil pan needed a hole cut. Some other components may be touched by the pan.
125167

The wrx pan if I remember correctly is about an inch deeper than the forester pan.
Top Left: Killer B Motorsport Oil Pan
Top Right: OEM 2002-2005 EJ20 WRX Oil Pan Subaru number 11109AA053
Bottom Right: OEM 06+ EJ25 Impreza WRX/STi (STi, Legacy GT & Forester XT) Subaru number 11109AA151
Bottom Left: OEM 04-05 EJ25 Impreza STi (Legacy GT & Forester XT) Subaru number 11109AA131
125168

Our "new and improved" belly pan.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=125733&d=1586150712
And our super fancy metal brake.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=125732&d=1586150702

[fletch]

We are at go-kart stage. :D

Pics & video tonight.

[fletch]

On Friday, we had our first start! Here's a video of our second start, the first with all four cylinders. The first start actually happened when we testing for spark. One plug was out and another coil was disconnected. The engine started on two cylinders!

https://youtu.be/82aJTK9TmW4

[fletch]

On Saturday, we got to go-kart stage after addressing a few ride height issues. Here's a video of Isaac and his younger brother touring the neighborhood. His sister is the voice asking for the next ride! It's such a great experience seeing the smile on his face.

https://youtu.be/vWRFGgRncxY

[fletch]

Here are a few pics showing how things stand. Comments, questions, suggestions are all welcome.

The rat's nest
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137102&d=1604369243

Epic intake hanger!
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137101&d=1604369234
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137100&d=1604369225
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137099&d=1604369216
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137098&d=1604369208

Note, the near A-arm is leaking grease through the top. Any suggestions on this?
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137097&d=1604369197
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137096&d=1604369187

[Ajzride]

Amazing how good that red frame looks.

[fletch]

Amazing how good that red frame looks.

Agreed. Big thanks to Bob_n_Cincy for his color choice!

[AZPete]

I agree that the red frame looks good, bit everything is much to clean. I LOVE all gokart vids but the smiles and "can I have a ride?" make this memorable.

[JimLev]

Congrats, looks like you’ve made a lot of progress since I was there.

[fletch]

I agree that the red frame looks good, bit everything is much to clean.
Thanks, Pete! Comments like that mean a lot coming from you. And yes, the kids’ enthusiasm was great. It was a really special moment when I could remind my son of all the hard work he’d put in and that this was such an amazing accomplishment. Honestly, I’m still floored that we’ve gotten this far with it. While I had always imagined we would finish the car, I didn’t appreciate all the challenges we’d need to overcome. And yes, I know go-kart is just the beginning of many of the challenges. 😄


Congrats, looks like you’ve made a lot of progress since I was there.
Thanks, Jim. Hopefully you saw those battery cables of yours. I appreciate your help through all this. Just make sure to keep working on your ‘33!!!

[JimLev]

Fletch, I forgot all about looking for the cables. Just went back and saw you had put the blue sleeving on them. Glad you found a use for it.
Still coming over this Fri or Sat to get that adapter milled?

[fletch]

It's cold and windy out today so I figured I'd spend some time posting. Here's a shot of the engine bay. Starting from 12 o'clock moving clockwise you'll see:
- Two 120A breakers mounted to the rear firewall. These are (1) between the alternator and the battery, and (2) between the battery and the rest of the car. They have proven very handy already in our electrical debug but are mostly there to isolate the energy from the cabin in case of a (big!) short.
- The power steering reservoir. This had to be relocated and of course we need to have longer hoses fabbed, but for ~$100 I figured it was worth it.
- Cheap eBay intake with zip tie hanger. The filter will probably be relocated into the side pod at a later date.
- Silver coolant overflow tank
- ZeroDB AWIC core
- Crankcase breather
- Silver AWIC coolant reservoir

Also, just to the left of the crankcase breather you can see one of the rear brake proportioning valves. The reason these are in the rear is we sized up the rear rotors and calipers so the rears should have more braking force than the fronts. If you stuck with anything close to OEM brakes, you will want these up front. And the reason we have two is because we retained the Subaru ABS system which crosslinks the front right & rear left brakes in a single circuit.


https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137692&d=1605379236

[fletch]

- Here you can see the AWIC pump mounted vertically inside the left frame. Also, we mimicked Bob's idea with the bleeder hoses from the core to the reservoir.
- The heater hoses are front and center and route under the front of the transmission, then up the passenger side.
- In this photo you can see the two shifter cable brackets we fabbed to route the cables around the engine & trans. Although you can see the brackets, you can't really see the cables. I'll try to get a better pic of the cables soon. One bracket is at the very bottom edge of this picture just aft of the axle. It's a small piece of bent aluminum that keeps the cables from deflecting upward into the axle. The second bracket is painted blue and mounted to the bottom frame rail. In this pic you can see it between the brake flex line and the upper lateral link. The shifter cables themselves actually route under the left engine mount, jog around the exhaust manifold and then back through the firewall at the tunnel. Like I said, I'll try to get some better pics of the cables.


https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137693&d=1605379250

[fletch]

Not much to see here other than the AC hardlines and hoses. There are lots of hoses, cables & wires routed across the rear firewall. We spent hours securing everything in place to make sure they didn't bump the alternator & accessory belts.
Sideview of the two breakers also.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137694&d=1605379478

[fletch]

- From front to rear are: AC condenser, AWIC, and radiator. Originally we planned to use the radiator from our donor, but discovered numerous cracks during pressure testing (another good suggestion from Bob). We modified a two-way radiator cap (vent & vacuum) to eliminate both functions, meaning it always leaks into the overflow tube allowing trapped air to return to the degas tank via the tiny black hose. It took some effort to fully fill the coolant loop, then several (maybe 5?) heat/cool cycles to get all the air out. The OEM thermostat is still in place on the coolant pump intake.

- In the center is our front mount gas tank.
- The AC drier is on the left side behind the radiator. It's plumbed but not wired.
- On the front firewall to the left of the gas tank is the ABS module. We still need to design & 3d print brackets for the brake lines up here.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137695&d=1605379489
The heater exchanger triple-stack... makes me hungry for one of these.
137702

[fletch]

- The ECU panel - another design idea stolen from Bob. I would do two things differently (Bob did these things better). (1) Move the post terminals away from the edges so ring lugs could enter from both sides - top & bottom. (2) Keep the wire raceway a little farther from the ECU. As it is, it makes it hard to remove the ECU connectors.
- Isaac welded some square tube to the existing tunnel in that ramp fashion so the wires could exit the firewall directly to the tunnel. Also exiting the firewall are the e-brake cables (2) and the shifter cables. I'll get some better pics of that shortly. Note also that the rear of the e-brake bracket is mounted to the inclined portion of the square tube. This will hopefully enable usage of the OEM console, but we'll see about that.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137696&d=1605379500

[fletch]

I was really unhappy with the location of the steering wheel in several ways.
1) It's up too high.
2) It's too close to the driver.
3) The FFR steering wheel and space put the stalks very far away from the driver's hands.

For 1, we used some 1/4" pipe spacers and longer bolts to lower the column. Like so:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137098&d=1604369208

For 2, we compressed the column. I was under the impression that it would only allow 1-1/2" or so, but it went much further. I think we shortened it about 4".

For 3, I used a hack saw...
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137697&d=1605379520
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137699&d=1605379539
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137698&d=1605379528
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137700&d=1605379549

It took a lot of effort, but turned out pretty well. I may powdercoat it later.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Great Job!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bob_n_Cincy

[Ajzride]

I wish I had gone front mount gas tank.

I have a 3D printable spacer to drop the column and move it backwards, posted it to thingiverse if you need it.

[FFRWRX]

Really appreciate all the pictures. It is a great reference for things I haven’t done yet.

Rick

[roadrashrob]

[QUOTE=fletch;434237]I was really unhappy with the location of the steering wheel in several ways.
1) It's up too high.
2) It's too close to the driver.
3) The FFR steering wheel and space put the stalks very far away from the driver's hands.

Fletch,

My son and I are actually at FFR Build School as I write this, and seeing a lot of the features up close has made me really like some of you decisions in the build. Definitely considering the front mounted fuel tank for lots of reasons.

Question: where did you land the battery?

Assuming the fuel tank you went with was just a stock size from someone?

[fletch]

Hey Rob,
I’m glad my photos are helpful. I got the battery from Amazon. It was cheap and quick to arrive which checked the boxes for me. It’s a motorsports battery typically used for ATVs and the like. I can’t vouch for its quality or durability yet.
ExpertPower EXP12200 12 Volt 20... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00KC39BE6?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

The gas tank is a custom order from Boyd Motorsports but I didn’t purchase it. Bob_n_Cincy was the original owner of this kit and bought the tank from Boyd. He may be able to provide a part number or order number. If you need dimensions, I can certainly get those to you. LMK.

[roadrashrob]

Thanks Fletch. Where is the battery? Back by the engine?

Bob: The tank was total custom? Be interested to know what went into your decision and what specs you ended up with when ordering?

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Thanks Fletch. Where is the battery? Back by the engine?

Bob: The tank was total custom? Be interested to know what went into your decision and what specs you ended up with when ordering?

Here is a link to my gas tank design. This original design had a bolting filler neck. Boyd did not have that anymore so he changed it to a 6" tall welded in fill tube.
https://1drv.ms/b/s!AgduxxAs3q-xhBV6i_l0xqcBl2lX?e=INcBhD

[roadrashrob]

Awesome. Thank you!

[fletch]

The battery is right of the transmission just aft of the right axle.

[roadrashrob]

Two more questions with regards to the fuel tank. From bob's drawings, it looks like it has 4 "feet" at the bottom. How did you fasten it?

From the looks of it, and your comment that it isn't coming out, assuming you snuck it through the firewall before the sheet metal got installed.

My second question is around how you plan to fill the tank? Are you planning a fill neck on the fender, or just raise the hood at the gas station?

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Two more questions with regards to the fuel tank. From bob's drawings, it looks like it has 4 "feet" at the bottom. How did you fasten it?
From the looks of it, and your comment that it isn't coming out, assuming you snuck it through the firewall before the sheet metal got installed.
My second question is around how you plan to fill the tank? Are you planning a fill neck on the fender, or just raise the hood at the gas station?

I removed the bars in the bottom and installed it up through the bottom. see bottom view cad picture. I remove my hood to refuel.
I don't know how fletch will refill. Maybe access through the hood.
Bob

137915

[roadrashrob]

Interesting. I guess I'm a bit confused by the CAD. The bars in the bottom come front to back in a "V" there. Your mounts show parallel. Did you cut out the diagonals and replace with parallels, or install the parallels between the diagonals? (If that makes any sense to you!) :-)

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Interesting. I guess I'm a bit confused by the CAD. The bars in the bottom come front to back in a "V" there. Your mounts show parallel. Did you cut out the diagonals and replace with parallels, or install the parallels between the diagonals? (If that makes any sense to you!) :-)
I cut out the "V" and the battery tray.

