CT Owners Beware - Motor Vehicle Assessment Tax Increases!

[Badfish]

For those of you who live in Connecticut, you are well aware of the annual Motor Vehicle property tax. This year the property tax on my Factory Five Roadster increased almost 20x to well over $1000!

My car is registered as a 2004 Composite Cobra, which I believe was the only available option at the time (no option to register it as a 1965). Since that timeframe, the tax has been relatively low on the car. Quite a shock this year.

I initially had my wife call the assessor’s office (she’s familiar with the car and taxes). He told her that it’s difficult to assess these cars, therefore Autotrader was used to assess it. He said these cars range in market value, many well above $60 - 80K, therefore the assessment on ours was ‘reasonable’. He gave no indication on why the assessment changed in 2019. He stated we could contest it in September at a session specific to challenging assessments.

Over the past few days, I’ve been researching CT DMV’s website and any information available. In addition, I looked on autotrader.com, which is where he stated he pulled the values. To my surprise, there are no Cobras on autotrader. Interesting.

Today I followed up with a call to the assessor’s office. He started out by saying that he already explained the assessment when I (my wife) called, and again repeated we could come in September to provide documentation of a different value.

I asked him where he arrived at the assessment value, and this time he stated Google. I questioned him on the use of Google as an assessment tool, and he said it’s in his right to use it and stands by it. I stated he told my wife he used autotrader, and he didn’t have a good response.

When I mentioned there are many different kits and build standards, he didn’t really acknowledge, except to suggest I should have put my brand (Factory Five) on the title in 2004. Such great guidance.

I asked him if he really thought it was reasonable to increase the assessment so much, and he stated yes. I asked if this was your car, would you think so? He said he’d never buy a car like this (note: I built mine :)). He said if it was him, he’d just be happy to enjoy the prior years lower assessments.

The conversation didn’t improve from there, and he even said "do you think I’m going to change my mind after this 9 minute phone call?”. Nice, now the assessor can apparently assess cars based on emotion and Google.

I asked if there was a path for me to update the year of the car from 2004 to 1965, since that’s what is on the certificate of origin and the body style, and also that the DMV regs now allow us to title our cars in the year of the body style (1965). https://www.ct.gov/dmv/cwp/view.asp?a=804&q=244898. He implied it’s not legal, since my VIN is based on 2004, and the kit (car) is not from 1965.

Here’s what it says on CTDMV:
At the time of inspection a VIN will be assigned by the Inspector. The year assigned to the vehicle will be the year in which the vehicle was built or the year of a previously manufactured vehicle that it most closely resembles. On your registration and title documents, the make will be specified as "Composite."

I thought that this form was a potential option for updating the vehicle year, but he indicated no, based on the existing 2004-based VIN:
TAXPAYER'S APPLICATION FOR CHANGE OF MOTOR VEHICLE ASSESSMENT: https://www.ct.gov/dmv/LIB/dmv/20/29/L-4.pdf

I told him that actions like these are damaging the hobby and could potentially drive me to sell the car. I couldn’t help but also comment that these type of taxation actions are pushing people and companies (GE, UTC, etc) out of Connecticut.

“Any more questions?", and he quickly got off the phone. I called back, got his name and ‘deputy' position, and he quickly got off again.

So, I’m boxed in. I’m stuck paying half of the assessed amount before Aug 1, then attempt to contest it in September. When I asked if I will receive interest on money they are holding for the period between payment and reimbursement (assuming I can get it lowered), he didn’t know how to answer it. Kinda frightening, considering he’s in a financial-related position.

I’ve also reached out to https://www.ctccc.net, since their website has some good information on CT vehicle tax. Hoping they have some guidance.

Anyone else experience a change this year?

[RJD]

That bites. I'll keep my fingers crossed for a successful challenge. Good luck.

[RickP]

I’ve never heard of a vehicle property tax. Are you saying you have to pay a tax for just owning a car in Connecticut outside of registering, insuring, fueling and repairing?

[brewha]

I’ve had similar attacks from the assessor for other crazy taxed items, but you can fight them. I would start a the top and complain in person to the mayor or first selectman in your town. If your town has several selectmen then complain to all of them. Remind them of elections coming up and how you can bring this up as political point on how they are hunting for cash that can raise all assessments for everyone in the town. Unfortunately assessor can be either an elected or an appointed position depending on the town. If it’s appointed, the top dog is your target. If it’s elected then you go after the party.
However you go at it, be civil. No one will respond to attacks or anger, and will quickly shutdown a conversation which needs to happen.
Good luck.

[edwardb]

I’ve never heard of a vehicle property tax. Are you saying you have to pay a tax for just owning a car in Connecticut outside of registering, insuring, fueling and repairing?

About half of the states in the US have a property tax based on the value of the vehicle. Big difference in the percentage though, and often is part of the annual registration fees so many don't recognize it as that. The OP's state of Connecticut is one of the highest, although some are still more. The issue here is the method of calculating the value, where someone has clearly gotten a little creative. We used to live in Virginia (some years ago) and as I recall also applied to boats, RV's, etc. Found this chart that lists all 50 states: https://wallethub.com/edu/t/states-with-the-highest-and-lowest-property-taxes/11585/#vehicle.

[RBachman]

Same for us on a different vehicle, but they're a bit more reasonable here. Here's what you need to know, and have your local representative make some calls for you.

He said the appraisal is based on Google. He's lying.

