Jeff's Roadster Build (GRADUATED Sept 2021)

[jeffisfast]

Hi Everyone. Excited to be joining all of you. Just started a build of my Mk4 Roadster with a 347 engine.

Early on, it seems that I've had a few parts of the front suspension missing. So far F5 has been good about replacing the missing parts, but fingers crossed it was just a few small bumps that I found first.

Anyway, I have two questions about the front suspension setup:

When setting up the upper front right control arm, I couldn't get it to the suggested alignment dimensions in the manual. The mounts bottomed out before I could get the right depth. The left side was fine.
After mounting the spindle and torquing the nuts to the specified values, the right spindle is so tight I can't move it. The left spindle, however, is fairly easy to turn. Thoughts on why it would be tight to turn? Might it be related to the above issue with getting the alignment right? What suggestions do you have for me to troubleshoot this, or might it just loosen up later? I'm not sure how loose it should be, or if this indicates a problem with the ailgnment of the upper arm or if the balljoint has an issue. 106114


Thanks everyone!

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[Papa]

Common mistake, but your ball joint mount plate is upside down. You want the ball joint angle to point outward, not inward. In other words, the taller part of where the ball joint threads in should be on the outside of the plate on the top side.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=84472&d=1524416948

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=84474&d=1524417127

[jeffisfast]

Obvious now, thanks for pointing out my mistake.

Question - I see you've painted your aluminum panels. What did you use for that? I've mounted two of mine already, but like the look....

[Papa]

Obvious now, thanks for pointing out my mistake.

Question - I see you've painted your aluminum panels. What did you use for that? I've mounted two of mine already, but like the look....

Easy fix at this point. I sprayed my aluminum panels with Rustoleum bed liner. If I could do it over, I'd have gotten them powder coated or left them bare and wiped them down with Shark Hide.

Dave

[jeffisfast]

Hi everyone. Finally got a week off from work to work on the car! I got the IRS differential in without too much trouble; it needed two people's worth of elbow grease to wiggle into the right place.

Now I'm onto the IRS suspension and having a really tough time installing the lower control arms. It seems that the tabs they should slide inside of are just slightly too narrow, or maybe the bushings the arms came with are slightly too thick. Is there something obvious I'm missing?

Thanks!

[jeffisfast]

Hi everyone. Finally got a week off from work to work on the car! I got the IRS differential in without too much trouble; it needed two people's worth of elbow grease to wiggle into the right place.

Now I'm onto the IRS suspension and having a really tough time installing the lower control arms. It seems that the tabs they should slide inside of are just slightly too narrow, or maybe the bushings the arms came with are slightly too thick. Is there something obvious I'm missing?

Thanks!

Pic of the diff:
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[AC Bill]

Used to be that the tabs were often to wide by a smidgen, so maybe FFR has adjusted the tolerance on new frames. Can you use a rubber mallet to tap the arm in? Perhaps a tap to the tab's themselves. to spread them a bit?

[edwardb]

Very common for that fit to be tight. Best method in my experience, and the least destructive, is to use a threaded rod to spread them. Put a threaded rod through one tab, then a washer, a nut, run them all the way to one side, then another nut and washer. Now turn them so they're trapped inside the tabs, and use a couple wrenches to spread. Usually doesn't take a lot so don't get carried away. I would also suggest putting some grease into the control arms via the zerks. Good chance to make sure the grease is flowing through the bushings and they're fully lubed. Also makes them a little more slippery to install.

[SSNK4US]

Hi Jeff,
You garage picture reminded me that I sent you a PM back in April lol Did you ever get it?

Kurt

[jeffisfast]

Thanks all. Heading to the hardware store for some threaded rod.

[jeffisfast]

Just as an update and a new question -

1. The threaded rod, washers and nuts worked great. I feel bad for anyone who tries to muscle in without it.
2. New question - the hardware that was included for the IRS upper control arms, the nut is super tight to get onto the bolt. Like I'm using all my strength with a breaker bar to get it on (the first few threads were easy but then it got real stiff). I've double checked I'm using the right bag of parts, but that doesn't mean the wrong parts aren't in the bag. I note that these are the deformed thread bolt, which might be code for hard to turn? Figured I'd ask a NOOB question to the experts here before I break my back needlessly.

Thanks all!

[MSumners]

The distorted lock nuts should likely not take that much force to seat, check the thread count on the bolt and corresponding nuts.

