Gauging interest in booth rental idea

[mrmustang]

So here is my idea for those that want to do all of their own bodywork and paint.

Do the bodywork at home, take your time, get it done at your own pace. When you are finished, instead of polluting the environment, potentially killing some brain cells of you, your loved ones, pets, neighbors, etc, come rent my paint booth (heat and humidity controlled) for a Saturday (8 hour day is what I am thinking, longer if need be, but 8 hours should be plenty of time). I'll supply the booth, clean, dry air, properly balanced paint guns (I use Sata or Devilbiss depending on the comfort level), masking materials, and the safety of a controlled environment in which to maximize your effort. For an additional charge (depends on the color and mix costs) the paint materials themselves. Figure somewhere between $800-$1,000 for a typical 8/9 hour day of booth time, which covers my electric, heat, gas, etc......What do you guys think?


Bill S.

[prophet]

Hey Bill... It's a great idea, the price is fair and I'd pay that. However, I wouldn't rent out your guns - I would make it a BYOG.

[mrmustang]

Hey Bill... It's a great idea, the price is fair and I'd pay that. However, I wouldn't rent out your guns - I would make it a BYOG.

These are my day to day shop guns, not my "personal" guns. Heck, I've got a bunch of Devilbiss guns for those that I feel uncomfortable handing over my SATA's to :D ......Can't mess those up even if you drop them,......Go ahead, ask how I know...........

Bill S.

[dallas_]

Bill, If I lived close I'd jump on that in a heartbeat!

And I'd vote, yes they can use your guns. Of course they could bring their own if they want.

I was going to build a temporary booth at home but after some research decided against it for the reasons you mention. Was able to find a booth at a community college here, but had approached a few local paint and body shops about booth rental. Couldn't find anyone who would do it.

Great idea!

John

[Xybram]

Bill, I will absolutely take you up on this. Thanks a bunch!

Chris

[Mike N]

Bill S that is an awesome idea. If you had a body / paint man that wanted to earn a few extra bucks a weekend bodywork and paint school kind of like the build school would be something a that I could see really taking off. Start off at once a quarter and go from there. The only issue I can see is people having unrealistic expectations on cost. Anyone who has done paint and body knows just how expensive it is and the booth and equipment doesn't come cheap either. I have to say that I think you have hit on something that the community has never had but sorely needs.

[Someday I Suppose]

I think it is a good idea for sure, and the price sounds more then fair to me. I think from your standpoint you might want to break prices down some as well, rent the booth only, this much, rent the gun, this much, need help mixing paint and some basic instruction, this much, need me to look over your shoulder all day long, this much, etc.

That would be my concern, someone coming in to rent the booth and it turning into an all day nightmare because they can't figure out which way to point the gun. :-)

Also, is it something your thinking about only for these cars, or as a general service? I would think there are lots of guys out there with all sorts of vehicles who would be interested in learning to put down their own paint.

-Scott

[mrmustang]

Bill, If I lived close I'd jump on that in a heartbeat!

And I'd vote, yes they can use your guns. Of course they could bring their own if they want.

I was going to build a temporary booth at home but after some research decided against it for the reasons you mention. Was able to find a booth at a community college here, but had approached a few local paint and body shops about booth rental. Couldn't find anyone who would do it.

Great idea!

John

John,

I've had local people want to rent my booth in the past so they could spray their own cars (usually Ford Escort, 20 year old dodge mini vans, etc), they could care less about their car, they just want to save money, and those are the ones I would never allow using my equipment. Now, a higher end client (Corvette, Rolls Royce, Cobra owner) has a bit more invested and is more likely to take better care of and respect my equipment (yes, I will be there to supervise, would not think twice about pulling the plug on someone who did otherwise and yes, they would lose their money for abusing my hospitality and equipment, which is my livelihood during the week). I've thought this through, believe it has a nitch, but we'll see.

Bill S.

[prophet]

These are my day to day shop guns, not my "personal" guns. Heck, I've got a bunch of Devilbiss guns for those that I feel uncomfortable handing over my SATA's to :D ......Can't mess those up even if you drop them,......Go ahead, ask how I know...........

Bill S.

Yup. Startingline and ********** guns are tanks. Definitely the 74 Chrysler Imperial wagon of paint guns.