Ask for the documentation showing how it was calculated, what comparisons they used and WHY they used Google.
What authority does he have to use Google?
Find out if it's legal to tax YOUR labor.
AND get your OWN estimates from a dealer...better yet, three dealers!
Go to the next county board meeting and present your case to them in public.
Call your local newspaper or TV station and ask if they have an "On Your Side" segment where they help people being screwed over.
If all else fails, register it in another county or state.
Get on Facebook and shame them...do it nicely, but shame them.

[Al_C]

I grew up in central CT and my job helped me move out 30 years ago. This is just one more item telling me I made the right decision! (IL isn't much better, but at least we don't have property tax on vehicles.)

[Papa]

What is it with the Northeastern states and crazy taxes? Don't they recall their own history?

[RBachman]

I moved from Illinois to SC to get away from the crap. Here they have property taxes on cars, but sales tax on automobiles is capped at $350. So it evens out. Funny thing thing, the taxes on my 45' diesel motorcoach are less than they are for some of our cars! LOL

[videodude]

CT appears to be ranked as the third most "liberal" state in the US, with some of the highest taxes. None of this is surprising. Even the Franchise Tax Board in CA does not have appraisers for vehicles, they use the purchase price (or for a kit, the "build price") for a taxation valuation, and the DMV is the one that does it. Heaven help the builders in CA if the legislators in CA follow CT's lead on this.

God Bless the Great State of Nevada! (where we have affordable homes, reasonable utilities, and comparatively cheap gas)

Video

[RickP]

Do states with property taxes on vehicles decrease as the value of the vehicle depreciates?

[RBachman]

Do states with property taxes on vehicles decrease as the value of the vehicle depreciates?

They do in SC. Also, if your vehicle has accelerated depreciation due to something like high mileage, damage, etc. you can request a reduction.

[Jstanding]

WOW, Never thought under a tax discussion i would say i'm glad i live in NY. How does someone that lives in one of those states afford to have even a small collection of cars?

[RBachman]

WOW, Never thought under a tax discussion i would say i'm glad i live in NY. How does someone that lives in one of those states afford to have even a small collection of cars?

LOL. You should talk to my wife, she'll never go back to NY. LOL

It's not exactly bad here. If purchasing a vehicle in SC, there is a one-time Infrastructure Maintenance Fee (IMF) rather than a sales tax. This fee is 5% of the price up to a maximum of $500 (it used to be $350). Tax on a vehicle worth $30k is generally between $700 and $800 depending on where you live. BUT, taxes on a $500,000 home is around $2k. So there's a huge break compared to most states. In all, it cost a lot less to live in some of these states

[BadAsp427]

I moved from Illinois to SC to get away from the crap. Here they have property taxes on cars, but sales tax on automobiles is capped at $350. So it evens out. Funny thing thing, the taxes on my 45' diesel motorcoach are less than they are for some of our cars! LOL

Any your tax on your Factory Five Mk4 will be about $16-18 yes... Sixteen to Eighteen Dollars... Isn't SC great...

[BrewCityCobra]

Hear Hear. I also just moved out of Illinois (to my home state of Wisconsin). So refreshing to not get taxed to death on every single aspect of life. Glad to see Wisconsin is a non-tax state on that list.

[JimLev]

When I lived in MA (another liberal state) in addition to a 6.2% sales tax on the purchase price (no cap) we had a yearly excise tax that you pay forever. Plus a yearly safety and emission test.

Here in NM our sales tax on cars just went from 3.5% to 4.5% with a one time road use tax based on weight that was very reasonable.
A one time safety check when you register the car. No yearly emission testing in the county I live in.

After reading SerpantFL post below I should also add the roads in MA are terrible too. So may pot holes and neglected roads. The fuel tax was suppose to be used for road repairs, however the state legislature puts it in the general fund and spends it as they see fit.
The cost for using the toll roads keeps going up.
No toll roads out here in most of the western states.

[SerpantFL]

Thanks, Edwardb for that chart, although leaving NY for FL isn't much of a vehicle tax change, many other aspects are at play for me. Badfish, hope you are able to extricate yourself from that abuse of gov't. I may add that part of the impetus for my move is road surfaces. In NYC, the roads are so poorly maintained, that I wouldn't wish driving here on anyone. When people say that they have a beater, they mean it. I would not subject a roadster to NY roads for any reason. I see a correlation between high tax states and poor services for the "paying customer". Politics are for another venue, sorry. Drive safe.

[RJD]

Do states with property taxes on vehicles decrease as the value of the vehicle depreciates?

Yes in Virginia, but the taxes are still too high.

[RBachman]

It most definitely is!


Any your tax on your Factory Five Mk4 will be about $16-18 yes... Sixteen to Eighteen Dollars... Isn't SC great...

[Badfish]

Hey guys, thanks for all the responses. I'm posting this on both forums, as well as beginning a lot of communications as well. I'm researching the statutes as well. If I have to engage the city, I will.

He obviously relied on Google to do his job, found a high price and billed it. When questioned, he became emotional.

I absolutely plan to fight it and make sure others are aware. This is Middletown specific, but could soon affect others.

[David Hodgkins]

Folks, I'd like to keep the forum politics free please. The way we can do that is to keep terms like "liberal" out of your posts. References to any political party should be avoided. A few of the posts above are borderline and I know it can be frustrating to keep the politics out of the discussion but let's do all our friends a favor and try to keep party affiliations out of the conversation. Saying things like "taxes are too high" I think are ok at this point, as long as we keep the politics out.

Thanks,

:)

[Badfish]

I received the response below from the assessor today (http://www.cityofmiddletown.com/260/Tax-Assessor). I email him earlier this week to try to better understand how the deputy assessor assessed my vehicle, and request his assistance in providing the actual tools and documentation they used when reassessing this car for 2019, so we can better prepare our case for appeal.

