Aj's 818S in Houston

[Ajzride]

I've recently purchased a partially completed 818S which is in a roller state. The donor was a 2006 WRX Turbo with 74K. Currently the car has motor and transmission installed, brake and clutch plumbed, all suspension hung, and most aluminum riveted in place. I was really looking for a GTM or Superlight Coupe, but came across the 818 and decided it was a better project for me to take on as a first kit car than the more complicated supercar builds.

I'll be picking up the car this weekend, and I have spent the last 2 weeks reading every build thread on the forum for an 818S or 818C (I skipped the R threads since I have no desire to track the car). Full disclosure I started on the last page of build threads and I'm working my way forwards. I just finished page 3 which included a few long threads (InsuranceGuy and Hindsight) and I'm starting on page 2 today. Several long threads on that page as well, I hope to finish them before I pickup the car this weekend. There are a lot of threads that don't go anywhere, this won't be one of them. My last project build thread was over 85 pages long. This one won't be that long, but I'm not in a hurry for this project. 2 years would be okay with the amount of customization I intend to do.

While this is my first kit car, this is not my first project car. I've completely restored a 65 mustang which I joke that the only stock part left is the roof panel. It has a completely custom interior, a fiberglass nose, and a custom paint job. I did all the body work myself, and I have basically repainted in my garage the whole car due to issues with the paint job I had sprayed by a professional shop (Not sure why some computers show the pictures upside down). I got pretty good at fiberglass work as part of this project.

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The goal of the car for me is going to be a really nice street car. It will have a full interior with HVAC, Audio, sound deadener, etc. Although I will be keeping the car a roadster, I will be putting the coupe side windows in and having a custom top made that will work with the side windows and be water tight. I may even fabricate a custom fiberglass hardtop that is truly removable. The FFR offering is not removable, it is convertible, and it's not a quick process. Additionally I don't like the look of the FFR hardtop.

Here are some bullet items on my plans, it probably doesn't include everything.

- Power Brakes. I drive a car now with Manual brakes, but I've seen plenty of threads complaining about how much pedal pressure is required for braking. I'd rather deal with this before I get the body on.

- ABS. I hope to do this, but if the PO has already thrown away the ABS module and removed the wheel speed sensors, I might not go through the trouble of adding them back and buying the ABS module.

- HVAC. Not optional, Houston is hot and sunny and I want cold air blowing on me.

- Custom Hood Scoop

- Custom Quarter Scoops

- Custom tail lights

- Custom rear bumper vents

- Custom front bumper

- panel stiffening additions

- FFR Carbon Splitter

- FFR Carbon Diffuser

- FFR Carbon Rocker Extensions

- Street Seats

- WRX Center Console

- Electric Parking Brake Caliper

- InfinityBox wiring system (Already have this, got a great deal on it from a GT-R builder who didn't want it) with the A/C Control module for Vintage Air.

- Cruise Control

- Trunk Package

Here are some things I've got questions about.

- AWIC. I don't have radical plans for power, but would like to hit 275 - 300 hp for my ideal power to weight ratio. Also it will only be street use, so no extended hard driving. If I install this I will have to find a place to put the exchanger. With HVAC I will already have two exchangers up front and AWIC would make for a third, unless I put it in the enlarged quarter panel vents.

- Oil cooler. Do I need this on a street only car?

- What data can I get out of the stock ECU? I'd like to use dash command for gauges instead of the stock cluster. Google has come up empty on this research. I assume I can get RPM, Speed, Coolant Temp, IAT, Boost, Oil Pressure, Oil Temperature. I know I will need to come up with standalone indication for blinkers, E-brake, Brights, and fuel level.

- Hydramat. Will this be sufficient for a street driven car, or do I need to contemplate custom baffling. My biggest concern in Houston is front to back, not side to side. There are lots of pretty steep ramps here for the interstate interchanges.

Thanks for helping me with my questions, and here are some pretty bad sketches of my vision.

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[aquillen]

Looking forward to your build. Gonna be a good one. From the sweet Mustang pix you clearly do excellent work.

[Hobby Racer]

- Oil cooler. Do I need this on a street only car?



If you kept the stock oil cooler / warmer you should be fine.



- Hydramat. Will this be sufficient for a street driven car, or do I need to contemplate custom baffling. My biggest concern in Houston is front to back, not side to side. There are lots of pretty steep ramps here for the interstate interchanges.



Hydramat is more than enough for a street car. I use it in my tracked 818R and have no issues with fuel starve.

You should read some of the 818R build threads as well. We do some neat stuff that is not just for track cars.

[wirenut]

Excited to see another 818 build in H-town! Let me know if you need a hand or want to see my build. I need to update my build thread, but I'm about 3/4 of the way through.

Also, I have a never used Hydromat I could give you at half price. I switched to the Boyd tank.

[Ajzride]

Excited to see another 818 build in H-town! Let me know if you need a hand or want to see my build. I need to update my build thread, but I'm about 3/4 of the way through.

Also, I have a never used Hydromat I could give you at half price. I switched to the Boyd tank.

I would love to catch up with you in April. Which part of Houston are you in? I'm on 99 between Katy and Sugar Land. On the hydramat, you have a deal. When we meet up we can make the exchange.



You should read some of the 818R build threads as well. We do some neat stuff that is not just for track cars.

Thanks for the feedback. I would love to read the R threads as well, but to be honest just trying to read all of the S/C in 2 weeks has actually turned into a bit of a chore, adding another two dozen would make it a pure drag. I'll probably hit some of them when the search results start pointing me that direction.

As an aside... has anyone figured out how to search just the 818 subforum? I can only seem to get it to search the entire forum, so I keep getting lots of Cobra results and very few 818 when I search.

Thanks everyone.

[Hobby Racer]

As an aside... has anyone figured out how to search just the 818 subforum? I can only seem to get it to search the entire forum, so I keep getting lots of Cobra results and very few 818 when I search.

Thanks everyone.

Use the Advanced Search in the upper right corner, under the search box.

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[Ajzride]

Use the Advanced Search in the upper right corner, under the search box.

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The trick I was missing is that it was defaulting to “Search Multiple Content Types” and you have to toggle back to “search Single Content Types”.

I had not even noticed those tabs up there, but your search engine looked different from mine so I started poking around.

[STiPWRD]

What data can I get out of the stock ECU? I'd like to use dash command for gauges instead of the stock cluster. Google has come up empty on this research. I assume I can get RPM, Speed, Coolant Temp, IAT, Boost, Oil Pressure, Oil Temperature. I know I will need to come up with standalone indication for blinkers, E-brake, Brights, and fuel level.
You can get all of those through the ECU except oil temp and oil pressure. There is an oil pressure switch but it only reads if there is pressure above 2 psi, like an on/off switch. You'd have to get aftermarket gauges to data log the oil.


As an aside... has anyone figured out how to search just the 818 subforum? I can only seem to get it to search the entire forum, so I keep getting lots of Cobra results and very few 818 when I search.
You can also search the forum using google and adding this to your search: site:thefactoryfiveforum.com. I usually add 818 to whatever topic I search for and it does a good job.

[Mitch Wright]

Welcome and enjoy your build. I am running the stock oil cooler/warmer on my track car, it works fine with my power level (285whp). On a triple digit day rarely will I see over 230* oil temp.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

You can get all of those through the ECU except oil temp and oil pressure. There is an oil pressure switch but it only reads if there is pressure above 2 psi, like an on/off switch. You'd have to get aftermarket gauges to data log the oil.
You can also search the forum using google and adding this to your search: site:thefactoryfiveforum.com. I usually add 818 to whatever topic I search for and it does a good job.

When I did the TGV delete, I put the oil temp and pressure input into the ECU on the available analog inputs.
Below is the display on my phone using the BTSSM app.
Bob

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[STiPWRD]

When I did the TGV delete, I put the oil temp and pressure input into the ECU on the available analog inputs.
Below is the display on my phone using the BTSSM app.
Bob

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Bob, does the app allow you to manipulate the 0-5V TGV signal into something usable, like re-scaling for the correct oil pressure range? I was planning on doing this with ROM raider but didn't know it could be done on apps. I thought Dash command just reads what the ECU spits out. I'm not familiar with BTSSM, is it analogous to the rom raider data logger?

[AZPete]

Based on your Mustang, this 818 is going to be GOOD! I like your goal of a really nice street car since that's been my goal also, as you'll see when you find my build thread - actually a "built" thread. I've added about as many production car features as possible, except power brakes, and it drives like a production car. No, wait, it's quicker, more nimble and attracts more interest than most super cars. I don't miss power brakes but check out Turbomacncheese since he's pioneering PB.

[Ajzride]

When I did the TGV delete, I put the oil temp and pressure input into the ECU on the available analog inputs.
Below is the display on my phone using the BTSSM app.
Bob



Good idea Bob, If I make my own custom dash in DashCommander I can easily put in a static scale so that the display looks correct.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Bob, does the app allow you to manipulate the 0-5V TGV signal into something usable, like re-scaling for the correct oil pressure range? I was planning on doing this with ROM raider but didn't know it could be done on apps. I thought Dash command just reads what the ECU spits out. I'm not familiar with BTSSM, is it analogous to the rom raider data logger?

The app allows scaling (multiplier) and offset. It also allow a trigger point that turns the gauge red and beeps the phone. You can do much more. watch this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-K_f4A6yeFg

[Ajzride]

Thanks for all the input everyone.

I'm at a boring conference today and tomorrow, so I managed to get through all of page 2 except Wayne's VCP. It included some marathon builds including Andrew and Tamra's 37 page thread. I shouldn't have read Aero STI's thread, way too many cool ideas, a lot of which I was already thinking of some iteration of.

Maybe tomorrow I can finish Wayne's thread and page 1.

[Ajzride]

No one warned me Frank's thread would be 44 pages long. It's the last one, doubt I will finish it today though. I have to get the mustang taped up to do a little repair painting so it is ready to go back outside before I start working on the 818 in the garage.

[Ajzride]

Looking for feedback on my order of operations to make sure I'm not about to make a mistake.

So the car I'm picking up has the motor, transmission, cooling, suspension, and aluminum panels installed. My preference would have been to hang the body panels on an empty frame and do panel gapping before I added anything to the frame. Doing the body work on fiberglass can create a ton of dust that gets up inside everything and is a pain in the neck to clean up, but it's too late to take my preferred course of action. I also have some space limitations. I only have a 10x20 garage bay to keep the car in and do any messy work. I have another garage bay for doing work on small pieces at a bench suck as cutting/welding/drilling brackets etc. However SWMBO parks on that side and the kids keep their bikes there, so it has to stay clean.

Therefore my current plan is to leave the car at my dads and bring home some pieces to work on. I am planning to bring all the body panels so that I can do the major modifications (side vent reshaping/enlarging, custom hood vent, custom nose, custom bumper) in the 10 x 20 bay. Then once I am finished making the major changes, I will bring the rest of the car in, remove the engine (have a friend do a leak-down and go through with a borescope) and transaxle (have OBX installed), tape up the cooling and suspension best I can while I work on setting panel gaps and getting them flush. Once the panels are gapped, flush, and reinforced I will finish the blocking on them outside while I start working on finishing the roller. Part of the panel gaps will be addressing getting the coupe door glass to work with the S windshield frame. Perhaps AZPete or someone else who has done an S to C conversion can give me some insight onto what I'm getting myself into there.

So, here is my thinking:

- Body Panel Mods

- Fit side panels

- Fit doors

- Fit bumper

- Fit trunk

- Fit engine cover/back hatch

- Fit fenders

- Fit headlights

- Fit Nose

- Address door glass / window frame

- Address top. I'm thinking right now just a custom fabric top but before I move on from body work i want investigate either a full removable hardtop, or converting to a targa style top. I have several ideas here that would entail lots of fiberglass mess.

- Remove panels for later blocking/painting

- Double check all PO installed components

- Install seats and check ergonomics. Adjust firewall/steering wheel/ pedal box etc.

- Address ABS install (go / no-go and then any work associated)

- Stage HVAC

- Wiring

- Reinstall Engine/Transmission

- Go kart

- Address AWIC (go / no-go and then any work associated)

- Address shifter (determine if stock is okay or if upgrade needed). I'm not a fan of the look of the FFR upgrade or the K-Tuned. I want something much more stock. So either Factory upgrade (a la Andrew and Tamra) or MR2 if I can't live with the stock one. My current stick is a 1969 Ford toploader, not short, precise, or quick. So the stock option may seem like a huge upgrade to me.

- Dash/Console/Doorpanels

- Remove all interior for bedliner + Sound deadener

- Reinstall interior

- Block + Painting

- Final Assembly

Thanks for the feedback.

[Ajzride]

Picture Heavy posts of the weekend. 1800+ Miles roundtrip to pick up the car. Will post some specific questions tonight either here or maybe in the sub forums.

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[Ajzride]

When working on a project, I try to get 1-3 hours in on a single M-R night, and then get a good 6 hours in on Friday. Any time on Saturday or Sunday is a bonus. Last week I was traveling for work M-R, so I only got Friday in the garage, and I used that to prep my mustang's deck lid for paint (I dropped the bumper on it and put a huge gouge in it). This Friday will probably be spent cutting/buffing the mustang. However next week should start full time on the 818.

My first sub-project will be the custom nose. I'm not a huge fan of the Camry lights, and I know there are issues aligning them due to the incorrect angle the nose puts them at, so I ordered something a little more modern looking, 2015 Honda Accord lights. They are almost the exact same size, have a nice DRL LED, and were very economically priced (versus say Audi S6 lights). They set in pretty close already, but I'm going to rework the nose completely to get the angle correct (more of an upward tilt from middle to edge). The Accord lights are straighter, and will eliminate some of the smiley face that the Camry lights produced.

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[aquillen]

Looks like you may have the bearing race in the smaller hole in the back of the trans/transfer case. Usually pull those out so they can't get loose in there on their own.

[Ajzride]

Looks like you may have the bearing race in the smaller hole in the back of the trans/transfer case. Usually pull those out so they can't get loose in there on their own.

Thanks for the tip. I’ll make a note to check this when I go back through the POs work on the trans.

[Kurk818]

Looking forward to see what you do with the headlights!

[Ajzride]

As is typically with my mustang project, it's taking longer to finish than I had planned. The entire project has been cursed (not on the level of Frank's VW build, but pretty bad), so I'm not surprised I don't have have it back together yet. However thanks to a tool malfunction and a determination to get started on the 818, I started on my first project today, modifying the nose.

I'm going to start with getting the headlights installed, and then move on to customizing the lower section. I've done a lot of fiberglass modification before, and even made some parts from scratch, but when I started looking at how to modify the nose for these new headlights, set at a different angle, I really started to scratch my head. There are a lot of compound curves I'm going to be dealing with here. One thought I have is that I could bond the nose, hood, and fenders together into a clamshell like the GTM, then close up the hole for the headlights, and cut a new one. I'm not ruling that out, but I thought I would try something less drastic first. I'm basically going to try and close up the close for the headlights on the nose, cut a new hole for the new lights, and then modify the hood and fenders to fit as necessary.

I'm working on some videos that I will post along with these pictures that will probably explain things a little better, but since I got interrupted today and didn't get to the point I wanted to, the video might not make much sense. I hope to get caught up tomorrow or Sunday and then post the video.

The first thing I decided I needed to do was cut out the relief that exist for the current light, so that I can glass up the nose, and then cut a new relief that is shaped like the new light:

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Next I made a form from thin cardboard (think poster board) that I covered with packing tape, and laid on a layer of glass.

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I wasn't totally thrilled with out the first layer came out. The weight of the resin was more than I had anticipated, and it made the cardboard sag. I used thin cardboard for flexibility, but it came at a cost of strength. Also the fiberglass cloth that I bought was not as flexible as what I usually use, and it bubbled in quite a few places, and wouldn't hug the edges. I'll definitely buying some more cloth with a finer weave for my first layers, and then build up with the courser cloth or traditional mat.

It was at this point that I got interrupted by a work emergency that took away the rest of my day. Over the weekend I'll get 2-3 more layers of glass on, and also use glass to made a form of the headlight lens. Once I get the headlight lens form, I'll lay it against the nose and outline the angle of the headlight, and then cut my new relief.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

One thought I have is that I could bond the nose, hood, and fenders together into a clamshell like the GTM, then close up the hole for the headlights, and cut a new one.


