347 engine choice

[TMartinLVNV]

I am way ahead of ordering the powertrain. Probably about 6 months out. However, I can dream.... I am set on a 347 SBF. I think it is the right balance between price and performance for me. Right now, I'm comparing the Factory 5 and the Forte, both with the transmission. The price of each is very close and seem to have a similar buildup. Can anyone provide some opinions on which would be a preferred choice? I do plan on taking this car out to the dragstrip and track just for fun.



https://fortesparts.com/index.php/product/fortes-parts-347-engine-package-bestseller/

https://www.factoryfiveengines.com/blueprint-engines-factory-five-engines/blueprint-engines-mk4-roadster-engines/blueprint-engines-ford-347-carbureted-mk4

Terry

[NAZ]

"I do plan on taking this car out to the dragstrip and track just for fun."

Read the rule book before you start your build.

[Mark Eaton]

I went with a Forte 347 with Holley Sniper EFI. Very happy with it and Mike is very helpful and responsive even now 2 years after my purchase. Goodluck!

Mark

[TMartinLVNV]

Thanks Mark, your build is one that I have printed out and in my assembly notebook.


Terry

[FF33rod]

I have the utmost respect for Blueprint (Factory five engines), they have great packages and have super support. The Forte 347 is basedon a Dart block whuch will be more robust andcapable of producing more power if you change parts down the road.

[mike223]

"I do plan on taking this car out to the dragstrip and track just for fun."

Read the rule book before you start your build.

+1

Times change, and the insurance company safety nazis demand a NHRA / IHRA approved 6 point bar under 13.59 for a "convertible" (and you'll not likely make that work in a "safe" "street" roadster).

Below 11.49 you'd need a certified cage (regardless of what you see on youtube).


Pretty hard to go wrong with a 347 from a reputable builder - not necessarily easy to pass tech at the dragstrip...

[CraigS]

Have you considered a 351? Stronger main cap bolts, stronger head bolts, stronger oil pump shaft, same displacement w/ no need for crazy rods and pistons.

[jrcuz]

If you go with Mike Forte's Dart 347 make sure you get his motor mounts he has for the Dart block. I used the mounts with the FFR complete kit and had to "massage" them with a grinder so they would fit. Also I would get a Quicktime bell housing, I didn't and wish I had if I ever want to do any track days.
JR

[Papa]

I can't speak to Mike's engines, but my experience with BluePrint has been fantastic. My 347 came completely assembled, including the clutch and transmission. I'd bet it is as close to plug and play as you'll find from any source for a FFR car.

Dave

[TMartinLVNV]

+1

Times change, and the insurance company safety nazis demand a NHRA / IHRA approved 6 point bar under 13.59 for a "convertible" (and you'll not likely make that work in a "safe" "street" roadster).

Below 11.49 you'd need a certified cage (regardless of what you see on youtube).


Pretty hard to go wrong with a 347 from a reputable builder - not necessarily easy to pass tech at the dragstrip...

I used to do bracket racing about 20 years ago. I haven't been back to the strip since, and never in a convertible.

[TMartinLVNV]

I can't speak to Mike's engines, but my experience with BluePrint has been fantastic. My 347 came completely assembled, including the clutch and transmission. I'd bet it is as close to plug and play as you'll find from any source for a FFR car.

Dave

Papa, did you go with the carb or FI? The single part number "plug and play" is what I like most about the BluePrint option. I'm going to read through your build tonight when I have more time.

Thanks,

Terry

[TMartinLVNV]

If you go with Mike Forte's Dart 347 make sure you get his motor mounts he has for the Dart block. I used the mounts with the FFR complete kit and had to "massage" them with a grinder so they would fit. Also I would get a Quicktime bell housing, I didn't and wish I had if I ever want to do any track days.
JR

I'm reading through Mark Eaton's build and he had this exact issue with the motor mounts.

[scottiec]

To echo CraigS and others, go with a 351 or Dart based block if you want extra cubes. I hate to throw the anecdotal horror story in the thread..... but...... Motor #2 is coming out of the car. I ordered a Dart 363 block last night. If I were doing this all over again, I would have started with a 351 based engine.

[GoDadGo]

To echo CraigS and others, go with a 351 or Dart based block if you want extra cubes. I hate to throw the anecdotal horror story in the thread..... but...... Motor #2 is coming out of the car. I ordered a Dart 363 block last night. If I were doing this all over again, I would have started with a 351 based engine.