Clearly they feel they do not need to substantiate their position. Seems like a crime to me.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
This office is required to value all vehicles in accordance with §12-71d. which reads as follows: "Sec. 12-71d. Schedule of motor vehicle values. On or before the first day of October each year, the Secretary of the Office of Policy and Management shall recommend a schedule of motor vehicle values which shall be used by assessors in each municipality in determining the assessed value of motor vehicles for purposes of property taxation. For every vehicle not listed in the schedule the determination of the assessed value of any motor vehicle for purposes of the property tax assessment list in any municipality shall continue to be the responsibility of the assessor in such municipality.."

In other words, if a vehicle does not appear on the [pricing] schedule of motor vehicles (OPM has instructed all assessors to value motor vehicle based upon the NADA clean retail value as published in the October edition), the value shall be determined by the assessor. There is no reference as to what information must be obtained, used, or considered to make that determination.

When you make an appeal, the appeal is not whether the assessor erred in his calculations, used an incorrect body type, or has insufficient knowledge of the intricacies of the specific make, model, kit type, chassis, etc. of the vehicle in question. The appeal is that the value placed upon the vehicle is inaccurate, and the appellant is required to share their detailed knowledge of the vehicle to the Board of Assessment Appeals for consideration. If the Board is so compelled by the testimony and evidence presented at the hearing they will make a determination and move to issue a new value.

As such, it is my recommendation that you focus on the appeal, and persuading the Board of a fair value for the vehicle as of October 1, 2018 as is required, rather than "the actual tools and documentation" used by this office. A successful appeal will make the value placed on the vehicle invalid regardless of any information I may find.

However, without compelling testimony or evidence indicating a value you find more appropriate, the Board may simply move to deny your appeal.

Kindest regards,

Xxxxx Xxxxxxx, CCMA II
Assessor, City of Middletown
245 deKoven Dr.
Middletown, CT 06457
Tel: (860) 638-4930 Fax: (860) 638-1935

[Papa]

Go to eBay and do a search for Factory Five Cobra, then select "sold items" and you'll get a nice list of values for cars that have actually sold, not just what the asking price was.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=factory+five+cobra&_sacat=0&rt=nc&LH_Sold=1&LH_Complete=1

You may want to tinker with the key words in the search since they get listed a lot of different ways.

Dave

[BadAsp427]

In addition to the "ebay" option that Papa very wisely made, Take your car down to your local CarMax and ask them for an appraisal. It will be free and they will do a lot of leg work with many sources and come up with an appraised value that may work very well for you. You most likely will not want to sell it to them for the number they will offer you. Also, don't tell them what you are doing it for, all they need to know is that you are thinking of selling it to them. As a long time employee of CarMax I kinda know this routine.

[Badfish]

I posted this on the other forum, here’s the latest:

I went to the assessment appeal board in early September. The board is supposed to consist of 3 members reviewing the appeals. It did not. Instead, they had each appellant meet with only one board member, and supposedly that one board member presents the appeal to the other two. This deviation from the 3-panel board gives the taxpayer less of a forum to successfully present their appeal.

So I presented my appeal to the one board member, who seem to know very little about cars and how they are assessed.

I presented (in powerpoint format!) the differences between a Factory Five and high priced kits like Superformance; explained "what it is" vs. "what it's not". I also showed the cost of my kit at the time of purchase in 2002 (17 years ago!) and examples of Factory Five and Superformance cars for sales.

By the end of September, I received a response in the mail. DECLINED. Declined, with no justification.

Next step is to present to Superior Court, which of course costs (me) more money, with the continued risk of no success. Seems to me Middletown has a nice little process set up here to stifle the voice of the taxpayer and generate themselves revenue.

Beware if you are a CT (especially Middletown) resident planning to build a kit!!

[RBachman]

I posted this on the other forum, here’s the latest:

I went to the assessment appeal board in early September. The board is supposed to consist of 3 members reviewing the appeals. It did not. Instead, they had each appellant meet with only one board member, and supposedly that one board member presents the appeal to the other two. This deviation from the 3-panel board gives the taxpayer less of a forum to successfully present their appeal.

So I presented my appeal to the one board member, who seem to know very little about cars and how they are assessed.

I presented (in powerpoint format!) the differences between a Factory Five and high priced kits like Superformance; explained "what it is" vs. "what it's not". I also showed the cost of my kit at the time of purchase in 2002 (17 years ago!) and examples of Factory Five and Superformance cars for sales.

By the end of September, I received a response in the mail. DECLINED. Declined, with no justification.

Next step is to present to Superior Court, which of course costs (me) more money, with the continued risk of no success. Seems to me Middletown has a nice little process set up here to stifle the voice of the taxpayer and generate themselves revenue.

Beware if you are a CT (especially Middletown) resident planning to build a kit!!

Another reason to move South.

[Badfish]

Hey guys. Just bringing this to the top again, due to some recent activity. I know folks will be going to CT inspections (at some point) this spring, so I want to share this information. You need to be sure you get your car titled / registered as a 1965, or you could be exposed to this same unethical taxation crap that I am. Getting your car registered as a 1965 provides the ability to get Historic plates, which keeps the annual vehicle tax at a low, fixed amount.

When mine was titled in 2004, CT DMV didn't have the provision to title in "the year of a previously manufactured vehicle that it most closely resembles". I've spoken with DMV, and unlikely I can get this changed to 1965, but I'm not done trying.

https://portal.ct.gov/DMV/Inspections/Inspections/Composite-Vehicles

At the time of inspection a VIN will be assigned by the Inspector. The year assigned to the vehicle will be the year in which the vehicle was built or the year of a previously manufactured vehicle that it most closely resembles. On your registration and title documents, the make will be specified as "Composite".

