Body Fit and lasered holes

[Dwleo]

Well, today the body went on and it was fairly straight forward except that even though the body is fitted tight at the bottom of the trunk and the front is right on, the lasered holes I PAID EXTRA FOR do not all line up or not the right size. The taillight and turn sigs front and back had to be enlarged to allow the units to seat properly. One of the holes in the body to accept the bolt for the rear outriders didn't accept it. I had to grind it into an oval to allow it to fit. The passenger side roll bar was off as well - grind it out. The worst one is the headers 4 in 4. They are 2" out towards the front. I have to cut out 2" which puts it really close to the wheel opening.

Anyone else have these problems?

[Itchief]

Have you mounted the headlight buckets yet just another part of the build

Rick

[brewha]

I think we all had these issues. Before you cut the header openings make sure your motor is balanced on the engine mounts. The end of the headers should be the same height off your floor on each side. There is about an inch that you can move the ends by just re-adjusting the motor on its mounts.

[Dwleo]

I think we all had these issues. Before you cut the header openings make sure your motor is balanced on the engine mounts. The end of the headers should be the same height off your floor on each side. There is about an inch that you can move the ends by just re-adjusting the motor on its mounts.

Motors balanced and the height is the same. Something I checked during the go-cart stage

[edwardb]

The body cutouts aren't laser cut. They're hand cut with patterns at final shipping when the kit is assembled for shipment. I've always found the quick jack holes to be right on, and would be very cautious about adjusting those. The side pipe cutouts are purposely undersized due to the variety of headers and side pipes. I would be a little concerned if you're so far forward your cutting into the wheel lip though. Something doesn't sound exactly right there. The rest, well the cutouts are a starting point and it's very normal to require adjustment. The glass is easy to cut/trim, and I'd personally rather cut to fit then fill/repair something that was supposed to be exact and wasn't. There are just so many variations with these builds. Not making excuses, it's just part of the process. Yes, you paid for them. But my feeling is adjusting an existing cutout is still easier than locating and making the cut initially, and leaving them slightly undersized allows me to get them exact for my build.

[Jeff Kleiner]

As Paul said the holes are hand cut and intentionally undersized. It sounds like you don't have the body far enough forward. The body's door flange must be fully ahead of the chassis' striker tab as seen here:

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj43/jkleiner/Thomas/100_4665.jpg

If you haven't trimmed back the underside return of the cowl roll you may find that it makes hard contact the dash and won't let you get that far forward without doing so.

Jeff

[Fixit]

Everything that "Edwardb" and Jeff has said is correct - the holes are a starting point - but don't do any major surgery on the QuickJack/Bumper holes.

I was at your stage about 3 or so weeks ago. I also paid extra to have FFR cut the body openings. My line of thought on this was they've done thousands, probably have "production-grade" templates (not a piece of paper), and a screw-up won't cause a ton of rework on my part.
Another thing to consider is having the tools to cut the holes... nearly everybody doing this project should have a few files and sandpaper, and probably a "Dremel" tool by now. This is a minimal investment compared to hole saw sets, die grinders, and air saws.

Take a look here. (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?27544-The-40-Watt-Garage-9365-Windshield&p=363827&viewfull=1#post363827) It's the start of a few threads detailing the body fitment on my car. Every pre-cut hole required a bit of "sweetening" - and I'm glad! Better to be a bit undersize and trim to perfect, than too big and "oh crap". (Trust me, a bit of filing and sanding on 'glass is a WHOLE LOT easier than trying to get a repro steel fender/quarter panel to fit!!)

[ckrueger]

I third what Jeff said. I trimmed the lip on the front and rear cockpit for my test fits and I believe Jeff trimmed a little more once it got out to his place. The under size holes build in flexibility. Everything about these kits are a starting point and allows us to take them wherever we want. In the end it will work out for you. Just part of the adventure.