I suggest you do the clamshell idea you mentioned. If you stiffen up the nose to fender joint. It will make it very difficult to get good hood to fender lines.
Just my 2 cents.
Bob

[Ajzride]

Bob

I'm going to have to completely re-contour the front of the fender and the hood anyways, clamshell or not. And It will be much easier to paint the car if I can keep the panels separate, so I'm going to try that first. Wouldn't be surprised if I wind up with a clamshell though.

[Ajzride]

This video is from picking the car up, so it's al little late. Will be along in a few with a video on the first part of the nose.


https://youtu.be/YEg0rW9koRI

[Ajzride]

Turns out I did way more work than I needed. I wound up cutting the nose pretty low to house the light at the angle I wanted. This is loosely mocked up, it will need to be recessed further back. My next project is getting it mounted solidly in the nose with bucket or brackets, then I can finish out how the light flows into the nose.

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[Ajzride]

Video on the headlights might make more sense than the pictures and ramblings I type up


https://youtu.be/T8jmzfgGyXI

[Ajzride]

I knew this was going to be a slow build, I think I guesstimated 2 years, but it is going even slower than I expected. I had about 5 weeks in a row where I made no progress because I was building my wife an outdoor kitchen for her anniversary, and then I've lost a couple of whole days to trying to finish the mustang. I've put 3 brand new door latches on the drivers door and it still will not latch properly. I'm stumped and I'm stepping away from it for a bit and will move on to finishing the window trim.

In the meantime I've been thinking a lot about the 818 build and I think I've made some decisions that will change the course and order of my build.

First is the big decision around the lights... I've bought into Bob's theory that it is going to be almost impossible to install custom lights in the old style nose where the fenders, nose, and hood are all 4 separate pieces and the lights install in between them. Looking at Andrew's LYTW8 and how he modified only one panel per headlight, couple with Art's attempt at a clamshell has emboldened me to try a clamshell as well. This will allow me to basically only have one panel per headlight as well.

If I'm going to make a clamshell, then I basically need to get all of the body panels fit and in place before I glue the clamshell together, so I'm thinking I need to go for a more traditional body panel fitting process, and then start my fiberglass modifications. I was hoping to do most of it off-body to help with the mess, but alas it was not meant to be.

I've also decided that if I am going to be doing a lot of panel fitting and removing, then I want to be able to move the car in and out of the bay to work on it because the bay is pretty tight. That means my first task is getting it to go-kart stage (wiring, clutch, shifter), so I'm starting to focus on what that is going to take.

I had been intending to use the InfinityBox system I have for wiring, but the further I get into details, I'm thinking it is going to be overkill for what I have. I can't get a Gen-IV VintageAir that will fit in the 818, which means I can't use the touchscreen climate controls that InfinityBox offers. I'm also not going to have a ton of fans, lights, lifts, etc that would benefit having the touchscreen for either. So I'm really thinking about just using the stock harness and saving the InfinityBox for my next build, which will probably be much bigger (SLC, GT-R, GTM).

I've managed to haul all of the parts except the actual chassis from my Dad's house to mine, and so my next trip there I will haul it back on a flatbed and be ready to start moving forwards. I think for now I'm going to focus on the wiring harness since that can be mostly worked on inside with some AC while it 100+ outside. Hopefully I'll be in go-kart stage by the fall and can do panel fitting and body mods during the cooler months. This all of course requires me to start making real progress rather than fiddling around with the last 5% on my mustang.

I've think I've decided to upgrade the gas tank so I can get more room for the seat. I'm only 6'1", but I like to stretch out a fair bit. If I was tracking the car a closer upright seating position would be preferable, but for a weekend/cruiser being back and reclined is much more comfortable.

Also having second thoughts on my color scheme (go figure).

I also removed all the stuff stacked up around my chassis on the last load, so I could see my chassis number: F5R1002136ES

Does that mean I'm chassis 136?

[Brd.Prey]

Weird my new R model is F5R1000565, So the 2 is the S model I wonder what the ES is then? Suppose it is chassis 136.

[InfiniteReality]

I can't remember what gen Vintage system that came with the SLC, but I'm content with manual controls. Although maybe the reason for touchscreen is due to lack of dash space for the AC controls? If you can/want to go manual controls, I recommend upgrading the knobs to the aluminum ones. Looks better and bigger.

[Ajzride]

The only desire for the touchscreen was just to say I did it.

[lsfourwheeler]

The Vintage Air Mini II I bought has electric controls that should work with the Infinity Box controls I would think. I haven't installed mine yet, but I am following instructions written by AZPete but with the newer-gen Mini. https://www.vintageair.com/builder-series/?subcat1=Gen%20II%20Mini

[Ajzride]

The mini-2 is a Gen-III, so it has electric controls, but not ECU controls. It will not work with the Infinity system :(

[Ajzride]

Two big milestones today:

1) MiniSplit installed and function. It's 98 outside, 70 inside.

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2) All pieces of the car including the roller are home:

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[AZPete]

AJ, for my AC I just wired it to a 12 volt source and used the Vintage Air controls. My ECU doesn't know there is AC. For the 12V source, I put 2 small fuse blocks below the dash with one powered by a direct wire from the battery and the other powered by a connection through the ignition switch. In addition to the AC power, these have been handy for other stuff like audio, back-up camera, microwave oven, etc. OTOH, if you want to use the donor AC controls, then you have to find another way.

Edit: Oops, I went back to see your thread about Infinity and a touch screen. It looks like you are already thinking of separate power and controls. Stay cool.

[Ajzride]

I decided to save the infinity for another project and ordered the Coach-One harness. I’ll use the Vintage air controls for AC. Harness is supposed to arrive today, but I’ve got a few other things to test out first. Been working on shifter this week, will post update on that later this weekend.

[Ajzride]

I'm not a fan of having the fuse panel / brain of my electrical system under the dash behind the console. I have it there on my Mustang and it's a pain in the rear. Looking around the cabin, there is not a lot of real estate to place it. I don't think the kick panel is big enough, and since I will have AC I can use under the passenger's side dash. I don't have my rear upper firewall with me (it's at the storage unit), but I don't think I would want it up high anyways, so I was thinking of on the lower rear firewall. Does anyone know of anything this will conflict with as I start finishing out the car?

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Thanks for any feedback / insight.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

110228 Thanks for any feedback / insight.

I moved my gas to the front of the car because I need leg room in the car. Most people have there seat tight against the firewall. Did you test your seat before you decided on that location?

Here is my location. 110229

[Ajzride]

Bob

I have ordered seats, but not test fit yet. However I'm not overly concerned about the passenger seat. My wife under 5 foot, and she will be the passenger 99% of the time. That is why I picked passenger instead of drivers.

Looking at where your's is located, doesn't that get covered by the upper inner firewall? Did you make a removable cover so you could access that to change fuses? I'm also wondering if I will have speakers land there in the future.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Bob

I have ordered seats, but not test fit yet. However I'm not overly concerned about the passenger seat. My wife under 5 foot, and she will be the passenger 99% of the time. That is why I picked passenger instead of drivers.

Looking at where your's is located, doesn't that get covered by the upper inner firewall? Did you make a removable cover so you could access that to change fuses? I'm also wondering if I will have speakers land there in the future.


Your buddy's are going to want to go for a ride. You can mount a sign that says "Small Females ONLY"

My engine firewall actually ended up the same surface as the cover to my ECU compartment.
I would have to pull at least one seats to get into the ECU box. It's been 4 years and I haven't had a need to get into that box. No fuses in that box. Fusebox is under the dash.
Bob

[Ajzride]

My ECU will probably be in the same place as yours, but I'm looking for where to put my fusebox that is not behind the console, and not under the dash where the AC will be.Based on how I plan to recline my seats, I think the spot is in now will be in the clear, the tops will hit before the bottoms. I'll know for sure as soon as my seats show up, until then I won't cut anything to length.

[Ajzride]

My first order of business now that I have the car home was to determine if I am happy with the stock shifter, or if I need to look into an upgrade. I have one of the early kits that uses the stock piece to attach the cables to, and a bracket that got me no where near close.

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The side to side cable was okay, but the front to back cable was too low, and way too far to the drivers side. No where near enough flex to reach the pin.

I spent about an hour on the forum, and couldn't find a single picture (I'm sure it exists, but not easy to find) of someone who installed the stock shifter with the stock cables/attachments. I decided that was a good indication that I needed an upgraded shifter, but since I was going to probably by something new anyway, why not hack up what I got to see if I can make it work.

I welded up the holes for bolting to the transmission so that I could drill new ones that would move the bracket closer to the end of the transmission. this was necessary to clear the sensor that was behind the bracket when I started to bend it towards the transmission.

GRAPHIC PICTURE WARNING: My welding skills are pretty crude so this doesn't look pretty.

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Once I had verified that my new location would clear the sensor, then I rolled the attachment for the cable into the shifter, so that it was more in line with the attachment.

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This allowed for the cable to finally attach to the arm, so for the first time I could actually shift gears. The side to side motion can be adjusted by going up or down the arm to get more or less throw, but the front to back movement has no real adjustment for the throw. It's really short, and also very very stiff. I might could help the stiffness a little by dropping the cable a little bit, and then angling it up so that it is more parallel to the linkage, but I'm thinking it will only help so much. My biggest concern is that going from 2-3 or 4-5, I will wind up going 2-1 or 4-3 because the shifter is so stiff that when you try to come out of a gear you blow right through neutral. I'm probably going to start working on a MR2 shifter soon since I don't like the look of the K-Tuned shifters.

[Ajzride]

Now that I had determined that I don't like the shifter, I was ready to pull the transaxle and take it to have the LSD installed. Normally this would be pretty straightforward, except that when I went to pull the wheels off so that I could pull the axles out, I realized the PO (previous owner) had not given me the key to the locking lug nuts. After trying a few I had around the house to looked close, I had to get creative.

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A little wonky but it got it done:

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[Ajzride]

I also started on the chassis wiring harness:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?32777-Coach-1-Wiring-Harness&p=373596&viewfull=1#post373596

[Ajzride]

Not any progress this week, but lots of stuff has arrived, and I invested a full day at the pick-apart-today. And boy was it perfect weather for the junkyard, 100 degrees, 80% humidity, and not a cloud in the sky.

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They had a nice 2010 Imprezza that I got the dash, AC compressor, and AC Condenser

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Picked up an Oven off of craigslist so I can start powder coating:

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eBay special, SW20 shifter:

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And my seats, I absolutely love these things:

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[Hobby Racer]

And boy was it perfect weather for the junkyard, 100 degrees, 80% humidity, and not a cloud in the sky.

Man, I think I would just die!


And my seats, I absolutely love these things:

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Like those seat, where did you get them?

[Ajzride]

I forgot give the specs on the seats. They are Braun Elite-X. I got them from Relentless Garage because they were the only ones who had white stiching in stock. I initially found them on CarID.

[Mitch Wright]

We have had customers cars with wheel locks and no key, I have been able to drive (hammer) a socket over the lug nut to get them off.

[Ajzride]

We have has customers cars with wheel locks and no key, I have been able to drive (hammer) a socket over the lug nut to get them off.

That is certainly an option, but I decided to delay that route and see if the PO had it, which he did and it's already shown up at my house.

[Ajzride]

Yesterday was mostly about ergonomics. With seats in hand I was able to test my seating position, and instantly knew I needed more room. So I pulled out the console, so that I could pull out the firewall, so that I could pull out the gas tank. Before I pulled the firewall, I marked it's location and then moved it back 3" to test how a Boyd's tank would work for me. This was a huge improvement and very livable, however going all the way back would be preferable. That is when i decided to start looking into what Bob_n_Cincy did for a front tank. A cardboard mockup showed I could easily fit a 10-12 gallon tank up front, I just couldn't figure out how to get it in without cutting the frame (I couldn't find Bob's thread, turns out he didn't actually make the first post, so searching for thread's started by him didn't turn it up). But he did send a PM to the link I saw that he had cut the bottom of his frame to install the tank from the bottom. I'm not really keen on cutting my frame, so I kept thinking as I tinkered with pulling the motor out about a solution.

That's when I thought about the GTM, it has two tanks and an equalizer tube. I could very easily slide 2 five gallon tanks through he openings in the frame, and then use a short piece of filler hose connect them together. I think it's a brilliant idea, but unless you can weld aluminum yourself, probably on the expensive side. By time I bought two five gallon tanks, sender units, 2" rolled necks (one for each tank), fuel pump etc, and then paid someone to weld it, I was going to be at the price of the boyd tank designed for the car, which goes is the safest location. In the end I ordered the boyd's tank. I may try to take out my column and collapse it to get me a little more room in the cockpit.

I also pulled the motor out while I was thinking so that I could install the AC Compressor, inspect the motor, and powder coat some of the parts.

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I also worked on mocking up the dash. It looks like I can keep all of the factory AC ducting, which will be really nice. I think I am going to have to trim the back corner of the glove box door to clear the frame. Might have to trim some more after I install the AC Unit.

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[DSR-3]

I have the Boyd tank and Sparco seats that look similar in size/shape to yours. For me the limit is the top of the seats when using a reasonable angle (for me). There is still more track adj. to go back but it's too upright (for me). Driver space is my biggest complaint with the 818 design, and it's hard to imagine how bad the first gen tank would be, but pretty sure I would not fit.

[Ajzride]

Between being down with Bronchitis (Steroid!!! I've got insomnia, so I'm posting at 3AM) last weekend and tearing half of the interior of the mustang apart chasing a wiring gremlin (broken ground wire under dash from over-crimping), I've made sadly little progress on the 818. I did get a long day in on Friday and a half day on Saturday, so I have some pics to show for my effort.

First is progress on the motor. I had pulled it to check it out (Bore scope visuals check out nice, turbo is in great shape) and also to powder coat all of the stuff that was painted red. My wife loves copper, so the car will either be copper, or more than likely black or grey with copper accents. Either one would not look great with red engine components (or calipers, I'll get to that soon enough). Some of the intake piping and the alternator were red and I powder coated them black so they would not stand out. I was going to powder coat the valve covers black as well since they are mostly hidden when installed, but decided it would be a good idea to powder coat them copper so that I could have some practice with the copper before I attempted the intake manifold. The copper is a candy, that goes over a chrome base.

I must say I was really impressed with the Eastwood chrome powder, it is actually really shiny:

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The copper is applied by hot-flocking the chrome. Basically spraying it on while the part is still hot from curing the chrome. The hock flocking is a little trickier than the base coat, I think because the electrical charge isn't as strong going through one coat of powder, and so the copper doesn't suck to the part nearly as well as the first coat does. You have to work a little bit to get a good even coat. It's not perfect, but for valve covers that are pretty much hidden, I was really happy for my first attempt at a candy coat powder:

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Next up was the manifold... but much to my dismay, it was about 3" too long to fit inside the oven. At least I check the fit before I started, but then like any good redneck I decided to proceed anyway.

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To cook the manifold I went totally bush league, I turned the bottom burner on (bake) to 450 and let the back bottom half heat up and cure, then I turned the top burner on (broil) and let the upper back half cure, then I flipped the manifold and repeated. The chrome actually came out perfect, and I was really stoked to get the copper on. The copper was looking really good at the halfway mark when I pulled it out and turned it around to cook the other half, but when I turned it to broil, I think I had the manifold on a higher rack slot than I did the first half, and the middle section closer to the broiler heat source got really hot (520F), and it yellowed. I guess the candy coats are way more heat sensitive than the base coats:

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At this point I had a few options. One is I could leave it. I'm not really a fan of the gold, but the two tone does look pretty cool. Couldn't sell my self on that though. Two was to blast/grind it off and start over. Seemed like the best idea, but I couldn't see why I shouldn't try to salvage it before I blew it away. Three was to just paint it with some copper VHT... No, that stuff looks terrible. Four was to heat it back up and re-flock it and be more careful curing. I opted for four with the option for two if that didn't work.

The center section that was candied over gold instead of chrome is definitely darker than the outer edge, but it's not terrible, and I'm betting in the engine bay with shadows on it, you won't even be able to tell the difference. If you can then I'll be pulling the manifold to re-powder coat it.