Regarding a 347 vs 351, I don't know much about Ford power plants, but DART make GOOD PARTS!

Regarding Scottiec's issue; Dang That Stinks Mr. Scott!

[Big Blocker]

Engines look almost identical . . . personally, I'd go with an EFI upgrade for all around driving conditions. knowing where you live means you will want to go to the mountains (there are no "twisty roads" on the desert floor) and might even want to experience the Huntington Beach Cruise-In next year (if you get the car to gel-coat drivable by end of April). That means from sea-level to 10K feet . . . somewhat tough to do with a carb <-- just my 2¢. If you ever want to add power adders like turbos or a blower, go with the Dart block version.

Suspension upgrades are called for if you want to track or auto-cross the car - different mods then for drag cars.

Also just an opinion, I agree with the statements above about going to a 351. I've never been a fan of pushing out an engine to its limits (stroke and bore) when another engine is available that is already that size. I understand your need for a small block "footprint" in the engine compartmenthaving read your posts about big-n-tall guys . . . the foot box mods for more interior room are more easily done and more beneficial with a SBF.

All just my opinion - helping you to find ways to spend your money . . . Ha Ha Ha

Doc

[Papa]

Papa, did you go with the carb or FI? The single part number "plug and play" is what I like most about the BluePrint option. I'm going to read through your build tonight when I have more time.

Thanks,

Terry

I went EFI with power steering. When you order from BPE, that's all you need to specify and they do all the work mounting, installing, etc. all the components.

[David Williamson]

If you plan to track the car I would go either 351 or Dart/Boss block
David W

[TMartinLVNV]

I would love to have the 351 based motor. I would also love to have a 427 based motor. However, I'm going to have to get a second job at Jack in the Box drive through working the midnight shift to stretch the budget for EFI in a small block. I'm very sure that a small block will get me over the mountains into California. A small block will be able to get the car around the track, just for fun, without exploding, and put a smile on my face. A small block will not throw a rod or spin a main bearing going WOT to get onto the highway.

I have no plans or desire to install a supercharger, nitrous, or a turbo "down the road." I want a motor, that is the best compromise for dollar spent for performance for a street car. I'm willing to bet that a small block will last 50k + miles with the occasional spirited driving session.

Thanks for the opinions, there is so much information to learn.

[Mark Reynolds]

Just to clarify, a 351 is a small block.

[Big Blocker]

Not to step on anyone's toes but 351's are actually medium blocks . . . no one calls them that but "old FORD guys". 351's (Windsor) are a different block than SBF's and don't have many interchangeable parts. They are wider, taller and heavier.

Old FORD guys will tell you that SBF's are: 221, 260, 289, 302 (5.0) - medium blocks are: 351 & the little spoken about 400, BIG blocks (FE's) are: 332, 352, 390, 406, 410, 427 and 428 (two different engines even though they are 1 Cubic Inch apart). Some throw in the 429 and 460 as Big Blocks, although they are a completely different block than the FE's, with NO interchangeable parts.
All the engines mentioned can be made to be bigger displacement-wise.

Generically, the [approx.] weight between those mentioned is: SBF = 450, Medium block = 550, Big Block = 670, 429/460 = 640 (due to the design of the "V" block, similar to a SBF). All can be made quite a few pounds lighter with aluminum manifolds and heads, even more so with aluminum blocks. For contrast, an all aluminum Big Block weighs what a cast iron SBF weighs, approximately . . .

Just bringing some facts to the table

[Randy's]

Another vote here for the Blueprint 347. I'm just now in go kart stage so I have not pushed the drive train but the dyno shows roughly 420 HP and 420 foot pounds of torque. More than enough. The best part was how easy it was to install the engine and wire up the Holley Sniper EFI. I'm not sure how much closer you can get to "plug and play".

[TMartinLVNV]

Randy, that is what attracts me to the Blueprint. I do like the Dart block of the Forte build though. I think his will be just a bit more expensive than the Blueprint. I could accept that. However, his seems to be down about 40 hp than what Blueprints are getting.

In the end, I don't think that the Forte will be much more difficult to install than the Blueprint. The motor mounts will need to be the correct ones for the Dart block.

I did decide to go with FI over the carb. I already changed my order with FFR to add the in tank fuel system. I grew up in the FI age (44 years old) and am much more familiar with them than carbs.