[Dwleo]

Everything that "Edwardb" and Jeff has said is correct - the holes are a starting point - but don't do any major surgery on the QuickJack/Bumper holes.

Yeah, I wondered about that when they would not line up. Measured the overriders and they were both the same. Measured the body openings and the pass side was out 3/16" on the bottom hole.

I remember the first roadster I built 11 years ago and I had some minor trimming to do on the exhaust cutouts, it wasn't this big a deal.

[Dwleo]

As Paul said the holes are hand cut and intentionally undersized. It sounds like you don't have the body far enough forward. The body's door flange must be fully ahead of the chassis' striker tab as seen here:

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj43/jkleiner/Thomas/100_4665.jpg

If you haven't trimmed back the underside return of the cowl roll you may find that it makes hard contact the dash and won't let you get that far forward without doing so.

Jeff

The body cannot go forward anymore unless I cut off a portion of the trunk floor (it's right tight there) and then cut down the spacers on the overriders bolts and that ain't happening.

[Dwleo]

As Paul said the holes are hand cut and intentionally undersized. It sounds like you don't have the body far enough forward. The body's door flange must be fully ahead of the chassis' striker tab as seen here:

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj43/jkleiner/Thomas/100_4665.jpg

If you haven't trimmed back the underside return of the cowl roll you may find that it makes hard contact the dash and won't let you get that far forward without doing so.

Jeff

The body cannot go forward anymore unless I cut off a portion of the trunk floor (it's right tight there) and then cut down the spacers on the overriders bolts and that ain't happening.

[Dwleo]

Everything that "Edwardb" and Jeff has said is correct - the holes are a starting point - but don't do any major surgery on the QuickJack/Bumper holes.

I was at your stage about 3 or so weeks ago. I also paid extra to have FFR cut the body openings. My line of thought on this was they've done thousands, probably have "production-grade" templates (not a piece of paper), and a screw-up won't cause a ton of rework on my part.
Another thing to consider is having the tools to cut the holes... nearly everybody doing this project should have a few files and sandpaper, and probably a "Dremel" tool by now. This is a minimal investment compared to hole saw sets, die grinders, and air saws.

Take a look here. (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?27544-The-40-Watt-Garage-9365-Windshield&p=363827&viewfull=1#post363827) It's the start of a few threads detailing the body fitment on my car. Every pre-cut hole required a bit of "sweetening" - and I'm glad! Better to be a bit undersize and trim to perfect, than too big and "oh crap". (Trust me, a bit of filing and sanding on 'glass is a WHOLE LOT easier than trying to get a repro steel fender/quarter panel to fit!!)

Here's a pic of the header opening. (ooops. upside down)

[Jeff Kleiner]

The body cannot go forward anymore unless I cut off a portion of the trunk floor (it's right tight there) and then cut down the spacers on the overriders bolts and that ain't happening.

Cutting back the rearmost lip of the trunk floor is very common. I also never use the internal quick jack/overrider spacers. All part of making it fit. As far as your headers and the body cutouts---the visual is very deceiving and the way they appear now is not an indicator of how things will actually be with the splash panels and pipes installed. With all that said though I bet the body needs to come forward.

Jeff

[edwardb]

What Jeff said. Assuming you can get the body forward some, and what will happen with the splash guards, you're not as far off that opening as you may think. The pipes come out curved and somewhat down. Not straight off the end of the header as in the angle of that picture. When it comes time to fit the pipes and start cutting, do it with the pipes and trimming a little at a time. At least from that picture, it's not going to be the 2-inches you said initially. Also BTW, most of us don't use those gaskets. Metal-to-metal with high temp RTV works very well.

[GoDadGo]

Dwleo,

Jeff Kleiner & Edwardb know these cars better than anybody and have helped me a great deal.
Dig through Edwardb's two MK4 build threads because they will really help you a lot.
Also, any advice that these two gentlemen give you is ROCK SOLID!
The video below documents one of the many tips I've received:

https://youtu.be/_3sLamdkIFg

Steve

[Dwleo]

Today is one of the backwards steps that seem almost necessary in these builds. Off come the over riders, drop the tank and off come the rear ones. Raise body and cut trunk aluminum and side wall aluminum. Then trim dash cowl and rear one and then maybe, just maybe everything will fit.