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I went ahead and re-installed the alternator (powder coated black, disassembled), AC Condesor (right off the donor), valve covers, fuel rails (also powder coated copper, they were red anodized), and then set the intake in place just for some mock up pictures. Next I have to install the new belts (AC is slip fit, yay!!), and figure out the mess of piping, hoses, and wires before I can permanently install the manifold and get it back in the car.

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[Ajzride]

The new Boyd tank arrived, it looks just like everyone else I'm assuming:

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I was amazed and horrified at the amount of packing p-nuts that came in the box with it. Literally enough to fill up my entire trash can:

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It was empty when I started :(

Before I installed the tank, I wanted to take care of sound/heat insulation. The PO had installed some open cell foam with a shiny skin on it, but I've never had much luck with open cell foam. I opted to rip it out and replace it with some closed cell foam. I covered my mustang with the stuff, and even though it was 102 today in the blazing sun, I felt just fine inside the car, and even turned the AC off of max at one point.

I like using this Noico because it has a diamond pattern on it that disappears as you roll it on. If you can still see the diamonds, you need to keep rolling:

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It's not the most ascetically appearing installation because I couldn't remove the panels and cover them in big pieces, but it will all get covered up, so as long as it's on good I should be fine.

I used two bolts from the bottom and two rivers-nuts on the frame to hold the tank in place:

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Now I can get on with fabricating seat mounts. Probably going to be a few weeks as we are headed to the beach next weekend. I plan to take AZPete's idea to the next level, for super easy to install seats. :)

[Ajzride]

I went ahead and ordered up the Griffin radiator with side tanks, and also slightly shorter than stock. This should give me plenty of room for my inverted scoop on my hood. For mounts, I decided to copy the idea of the factory mounts. This meant adding studs to the radiator. I used some bond-on threaded studs I already had lying around from MC, and epoxied them on. Since the tanks are not eh side, I'm going to have to move the mounting points inward just a little. On the top I can just add a new riv-nut, but on the bottom I had to do a little more work. I didn't want to cut and re-weld the stock mounts since all of that is powder coated, so I just fabbed up some new brackets that I will riv-nut on.

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[flynntuna]

A lot of those mailbox places like mailbox express and postal annex will take those packing peanuts. At least the one near me does. Beats filling the landfill with them.

[Ajzride]

That’s a great idea.

[Ajzride]

I got the rear bracket fabricated for the seats. I need to add a little more 1" square tube in the bottom to make a proper "sandwich" for the seat brace to sit in. I'm going to make something very similar on the front, but I'll have a place to bolt the bar running between the seat tracks to the brace on the frame. This will keep the seats from sliding out of the sandwich. And yes my welding is still ugly. These will get smoothed out and powder coated when I'm done. As always I start with CAD (cardboard aided design).

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[aquillen]

That copper looks great, even with the gold tint. I also saw how nice the chrome from Eastwood looked before I put the translucent blue over it. They say it has to be clearcoated if left chrome. I've not tried that yet but probably will because I have some chrome look I want to do. Copper contrasted to black here and there is a great look.

[AZPete]

nice idea for the seat mount. And, the copper looks good, too.

[Ajzride]

Two pictures isn't a whole lot to show for 10 hours in the garage, but when you aren't experience in metal working and don't have maybe all the right tools, it can be tedious.

Fabbed up the brackets for both seats, and went through a few trial and error iterations. In the end I wound up welding the cross brackets to the sliders instead of bolting them on. I just couldn't find a good way to avoid all the complications that bolts were causing. If I put them to the outside they were hitting the X-Brace of the frame, if I put them to the inside it kept me from moving the sliders where i really needed them. In the end they are together, and the seat goes in and out in under 2 minutes. Set it all the way to the front, up against the triangle brace, slide it back until it snaps in place, reach under and hand-thread a single bolt to hold it all in place.

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[Ajzride]

Looking for some direction from the forum. I've never worked on an EJ before, and I didn't get to take this one apart or start putting it back together. PO had the motor mostly together when I picked it up, but still some things not hooked up, and I'm not sure where everything goes. I've made a video to highlight what gaps i have I. If anyone could take a few minutes to watch and let me know if anything is hooked up wrong, I would really appreciate it.


https://youtu.be/KPa4zLmn9Ko

Main questions I have:


What does the PCV hook up to?
What does the small side of the BOV hook up to?
This looks like a factory setup with no AOS or catch-can. Will this be sufficient for a car that sees under 3K miles per year?




Thanks guys.

[lsfourwheeler]

So a couple comments (I had to do all this insane hose routing as well since my donor was a mess):

The throttle body connections are for coolant, not PCV. It's a throttle body warming feature for cold climates. They connect to the pipe that is used for the heater loop.

Looks like your PCV is in the correct spot. I think I just capped the second crankcase vent (this is apparently common) but the correct routing is in the service manual for that.

Several of the other ports you mention are vacuum ports. They are for things like the vacuum brake booster, fuel purge solenoid, boost controller, etc. The factory service manual and forums have a lot of info on these. I documented some of this stuff as I went on my build website. Obviously on things like the brake booster that you might not be using you can cap.

Small side of the BOV is for vacuum (that's how it "knows" when to open/close). It goes into one of the ones near the throttle body I believe.

[STiPWRD]

I think you have everything correct for the most part.

5:01 barb under the manifold goes to PCV barb
5:06 barb on top left of the manifold goes to the brake booster (I capped this one)
5:14 tiny barb under manifold goes to the small barb on the BOV
6:01 big barb on turbo inlet tube goes to the BOV (bypass valve) recirculation hose. I capped this since I'm using an aftermarket BOV.
6:30 BOV hose goes to the barb in at 5:14

You probably have a newer motor since some of your hoses are different than mine (02). I only have a single hose coming off the valve covers. I ended up putting in oil catch cans and replacing many of those rubber hoses with new ones, so my setup is a little different.

This may also help identify hoses:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2614458

[Ajzride]

After having to work the last several weekends, and a delay from ordering the wrong gaskets, I finally have the motor assembled and ready to put in the car. Thanks to everyone for the input on the vacuum hose routing.

Thankfully I saw a post somewhere around here the last few weeks that reminded me I needed to do Wayne's Cooling Mod, that would have been a pain to accomplish with the motor reassembled and put back in the car. I have an aftermarket turbo inlet pipe of unknown origins, but it makes for a really really tight fit with the barb on the cooling exit. Not sure if anyone else had issues with other pipes. I looked for something alternate, but those pipes are stupid expensive, so i made it work. I had to cut the barb down from 4 steps to 2.


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On a side note... I managed to jack up my TMIC and my degas tank has a broken nipple. If anyone has either and wants to unload them cheaply, please let me know.

[grabera7]

Some other pictures I’ve looked at have a 90 degree fitting and that would clear.

[STiPWRD]

Some other pictures I’ve looked at have a 90 degree fitting and that would clear.

^ That's what I used:
1/8" NPT X 1/4" HOSE BARB BRASS 90 DEGREE ELBOW
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-8-NPT-X-1-4-HOSE-BARB-BRASS-90-DEGREE-ELBOW/123758131169?hash=item1cd08f37e1:g:Oi0AAOSwQTVV-aWr
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[Ajzride]

Thanks guys. If I have to tear into it for some reason I’ll order a 90. Local ACE had a very limited supply.

[Ajzride]

I ordered the wrong size Power Grips, so I couldn't proceed with putting the coolant hoses on and then putting the motor in the car. So instead I got started on trying to separate the ECU wiring from the chassis wiring. For some reason I had though it would be a simple task. Wires run from ECU to the coils, fuel injector, cam sensors, etc... all in the engine bay right? Boy was I mistaken. The ECU is spidered into everything. With a 2006 having drive-by-wire, the cruise, accelerator, throttle body, all run through the ECU. Even the rear defroster and lights run through the ECU. Additionall there are quite a few relays that are triggered by the ECU.

As a refresher I am using a Coach One chassis harness, and only using the ECU from the donor. Although 1 day into trying to separate the harness, I'm 100% sure it would have been easier to just use the donor harness completely.

I first started out trying to work from the ECU and chase wires back to the source so I could decide what to keep and cull, but that was an impossible task, so instead I started identifying connectors that I knew I wouldn't need, and cutting them out all the way back to the fuse box. Getting the airbags out was easy because all of those connections and wires were yellow. Next I tackled the lights, starting with the relays for hi and lo beam, and then finishing up from the light switch. I followed that up with the integrated body control module, immobilizer, and keyless entry harness. I also culled out all of the HVAC and radio wires. Almost 10 hours and I'm probably about 80% done with dieting the main harness. The primary thing I have left to do is figure out the wiring of the fuse box so I can cut it out and set the wires up to connect to my Coach One fues box.

Once I get it all culled, I'll lay out in the car and see what needs to be shortened/lengthened, and then when I start cutting I can try to clean it up and group it into trunks that are more managable.

Nothing pic-worthy today, just a rats next of wiring, which many people have posted pics of.

[CerealSavage]

Really excited to see how that dash turns out. I've been fascinated with some of the other guys usage of the bug-hawkeye dash.

[Ajzride]

Took a break from wiring to put the motor back in. Nothing really significant to it. I had to resend the clutch line because the PO had it sitting right where the AC Compressor is now. So today I put the motor in, changed both clutch cylinders, and put on my new unequal length headers.

The headers were "slip joint" style, which is apparently pretty common on Subarus. I didn't like the idea, because I don't see how they wouldn't leak, so I welded them up. My welds are still ugly, and when I went to tack the first one in place, I had too much juice on the MIG, so I blew right through. Luckily I had to trim the slip fit, and had some extra tube I could use to weld a cover over the hole I created. Once they were welded up, everything went well.


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Thought someone might be able to use or just get a chuckle out of my redneck tool for bleeding the clutch by yourself:

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[sgarrett]

Hey, if you added a couple more of those levers for brakes and gas you could stand on the back of the car like a Roman chariot while you are driving!

[Ajzride]

Hey, if you added a couple more of those levers for brakes and gas you could stand on the back of the car like a Roman chariot while you are driving!

I could rig up a foot shifter like a motorcycle.

[Hobby Racer]

Thought someone might be able to use or just get a chuckle out of my redneck tool for bleeding the clutch by yourself:
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Ok . . . I'm seriously going to use that . . . not kidding either :D

[Ajzride]

Started working on putting the ECU harness in the car and routing/trimming it. At this point I'm basically cutting almost every wire (except shielded signal wires) so that I can pull them clean from the rats nest, trim them to length, and router them in trunks. Before I cut any wire, I label it with a three digit number where the first number is a section (engine bay =1 , fuel system = 2, cockpit = 3 etc) and then a sequential number. I'm using these handy little wiring labels from 3M:


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After cutting the wires, I trim them to length and put them back together using the wonderful little self-soldering connectors:

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I pull each connector into a group, and then group several connectors that will be routed together into a loom covered trunk. This one here is the passengers side engine bay which includes the fuel injectors, spark plugs, mass air flow sensor, both O2 sensors (I probably only need one, but doesn't hurt to have the harness there in case I need the other down the road) and a few other things.

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I have to finish the center of the engine which best I can tell is only going to be the neutral switch and the waste gate. Then I'll take the drivers side engine harness before moving on to the wires going into the cockpit. So far I'm only running the signal wires, All of the power will be fed out of my Coach harness, so I will have a separate power trunks that makes their way around the car.

[aquillen]

To complete the joyful work, listen to Emerson Lake Palmer's "Brain Salad Surgery" album while working... :)

[sgarrett]

I bought a ton of those self-soldering connectors too. Maybe I got a bad batch, but I definitely recommend that you cut open some of the ones you've done to make sure you are really getting a good solder connection. Since they aren't a crimp you are relying 100% on getting complete solder flow around the wires. I found that the solder flow on mine just wasn't good enough for my liking. It passed current, but my gut just told me it wasn't going to last. I reverted to good old solder and shrink tube.

[Ajzride]

I twist my wires together before inserting, rotate them while heating to make sure the solder flows out, and give them a good tug after they cool to check them. I discovered these when I rewired the Mustang, has good luck there.

[Ajzride]

Here are better pictures of how I use the self-soldering connectors, especially on the really small ones The bigger ones seem to have a lot more solder and work better just sliding them together. It's not as quick as just sliding them together, but much stronger. And still quicker (and less chance of burning your fingers) than soldering them the old school way.

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[Ajzride]

I'm 95% complete with the engine bay wiring, but the last 5% takes 25% of the time. I 'm hoping the geniuses here can shed some light on a few things for me. Some of these questions might be self evident to the Subaru tuning experienced, but I've never connected to one with a Cobb, because I've never had one and my current one ECU isn't powered up yet.


The Coolant Sensor has 3 wires, 2 of them go to the ECU and 1 goes to the instrument cluster. Since I'm eliminating the cluster, I can just delete that wire correct?
Will I be able to access the cruise enabled and cruise set bits over OBD-II (eliminating cluster)?
ECU connector 135 pin 15 is hooked into the light circuit, what does it actually do?
Would I be able to access via the ECU the digital bits for TGV position and Power Steering Pressure (I could repurpose them for blinker and bright status)
The PO remove all of the secondary air pump system (good), but appears to have tossed the barometric pressure sensor (bad). Does that connect to ECU134 Pin 27 (Red-Green wire)?

[Bob_n_Cincy]

I'm 95% complete with the engine bay wiring, but the last 5% takes 25% of the time. I 'm hoping the geniuses here can shed some light on a few things for me. Some of these questions might be self evident to the Subaru tuning experienced, but I've never connected to one with a Cobb, because I've never had one and my current one ECU isn't powered up yet.



The Coolant Sensor has 3 wires, 2 of them go to the ECU and 1 goes to the instrument cluster. Since I'm eliminating the cluster, I can just delete that wire correct? Yes, just make sure you insulate that wire. It has voltage on it.

Will I be able to access the cruise enabled and cruise set bits over OBD-II (eliminating cluster)? Those signal do not go through the cluster. I use open source tuning and there is no need for those signals.

ECU connector 135 pin 15 is hooked into the light circuit, what does it actually do? There are input to the cluster for back lightning, turn signals, high beams.


Would I be able to access via the ECU the digital bits for TGV position and Power Steering Pressure (I could repurpose them for blinker and bright status) I did a TGV delete. I use one sensor input for oil pressure and the other for oil temperature. I disable the TGV function in the ECU. My dash display read that data the displays oil temp and pressure.

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The PO remove all of the secondary air pump system (good), but appears to have tossed the barometric pressure sensor (bad). Does that connect to ECU134 Pin 27 (Red-Green wire)? You can just delete all EVAP functions in the ECU. Unless you are trying to be emissions compliment.

[Ajzride]

Bob

Thanks for chiming in, I knew you would have good insight on the ECU. With regards to questions 2 and 3, I don't think you understood my questions.

I'm looking to completely eliminate the factory gauge cluster, which means I have to find a way to replicate all of that functionality using a tablet and software such as BTSSM. I know I can get fuel level, coolant temp, RPM, speed etc from the ECU and put them on the tablet using the app, but I'm wondering about some of the other more random stuff. For example there are wires from the ECU that run to the gauge cluster to turn on a light if the cruise control is enabled, and if it is active (my car will see a lot of interstate time, cruise is important to me). Do you know if those would be available to BTSSM from the ECU so that I can eliminate those wires and lights and just show them in the app? If they are not, then I'll have to mount some small lights somewhere for that functionality and keep the existing wires. Ditto on blinkers and brights, I know they are not in the ECU, but there are some discrete inputs to the ECU i'm not using (such as power steering pressure switch and TGV Open/Closed switches). If those discrete signals such as power steering pressure are available to the app via ECU, then I can repurpose them for blinkers on then app screen.

If your are not sure if those are available, then I'll just have to leave the wires in place for now and wait until I'm powered up and can connect myself and experiment. But if you already know, it would allow me to diet the harness further.


You can just delete all EVAP functions in the ECU. Unless you are trying to be emissions compliment.

I don't need to be emissions compliant, but everything I read on the air pump delete said you have to keep the barometric pressure sensor and mount it somewhere, or the MAF calculations in the ECU will fail. Since I'm at sea level can I just hard code the atmospheric pressure using my COBB and eliminate the sensor? Looks for sure the PO threw it away.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Bob

Thanks for chiming in, I knew you would have good insight on the ECU. With regards to questions 2 and 3, I don't think you understood my questions.