Addendum: not an expert

[jeffisfast]

Just as a follow up.... not sure if I had too much or too little beer, but even though I double checked, I used the wrong bolts. Thanks again!

[AC Bill]

Just as a follow up.... not sure if I had too much or too little beer, but even though I double checked, I used the wrong bolts. Thanks again!

:p:p I have encountered the resistance of stover nuts before, and was amazed at how much effort it took to tighten them up. So cross threading them onto the wrong bolt, must have been ridiculous..:eek:.

At a guess, I'd probably to say much beer...:p

[jeffisfast]

110117 Yes, I had to resort to cutting the nut.

[Kmcallahan]

I like how you have the chassis on the cart. That is a good idea to maneuver around .

[jeffisfast]

Hi Folks,

I'm taking a week off from work and spending some time on my build. I'm now working on the accelerator pedal and have two questions for those that have been through this:

1. My pedal came with the arms folded down so they are in line with each other. Looks like the connecting piece has been pressed into the pedal assembly. Do I need to get this out somehow to open up the arms? Any advice on how to press it out? Here's a photo of it:
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2. The throttle cable, where it passes through the firewall, the hole is actually slightly oversized for the cable's nut assembly. The entire cable passes through the firewall. What have I done wrong here? (Wrong hole? Wrong throttle cable? Do I need to add a large enough washer and nut?) Another photo:
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Thanks all!

[Papa]

Jeff,

That's the correct location for the throttle cable. If it's going through the hole, then you'll need a couple of washers to attach it the the foot box wall. Before you do, I'm not a fan of the kit-supplied cable and recommended buying a better one from Lokar. On the pedal, you just need to loosen the pivot and open it up like the picture in this post:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?24916-Papa-s-MKIV-Roadster-Build-9115-(The-car-is-now-in-Kleiner-s-capable-hands!)&p=289388&viewfull=1#post289388

Dave

[jeffisfast]

Thanks Papa.

An update and a new question:

1. I ordered Russ' accelerator pedal since I broke mine while trying to unfold it (the bushing was totally locked in there).

2. I also ordered the Lokar throttle cable and look forward to installing it tomorrow. Agree the stock one feels underwhelming.

3. I've moved on to installing the power steering compatible steering rack. Looks like I didn't receive the FF5 sleeves for it, but I'm hoping for some advice to press out the pre-installing sleeves and bushings that are too big for the FF5. See attached photo. I don't have a press and they didn't seem to budge when I hit with a hammer.

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As always, million thanks!

Jeff

[Papa]

Thanks Papa.

An update and a new question:

1. I ordered Russ' accelerator pedal since I broke mine while trying to unfold it (the bushing was totally locked in there).

2. I also ordered the Lokar throttle cable and look forward to installing it tomorrow. Agree the stock one feels underwhelming.

3. I've moved on to installing the power steering compatible steering rack. Looks like I didn't receive the FF5 sleeves for it, but I'm hoping for some advice to press out the pre-installing sleeves and bushings that are too big for the FF5. See attached photo. I don't have a press and they didn't seem to budge when I hit with a hammer.

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As always, million thanks!

Jeff

The installed bushings and isolators should just pull right out. The FFR bushings replace the ones in the rack or you can get the ones from Breeze that are offset. A lot of guys like them for better rack geometry, but I used the FFR ones and don't think the others are necessary. Did FFR ship you the rack or did you get it from another source? If you got it from someone else, you'll need to buy the correct bushings. If you got it from FFR, call them and ask for the bushings. Double check your inventory as they were not in the same package as the rack in my case.

Dave

[jeffisfast]

Thanks Papa. I just needed some special elbow grease to pop the existing bushings out of the FFR supplied power steering rack. All good now and I've got the rack installed in the car. The only hiccup I ran into was that I couldn't attach the Tie Rods to the underside of the bracket, they only wanted to go in from the top side -- looks like the bracket may be slightly tapered. See attached photos. So my question is, do they go in from above as I've done or did I do something wrong?

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[Papa]

Make sure you have the spindles on the correct side. If I recall, they go on opposite of the stamping for the roadster. In other words, the PS stamped spindle goes on the driver's side and vice versa.

Edit: Looked closer once I got home and could see your pictures on a larger screen and the spindles look correct, but you could also have the steering arms reversed or upside down. The tie rod ends s should mount from the bottom as shown in the manual. Hey, at least you didn't drive them in against the taper! That's a common mistake that is a lot harder to fix without damaging the tie rod ends.