I'm likely faced with paying $1150 for the next four years until it reached 20 years in age. Honestly, I'm thinking about selling the car. Why should I give the town this money?! Considering I scrutinized every dollar I invested in this car, it kills me that after 16 years of the car being registered, I now have to fork over $1150 annual (will be well over $5000 over 5 years) due to the money grabbing, corrupt actions of the Middletown Tax Office.

As mentioned in prior posts, the town failed to hold a proper 3-panel board back in September, so I attempted to resubmit my appeal for February. The day of the appeal, the tax assessor informed me that I could not re-appeal.

Either way, I joined the appeals conference call at my time slot. Once again, the town only had one board member on the call to hear the appeals (not just my appeal). She stated I couldn't re-appeal it. I questioned her on why the prior September appeal was declined, and much like the assessor, couldn't address why the prior appeal was declined or why the sudden 1800% increase in annual tax.

So here's the funny part, and shows how sneaky / weak the town assessor is. In the beginning of the call, after the single board member joined, the tax assessor joins the call. This was the type of conference call where you state your name prior to the system putting you through. The system announces 'Damon', but he never introduces himself or speaks the entire call! At one point during the call, I ask if he's on the line, and he doesn't speak up or acknowledge me when I call him by name and ask about the assessment. So sneaky!

After the COVID situation settles down, I plan to engage our Congressmen (it's an election year!), or the newspaper, to investigate the tax office. Maybe SEMA?

[Badfish]

So, for all you CT residents, this is the week you'll likely receive your annual vehicle tax. Mine arrived yesterday.

...now increased the assessment another $8000.

This is apparently their unethical retaliation for me appealing the 2019 assessment. So, despite my phone calls, emails, appeals and full documentation on the value of the kit car and previous precedent on assessments, they again raised it substantially. If this type of retaliation occurred in the private section, they would be fired.

I've been unsuccessful in getting the car re-registered as 1965. DMV registration says they go by the year assigned by the inspector, which was 2004. Last conversation over the phone with one of the inspectors is they look at the manufacture date of the frame, not the body style. This contradicts what their website says (and I think SEMA?). It's been suggested I visit the inspector in person, so maybe when they reopen.

I'm very curious when the next few folks go through CT inspection what their FFR is deemed, a 2020 or 1965.

On June 1, I also submitted a letter to the Middletown Mayor on the questionable actions of the tax office. Never heard anything back. Reviewing their budget for 2020, they are hailing the goodness of lowering the mill rate by 0.2%, "on the back of strong grand list growth". Of course it's strong growth, you're raising the assessments, no need to raise the mill rate! Not to mention, seems like the assessor and deputy assessor pull down some decent coin. Not bad for searching NADA and google all day long.

[Badfish]

If you guys have 12 minutes, let me know what you think. This was the attempt for a 'second' appeal for last year. I think I-Team / Hartford Courant would be interested:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsSDEIcMU8w

[chmhasy]

And this is the reason you need to have the car registered as a 1965 in CT

Just got my tax bill for $20.00

[Badfish]

I’m trying. So far, unsuccessful. As mentioned above, spoke with the inspector over the phone, he said that they now go by frame manufacturer date, not ‘year it most closely resembles’.

For a very short period of a few months, I actually was able to get the historic plates, however DMV notified me that since the car was ‘inspected as a 2004’, I couldn’t have historic plates. The change apparently needs to occur at the ‘inspection level’. They pulled the 1965 registration and issued me standard plates. That’s when I called the inspector directly and got the above feedback. Others have suggested I go and discuss with the inspector in person, so maybe when they open, I will do that.

I called the assessors office on Monday. Same story as last year, telling me to appeal it. Well, we already know how that’s gonna go. They said that they take an average of all cobra values publicly available, and that’s how they assessed it. So despite all of the documentation I provided over the last year on the value differences between a Factory Five and more expensive brands, they still broad-brushed the assessment using ‘all Cobras’. I guess being 16+ year old kit has no bearing either. Talk about abuse of power and taking advantage of the taxpayer. $1450 due for 2020 annual vehicle tax.

So I guess we can sell our cars for $8000 more than we could in 2019?!

[chmhasy]

Badfish I sent you a PM

[chmhasy]

Badfish did you see this https://portal.ct.gov/DMV/Tax-Questions/Tax-Questions/Town-Property-Tax-Information

Scroll down to Assessment Appeals and Exemptions

Assessment Appeals

Assessment appeals should first be directed to your assessor and then to the local Board of Assessments Appeals (BAA). The BAA meets during the month of September. September is solely for appeals relating to motor vehicle assessments appearing on the preceding October 1st Grand List. Appearance before the BAA is required in order for the Board to consider your appeal. If you are unable to appear in person, you may give written authorization for someone to appear on your behalf as your agent. All documentation substantiating your appeal should be presented during the meeting. Any questions regarding the appeal process should be directed to your local tax assessor.

Exemptions

Property tax exemptions are available to qualified individuals such as: honorably discharged veterans, or their surviving spouses may be eligible for exemptions/and or assistance with their property tax payments. For further information about these exemptions please contact the Assessor in your municipality.

Please Note: A new exemption form must be filed whenever you move from one municipality to another. Please contact your assessor for further information.

[Mastertech5]

Any one here in MA know how it works here. I planned on ordering a kit and I hadn't thought of that. I was also wondering about the sales tax when you register the car. Do they subtract taxes you already paid for the kit or other parts or do they get you twice?