[fletch]

I don't know how fletch will refill. Maybe access through the hood.


Not sure yet how we're going to refuel. I did buy the ZeroDB hood hinge kit so raising the hood will be easier than removing it...

[fletch]

This is a shot from just inside the passenger rear wheel. Gives a decent idea of where the shifter cables run under the motor mount and over the blue bracket (with unused fuel filler hose).
We'll probably replace those nylon zipties with stainless ones once we're happy everything works well.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137998&d=1605850865

A better angle of the firewall. There's at least 2.5" between the cables & exhaust header.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137999&d=1605850874

E-brake cable routing
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=138001&d=1605850894
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137997&d=1605850300
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=138000&d=1605850886

[roadrashrob]

Looks great!

[flynntuna]

I must give you props for your choices of colors on your build. It makes everything pop and showcases your excellent work.

[fletch]

I must give you props for your choices of colors on your build. It makes everything pop and showcases your excellent work.

That's very kind of you. Bob chose the frame color and we picked the blue to go with it. We're planning to run in the white gel coat with some wide vinyl stripes of both red and blue to complement.

[fletch]

We aren't so much dieting the Subaru harness as treating it like a parts bin... lots of wires, connectors, relays, etc. The chief purpose being there won't be any extraneous wires in the build... hopefully making troubleshooting easier. We'll see. It means a lot of work up front - figuring, sketching and testing. Here's an example of some work in progress. One functional headlight and DRL. The turn signals work too, we just didn't have one hooked up. All controlled via the stalk (& e-brake for DRLs) with appropriate indicators on the cluster. I plan to post the complete wiring diagram once it actually is complete.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=138042&d=1605986573

[fletch]

Anybody else out there get a little too curious and disassemble the Subaru clock spring?? Comes apart in a bunch of pieces and generally the ribbon cables get torn. At least, that was my experience.
We wanted a functional horn and like the idea of the OEM turn signal stalk resetting when the wheel returns to center. So, we fixed it. We only needed a single conductor to provide 12V for the horn. The other contacts on the cable were soldered in place for mechanical purposes.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=138637&d=1606886963

We couldn't have done it without the help of this website.
https://www.iwsti.com/threads/diy-steering-clockspring-fix.199354/

[Ajzride]

I tried to repair mine, but eventually bought a brand new one from China for less than $40.

[AZPete]

I adapted it to use the donor turn signal stalk and I used a paper clip for the horn contact. See Post #11 of this thread:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?30380-AZPete-s-818-Build-Finished-I-think

[fletch]

I tried to repair mine, but eventually bought a brand new one from China for less than $40.
It was fussy and took more than two hands to put everything where it belonged. I have a relatively small soldering iron tip which made the soldering feasible.


I adapted it to use the donor turn signal stalk and I used a paper clip for the horn contact. See Post #11 of this thread:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?30380-AZPete-s-818-Build-Finished-I-think
Our adapter didn’t have that kind of copper ring, and I’m not sure I would have wanted to wire it with 12V even if it did. Were you ever concerned about it shorting out?

[Frank818]

You made a lot of progress from a year ago, awesome!

I did similar thing on the steering column with the spacers, thank god I only needed to adapt that.

I also dismantled the coil spring and adapted it to work with the horn and self-cancelling turn signals. I had to modify the black plastic piece that turns and cancels the stalks but I don't remember on the horn, wasn't much of a mess anyway!

[Shawn818c]

How do you like the aluminum overflow bottles? I see you have one on the AWIC and one on the engine coolant. 1.6L?

[fletch]

How do you like the aluminum overflow bottles? I see you have one on the AWIC and one on the engine coolant. 1.6L?
The reservoirs are 1L and both are installed in a non-pressurized application. Here is the link to what I bought: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B086D291F6/
I wanted to use smaller diameter hoses and the female threads in the tanks were a straight metric thread. So I used JBWeld to bond these adapters wherever needed. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07RVC9BWY/
I also needed to lop off a few sections of the mounting plate to accommodate hose routings and threading in the 1/4" elbows. Simple because the tanks are aluminum.

[fletch]

...and JB-Weld doesn't cure in the garage. So, we're moving into the kitchen. <Insert photo of delighted wife here>
Honestly, she's cool with it... to a point. If I start bringing body panels in, we're gonna have a "conversation". :eek:

Spent a few hours with the headlight buckets, sealing them and epoxying the headlight mounts in place. Generally followed this thread (Thank you Blwalker105!):
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?21902-Making-the-New-Headlights-Watertight-and-Removable

The two buckets were clearly assembled by hand. The mounting flange for the headlights is glued into the bucket itself. Unfortunately, the flange on the left bucket was rotated differently from the right bucket, meaning the two headlights would not be rotated symmetrically to one another. [Ideally, we'd want them rotated so the low beam cutoff shutter was level. I settled for symmetrically rotated. -- maybe they're not level, but they'll both be canted inward the same amount. Hope that makes sense.] Consequently, the right bucket was far easier to deal with. It required zero modification, while the left bucket needed to have two of the holes that receive the headlight adjusters hogged out. Blwalker105 does a good job of describing this in his thread. On both buckets, I had to hog out the headlight holes a bit with a metal file. The glass portion of the lamps wouldn't insert easily/smoothly into the holes most likely due to misalignment between the bucket and the headlight mounting flange. I also had to dremel screwdriver slots into the screws since they didn't come that way from Hella.
Some pics...

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=140098&d=1609449155
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=140099&d=1609449261
Been experimenting with sourdough the past few weeks. My skills are improving!
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=140100&d=1609449277
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=140101&d=1609449285
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=140107&d=1609450533

[fletch]

Isaac made these clips for our build. 3D printed using PLA, 3 x 3/16" brake lines w/ 1/8" rivets.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=140096&d=1609449136

I'm a little concerned that the thickness of the rivet tabs isn't sufficient, but figured we'd try it as is. If it breaks, it's easy to fix.
I'd be willing to print some more if anyone else would find them useful. Isaac's may also design/print a bracket for 2 lines shortly. It's hard finding time in his schedule during vacation! ;)

[fletch]

We've gotten pretty good at draining & refilling the coolant system ... because we've had to fix so many leaks. :(

One of the royal pains was the radiator outlet. It was trapped inside the radiator frame. In order to open the drain we had to remove the radiator mounting brackets at the top, then shift the radiator up and forward.
So, we needed a solution. More JB-Weld and a few fittings along with a ball valve. We drilled a hole through the handle so we could safety-wire it in the closed position.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=140097&d=1609449144

[AZPete]

I'm trembling with all that clamping to granite in the kitchen! If I did that . . . when my wife was home . . . I'd be locked in the cold garage without the sour dough.
Those brake line mounts are very cool. I wish I needed some, but I'm past that stage.
And, you creatively solved the radiator drain problem that many of us had.
Nice work and thanks for posting it. Happy 2021.

[fletch]

. . . when my wife was home . . .
LOLLLLL!!!! Sounds like a story in need of sharing.

[fletch]

Somebody mentioned that cleaning up the parting lines was easier/quicker/cleaner with a cabinet scraper. "What's a cabinet scraper?", I asked.... google. It's a piece of metal with a burr on it that you drag over wood to smooth it. Like a plane, but pulled instead of pushed. Instructables.com helped show me how to make my own.

Old hacksaw blade and old 3/8" drive extension to create the burr. Press down hard and slide forward and rightward to create the burr on the "Starrett" side.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=140110&d=1609451884

Seems to work pretty well so far.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=140112&d=1609451893

Two-handed operation is best, but I needed a hand to operate the camera.

[fletch]

While tooling around the neighborhood a few days ago, Isaac hit the wrong pedal during a turn ... the turn went from a 90 to a 270 ... fortunately he entered a driveway, then hung the right front wheel over the curb. It could have been much worse. He blames his shoes... and inexperience, which shows a considerable level of self-knowledge and humility for which this dad is most grateful. We'll be looking to get some track time at our local speedway in the next few months, so both of us can learn our way around a mid-engine, rear wheel drive car. After all, it's our first ... in so many ways.

The damage:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=140125&d=1609462948

The souvenirs!
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=140124&d=1609462942

[Bob_n_Cincy]

While tooling around the neighborhood a few days ago, Isaac hit the wrong pedal during a turn ... the turn went from a 90 to a 270 ... fortunately he entered a driveway, then hung the right front wheel over the curb. It could have been much worse. He blames his shoes... and inexperience, which shows a considerable level of self-knowledge and humility for which this dad is most grateful. We'll be looking to get some track time at our local speedway in the next few months, so both of us can learn our way around a mid-engine, rear wheel drive car. After all, it's our first ... in so many ways.


Tiger drylac ral3020 - https://www.lvppaints.com/RAL-3020-12-Oz-Touch-Up-Paint.html

Bob

[idf]

While tooling around the neighborhood a few days ago, Isaac hit the wrong pedal during a turn ... the turn went from a 90 to a 270 ... fortunately he entered a driveway, then hung the right front wheel over the curb. It could have been much worse. He blames his shoes... and inexperience, which shows a considerable level of self-knowledge and humility for which this dad is most grateful. We'll be looking to get some track time at our local speedway in the next few months, so both of us can learn our way around a mid-engine, rear wheel drive car. After all, it's our first ... in so many ways.

The damage:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=140125&d=1609462948

The souvenirs!
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=140124&d=1609462942

Shortly after my sons got their driver's licenses I sent them to 3-4 day professional drivers schools. One went to Bondurant in AZ where he droves Vipers and formula Mazdas. The other to Jim Russell at Mt Tremblant where he drove Formula Mazdas including the car Lance Stroll learned in. Both learned a lot about driving and car control but perhaps more importantly respect for cars and driving.

[FFRWRX]

We've gotten pretty good at draining & refilling the coolant system ... because we've had to fix so many leaks. :(

One of the royal pains was the radiator outlet. It was trapped inside the radiator frame. In order to open the drain we had to remove the radiator mounting brackets at the top, then shift the radiator up and forward.
So, we needed a solution. More JB-Weld and a few fittings along with a ball valve. We drilled a hole through the handle so we could safety-wire it in the closed position.


That is a really good idea! I partially drained my system to plumb in a heater, and getting it to drain without it hitting the frame and splashing everywhere was really annoying. Then trying to put the plastic plug back in to stop the flow after partially draining it finished making the mess. So I think I will fully drain it and do something like you did.

