1995 and older 302 question

[JS Fords only]

I have a 1995 mustang 302 with a auto atm but will be swapping it out with a tko 500 or a t5 trans. My question is is the older 302 good in a roaster or try harder and buy a new engine? Should I keep it efi or swap to carb for a affordable price? I'm worried that the car wont have enough power to be fun.

Right now the car has cobra upper and lower manifolds, 70mm throttle body, bbk intake, and bbk headers, and under drive pulleys. Also is Bama tuned with 24# injectors.

Thanks guys

[FFinisher]

I have a 1995 mustang 302 with a auto atm but will be swapping it out with a tko 500 or a t5 trans. My question is is the older 302 good in a roaster or try harder and buy a new engine? Should I keep it efi or swap to carb for a affordable price? I'm worried that the car wont have enough power to be fun.

Right now the car has cobra upper and lower manifolds, 70mm throttle body, bbk intake, and bbk headers, and under drive pulleys. Also is Bama tuned with 24# injectors.

Thanks guys


This all depends on what you want. Sounds just about right to me...

Unless of course you can afford a Coyote!

My MKIII I built in 06 has about the same set up and has 42000 miles of pure fun on it.

[NAZ]

Enough power? There is never enough power, but when you think have too much that's when you know you're getting close to enough.

I recommend you go with a crate engine -- the biggest, most powerful you can afford. Don't let others tell you that's too much; that skinny pedal on the right is the power modulator. Once you learn how to use it you will never have too much power. And you can't build a HP engine for less than you can buy a crate engine with a warranty.

[ptstew]

I have a 1991 302 with 1993 cobra intake and 70mm BBK T/B. Air Mass, fuel injectors, headers and heads are stock. I am very happy with power for a strictly street car. My engine also came from an ATM car but I used a T5. One thing I found for the 1991 is that the flywheel on an ATM car doesn’t have the same number of teeth as the manual so if you ever have to replace the starter motor you will need one for ATM.

[Jeff Kleiner]

This all depends on what you want. Sounds just about right to me...

Unless of course you can afford a Coyote!

My MKIII I built in 06 has about the same set up and has 42000 miles of pure fun on it.

Yep! FFinisher Ron and I are in complete agreement on this. Although we've done 60+ cars between us our own personal roadsters are powered by moderately built EFI 5.0 Windsors much like what you describe. We're both big believers in the Coyote but it's hard to make any argument against the little 5.0s...or as he and I like to call them "the old reliables". You can beat on them like a borrowed mule, have enough fun to scare yourself into wetting your pants then put it away without so much as an apology for 6 months and when you come back to it just turn the key and do it all over again. Still a big winner in the bang for the buck game.

Jeff

[rich grsc]

I have a 1995 mustang 302 with a auto atm but will be swapping it out with a tko 500 or a t5 trans. My question is is the older 302 good in a roaster or try harder and buy a new engine? Should I keep it efi or swap to carb for a affordable price? I'm worried that the car wont have enough power to be fun.

Right now the car has cobra upper and lower manifolds, 70mm throttle body, bbk intake, and bbk headers, and under drive pulleys. Also is Bama tuned with 24# injectors.

Thanks guys

Is that a serious question? It was fun in a Mustang, now you've just dropped over a 1000 #'s, more than enough. I just can't agree with the idea you can't have enough power, even 300 hp will get these cars in serous danger if you aren't careful. Sure an experienced race driver can handle extreme power, but not the average guy, one second of "hey watch this" and it's all over.

[ztoolman44]

Yep! FFinisher Ron and I are in complete agreement on this. Although we've done 60+ cars between us our own personal roadsters are powered by moderately built EFI 5.0 Windsors much like what you describe. We're both big believers in the Coyote but it's hard to make any argument against the little 5.0s...or as he and I like to call them "the old reliables". You can beat on them like a borrowed mule, have enough fun to scare yourself into wetting your pants then put it away without so much as an apology for 6 months and when you come back to it just turn the key and do it all over again. Still a big winner in the bang for the buck game.