[cnutting]

My excise and sales tax was based on the cost of the kit and major components; engine, transmission. Keep all your receipts. The better documentation you keep, the better off you'll be, not only tax wise but with the whole registration process. You will most likely need to be the expert when dealing with the RMV, salvage group and inspection.

[Mastertech5]

But how is the sales tax calculated at registration time? Are you saying they taxed you on the kit price plus drive train? Did they subtract for the sales tax you already paid on any of that stuff to get to the total you had to pay at the Registry when you got your plates? If not, you had to pay sales tax twice. So I hope they don't charge sales tax again on what you already paid. When you buy a new car you pay the sales tax, but you haven't paid any already on anything. Get what I'm saying? I'm assuming you pay FFR sales tax if you live in MA.

[cnutting]

All of those taxes are paid at time of purchase. Bring your receipts showing proof of that to RMV during registration and you are all set. No double tax.

[Mastertech5]

Thanks, big relief. Good to know

[Badfish]

Hey man - thanks for continuing to help and suggest ideas. Unfortunately, I did appeal it, and attempted to appeal the appeal. Declined. Check out my above posts on how that went, and now I'm facing the same scenario this year and every year until the car 'becomes 20 years old'. Such BS.

I really hope @FactoryFiveRacing and @Dave Smith (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/member.php?13-Dave-Smith) are seeing this thread, as these tax implications could harm their customer base in CT. Folks need to strongly weigh the risk of pays $1500 per year, for 20 years, in vehicle property tax, above the cost of the kit build.



Badfish did you see this https://portal.ct.gov/DMV/Tax-Questions/Tax-Questions/Town-Property-Tax-Information

Scroll down to Assessment Appeals and Exemptions

Assessment Appeals

Assessment appeals should first be directed to your assessor and then to the local Board of Assessments Appeals (BAA). The BAA meets during the month of September. September is solely for appeals relating to motor vehicle assessments appearing on the preceding October 1st Grand List. Appearance before the BAA is required in order for the Board to consider your appeal. If you are unable to appear in person, you may give written authorization for someone to appear on your behalf as your agent. All documentation substantiating your appeal should be presented during the meeting. Any questions regarding the appeal process should be directed to your local tax assessor.

Exemptions

Property tax exemptions are available to qualified individuals such as: honorably discharged veterans, or their surviving spouses may be eligible for exemptions/and or assistance with their property tax payments. For further information about these exemptions please contact the Assessor in your municipality.

Please Note: A new exemption form must be filed whenever you move from one municipality to another. Please contact your assessor for further information.

[Badfish]

Figure I'll provided a bit of an update, and always open to suggestions and advice:

Registration / titling: I think I'm close with getting the car retitled as a 1965. It's been a lot of conversations / communications with forum members, one of the inspectors and the title department. All have been helpful. I'll leave out a lot of the details that got me to this point, but DMV agrees that the title can be corrected to 1965 Composite Cobra, and the registration updated as well.

However, they are saying that composite vehicles do not qualify for Classic plates. This concerns me, since the classic plate is what firmly caps the tax assessment at $500 (vs. the $50,000 they are currently [incorrectly] assessing it at). Without the classic plate, I think the assessors will continue to abuse me, even with a 1965 title. Also, my car is currently registered as a 2004, so would be 20 years old in 2024 (which should then be eligible for classic plates), so should I stick with it as 2004? If I go to a 1965 registration w/o the classic plates, not sure that that means for an assessment. I think they will still use their 'google search' and pick high value, non-representive replicas for the assessment.

Another forum member was titled in CT as a 1965 Cobra Roadster and got classic plates, but I'm told they won't title it like that for me.

Assessment: I appealed the 2020 assessment earlier this week. TBD is approved or declined. I will say that at least this year, the 1-person panel member seems knowledgeable in these cars to an extend, and hopefully I made the case very clear on a 18 year old factory five kit vs. other high end kits. We'll see the result after he reviews it with the other panel members for a decision.

If these paths don't work, not sure what I'm going to do, but I cannot sustain an additional $5000 in vehicle property tax over the next 3 years (or longer!).

[Papa]

Have you had the car appraised by a real appraiser? I would think that having an appraised value would go a long way towards making your case with the State.

[Badfish]

Hey Papa - I haven't had an appraisal done. It may help, but I'm leery to spend (an incremental) ~$400 on an appraisal, not knowing / guaranteeing if it would lead to success for me.

I asked them to provide examples of the cars they used for the assessment, received a response of: "We did not maintain copies of each of the 36 listings, just the average listed price". How convenient!

[Badfish]

Well, for the second year in a row, my appeal was DECLINED. So, over the past two years, I'll have paid roughly $2700 in vehicle property tax on a kit bought in 2002 and built with a $1000 donor.


I've connected with DMV, who has been quite responsive once I found the right people. They would revise my title to 1965 from 2004 (year it was registered), but stated that 'composite' vehicles are not eligible for classic plates. Am I waiting for response on if composite vehicles are ever eligible for classic plates (i.e. based on kit sales order date, frame manufacturing date, etc).


I'm out of options, but cannot continue to be subjected to these exorbitant taxes on a kit car. The next tax cycle starts Oct 1.


Watch out fellow Connecticut enthusiasts, you may be next!

[Tbev]

Being a fellow CT resident who is in the planning stages of his build, this thread depresses me. I know we get killed in taxes in general but I always thought we’d fall under the ‘classic plate’ status. So now I know I have to factor $1000 plus a year in my budget for taxes on a car that I build myself.

