Door Latch Mounting

[Joecobr]

I understand some people are replacing the door latch mounting machine screws with 10-32 screws and rivnuts? This would be my preferred method as well (I don't have a single machine screw anywhere on the car). Can someone post a photo of this? Is the rivnut installed through both the fiberglass and the backing metal or just the metal with the fiberglass removed?

[edwardb]

I didn't take any pictures at that point. But I did install the latches with 10-32 screws and rivnuts on each of my builds. I didn't do anything special. Drilled the proper sized hole in the glass and backing plate and pulled them into place. I put a slight countersink on the back of the spacer so it fit flush against the glass, e.g. cleared the slight amount the rivnuts stood above the glass. The biggest issue though is getting them placed properly. Get the doors fitted first, then determine the location for the latch. I found sometimes the screw location wasn't completely on the backing plate. But still got everything to work.

[Joecobr]

Thanks, Paul. Just as I thought. Good point on the countersink. I'll do that as well. I am doing the passenger door first. It fit perfectly in relation to the body after some sanding. I am dreading the driver's door! As usual, your advice is greatly appreciated.

[boat737]

I pretty much followed what edwardb (Paul) did on one of his Roadster builds. The only difference I think, on one of the corners of each of the mounting plates, it was not really possible (with hand tools at least) to get the RivNut in there, it was just too close to the mold bend in the door. So I bent up a mounting nut plate, and Used HSRF to hold it in. I used a long set screw to hold it while the HSRF set up. On one door that worked perfect and I removed the set screw, but on the other I got some HSRF on the set screw/mounting nut and it wouldn't come out. So on that door there are three screws and one stud with a nut holding the latch. It's all hidden under the chrome cover anyway. All nice and solid. I also permanently mounted the plate that the the latch sits on (like Paul did).

I also did the two latch mod's that are mentioned in some old forum threads, the screw on the back side that holds the knob to the arm, and the latch arm mounting to the mechanism nut. Here is one link https://www.ffcars.com/FAQ/doors.html I can't find the other, but it's simply a hole drilled in the brass knob, and threaded for a machine screw (10-32?) to hold the knob onto the latch arm. It's only pressed in there and will come loose most likely some day.

[michael everson]

I have worked on 150+ of these cars and have never seen a need to use anything but the screws FFR supplied.
mike

[Jeff Kleiner]

I have worked on 150+ of these cars and have never seen a need to use anything but the screws FFR supplied.
mike

I hear ya' Mike. I had one brought to me for body & paint a while back with inserts in the doors but after I adjusted the doors properly the location the owner put them in wouldn't allow the latches to meet the striker and I had to drill them out, fill the holes and install the latches in the correct position (using sheet metal screws ;)).

Jeff

[Joecobr]

I hear ya' Mike. I had one brought to me for body & paint a while back with inserts in the doors but after I adjusted the doors properly the location the owner put them in wouldn't allow the latches to meet the striker and I had to drill them out, fill the holes and install the latches in the correct position (using sheet metal screws ;)).

Jeff

Hi Jeff,

Do you use the FFR supplied screws? They appear to be barely long enough if the spacer plate is required?

(I am not sure if builders develop OCD while building these cars or if these cars attract people with OCD but I'll probably go with the rivnuts!)

Joe

[boat737]

Just call me Mr. Type A OCD. I hate sheet metal screws.

[rich grsc]

I have worked on 150+ of these cars and have never seen a need to use anything but the screws FFR supplied.
mike


I hear ya' Mike. I had one brought to me for body & paint a while back with inserts in the doors but after I adjusted the doors properly the location the owner put them in wouldn't allow the latches to meet the striker and I had to drill them out, fill the holes and install the latches in the correct position (using sheet metal screws ;))

Jeff

Because too many think they can re-invent the wheel, "oh ya it worked on 5000 builds but mine is better". :rolleyes::p
Jeff, I was thinking the something as I read this.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Hi Jeff,

Do you use the FFR supplied screws? They appear to be barely long enough if the spacer plate is required?

(I am not sure if builders develop OCD while building these cars or if these cars attract people with OCD but I'll probably go with the rivnuts!)

Joe

I install longer screws if I use the latch spacer. I have plenty of my own OCD moments (wiring a car today and that REALLY brings 'em out :)) but rivnuts when a sheetmetal screw or pop rivet will do aint one of them---but don't let that stop you from letting it be one of yours!

Jeff

[j.miller]

#8 x 1.25 pan head self tappers …...every car.....every time.....20 years and not one problem.....if it comes loose after 15 yeas bump up to a #10......IT'S A LATCH! WITH A COVER ! I have had to deal with working with a Riv Nutjob ( talk about limiting your options on adjustment)…. Now I know why tigers eat their young …..Da Bat

[Joecobr]

OK, OK, I’ll bow to all the professional builders.

[Fixit]

Ok... satisfy your OCD and make it easier on the bodyguy...
There's a sheetmetal plate behind the fiberglass. Drill the 'glass and the plate for an 8-32 and run a tap in... Machine screws without the nutsert hassle.

(I hate sheetmetal screws also ;) )

[Just puttering]

You can rivnut the holes when the screws start to fail, but it is hard to go back once its been changed. I think i would atleast wait to the end (run the screws for a while to make sure on alignment!

Also, i am looking for a spacer plate if someone has an extra!

[edwardb]

My better judgment says walk away. But can’t help but make a couple comments.

I agree it’s very important to not attach the door latches until the doors are fitted and said that in my response to the OP. Regardless of the method used. Holes drilled in the wrong places will make getting the latches into the proper locations much more difficult. For those not doing their own body work, maybe best to leave them off. There are some definite tricks to getting the latches aligned and working properly after the doors are aligned, and experience counts.

I’ve said repeatedly, when the subject of mods and personal changes come up, that a pure stock build done well (an important point) results in a solid build and will give the owner plenty of service and enjoyment. But as is said often, these are personal builds. I make a lot of changes from stock in my builds, and as a hobbyist, part of the enjoyment. Clearly, many others have the same feeling. Not sure why those ideas or suggestions should ever be met with criticism or snide remarks. Unless there’s a safety or perhaps reliability concern.

Having said that, put me too in the camp of not liking self-tapping screws in metal. Do I have any engineering data or testing that says they’re not strong enough or long-lasting? No. For attachments that are typically one and done (e.g. not a maintenance item) if installed properly (e.g. not stripped over over-tightened) they’re usually OK. But my builds don’t use them. And I mean no disrespect to those before me who use them and haven’t had any issues.

I could cite lots of things in my builds (and others) that aren’t “necessary” or reflect personal opinion or practice. So can others. I totally understand why professional builders wouldn’t be doing many of those things because they add time for perhaps questionable value to their customers. But that might not be the complete picture for those of us that do this as a hobby and have the time and desire to add personal touches.

[boat737]

Well said Paul. Thanks for saying what I was thinking. Keep up the good work.

Sorry for the slight detour on the thread.

[Joecobr]

Great forum, great thread. All the technical solutions, pros and cons, presented, spiced with passionate philosophy. Anyone can now make an informed decision!

[Axoid]

Quick question. I bought a Mk IV roadster, and the owner/builder installed the door latch assemblies but didn't really align the doors to the body, as well as gap the doors. I may need to move the door side latch assemblies after I do the alignment/gapping. If I need to relocate those mounting holes in the door, what's the best way to fill those holes so I can drill new holes as needed? High strength fiberglass filler?

[michael everson]

Paul, I have told many people I could never build a car as nice as yours. Customers wouldn't pay for it. Its all about compromises.
Mike