a couple of questions re: brakes on the hotrod

[sread]

Hey Guys - putting together the hot rod and have a couple of questions - first is regarding the hose type that runs from the reservoir to the mc - there was a package with 2 different hoses (red and black) in it along with a tech update from FF. The tech update said to use the hose marked" trans cooler" as opposed to one marked for fuel injection which I guess had been used mistakenly in the past. My question arises from the fact that many of the build pics I have seen show people using the red hose which is marked Gates "adaptaflex, multi-purpose". Does it matter? are both hoses compatible with brake fluid?
Next question is regarding mast cyl bore size - mine has all 3 (clutch , front, and rear brakes,) sized at .75. I have read somewhere that it is beneficial to run a 5/8 mc for the rear brakes if running the stock Mustang brakes as I am. I have also seen that it is sometimes necessary to go to a 1 in for the clutch if running the hyd set up. Is there any consensus that that is a good practice? It would be a whole lot easier to swap those now rather than after the body is mounted.

[wallace18]

Use red hose. Use 1" or 1 1/8" for hydraulic clutch. 3/4" is Ok for rear brakes. Do not forget you have a adjustment bar for brake bias. Enjoy your build.

[sread]

Yeah - after reading the install info for the hyd throwout bearing, pretty sure I need to go with a larger master for the clutch, mainly due to not getting the full stroke needed because of where I have the pedal height set (I'm 6'4" with big feet and need the room). Problem is Wilwood only shows a 13/16 as the largest available in that series of master cyls. Any suggestions?

[OnlyAndy]

Reading this, had to go look at mine.... 33' hot rod with SBC, TKO600, quicktime bell and Mike Forte external slave. My Front cylinder is .75... Rear is .625 and Mike Sold me, and Told me to use .875 on the clutch.... All installed but not near go-kart yet. Now I am wondering if I have the front and rear reversed...?

[sread]

I think you have it right. From what I have read, it helps to increase the pressure to the rear brakes because of the near 50/50 weight distribution. You are probably good on the clutch too. Its just that mine has a GM hyd throw out bearing and they give pretty specific requirements for the fluid volume needed to get the required movement necessary to get good disengagement of the clutch. I did find one that will work now with a 1 in bore - just had to go to a slightly different configuration.

[AJT '33]

Reading this, had to go look at mine.... 33' hot rod with SBC, TKO600, quicktime bell and Mike Forte external slave. My Front cylinder is .75... Rear is .625 and Mike Sold me, and Told me to use .875 on the clutch.... All installed but not near go-kart yet. Now I am wondering if I have the front and rear reversed...?

0.75" front, 0.625 rear

[Higgi56]

so just to piggy back on this thread I have a few related follow up brake questions.

1) Manual says to cut off 5/8" from the threaded rod on the master cylinder. I did a test fit up before cutting and marked off about 1/4" that could be cut off to allow for adjustment while the brake pedal was in the vertical position. what is everyone's experience with how much to cut off?
2) both brake master cylinders are 0.75 does this affect adjustment of the balance bar? should I start in the ever(neutral)position?
3) only have one brake reservoir, but would suspect I should use two, one for front and one for the rear brakes. Any recommendations?

Thanks in advance.

[FF33rod]

I blindly followed the instructions and cut off the 5/8, wish I hadn't. I've read threads where others have felt the same. I think you're on the right track with the 1/4, or none at all if that works.
The bore of the MCs will definitely affect the position of the balance bar. There are detailed instructions with the pedal box that goes through how to set it up. (I have yet to do it myself)

[RBBJ 32 HOTROD]

Higgi56 as far as the reservoir I went speedway motors and got one of their dual reservoirs.113060

[Higgi56]

Higgi56 as far as the reservoir I went speedway motors and got one of their dual reservoirs.113060

Nice set up

[Higgi56]

I blindly followed the instructions and cut off the 5/8, wish I hadn't. I've read threads where others have felt the same. I think you're on the right track with the 1/4, or none at all if that works.
The bore of the MCs will definitely affect the position of the balance bar. There are detailed instructions with the pedal box that goes through how to set it up. (I have yet to do it myself)

Thanks. I think I'm gonna trim just enough so it doesn't run into the balance bar.