Rick

[fletch]

With some guidance from Bob_n_Cincy, we put an old Sparkfun Pro Micro (arduino-type) board to use sequencing the turn signals. Here's the breadboard setup - very crude, but functional.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=141141&d=1611279530

And here's a link to one of the crappiest videos I've ever taken. Enjoy!
https://youtu.be/JYH6xlT72Wo

[fletch]

Thanks to K3LAG we're now at zero!
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=145295&d=1616973417

The soldering job is what I call "good enough" - not ideal, but plenty fine for our purposes. I work in aerospace and have seen some awesome hand work. I can't reproduce what others do regularly, and that's just fine. It takes hundreds of people with different skills to make a satellite work. Seems to be the case with this car too. Thanks again K3LAG!
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=145296&d=1616975451
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=145297&d=1616975465

Also "deleted" the airbag light while we were at it. That was simpler - two snips with a pair of nippers to remove the LED.

[roadrashrob]

Thanks to K3LAG we're now at zero!


K3LAG: Sent you a PM as I'd love to do the same!

[aquillen]

I'd trust you to do soldering for me....

[fletch]

Major thanks to JimLev for loaning me his powder coating setup.
Before (I forgot to take this pic before coating the first pair of brackets. Too eager to get started!):
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After:
145860

These pieces barely fit in the oven.
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[fletch]

Shiny bits.
Resurfaced flywheel and new Exedy clutch installed and waiting for a transmission.
146477146478146479

[fletch]

This is probably something that very few people will need to do. Our Arduino implementation for turn signals and DRLs requires an input from the parking brake so we can disable the DRLs when the parking brake is applied. In the OEM design, the parking brake switch grounds its input to chassis when enabled. In our version, the parking brake switch will operate as an input to the Arduino and we'd rather not ground the Arduino to chassis. Doing so would make it much more susceptible to any spurious currents running through the chassis from all sorts of other sources. So we need to isolate the switch electrically from the chassis. Here's what we did.

Here's the unaltered switch. The spade terminal is the "hot" or active side of the circuit. The little brass point (1 of 2) on the left side makes contact with the spade terminal. The current flows all the way up the shaft, then back through the spring, to the mounting bracket which is grounded through the parking brake frame.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=146480&d=1618717455

Next, we ground off the end of the shaft and threw away the brass pointy part, then assembled all the parts we'd need. A tiny bit of shrink tube, a 6-32 nut, a ring lug, and JBWeld (in the end we used JB Kwik because we're impatient.) We also adapted a binder clip to compress the spring during future steps.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=146482&d=1618717479

Putting female threads in a hole is called tapping. I know you use a die to put male threads on a rod. Is that called dying?
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=146481&d=1618717467

Missed a couple photos here. The steps are: 1) Assemble the switch with shaft & spring, and hold with binder clip. 2) Put a short section of shrink tube on the shaft. 3) Put ring lug on shaft. 4) Screw nut onto shaft. 5) Slide shrink tube down to the nut and heat it until shrunk (shrinked?) 6) With ring lug slid toward the nut and over the shrink tube, wrap a narrow strip of masking tape around the shaft to keep the JB Kwik from getting on the shaft past the shrink tube. 6) Apply JB Kwik to the top of the nut, then slide the ring lug down, keeping a narrow thickness of JB Kwik between the ring lug and the nut. 7) After the first cure time, trim any shrink tube that is above the ring lug. This will keep the plunger from traveling far enough to allow the ring lug to contact the spade terminal plate.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=146483&d=1618717489

Theory of operation: The shrink tube keeps the ID of the ring lug from contacting the plunger. The JB Kwik keeps it from contacting the nut. Instead of the spade terminal grounding to chassis, it contacts the ring lug and completes the circuit through it.
After the first cure time, add another layer especially at the end where the plunger rod protrudes from the nut. Add the wires and it looks something like this.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=146484&d=1618717497

Here's the finished product from two angles.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=146485&d=1618717504
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=146486&d=1618717513
It's a good idea to confirm isolation using an ohmmeter throughout the process. It will keep you from making mistakes.

[aquillen]

So what is more fun... assembling something handed to you or designing solutions and making yourself. (No wrong answer here actually)

[fletch]

So what is more fun... assembling something handed to you or designing solutions and making yourself. (No wrong answer here actually)

I like doing both, at different times. I've always enjoyed and learned from taking things apart and putting them back together. My wife swears that's how I fix most of the broken things around our house - just disassemble, then reassemble. She's got a point that several times, I've not found a root cause but the process seems to fix whatever was wrong - poor electrical contact or maybe just mechanical slippage that's improved by the rebuild.

[Ajzride]

Good solution there. I'm using an arduino for all of my lights and blinkers too, but sine my electric parking brake is controlled by the arduino I got to skip this step.

[fletch]

First and of highest importance is to say thanks to Rob T to helping us out in a major way. He made us a fantastic deal on his used gear set. Thank you, Rob. We are very grateful.
146677146678

One weird thing we noticed was the difference between the 5th-reverse selector setup of the two main shafts. Rob's followed the FSM exactly. Ours was missing a few parts.
146679
His version appears to have an actual synchro for reverse where ours was missing that completely. Oh well, maybe this will make for smoother shifts into reverse?!?

Rob's pinion gear was missing two teeth so we needed to swap in our old pinion gear & shaft. We beat on the nut & used plenty of heat, but still couldn't get it off, so...
146680

The case is prepped and shafts go in.
146681146682
Checking backlash & finger painting with the prussian blue.
146683146684

[fletch]

Completing the assembly
146685146686146687

The plan is to put it back in tomorrow night. Then we'll need to decide whether to get back to go-kart right away or to finish a few of the electrical clean up items we were working on. Most likely, we'll get it running again because driving it around the neighborhood is way more fun than cleaning up wires.

I should also say how grateful we are for Hindsight's LSD thread here: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?16706-Limited-slip-installation-instructions-with-pics
We would probably not have attempted the rebuild without it.

[Shawn818c]

how much did you pay for the gear set (if you don't mind). I have a 2nd trans with a blown 1st gear I would like to rebuild

[STiPWRD]

how much did you pay for the gear set (if you don't mind). I have a 2nd trans with a blown 1st gear I would like to rebuild

I've got a gear set from an 03 wrx sitting around collecting dust (I only needed the trans case), PM me if interested.

[aquillen]

Setting pinion - crown mesh - glad you went for it ?

[fletch]

Setting pinion - crown mesh - glad you went for it ?

Aside from feeling swoll, the benefits were probably nil. The shims as supplied with Rob T’s driven shaft were fine. I suppose finger painting with Prussian blue has its therapeutic benefits as well.

[fletch]

Transmission went back in with little fanfare... just in time to return the borrowed engine hoist. I think we had it for 18 months or so. Working on a car project is a great way to make friends!
147314147315147316

[fletch]

We're about a month past skiing season in New Mexico. You're probably thinking, "I thought New Mexico was the desert?!? Isn't it way down south?!" Yes, you're right. It's in the desert and it's pretty far south. However, altitude trumps both of those. When you're at 10,000 feet above sea level the snow flies and tends to stick around. But enough about that...

The REAL fresh powder is in the Fletch garage.
147321
Nuts on a string
147322
This was a case of stars aligning or what have you. JimLev loaned me his powder coating setup and I started to imagine all the uses for it. We had the transmission out so the rear suspension was pretty easy to get to... I even powder coated my coffee mug.

And then... as my wife can attest, I can't leave well enough alone. The painted brakes didn't match the powder coated suspension parts. Plus, they were chipped due to a few wheel removal/reinstall cycles. Of course, that won't suffice. So we stripped and powder coated them too.
147320

Right now I'm eyeing the front A arms and steering rack... Isaac's not happy with me. It's been weeks since he's been able to do burnouts in the neighborhood...

[fletch]

A few weeks ago roadrashrob asked about our steering situation - our use of an NRG quick disconnect with the OEM column, etc. Rob, this is my attempt to answer your questions. If I miss the mark, let me know and I'll post a follow up. Unfortunately, we won't be reinstalling the column for another week or two so all these pics are on the bench.

Here's our column setup in profile. The tips of the stalks are about 3.5" from the center line of the steering wheel. Not ideal, but better than where we started.
147651

Various stages of disassembly, showing the NRG hub and the adapter.
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Before and after of the adapter. I don't know for sure if this was a FFR-supplied item. It looks a bit different from others I've seen on the forum. It came with the kit when we bought it second-hand.
147653
147654

One consequence of all the stack up was to push the wheel too close to the driver for comfort. We compressed the column by pinching the larger OD tube in a vice and sliding the narrower tube & shaft toward the driver. We then extended and lowered the mount point using some plate steel, 1/4" pipe and 5/16" bolts. An unanticipated benefit of this arrangement was that it allowed us to shift the wheel to the left toward the center of the driver's body. We haven't fabbed up our dashboard and recognize the drop may cause issues with finishing around the upper part of the column... a problem for another day.
147650
147656

[roadrashrob]

Thanks Fletch! Exactly what I was looking for. Should help other builders as well.

[fletch]

My original post showing the adapter mod & column in place.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?33577-fletch-amp-son-s-build-thread&p=434237&viewfull=1#post434237

[fletch]

You wouldn't know it from our build thread, because I've not done a good job keeping up with all our work, but we're planning a track day in the next week or two. This will be our first shakedown of sorts and we're looking for input. What would you do? What would you test? What would you measure?

The car will eventually be more of a daily driver, but we'd like to iron several things out first.
Top on our list is brake bias. We've got the Subaru ABS system installed and it works well. A few hard stops from 30-35 mph have produced quick, but even stops. We plan to disable the ABS and dial down the pressure to the rear wheels with the proportioning valves until it's closer to neutral. Then re-enable the ABS. We don't have our final wheel & tire setup so this will be a preliminary brake balance.

What else should we be considering?

If I understand correctly, we may be sharing the track with others, but should have enough space to do more or less whatever we need to. There's a skidpad, a road course and an oval.
Thanks for the input.

[Rob T]

Fletch: If you are going to Sandia, be careful and take it easy. It's a fun track and the people there are great, but there is very little run off room. Trust me, I had a close encounter with a tire wall there when my brakes failed. Lots of turns with no real place for the brakes to cool. I think my mistake was running with some "old" brake fluid. One thing to do for sure is to make sure your fluid is fresh.

[fletch]

Thanks for the reminder Rob. We plan to ease into it. Not really running the track all out or anything near it. Probably just running at auto cross speeds checking various attributes of the car.