I'm looking to completely eliminate the factory gauge cluster, which means I have to find a way to replicate all of that functionality using a tablet and software such as BTSSM. I know I can get fuel level, coolant temp, RPM, speed etc from the ECU and put them on the tablet using the app, but I'm wondering about some of the other more random stuff. For example there are wires from the ECU that run to the gauge cluster to turn on a light if the cruise control is enabled, and if it is active (my car will see a lot of interstate time, cruise is important to me). Do you know if those would be available to BTSSM from the ECU so that I can eliminate those wires and lights and just show them in the app? If they are not, then I'll have to mount some small lights somewhere for that functionality and keep the existing wires. Ditto on blinkers and brights, I know they are not in the ECU, but there are some discrete inputs to the ECU i'm not using (such as power steering pressure switch and TGV Open/Closed switches). If those discrete signals such as power steering pressure are available to the app via ECU, then I can repurpose them for blinkers on then app screen.

If your are not sure if those are available, then I'll just have to leave the wires in place for now and wait until I'm powered up and can connect myself and experiment. But if you already know, it would allow me to diet the harness further.



I don't need to be emissions compliant, but everything I read on the air pump delete said you have to keep the barometric pressure sensor and mount it somewhere, or the MAF calculations in the ECU will fail. Since I'm at sea level can I just hard code the atmospheric pressure using my COBB and eliminate the sensor? Looks for sure the PO threw it away.

None of my engines had air pumps. So I don't know the answer to that.
I have only used BTSSM with variable data. I have not seen anything in BTSSM that supports discrete input or displays that info.
Bob

[Ajzride]

None of my engines had air pumps. So I don't know the answer to that.
I have only used BTSSM with variable data. I have not seen anything in BTSSM that supports discrete input or displays that info.
Bob

Thanks Bob, I'll have to wait until I'm powered up and do testing.

And just so no one else gets confused, on the 06+ with drive by wire the cruise control is handled by the ECU, so the lever on the column and all of the lights are driven by the ECU.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Thanks Bob, I'll have to wait until I'm powered up and do testing.

And just so no one else gets confused, on the 06+ with drive by wire the cruise control is handled by the ECU, so the lever on the column and all of the lights are driven by the ECU.

My donor was an 04 FXT which is also a DBW and ECU cruise control. Here are my schematics.

https://1drv.ms/f/s!AjxmxU-yAwK9hXL_Hxt5j4vJxVv0

[Ajzride]

I want to make sure I don’t have my orientations confused. The “front” O2 sensor is the one I want to keep and control from, correct?

[Bob_n_Cincy]

I want to make sure I don’t have my orientations confused. The “front” O2 sensor is the one I want to keep and control from, correct?

Yes, front o2 is used for closed loop fuel trim.
The rear O2 is used to make sure your cat is working. If you remove rear o2, then you will have to disable some fault codes.
Bob

[Ajzride]

I plan to eliminate or repurpose the wires listed in the pic attached. Someone please let me know if I will regret that down the road. I'll be using the relays from the Coach-One system for fuel pump and radiator fans.

116182

[Ajzride]

Mostly finished up wiring the ECU. Every wire on the ECU is routed where it needs to go except the HVAC tie ins. I made a removable harness that runs from the ECU to the gauge cluster. I really want to eliminate the cluster and use a tablet, but I'm not sure I'll be able to because of the immobilizer. I'm not willing to swap to an aftermarket ECU just to run a tablet dash, and I'm not willing to leave the dash hooked up and hidden somewhere. With the ECU finally wired up, I retuned to working on the coach harness.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?32777-Coach-1-Wiring-Harness&p=385224&viewfull=1#post385224

[Ajzride]

Thinking about the whole ECU things gave me insomnia, so I stayed up all night doing tons of research. I decided to replace the ECU with a 2004 Forrester XT Turbo MT unit. This is supposed to control identically to the 2006 ECU, except no immobilizer. I will have to move a few wires around, I believe Bob already went through this, so I'll use his wiring diagrams. I could have bought a AT ECU for $225 cheaper than the MT one, but I could't find any confirmation if the cruise control would still work if I refreshed an AT ECU with an MT flash. I decided it was worth the extra money to buy the MT ECU.

I also realized that the fuel rails and fuel system setup by the PO were returnless, so I either have to replumb the fuel system with new railes and a regulator, or wire up the factory fuel pump control module. I decided to wire up the module, I'll work on that this morning along with wiring changes required by the 2004 ECU, and then move on to the keyless entry/ignition system I bought.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

These are the original subaru schematics I started with.
Bob


https://1drv.ms/b/s!AgduxxAs3q-xgwNp9CVDYuNh88vx?e=l2O5ze


Here is a link to my completed ECU panel. To late to tell you I started with a AT ECU and flashed it to a MT.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?12534-MRG-MotorSports-818S-Build&p=146406&viewfull=1#post146406

[Ajzride]

To late to tell you I started with a AT ECU and flashed it to a MT.


I knew you had started with an AT, but you also said you had not tested the cruise control.

[Ajzride]

More updates on the wiring thread:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?32777-Coach-1-Wiring-Harness&p=385519&viewfull=1#post385519

[Ajzride]

I got my 2004 ECU in today, it is nothing like my 2006. I read a lot of forums that said there were only 6 pins different. Turns out that is true for 2004 to 2005, but 2004 to 2006 there are only 6 pins that are the same. I've spent the last 6 hours making a translation chart, and I have a few discrepancies to figure out how to solve before I can be certain this will even work. If it does I'll have to re-pin all 4 ECU plugs, and I'm not sure how much ground and shield wiring I will have to modify.

[Ajzride]

After further research, the 2004 ECU is a 16-bit unit and the 2006 is a 32-bit. Technically I can get the 2004 ECU to work, but it will be a lot of wiring updates. I'm going to hold on to the 2004 ECU, but back burner the swap while I try a few other things. First I'm going to take apart my gauge cluster and see if the module that reports to the immobilizer can be taken out and installed separately, in effect keeping my immobilizer and just hiding away all of the components. Second would be contacting ECU labs about a flash. They don't seem to have any US based dealers, but they claim to be able to bypass the immobilizer in the ECU.

I want to give a big thanks to Misha and the team at EcoTech in St Louis. They helped me a bunch with this research, even though in the end they were not able to sell me anything. I highly suggest you guys send business their way when you can.

[DSR-3]

I have an ECU that you can have for the cost of shipping if you want it. I didn't strip my donor, so don't know the year/model.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

After further research, the 2004 ECU is a 16-bit unit and the 2006 is a 32-bit. Technically I can get the 2004 ECU to work, but it will be a lot of wiring updates. I'm going to hold on to the 2004 ECU, but back burner the swap while I try a few other things. First I'm going to take apart my gauge cluster and see if the module that reports to the immobilizer can be taken out and installed separately, in effect keeping my immobilizer and just hiding away all of the components. Second would be contacting ECU labs about a flash. They don't seem to have any US based dealers, but they claim to be able to bypass the immobilizer in the ECU.

I want to give a big thanks to Misha and the team at EcoTech in St Louis. They helped me a bunch with this research, even though in the end they were not able to sell me anything. I highly suggest you guys send business their way when you can.

My 04 FXT ECU is 32 bit. It is very similar pin-out as the 04 WRX STI. You probably got a ECU out of a normally aspirated forester.

Here is a link to a link to a pin out list. https://1drv.ms/b/s!AgduxxAs3q-xgwdh_wlnnU4DFcQE?e=ZEvdEb

[fletch]

I have Bob's 05 FXT ECU which I'd be willing to send to you. If you want it, let me know.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

I have Bob's 05 FXT ECU which I'd be willing to send to you. If you want it, let me know.

That will definitely work.
Her is another document https://1drv.ms/x/s!AgduxxAs3q-xgwhSt3MNaIFhvvfu?e=V7KCXM

[Ajzride]

I really appreciate all the help guys, I hope with your input I can come up with an acceptable solution that doesn't include too much work. After reading your comments and doing some more reading, I think the FXT ECU I have is also a 32-bit, It is certainly DBW, which means 32-bit. After looking at the new links that Bob posted, it looks like the problem is that my 2006 WRX Turbo ECU (and hence harness) do not match the 2006 STI harness that you have referenced in your spreadsheet. My 2006 harness is definitely different. I would think that maybe I had downloaded the wrong manual to make my pinout spreadsheet, but all the colors and empty slots line up perfectly with the manual I used to generate my spreadsheet.

So at this point I'm lead to believe that the FXT ECU I have (or the ones you guys offered me) would work. The problem is still that my harness is all wrong for those ECUs. I could certainly just remove all the pins and put them back in the slots that the FXT ECU called for, and that would probably get me 90% of the way there (except none of the colors would match the ECU drawings), but there are quite a few sensors that have power, ground, and shield tied into my 2006 ECU that are not tied into the ECU on the FXT, and I would have to figure out how to spider that power, ground, and shield into my existing harness. Doable, but doesn't sound very fun.

As an example of what I'm talking about for my ECU pinouts vs the 2006 STI pinouts that Bob listed (which seems to match the pinouts for the FXT), see the attached picture.

116622

If I'm just confused, and someone thinks they can straighten me out easier by talking through things instead of trying to share messages, feel free to call me up at 251.533.2398.

[Ajzride]

Decided it might be helpful to someone else down the road if I post all of the pinout spreadsheets. I intend to make a thread later with all of my wiring information, but if a google search returns this page, i would have for someone not to find what they were looking for.

116623
116624
116625
116626

I went back through the 2006 manual, the pinouts on the STI ECU match those of the 2004 FXT, but the pinouts on the WRX-Turbo match my harness. Yay.

further research shows that the STI didn't swap over to the new harness until 2007, but the WRX swapped in 2006.

https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2821988

[Bob_n_Cincy]

I would use the ECU that matches your harness.
Do you have a schematic that matches your harness?
Bob

[Ajzride]

I would use the ECU that matches your harness.
Do you have a schematic that matches your harness?
Bob

I have the schematics for the harness. The problem with keeping the ECU that matches the harness is once again the immobilizer. I'm okay with hiding a key and an immobilizer box in the car, but hiding a whole gauge cluster is another story. I'm going to see if I the security piece of the immobilizer is an add on board that could be pulled off the cluster and hidden away as well.

[Ajzride]

I wired up the immobilizer today, along with the core functions of the dash. I tried to connect to it with RomRaider Logger and ECUFlash. Neither have much luck. I'm 99% sure the ECU is locked by ECUTek.

I'm using a brand new Tactrix OpenPort 2.0 Cable ordered directly from Tactrix. I've tried it using both my laptop (which uses a VM for running the software) and then I carried a desktop that runs Windows7 Natively out to the garage and had the same results with that one.

When using RomRaider Logger it will connect for about 2 seconds if you time powering up the ECU just right with the data logger init command. It will grab the value of any parameters you have checked, then it disconnects again. When trying to read the ROM with ECUFlash, it requests the seed file and then shuts down the connection.

I've ohmed out all of the data link connectors and they all appear to be correctly and well connected.

116662

116661

[Ajzride]

I work in a really small space, 10x17 with the car, tool boxes, shelves, drill press etc. I'm usually turning sideways to slide around the car when working on it. I've probably smashed my thigh into these front brackets 10 or 12 times, a few times I've caught the corner well enough to draw blood. This week while working on the wiring and crawling around the interior, I slipped and smashed my forearm into the edge of the passenger compartment, and the aluminum panel sliced it wide open. I won't post pics because I have a week stomach and wouldn't want to expose anyone else with one to the images, but it was bad enough I probably should have gone and gotten some stitches.

To prevent further incidents, I hopped on the interwebz and located a "baby proofing kit" which included a bunch of self adhesive foam edge and corner guards. Hopefully this stuff will come of pretty easy when I get ready to start body panels.

116737

116738

116739

116740

[Jetfuel]

Dang AJ...if you thought you needed stitches you probably did....be careful out there

Jet

[sgarrett]

I know exactly what you mean. I cut the bridge of my nose when I hit that part trying to look more closely at the set screw on the Koni adjustment ring. Small car and tight working spaces become tough.

[lance corsi]

I’d try some superglue on that. Sorry bout your luck.

[Ajzride]

I decided before I spent $300 on having the ECU Flashed back to stock by a tuner, I should eliminate any other possible issues that would be preventing me from reading it. I took the ECU out of the car and wired up all of the power, ground and OBD-II connections and tested it in an isolated environment. Still have the exact same issue, can read from it for 2 seconds if you time up power the ECU with the init command from RomRaider or ECUFlash. Guess I'll drop it off at the tuner tomorrow.

116770

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Ajzride,
Here is the original base firmware for a 2004 Forester XT USDM Manual transmission. You can try and flash this. This is what I started width in my 818.


https://1drv.ms/u/s!AgduxxAs3q-xgwkpdzYQKZDSOTAP?e=qRa2pe

[Ajzride]

Ajzride,
Here is the original base firmware for a 2004 Forester XT USDM Manual transmission. You can try and flash this. This is what I started width in my 818.


https://1drv.ms/u/s!AgduxxAs3q-xgwkpdzYQKZDSOTAP?e=qRa2pe

Thanks Bob, but the problem is that I can't flash anything, the ECU has been locked by a Tuner to prevent access by anyone but himself (except I don't know who he is). To flash it I either need dealer/tuner level tools, or have to extract the ECU from the box and build a circuit board tool with a 7055 timers, solder some wires on, etc. I think I'll just let a pro handle it. I've no desire to fry my ECU when it is VIN locked against my immobilizer.

[aquillen]

Could it be it has to have the immobilizer connected in order to cooperate?

[Ajzride]

Immobilizer is connected in the car, I'm told it isn't needed on the bench just to keep the ECU running. In fact the ECU should be up to help troubleshoot immobilizer. The guys on the ROMRaider forum think I need to have power on pin B15 on the bench (ignition), so I'll try that this afternoon.

[Ajzride]

I was able to successfully read the Rom on the bench and log in with logger. B19 is a Green-Red wire that goes hot when the ignition is turned on. When I set up my bench test I had thought it was an output to the coils so I didn't wire it up. It's not hooked up in the car either, and I"m pretty sure that is because I confused it with the Red-Green wire on B19 (only 2 pins over) for the HVAC. I know this is the case because it is rolled up with all of the other HVAC wires. Hopefully I'll get it back in the car today or tomorrow and go for a first start this weekend.

[Ajzride]

Now that the ignition wire from the key to the ECU is hooked up, it actually stays powered up for more than 2 seconds. I can look at values in the ECU in RomRaider Logger. I was able to test the accelerator pedal, coolant probe (heat gun), IAT (heat gun), secondary air pressure (blow baby blow), and a few other things. One thing I'm curious if you guys have any ideas on is my throttle body, it buzzes. I know it's the throttle body because I can unplug it, and the buzzing stops. I homed all of the wires out, they all go where they are supposed to, and the only one that has continuity to ground is PIN3, which according to the wiring diagram just daisy chains to a bunch of other connectors, but Bob's drawings have it going to signal ground. Is it possible the unit is just bad, or maybe just dirty and stuck trying to return to zero? Possibly it's wired up wrong? See video for buzz.


https://youtu.be/ocm-CEwnDFw

[Ajzride]

Apparently the buzz is very common. Can be fixed with a new throttle body, but should be fine if I can put up with the noise. Probably replace it down the road when I rework the intercooler.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Apparently the buzz is very common. Can be fixed with a new throttle body, but should be fine if I can put up with the noise. Probably replace it down the road when I rework the intercooler.

Subaru 2004 FXT DWB (Drive by wire) sounds
First thump is ignition on. Second thump is ignition off.
Hum in the middle is my AWIC water pump.
turn up the sound for this video.




https://youtu.be/rbNfcnnHX8o

If you have noise on the the throttle position sensor feedback signal it will cause the servo to hunt like your video.
Bob

[Ajzride]

Subaru 2004 FXT DWB (Drive by wire) sounds
First thump is ignition on. Second thump is ignition off.
Hum in the middle is my AWIC water pump.
turn up the sound for this video.