[chmhasy]

Being a fellow CT resident who is in the planning stages of his build, this thread depresses me. I know we get killed in taxes in general but I always thought we’d fall under the ‘classic plate’ status. So now I know I have to factor $1000 plus a year in my budget for taxes on a car that I build myself.

If you are building a ffr roadster it will be registered as a 1965 roadster. Bad fish registered a few years back and the state did not know how to registered them so his got registered as a 2004 I think for year, bad fish can help me out here. that is why Middletown is screwing him. I registered mine last year and was tagged as a 1965, I also have classic plates.

The inspector will assign below on the Inspection report when you go for inspection. Just make sure the inspector makes the year a 1965 for the cobra roadster
Year = 1965
Make = Composite
Model = Cobra
Body Style = Roadster

[Badfish]

Correct, I’m titled as a 2004. But as I mentioned above, DMV will change me to 1965. However, they state that composite vehicles are not eligible for classic plates. I could retitle, then try to get the classic plates separately, but I can’t take the risk that it doesn’t happen, and get served another insane tax bill.

Last September I applied and got classic plates, but by December, DMV cancelled them, stating composite vehicles aren’t eligible. They sent me standard plates. I figured the snag was the title was still 2004. But now I’m told that even with a 65 title, no go on the classic plates.

I’m just tired. I’ve spent the last year appealing assessments, attempting to work with DMV, talking with lawyers, reaching out to the Middletown Common Council, the Mayor, CT Assessors Council. All with no success and a waste of my time and energy. I’m done.

[chmhasy]

Badfish, this is a good article. https://ride-ct.com/classic-vehicle-assessment-in-ct-should-not-exceed-500/

You may want to see if middletown has the "Affidavit of Antique Motor Vehicle" form here is a link to a sample one https://www.stonington-ct.gov/sites/g/files/vyhlif3851/f/uploads/mv_antique_affidavit.pdf
but your town should have one.

I still don't understand if you need the classic plate or not.

[rich grsc]

Good lord, don't understand how that can be, to how you tolerate it. The tax on mine is $6.75 year.

[BadAsp427]

Good lord, don't understand how that can be, to how you tolerate it. The tax on mine is $6.75 year.

I thought mine was good at $16/yr...

[Badfish]

Thanks. Yeah, I think the article is correct, but I think those vehicle examples are 20 years or older. It's BS that anyone should have to justify it, it should kick in at 20 years automatically for production vehicles. It's also BS that kit cars are subject to these assessments at all. I'm paying property tax on my build labor and the new brake pads on put on it!!

SEMA needs to get involved, and Factory Five risks losing sales for folks who fear $30K in vehicle property taxes over a 20 year period.

My understanding is our vehicles are not considered antiques, defined as: "Antique, rare or special interest motor vehicle" means a motor vehicle twenty years old or older which is being preserved because of historic interest and which is not altered or modified from the original manufacturer's specifications.

So, not eligible for classic plates (per DMV), at least not until it's 20 years old (still waiting for DMV to confirm for composite vehicles).

For guys who have gotten classic plates, I can't tell you why or why not, or how long it will last.


Badfish, this is a good article. https://ride-ct.com/classic-vehicle-assessment-in-ct-should-not-exceed-500/

You may want to see if middletown has the "Affidavit of Antique Motor Vehicle" form here is a link to a sample one https://www.stonington-ct.gov/sites/g/files/vyhlif3851/f/uploads/mv_antique_affidavit.pdf
but your town should have one.

I still don't understand if you need the classic plate or not.

[Badfish]

Hey guys. I've been emailing with CT DMV, thought it worth sharing this information regarding their position on classic plates for kit cars. I wouldn't be surprised if at some point, folks get their classic plates pulled based on their comments below.

DMV: A replica/Composite vehicle will not qualify for an antique plate due to the State Statute. This passage can be found within Statutes: 14-16a, 14-103a.

“Antique, rare or special interest motor vehicle’ means a motor vehicle twenty years old or older which is being preserved because of historic interest and which is not altered or modified from the original manufacturer's specifications;”​
The above passage was sent to me from our Agency Legal Director​

Me: So a composite vehicle is never eligible, even after it’s 20 years old? It's my understanding that numerous composite vehicles have received (and currently have) classic plates in CT, vehicles that were originally inspected and titled in CT. Why is the statute not applied equally across these vehicles?

DMV: These vehicles should not have antique plates. Unfortunately, some of these have been registered that way in error. We have been working with CVSD and our legal department to correct this.

Me: So just to clarify, even after a kit car / composite vehicle is 20 year old, it is still not eligible for classic plates?

DMV: Per legal, the statute states that a replica, kit, or composite does not qualify.

[RFracer]

Hey guys. I've been emailing with CT DMV, thought it worth sharing this information regarding their position on classic plates for kit cars. I wouldn't be surprised if at some point, folks get their classic plates pulled based on their comments below.

DMV: A replica/Composite vehicle will not qualify for an antique plate due to the State Statute. This passage can be found within Statutes: 14-16a, 14-103a.

“Antique, rare or special interest motor vehicle’ means a motor vehicle twenty years old or older which is being preserved because of historic interest and which is not altered or modified from the original manufacturer's specifications;”​
The above passage was sent to me from our Agency Legal Director​

Me: So a composite vehicle is never eligible, even after it’s 20 years old? It's my understanding that numerous composite vehicles have received (and currently have) classic plates in CT, vehicles that were originally inspected and titled in CT. Why is the statute not applied equally across these vehicles?

