View Full Version : Power Steering Leak
The one gremlin I've had on this build is a power steering fluid leak.
After a drive, it is clear that some PS fluid is leaking, but I'm having trouble finding the source. I do have small puddles on the floor after parking, but it doesn't drain the system completely. I also see fluid splattered on the frame tubes, so I would guess that some is leaking as the car is moving.
My hose clamps all appear to be tight and I dont see any cracks in the hoses.
Additionally, when I was messing with it yesterday, I noticed the fluid in the reservoir was frothy.
Pump is the PS pump provided by FFR circa 2017 (not the KRC version that I believe comes now)
Any suggestions?
Bob Cowan
04-22-2019, 10:33 AM
Clean it really well, and then let it dry. Sprinkle the area with baby powder or corn starch. Run the engine and turn the wheel side to side. Where the powder turns dark is where the leak is.
Mark Reynolds
04-22-2019, 10:46 AM
Hose clamp(s)? there should not be any hose clamps between the pump and the rack because that needs to be a high pressure rated hose connection.
Frothing - maybe it is a high flow pump for a recirculating ball type steering. A low flow pump is used for rack and pinion. Maybe fluid is exiting the vented cap due to frothing?
Hose clamp(s)? there should not be any hose clamps between the pump and the rack because that needs to be a high pressure rated hose connection.
Frothing - maybe it is a high flow pump for a recirculating ball type steering. A low flow pump is used for rack and pinion. Maybe fluid is exiting the vented cap due to frothing?
I have hose clamps on the hoses to/from the reservoir. The lines from the pump to the rack are the high pressure type with a screw on nut.
Both the pump and the rack were a part of the FFR power steering kit, so I would hope they would be compatible with each other.
I definitely think the frothing is causing some of the fluid to escape through the vent hole. So then the question is where is air getting into the system?
Ducky2009
04-22-2019, 02:50 PM
My fill cap was spitting fluid out of the vent hole. Try this to check it. Take a paper towel and place the paper towel over the fill cap, hold on with a rubber band. I lowered the fluid level a little to remedy the issue. Fluid is now about 2/3 full.
Also: I added a O-Ring to the relief groove, where the vent hole goes through the cap. Not big enough to block the hole but cover most of it.
I drove for about an hour yesterday and was still leaking. There is definitely some coming out of the reservoir cap, but when I opened it after the drive it was not frothy this time. It was, however, extremely hot. My pump is also making a whining noise.
I figure my options are: replace reservoir and see if that fixes it (but skeptical this is the cause of the issue), then move on to the pump & lines. If I'm doing that, I'd like to upgrade to the KRC pump that now come with the coyote power steering kit as that seems like a much better unit. But doing that would also require new brackets, pulleys, etc.
Other option is to ditch the hydraulic setup and go with electric power steering from epowersteering.com. I'd connect the rack lines to each other and not switch to a manual rack. This would be cheaper than an entirely new hydraulic set up and would be adjustable and eliminate the leaks for good.
Thoughts?
rich grsc
04-24-2019, 12:58 PM
I drove for about an hour yesterday and was still leaking. There is definitely some coming out of the reservoir cap, but when I opened it after the drive it was not frothy this time. It was, however, extremely hot. My pump is also making a whining noise.
I figure my options are: replace reservoir and see if that fixes it (but skeptical this is the cause of the issue), then move on to the pump & lines. If I'm doing that, I'd like to upgrade to the KRC pump that now come with the coyote power steering kit as that seems like a much better unit. But doing that would also require new brackets, pulleys, etc.
Other option is to ditch the hydraulic setup and go with electric power steering from epowersteering.com. I'd connect the rack lines to each other and not switch to a manual rack. This would be cheaper than an entirely new hydraulic set up and would be adjustable and eliminate the leaks for good.
Thoughts?
What fluid are you using? Drain and replace with Honda power steering fluid.
What fluid are you using? Drain and replace with Honda power steering fluid.
I am not using Honda, just normal PSF. The FFR manual just said "Power steering fluid".
What is the difference?
edwardb
04-24-2019, 01:59 PM
...I'd like to upgrade to the KRC pump that now come with the coyote power steering kit as that seems like a much better unit. But doing that would also require new brackets, pulleys, etc...