If you have noise on the the throttle position sensor feedback signal it will cause the servo to hunt like your video.
Bob

So I have a signal issue to clean up? I do a lot of wiring for work, but I'm really out of my element, I'm a CHE by degree, so I've always been winging it. When you say "Noise on the ... feedback signal" that makes me think dirty ground or EMI.

[aquillen]

https://res.cloudinary.com/aq007/image/upload/v1572393563/Throttle_control_06_dagfts.pnghttps://res.cloudinary.com/aq007/image/upload/v1572393562/Accelerator_position_06_b37vu5.png

Bob has been guiding you so I'll comment but let him take over if he thinks I'm off base. I'll talk about how this works as I understand it, then what would be the things to break. I'm working from a 2006 Impreza wiring and ECM service document, so hoping it matches your info.

Noise on the feedback signal typically means some electrical interference is getting picked up in the wiring that carries the position sensing signal(s). In this case that would be the two "main" and the two "sub" sensor signal paths. Two each because you have separate physical main and sub signal potentiometers ("pots") in the accelerator pedal and a corresponding pair of main and sub signal pots in the throttle positioner. The "sub" pots are needed for 'redundant' position safety checks. The ECM looks at the accelerator and compares those two pots - they should be sending similar signals and if not - the system goes into a fault mode because the accelerator position sensor pots (position information for either or both) are not trustworthy. A similar check is made between the two pots in the throttle positioner. (not that we care but it is typical for one pot to be increasing its output signal while the other is decreasing its signal regarding resistance/voltage output - but in any event they must track each other in a specific manner).

More to the point, the main pot for each "end" - i.e. pedal vs throttle position - are compared frequently by the ECM logic and if they do not match within a tolerance then the ECM adjusts the durations of a continuously pulsing on-off voltage drive signal to the throttle positioner motor to correct the mis-match. The motor moves the throttle butterfly valve or "vane", by working against a closure spring to set the vane position. The main throttle pot is keyed to the vane so it reports the vane position back to the ECM for the comparison between ends to complete a control (pedal) & feedback (throttle position) loop.

So what goes wrong to cause buzzing? The likely culprits in most electronic/mechanical position loops of this style are - mechanical binding/slop or electrical noise, or power supply problems.

----

This system is DC powered, and not from some sort of converted to DC from AC source power such as 60 or 400 Hertz (cycle) power supplies. SO a power supply problem would be below the threshold of likely in my opinion.

Mechanical binding/slop: One of the fail safe design elements in the throttle body is a spring that will force close the throttle body vane quickly if the motor is not being actively managed by the ECM. So the ECM must continue to supply position drive or the throttle closes immediately. For efficient operation the motor is driven by pulses rather than a DC level voltage. This allows for more position power by the motor (usually geared down too but that's just internal guts stuff) with less power consumption. So the motor and gear train work against an extra load (the spring force). If there is binding or in some cases mechanical slop in the gear/linkage parts, the pulse nature of the drive going to the motor can result in vibration keyed to the pulse rate as the motor/gear train either struggles to move the throttle mechanicals, or it chases the position as the slop keeps the pot position "rattling back and forth" as it follows the mechanical position.

So you hear this buzzing. The end result is - as long as the assembly can still move as needed, the buzzing is just an observable event. But since you don't know whether it means failure is coming or not, it is a concern. From WEB browsing as I know you've done, you see others run into this with this Subaru system as well. Fixed by replacing the throttle body from what I see. I usually take stuff like this apart and assess whether I trust it, but I know not many are willing or should do this. Maybe I shouldn't either but there it is.

----

Electrical noise: You can go after this without much hassle really. Since you've been doing wiring on the project maybe you do have a ground that is not doing the job. So looking at wiring for an 06 Impreza I see the main signal wires are shielded, but the sub signal wires are mostly not. This suggests to me Subaru is relying on the main pot signals to do the actual positioning and not the sub pot signals (instead just using them for the matching-check function). Those main signals are shielded to minimize noise pickup which could be sourced from almost anything regarding electrical noise, including the adjacent wires that carry the pulse drive to the throttle body, for example. If your wiring is -

Accelerator main sensor signal - B135-23 ( red )
Electronic throttle control - Main - B134-18 ( red/blue )

These are to be shielded cable wires. Locate the shield connections and ensure they are properly wired. The shield wire paths are slightly complicated to verify because while the accelerator pedal wiring shield is simply done directly to the ECM, the throttle body shielding is in three parts - from the ECM to B200/F74 and then another side from engine ground GE-2 with a disconnect between shields split at connector pair F61/E2. For the ECM shielding side the ground is coming from inside the ECM (see ECM B135-1 ( black/white ). Note they tie through to the ECM via joint connector B122 so that should also be verfied by pins to each destination. The additional shield to verify the throttle control connector E57 pins 4 & 6 shielded pair which have a shield tied to the engine at GE-2.

A very small possibility is that this ECM side shield also ties over to the Test mode connector. That suggests to me just to also verify your problem exists when test mode is NOT connected since additional wiring for that just maybe could insert noise to the shield circuit (if it does fix problem, this suggests the shield wiring is bad or poorly connected somewhere as it should be able to handle the test mode being connected).

[Ajzride]

Thanks for the very thorough explanation Art, your wiring diagram is correct. I'm inclined to think it is a mechanical issue for several reasons:

A) The engine is not running so there should not be any interference, fuel injectors, coils, etc are not running.
B) This seems to be a common issue in many Subarus that is fixed by replacing the TB. If it was electrical a new TB should not fix it.
C)This seems to be a common issue in many Subarus, even fairly new ones that should have good factory wiring

As for test mode, I'm not in test mode while experiencing this issue. When I connect the two line connectors for test mode my fans and fuel pump cycle constantly, so I wouldn't even be able to hear this.

I'll look into how to clean the TB and see if that helps.

Thanks again.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

I'll take a look around tomorrow. I might have an extra electronic throttle body laying around.
Bob

[Ajzride]

I'll take a look around tomorrow. I might have an extra electronic throttle body laying around.
Bob

That would be awesome Bob, If it fixes my problem I'll be happy to pay you for it otherwise I'll send it on back or to the next person who needs it.

[Brd.Prey]

I have one if he doesnt

[Ajzride]

Successfully fired the motor up today. When I first put fuel in the tank and primed the fuel rails, I had bad leaks from both fuel rails. A trip to the stealership for new injector o-rings solved that problem. Let the motor idle for about 15 minutes, then revved it up to redline.

I have an issue with the cooling system, and I'm afraid it means removing the motor again :(

Perhaps I am wrong, hoping the more subaru savvy of you can point me in the right direction. The Water pipe on the driver's side of the car is hot (220F) all the way up the radiator, but the passenger side is cold (77F). Since the driver's side is hot that tells me the thermostat is opening (correct?) which means that my water pump is not pumping and pulling cool water from the radiator into the drivers side pipe. With the rad cap off it doesn't look like water is flow. Any ideas on how to fix this without pulling the motor and removing the front cover to inspect the water pump? Something I might have setup wrong externally that would prevent the water pump from moving water?

Thanks

[aquillen]

It only takes just a little air in a high spot and the pump won't push the water over it. Get your nose up high and make sure you have the air burped out. Squeeze hoses and listen for gurgly noises = probably air mushing back and forth. These pumps are designed to move fluid but not overcome head pressure, so they get "stopped" by air pockets very easily. You need that throttle bypass hose too - didn't dig through your thread to see if you put it in (FFR kit supplied). That lets some hot coolant get from manifold exit back down to the pump inlet so it can warm up the thermostat to get it to start opening. Otherwise engine must overheat before any chance the thermostat will open and flow coolant normally.

[Ajzride]

It only takes just a little air in a high spot and the pump won't push the water over it. Get your nose up high and make sure you have the air burped out. Squeeze hoses and listen for gurgly noises = probably air mushing back and forth. These pumps are designed to move fluid but not overcome head pressure, so they get "stopped" by air pockets very easily.

Thanks Art, right now the back end is up, not the nose. I'll drop the back-end and raise the front and see if i can get it to burp.

[Ajzride]

Art I think you were spot on with the "moving air" issue. I was able to get the radiator and fan to cool the car down several times, but it's still not working right. Only with the car jacked up at certain angles. I think the issue is my radiator. I bought the Griffin unit to replace the stock unit, it turns out a subaru cooling system works completely backwards from what I'm used to an expecting. And by that I mean that the thermostat is on the supply line and blocks flow from the radiator when closed. Every other car I've ever worked on the thermostat was on the outlet and it keeps water in the block until it's hot and then lets it flow to the radiator. So when I bought my radiator, I bought it for supply in the passenger side and return on the drivers side, which is backwards. So now my supply hose is hooked up to the top of my radiator instead of the bottom, which means that unless my radiator is overflowing, then it is trying to suck air into the system rather than water.

The way I see it, I have a few options:

+ Add some extra plumbing and just cross over the piping above the steering rack
+ Have a buddy who is supposed to be good at welding aluminum move my water necks around
+ Buy another radiator
+ Open to suggestions

117050

[Ajzride]

https://youtu.be/KyjSbnsEUT4

Proof

[Ajzride]

After much diagraming, measuring, and thinking, I decided to order a new radiator. I was already going to have to modify my fan+shroud assembly to fit, so a new radiator solved that problem as well. Looks like a 1998 3.8V6 Mustang radiator should fit nicely in the opening, and it still has the fill neck on the corner so it won't interfere with my hood modifications.


Now I am on to the shifter. I'll be using the SW20 unit I picked up off of fleaBay, and need to figure out how to route the cables. I don't think I can have them exit straight back, as that would hit the alternator/AC belt, and I doubt the cable could make a sharp enough turn to avoid it, I'm having a tough enough time keeping the wiring harness out of the belts. I also want to keep things as tight as I can against the rear firewall, so I'm not sure I want to try and route it inside the car to the back corner like Mechie did. I'm really thinking about trying to make something like Art, although I'm not sure I have the mechanical fab skills to do so. Open to ideas from others. Main goal is good shifter feel while preserving ability to put drivers seat all the way back against the firewall.

[DSR-3]

I had a tough time burping mine too, and I have a definite high point near the engine. As Art described, rock it, squeeze the hoses, whatever you can to manually fill the whole system. Not quite sure what "helped" most, but between the efforts and a couple small holes in the thermostat skirt- all is well in mine. Having the rad. outlet on the top looks problematic- head pressure on the inlet makes pumps happy, having to "lift" on the inlet is where they struggle. Good luck!

[sgarrett]

Ditto what has been said. Multiple times (at least 7) raising and lowering the rear end while running the engine until the fans come on. Every time I get another big burp of air out and can shove in more coolant. Squeezing the hoses also helps move things along for sure.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

This picture is the setup that i have. No bleeding or burping necessary. I just run one heat cycle and top off the degas tank.
In place of the swirl tank shown in this picture I use wayne's mod to automatically sucks any air out of the top of the engine.
I have another 5/16 hose hose from the top of the radiator that sucks air out of the top of the radiator. The small hose from the radiator tees together with wayne's mod to go into the subaru degas tank. I think this sketch is for a Pantera. edit (I did put a 1/16 pill in wayne's mod hose to force some of the suction to pull from the radiator.)


117144

[redbudrr]

Dont open the cap on the radiator after you begin the process. Only fill from the coolant overflow tank.

[Ajzride]

Thanks for all the input on bleeding the system guys. I'm changing the radiator because I'm positive it will never work with the feed for the pump being at the highest point in the system. Once I get the rad changed, I should be able to bleed it much easier with all of the tips.

[Ajzride]

Stuck in a hotel on the road for a few days, so I've dug really deep into my digital dash solution I'm wanting to utilize. My initial idea was to us bluetooth OBD connector and a tablet to display all of the data from the ECU onto the tablet using DashCommand or a similar application. When I was dealing with thinking my ECU was locked and ordering the Tactrix cable etc, it never occurred to me that I wasn't going to be able to get the data I wanted because Subaru only supports the most basic OBD parameters, and all the good stuff is hidden via SSM (hence why you need the expensive Tactrix cable or a Cobb AP). There are companies that sell digital dashes that have analog and digital inputs on them that you wire up, and then they display them on a nice LCD screen. The cheapest I have found is about $1,250 and the one I would really like is almost $2,000. I started to look at other methods of being able to pull the SSM data into a tablet. Once method would be to use my Tactrix to access the data and use a Windows 10 based tablet and then code some application that would display all of the data into a dash. I'm not really a fan of using a windows device as a primary function of my car, just not stable enough. I then ran across several device that would take raw analog signals and cover them into an OBD signal, and those were reasonalbly priced (about $250), but then I would still have to wire up all of those signal and they are already in the ECU... so why should I do that. I then decided what I really needed was a SSM to OBD adapter, which I figured I should be able to make from either an Aurdino or Raspberry PI. After a few hours of reading and researching, I stumbled across someone who has already done it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfkFrv7F5E4&t=1s

Although the author has been unresponsive replying to comments on youtube, I did find where his code has been uploaded to GitHub. I've ordered what I think are most of the components I need to put this together, and I'll begin working on a proof of concept next week.

Once I get it worked out, I'll put up a thread in the electrical section with all the details for anyone else who wants to follow suit.

[Ajzride]

Remember when I had that brilliant plan to reuse the deleted TGV position inputs on the ECU to pickup the blinkers and display them on my digital dash.........


117278

guess it was a bad idea.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Remember when I had that brilliant plan to reuse the deleted TGV position inputs on the ECU to pickup the blinkers and display them on my digital dash.........


117278

guess it was a bad idea.
The TGV inputs are 0 to 5 volt signals. The turn signals are 12 volt. Is this what happened?
here is a Magic Smoke refill kit: https://www.sparkfun.com/products/retired/10622
Bob

[Ajzride]

The TGV inputs are 0 to 5 volt signals. The turn signals are 12 volt. Is this what happened?
Bob

Exactly what happened. I assumed everything on a car was 12V, turns out I was wrong.

[Ajzride]

Took on a few small projects with limited time this weekend.

First was getting my radiator squared away. The new mustang unit i ordered looked like shoaled fit, but it had a few odd appendages hanging off the sides that were hitting the frame, so I decided to try and use the one I had and get the coolant pipes crossed over. I spent an hour at the auto parts store looking at tons of hoses and found one that worked perfectly on the supply, but the return was always going to be a long shot. I wound up ordering another 48" section of the stainless flex hose used that to hook up the return. I just need one more power grip to close up the cooling system and then I can try to re-burp the system (once I have a new ECU).

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I was also unable to find a replacement TMIC at a reasonable price, so i had started to look at a FMIC instead, but didn't want to have to deal with the waste gate and more piping, so I decided to take on the tedious task of trying to straighten all the finds on mine which got hit with a power washer. The fins were folded over so hard I couldn't get a small flat-head or needle nose pliers on them, so I 3D printed a triangle shaped rod the same size as the openings (1.5mm x 5mm) and pushed it in through the back side to open the fins back up. I broke several of the rods but finally got all of the fins straightened up and open. It's not pretty, none of them are nice and straight on top, but all of the openings are free and it should move plenty of air.

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[Ajzride]

I've actually been spending a ton of time on the 818, but I've not been posting a lot run the build thread for a few reasons. One is that I'm try9in got break out projects that might be useful to others into side threads. It is really hard to search for specific topics and cool mods when they are buried in build-threads that are 25+ pages long. I've started a thread for the SSM to Can-Bus adapter, I had one for the Coach-One wiring harness, and later tonight I'll start one on my solid-linkage shift setup. The other reason I've been short on post is that there is a lot of stuff mid-progress. Now unlike Art, I can't wait to finish a project before I post progress, but I'm likely doing something wrong and need you guys to stop me before I screw up, but there are some things that it just doesn't make sense to post partial information on.

One thing I've mostly wrapped up is modifying the fuel distribution Y-Block. It came with the car from the previous owner, and apparently it's a very pricey setup, at over $500 for the aluminum block, 2 fuel rails, and the 4 hoses. I'm not sure why it's so freaking expensive, but now that the system is setup for it, I can't find an alternative that would not require reconfiguring the fuel delivery system. The problem I have with it is that it came with 5 NPT to AN adapters, and the NPT side of them leak, all 5 of them. I even bought an NPT tap and re-tapped all 5 holes, and I've tried several sealants with no luck. I've finally had enough of it and decided to covert to ORB to AN fittings. I used some JB-Weld High heat (should stand up to powder coating) to fill in each of the holes. To make sure I didn't get the JBWeld too far down in there, I taped 4 #12 wires together and stuffed them in from the backside. After I had put the JBWeld in (It's a putty) I pulled the wires out. Here are some pics of one side re-tapped.