DMV: These vehicles should not have antique plates. Unfortunately, some of these have been registered that way in error. We have been working with CVSD and our legal department to correct this.

Me: So just to clarify, even after a kit car / composite vehicle is 20 year old, it is still not eligible for classic plates?

DMV: Per legal, the statute states that a replica, kit, or composite does not qualify.
This is really awful. I live next town north of you in Cromwell. Have been looking at a few complete or nearly complete cars. Really don’t need the burden of a $1,200 tax bill for a toy. As happened with you in Middletown our tax assessments have recently climbed significantly north of 30%. The recent shift in reduced state aid to towns in lieu of actual income and sales tax increases has created local substantial budget short falls which = raise revenue where they can. Sadly not much any of us can do.

[Badfish]

Yes, it's awful. Another forum member from Rocky Hill reached out to me on the same topic. Connecticut is killing the kit car hobby. We are in a minority and being taken advantage of.

Without either protection at the DMV level (classic plates) or some other sort of cap at the town / assessment level, we are exposed to whatever the tax assessor wants to price it at; and no support from the (1-person) appeal board. These people don't know a hubcap from a steering wheel.

Middletown finally posted the meeting minutes from the appeals. Not only did the board not approve my appeal, they wrote it up incorrectly. Makes you wonder how much time he took in considering the evidence I presented. Looks like they are declining other classic cars as well. Not sure the circumstances and why those folks do not already have classic plates, but appears to me those cars should be capped at $500 assessments. Instead, the appeals were declined.

I had no success reaching out to the Middletown Mayor or common council. Needs to be addressed at the state level. We need an advocate like Factory Five, ERA or SEMA to carry the flag here.

I had a 17-year old kit. $1500 per year in vehicle property tax is unsustainable, unjustified, unethical and board line criminal. My dream car is gone, hope you guys fair out better than me.

[Papa]

So, I see that CT assesses the taxable value at 70% of clean retail. What did the assessor determine as the value of your car? Did he/she look at actual retail sales or asking prices? Did they look at just FFR values or include other "Cobra" values like Superformance and Backdraft? Are other jurisdictions assessing values the same way or is this just affecting your area? I wouldn't surrender yet, and might consider hiring a lawyer to help you and potentially others with a class action suit. Just looking at your $1,700 number and assuming a $28,000 average retail value for FFR cars sold (based on recent eBay completed sales), your tax rate is ~6% per year. What do you pay for other cars?

[Badfish]

Hey Papa, all good questions.

The bill states Gross and Net assessments at $40,250. Not sure why both these values are the same, as (to your point) it should be 70% of the Gross assessment. If that's the case, they are assessing the car at $57,500! $40,250 * Middletown mill rate 35.80 yields the annual tax of $1,440.

As mentioned prior, feedback from the assessors was they used 'google and autotrader' since it's not in NADA. When I asked the assessors to provide the documentation used, neither assessor could produce it. Neither could confirm they only looked at Factory Five. Their excuse last year was they didn't know what kit it was, since the registration states 'Composite'. At appeals last year, and prior to this year's assessment, I provided my documentation, a powerpoint summary, also provided examples of similar builds (and not similar examples) for sale. Obviously didn't help, instead they raised the assessment in 2020. Seems like retaliation for appealing it in 2019.

Assessments and tax payer treatment seem to vary by town. I reached out to the CT assessor's council, but they couldn't provide much information and stated they are only a training council.

They know they have you by the b*lls since a lawyer is costly, and who's to say the assessor won't raise the assessment the following year? It's an annual assessment. A class action suit against the state might be a path though. We need a louder voice.

My 2015 daily driver is about $600 per year, and the 68 Stang is $17 since it has Classic plates.

So, no success with the assessors or appeal board, and no relief from DMV on classic plates (even after 20 years). Again, CT residents should be mindful and take this into account of this prior to purchasing a kit.

[rich grsc]

Sounds like you pied in someones cheerios to me.

[Badfish]

Maybe, maybe I dated his daughter at one time, maybe he saw me driving around town and is jealous of my car and good looks, maybe he has small hands, I don't know, but it's BS.

[Badfish]

Hey guys, not much to report, but I was pinged by a few folks, so thought I'd share the latest:


As it sits today, "composite vehicles are not, and are never eligible for classic plates, even after the chassis is 20 years old." In CT, 20 years is the threshold for vehicles to receive classic plates, and therefore the assessments are capped at $500.


My understanding is the proposed bill died with the transportation committee, despite my (and others) emails and reaching out. Not sure if it was even reviewed or discussed.


I did ping the senator who proposed the bill a few times last year, but didn't get any further responses. I recently engaged the Middletown state rep, and although he's been responsive, not sure where it will go. I think the state senators and reps may engage more this year, since it's an election year for many, so maybe we can get another bill or ruling change going.


I did meet with the CT car council several times, who have been helpful. As I mentioned above, they expressed concern on how the proposed bill was drafted by the senator, so they are taking the lead to engage DMV. They are planning to reach out to DMV to discuss how composite vehicles are registered, so hopefully that happens early this year.


Prior to sitting with the council, I did reach out to DMV directly again last year, received one response, but nothing since then.


I don't see there being any progress at the town assessor level, so likely hit or miss on the amount of financial abuse you will receive, depending on the CT town people live in. I did see in Middletown, CT another cobra owner being assessed at an astronomical amount. Looks like he got a 'reduction' on his 1998 cobra when he went to appeals. Looking at the meeting minutes, appears there has been a change in the board members, however the assessors remain the same. Therefore, you would continue to rely on the appeals process for any reduction. https://www.middletownct.gov/AgendaC..._09222021-6488 (https://www.middletownct.gov/AgendaCenter/ViewFile/Minutes/_09222021-6488)


I think it's going to take some loud voices for a change at DMV. As mentioned, the CT car council is involved. I think we need the voice of the small businesses (ERA, Vintage, etc) in CT who could be harmed (loss of business) by DMV's current position.