[fletch]

I spent a LOT of time tidying up some of the shortcuts we took late last year to get to go kart. One big area was the wiring. Initially we planned to locate our single fuse box in the front of the tunnel facing the passenger footwell. While trying to clean some of the old wiring up, I decided it was too much trouble to keep it there. So I moved the fuse box up above the dash frame and called JimLev for a battery cable extension. It was so much easier to work with the fuse box in this position. There's still a bit of a mess up in the dash, but we're not done yet. Still to be done: head unit/radio + speakers, seat heater wiring, auto AC panel from Subaru (trying to modify this to drive the Vintage Air temperature control), Arduino for turn signal/DRL control + SSM to CANBUS conversion to display ECU info to the head unit.
Before:
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After:
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Very happy the headlight wiring is in and tested, the cruise control wiring is in (not tested), and we have the harness to the rear bumper fabbed nearly ready to install.

[fletch]

Remember how I said the powdercoating tools from JimLev were calling my name, begging me to be used on the front brakes and suspension, those parts that had countless nicks in the paint from our wayward wrenches? Well, I broke down and tore the front apart. A full brake teardown, tie rods spun off the steering rack, pressed bushings out of LCAs... well not actually. Those darn bushings wouldn't come free even after I'd used all manner of heat and pressure (plus a big hammer). You can't bake those things at 400 F. So, what to do? Ebay!
Before
148724

After
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I didn't take any photos of the completed brakes or steering setup, but they look much nicer and aren't going to mind a brake fluid splatter or incident abuse from a dropped wrench.

[fletch]

We purchased some foam blocks for inside the gas tank to reduce sloshing. While installing that, I took a look at our fuel pump given the recent issues others have experienced with the pump output hose coming loose. Here's what I found:
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All is still well as we originally built it. We cut the OEM pump bracket and inserted a piece of steel. We used two self-tapping screws to secure the assembly along with a healthy dab of JB Weld. A stainless hose clamp keeps the pump in place. So far so good!

[fletch]

And finally, we're back to go kart stage once more. So much good stuff. A transmission that shifts easily into 2nd, front wheel wells, STI LCAs installed in the outer holes so zero rubbing of the front tires. Some insulation in the rear firewall... too much to remember.
148728

[roadrashrob]

We purchased some foam blocks for inside the gas tank to reduce sloshing.

Where did you get your fuel blocks from? They are on my list, but there seems to be a lot of variation in price in what I’ve seen

[fletch]

Where did you get your fuel blocks from? They are on my list, but there seems to be a lot of variation in price in what I’ve seen

https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Fuel-Cell-Anti-Slosh-Safety-Foam-Tank-Baffle-Inserts-14x4x6-Each,52163.html

Bought 6, only needed 4.

[fletch]

Finished our first alignment today. Still on donor wheels & tires. 17x7 +42 offset w/ 225/45 R17s all around.
Used this fantastic thread. https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?24402-Alignment-Process-for-the-818S
And this reference: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?12282-alignment-specs&p=126682&viewfull=1#post126682
Final specs
Ride height 4.5"
Rear:
Toe: 3/16" total
Camber: -0.5 deg

Front:
Aluminum LCAs in outer mounting holes
Toe: 1/16" total
Camber: -1.0 deg
Caster: R 5.1 deg, L 5.5 deg

[fletch]

This car’s going to be a handful.
148919

2.5L from 2006 WRX
TD04-19T turbo and Grimmspeed EBCS
91 octane

Our tuner also remapped the DBW pedal inputs to make it much smoother at tip in. Very streetable—up to a point.

[PhilO]

Looking forward to seeing it drive by me in ABQ sometime in the near future!

[fletch]

This car’s going to be a handful.
148919

2.5L from 2006 WRX
TD04-19T turbo and Grimmspeed EBCS
91 octane

Our tuner also remapped the DBW pedal inputs to make it much smoother at tip in. Very streetable—up to a point.

...and that very night, Dad insisted on installing the seatbelts.
148959148960

These are wagon belts modified per this post. https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?34765-Converting-wagon-seatbelts-to-sedan-location

I realized the sedan location wasn't going to work for a number of reasons. The wagon spool mechanism would not fit in the FFR-provided sedan slot/bolt hole combo - maybe this was a difference in the wagon hardware itself. Even if we modified it to work, the webbing would exit the spool off-axis. To accommodate the mounting shown, we had to flip the seatbelts' webbing 180 deg in the buckle and the upper mount. Very happy with this solution for the time being.

There was a concern raised a while ago about retraction issues. When you pull the belt out all the way, a ratcheting mechanism engages requiring the belt to be retracted most of the way before it disengages. Other builders reported that their configuration wouldn't allow enough retraction to disengage the ratcheting mechanism unless they unbolted the outer mount point. We have plenty of travel in our belts so this isn't a problem.

[fletch]

You wouldn't know it from our build thread, because I've not done a good job keeping up with all our work, but we're planning a track day in the next week or two. This will be our first shakedown of sorts and we're looking for input. What would you do? What would you test? What would you measure?

The car will eventually be more of a daily driver, but we'd like to iron several things out first.
Top on our list is brake bias. We've got the Subaru ABS system installed and it works well. A few hard stops from 30-35 mph have produced quick, but even stops. We plan to disable the ABS and dial down the pressure to the rear wheels with the proportioning valves until it's closer to neutral. Then re-enable the ABS. We don't have our final wheel & tire setup so this will be a preliminary brake balance.

What else should we be considering?

If I understand correctly, we may be sharing the track with others, but should have enough space to do more or less whatever we need to. There's a skidpad, a road course and an oval.
Thanks for the input.

Me again, requesting more input. Thanks!

[blomb11]

Thinking off the top of my head here if I was in your shoes. I am not sure what kind of data logging abilities you have like a Cobb AP or something else.

1. Checking and adjusting the braking bias as you mentioned. Bedding the pads and bleeding the brakes after they get hot to make sure no air is in the system.
2. Measuring tire temperatures across the width of the tires to check your tire pressure, alignment, and suspension settings. This could tell you if you need to adjust the camber, shock stiffness, etc.
3. Keep it to 80% max power while shaking things down definitely hard to do as I would probably mash the throttle :D. Get it hot so running a session at 80% for ~10min or so to be able to look at all of your engine parameters oil pressure, oil temp, coolant temp, intake temps, DAM, knock, fueling, etc. This can tell you how things like your intake position is doing to get cold air into the engine and making sure your cooling systems are work as intended.
4. Checking the oil and fuel system to make sure there is no starvation under high G turns since this has been a complaint of many 818 builders.
5. Checking to see how your seat, steering wheel, and shifter all feel under HPDE driving conditions and if any adjustments are needed. This may be OBE if street driving is the main focus.
6. Post session full inspection of the engine and cooling systems to make sure there are no leaks or other issues.

Have fun! Can't wait to be in your shoes one day...still counting down the days to my delivery.

[fletch]

Thanks for the thoughtful reply.
1) Definitely step 1. ABS is wired & fully functional but we plan to disable when setting brake bias then reenable to keep ourselves from trouble.
2) Wve got a cheap IR gun for this purpose. We will probably also try the shoe polish technique as well to verify contact patches.
3) 80% - roger that. We have a Cobb AP and will be logging but we’re new to it. We also may have access to BTSSM logging via Tactrix cable to an Android phone. Not sure if that offers any benefits like increased sampling rates. We’re still at go kart stage so intake plumbing is not representative.
4) I’m not sure how to do this. I assume we may encounter The same oiling problems others have found because we are running an OEM oil pan without any baffling. Fueling will probably not be an issue because we have a front mount tank with fuel foam installed. I’d appreciate thoughts on how to monitor these things.
5) Thanks for this suggestion. We won’t be doing any HPDE events but checking ergonomics is an excellent idea.
6) is there anything other than a close visual inspection that you would recommend?

Again, huge thanks for the feedback.

[blomb11]

I have only used the Cobb AP for data logging so you can just go in a select all of the ECU parameters you want. I am not sure about sample rates probably just comes down to how much data you want to collect.

Yea true #4 is kinda hard you would probably feel it while driving around the track at speed. You could also verify by looking through your post run data logs to see if there were any sharp changes in oil/fuel pressure.

I was thinking 6 would just be a visual inspection to make sure there are no oil leaks, coolant leaks, or brake fluid leaks. Just a visual to see if there are any issues after pushing the car a bit. Kind of all things I would check, but maybe someone else has some clever tricks.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Brian,
I think the normal stuff you already know.
Keep an eye on fuel, oil, and coolant fluid levels and temps.
Double-check hose clamp tightness after heat cycles. I blew a radiator hose off during the 4th session of the day.
Watch lug nut torque. I have snapped off quite a few of the OEM types.
Watch suspension and body roll.
This video shows how much engine movement and how much front suspension travel. The more cameras the better;


https://youtu.be/9cPHXm8AXkc

[Frank818]

Brian,

On top of what was said, watch for
1- Clamps loosening up
2- Bolts (any!) loosening up
3- Wiring, any weird signs, heat, sounds, electrical issues, rubbing
4- All suspension parts
5- Exhaust, leaks, loosening up
6- Spark plugs
7- Check your seats anchor points to make sure bolts didn't loosen up, I guess you used bolts there


Are we going to get a video of that track day? :)
Just saying... :)

[Sgt.Gator]

Most tracks have a broomstick test for open top cars. Also depending on the organization hosting the event they may have their own broomstick test. Enforcement of the rule varies greatly. Be sure to check both the track and the organization's rules about convertible top cars. So asap have the tallest driver sit in the car with a helmet on and do the broomstick test. Compare the results to the requirements.
You don't want to go all the way to the track to be told to go home because you don't pass their requirements. Do a google search for HPDE Convertible Rules and you will find how different they can be!

Example, HPDE at NCCAR with the Tidewater Sports Car Club:
"All convertible/open top vehicles must be able to pass the broomstick test. The broomstick test involves laying a wooden dowel/broomstick/etc across the windshield frame and the roll bar with the driver seated in their normal position and wearing their helmet. The driver must have 2in of clearance between the dowel and their helmet. NOTE: If you have a non-production-based vehicle/kit car and cannot prove that the windshield frame is a structural item (letter from the manufacturer stating so), the broomstick test will be performed to the front shock tower/structural chassis point instead of the windshield frame."

My Note: If they require 2" above the helmet for kit cars like our 818 running from the roll bar to front shock tower/structural chassis point there is no 818 that will pass that test unless the driver is 4' tall.

Example BMW Car Club Boston: "Convertibles: have a retractable top, whether soft-top or folding hard-top. Convertibles additionally require:
1. An approved roll bar or roll cage where both driver and instructor sitting up right with helmets are below the top of the roll bar.
2. A 5- or more point harnesses for both driver and instructor, with belts properly routed.
3. Arm restraints."