Another thought to this - I would also use the 3M cup system on the rental guns - much easier to clean up. As for a way to get this moving, I'll PM you.

[Colonist]

I would think there are lots of guys out there with all sorts of vehicles who would be interested in learning to put down their own paint.

-Scott

I second Scott on this one -- give some thought to a Body School to complement the Build School. A three-day weekend once a month, and one of the students could haul in their body to be worked over and painted by a crew of six to eight students.

[mikeinatlanta]

I'd do it if I can rent you along with the booth.;)

[Tad]

I think this is a great idea. It would actually be worth it even with some travel cost for some of us within a days drive. I just did all the body work on a wrecked salvage title car (not a FFR) and paid someone else to spray it. I would have really loved to try it myself but I knew I did not have the "right" experience, facility, and environment to ensure a successful job. I thought about asking some local shops if they'd let me use their booth but just decided to just get one to spray it since I didn't want to screw it up at that point. The weekend "class" idea is something I would pay to attend as well. Hands on involvement with paint is something I want to learn - but preferably not "the hard way" and having to sand it all off and then pay someone to fix my poor job.

Tad

[TimC]

My painter rented his booth for a member to spray his car. He also told me that mine was the last one he was going to do for me. The next one he's going to make me lay the color down. So I guess that means I'll be renting his booth.

[Steven K]

So here is my idea for those that want to do all of their own bodywork and paint.

Do the bodywork at home, take your time, get it done at your own pace. When you are finished, instead of polluting the environment, potentially killing some brain cells of you, your loved ones, pets, neighbors, etc, come rent my paint booth (heat and humidity controlled) for a Saturday (8 hour day is what I am thinking, longer if need be, but 8 hours should be plenty of time). I'll supply the booth, clean, dry air, properly balanced paint guns (I use Sata or Devilbiss depending on the comfort level), masking materials, and the safety of a controlled environment in which to maximize your effort. For an additional charge (depends on the color and mix costs) the paint materials themselves. Figure somewhere between $800-$1,000 for a typical 8/9 hour day of booth time, which covers my electric, heat, gas, etc......What do you guys think?


Bill S.

I hadn't thought about it much, but an 8/9 hour day is enough to paint and clear a car....with stripes?

[Cobradavid]

I hadn't thought about it much, but an 8/9 hour day is enough to paint and clear a car....with stripes?

My painter spent a whole day just masking off the stripes. He painted the stripes (white - but it was 3 different stages), then masked them, and then painted the main body color (maroon)

[mrmustang]

I hadn't thought about it much, but an 8/9 hour day is enough to paint and clear a car....with stripes?

Depends how anal you want to be with them. Laying out the stripe using the old school center of mass out method is easiest, but if you want to follow the laid out structure in the old FAQ, then 8 hours is cutting it close.

As for me teaching a class, sorry, I'm just the hired supervision at this point as I'm burned out from my normal 72-80 hour work week. Saturdays I do estimates,drop offs,pick ups, and paperwork only......Maybe might work on my own cars, but rarely have the energy for that either.........

Bill S.

[first time builder]

Bill if your going for 800 to 1000 including paint and masking material, your going to lose money. I have a friend that has two booths at a very large shop and he made a deal with me. I flatbead the car (mostly corvette's but FFR OK ) on Friday, finish final sand and taping. Saturday the body goes in one booth, doors, hood, etc goes in second booth. His painter (working Over time) shoots the color. If stripes are needed I lay it out. Then he clear coats it. We leave in booth at
90 degrees over night. I dont like to "bake" glass bodies. I go back Sunday morning and untape, and the let car sit with heat set to 70 untll Monday Morning when we flatbed it back to my shop. He includes All tape materials, color,reducers,hardeners and clear. I pay him 2500 $. I have painted cars myself but when you have a guy that paints 5 days a week ,8 hours a day he has to be better than a 1 every 6 month guy. I color sand the cars myself at my shop. The last car I supplied the paint and cost me almost 600 $. The last car we did at his shop( 1959 Corvette Resto Mod) was just featured in a magazine.