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[Ajzride]

LInk to shift linkage thread

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?34115-Another-Take-on-Solid-Shift-Linkage&p=388714#post388714

[Ajzride]

Today I decided to start working on fabbing up a bracket for my VW rear brake calipers. I wanted to pull off the existing backing plate, but it looks like that is not possible without pressing out the bearings? That just doesn’t seem right. But I watched a ton of YouTube videos and my setup looks nothing like the 2006 WRX I can find, it appears to be an STi setup.

So unless you guys have a better idea it looks like my options are pull the entire spindle and have the bearings pushed out and back in, or cut the backplate off.

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[Hobby Racer]

Yes, you have to press out the bearings or cut the the backing plates off. I cut the plates off my 2006 WRX rear hubs.

[Ajzride]

Yes, you have to press out the bearings or cut the the backing plates off. I cut the plates off my 2006 WRX rear hubs.

What a poor design, thanks for confirming.

[Ajzride]

I think the plasma cutter is my most fun to use tool.

118415

[Ajzride]

Been making slow progress on the rear brakes. I had ordered new 2006 Passat calipers from amazon because they include integrated electric parking brakes. I then went into total idiot mode and spent 4 days making a mount for the calipers to the spindle before I realized that the calipers didn't come with caliper brackets, and I was making the complete wrong mount. Then it took me an entire day at the pick-and-pull to get the brackets, along with a side trip all over Houston to find the only 14mm triple square socket, which is what VW decided to use to attach the caliper bracket to the spindle (because obviously hex head bolts are for losers). I've now got the mount for the drivers side made up, and I can bolt the caliper up to the bracket, but only if Ieave one of the brake pads out. With both pads and the rotor, I'm too thick for the caliper to slide over. I had the rotor turned, but it only got me 0.5mm of the 1.75mm I need. I'm going to have to sand down my brake pads the rest of the way to get them to fit. It's not ideal, but done carefully it can be done without causing risk of brake failure, so I will work on that when I return from Christmas break.

[fletch]

My other car is a GTI. I feel your triple-square pain.

I also feel your rear-brake-modifying pain. I've been working to fit the Forester XT front calipers to the WRX rear backing plates... Lots of adult words have been involved. Anyway, should have things square away shortly and will post some pics of how it turns out. My two major hurdles are (1) getting the outer surface of the DBA 2657 rotors machined down so they fit inside the caliper brackets, and (2) somehow I managed to bend a backing plate so it's no longer flat/square. Need to figure out a way to make it roughly flat again.

[Ajzride]

Sanding down the brake pads for more clearance is messy business. Shaved 1mm from each pad for 2mm clearance on each rotor.

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[Hobby Racer]

What grit paper did you use and are the pads organic or semi-metallic?

[Ajzride]

What grit paper did you use and are the pads organic or semi-metallic?


80 grit. I believe yellow stuff is organic.

[Ajzride]

Finally got the VW calipers mounted up in final form today, it took a full month (holiday break strung things out).

My new caliper slide bracket mounting bracket (I think I'll call it a backing plate, even though it's not really) was cut from 1/4" mild steel. I cut it with a plasma and cleaned it up with a belt sander. It would have been much smoother if I had used a jigsaw or a cut off wheel, but the plasma is more fun and I'm impatient. Also pictured is the template I used for the plasma.

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Here is the bracket installed after being drilled for mounting to the spindle, tapped to hold the caliper slide bracket, and powder coated.

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The slide brackets required significant work on them to make them fit. The rotors for the Subaru are thicker than the VW, so I had to clearance the slide bracket and the brake pad clips to allow them to fit over the rotor:

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The slide bracket installed on the VW by having the bolts go through the spindle and then thread into bracket. I needed mine to go through the bracket and thread into the backing plate. I tapped the backing plate with a 9/16 bolt so I opened up the threaded hole using a 5/8 drill bit:

120065

Here is the final mounting position

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I powder coated the caliper, but decided to just wire wheel the slide bracket.

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[Ajzride]

I took down my first start checklist and put up my first go-kart checklist:

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[Ajzride]

Has anyone looked at a top exit exhaust a la McLaren 600LT on the 818?

120734

[Hobby Racer]

Been there, done that ;) It's very loud!

Idea started here. (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?23199-John-s-EZ36R-H6-818R-Build&p=289414&viewfull=1#post289414)

120738 120739

[Ajzride]

Was noise your only issue? Did you notice any exhaust smell in the cabin? I was thinking much further back (more like the McLaren) and still using a muffler.

[Hobby Racer]

I have an R so no smell in the cabin. With an S you might have an issue with the exhaust being pulled into the cabin since the windshield makes the cabin a low pressure area. Other than that I had no issues with the placement.

I changed due to the noise factor. Even with mufflers, the pipes are very close to your head and the noise is going to be intense, especially without a helmet on!

[Ajzride]

Sounds like I should skip it. Thanks for the feedback.

[redbudrr]

I have an S with exhaust straight out the rear lower grill and I get quite a bit of fumes, so installed a Plexiglas shield on the roll bar, but still get some exhaust fumes in the cockpit.120755

[Ajzride]

I have an S with exhaust straight out the rear lower grill and I get quite a bit of fumes, so installed a Plexiglas shield on the roll bar, but still get some exhaust fumes in the cockpit.

I knew the lower exit caused fumes, I was hoping a high exit would get it above the suction, although I knew it was unlikely.

[Ajzride]

I plugged in the throttle body that Bob sent me, and it made the same noises that mine did, so I guess I have a wiring/noise issue to track down and eliminate. I'm putting it on my list of things to do down in April as I'm trying to make a track day in March before it gets too hot to be working not the car in a parking lot between laps.

[Ajzride]

Does anyone still have their stock shifter they would be willing to send me? Did a little damage to mine today on the final install, so frustrating.

[idf]

Does anyone still have their stock shifter they would be willing to send me? Did a little damage to mine today on the final install, so frustrating.

I have one you can have.

[Ajzride]

I have one you can have.

Thx, PM sent.

[Ajzride]

Finally got the fuel system back together mostly leak free and was able to fire the car up with the new ECU and make sure it ran. Also was able to shift through gears. Looks like I need to tear apart one of the axles:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCZ4h0075Bc&feature=youtu.be

[Ajzride]

Made really good progress today. First off I was able to install the Baer bumpsteer kit. I have it maxed out and still be able to grab the lock nut, I saw a lot of people saying they used 46mm, but there is no way to use 46mm with the bolt they sent me, the most I could get was about 32. If I need more spacers I'll have to drill the spindle and use a large bolt.

121339

After that the shifter that idf sent me came in, so I was able to modify and install it. Now that I had all of the linkage worked out and shifter, I was able to be much more conservative with my trimming. The shifter assembly itself is much stiffer now.

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Once I have all of the interior worked out and I've built my CNC Router, I may come back and try to make a billet shifter for some visual bling, but most likely I'll put a boot on it and keep it looking like a stock interior.

After that I turned my attention to the drivers side axle. I pulled it out and put it on the bench, and I could not get the two ends to spin separately from each other. It must need to be stretched really good to slip. So I put it back in, and if I don't push the CV all the way into the transmission, everything works, but I'm not sure how much engagement the CV has to the transmission with it sitting like this. Am I okay to leave it like this or do I need to get it seated all the way in. To be clear I can get it to seat all the way in, but that stretches and I'm afraid it will start slipping again if I do. If I need to get it seated, what other adjustments do I have to try and keep it from slipping?

121342

Lastly I took out the manual and went through the front and back suspension to make sure nothing was installed backwards, upside, etc; it all looked good. After that I checked the torque on every single bolt in the suspension and marked it with a sharpie.

Bleed the brakes, install seat belts, burp the radiator, secure loose wiring, take it for a drive around the block.

[redbudrr]

If I am reading your information correctly, the axle ends do not spin separately, they are fixed. The axle must be seated all the way into the transmission to it to operate properly.

[grabera7]

The axle looks like it’s wobbling in your video on the transmission side cv joint. I don’t know if that’s normal but it seems like it’s not. What if you jack up your rear suspension instead of it being unloaded?

[Ajzride]

The wobble in the video was due to the fact that the axle had separated from the CV. I've not thought about jacking the suspension up to see if it helps with keeping the axle seated into the CV, good idea.

[Ajzride]

Very productive day yesterday. Time to start looming and securing the wiring, put on the radiator shroud, clean a few things up then off to alignment.

2 Gallons is not enough for a test drive.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdklKM8BMEE

[sgarrett]

Looks great! Congrats!

[redbudrr]

That first ride is exciting!!! Looks terrific!!!

[sgarrett]

BTW....are those tires the Pirelli P Zero Nero GT?

[Ajzride]

BTW....are those tires the Pirelli P Zero Nero GT?

Yes they are.

[Ajzride]

Still trying to burp the cooling system. I repaired the stock expansion tank and swapped it out with the aftermarket unit I had, then I got crazy with getting the radiator to be the highest point in the system.

122161

I'm still not convinced it is burped properly. It is holding temp at 214 for 30+ minutes, but the fan never turns off, and the temperature will never drop a single degree. The radiator never gets over 80 degrees.

I'm thinking about adding an electric booster pump at the outlet of the radiator.

[idf]

Still trying to burp the cooling system. I repaired the stock expansion tank and swapped it out with the aftermarket unit I had, then I got crazy with getting the radiator to be the highest point in the system.

122161

I'm still not convinced it is burped properly. It is holding temp at 214 for 30+ minutes, but the fan never turns off, and the temperature will never drop a single degree. The radiator never gets over 80 degrees.

I'm thinking about adding an electric booster pump at the outlet of the radiator.

Have you made Wayne's mod ( https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?18090-VCP-Cooling-System-Mod) to the radiator outlet? It is pretty effective. The Lisle Spill Free funnel also helps.

[UnhipPopano]

The expansion tank should have a couple places for vent lines to terminate. In addition to one from Wayne's mod, there should also be one from the radiator and another from the turbo.

Also, did you check the temperatures across the thermostat? If it is stuck closed, you would not get any flow to the front of the car. If all is as it should be, then there was a discussion several years ago about there being two styles of water pumps. The older style moved more coolant.

[redbudrr]

Do you have the 1.3 bar cap on radiator and 1.1 bar on degas tank?

[Ajzride]

I do have Wayne's mod piped into the expansion tank, along with the turbo and 1 other factory line. I believe the port that Wayne's mod is hooked up to fed the oil heater before I removed such a thing. I have a 1.06 bar cap on the expansion tank and a 1.25 bar cap on the radiator.

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Has anyone else found a way to relocate that tank so that you can actually remove the cap. Being right under that cross brace I can't get the cap off.

[AZPete]

Zero Decibel Motorsports, Craig, makes a coolant tank relocator that works perfectly.

http://zerodecibelmotorsports.com/products/coolant-bracket-relocation-kit/

[Ajzride]

I ordered a new thermostat and a funnel, will try again next weekend. Cleaned up some wiring, tweaked my seat base mounts, and then moved on to seat belts. I’m just now realizing I have to fabricate my own lower mounting points, wish I had reAlized this much sooner, I’ve a lot of stuff to remove to give myself room to weld now.

[idf]

I ordered a new thermostat and a funnel, will try again next weekend. Cleaned up some wiring, tweaked my seat base mounts, and then moved on to seat belts. I’m just now realizing I have to fabricate my own lower mounting points, wish I had reAlized this much sooner, I’ve a lot of stuff to remove to give myself room to weld now.

You will need to relocate the coolant reservoir before using the funnel. ZDB's kit os nice, but you can also make your own with some aluminum angles. Photo below.

122220

[sgarrett]

I did the same thing as idf....just offset it with some aluminum strips.

[Ajzride]

Thanks guys, seems like a nice Sunday afternoon project.

[aquillen]

Find anywhere in the coolant hoses that you can squeeze and deform a lot. Then listen close and vigorously have at it. If you can hear gurgling/bubbling sounds somewhere while doing that you know you still have air to get rid of. And that is probably 90% of the time what the cooling issues are with this front rad-rear engine setup IMO.

[Ajzride]

I do believe I have a bad thermostat. If I am correct it is located on the bottom drivers side of the engine, where the radiator supply hose comes in. A laser thermometer shows 235F on the engine side, and 125F on the hose, dropping quickly to ambient before even tracing back to where the hose meets the pipe. I'm going to swap the thermostat and try again.

I whipped up an expansion tank relocation bracket this afternoon, seems like a simple enough task, but by time you measure, cut a cardboard template, cut a wood template, cut a metal plate, drill the holes, clean it up, powder coat it, you've lost 3 hours.

I made mine from a piece of 1/4" steel plate. That is probably overkill for what it is doing, but I happened to have a corner scrap that was the perfect size left over from the VW brake bracket, all I had to do was notch it. so....


122265


The nice part about using a thick plate was I could tap it, and don't to have to deal with a nut on the backside.

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[idf]

I do believe I have a bad thermostat. If I am correct it is located on the bottom drivers side of the engine, where the radiator supply hose comes in. A laser thermometer shows 235F on the engine side, and 125F on the hose, dropping quickly to ambient before even tracing back to where the hose meets the pipe. I'm going to swap the thermostat and try again.

I whipped up an expansion tank relocation bracket this afternoon, seems like a simple enough task, but by time you measure, cut a cardboard template, cut a wood template, cut a metal plate, drill the holes, clean it up, powder coat it, you've lost 3 hours.

I made mine from a piece of 1/4" steel plate. That is probably overkill for what it is doing, but I happened to have a corner scrap that was the perfect size left over from the VW brake bracket, all I had to do was notch it. so....


122265


The nice part about using a thick plate was I could tap it, and don't to have to deal with a nut on the backside.

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122267

Put some hose clamps on there.

For what it is worth, I'm running no thermostat, just a restrictor.

[Ajzride]

Put some hose clamps on there.

It’s just set up for show, I have to replace the hose on bottom with a longer one, then all the clamps will be installed.

[Ajzride]

Friday I got up early and headed to the garage for what was probably going to be a long day. I had to remove the seats, gas-tank (which mean undoing fuel lines and fuel pump and senders etc), and side-wall aluminum so that I could weld in some seatbelt brackets for the floor mounts. It took forever (okay maybe only 19 minutes per side) to drill out all of the rivets on the side panel aluminum. A few of them popped out in only a few seconds, but most of them were not tight and started turning in the hole, and took some real pressure and time to bust off. The mounts themselves were pretty simple, 3/16 plate welded to the square tube frame. I spent a lot time practicing welding over the holidays, but practicing on a flat table and welding vertical and laying in odd positions inside of a car are two different things. In the end I'm sure I got great penetration, but it is still far uglier that I had hoped for:

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While I had the seats out, I modified my mounting brackets because there was a little looseness that caused the seats to rock and chatter a little bit. The old mount had one piece of tube sitting under the seat rail that was pinned between the car frame and the bracket, but this allowed it to rock side to side just a little. I believe this was caused by just a small amount of slack introduced by the riv-nuts I put into the frame for the bracket. Nothing structurally wrong, but annoying to hear the clickity clack. I swapped to a piece on each end of the seat rail, this eliminated any rocking and noise.

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I still have to modify the side panel aluminum to clear the outside seatbelt mounting point, and figure out how to seal it up so I don't get hot air coming off the coolant pipes.

Speaking of cooling... I dropped the thermostat in a pot of water and it didn't open at all until well over 200 (it was marked for 170) degrees and didn't really look like it was opening up all the way ever.

122574

I replaced and now things are working very well.

To fill the system I uncapped the radiator, uncapped the expansion tank, and filled the expansion tank until it was running of the radiator. Then I put the radiator funnel that was recommended onto he expansion tank, and let the car get to temperature and I was sure the thermostat was open and it felt like most of the bubbles were out. Then I capped the radiator and topped off the funnel and let car heat all the way up and cool itself back off a few times using the fan. After I shut the car down I was able to pull the funnel, cap the expansion tank, and let the car heat/cool a few more times. Now that the thermostat is opening and it appears to be burped, the fan only runs for about 45 seconds to pull the car down from 205 to 190.