Jeff

Refreshing to know I'm not the only one. I'm building mine to drive and want reliability as much as fun. The thought of being able to pick up common parts anywhere I go is comforting as well.

[mburger]

My ol' Mk1 is fun, (see signature) but with the stock intake, cam and heads, I'm finding I want a little more. The forum has given me great advice on how to get the extra ~75 horses or so I'm looking for. Speaking only for myself, with my current skill set and how I drive my car, most likely anything over 300 hp is wasted power.

[DadofThree]

Hi JS Fords Only,

I built mine as a cruiser, and have a stock '95 302 in mine. Changed the cam to a E303 and added the carb intake with the fitech for the "classic" look. because I was swapping out all work parts, I went with the front dress of a '93 302 (per recommendation of Dougherty) for ease of parts availability. My Car is a LOT of fun for me. I guess it depends on what you're use to. I don't do burn outs, or crazy stuff. But I LOVE 2nd Gear or third gear on an on ramp, and it pushes me in the back of the seat.

Rich is correct, that if it was enough for a Mustang GT, that taking 1,000 lbs off is even more fun!

PICS (https://www.flickr.com/photos/annabellerose/albums/72157679703763886)

[JS Fords only]

Hi JS Fords Only,

I built mine as a cruiser, and have a stock '95 302 in mine. Changed the cam to a E303 and added the carb intake with the fitech for the "classic" look. because I was swapping out all work parts, I went with the front dress of a '93 302 (per recommendation of Dougherty) for ease of parts availability. My Car is a LOT of fun for me. I guess it depends on what you're use to. I don't do burn outs, or crazy stuff. But I LOVE 2nd Gear or third gear on an on ramp, and it pushes me in the back of the seat.

Rich is correct, that if it was enough for a Mustang GT, that taking 1,000 lbs off is even more fun!

PICS (https://www.flickr.com/photos/annabellerose/albums/72157679703763886)

How much money do u think u have put into your 302 to turn it into a fitech top end and do you think it was work the cost since u already had a topend? Thanks

[JS Fords only]

So since you have done so many of these cars with a old school 302. is there anything that you would change or have changed with your experience over the years with these engines? Just curious if there are any parts I should start to look at buying. Or something I should do when I have the engine out of the car? Thanks

Engine has 148k miles

[DadofThree]

How much money do u think u have put into your 302 to turn it into a fitech top end and do you think it was work the cost since u already had a topend? Thanks

I would have needed to go with new injectors, but could have reused the intake. I was changing everything out anyway.

Fitech 400 hp - $795 before $75 rebate
Edelbrock RPM - $196
Scott Drake Cobra Air Cleaner - $50

Fittings and EFI hose:
EAR-AT165056ERLTUBE ADAPTER turns 5/16"tube to 6AN male summit racing $10.74 1 $10.74
EAR-AT165064ERLTUBE ADAPTERturns 1/4"tube to 6AN male summit racing $10.82 1 $10.82
FRA-200106-BLSTR PUSH LOCK END BLK summit racing $3.97 2 $7.94
FRA-204506-BL45 PUSH LOCK END BLK summit racing $13.97 2 $27.94
FRA-873006PUSH LOCK HOSE summit racing $8.97 2 $17.94


I stayed with a stock in tank fuel pump

Pics of Upper Intake with Fitech (https://www.flickr.com/photos/annabellerose/albums/72157675656449763)

https://live.staticflickr.com/577/33082792351_d7135ee582_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/SppXzz)IMG_1969 (https://flic.kr/p/SppXzz) by D. R. (https://www.flickr.com/photos/annabellerose/), on Flickr
https://live.staticflickr.com/4170/34632508106_d683578f2f_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/ULmE5J)20170513_195955 (https://flic.kr/p/ULmE5J) by D. R. (https://www.flickr.com/photos/annabellerose/), on Flickr

[JS Fords only]

I would have needed to go with new injectors, but could have reused the intake. I was changing everything out anyway.