Example: Lime Rock Driver's Club: "For members and guests protection, The Club does not allow convertibles without rollover protection to participate on-track. Factory fitted rollover systems including pop-up systems, such as those on the M3 convertible, Mini Cooper, Boxster, Carrera TT, S2000, Audi TT, 350Z, Z4, Z8, etc are allowed. All factory fitted systems must meet the “broom handle test” which measures whether the head, and helmet fit below a line formed from the top of the rollover bar to the top of the dashboard. For convertibles without factory rollover protection, a four point, structural roll bar that meets SCCA GCR guidelines for Solo 1 is mandatory."


And separate from whatever the track or organizational rules say, my personal opinion is you have to pass the broomstick test period. To perform the broomstick test have the tallest driver sit in the car in driving position. Lay one end of a "broomstick" on the roll bar, the other end on the top of the steel dash hoop. If the stick contacts the driver's helmet it's a fail.

[JimLev]

Fletch, you should be fine. A friend that has been to this track a few times has a TVR convertible. He’s a big guy, his helmet is way above the top of the windshield frame. No roll bar in his car either.

[fletch]

Gator,
Thanks for the reminder. Our track time won’t be a sanctioned event, just some test and tine time when we get to sort things out. As JimLev said, the regulations at the track are lax regarding test & tune. I’ve already cleared our setup with the owner so we shouldn’t run into problems. The experiences you and others have shared here allowed me to ask all those questions up front.

Frank,
There will be data logs and multiple camera angles on board. We should have at least two cameras running and maybe a third. Some of our mount points shown here.
149183

[Frank818]

Brian, your rear lower lateral links painted in blue, do you like them?
I'm asking cuz my fore one is extremely hard to adjust and tighten the nuts properly cuz too close to the mounting points. I see yours have nuts right in the middle of the links or so, making them super easy to adjust, am I correct?

If yes and they work well (might wait after that track day just in case), I'm gonna source a set, probably not in blue as I think you painted them but that's fine.
They are the same all 4 or have different specs?


tnx

[fletch]

Brian, your rear lower lateral links painted in blue, do you like them?
I'm asking cuz my fore one is extremely hard to adjust and tighten the nuts properly cuz too close to the mounting points. I see yours have nuts right in the middle of the links or so, making them super easy to adjust, am I correct?

If yes and they work well (might wait after that track day just in case), I'm gonna source a set, probably not in blue as I think you painted them but that's fine.
They are the same all 4 or have different specs?
tnx

Hi Frank,
All four lateral links are the same design. Here's a link to them. https://www.spcalignment.com/component/spc/?task=part_description&pid=67640&region=USA&make=Subaru&model=WRX&year=2006%20-%202006&from=USAFrom&to=USATo

I pressed out the bushings & powder coated them blue.

[roadrashrob]

Hi Frank,
All four lateral links are the same design. Here's a link to them. https://www.spcalignment.com/component/spc/?task=part_description&pid=67640®ion=USA&make=Subaru&model=WRX&year=2006%20-%202006&from=USAFrom&to=USATo

I pressed out the bushings & powder coated them blue.

Frank: Check Rock Auto. Mine are Moog but look identical and were about half the price: https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=5792217&cc=1426801&pt=10401&jsn=769

[Frank818]

Hi Frank,
All four lateral links are the same design. Here's a link to them. https://www.spcalignment.com/component/spc/?task=part_description&pid=67640&region=USA&make=Subaru&model=WRX&year=2006%20-%202006&from=USAFrom&to=USATo

I pressed out the bushings & powder coated them blue.

Hmm, something just not add up... On your pic, which are the real deal I know, the nuts seem quite way off the rotating joints (forgot the name!) on each end, your nuts (lateral links' nuts!!) seem to be way off the mounting points, making it easy to fit a wrench. But on the pic from your link (same goes with radrashrob's pic), those nuts seem to be very close to one edge. Is it just that the pix on the links aren't truly true? That's common on car parts, just want to make sure how yours really are.

Brian do you have other pix of your lateral links on one of your threads?

I should have taken a pic while I was in the garage, but my problem is on one rod the nuts are so close to the rotating joints that fitting a wrench interferes with either the trailing arm or the FFR mounting brackets. On the engine side I cannot fit a wrench and need to stick a big screwdriver while I twist the rod in order to tighten the nut, that doesn't make any sense and it's quite inefficient.



Frank: Check Rock Auto. Mine are Moog but look identical and were about half the price: https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=5792217&cc=1426801&pt=10401&jsn=769

Ha you're right, they look identical at half the price! :) Tnx for that! Makes them a no-question-purchase, dependent on my above question.

[fletch]

Frank,
Maybe this will help.
149255
The adjustment nut + 2 jam nuts are about 6.25 inches. My starting length (before alignment adjustments) was 16-13/16” center to center.

[fletch]

If you want to watch Isaac driving around our neighborhood for 30+ minutes using a variety of camera angles, you just got your wish!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KE-EuT57bgk&feature=youtu.be

[Frank818]

Your son must be thrilling as hell driving such a go-kart! :)
What are his impressions, actually?

[Frank818]

Frank,
Maybe this will help.
149255
The adjustment nut + 2 jam nuts are about 6.25 inches. My starting length (before alignment adjustments) was 16-13/16” center to center.

That is a wonderful pic Brian! Clearly the jam nuts are located much more towards the center of the rod rather one nut close to the rotating joint as we see on the website pictures, but that's fine, often website pix have illustrations that vary a little from the real deal.

I may buy just one set and replace my front arms only, those are the ones very inconvenient to adjust with my current arms and had loose nuts too often already.

Thanks a lot!!

[FFRWRX]

If you want to watch Isaac driving around our neighborhood for 30+ minutes using a variety of camera angles, you just got your wish!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KE-EuT57bgk&feature=youtu.be

Very cool video. I love how everything is strapped to the dash. There is something bouncing around the drivers side shock; looks like a large washer.

[fletch]

Your son must be thrilling as hell driving such a go-kart! :)
What are his impressions, actually?
Oh, he's happy. He tries to drive it every day now. More Friday once we go to the track.


Very cool video. I love how everything is strapped to the dash. There is something bouncing around the drivers side shock; looks like a large washer.
Yeah, the dash needs lots of clean up. I'll take care of that this summer. The white washer is some sort of plastic split ring. I'm not really sure of its purpose. There's one on each Koni, but front left is the only one that bounces around.

[fletch]

We have 3 ways to log ECU data.
1) Cobb Accessport V3
2) Tactrix cable to Android phone with BtSSM app via on-the-go cable
3) Cheap Amazon OBD2 to USB cable to Android phone with BtSSM app via on-the-go cable

I took a little time tonight to compare performance of the 3 configurations. Really, just 2 data points. Below are the average sample intervals in milliseconds

Logging 17 data fields:
Cobb: 96ms
Tactrix: 71ms
Amazon: 74ms

Logging 7 data fields:
Cobb: 43.8 ms
Tactrix: 45.9 ms
Amazon: 47.2ms

I found the results interesting. During the first test the Cobb was showing "10 Hz sampling" on the screen. During the second it showed "20 Hz sampling" which makes me think Cobb does some sort of nearest integer math to schedule requests to the ECU. I was expecting the Tactrix cable to win this comparison in all cases, but that's clearly not my experience. Given the ease of use of the Cobb setup and the fact that the USB-C port on our phone is intermittent, I'm not going to bother with either Android phone setup on Friday.

If anyone has an interest, here's a link to the OBD2 cable I'm using.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00K6498D0/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
And here's the OTG cable.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07BS8SRWH/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Brian, Thanks for doing this test. To add another data point to your testing.
Running my Bluetooth BtSSM OBDii module to my Galaxy S7 phone running BtSSM, I datalog 25 data fields at 13HZ or 77ms.
Bob

[aquillen]

These last two posts need to also be on the electrical/engine threads for easier to find ref. I know of guys on the forum who rarely read down into individual builds, but would more than likely look for this in the dedicated groups. Good stuff to know about.

[fletch]

These last two posts need to also be on the electrical/engine threads for easier to find ref. I know of guys on the forum who rarely read down into individual builds, but would more than likely look for this in the dedicated groups. Good stuff to know about.
I will combine and repost later today.

[fletch]

Way back on June 11 we went to our local track to get some practice.
Too much detail to recall. Funny how the mind gets flooded when adrenaline kicks in.

We got to the track around 8 and began our first lap around 8:30. Temperature was 80F and heading to 95F so I wanted to be done by noon.

Tires - 22 psi all around, nearly even tread at 7/32"

Bedded the brakes - no drama, but it was fun to see how quickly this thing moved us. It stops quicker than anything we’ve been in outside of a roller coaster.
Adjusted bias by dialing down the rears quite a bit. We have the 2006 WRX front brakes (293mm, 4-pot calipers) and the 2004 forester front calipers mounted to the rear backing plates with DBA rotors (316mm rotors, 2-pot calipers) so we knew the rears were going to lock up first... and they did. It took us 5 or 6 tries to get them roughly balanced. At which point we turned ABS back on and felt 2-3 wheels pulsating during heavy braking. I figured that was about as good as we were going to get it.

Spent some time exploring what happens when the rear tires lose grip. I had Isaac driving around a turn attempting to get the rear loose. He learned pretty quickly how to make adjustments. But we both need some more time to feel where the edge is. It’s an unsettling feeling when the car starts to rotate out from under you. We need more opportunities to make it happen safely. We don’t have much video from our first track day because after a little while, I put it into the weeds. Unfortunately our sideways slide through the loose New Mexican soil produced what Isaac called a “dirt wave” - a veritable breaker of dust, dirt, and rocks. Afterward we vacuumed what must have been >30 pounds of dirt out of the car. We had to take numerous bits apart to get as much out as we could.

Some choice photos:
152281152282152283152284

Despite the mess, we had a fantastic time. And learned that the loose nuts behind the wheel require the most attention. The car worked wonderfully.

[Rob T]

I feel your pain. Early in my 818R experience, I used my car as a bulldozer at Buttonwillow where the track turned sharply right and I kept going straight. No damage, save to my pride, wounded even more as I looked like Pig Pen from the Peanuts driving back to the paddock. I too, got good use out of my vacuum. One small advantage was that the body was on my car....

I'm happy you are both OK, but happier you now have more track fun to look forward to.

[J R Jones]

Fletch, You might also check the tires for debris. My tires have ingested dirt sliding sideways without losing all the pressure. Rock and Roll and rattle.
jim

[fletch]

After a thorough vacuuming, including removal of the heat/AC unit, we took the car back to the track. This time we brought some cones and kept it below 40 mph, mostly. It was a very fun and very informative day. We feel much more comfortable driving at the limit now. However, when the boost pressure starts to ramp up things get out of hand quickly. By keeping it below 40 we avoided most of the drama. The car was rock solid, though the body roll was very obvious to us when watching each other drive. So much roll that the fronts and rears both go into positive camber - not good. We'll be looking for stiffer springs soon.
Me:
https://youtu.be/WX3-rY2v_mI
Isaac:
https://youtu.be/tQ7KnpqJPbQ

[Rob T]

Glad you had a successful day and won't be needing the vacuum :rolleyes:. Seeing Sandia brought back some memories....