The KRC Coyote setup includes everything except the hoses. Bracket, pump, flow control valve, new water pump pulley and belt, and the latest version has an integral tank which eliminates one hose. You only have the two hoses from and to the rack, with all -AN fittings. I'd recommend also switching to the lowest rated flow control valve. Gives just the right feel. I've used this setup twice and it's top notch. I wouldn't give up on what you have too easily. But if you choose to go with KRC, it's basically a bolt-in job.
No need to debate it here, but you'll get different opinions about the add-on EPAS systems. You're frustrated with leaks right now, which I completely understand. But hydraulic PS has been done for decades and doesn't need to leak. I haven't had any leaking issues with the three systems I've installed. (Probably shouldn't say that out loud...) Honda PS fluid has been used by a number of forum members, including me, and has a reputation for running cooler. Isn't going to do anything about leaking though, obviously. Side note, KRC doesn't recommend the Honda fluid. No surprise, they recommend their own house brand.
Ducky2009
04-24-2019, 02:06 PM
I originally had a problem with a major leak. Don't think that's what you are describing, but.... In case it is.
The fitting "inside" the reservoir that diverts the fluid 90 degrees (should be on the return line from the rack) came loose. The pressure was then flowing straight up, towards the cap. That emptied the reservoir completely. After in-installing the fitting and filling it back up, the fluid foamed up. After talking to a mechanic friend, he though it was possible that air was in the pump, cavitating. The suggested way to fit the problem, turn the pump "slowly" to pump the air through the system. After doing that, the foaming problem went away.
More of a question, for anyone who might know. Brake fluid comes in Dot 2, 3, 4 and 5. Higher numbers work well in higher heat applications. Is the same true for power steering fluid?
Ducky2009
04-24-2019, 02:17 PM
The KRC Coyote setup.......... I'd recommend also switching to the lowest rated flow control valve.
Question: Paul, or anyone, Do you know if the FFR power steering (that was supplied in 2017 era that Joel and I have) also has a Lower Rated Flow Valve?
CraigS
04-24-2019, 05:04 PM
My experience w/ the Honda fluid (from the dealer not AZ) was when I started losing assist on hot days 3/4 of the way through an autocross run. Honda fixed the problem maybe 80%. A cooler was the final fix but I always use Honda fluid now.
edwardb
04-24-2019, 07:03 PM
Question: Paul, or anyone, Do you know if the FFR power steering (that was supplied in 2017 era that Joel and I have) also has a Lower Rated Flow Valve?
I don't know for sure. As I recall, the previous PS pump (before they switched to KRC) was an older style Ford mod motor OE pump. Don't think those have changeable valves. Cutting a spring is a common mod for GM pumps. Not sure that applies to the Ford pump. A Heidts valve is another option.
wareaglescott
04-24-2019, 07:40 PM
Question: Paul, or anyone, Do you know if the FFR power steering (that was supplied in 2017 era that Joel and I have) also has a Lower Rated Flow Valve?
I wasn't even aware the system contained a flow valve. Is that integral to the pump?
I have the same crappy system as you and Joel. My fitting inside the reservoir also came out recently causing total fluid loss. Power steering issues with that system seem to nag me also.
Joel I was getting a little fluid loss early on. I snugged up the fitting on the pump exit going to the rack input and that helped. Maybe give that one a turn.
Over the weekend, I drained my fluid and refilled with Honda fluid.
Additionally, I moved the reservoir further off the f-panel. When I was removing the lines to drain, I noticed that the return line to the reservoir was pressed tightly against the frame rail. While not quite causing a kink, it likely impacted a clear flow - i'm thinking this could have caused additional pressure and contributed to my leak. I couldn't move the reservoir up much (hood strut interference) and moving it forward or backward created interference with the brake lines. So creating a bracket that moved it about 2" off the panel was my best option. This also created a smoother radius on the exit line from my Derale power steering cooler to the reservoir.
I did a quick neighborhood drive for a leak check and it looked fine.
I also drove into work this morning (~40 min) and a quick inspection showed no signs of leaking or spewing. I'll do a more comprehensive review when I get home tonight, but hopefully this solved it. Thanks for the encouragement to fix it instead of replacing the system.
Here is the bracket:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=106591&d=1556717749
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=106590&d=1556717743
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=106589&d=1556717736
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=106588&d=1556717729
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=106587&d=1556717723
It was also a great place to put my FFR VIN badge
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=106586&d=1556717714