[jeffisfast]

Thanks Papa. I hope FF5 has you on the payroll!

I'm not following what you mean about the spindles -- my problem is the steering rack tie rod ends don't want to fit from the underside into their brackets. I was wondering if they are internally tapered and I installed them on the opposite sides, but from the photos they seem correct?

New question for the group about the fuel filter location. The soft fuel line supplied doesn't seem to be long enough to get to the filter mounting location shown in the manual. Is the manual wrong, do I have the wrong soft line, or should I just put it someplace else?

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[Greg K]

I'm not following what you mean about the spindles -- my problem is the steering rack tie rod ends don't want to fit from the underside into their brackets. I was wondering if they are internally tapered and I installed them on the opposite sides, but from the photos they seem correct?


Tie rods attach from the bottom, looks like you need to swap the steering arms to achieve that. Pic from another build.
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[jeffisfast]

Got it, thanks. I mixed up the two steering arms but got that sorted.... Wish it were easier to take them off but live and learn.

Any thoughts on the fuel filter location also mentioned above in #23?

[Greg K]

You can locate it rearward and inside rail that roll bar down tube attaches to.

[jeffisfast]

I see the spot you're talking about, Greg, but here's another dumb question. The soft line kinks if I mount it there because of its length. Can I shorten this line?

[Greg K]

Can reverse the connectors and see if that works or use a Breeze assembly that is longer and allows a loop https://www.breezeautomotive.com/shop/fuel-line-assembly-efi-pump-to-filter-3-8-3-8-quick-connect/

[jeffisfast]

Hi Everyone.

Happy Thanksgiving.

Finally had some time off from work so I could come back and keep working on the F5! I've started running the wiring harness and the fuel lines. The wiring harness, so far, seems straight forward. The fuel lines, however, were a bit trickier and I'm now hoping for some advice.

1. I've never used a tube bender and tried using the "Imperial Tube Bender (https://www.amazon.com/Imperial-Tool-470FH-Triple-Degree/dp/B007J9FWSA/ref=sxts_sxwds-bia?keywords=imperial+tube+bender&pd_rd_i=B007J9FWSA&pd_rd_r=deac1f08-8a32-4256-9d6f-b919ebfdaf48&pd_rd_w=dbRQS&pd_rd_wg=gqcxl&pf_rd_p=1cb3f32a-ccfd-479b-8a13-b22f56c942c6&pf_rd_r=0Z9V0ZVDB2KP0197PTBE&psc=1&qid=1575063053)" and crimped the fuel line. No way it will flow freely now. So this means:

2. Can anyone recommend a better tube bender?

3. Can anyone recommend what replacement hard fuel line I should order?

4. Lastly, any good pictures of how you've routed your hard fuel lines? Looks a little messy/bendy getting down to the frame rail from the fuel filter location.

Thanks everyone!

[Papa]

Jeff,

I used this tubing bender with good results for my Nickel Copper brake lines:

https://www.amazon.com/Eastwood-Bender-Tubing-Forming-Pliers/dp/B07P21V91X/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=eastwood+tubing+bender&qid=1575063753&sr=8-5

I went with -6 braided fuel lines on my car.

Dave

[cv2065]

I used the same tube bender and pliers that Papa recommended. Just go easy, especially with the pliers. They can damage the line if you get too aggressive. NiCop tubing is soft, so the tube bender you have is similar and will work, like I said, just go easy with it. Get yourself a couple of scrap pieces and practice before going the real deal. I used all pre-flared lines from the local Advance Auto. Worked great, you just have to plan everything out a little more carefully, as you are dealing with pre-determined lengths. I ended the hard lines with compression fittings from Breeze and then flex lines to the filter, tank and fuel regulator. Not one leak from the start. Mark from Breeze is great and he can get you setup.

I'm not a master by any means, but feel free to browse my build thread for routing ideas.

[jeffisfast]

Thanks Dave. What are -6 braided fuel lines?

[Papa]

Thanks Dave. What are -6 braided fuel lines?

Jeff,

The braided lines are a flexible tubing/hose.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=84612&d=1524423643

The -6 is the size:

Standard Automotive Hose Size to -AN Equivalent Hose Size
1/4"= -4 AN
3/8"= -6 AN
1/2"= -8 AN
5/8"= -10 AN
3/4"= -12 AN
1"= -16 AN
1-1/4"= -20 AN
1-1/2"= -24 AN

[jeffisfast]

Hi Folks,

Happy Holidays. I hope you're all using your time off to work on your F5, like me... :)

While I wait for UPS to deliver parts and tools I'm catching up on assorted build items. One of them is lubricating all the suspension joints. I've got all taken care of except for the rear, rear upper control arms. I can't see any way to actually access the zerk while the arm is actually assembled. Am I missing something obvious or should I take the bolt out and just lube it and then re-insert and torque down?