I certainly would not be purchasing a kit today knowing that it will be assessed at $45K+, and therefore I would be paying $1500+ in annual property tax (with no end in sight) for a hobby car that I drive a few days a month, a few months a year. Not sure how others feel, but not worth the annual premium for a 'composite vehicle' that I built in my garage.

[Papa]

I was going to recommend that you reach out to a collector car council for CT if one existed. The Colorado Collector Car Council (http://collectorcarcouncil.com/) was instrumental in lobbying for the protection of our hobby in Colorado. Perhaps you could reach out to them and see if they may be able to offer recommendations to their CT counterparts.

[JDFinley]

Very sorry to read of your plight! I've seen this scenario play out a number of times over the years. My attention was first drawn to it decades ago with friends back home in Montana having to sell their properties and move away because of massive tax increases. Aircraft owners and boaters have similar fights. These discussions often erupt in arguments about 'tax evasion' vs 'tax avoidance' when they should really be about 'tax fairness' (in my opinion). Aircraft owners are rich. Boat owners are rich. Fancy car owners are rich. Anyway... if it were me, I would look carefully at getting the car registered somewhere else. I can imagine scenarios like an out of state child owning/registering it (and you storing it at your home) or even an LLC in another state. All of those are fraught with problems (so be careful) but when talking about $15,000 over ten years, maybe one of them makes some sense.

[chmhasy]

I think as a collective group we should first compile a list of how a composite gets registered, for example, a cobra replica/composite gets registered as a Year = 1965, Make = manufacturer of the replica, Model = Cobra, Body Style = roadster

If the replica / composite is registered as a model year 20 years or older the vehicle would be entitled to classic plates.

If a car was previously registered as something else. The owner should be able to have the registerition changed to match the replica / composite model of the car it replicates.

I think first we should talk to the CT car council to see what else we should include (which I think badfish has done), then get a willing CT representative to write up a bill for us. And here is the big part for us to get involved
All of us in the state need to contact by phone your local representative and continue to keep in touch with them on voting for the bill, heck we could all meet with our cars in Hartford while the representative are in session to show them our hobby, give them rides explain the good the hobby does for the community,

We really need to have a grassroots movement here.


BTW here is the list of the CT representative https://www.cga.ct.gov/asp/menu/hlist.asp

[Badfish]

Thanks Papa, certainly worth sharing with the council at the next meeting. Thank you.


I was going to recommend that you reach out to a collector car council for CT if one existed. The Colorado Collector Car Council (http://collectorcarcouncil.com/) was instrumental in lobbying for the protection of our hobby in Colorado. Perhaps you could reach out to them and see if they may be able to offer recommendations to their CT counterparts.

JD - 100% agree. As a matter of fact, when I researched history on classic plates for vintage cars, one of the noted statements was that folks with vintage cars are primarily 'middle class' (not rich!).


Very sorry to read of your plight! I've seen this scenario play out a number of times over the years. My attention was first drawn to it decades ago with friends back home in Montana having to sell their properties and move away because of massive tax increases. Aircraft owners and boaters have similar fights. These discussions often erupt in arguments about 'tax evasion' vs 'tax avoidance' when they should really be about 'tax fairness' (in my opinion). Aircraft owners are rich. Boat owners are rich. Fancy car owners are rich. Anyway... if it were me, I would look carefully at getting the car registered somewhere else. I can imagine scenarios like an out of state child owning/registering it (and you storing it at your home) or even an LLC in another state. All of those are fraught with problems (so be careful) but when talking about $15,000 over ten years, maybe one of them makes some sense.

Next council meeting is Feb, the more the merrier! I've joined the last few meetings, and it's a good crew. They suggested the same, on understanding the landscape of composite cars in CT.

100% agree that regardless of the vehicle being a 'composite', the 20 rule should apply. Having eligibility from Day 1 is a harder sell, but not unreasonable in my opinion considering the (assumed) overall low volume of these in the state.

I probably mentioned prior, but DMV is willing to revise my car from a 2004 composite cobra to a 1965, but still holds the position that composites are never eligible for classic plates.

I like the physically movement idea as well.


I think as a collective group we should first compile a list of how a composite gets registered, for example, a cobra replica/composite gets registered as a Year = 1965, Make = manufacturer of the replica, Model = Cobra, Body Style = roadster

If the replica / composite is registered as a model year 20 years or older the vehicle would be entitled to classic plates.

If a car was previously registered as something else. The owner should be able to have the registerition changed to match the replica / composite model of the car it replicates.

I think first we should talk to the CT car council to see what else we should include (which I think badfish has done), then get a willing CT representative to write up a bill for us. And here is the big part for us to get involved
All of us in the state need to contact by phone your local representative and continue to keep in touch with them on voting for the bill, heck we could all meet with our cars in Hartford while the representative are in session to show them our hobby, give them rides explain the good the hobby does for the community,

We really need to have a grassroots movement here.


BTW here is the list of the CT representative https://www.cga.ct.gov/asp/menu/hlist.asp

[Badfish]

Please see update in this thread: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?38466-CT-Owners-Proposed-Bill-No-159-AN-ACT-REDEFINING-quot-ANTIQUE-quot-to-include-REPLICA&p=483167#post483167