View Full Version : Parts for power brakes
Hi all, i'm wanting to change to power brakes and was wondering if anybody had figured out the parts, over the counter for a setup like Whitby offers?
Thanks
Walt
Ducky2009
02-28-2019, 10:49 AM
Question, what foot pedals are you using, Wilwood or mustang? Because I have a Wilwood pedalbox, I had to make my own brake pedal, post 194. Whitby also sells one.
Check out the link below.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?23523-Ducky2009-MK4-Build-9035&p=293305&viewfull=1#post293305
DadofThree
02-28-2019, 12:07 PM
I have a sn95 pedal box, with '93 brake booster (whitby) and a '95 Mercury Villager MC (abs or non abs - your choice) that needed to have a bit of machining (similar to what whitby does). I enlarged the mount holes on the MC to 7/16" and increased the depth of the MC plunger to 1.00" from 0.875 with a 7/16" bit. If you go with the abs MC, you'll need to do a little bit of adaption to get to the inverted flare brake lines of your car. I used 2 spacers inbetween the MC and the booster.
You'll also need to move the steering flange bearing to the inside of the Footbox,
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5812/23870017925_8a8b2740a5.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Cnj5Hc)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/Cnj5Hc) by D. R. (https://www.flickr.com/photos/annabellerose/), on Flickr
trim the the 3/4" frame tube so that the booster will have room to fit,
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7801/40274379353_1b3dc5eb33_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/24mUHQV)IMG_1983 (https://flic.kr/p/24mUHQV) by D. R. (https://www.flickr.com/photos/annabellerose/), on Flickr
and will also need to enlarge the hole where the booster will enter the footbox. To mate the booster up to the footbox wall, you'll need a spacer in between the booster and the front wall. ReplicaParts.com (http://www.replicaparts.com/BRAKE%20BOOSTER%20SPACER%20PAGE.htm) does a spacer that fits and seals the gap well.
And finally, if you have a sn95 pedal box, you may need to do a little knotching on the pedal box to get everything to fit (because you moved the flange bearing to the inside of the box).
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5684/23764652222_d4e95b92ec.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Cd14a9)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/Cd14a9) by D. R. (https://www.flickr.com/photos/annabellerose/), on Flickr
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/682/23790677411_5fdface0f1.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Cfirxi)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/Cfirxi) by D. R. (https://www.flickr.com/photos/annabellerose/), on Flickr
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5683/23765345332_068794c4a8_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Cd4Bcj)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/Cd4Bcj) by D. R. (https://www.flickr.com/photos/annabellerose/), on Flickr
Hope this Helps!
More Pics (https://www.flickr.com/photos/annabellerose/albums/72157690062719153/with/40274379353/)
Whitby also includes the reservoirs, bracket, hose and nipples that fit in the MC.
CFranks
02-28-2019, 12:47 PM
I already had the MC and remote reservoirs for my manual setup so didn't need the full Whitby setup. I bought a 93 booster (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/aaz-54-73207) and already had a 95 Cobra MC from Breeze. Everything bolted right together, didn't need to machine anything (except for cut a 2.5" hole in the firewall with a hole saw - use a wood template bolted on) and also created 3/8'' spacer between the booster and firewall. For the gap in the frame, I cut the frame at about 1" and 7" and bolted an 8" long piece of square tube on the outside (credit goes to Mike Everson's threads for that idea).
As a caveat, I have yet to drive it so can't attest to how well it all works. I have GT brakes all around so all the parts should match.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7822/47187705562_500b2269ce.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2eTPjSo)Booster (https://flic.kr/p/2eTPjSo)
Jeff Kleiner
02-28-2019, 12:58 PM
For you guys retrofitting from manual to power be aware that if you modified the pivot of your pedal (as you should have if you used a donor pedal box from a car originally equipped with power) you will need to go back to the original configuration. If you use the manual pivot geometry with a power booster your brakes will be ultra sensitive and act kind of like an on/off switch!
Jeff
FF6602
02-28-2019, 01:32 PM
For you guys retrofitting from manual to power be aware that if you modified the pivot of your pedal (as you should have if you used a donor pedal box from a car originally equipped with power) you will need to go back to the original configuration. If you use the manual pivot geometry with a power booster your brakes will be ultra sensitive and act kind of like an on/off switch!