Thanks everyone and looking forward to 2020 rides!

119577

[BadAsp427]

Well..... Jeff.... Those should be pointing down... I would say that you have installed them on the incorrect side of the vehicle...

119578

[jeffisfast]

That explains it. :mad: :eek:

[jeffisfast]

Hi All. I've got my suspension installed correctly, filled the diff with fluid, and even ran my fuel lines. All good stuff.

New question. I'm working on the hard brake lines and it seems that the male fittings on the hard lines don't fit the female fitting on the master cylinders. Am I just not finding the right adapters or am I just not pushing hard enough to get them to thread in?

[egchewy79]

Dunno, mine seemed to fit just fine. If you're buying additional brake lines from an auto store, make sure you don't get the British or bubble flair ones. These won't mate with the cylinders or connectors.

[Papa]

Hi All. I've got my suspension installed correctly, filled the diff with fluid, and even ran my fuel lines. All good stuff.

New question. I'm working on the hard brake lines and it seems that the male fittings on the hard lines don't fit the female fitting on the master cylinders. Am I just not finding the right adapters or am I just not pushing hard enough to get them to thread in?

Silly question: Did you use the adapter or are you trying the thread the line fitting directly into the MC?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=84541&d=1524420630

[Jryasko]

Jeff,

The braided lines are a flexible tubing/hose.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=84612&d=1524423643

The -6 is the size:

Standard Automotive Hose Size to -AN Equivalent Hose Size
1/4"= -4 AN
3/8"= -6 AN
1/2"= -8 AN
5/8"= -10 AN
3/4"= -12 AN
1"= -16 AN
1-1/4"= -20 AN
1-1/2"= -24 AN

Not to nitpick but just to clarify. You are correct in that 1/4" is a -4, 3/8" is a -6. The Dash size refers to the size of the hose/tube in 1/16 of an inch, that is where the dash size comes from. Also the AN designation is from the military for Army / Navy, and this is also the same as a JIC fitting. The JIC fittings have a 37 degree flare as opposed to a 45 degree flare on a SAE fitting. The brake fittings we use in automotive on these builds have a 45 degree inverted double flare. The AN or JIC fittings we use on these builds are for fuel lines only, not the brake systems. Sorry mechanic all my life and in later years taught a class on ID of the various fittings.

[jeffisfast]

Hi Papa,

Just to clarify - I'm trying to screw the threaded adapter that came on the hard brake lines directly into the MC and it doesn't want to go. Feels like the threads are a different pitch and I'm afraid to force it in in fear of stripping the MC. The previous reply says it should just screw in - is that your experience too?

Thanks

[Papa]

Hi Papa,

Just to clarify - I'm trying to screw the threaded adapter that came on the hard brake lines directly into the MC and it doesn't want to go. Feels like the threads are a different pitch and I'm afraid to force it in in fear of stripping the MC. The previous reply says it should just screw in - is that your experience too?

Thanks

Mine went in with no problems. Do you have another fitting you could try that's the same size? Does the fitting you are using do the same on both MCs?

[jeffisfast]

Interesting. Yes, I've tried all the fittings from all the brake lines, and also tried the T-fitting adapters for the brake lines, which I think are the same. Maybe I've got the wrong MCs. Will reach out to F5 parts to see what they think. Thanks again.

[edwardb]

Hi Papa,

Just to clarify - I'm trying to screw the threaded adapter that came on the hard brake lines directly into the MC and it doesn't want to go. Feels like the threads are a different pitch and I'm afraid to force it in in fear of stripping the MC. The previous reply says it should just screw in - is that your experience too?

Thanks

First rule of thumb -- don't force anything. If something won't thread in with finger pressure, or very light help from a wrench, pretty good chance something is wrong and you won't like the outcome. Possible exception of lock or distorted nuts, but even then it should be obvious when something is too hard. Sounds like you're trying to thread the tube nut on the end of the brake lines directly into the Wilwood MC's? Without using the adapter that Papa pictured and is shown in the build manual? Won't work. The Wilwood threads are 1/8 in. NPT. As I recall there's a sticker on the MC that says that. Standard 3/16 in. brake line tube nuts used in these kits are 3/8-24. The adapter is mandatory and should easily thread together. Recommend a touch of thread sealant on the NPT threads into the MC.