[AJT '33]

Higgi56 as far as the reservoir I went speedway motors and got one of their dual reservoirs.113060

I have the same as you. Just consider clearances when you have a clutch cable or hood.
113085

[HVACMAN]

I trimmed mine approximately 1/2 inch to get the pedal height I was looking for. I would definitely recommend dual reservoirs. 113084

[RBBJ 32 HOTROD]

No clutch cable but I am running a hood.

[TxMike64]

I'm not sure of the rules where you are, but some state DOTs require dual reservoirs for brakes (redundancy in case of failure). And it's a good idea anyways...

[Higgi56]

I trimmed mine approximately 1/2 inch to get the pedal height I was looking for. I would definitely recommend dual reservoirs. 113084

How much did you offset the balance bar? Rear vs front. do you also have 0.75 front and rear master cylinders?

[sethmark]

Couple things to add. First, the gen 1 guys have a different hood latch set up than the GEN two guys. Worrying about bringing the master cylinder reservoir up to far is kind of a thing of the past. Obviously there is such a thing as too far, but it doesn’t interfere with the hood the way it used to. Second, I did a whole bunch of research on brakes and decided that individual reservoirs, stainless steel lines, and fewer chances of screw ups made me feel better.

As for the balance bar, there’s really no point in trying to do too much with it until you can drive the car. There are a lot of variables that are out of your control just yet. Remember, these are race car parts. It’s not uncommon to have multiple master cylinder is at your discretion to help dial in.

[Higgi56]

Couple things to add. First, the gen 1 guys have a different hood latch set up than the GEN two guys. Worrying about bringing the master cylinder reservoir up to far is kind of a thing of the past. Obviously there is such a thing as too far, but it doesn’t interfere with the hood the way it used to. Second, I did a whole bunch of research on brakes and decided that individual reservoirs, stainless steel lines, and fewer chances of screw ups made me feel better.

As for the balance bar, there’s really no point in trying to do too much with it until you can drive the car. There are a lot of variables that are out of your control just yet. Remember, these are race car parts. It’s not uncommon to have multiple master cylinder is at your discretion to help dial in.



Thanks for the feedback and pics.

Couple of follow up questions
1 did you bolt the reservoir to the firewall or the frame?
2 what type of adapters are your running on the master cylinders?

[sethmark]

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/wil-220-13130


https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ear-961603erl

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ott-6444/overview/

[Higgi56]

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/wil-220-13130


https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ear-961603erl

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ott-6444/overview/

Awesome. Thanks.

I'm running an automatic so only need the dual. But I like the set up. It seems more solid than Rubber lines and hose clamps.

[sethmark]

Awesome. Thanks.

I'm running an automatic so only need the dual. But I like the set up. It seems more solid than Rubber lines and hose clamps.

It is more solid... necessary? Doubt it.

[Higgi56]

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/wil-220-13130


https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ear-961603erl

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ott-6444/overview/

Awesome. Thanks.

I'm running an automatic so only need the dual. But I like the set up. It seems more solid than Rubber lines and hose clamps.

[Higgi56]

It is more solid... necessary? Doubt it.


Any feedback on the location? Obviously its going on the other side of the firewall. I am drilling pilot holes from the backside first to get the location set in relation to the frame.113916113917

[JimLev]

If your going to be using a hood you should check to see where the hood pins will be going thru the firewall.

[sethmark]

If your going to be using a hood you should check to see where the hood pins will be going thru the firewall.

Gen 2 hood is different. Latches in the middle.

I think you might be a little high and distal.

[Higgi56]

Gen 2 hood is different. Latches in the middle.

I think you might be a little high and distal.

Not running a hood. 113919113920

[JimLev]

Gen 2 hood is different. Latches in the middle.



You Gen 2 guys got all the good stuff!

[sethmark]

Speaking of the good stuff, does the fiberglass transmission cover sit down on the transmission? It seems like it may be too low.

[JimLev]

Depends on the tranny your using.
I have a 4L65e which has at least 1" clearance on top and up to 2" on the sides.
The 4L80 is a bigger tranny so you may have some issues with that tranny and the cover.

[sethmark]

I’m running the tko manual. Taller and skinnier. Definitely tighter than it should be. I have alll the room in the world in the sides.

[FF33rod]

Probably also depends on relative fore and aft position which will be set by the motor. I've got the TKO as well but coupled to SBF and have a fair bit of room sides and top. With the LS you've probably pushed it rearward which will eat up vertical space.