Terry

[phileas_fogg]

To echo CraigS and others, go with a 351 or Dart based block if you want extra cubes. I hate to throw the anecdotal horror story in the thread..... but...... Motor #2 is coming out of the car. I ordered a Dart 363 block last night. If I were doing this all over again, I would have started with a 351 based engine.

D**m dude; three engines in less than a year! You're going to give Chepsk8 a run for his money!


John

[Desert Snake]

http://fortesparts.com/index.php/dealers-page/

Forte lists himself as a blueprint dealer. Am I missing something? I thought the 347 from Mike was a blueprint. And I thought they were both dart blocks.

[scottiec]

D**m dude; three engines in less than a year! You're going to give Chepsk8 a run for his money!


John

Kids - Don't do junkyards.

[ChasNMe]

Forte's website shows a coyote and 3 different Dart block motors. the 347 has 2 vids, one mild and one wild. difference looks to be about 80 Hp or so and 30 tq. My guess would be a little more cost the more Hp/Tq you get but you'll have to call for that info. If he is a "dealer" of the BPE engines, I wonder if it is the FFR version or the Summit/Jegs version. Johnny (the BPE rep that came to the build school) said that the 347 that they make for FFR has better internals than the one from Summit, so you are actually getting a better motor and better deal by getting it from BPE vs calling Summit or another BPE dealer for a 347 BPE . . . . I never heard Johnny say anything about the blocks being Dart. admittedly I don't know anything about engines, but I have heard that name before and would have remembered it. he did say the blocks are all refurbished, except the 427's which is part of why they cost so much more. both websites (Forte's and BPE) have a list of specs and stuff but I don't know how they compare to each other so maybe somebody else can chime in . . . .

PS - heard nothing but good about both BPE and Forte

[KDubU]

Mike’s 347 is a Dart block. He can also make a 347 mild to wild as you like by changing internals. He built my 351 and when he ran out of E303 cam, he took one of his custom racing ones which provided more go and had a great lumpy idle. His engine will be turnkey when you get it and can even connect the transmission for you like he did mine.

[johnnybgoode]

I am way ahead of ordering the powertrain. Probably about 6 months out. However, I can dream.... I am set on a 347 SBF. I think it is the right balance between price and performance for me. Right now, I'm comparing the Factory 5 and the Forte, both with the transmission. The price of each is very close and seem to have a similar buildup. Can anyone provide some opinions on which would be a preferred choice? I do plan on taking this car out to the dragstrip and track just for fun.



https://fortesparts.com/index.php/product/fortes-parts-347-engine-package-bestseller/

https://www.factoryfiveengines.com/blueprint-engines-factory-five-engines/blueprint-engines-mk4-roadster-engines/blueprint-engines-ford-347-carbureted-mk4

Terry

They both look like nice motors but I think I'd go with the Dart block all else being equal. Plus Mike's will be more of a custom build that you could modify to suit your specific needs/desires (e.g upgraded bearings, etc.). If you decide to go with the BP I'd swap the HV oil pump for a std. volume one and do some checking on here to see if the .82 gear in the TKO is what you want. I personally did a complete custom engine that I'm very happy with. My 2 cents. Scott

[jrcuz]

I forgot to mention in my earlier post that I didn't specify a shallow oil pan when I ordered from Mike so he put on a deep oil pan and it was close to 2" below the 4"frame tubes so I had to change the pan after the eng. was installed (rookie error). I used a Canton pan. So make sure you get the shallow pan installed by whom ever you get your eng. from.
JR

[TMartinLVNV]

Thanks for the info JR. Did you get the "mild" or "power" build? What did your dyno sheet say the output was?

Terry

[Papa]

Here is the dyno sheet for my BluePrint 347:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=84569&d=1524421786

[jrcuz]

Terry, I got kind of a mild build. HP368+ and Torque 384+ @5850 rpm
JR

[Tuftster]

I also went with Mike and so far he's been great to work with and very helpful. I haven't been able to get to the point of even starting it yet but I'm sure this thing will be plenty fun. It's a 347 Dart block with Holley Sniper and TKO all fully assembled.

109648

109649

[TMartinLVNV]

Tufster, did you go with a "Power" build? Your numbers are considerably higher than what I've seen his other 347 motors at.

That is an impressive motor!

[Tuftster]

I just called Mike and told him I wanted around 450 hp in a good steerable motor. He chose the components and worked his magic. Give him a call. Super knowledgeable and easy to work with.