Thanks for all the advice on the cooling system, that funnel was a huge help, obviously only possible by relocating the expansion tank.

[Ajzride]

And I've reached this point of the project:

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Last week I thought I had the cooling system solved, this weekend, I'm overheating again. I either have another stuck/plugged thermostat, or I have air that is preventing the system from circulating. I used my laser thermometer to get surface temps at different points in the cooling system. The inlet to the block where the thermostat is tells the whole story.

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My gut tells me the thermostat is stuck, because if it was open, there would be better convective heat transfer through the area. The profile looks more like conductive heat transfer. I think I'll pull the thermostat next weekend and see if it looks plugged up.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

AJz,
My cooling system is working great. I just fill it. then let it heat up and I top off the degas tank.
I think your problem is air pockets in the radiator. The water pump doesn't have enough pressure to push the air pocket down to the exit hole of the radiator.
The coolant from the water pump has a couple of choices on where it goes. The restriction in the radiator causes no water to flow that route.
I added a bleed hose from the top of the radiator back to the degas tank.

Here is a Pantera diagram. 123142

You can see on my 05FXT the hose coming from the top of the radiator. 123144

I tied the bleed hose from the radiator to (Wayne's Mod) hose before going into the degas tank. I also put an 1/8" pill in the (Wayne's Mod) hose.

This was a test I did to measure the head pressure on each bleed hose. 123145

[Ajzride]

Thanks for the tips Bob. Time to break out my old fluid transfer textbook and think about the system. I’m really starting to think hard about an electric booster pump.

[Ajzride]

As I started thinking about modifying the cooling system to help with bleeding, my AC unit showed up today and I realized I have to incorporate that into the system anyways, so I might as well get it installed and address the bleeding issues at the same time.

Does anyone remember which build thread had a modified frame around the passenger dash to allow the AC Unit to sit higher in the dash? I know I saw it but after an hour or searching I can't relocate it.

Thanks

[Frank818]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdklKM8BMEE

Very late to the party and off topic but is that old moded Mustang yours?

[aquillen]

As I started thinking about modifying the cooling system to help with bleeding, my AC unit showed up today and I realized I have to incorporate that into the system anyways, so I might as well get it installed and address the bleeding issues at the same time.

Does anyone remember which build thread had a modified frame around the passenger dash to allow the AC Unit to sit higher in the dash? I know I saw it but after an hour or searching I can't relocate it.

Thanks

Try:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?17197-bbjones121-Denver-build/page3
post #108

[Ajzride]

Very late to the party and off topic but is that old moded Mustang yours?

Yes it is. That was my previous project.

[Ajzride]

Try:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?17197-bbjones121-Denver-build/page3
post #108

Thanks Art, I looked through there earlier, but it looks like a few of the pics are no longer valid, so you can't see anything. I could see some of it in his time-lapse once I knew that is where I needed to be looking. Turns out I don't think I need to raise it up. The way the restomod-air unit fits, your feet can slide behind it.

[aquillen]

Odd - the pictures of the frame mod are fine for me - at least ones I looked at.

[Ajzride]

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[Ajzride]

Does anyone know where I could get something like this US Based in 5/8" for heater hose? I've found a half dozen but they are all in Europe, I don't want to wait weeks for them to show up. All I can find US based in 3/8" for fuel hose.

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[aquillen]

How about this from Amazon prime - quick get. Then drill a piece of aluminum scrap plate for tight slide on fit, and finish with some JB weld it on. ??

ICT Billet 5/8" to 5/8" Inch Hose Barb Splice Coupler Repair Fitting Adapter Connector Radiator Coolant Intercooler Heat Exchanger Fluid Designed & Manufactured in USA Bare Aluminum AN627-10A

https://www.amazon.com/Splice-Coupler-Connector-Fitting-Adapter/dp/B07G3K8L45

Or just mount the plate, then push the hose up tight on the fitting = trapped the adapter in place on the plate.

[Ajzride]

I didn't think about JB Weld, I was only thinking I couldn't weld aluminum with my machine. Thanks for the tip Art.

[Ajzride]

I've decided to move the AC Unit about 4 inches to the left, this will make getting the Heather hoses into any sort of bulkhead much easier. It will also place the cross brace between to vents so I will be able to raise the unit up about another 3 inches. I'll get some pictures tomorrow. Space is so tight right there.

[Haakman]

http://www.parrautomotive.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=results/category_id=323/mode=cat/cat323.htm

Dont know if you need 2 but saw these, far bottom right and thought they may work?

[Haakman]

Also saw these

https://www.amazon.com/Beduan-Thru-Bulk-Bulkhead-Straight-Stainless/dp/B07P1Y5R4T/ref=pd_lutyp_rtpb_3_2/137-2409689-1501028?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B07P1Y5R4T&pd_rd_r=814b9bf8-45f7-402a-9665-bf3ca44243fd&pd_rd_w=6Ex97&pd_rd_wg=XRZiR&pf_rd_p=a6e2c5ee-564b-4b8f-b08c-386e20fcecea&pf_rd_r=S3P1FCPWBGYZZPS2J0Q6&psc=1&refRID=S3P1FCPWBGYZZPS2J0Q6

[Ajzride]

Also saw these

https://www.amazon.com/Beduan-Thru-Bulk-Bulkhead-Straight-Stainless/dp/B07P1Y5R4T/ref=pd_lutyp_rtpb_3_2/137-2409689-1501028?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B07P1Y5R4T&pd_rd_r=814b9bf8-45f7-402a-9665-bf3ca44243fd&pd_rd_w=6Ex97&pd_rd_wg=XRZiR&pf_rd_p=a6e2c5ee-564b-4b8f-b08c-386e20fcecea&pf_rd_r=S3P1FCPWBGYZZPS2J0Q6&psc=1&refRID=S3P1FCPWBGYZZPS2J0Q6

Thanks Haakman

I did find the one's from Parr, but after shipping it was almost $55. I don't know why but I just can't convince myself I need to spend more than about $30 on this solution. I know in the scheme of how much these cars cost I should probably just get over it, but sometimes the principle of it bugs me.

The one's from amazon look they would work, not sure how I missed those.

[Ajzride]

Does anyone have an extra steering wheel clock spring, maybe a racer who didn't want a horn pulled theirs out? Mine has a torn ribbon cable on the inside, and I've spent 3 hours on it with no luck so far.

[Ajzride]

These clock springs must be made of glass. Spent all morning at the pick and pull for another one that has wires that don't work.

:(

Guess i'll try the new dropped shipped from Hong Kong and see what kind of luck I have.

[Ajzride]

Updated pics of the AC location. This gives much easier routing of the bulkhead hoses. I'll try to get pictures of the hoses next weekend, its much different on the restomod air unit compared to the vintage air.

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[Ajzride]

I made a separate thread for my cruise control lever mount:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?35177-Factory-Cruise-Control-Lever-with-FFR-Steering-Wheel&p=401430#post401430

While I was messing with the cruise control I made a bracket to drop the steering column down and also allow you to compress the column up to 3 inches.

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The bracket files can be downloaded here:

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4197710/files

[Newkitguy]

any one know how much heater hose (on average) folks are using for ac setups?

[Ajzride]

I was just thinking about that this morning, I'm not at home and can't measure, but wanted to order some. I'm going to order 50 foot, because it seems like I need to run about 28 foot, without accounting for sideways or up and down routing.

[Newkitguy]

probably best idea! what routing are you going with heater hoses down one side (which?) and ac hoses down the other?

[Ajzride]

My current plan to take all of it down the passenger side so I don't have to worry about cleaning the steering and master cylinders on the drivers side of the car. I also plan to build a large plenum on the drivers side to force air into the TMIC. I may change my mind on that when I start routing and see how bulky it is.

[Mitch Wright]

This worked well for me on my TMIC on my R but may not work as well on an S due to the windshield.123561123562123563123564

[Ajzride]

I've spent all week traveling, which means lots of time in airports, airplanes, hotels, and ubers. This is a bad thing for my project, because it is where I start to daydream, research, and watch other builds on youtube. I've got quiet a few ideas to run by you guys, but I'm going to to them one at a time to reduce confusion.

Idea #1: Scissor Hinged Doors.

I know what you are going to say, Lambo doors are played out, every civic in my neighborhood has them... not even Lambo's have them anymore. I hear you, but I do have some reasons for considering this path.

A) My garage is very narrow and scissor doors would help entry/exit a lot.
B) It would allow me to eliminate the relief on the front of the door that is there to allow it to clear the fender. I hate that relief and if I don't go scissor hinges will probably find some other way to remove it. See picture below if you don't know what I'm talking about.
C) My wife would really like them , and as I've stated previously, impressing my wife with this project is key to unlocking my next project which will be my real dream car.
D) I've only seen 2 or 3 cars in my life that had scissors doors. They might be played out in NY or LA, but anywhere I've ever been, they are still unique.

It seems like as light as the doors are, it shouldn't be too hard.

[Hobby Racer]

... impressing my wife with this project is key to unlocking my next project which will be my real dream car.

Ok, I have to ask, what's the real dream car?

[Ajzride]

Something along the lines of a GTM or SL-C with a 100% custom body.

[Ajzride]

any one know how much heater hose (on average) folks are using for ac setups?

I ran 26', but had quite a bit left on each end for trimming. Buying 25' should be sufficient unless you get crazy with the routing:

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123669

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[Newkitguy]

looks good! what bulkhead did you end up going with? your lines all look done really well. Did you build an H in the system or how did you handle the bypass (so that coolant kept flowing through the engine)

[Ajzride]

These are the bulkheads I bought:

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B079QVYR2H?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_dt_b_product_details
https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B079QV8735?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_dt_b_product_details

I used these because the plate is removable. On the refrigerant lines I replaced the plate with one I 3D printed to give the bulkhead a 12 degree angle downwards.

I bought the 4-way heater valve with my kit from Restomod Air to handle recirculation.

[Newkitguy]

are you planning to do the heater valve closer to the motor or up front? also do you mind sharing the cost breakdown for the resto mods kit? i know up until this vintage was the only kit used so providing that info would probably help!

[Ajzride]

I'm not sure on the valve yet because it was on back order, so I don't know physically how big it is, but most likely I will put it in the engine bay since it's the 4 way and not the 2 way, less hoses to route along the sides.

The Restomod Air system is definitely more expensive than the VA. The evaporator is $950, and it doesn't include controls. All of their control knobs are billet, and the cheapest set is $200. I called them and they sold me a set of controls with no billet knobs for $60, which I will incorporate into my stock dash knobs. So the minimum you can get into the system is $1010. It also only comes with enough hose and connectors to get from the unit to the bulkhead. You have to buy the bulkhead and all the hoses / connectors from there through the rest of the system. The Evaporator, compressor, and dryer are not included. I'm not sure what comes in the VA kit. I knew the Restomod unit was going to cost more, but living in Houston, making sure I had excellent cooling for the cabin was worth extra money to me.

[jforand]

Just found it. Lots of reading to catch up on!

[Ajzride]

I'm at the point of abject humiliation and utter defeat.

I used the engine hoist to again lift the nose of the car up to 60" and applied a vacuum system to suck down the coolant system to -27mmHg, and it held there for 5 minutes. I then let the vacuum system suck as much coolant as it could (3.5 gallon) in, which brought it to within a couple inches of the top of the radiator. After I topped it off, I put the cap on, but the car back on the ground, and it's still overheating.

Here is a video of me taking temperature of different spots using a laser. It seems like the thermostat housing is only 135F, which would mean the thermostat is not open and that would explain why the radiator and all of the lines are so cold. I have no idea why the thermostat won't heat up, could there be an issue with my temperature probe and the motor is not as hot at the ECU thinks?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIl3f2z8MT4&feature=youtu.be

[Ajzride]

On second thought I don't think the probe is bad. It reads accurate at ambient, and it reads within 3 degrees of my laser when warm (not hot)

[Bob_n_Cincy]

I'm at the point of abject humiliation and utter defeat.

I used the engine hoist to again lift the nose of the car up to 60" and applied a vacuum system to suck down the coolant system to -27mmHg, and it held there for 5 minutes. I then let the vacuum system suck as much coolant as it could (3.5 gallon) in, which brought it to within a couple inches of the top of the radiator. After I topped it off, I put the cap on, but the car back on the ground, and it's still overheating.

Here is a video of me taking temperature of different spots using a laser. It seems like the thermostat housing is only 135F, which would mean the thermostat is not open and that would explain why the radiator and all of the lines are so cold. I have no idea why the thermostat won't heat up, could there be an issue with my temperature probe and the motor is not as hot at the ECU thinks?

EDIT: I just watched your test drive video. The coolant is supposed to go into the top of the radiator and out the bottom. You have a radiator that is the opposite. This is a big problem. Just looked again, do your hose crisscross in the front of the car?


Any chance the thermostat is installed backward?

The hot water that opens the thermostat comes from 3 places.
1. The heater circuit. Do you have the "U" tube installed that came width the kit?
2. The degas tank. Is this hooked up as OEM?
3. The oil cooler. Is this hooked up as OEM?

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[Ajzride]

Bob

Thanks for such a prompt response.

1) Yes the hoses cross cross in the front.
2) Yes the degas is hooked up as stock
3) the U-was installed until yesterday when I plumbed you the heater core, I made sure the heater valve is open.
4) I don’t think this car had an oil cooler, there was a warmer down by the oil filter, I replaced that connection with Wayne’s mod on the degas tank side, can’t remember what I did with the other side, I will have to crawl under there and look.
5) Thermostat is not backwards, I’ve triple checked that.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

4) I don’t think this car had an oil cooler, there was a warmer down by the oil filter, I replaced that connection with Wayne’s mod on the degas tank side, can’t remember what I did with the other side, I will have to crawl under there and look.


I think what you call an oil warmer is the same thing I call an oil cooler.

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Wayne's mod takes any air in the top of the engine into the top of the degas tank.
The bottom of the degas tank needs to go to the suction port on the water pump.

If you have Wayne's mod plumbed to the water pump. There is no way to get the air out of the top of the engine.
Bob

[Ajzride]

I’ll chase that line that used to feed the cooler and make sure it runs from the degas to the water pump.

[Ajzride]

A huge thanks to Bob and Art, who have both provided me with a lot more information on how the coolant system works and have given me good leads to follow.

A phone call from Art gave me some really good insight on how the Subaru cooling system works. What' I'm used to is American V8s where the thermostat is on top of the block where the water exits to return to the radiator That way when the block heats up, the thermostat opens, and the pump can now push water to the radiator. With Subaru having the thermostat on the inlet there is a need to push hot water from the top of the block where combustion is happening to the thermostat housing to get that warm and opening up to let the pump pull cool water in.

Let me take an aside right to say as an engineer who studied fluid flow and thermodynamics, I think having the thermostat on the inlet is an absolute asinine idea. It leaves no way to really circulate water through the block or heater core to help everything warm up. With the inlet of the pump blocked off, you are left to almost completely to conductive heat transfer to warm everything up. If you have the inlet open, but the outlet block off, but have a bypass around the thermostat that loops back into the block, then you can at least pump the water around the block so that it gets hot via convective heat transfer rather than waiting on conductive. #ENDofRANT


As Bob pointed out hot water to the thermostat can come from 3 places

1) The Degas tank (Mine is hooked into the bottom of the degas tank)
2) The Oil Filter Block
3) The heater core.

As you will be able to see in the attached diagram, I believe I have all 3 hooked up properly, but I'm still not getting hot water to the thermostat, I have some thoughts on each one:

1) Degas Tank - Even though I used a vacuum system to fill my entire coolant system, when I opened the cap of the degas tank this morning it is full of air, no liquid at all. When I put the vacuum system on it water quickly comes up into the tanks and gets spewed out the vacuum exit. Once I shut the vacuum off the coolant recedes. My degas tank has 3 lines, one out of the bottom to the thermostat housing, 1 on the top from Wayne's mod, and one on the top to the turbo. It seems like I'm not going to get hot water from the degas tank to the thermostat unless the water gets hot enough to expand through the Turbo line or Wayne's mod line, and then drain back down the bottom of the degas tank to the thermostat. Doesn't seem like this is happening.