[Jetfuel]

Great video of you two, sure looked like a lot of fun
Will the added weight of the body minimize the roll???

Jet

[fletch]

Great video of you two, sure looked like a lot of fun
Will the added weight of the body minimize the roll???
I suspect it would make the roll worse, increasing the moment of inertia about the longitudinal centerline.

[JimLev]

Can you add sway bars? That would help reduce the body roll a lot.

[fletch]

Can you add sway bars? That would help reduce the body roll a lot.

That definitely would help, but that ship sailed when we chose to use a front gas tank for more cabin room.

[J R Jones]

Fletcherson, breathe and realize the voids in the space frame, open your mind. Be one with the anti-roll bar.
Actually making the rear anti-roll bar fit the front is clever, but like the steering geometry, it is a compromise and a greenfield for improvement.
BTW Isaac has no fear of cones.
jim

[roadrashrob]

Fletch, as you know I followed you and went with a front mounted tank as well. I haven't had the chance to drive mine to the point yet of determining roll, but I did leave the geometry such that a "straight" anti-roll bar could still hit the FFR mounts and pass just above the tank. My thought was that if I decide I need the extra roll control, they make them with splined ends and arms for the links so it is not out of the question to add. I'm definitely studying your videos as we should be go-karting ours in another week or so. I'm assuming ours will perform identical to yours. We were all ready to go when our brand new wideband O2 sensor died. Not giving me the warm and fuzzies for Innovate Products given all we've done so far was laid down the base tune. At least it stayed functioning for that.

[Sgt.Gator]

What are your static camber settings? What springs are you running?

[fletch]

Ride height 4.5"
Rear:
Toe: 3/16" total
Camber: -0.5 deg

Front:
Aluminum LCAs in outer mounting holes
Toe: 1/16" total
Camber: -1.0 deg
Caster: R 5.1 deg, L 5.5 deg

275# springs front
350# rear

[Sgt.Gator]

Those suspension specs are not going to work well on the track. No wonder you think it rolls too much and the camber goes positive!
Many of the track focused R builds don't use sway bars. I ran with a front bar for awhile, then removed it. Mitch has the front bar and likes it. Here's Mitch's setup for comparison:

"2.6 front camber
6* caster
0 toe
350# spring
3/4 OD .095 front sway bar
3.5" ride height
2.75 rear camber
3/16 toe in
500# springs
3.75 ride height
A number of other R's that are running have been using higher spring rates 400-550 front and 600-700 rear without sway bars with success. Personally I have found the softer spring rates and front bar work well for me. "

Hobby & I run very similar setups but with higher spring rates, 500 F, 700R.
Bob-_n_Cincy runs 350F, 600R.

And finally:
Dave Smith's FFR 818R at UTCC VIR setup and driven by Wayne Pressley:
500 fr springs, 750 rear
Front:
-3° camber
+6° caster
0 toe
.015 bump out per side
Rear:
-2.8° camber
3/16 toe in
.015" roll steer in
No sway bar.
225/40/17 and 255/35/18 Hoosier A7's on 17x9 and 18x9.5" wheels

[fletch]

Thanks for the feedback. Lots to think over here.

[roadrashrob]

Thanks for the feedback. Lots to think over here.

Ditto from me!

[Frank818]

Hey Brian,

I have questions yet again on your RLLLs (rear lower lateral links, way too long to write).

How do they work, I mean how's the bushing working? They don't seem to have any up/down movement as the ends don't swivel like mines. I put the end on a vice and jiggled with it but it wouldn't budge, so how can they flex up and down following suspension movement?

Are yours like this?

154071

[fletch]

Hi Frank,
That bushing looks exactly like the ones on my RLLLs. It's not designed to allow much rotation between the long bolt that runs through the Subaru wheel hub and the links themselves, but I do think that's how they're designed to work - as the wheel moves up/down, the long bolt and the center metal part of the bushing rotate within the large diameter of the RLLL. It's not much movement, but I think that's how it must work. There's definitely no twisting like a Heim joint.
If that doesn't help or make sense, bounce back. I'll have the suspension apart in the next week or two and would be happy to take some photos of the wheel in various positions.

[J R Jones]

Hey Brian,

I have questions yet again on your RLLLs (rear lower lateral links, way too long to write).

How do they work, I mean how's the bushing working? They don't seem to have any up/down movement as the ends don't swivel like mines. I put the end on a vice and jiggled with it but it wouldn't budge, so how can they flex up and down following suspension movement?

Are yours like this?

154071

I have similar lateral rods with rod ends on the inner pivot. When the rod swings the rubber in the outer end goes into shear. Not much rotation, and it is good for NVH.
jim

[JimLev]

Fletch, my 540 has the same kind of bushings on the suspension. The long bolt thru them is only tightened when the weight of the car is on the suspension.
I should take a ride over your hose sometime to check on your progress. I’ve started to paint my hotrod.

[Frank818]

Tnx a lot, guys! :)

After much thinking I have bought what I should have bought 7 years ago, a bench belt/disc sander, so I will shave 2-3mm off of the metal portion to make them fit within the narrow FFR mount brackets (had to do the same with my current RLLLs). I will try them, maybe that's how it's supposed to be and maybe it will change how the rear suspension behaves?

The front LCAs are also like that, so why not the rears... :)

As long as you don't need to move your rear wheels fwd or backwards within the wells. Those metal inner sleeves and rubber bushings prevent a lot of swivel back and front for wheel alignment within the wheel well. Or so it seems, maybe it isn't that bad when you tighten the bolts and put force on them.

[Rob T]

New tools are the best, especially when they are the right tools for the job....congrats on a worthy shop addition.

[J R Jones]

Frank, I do not know if you have fitment interference, but I am apprehensive about opening the assembly tolerance.
If you do not achieve design clamp load, the fasteners may loosen and the fastener holes will elongate.
jim

[Frank818]

Frank, I do not know if you have fitment interference, but I am apprehensive about opening the assembly tolerance.
If you do not achieve design clamp load, the fasteners may loosen and the fastener holes will elongate.
jim

Total fitment interference, yes. There is no way standard RLLLs fit within the FFR support brackets (close to the gearbox in the center of the frame), by about 2mm too wide if I recall. I needed to shave off to reduce the width of my current RLLLs (heim joints) and the exact same fitment issue is seen on the completely different style Moog OEM replacements. I wasn't the only one with this fitment issue I wonder if it was on earlier chassis and fixed later on.

That being said, Brian would have had that issue too but it seems not! Which is very intriguing.

Clamping load is the one recommended by FFR, which is 75lbs.

[fletch]

Isaac and I thought sequential turn signals would be cool. So I bought some dual color LEDs and got an Arduino from JimLev and set to work. Here's the finished hardware.
155869155871155872155870155873

It's spaghetti, but it all functions as desired. Also on the bottom red PCB are the MC33660 SSM to Serial chip from AJ which allows reading ECU data into the Arduino, plus several additions suggested by Bob_n_Cincy & AJ (solid state relays for interfacing with the 12V circuits, for example).
I learned a lot on this sub-project. Initially I was planning to design a custom PCB, but someone suggested these solderable breadboards as an alternative. I had a few lying around and decided that would be much easier and faster.

Here's a look at the turn signals, DRLs, & headlights.
https://youtu.be/TOZCr1YLX8g

[fletch]

Programming the Arduino to operate the DRLs and turn signals was initially fairly challenging. I'm neither a software engineer nor an electrical engineer so there was LOTS of trial and error. I borrowed some code from someone online, but eventually needed to rewrite it from scratch to function the way I wanted. One challenge was creating the "tap" behavior. I wanted to be able to tap the stalk up or down and get a few blinks as when signalling a lane change. The Subaru stalk wasn't made for this, but I found that the switch contacts closed reliably when the stalk was moved toward the right/left positions even before the mechanical latch was engaged. So, the input control would work. In order to detect a tap, I needed to measure the duration of the ON pulse from the stalk. If it was less than 1 second, it was a tap and the Arduino would perform 4 blinks. Once I figured out how to get the code to properly identify a tap, the code came together pretty quickly.

I also wanted to be able to read some ECU parameters and display them. I am deeply indebted to AJ for giving me the idea and providing his code and troubleshooting help. See his thread here. https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?34088-Subaru-SSM-to-Can-Bus-Convertor-DIY

I developed a separate set of code, heavily based off AJ's work and was able to get data from the ECU and send it to an Android head unit running the RealDash app. Though this took a few weeks, I was happy with the results of both sets of code - turn signals & ECU data read and display.

Then I tried to put them together... copy/pasted it all into a single Arduino 'sketch' (Arduino's term for a software project). Nothing worked right anymore. And I mean nothing. The blinker sequences were sluggish and jagged, the ECU reads weren't happening at all. Why was this? It took several trial and error and debug cycles to figure out that things were just too slow.

The Arduino runs at 16 MHz which is plenty fast for what I'm doing so the issue wasn't the hardware, it was the software. Each function (operate turn signals, request data from ECU, read data from ECU, send data to headunit) had been written in a 'blocking' manner which means each function in code would keep every other function from operating while it was doing its thing. The microcontroller in an Arduino is a pretty simple device, only able to do a single thing at a time and only performing the same thing over and over again. It's not like our fancy PCs that can do more than one thing at once and assign priorities to various tasks.

As an example, the slowest operation here is requesting and reading data from the ECU. It runs at 4800 baud or 4.8 kHz. Sending a request to the ECU involves writing 61 bytes of data. Receiving the response includes the echoed command (61 bytes) plus the ECU's response with the data requested (18 bytes). With all the overhead and latency, it turned out ending and receiving took ~150 ms. This was a problem particularly for the turn signals which turn on in 100 ms increments. If an ECU transaction takes 150 ms during which the turn signals can't be updated, the turn signals will look like garbage... and they did. So I needed to learn how to rewrite all the code in a non-blocking fashion to allow what amounts to interleaving of the various functions. For an embedded software programmer, this is no big deal. For me, this was probably a month's work.

Taking the example further, instead of sending 61 bytes sequentially then waiting for a reply, I wrote the code to write a single byte to the ECU if the outgoing transmission buffer was empty, keeping track of how many bytes had been sent. Then all the other functions got a chance to do whatever they needed to do (in a similarly non-blocking fashion). During the next loop through the code, the next byte would be written to the ECU if the prior byte had been sent. Reading data from the ECU happens similarly. Each loop, check to see if there is any data available to read. If there is, write it into the proper position in an array and increment the pointer so the next byte is placed in its proper place. Essentially, the functions had to become atomic, only doing the next incremental step of the process when various resources or data were available. This was a massive overhaul of the code.