Fitech 400 hp - $795 before $75 rebate
Edelbrock RPM - $196
Scott Drake Cobra Air Cleaner - $50

Fittings and EFI hose:
EAR-AT165056ERLTUBE ADAPTER turns 5/16"tube to 6AN male summit racing $10.74 1 $10.74
EAR-AT165064ERLTUBE ADAPTERturns 1/4"tube to 6AN male summit racing $10.82 1 $10.82
FRA-200106-BLSTR PUSH LOCK END BLK summit racing $3.97 2 $7.94
FRA-204506-BL45 PUSH LOCK END BLK summit racing $13.97 2 $27.94
FRA-873006PUSH LOCK HOSE summit racing $8.97 2 $17.94


I stayed with a stock in tank fuel pump

Pics of Upper Intake with Fitech (https://www.flickr.com/photos/annabellerose/albums/72157675656449763)

https://live.staticflickr.com/577/33082792351_d7135ee582_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/SppXzz)IMG_1969 (https://flic.kr/p/SppXzz) by D. R. (https://www.flickr.com/photos/annabellerose/), on Flickr
https://live.staticflickr.com/4170/34632508106_d683578f2f_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/ULmE5J)20170513_195955 (https://flic.kr/p/ULmE5J) by D. R. (https://www.flickr.com/photos/annabellerose/), on Flickr

That looks so clean. So u got to keep your lower Intake? When u do the fitech u no longer need to run a wire harness right? I so love the before and after pic of your engine. Do you have a picture of it in your car?

Also do you think you made more or less hp and does the fitech learn on it's own or do u need to tune it? Sorry alot of questions but thank you

[Ray]

I've got a 1972- 302 with a 1965 Offenhauser intake and a Holly Street Avenger carb. More then enough power to scare the crap out of you and your passenger if you don't know how to drive.

Ray

[DadofThree]

That looks so clean. So u got to keep your lower Intake?

It's not clean anymore. :)
No, The Edelbrock RPM Carb Intake is the lower intake that I am using. It replaced the Ford EFI Lower Intake.


When u do the fitech u no longer need to run a wire harness right?

Depends on what you're using. If you're using the OEM Ford harness, I'm afraid I cannot help. I used the Ron Frances wiring harness and tied the Fitech into it. (SEE ATTACHMENT FOR WIRING)


I so love the before and after pic of your engine. Do you have a picture of it in your car?

Thank you, It was a great experience and I learned a lot!!
https://live.staticflickr.com/1724/28601931178_162945d69f_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/KzsnEs)20180531_014926 (https://flic.kr/p/KzsnEs) by D. R. (https://www.flickr.com/photos/annabellerose/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/4162/33863435163_f171d1c672_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/TAoXup)Resized_20170511_203535 (https://flic.kr/p/TAoXup) by D. R. (https://www.flickr.com/photos/annabellerose/), on Flickr

Also do you think you made more or less hp and does the fitech learn on it's own or do u need to tune it? Sorry alot of questions but thank you

The same HP because I stayed stock with the thought that I can always add heads later on for additional HP if desired. Only changed the Cam for a different sound to the motor. Now, I'm over a year so far, and no changes. Just had a lot of fun coming to work this morning with the HP that I have. :)

The Fitech learns on its own. I haven't done any reprogramming. Nor am I really capable. That's why I purchased it. Fitech changed a setting or two when the car would stall at quick deceleration. Since the change, it doesn't stall anymore. Runs like a top!

[Big Blocker]

Basically a stock 5.0 from '89 with factory EFI . . . had this engine in since we built the car 18 years ago. I 100% agree with what Jeff Kleiner said above, you can romp these little engines all day and it will be there tomorrow, ready to go again.

Doc

[Just puttering]

Did you put the 148k on it? Do you still have the running car or just the motor? Still driving it if yes? Are you using the donor parts off it or just the motor? Whole car, how much could you sell it for to put to a new motor?

If you are just going to use the long block and swap to a carb, what is the difference in buying the intake ,carb , dist and etc. for your long block compared to selling it and buying a new motor.