Jeff
Hey Jeff,
This is the first time I've heard about moving the pivot point when using a donor footbox w/ manual brakes. Where can I find the info on that modification? Thanks!
Jeff Kleiner
02-28-2019, 02:47 PM
Got a manual? It'll be in the donor parts prep section.
Jeff
For you guys retrofitting from manual to power be aware that if you modified the pivot of your pedal (as you should have if you used a donor pedal box from a car originally equipped with power) you will need to go back to the original configuration. If you use the manual pivot geometry with a power booster your brakes will be ultra sensitive and act kind of like an on/off switch!
Jeff
Yes i did cut down my brake pedal and am in the process of trying to find a replacement. But thanks for the reminder Jeff.
Anybody needing one already cut down i will trade you and pay shipping, will need to be for 1987 to 1993 mustang with manual tranny!
Thanks
Walt
FF6602
03-01-2019, 12:35 PM
Got a manual? It'll be in the donor parts prep section.
Jeff
Thanks Jeff! I found it in the manual (page 28-29). Now I'll have to go check the car to see if this has been done. As always, I appreciate the heads-up!!
FF6602
03-01-2019, 12:37 PM
Yes i did cut down my brake pedal and am in the process of trying to find a replacement. But thanks for the reminder Jeff.
Anybody needing one already cut down i will trade you and pay shipping, will need to be for 1987 to 1993 mustang with manual tranny!
Thanks
Walt
Walt, I may be just the guy you're looking for. I bought 6602 as an unfinished kit and the pedals are already installed. I'll check them this weekend to see if the brake pedal has been modified. If not, I'd be happy to swap with you. Please stay tuned!
FF6602
03-02-2019, 04:10 PM
I checked out my car yesterday, looking for the brake pedal mod described in the Mk3 build manual and mentioned in Jeff's post. Here's what I found:
1.) The pivot arm has been moved to the lower set of holes referred to in the build manual.
103057
2.) I see no sign that the pedal arm was modified by removing 1.5" between the pivot and the pushrod attachment point, as the build manual instructs.
103058
3.) What I did find was what appears to be a "custom" pushrod extension, that was welded to the master cylinder pushrod. The extension looks like the letter "P" laying on it's side with the loop pointing down towards the floor. Like this crude drawing:
103050
103062
103059
Does this look like it would work for the proper leverage on a manual braking system....?? Or, should I scrap the "custom" pushrod and...
A.) Follow the build manual instructions about cutting and sectioning the pedal, then replace the m/c pushrod?
OR
B.) Switch to aftermarket pedals (i.e. Wilwood or Maximum Motorsports (https://www.maximummotorsports.com/Manual-Brake-Pedal-Kit-1979-93-P678.aspx) Pedals)? Is there a Forum Sponsor that makes/sells such parts?
Craig ,If the brake pedal pad is at the same height from the floor it has been cut down, im out of town for a couple of days, when i get back i will measure the length to compare to yours.
Thanks
Walt
That should be same as the clutch!
Jeff Kleiner
03-02-2019, 07:33 PM
Craig,
What you have there is an adjustable pushrod. It allows you to change it's length to adjust the pedal height but does not change the geometry of the pedal.
Jeff
michael everson
03-03-2019, 07:31 AM
That pedal has bee modified. In fact it was done by me. I don't cut and reweld the pedal. I cut off the pivot on the top and drill a new pivot hole then weld in a new pivot tube.
Your pushrod is a stock modified unit.
Mike
FF6602
03-03-2019, 12:32 PM
Craig ,If the brake pedal pad is at the same height from the floor it has been cut down, im out of town for a couple of days, when i get back i will measure the length to compare to yours.
Thanks
Walt
That should be same as the clutch!
Thanks for the offer Walt. However, based on Mike Everson's reply, it appears unnecessary because he confirmed that the pedal was modified by him! So, I think I'm good to go!
FF6602
03-03-2019, 12:46 PM
That pedal has bee modified. In fact it was done by me. I don't cut and reweld the pedal. I cut off the pivot on the top and drill a new pivot hole then weld in a new pivot tube.
Your pushrod is a stock modified unit.