[AC Bill]

Daryl, this isn't your first rodeo.. You know that progress on a build, actually means doing thinks twice, sometimes more..:p

I bet the cockpit rolled edge, which is new to the MK4, could definitely be playing a roll in this. I read numerous posts about having to trim that, especially when the MK4's first came out. That seemed to be more of an issue then the trunk aluminum, although that too, was an issue for some.

I wouldn't worry about cutting the over-rider spacer tubes to much, if needed.. You can buy new matching stainless tubing, if worse comes to worse. I would perhaps look at using the coupling nut/ready rod method, for the rears. Save you dropping the tank again, if you need to make future adjustments when doing final body fitting. If you don't like the look of the coupling nut, etc., being visible when you open the trunk, you could do what I did, and use jam nuts on the ready rod, but hidden under the trunk floor. It takes a bit more effort, but looks far more finished.

Pain in the butt that it is, I didn't trim my exhaust openings until after the splash shields were in place, the windshield was mounted, and the body lined up correctly. There's a bit of an illusion as to how the headers line up with the opening, until you actually bolt the side-pipes on, and actually see how much trimming is needed. It took a lot less trimming then I initially thought it would.
I found the best tool for that job, was a small drum sander designed for use with a drill. Those smaller Dremel type drums, really aren't great for that job.

[phileas_fogg]

You're on the right path; I too had to trim the rear edge of the lower trunk panel, and also had to trim the dash cowl.


... I didn't trim my exhaust openings until after the splash shields were in place, the windshield was mounted, and the body lined up correctly. There's a bit of an illusion as to how the headers line up with the opening, until you actually bolt the side-pipes on, and actually see how much trimming is needed. It took a lot less trimming then I initially thought it would.
I found the best tool for that job, was a small drum sander designed for use with a drill. Those smaller Dremel type drums, really aren't great for that job.

I did the same before opening up the exhaust cutouts, and used the same tool.

As Itchief suggests, pay close attention to your headlight buckets. The stock mounting holes were in the wrong place, such that the lettering on the bulb was easily 15-20* off from level.


John

[Dwleo]

The last two days were so nice I drove it out of the garage, undid all the previous work (over riders, side pipes, etc.), pushed up the back of the body and supported it to a point where it was about 6" above the dash (yes. it was previously solid against it). Trimmed the trunk floor and sides about 7/16", cut then sanded the dash cowl, then dropped (figuratively) the body back down. Fits nicer now. Followed the da Bat's suggestions for body lineup by working from the back forward. Now the doors are next. Tentatively mounted them and could see where trimming will be necessary going forward. Two steps forward and 1 1/2 steps back.

[rich grsc]

The last two days were so nice I drove it out of the garage, undid all the previous work (over riders, side pipes, etc.), pushed up the back of the body and supported it to a point where it was about 6" above the dash (yes. it was previously solid against it). Trimmed the trunk floor and sides about 7/16", cut then sanded the dash cowl, then dropped (figuratively) the body back down. Fits nicer now. Followed the da Bat's suggestions for body lineup by working from the back forward. Now the doors are next. Tentatively mounted them and could see where trimming will be necessary going forward. Two steps forward and 1 1/2 steps back.

So where did "da bat" give you a suggestion for body line up?
Perhaps "captain O"? If thats the case somebody may have hurt feelings, and need some rum.:rolleyes:

[Dwleo]

So where did "da bat" give you a suggestion for body line up?
Perhaps "captain O"? If thats the case somebody may have hurt feelings, and need some rum.:rolleyes:

From here
https://www.ffcars.com/forums/17-factory-five-roadsters/558305-body-installation.html

Check post #14 & #20