2) The oil filler Block - I remove the actual block from the oil filter, but I just jumped a rubber hose where it used to be, so this is functions as stock. This line is at the bottom of the engine and I'm not sure how quickly the water down there heats up waiting on conductive heat transfer.

3) This is the only way i can see that the engine should be able to properly heat up, but I guess it depends on how the inside of the block is setup with water flow. The return from the heater core goes between the thermostat and the inlet of the pump. So in theory, the pump should be able to push water into the heater core and back to block, this would allow some convective heat transfer to warm up the water in the block. I have a 4 way heater valve, so even with the valve closed water will still circulate through it and back to the block.

I'm really kind of stumped here, this is a crappy setup, but it works in a stock car so I can't figure out why it won't work for me. The only thing I can see that is probably different from the stock setup is that line from Wayne's mod to the top of the degas tank, I'm not sure what used to feed the degas tank on that port.

I'm tempted to remove the stock thermostat, place one inline on the outlet of the block, and have a T right before the block that feeds back to the stock thermostat housing.


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[Ajzride]

I wanted to make sure I was chasing the right problem. To eliminate a bad thermostat, a blockage in the line, or a broken impeller on the water pump, I removed the thermostat and made a plate to hold the gasket in it's place:

124587

With the thermostat in place, the car took forever to warm up, but the whole system did get hot (using a laser pointer) and the fan pulled the temperature from 205 to 195 in under 30 seconds. I let it heat up and pull down 3 times with no issues.

This makes what I saw in the past make sense as well. The day I changed the thermostat the cooling system worked well, and I thought I had a bad thermostat. I realize now what had happened was I had tested the thermostat in boiling water before I installed it, so it was already hot and open when I installed it, so there were no issues with the car not warming it up enough to open.

Now I know for sure that the issue I'm chasing is not getting hot water to the thermostat so that it will open up. Still don't know how to solve it, but at least I know for sure what it is.

[Ajzride]

With a little prodding from Art, I began to try and troubleshoot why the thermostat (when installed) is not getting hot water to it. I began to look at where it should be coming from and try to determine if there were any blockages or impediments.

Reference Diagram:

124616

I started with the heater hoses because I thought that those would move the most water. I removed the hoses at points A and B in my diagram. This is the return from the heater core to the thermostat housing. I was able to use my air compressor to blow low pressure air (20psi) through the line from the back of the block (point A) to the T-Stat housing (point B), indicting that line was open. Next I unhooked the outlet of the water pump that feeds to the heater core (Point E). Then I started the motor up and made sure that the water pump was pushing water out of the feed to the heater core . It did indeed push a lot of water through that pipe (about 0.5 gpm). then I hooked my hose up on low into the feed to the heater core (point E) and let it push all the way through the core and back out the return line (Point A). This indicates that I have a free path from the water pump, through the heater core, and back to the thermostat. My only thought there is that perhaps with the T-stat installed there is not enough head on the water pump to allow it to push water out to the heater core (point E). With no thermostat it was pushing 0.5 gpm, but I'll have to test it again once I reinstall the thermostat.

I also checked the line from the degas tank (point D) to the Thermostat housing (Point C) with low pressure air, and that line is free as well.

[STiPWRD]

I'm really kind of stumped here, this is a crappy setup, but it works in a stock car so I can't figure out why it won't work for me. The only thing I can see that is probably different from the stock setup is that line from Wayne's mod to the top of the degas tank, I'm not sure what used to feed the degas tank on that port.
This barb on the upper cross-over pipe is what used to feed the degas tank in the stock setup. That barb gets plugged when adding Wayne's mod.
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[Ajzride]

This barb on the upper cross-over pipe is what used to feed the degas tank in the stock setup. That barb gets plugged when adding Wayne's mod.
124632

Thanks.

[Ajzride]

This just feels like a totally wasted week, although I did make some progress.

First, I never posted a picture of the water valve installation, which someone had asked about. After I brought the hoses under the LCA mount, I used some 5/8 90 degree fittings to turn them up towards the top of the car. Then I installed the water valve against the front firewall:

125106

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I've had to back burner my issues on overheating for the time being because I can't reliably crank the car. The immobilizer keeps locking me out, and it appears to be random. Bryan at iWire suggested that bad grounds could be the issue, but since he told me to look into that, the immobilize hasn't acted up a single times and I haven't done anything with the grounds yet because I want to see if it will fix the problem the next time it acts up. With the immobilizer acting up, I spent probably 30 hours this week researching solutions to getting rid of the immobilizer. I emailed a half dozen tuners looking for one who would be willing to hack the ECU to remove the immobilizer logic, but none of them were willing to even say it could be done. I did some preliminary reading on what it would take to hack the ECU myself and remove the immobilzer code, but decided that was too far over my head, i struggled enough with an arduino, don't think I could take on ECU code. Next I researched 3 or 4 aftermarket ECUs that are considered Plug and Play, so that I wouldn't have to rewire the engine. There are a few alternatives that meet my requirements such as having cruise control and other not racing items, but in the end they are all geared towards racing and very expensive. In the end I decided that I would take Fletch up on his offer to send me his spare ECU, which is from a 2004 Forester XT, and is a 32bit drive by wire Turbo ECU but does not use an immobilizer. The reason I did not make the switch earlier when he offered was because the ECU pin-out is completely different between the 2004 and 2006. I stayed up until 2AM on Tuesday night going through every pin on both the 2004 and the 2006 ECU wiring diagrams to understand exactly what is different, and make a pin by pin migration plan. In the end I was able to determine that after eliminating all the stuff I don't have (TGV, Secondary Air Pump, Evaporator, Fuel Pressure, Fuel Temperature, etc...), there are only 5 wires on the 2006 ECU that are not on the 2004 ECU, and they are all ground wires for sensors. There are no wires on the 2004 ECU that were not also on the 2006 ECU.

I ordered a ECU Header

125108

And will use the extra ECU plugs that I pulled from the junk yard to make a 2006 to 2004 ECU adapter. This will allow me to unplug my ECU, plug in the adapter, and then plug in teh 2004 ECU. If I get the header made right, the car should fire up and run. If it doesn't, I can always unplug the adapter and go back to my 2006 ECU (if the immobilizer keeps working).

In the absence of being able to work on the overheat issue and waiting on the supplies to make my ECU converter, I started cleaning up all the wiring in the cabin. I got the cruise control switch wired up (I think, I couldn't get it to come on during my short drive around the block), wired up the wipers (and hooked up my motor to make sure it works), grounded a bunch of wires on the gauge cluster to eliminate alarm lights (ABS, Airbag, etc), and started wiring up the HVAC.

If anyone here has wired up HVAC and made the tie-ins to the factory ECU so that the ECU can start/stop the radiator fan and cut the A/C clutch under high loads, please share what information you have about how the ECU interfaces with the HVAC system.

I believe there are 3 pins that I need to look at:

1) A ground from the ECU that goes to the Main Relay and the A/C thermoswitch. I'm not using the Main Relay, and my thermoswitch is only a two wire, so I think I can ignore this one, but I'm not positive.
2) The A/C Compressor Clutch wire. I believe this is a ground signal from the ECU and should be tied into the ground pin on the A/C clutch relay. My aftermarket system has a relay that feeds the low pressure switch, I think this relay ground should go the ECU.
3) Blower Switch. I believe the ECU should get a ground when the blower comes on.

Based on those 3, I'm not sure how the ECU knows when the A/C is on to start the radiator fan. if it uses the blower switch for that, wouldn't that start the radiator fan every time the heater is on as well?

if anyone has a better understand of the logic inside the ECU and how it uses those 3 pins, feel free to share.

Thanks

[Bob_n_Cincy]

This just feels like a totally wasted week, although I did make some progress.

First, I never posted a picture of the water valve installation, which someone had asked about. After I brought the hoses under the LCA mount, I used some 5/8 90 degree fittings to turn them up towards the top of the car. Then I installed the water valve against the front firewall:

125106

125107

I've had to back burner my issues on overheating for the time being because I can't reliably crank the car. The immobilizer keeps locking me out, and it appears to be random. Bryan at iWire suggested that bad grounds could be the issue, but since he told me to look into that, the immobilize hasn't acted up a single times and I haven't done anything with the grounds yet because I want to see if it will fix the problem the next time it acts up. With the immobilizer acting up, I spent probably 30 hours this week researching solutions to getting rid of the immobilizer. I emailed a half dozen tuners looking for one who would be willing to hack the ECU to remove the immobilizer logic, but none of them were willing to even say it could be done. I did some preliminary reading on what it would take to hack the ECU myself and remove the immobilzer code, but decided that was too far over my head, i struggled enough with an arduino, don't think I could take on ECU code. Next I researched 3 or 4 aftermarket ECUs that are considered Plug and Play, so that I wouldn't have to rewire the engine. There are a few alternatives that meet my requirements such as having cruise control and other not racing items, but in the end they are all geared towards racing and very expensive. In the end I decided that I would take Fletch up on his offer to send me his spare ECU, which is from a 2004 Forester XT, and is a 32bit drive by wire Turbo ECU but does not use an immobilizer. The reason I did not make the switch earlier when he offered was because the ECU pin-out is completely different between the 2004 and 2006. I stayed up until 2AM on Tuesday night going through every pin on both the 2004 and the 2006 ECU wiring diagrams to understand exactly what is different, and make a pin by pin migration plan. In the end I was able to determine that after eliminating all the stuff I don't have (TGV, Secondary Air Pump, Evaporator, Fuel Pressure, Fuel Temperature, etc...), there are only 5 wires on the 2006 ECU that are not on the 2004 ECU, and they are all ground wires for sensors. There are no wires on the 2004 ECU that were not also on the 2006 ECU.

I ordered a ECU Header

125108

And will use the extra ECU plugs that I pulled from the junk yard to make a 2006 to 2004 ECU adapter. This will allow me to unplug my ECU, plug in the adapter, and then plug in teh 2004 ECU. If I get the header made right, the car should fire up and run. If it doesn't, I can always unplug the adapter and go back to my 2006 ECU (if the immobilizer keeps working).

In the absence of being able to work on the overheat issue and waiting on the supplies to make my ECU converter, I started cleaning up all the wiring in the cabin. I got the cruise control switch wired up (I think, I couldn't get it to come on during my short drive around the block), wired up the wipers (and hooked up my motor to make sure it works), grounded a bunch of wires on the gauge cluster to eliminate alarm lights (ABS, Airbag, etc), and started wiring up the HVAC.

If anyone here has wired up HVAC and made the tie-ins to the factory ECU so that the ECU can start/stop the radiator fan and cut the A/C clutch under high loads, please share what information you have about how the ECU interfaces with the HVAC system.

I believe there are 3 pins that I need to look at:

1) A ground from the ECU that goes to the Main Relay and the A/C thermoswitch. I'm not using the Main Relay, and my thermoswitch is only a two wire, so I think I can ignore this one, but I'm not positive.
2) The A/C Compressor Clutch wire. I believe this is a ground signal from the ECU and should be tied into the ground pin on the A/C clutch relay. My aftermarket system has a relay that feeds the low pressure switch, I think this relay ground should go the ECU.
3) Blower Switch. I believe the ECU should get a ground when the blower comes on.

Based on those 3, I'm not sure how the ECU knows when the A/C is on to start the radiator fan. if it uses the blower switch for that, wouldn't that start the radiator fan every time the heater is on as well?

if anyone has a better understand of the logic inside the ECU and how it uses those 3 pins, feel free to share.

Thanks

From my 04fxt documentation, here is the AC schematic. There is a GB wire from the AC control switch to the ECU that controls the fans.
EDIT THIS SENTENCE Is INCORRECT

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[lance corsi]

This is why I chose to go aftermarket for my ecu. If you add up the hours spent dieting the wiring harness, you’d be money ahead to work those hours at your job, then buy an ecu with your paycheck. It’s also partially why I decided against a/c.

[Ajzride]

If you add up the hours spent dieting the wiring harness, you’d be money ahead to work those hours at your job, then buy an ecu with your paycheck.

There was a time in my life when this was true, but I haven't qualified for any OT pay in almost 5 years, so that formula is null and void for me. The number one driver for me keeping a factory ECU is so that if I sell the car, someone in another state won't have a hard time passing and OBD-II inspection for registration.

[Ajzride]

From my 04fxt documentation, here is the AC schematic. There is a GB wire from the AC control switch to the ECU that controls
the fans.
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Bob

I have the diagram, maybe I am reading it wrong. I read it as the GB wire is a signal to the ECU to let it know that the blower is on. It's open when the blower is off and grounded when it is on. My question is based on the logic in the ECU. Is that same GB signal the one that the ECU uses to determine if it needs to turn on the radiator fan because the A/C is running? I would think that a signal from the pressure switch/clutch would be a better signal to base that logic on (the BrB maybe?). I could read these diagrams a lot better if they had an arrow showing information flow direction. So I guess maybe my real question is.. the BrB wire a signal to the ECU that the A/C clutch is engaged, or is it a signal from the ECU to allow the clutch to engage. The 2006 diagram is a little more confusing since it has a binary switch instead of a trinary. The switch I have at the moment is a binary, I can upgrade to a trinary if I need to.

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[aquillen]

From reading on and off over the last four years pretty much every year service manual from probably 98 to 06 Subaru, this is my conclusions (educated guesses):

The Br (ECU C9) is used by the ECU to disengage the AC clutch during power demands - hard accelleration for the most part.

The blower signal is input to the ECU B16-GR to let the ECM know the fan is running so it can proactively react to load demand particularly to stabilize idle.

The ECM uses the main relay to enable a lot of sensors, fan relays, etc., but also it is the ECM's own stay alive delay after keyswitch - off. This lets the ECM stay powered on to monitor engine temp and manage fans if needed to keep cooling (a marginally effective way to keep cooling the block, via the slow moving coolant between radiator and block using thermal convection cooling). Eventually the ECM times out or otherwise decides to turn itself off via dropping out the main relay. Another thing (I think) the relay does is keep "clean" power on into the ECM while the keyswitch is bouncing contacts as it is moved by the driver - between run and start for example, or just plain contact bouncing noise.

Not easy to do with the ECU circuit boards, but I have done it a couple times - open it up, trace the line into the board and see if it goes through a resistor of fair value, In other words if you suspect a signal is input to the board, not output, there is a good chance you can trace it to a resistor of a few hundred ohms or K(1000) ohms or more. You pretty much want to try tracing the otherside of the resistor as well to conclude where it goes. If so, it is not likely an output. This is pretty iffy, but sometimes you can figure out what is what, I ended up doing this to figure out why an 03' ECM I had for my 3.0 engine would not turn on my fuel pump relay. In the 3.0 the 03/04 ECM's actually drive a fuel pump PWM control module, not an on-off relay. I also had an '02' ECM and had designed my circuits for it (uses the fuel pump relay), then plugged an '03' at the last minute that I picked up because "it was newer"...

[Ajzride]

Art

i agree that on the 2006 Diagram the Br wire on C9 is an output from the ECU used to kill the AC clutch under load. What I don't understand on the 2006 ECU is how it knows the A/C is on to turn on the radiator fan. I check the fan wiring diagram, and the A/C does not spider into it, the fan is only started by the ECU.

On the 2004 ECU there is an extra pin that has the BrB wire. On the 2004 diagram it looks like the BrB wire is used to allow the clutch to run and the Br wire lets the ECU know it is running.

[aquillen]

I suspect the ECU only turns on the radiator fan based on engine coolant temp, regardless of AC on or not. The AC being on would bring the engine temp up sooner/higher than when AC is off. But the ECU monitoring engine temp would run the fans as needed and as long as the coolant temp is in the desired engine temp range, the AC gets the cooling it needs too.

[Ajzride]

Without the fan on, the condenser doesn’t get air flow at stop lights. I guess it’s not an issue for the stock system. Not sure an aftermarket system can handle that, but it is easy enough for me to let the Coach-1 handle it since all the triggers are ground based.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

I was wrong in post 245 above about the functionality of the GB wire,
Here is the fan control function chart out of the 2006 shop manual.
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