Mike
Wow! That's great news, Mike! Makes me feel so much better about the braking system -- I'm so glad that you took time to read my post and look at the photos. I wonder if there is anything else on the car that has your name on it? I've visited your website and would be proud to have any of your parts on my car! FYI -- The 6602 Mk3.1 kit was sold in 2008 to a Ronald Brown in Wakefield, RI if that rings a bell. He did the majority of the work to get it to the go-kart stage before selling it to Dave Butler in Deep River, CT in 2017.
Again, thanks for time and interest in my car and everyone else's on this forum! I love the cooperative camaraderie!
FF6602
03-03-2019, 12:48 PM
Craig,
What you have there is an adjustable pushrod. It allows you to change it's length to adjust the pedal height but does not change the geometry of the pedal.
Jeff
Thanks Jeff. I learned lots of good news since yesterday's post from you, Mike and Walt. Much appreciated!
So on the Whitby set up with a fox pedal setup is it plug and play?
Walt
DadofThree
03-05-2019, 03:03 PM
So on the Whitby set up with a fox pedal setup is it plug and play?
Walt
See below: Even with Fox pedal assy, I expect it will be similar process to install. Not exactly plug and play.
You'll also need to move the steering flange bearing to the inside of the Footbox,
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5812/23870017925_8a8b2740a5.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Cnj5Hc)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/Cnj5Hc) by D. R. (https://www.flickr.com/photos/annabellerose/), on Flickr
trim the the 3/4" frame tube so that the booster will have room to fit,
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7801/40274379353_1b3dc5eb33_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/24mUHQV)IMG_1983 (https://flic.kr/p/24mUHQV) by D. R. (https://www.flickr.com/photos/annabellerose/), on Flickr
and will also need to enlarge the hole where the booster will enter the footbox. To mate the booster up to the footbox wall, you'll need a spacer in between the booster and the front wall. ReplicaParts.com (http://www.replicaparts.com/BRAKE%20BOOSTER%20SPACER%20PAGE.htm) does a spacer that fits and seals the gap well.
Hope this Helps!
More Pics (https://www.flickr.com/photos/annabellerose/albums/72157690062719153/with/40274379353/)
Whitby also includes the reservoirs, bracket, hose and nipples that fit in the MC.
michael everson
03-05-2019, 06:20 PM
Craig. Post some pics of the overall car. Lots of us old timers can tell you a lot based on pics.
Mike
Dave, does the whitby setup come with the spacer?
Walt
DadofThree
03-07-2019, 04:27 PM
Dave, does the whitby setup come with the spacer?
Walt
I believe that it did (MC spacers and small spacers for the booster). The spacer from replicaparts.com (http://www.replicaparts.com/BRAKE%20BOOSTER%20SPACER%20PAGE.htm) did not come with the kit. The power brake kit was a complete kit that had a lot of parts and thought put into it.
So it looks like even with the spacer the bearing would need to be moved inside, is that right?
Walt
DadofThree
03-08-2019, 11:21 AM
So it looks like even with the spacer the bearing would need to be moved inside, is that right?
Walt
Yes. Don't pay attention to the title of the blog posts I'm attaching. The frustration was fresh in my head. But you have the advantage of doing this after someone else's frustration of figuring it out.
Day 1 of install (https://buildacobra.blogspot.com/2015/12/started-power-brake-mod.html)
Day 2 of install (https://buildacobra.blogspot.com/2015/12/whitby-power-brake-nightmare-cont.html)
Ok, thanks Dave, i talked to Jeff at Whitbys this morning he said the kit should ship next week, heres hopeing! I ordered the spacer and it should also ship next week.
Walt
Cfranks, where did you get the remote part ?
Walt
I have a sn95 pedal box, with '93 brake booster (whitby) and a '95 Mercury Villager MC (abs or non abs - your choice) that needed to have a bit of machining (similar to what whitby does). I enlarged the mount holes on the MC to 7/16" and increased the depth of the MC plunger to 1.00" from 0.875 with a 7/16" bit. If you go with the abs MC, you'll need to do a little bit of adaption to get to the inverted flare brake lines of your car. I used 2 spacers inbetween the MC and the booster.