Kenny

[mrmustang]

Bill if your going for 800 to 1000 including paint and masking material, your going to lose money. I have a friend that has two booths at a very large shop and he made a deal with me. I flatbead the car (mostly corvette's but FFR OK ) on Friday, finish final sand and taping. Saturday the body goes in one booth, doors, hood, etc goes in second booth. His painter (working Over time) shoots the color. If stripes are needed I lay it out. Then he clear coats it. We leave in booth at
90 degrees over night. I dont like to "bake" glass bodies. I go back Sunday morning and untape, and the let car sit with heat set to 70 untll Monday Morning when we flatbed it back to my shop. He includes All tape materials, color,reducers,hardeners and clear. I pay him 2500 $. I have painted cars myself but when you have a guy that paints 5 days a week ,8 hours a day he has to be better than a 1 every 6 month guy. I color sand the cars myself at my shop. The last car I supplied the paint and cost me almost 600 $. The last car we did at his shop( 1959 Corvette Resto Mod) was just featured in a magazine.

Kenny

No Kenny, $800-$1,000 is just for the booth (and heat/air/use of shop guns) for the day. Everything else is extra....I do FFR's (Vettes as well) in a 8 hour day and yes, I let them air dry. All paint work can be done in that 8 hour rental if the renter is smart about it. I then suggest picking the car up Monday morning (Sunday strictly by appointment only).


Bill S.


Bill S.

[bil1024]

Definetly s grest idea, I hated doing mine the the garage

[Olli]

I think that it is a great idea Bill.

Are you also going to let people use a fresh air supplied mask? I hope that you don't lend out your painter's mask...or does he own his own. Big time hygiene issue.

Olli

[mrmustang]

I think that it is a great idea Bill.

Are you also going to let people use a fresh air supplied mask? I hope that you don't lend out your painter's mask...or does he own his own. Big time hygiene issue.

Olli

It is up to the painter using the booth. I am plumbed for a fresh air system (in fact just upgraded the system for better fresh air filtration), or they can use a regular painters respirator. I never let others cross use masks, as you are correct, it is a hygiene issue (the joke in the shop being "you don't know where he has been"). If someone renting does not have his (her) own fresh air mask, they can bring along a 3M dual cartridge respirator (I like the 07193's) at a minimum. Health and safety standards must still be met or they do not set foot in the booth, and they lose their money (which is paid up front) due to their own incompetence. I'll have these items spelled out in some type of FAQ before I actually rent the booth out to someone.

Bill S.

[mrmustang]

finish final sand and taping.
Kenny


Forgot to mention, there is no, I REPEAT NO sanding in the booth itself. It is assumed that final sanding (not wipe down) is done before the vehicle in question ever reaches my shop.

Bill S.

[Olli]

Bill,

I would say that you have the respirator situation nailed.

Olli

[LuckyWinner]

anyone out in california want to pick up on this idea????

[mrmustang]

anyone out in california want to pick up on this idea????

Your state regulations as they related to body shop owners prohibits such a venture.


Bill S.

[AJ Roadster NJ]

Can't believe it took me so long to see this, I must be blind.

I'LL BE YOUR BETA CUSTOMER!!! :^)

We've talked, so you know I'm planning a solid color, no stripes, no metallic, just basecoat clearcoat. I'm in baby. We'll talk.

[kpeterson]

Will your insurance cover non-employees in work areas? I'd be nervous about problems from a renter getting paint (even catalyzed over spray) in their eyes or something like that. There may also be the waste/emissions issue. We only let employees with current EPA certification spray in our booth.

If the details work out it sounds like a real win-win.


Kerry P

[mrmustang]

Will your insurance cover non-employees in work areas? I'd be nervous about problems from a renter getting paint (even catalyzed over spray) in their eyes or something like that. There may also be the waste/emissions issue. We only let employees with current EPA certification spray in our booth.

If the details work out it sounds like a real win-win.


Kerry P

Kerry,

I've got that all covered........

Thanks,

Bill S.

[Scott L]

Hi Bill -

This is the program I have set up with my painter, only he is actually painting the car (He says he comes with the booth :)) 1/2 day featherfill, 1/2 day epoxy, 1 full day for BC/CC. 2 days total, $500 per half day. I was happy to find a painter willing to do this.

[Steven K]

This sounds like a great idea but PA is a bit of a hike for me. I wonder how the body shop business is doing these days and if local shops would entertain offers like this just to help them earn some extra cash.

[LuckyWinner]

what about Nevada....any laws that would effect this idea???