[jeffisfast]

Thanks Edward. Right, got it. Here's a photo of what I'm using and it just won't go in. The threaded adapter in my hand is removed from the hard brake line.

119974

[Papa]

Thanks Edward. Right, got it. Here's a photo of what I'm using and it just won't go in. The threaded adapter in my hand is removed from the hard brake line.

119974

Jeff,

Do you have a thread gauge tool?

https://www.amazon.com/Bolt-Thread-Checker-Inch-Metric/dp/B003FJW0GK/ref=sr_1_6?keywords=thread+gauge&qid=1578162444&sr=8-6

[jeffisfast]

It's been on my shopping list... now ordered! :)

[edwardb]

Interesting. Yes, I've tried all the fittings from all the brake lines, and also tried the T-fitting adapters for the brake lines, which I think are the same. Maybe I've got the wrong MCs. Will reach out to F5 parts to see what they think. Thanks again.


Thanks Edward. Right, got it. Here's a photo of what I'm using and it just won't go in. The threaded adapter in my hand is removed from the hard brake line.

You're on the right track. Nothing wrong with the MC's if the adapter goes in like that. I'm assuming the tube nut in the picture was removed from one of the provided brake lines? If so, should be 3/8-24 and should go into the MC adapter, the kit provided T-fittings, flex tube adapters, etc. From what I can see in the picture, that MC adapter appears to be an inverted flare, so should be the right one. Have you tried other tube nuts? Maybe that one is damaged. This should be all pretty straightforward. I know, easy for me to say..

[jeffisfast]

Hi Everyone,

Hope everyone is well during these crazy times. As I've seen in other posts, one of the only benefits has been more time at home to work on the Mk4!

I'm about to install the engine - my first time doing this - and am super excited.

Question for all of you about the driveshaft adapters. I ordered my car from you with the IRS kit and a 347 engine and transmission from Blueprint Engines. Below are photos of my transmission output and the two driveshaft adapters that I received. Doesn't look like they are compatible. The problem is that the transmission doesn't have a splined female connector to attach to, which the driveshaft appears to be looking for. What am I missing?

Thanks all!

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[jeffisfast]

So... I just tried pulling out the piece in the transmission and see it just slides out. In the crate I didn't have enough space to try.... Glad that was easy! False alarm!

[jeffisfast]

Hi Everyone. Happy to report that I'm making progress. Even thinking I'll be able to start the engine soon!

I'm in the midst of wiring of my Blueprint Engines 347 with EFI (Holley Sniper). Johnny from BP has been a huge help and I can't speak highly enough about his patience and expertise.

As a first timer doing this, figuring out the engine wiring was a bit overwhelming at first with all the harnesses. Want to summarize what I learned in case it helps anyone else.

- F5 Orange wire splits so half goes the Engine Pink wire and the other half goes to the Coil (+).
- F5 Purple wire and the Engine Yellow goes to Coil (-).
- Engine Red goes to Battery (+)
- Engine Black goes to Battery (-)
- Engine thick Blue goes to the Fuel Pump (+) (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?32593-EFI-Fuel-Pump-Wiring-Question&p=371899&viewfull=1#post371899)
- Engine Light Blue connects to F5 fan relay (cut the red jumper, patch it into that, ground the green fan switch wire)

(Note, the Holley Sniper is configurable and the above does reflect on some of the settings that Blueprint pre-programmed. No guarantee yours is the same, but this was the default setting mine arrived with.)


Thanks everyone!

[jeffisfast]

Just wanted to post a few graduation photos. This form has been invaluable. Happy motoring!

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[Papa]

Looks sharp! Congratulations on a clean build.

Dave

[GoDadGo]

Congratulations From The Dark Side!
.....Well Done Brother, Well Done!

[mgk172]

Congratulations. Love the colors!

Enjoy the drives.

[WIS89]

Made it so indeed!!

Very nicely done, and I also love the colors. She looks super clean and fast.

I do have one complaint, however. You can't have a graduation post with only three pics of your build! We need details man, details! HAHA

I would love to see more pics, showing off your hard work; engine bay, cockpit, etc. If you have time, please share some more details with us.

Congratulations on a beautiful build!

Regards,

Steve