You'll also need to move the steering flange bearing to the inside of the Footbox,
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5812/23870017925_8a8b2740a5.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Cnj5Hc)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/Cnj5Hc) by D. R. (https://www.flickr.com/photos/annabellerose/), on Flickr
trim the the 3/4" frame tube so that the booster will have room to fit,
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7801/40274379353_1b3dc5eb33_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/24mUHQV)IMG_1983 (https://flic.kr/p/24mUHQV) by D. R. (https://www.flickr.com/photos/annabellerose/), on Flickr
and will also need to enlarge the hole where the booster will enter the footbox. To mate the booster up to the footbox wall, you'll need a spacer in between the booster and the front wall. ReplicaParts.com (http://www.replicaparts.com/BRAKE%20BOOSTER%20SPACER%20PAGE.htm) does a spacer that fits and seals the gap well.
And finally, if you have a sn95 pedal box, you may need to do a little knotching on the pedal box to get everything to fit (because you moved the flange bearing to the inside of the box).
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5684/23764652222_d4e95b92ec.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Cd14a9)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/Cd14a9) by D. R. (https://www.flickr.com/photos/annabellerose/), on Flickr
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/682/23790677411_5fdface0f1.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Cfirxi)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/Cfirxi) by D. R. (https://www.flickr.com/photos/annabellerose/), on Flickr
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5683/23765345332_068794c4a8_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Cd4Bcj)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/Cd4Bcj) by D. R. (https://www.flickr.com/photos/annabellerose/), on Flickr
Hope this Helps!
More Pics (https://www.flickr.com/photos/annabellerose/albums/72157690062719153/with/40274379353/)
Whitby also includes the reservoirs, bracket, hose and nipples that fit in the MC.
Dave, how did you increase the MC with a drill bit?
Walt
KegMechanic
04-17-2019, 12:30 PM
That pedal has bee modified. In fact it was done by me. I don't cut and reweld the pedal. I cut off the pivot on the top and drill a new pivot hole then weld in a new pivot tube.
Your pushrod is a stock modified unit.
Mike
This is how I did my pedal too. The thought of cutting a brake pedal in half, then butt welding it with a mig welder, sounds like a recipe for disaster to me. Just imagine the weld failed during a panick stop.
Well i have been waiting for the whitby brack kit for over 6 weeks now, it was supposed to be 2 weeks! I'm thinking about going over the counter, anybody know what booster and master fits best without machine work?
Thanks
Walt
I already had the MC and remote reservoirs for my manual setup so didn't need the full Whitby setup. I bought a 93 booster (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/aaz-54-73207) and already had a 95 Cobra MC from Breeze. Everything bolted right together, didn't need to machine anything (except for cut a 2.5" hole in the firewall with a hole saw - use a wood template bolted on) and also created 3/8'' spacer between the booster and firewall. For the gap in the frame, I cut the frame at about 1" and 7" and bolted an 8" long piece of square tube on the outside (credit goes to Mike Everson's threads for that idea).
As a caveat, I have yet to drive it so can't attest to how well it all works. I have GT brakes all around so all the parts should match.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7822/47187705562_500b2269ce.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2eTPjSo)Booster (https://flic.kr/p/2eTPjSo)
Cfranks, did you get the parts that go in the MC from Breeze, that fits the hoses to remote resevoirs?
Thanks
Walt
CFranks
06-14-2019, 12:23 PM
Cfranks, did you get the parts that go in the MC from Breeze, that fits the hoses to remote resevoirs?
Thanks
Walt
Hi. I got them from Lodestone Billetworks - http://www.lsbilletworks.com
CFranks, did you need to move the steering bearing to inside the footbox with your booster?
Sorry to bug again!
Thanks
Walt
CFranks
06-27-2019, 06:59 PM
Yep, had to move it inside the footbox as do most people. I also had made a 3/8” spacer to go between the booster and footbox to locate the pedal properly, but even with that still needed to move the bearing. Was kind of a pain for me since the car was fairly far along, had to loosen the steering rack to get enough play to pull out the steering shaft. Few free to PM if you want to talk on detail what I learned.
Thanks, i have the e-steering and taking it apart is a pain, but am trying to get all the parts i think ill need.
Walt
Cfranks, i got the inserts for the master, where did you get the clips to hold them in?