[mrmustang]

what about Nevada....any laws that would effect this idea???

I don't know any owners in Nevada, sorry....


Bill S.

[t d]

Good idea Bill.

[mrmustang]

Follow up thread with a copy of the basic rental agreement can be found at the following url:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?441-Booth-Rental-agreement-follow-up&p=3600#post3600


Bill S.

[Someday I Suppose]

AJ. let me know when your going, if you let me tag along for the day I'll let you use my trailer :-)

-Scott

[dallas_]

Follow up thread with a copy of the basic rental agreement can be found at the following url:

Bill S.

Bill, looks good.
Is 8 hours enough time for a rookie to spray the base, tape stripes and spray the clear?

[real2me]

Bill,
I hope you follow throught with this because I am definitely interested in this idea. I am now just starting my bodywork so it might be a while (long while in my case).
Great idea. Perfect for this audience.
Bill

[mrmustang]

Bill, looks good.
Is 8 hours enough time for a rookie to spray the base, tape stripes and spray the clear?

The very first Cobra I did from start to finish took me less than 8 hours and I had never personally laid out stripes or shot a car base/clear before, that was with basic stripes starting at the center line and taping out. If you have everything prepped before hand, yes, it easily can be done for two colors. If you are going to do a third or fourth color, or a tri stage color, then it will indeed take more time. My advice is to do the priming at home, finish sand to 600-800 grit (personal preference), then bring the car down to the shop. From set up, to masking (I have a body buck or you can bring your own) to painting you'll be fine.


Bill S.

[mcwho]

I really like this idea, even trekking my body from here in Florida I would save a lot on a paint job. I did a paint cost survey about a year ago, and the avg price guys are into for body and paint is about $6000 to $7000. Thats was the avg from guys that responded.

[first time builder]

Bill, when I said final sanding and prep, I do any minor touch up sanding OUTSIDE the booth and blow off and tape outside booth. The only thing done in booth is prep sol wipe and tack cloth. Those filters are to expensive to sand in a booth.
I also agree that 8 hours is plenty of time, although it usually takes 4 hours to tape off stripes. 3 coats stripe color, flash time, tape stripes, 3 or 4 coats color, flash , untape stripes 4 or 5 coats clear.

Kenny

[mrmustang]

Bill, when I said final sanding and prep, I do any minor touch up sanding OUTSIDE the booth and blow off and tape outside booth. The only thing done in booth is prep sol wipe and tack cloth. Those filters are to expensive to sand in a booth.
I also agree that 8 hours is plenty of time, although it usually takes 4 hours to tape off stripes. 3 coats stripe color, flash time, tape stripes, 3 or 4 coats color, flash , untape stripes 4 or 5 coats clear.

Kenny

Kenny,

Car has to be ready for paint as I am not offering my shop, just my booth......This is how it goes, prepped car gets put in front of the booth, any masking can be done at that time, once masked, into the booth it goes for it's sealer, base, if stripes to be sprayed, then of course time to mask, then spray, then unmask and clear. Nothing else will be happening at the shop but paint, masking, unmasking. Heck, I'm not likely to even turn the back shop lights on for the day as they will not be needed (penny saved is a penny earned)............

Bill S.

[rick8928]

Bill,
Is this typically done with body off chassis or body mounted? In terms of you gauging interest, am building a Mk 4 in Baltimore, and will need a paint booth in about a year (I hope!).
Rick

[mrmustang]

Bill,
Is this typically done with body off chassis or body mounted? In terms of you gauging interest, am building a Mk 4 in Baltimore, and will need a paint booth in about a year (I hope!).
Rick

Usually a body on a buck is suggested, although, I have done it with the body on the chassis as well.


Bill S.

[herbet99]

I know this thread is a bit old.. but do you still provide paint booth rental? I have a 66 mercury I'd love to paint myself.

Thanks.

[mrmustang]

I know this thread is a bit old.. but do you still provide paint booth rental? I have a 66 mercury I'd love to paint myself.

Thanks.

Sorry, no, lost our lease and shut the shop down in November 2012.

Bill S.

[ncs0816]

could you do 200 a day.

[mrmustang]

could you do 200 a day.

Even if I still had the shop, $200 would not have covered the costs associated with you time in my 80K booth, sorry