But with perseverance I got it running. The code is still pretty ugly and I'm trying to clean it up a bit. But now the main loop runs every ~150 microseconds. That means it can take action on turn signal inputs or enable/disable an LED every 150 microseconds. The 100 millisecond stagger for the sequential turn signals is no problem for a loop running that fast.

Anyway, this post is a bit of a victory lap for me. It feels good to have accomplished this.
I'm happy to share the code and my hand-drawn schematics with anybody, though I don't anticipate there will be much demand. And I'm sure there are easier ways to get a similar or even cooler look. But I have the satisfaction of saying "I did it" with help from this group of amazing people. Thanks again for the assistance.

[fletch]

155874155875155876155877155878155879155880

[roadrashrob]

Isaac and I thought sequential turn signals would be cool. So I bought some dual color LEDs and got an Arduino from JimLev and set to work. Here's the finished hardware.
155869155871155872155870155873

It's spaghetti, but it all functions as desired. Also on the bottom red PCB are the MC33660 SSM to Serial chip from AJ which allows reading ECU data into the Arduino, plus several additions suggested by Bob_n_Cincy & AJ (solid state relays for interfacing with the 12V circuits, for example).
I learned a lot on this sub-project. Initially I was planning to design a custom PCB, but someone suggested these solderable breadboards as an alternative. I had a few lying around and decided that would be much easier and faster.

Here's a look at the turn signals, DRLs, & headlights.
https://youtu.be/TOZCr1YLX8g

Fletch,

Love the sequential! lights! We also like the idea, but I am planning on just purchasing a Ghostz controller. I've had my share of wiring with the MegaSquirt ECU I'm using! Where I am struggling is the rear brake lights. Round sequential LEDs would look awesome, but I've been searching extensively and can't find any 5" LED TailLights out there to modify. Trying to come up with a solution without going all Art Quillen on it! :-) Have you tackled the rear lights yet, or come up with a solution?

Anyone have any ideas on LED brake lights that won't require body modifications?

[Ajzride]

Anyone have any ideas on LED brake lights that won't require body modifications?

No, but after upgrading my taillights, I can highly suggest biting the bullet and doing body modifications. Lights that are short and wide look so much better with the body lines. If you want to keep round lights, I suggest some upgraded Lotus lights.

https://www.gregsraceparts.com/collections/evora-exterior-styling/products/grp-v3-tail-lights-for-evora-evora-s-evora-400-410-430-gt-exige-380-430-elise-cup?variant=30901368422539

[Hobby Racer]

Fletch,
Anyone have any ideas on LED brake lights that won't require body modifications?

You can simply replace the bulbs with LED versions (super cheap). I did that for all the rear lights and love it. Much less power draw, and I was able to run thinner wires!

[JimLev]

Fletch, nice sequential turn signals. Looks good with the body on too.
Glad to see you figured out the code, my days of writing/modifying code are long gone.
That Arduino had been sitting in my desk for 7-8 years.

[roadrashrob]

You can simply replace the bulbs with LED versions (super cheap). I did that for all the rear lights and love it. Much less power draw, and I was able to run thinner wires!

Yes, have those, but... can't make them sequential. Looking for lights I can modify with individual LEDs to address and animate. Nissan GTR like, but not in Bezels....

[fletch]

I bailed on sequential signals for the rear and bought those beautiful but pricey GRP tail lights. The harness we made is wired for sequential rear turn signals if we ever decide to go that route but I suspect we won’t.

[Scott Meyer]

I have to say, the white gel coat body looks way better than our newer red Gen 2 body I’m just getting done with (bodywork and paint)!

[aquillen]

Very nice - and I applaud your dedication to getting it all worked out. I / we all know what it takes when you are in unfamiliar turf. Again - nice job.

[roadrashrob]

I bailed on sequential signals for the rear and bought those beautiful but pricey GRP tail lights. The harness we made is wired for sequential rear turn signals if we ever decide to go that route but I suspect we won’t.

Thanks! Those GRP lights do look nice. Which model Elise (of the 4) fit?

[fletch]

These, with red lenses & amber turn signals.
https://www.gregsraceparts.com/collections/evora-exterior-styling/products/grp-v3-tail-lights-for-evora-evora-s-evora-400-410-430-gt-exige-380-430-elise-cup?variant=30901368422539

I would post up some photos, but forgot to take them when I had all the lights installed. This was before we started on the body work.

[roadrashrob]

These, with red lenses & amber turn signals.
https://www.gregsraceparts.com/collections/evora-exterior-styling/products/grp-v3-tail-lights-for-evora-evora-s-evora-400-410-430-gt-exige-380-430-elise-cup?variant=30901368422539

I would post up some photos, but forgot to take them when I had all the lights installed. This was before we started on the body work.

No worries on the photos.

Thanks!

[roadrashrob]

Isaac and I thought sequential turn signals would be cool. So I bought some dual color LEDs and got an Arduino from JimLev and set to work. Here's the finished hardware.

Any pointer to the “dual color” marker lights you replaced the FFR ones with? Was thinking of using an LED strip, but now that I’ve actually pulled the headlights out of the box, that’S a harder mod than I feel like tackling.

-Rob

[fletch]

These are the dual color markers I bought. Note: they are NOT switchback lights. They have no smarts inside. You will need to enable & disable the two colors completely on your own.
YITAMOTOR 10x White Amber Eagle Eye LED 23mm 6SMD 9W High Power Eagle Eye Lighting for All DC12V Vehicles https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B07LBNJDLF/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_Q1TYKVKGAXGNEK56WX4V?_ encoding=UTF8&psc=1

Also, the GRP lights aren’t a tight fit inside the rear bumper. Working from memory here… there was 1/4-3/8” gap all the way around between the light housing and the bumper.

[roadrashrob]

These are the dual color markers I bought. Note: they are NOT switchback lights. They have no smarts inside. You will need to enable & disable the two colors completely on your own.
YITAMOTOR 10x White Amber Eagle Eye LED 23mm 6SMD 9W High Power Eagle Eye Lighting for All DC12V Vehicles https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B07LBNJDLF/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_Q1TYKVKGAXGNEK56WX4V?_ encoding=UTF8&psc=1

Also, the GRP lights aren’t a tight fit inside the rear bumper. Working from memory here… there was 1/4-3/8” gap all the way around between the light housing and the bumper.

Thanks! No worries on the switchback nature. Planned on doing that with the Ghostz controller anyway.

[roadrashrob]

Isaac and I thought sequential turn signals would be cool. So I bought some dual color LEDs and got an Arduino from JimLev and set to work. Here's the finished hardware.
155869155871155872155870155873

It's spaghetti, but it all functions as desired. Also on the bottom red PCB are the MC33660 SSM to Serial chip from AJ which allows reading ECU data into the Arduino, plus several additions suggested by Bob_n_Cincy & AJ (solid state relays for interfacing with the 12V circuits, for example).
I learned a lot on this sub-project. Initially I was planning to design a custom PCB, but someone suggested these solderable breadboards as an alternative. I had a few lying around and decided that would be much easier and faster.

Here's a look at the turn signals, DRLs, & headlights.
https://youtu.be/TOZCr1YLX8g

Fletch,

Curious how you dealt with the "sequential" directionals and the dual color LED lights having a shared ground. The switchback part is easy and I have that working, but I had picked up a pair of inexpensive LED sequencers, only to realize the off the shelf sequencers actually switch the ground, not the positive. If I get them sequencing for directionals, I then lose the DRL function of the white lights. You did a LOT with Arduino, so assuming you can share the grounds and just send out the power via logic on the Arduino?

-Rob

[aquillen]

Alright Fletch, now you've done it. I have my sequential on the tail but having watched your vid on the front doing it, It looks like I have to follow suit. Two of my front dual color LED's (amazon stuff) are acting up anyway, may as well change them all and add sequencing... :) thanks!

[fletch]

Fletch,

Curious how you dealt with the "sequential" directionals and the dual color LED lights having a shared ground. The switchback part is easy and I have that working, but I had picked up a pair of inexpensive LED sequencers, only to realize the off the shelf sequencers actually switch the ground, not the positive. If I get them sequencing for directionals, I then lose the DRL function of the white lights. You did a LOT with Arduino, so assuming you can share the grounds and just send out the power via logic on the Arduino?

-Rob

Rob,
Sorry for my delay. I've been working on the car and not on the forum much. Yes, I ended up switching 12V to the LEDs using the Arduino. The Arduino's outputs are 5V logic signals so I used a solid state relay driven by the Arduino to toggle 12V to each side of the dual-color LEDs.

[fletch]

Been too long... Update coming soon.
Lots of good stuff... and a broken CV joint. :(

[fletch]

We took the car to the track in early March for a HPDE school of sorts. 20 minutes in and the driver's side CV joint let loose ending our day. (And destroying my motivation to work on the car for a couple of months, but that's another story...)

While in the car, the large boot popped loose but the shaft stayed inside the inner "cup" so nothing is damaged beyond the axle itself. Here is what things look like after disassembly.
167128167129167130167131

What could have caused this? We were accelerating in 2nd gear somewhat aggressively, but nothing unusual. We did have new, wider rubber on the wheels and had recently increased rear camber to 3 deg. If this is a wear-out type of failure, what's wrong with the assembly or installation that could have caused this to fail after 200-300 miles? If I'm not mistaken, both axles were built by FFR. (Bob_n_Cincy, can you confirm?) The shafts themselves are marked with p/n 80033. One thing I noticed during removal from the car is that the axles may be overextended. They compress just fine during install, but get lengthen considerably when the axle nut is tightened. I can't think of a way to tell if this is actually the case (over-extension). The wheel hub seals seem fully seated against the axle so I don't think the axle's full extension is keeping the axle nut from being fully seated, for example. But maybe the tri-lobe is very near the edge of the CV "cup". Again, I'm not sure how to tell if this is the case. Does anybody have any suggestions?

During our postmortem we were able to determine that the distance between the transmission case and the driver's side hub is 1/4" more than the passenger's side. Meaning the DS axle needs to be 1/4" longer in its relaxed state. This is something we could fix by shifting the engine/transmission to the DS, but if 1/8" is going to make the difference, I'm concerned that this isn't a reliable fix to the problem.

Thoughts?

[Bob_n_Cincy]

We took the car to the track in early March for a HPDE school of sorts. 20 minutes in and the driver's side CV joint let loose ending our day. (And destroying my motivation to work on the car for a couple of months, but that's another story...)