Also, how tight is your budget? Some could buy the kit and build for 6 to 12 months then buy the motor!

[JS Fords only]

Did you put the 148k on it? Do you still have the running car or just the motor? Still driving it if yes? Are you using the donor parts off it or just the motor? Whole car, how much could you sell it for to put to a new motor?

If you are just going to use the long block and swap to a carb, what is the difference in buying the intake ,carb , dist and etc. for your long block compared to selling it and buying a new motor.

Also, how tight is your budget? Some could buy the kit and build for 6 to 12 months then buy the motor!

We bought the car with around 70k and yes we drive the car every weekend since a fun little convertible. The car is salvaged and really isn't worth anything and dont want to put any money in it anymore. The engine is very strong and if I install the engine in the roadster it will have more sentimental value to my wife since the 95 mustang was her first mustang back in 08.

Budget will be tight on this car and I think I have come to the conclusion that I'm going to keep the original engine at least for another five to ten years or so. Maybe I'll just do a gt40 swap and fitech efi and call it a day. Most of the ppl on this forums seem pretty happy with there older 302s. Thanks for your input everyone.

[Railroad]

Some advise, if you are running stock heads. Replace the valve springs. You will not feel it in the performance, but the stock engines are known for generic, comparatively weak valve springs.
If you get above 4500 rpm, upgrade the cam, or have a used engine, it needs to be on you check off list.

[Avalanche325]

If it were me. I would either leave it alone and install as is, or go all the way with a rebuild / stroker kit / aftermarket heads etc.

Is there something wrong with the factory EFI? Besides it not being pretty. The factory EFI seems to be the most dependable. Though, I haven't heard of any Fitech failures. But out of the two people that I know that have it, one loves it, one hates it.

If you start changing things, one thing leads to the next, and the next, and the next.

[Jeff Kleiner]

...Is there something wrong with the factory EFI? Besides it not being pretty. The factory EFI seems to be the most dependable...

Did ya' see my comments in post #5? Even though Ron and I have seen & built a bunch of FFRs with other powerplants there might be a reason why we have stuck with the "old reliables" in our personal cars ;)

Not pretty? I can't see what's under the hood when I'm driving :cool:

Jeff

[rich grsc]

OH MAN, you want me to read through all that stuff? Just want to jump to the end an throw in my 2 cents worth. :rolleyes: :p

[Avalanche325]

Yep. Beautiful from the drivers seat!

[JS Fords only]

Ya I read all of the posts on here, it's just alot to take in and remember it all. I just really hate wires and how they look. I'm 33 years old and have never owned a classic and this may be closest I get to owning one and have always wanted the carburetor look for some reason. I know I'm not the only person out there to fill this way.

For a person like me to live in a state like California and to always have to deal with smogg being a car guy, getting a car that no longer needs smogg I know I will feel so much satisfaction to give cali the middle finger for bypassing smogg. Not sure what this has to do with efi or carb it's just how I feel. Kinda hard to understand I guess. It's just a young person problem I guess and never growing up with it or the look.

Thank you for your understanding guys.

[Big Blocker]

Well, if you really really want that carb'd look, pull the EFI manifold and swap to a nice carb'd one and slap a Holley or FiTech EFI unit on it, covered up with a carb type air cleaner . . . carb'd look 302 (5.0). Not much money spent and the wife gets to keep her "nostalgia" engine - you guys get a convertible car to take out on the road on weekends for tons of fun . . . and still be reliable.

You'll probably need a different distributor unless you can figure out a way (MSD ignition) to make the TFI fitted one (used for factory EFI) work - if / when swapping distributors, be extra careful of the dizzy gear, there are issues with using non-EFI type gears on roller cammed engines. Cam is steel and needs a steel dizzy gear as well.

Is staying with the factory EFI starting to sound like a financially sound idea?

Just my 2¢

Doc

[Avalanche325]

I don't think I have ever seen a woman that is sentimental about an ENGINE! She's a keeper.