Thanks
Walt
CFranks
03-31-2020, 07:13 PM
Cfranks, i got the inserts for the master, where did you get the clips to hold them in?
Thanks
Walt
Hi. They're just press fit in and not supposed to require clamps since it's not the high pressure side of things. Mine do have zip ties holding them on, not sure if they're necessary but make you feel good.
I already had the MC and remote reservoirs for my manual setup so didn't need the full Whitby setup. I bought a 93 booster (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/aaz-54-73207) and already had a 95 Cobra MC from Breeze. Everything bolted right together, didn't need to machine anything (except for cut a 2.5" hole in the firewall with a hole saw - use a wood template bolted on) and also created 3/8'' spacer between the booster and firewall. For the gap in the frame, I cut the frame at about 1" and 7" and bolted an 8" long piece of square tube on the outside (credit goes to Mike Everson's threads for that idea).
As a caveat, I have yet to drive it so can't attest to how well it all works. I have GT brakes all around so all the parts should match.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7822/47187705562_500b2269ce.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2eTPjSo)Booster (https://flic.kr/p/2eTPjSo)
CFranks, did you have to move the inner fender liner forward to make room for the larger master cylinder?
Thanks
edwardb
07-01-2020, 01:35 PM
CFranks, did you have to move the inner fender liner forward to make room for the larger master cylinder?
Thanks
Not CFranks (...) but I'll respond since I installed one of those too. Not really practical to move the splash guard. Common solution is to cut a clearance hole. Only sticks through an inch or less. Then attach some kind of cover to the splash guard if you prefer. Ask Jeff Kleiner about the official dog bowl mod. Another of his innovations. :o
CFranks
07-01-2020, 02:19 PM
Not CFranks (...) but I'll respond since I installed one of those too. Not really practical to move the splash guard. Common solution is to cut a clearance hole. Only sticks through an inch or less. Then attach some kind of cover to the splash guard if you prefer. Ask Jeff Kleiner about the official dog bowl mod. Another of his innovations. :o
Hi, I did exactly what EdwardB said. Drilled about a 2.5 inch hole in the splash panel and used Kleiner’s “Fluffy’s Bowl” mod. (Rivet a little cat bowl to cover up the opposite side of the hole)
toadster
07-01-2020, 02:25 PM
I have the wilwood pedalbox and fitted up the Whitby power brake setup...
https://cobradreams.com/2020/05/18/customizing-the-wilwood-pedal-box-for-power-brakes/
definitely requires some tweaking and patience!
I highly recommend the spacer from replicaparts as well since it will seal up the footbox and give the needed space!
http://www.replicaparts.com/BRAKE%20BOOSTER%20SPACER%20PAGE.htm
plus it's a great template to drill your holes!
Great to hear , i already drilled the hole, i have the plastic liners so can try to find something like that to go there.
Thanks guys!
Walt
edwardb
07-01-2020, 08:42 PM
Hi, I did exactly what EdwardB said. Drilled about a 2.5 inch hole in the splash panel and used Kleiner’s “Fluffy’s Bowl” mod. (Rivet a little cat bowl to cover up the opposite side of the hole)
Dog bowl... cat bowl... knew it was one of those. Shopping the car parts aisle at your local PetSmart.
Jeff Kleiner
07-02-2020, 12:30 PM
Dog bowl... cat bowl... knew it was one of those. Shopping the car parts aisle at your local PetSmart.
Yep, or WalMart, Kroger, whatever :)
Here's my $5 solution to the master cylinder into the splash panel issue which has come to be known as the "Fluffy's bowl mod":
http://i5.walmartimages.com/dfw/dce07b8c-5d8a/k2-_f3af76a3-8c26-40d6-8958-45c8034b3f04.v2.jpg
http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g427/sjustice2011/Mk4/7F590CE6-ADBF-4CB5-9E55-4A006A4EAA2B.jpg
http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g427/sjustice2011/Mk4/B4653624-2F28-4FBF-AD00-70EC4F53098C.jpg
Cheers,
Jeff
That looks great, how did you guys mount your reservoirs and where, im having to mount 2 singles for the brake master.
Thanks
Well finally got the brakes changed to the power set up i came up with , they work awsome.
Thanks to you guys that helped with finding parts!
Walt131452