While in the car, the large boot popped loose but the shaft stayed inside the inner "cup" so nothing is damaged beyond the axle itself. Here is what things look like after disassembly.
167128167129167130167131

What could have caused this? We were accelerating in 2nd gear somewhat aggressively, but nothing unusual. We did have new, wider rubber on the wheels and had recently increased rear camber to 3 deg. If this is a wear-out type of failure, what's wrong with the assembly or installation that could have caused this to fail after 200-300 miles? If I'm not mistaken, both axles were built by FFR. (Bob_n_Cincy, can you confirm?) The shafts themselves are marked with p/n 80033. One thing I noticed during removal from the car is that the axles may be overextended. They compress just fine during install, but get lengthen considerably when the axle nut is tightened. I can't think of a way to tell if this is actually the case (over-extension). The wheel hub seals seem fully seated against the axle so I don't think the axle's full extension is keeping the axle nut from being fully seated, for example. But maybe the tri-lobe is very near the edge of the CV "cup". Again, I'm not sure how to tell if this is the case. Does anybody have any suggestions?

During our postmortem we were able to determine that the distance between the transmission case and the driver's side hub is 1/4" more than the passenger's side. Meaning the DS axle needs to be 1/4" longer in its relaxed state. This is something we could fix by shifting the engine/transmission to the DS, but if 1/8" is going to make the difference, I'm concerned that this isn't a reliable fix to the problem.

Thoughts?

Fletch, After I twisted off a few sets of axles doing autocross launches. I got 2 sets of pre-assembled axles from FFR. One of those sets is in my car today and you have the other set. If you could put the car back together without the shock assembly and without the inner boot. Then move the left rear suspension through the full range of travel. Watching the tri-loob to see how close it is to coming out. This should help figure out the problem.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Here is a picture of my boots for reference: 167133

[fletch]

Thanks, Bob. Great suggestion to use the broken axle to test engagement of the CV joint. I think I'll try that out tonight. And since I've got both axles removed it should be simple to run the test on both sides of the car.

[fletch]

Per Bob's suggestion above, I put the axle in both sides and compared at droop and bump.
DS context view, DS droop 2X, DS bump
167389167386167387167388

PS context view, PS droop, PS bump
167392167390167394

So, clearly there's a significant difference and it looks like the failure condition was inadequate insertion on the driver's side particularly during full droop. As far as fixing the issue... I can shift the transmission toward the DS and split the difference. This will require slotting the frame where the transmission mount bolts in. The slots for the transmission mount run fore/aft. However, I'm not sure there's enough total engagement for both sides. So, how to move the wheel hubs inward...

I can shorten the upper and lower lateral links. The lowers have plenty of travel but the uppers are fully compressed. To move the wheels inward I will need to cut the upper lateral links. Not thrilled about this choice, but I don't see an alternative. Anybody have any thoughts on this?
167391167393

By the way, it seems that when I increased the camber on the rear wheels most recently I made my axle problem worse because I had to lengthen the lower lateral links.

And finally, what would you suggest I do to get/manufacture a new axle? The outward portion seems fine apart from the replaceable trilobe portion. The inner "cup" has enough damage at the outer edge that I don't think it should be reused.

[fletch]

I'm planning to cut the lateral links tonight and would appreciate any input on that plan. Especially if you think I shouldn't go that route...measure twice, cut once and all that...
Thanks!

[fletch]

I shifted the transmission toward the driver's side by cutting lateral slots in the frame where the trans mount is secured. Then used the busted axle to assess the right-to-left alignment.
167568167569

Also cut down the upper lateral links to allow pulling the wheel hubs in. I took 1" off each link. My rough calculations indicate I need about 1-5/16" to keep the axle trilobes safely inserted into the "cups."
167567

[fletch]

It's been so long since I posted (aside from the recent axle drama) that a lot of progress hasn't been reported. The next few posts should catch us all back up.

Here is one of the nifty jacking points I had a friend weld up for me. Very happy with these guys.
167570167571

[fletch]

While crawling under the car replacing the wheel studs or maybe just closing out the front wheel wells I noticed this.

167572

I nearly had a heart attack. There were maybe 2 threads of engagement. Fortunately I saw it before it really became a problem. This was solved by flipping the orientation of the brackets fore-aft.

[fletch]

I found a use for the FFR seat brackets. Following Art's guidance here with bucket attachment.
167573167574167575167576167577167578

[fletch]

I didn't notice how crooked the headlight buckets were until I got them installed in the fenders. So I took another page from Art and created aluminum interposers to get the rotation correct.
167579167580

[fletch]

The FFR wheel wells were a bit of a challenge. There was a fair bit of wrestling involved to get them properly formed, then aligned to the inner fenders. I added tabs with rivnuts to the fender to secure the wheel wells in place. They are entirely supported by the fiberglass body and have no connection to the frame. Seems to work well and is plenty rigid. I also made them 2-piece to better connect with the rear bumper and make removal a tiny bit easier.
167581167582167583167584

[fletch]

The recommended yoga mat installed. Also tabs to support the forward wheel well panel similar to the rear wheel well attachment.
167585167586

[fletch]

Here's how we looked a few days before the track day when the axle broke. I was able to add the doors just before then but forgot to get a picture. New wheels & custom bungee cord instrument cluster.
167587167588167589167590167591

And that about catches us up to today.

[Rob T]

Fletch: This looks great. I'd strongly recommend some open honeycomb mat over the radiator. It's usually used on sprint cars, dirt cars. My radiator was getting "shelled" on the track with rocks, tire rubber, etc and was getting damaged. This material is strong, flexible and does not cause any noticeable impact on radiator performance (way less than bent fins....).

[aquillen]

While crawling under the car replacing the wheel studs or maybe just closing out the front wheel wells I noticed this.

167572

I nearly had a heart attack. There were maybe 2 threads of engagement. Fortunately I saw it before it really became a problem. This was solved by flipping the orientation of the brackets fore-aft.

Definitely an OMG moment.

[jforand]

While crawling under the car replacing the wheel studs or maybe just closing out the front wheel wells I noticed this.

167572

I nearly had a heart attack. There were maybe 2 threads of engagement. Fortunately I saw it before it really became a problem. This was solved by flipping the orientation of the brackets fore-aft.

Wow! Great catch. Personally I am a stick my for as mainly thread as I can possibly get. I think mine are uppers are completely engage with no thread showing. I cut the turnbuckles the bare minimum and am running the most camber I could get. It is nice to have the 50/50 adjustment capability but I don’t ever want to sacrifice that much positive engagement for the potential of inward mobility. Speaking of this, it does look like you did not have to remove too much thread on the lateral links, but you should really be sure on that. I ended up buying another set that were something really closed to 1” longer just to get that 1/2” of thread engagement back on both sides. They are VERY cheap outright and certainly in comparison to an incident.

[J R Jones]

Standard design practice is 1 1/2 times the thread diameter for thread engagement with steel on steel. Aluminum and high stress require 2 diameters.
The jamb nuts are not included in the 1 1/2 proportion. Actually I do not see a bending moment on this part, it is the upper control arm? Is there binding in the articulated ends?

[jforand]

Standard design practice is 1 1/2 times the thread diameter for thread engagement with steel on steel. Aluminum and high stress require 2 diameters.
The jamb nuts are not included in the 1 1/2 proportion. Actually I do not see a bending moment on this part, it is the upper control arm? Is there binding in the articulated ends?

Agreed.

JR, I don't actually think it is "bent". If you zoom in the threads (males side) look intacted to me. It seems that there is only a thread or two and they are just not engaged and that is how it is sitting, versus being bent or deformed tot he current angle.

Can't lie here. Everything has been on and off so much that it is easy to miss something. I adopted a process early of only hand tightening everything as I did not want to over do the nylocks and such from a 100 offs and ons. Even after a few 'complete' nut and bolt checks one pops up from tie to time. I even went around with a paint pen and hit everything after torqueing, but now those have been off too! I guess I need to switch colors:D

[Frank818]

It's been so long since I posted

Me too!!!!

Damn, Brian, there are a lot of great ideas on your car!!! It makes my solutions look like CRAP compared to yours. But I can swallow the pill as I have not encountered any issues after thousands of kms, but I'd still have appreciated knowing about those great ideas 4 to 7 years ago! loll :D


Keep up the good work, send more videos on your channel soon!
And let's hope you fly to MTL again someday...

[fletch]

Well, we aren't dead. But, boy, did we lose some momentum.
More tomorrow.

[JimLev]

I was wondering what happened to you. My 33 has been registered for a year now.

[fletch]

Getting the dashboard to a reasonable place took forever. And we had some other family stuff to deal with so progress has been very sporadic and slow. Isaac's a sophomore at Texas Tech studying mechanical engineering, so I guess we've been successful!
Foot vents, dash vents, defrosters, speakers & head unit... and the dash needs to be detachable. This was a challenge. I used several kg of PLA filament in my 3d printer to make ductwork. Had to learn to use CAD a bit... Ultimately, I'm very happy with how it turned out.
195266
Door glass is the nightmare everyone promised. I can't get a decent seal at the rear edge of the window so I think I'm going to need to modify some fiberglass back there to push the seal outward.
195267195268

@JimLev, we should get together. I need help figuring out some fiberglass challenges - hood fitment, door seal gaps, just to name a few. If you can spare some time, it would be great to reconnect.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Getting the dashboard to a reasonable place took forever. And we had some other family stuff to deal with so progress has been very sporadic and slow. Isaac's a sophomore at Texas Tech studying mechanical engineering, so I guess we've been successful!
Foot vents, dash vents, defrosters, speakers & head unit... and the dash needs to be detachable. This was a challenge. I used several kg of PLA filament in my 3d printer to make ductwork. Had to learn to use CAD a bit... Ultimately, I'm very happy with how it turned out.
195266
Door glass is the nightmare everyone promised. I can't get a decent seal at the rear edge of the window so I think I'm going to need to modify some fiberglass back there to push the seal outward.
195267195268

@JimLev, we should get together. I need help figuring out some fiberglass challenges - hood fitment, door seal gaps, just to name a few. If you can spare some time, it would be great to reconnect.

VERY NICE workmanship. I love the tunnel that is not packed with a mountain of wires. You have more perseverance than I. When I got to the dashboard my project was all about getting it on the road quickly.

Congrats on your future Mechanical Engineer. I'm sure he learned more real life stuff building this 818 than he will learn in college.

I have extra door skins if you need any.
Bob

[JimLev]

Fletch, I’ll shoot you a text and we can set up a day and time.
Are you still doing any work from home? Week days are generally when I have the most free time.
Your 818 looks good. I was at FFR last Sept, they have stopped selling 818’s.