please critique my (already started) bodywork stages

[skidd]

I'm thinking perhaps I should have asked this before starting, but with the plethora of "bodywork" threads on here, I kinda figured I knew what steps to do and when. Or so I thought.

That said.. I'm well under way in the total In-Garage-DIY-body-and-paint of my car.

What I've done so far.
- Fit and gaped everything. Fit and filered drivers door.
- blocked whole car with 80 grit.
- Rage Gold in all seams and various uneven places around both doors.
- 80 grit to decent feather of all rage spots.

Now.. I've just stared to block the whole car again but with 150grit.
Following which I was going to go around and fill all pin holes and small imperfections with Metal Glaze.
After which, I had planned to spray on 2 gallons of FFG2.

As I'm blocking with the 150, I see a decent number of 80 grit scratches that seem pretty deep. I hope the 80 wasn't a mistake on my part. The 150 is taking most of the scratch out, but a fair few still remain.

Keep in mind, I'm brand new to this level of body work, only done small panel repairs in the past.
My only current timeline is that I want to be sure and get paint sprayed well before the heat of South Texas comes on strong.
I'm pretty sure I have enough time, despite my newb status.
I also don't really mind doing a few extra steps along the way, so long as it means an easier time of the final color spray.

I was wondering.. should I instead finish with my 150 block stage and metal glaze, and then spray 1 gallon of FF.
Block to 220
Then spray the 2nd gallon of FF and block to 320

After the FF stage and blocking, I plan to spray a 2k primer, and block to 400 wet. then 500 wet.

Next, a medium dark gray sealer, blocked to 600 wet.

The main body color is a BMW gray (472). It's a medium dark metallic color.
Black stripes.

cheers guys.

P.S. Please excuse the onslaught of bodywork threads I've started recently.. I'll stick to this one from now on.

Now.. it's time to go watch off the layer of red-dust and crack a few new-years-eve beers!!

[Robodent]

Hi If it was me since you already started with 80 next is would be swipe any spots that need fill then knock them down with 80 then 120 then 240 the trick is knowing when to change paper finish everything with 240 or 320 block and a Hutchins DA Then bomb it with primer. If you’d like pm me and talking through it might be easier
Rob

[Jeff Kleiner]

Slick Sand builds more per coat than Featherfill and will do a better job of burying sanding scratches.

Jeff

[GFX2043mtu]

One tip from a guy that’s done a few cars use a disposable rag under your hand when you run your hand over your body work to check it it will show you where you have problems as you can feel it very easily. Get close with 80 then skim coat and go to 120 then start feeling your work for corrections. Do one small then go on to another don’t try to do all the car at once as it won’t work well.

[skidd]

I'm pretty pleased with the rage spots at the moment. I can't detect any waves or low/high spots in it. Which is why I'm on to 150 grit and a few passes with guide coat. Though, the guide coat doesn't seem to show too well on the scuffed red gel coat.

I already bought 2 gals of FFG2, so I'm kinda stuck with using it now. Plus, I read somewhere that FF was a bit easier to spray from a smaller gun tip. Mine only has a 1.7 and a 1.3 to choose from. Any thoughts on doing it in 2 stages? or all at once?

Also.. I've been using a paper towel to help find waves in the body work. Seems to help.

[skidd]

Anybody with some thoughts on my proposed sanding stages? Especially the part about doing the 2 gallons of FF in 2 stages instead of one? If that's even necessary.

[Arrowhead]

Anybody with some thoughts on my proposed sanding stages? Especially the part about doing the 2 gallons of FF in 2 stages instead of one? If that's even necessary.

When it comes to bodywork, less is more. Don't just spray on 2 gallons because you have them, you will just make more work for yourself. and the more layers of "stuff" just increases the risk of chipping or failure from too much product on the surface. I get everything as smooth as possible with filler before shooting any primer.

If you're happy with the filler work, you can move on to your poly primer, but I would still only shoot two coats. Block it with 180 and see how it looks. If it shows a lot of low spots then shoot a couple more and reblock. If the low spots are deep and the sandpaper isn't even scratching in hte middle of the low spot then you might need to use more filler first before repriming.

Don't hose on the primer trying to cheat out of doing more filler work. Once you get it smooth with no low spots with 180, then you can move up in grits while using your guide coat. You may not even need the 2K, but if you want to use it, I'd sand to at least 180, maybe even 320. The 2K will shrink and show 80 grit sand scratches down the road.

Oh and the grey sealer should be shot like your first coat of base coat, no sanding. The sealer is just that, it seals up your filler and primer work and gives the base coat a nice consistent surface to cling to and prevent bleed through of the underlying bodywork and primer.

Hope that helps.

[Robodent]

Agreed 2 gallons of primer is a bit excessive. If it was me doing it and I do have 30 years of body shop experience I would get everything finished in 240 then prime 2 good coats. If your using grey primer use a dusting black guide coat usually rattle can black on top of the primer. Then block it your guide coat shows all the highs and lows. Finish off your primer in 400 or 600 blocking it down then it’s ready for paint . All primer and gel coats shrink up over time so I would finish everything in 240 or better yet 320 trying to fill 180 scratches with primer is not the best idea.

[Robodent]

This is a picture of a guide coat on top of primer I got around to fixing my wife’s 2015 Malibu last month before I started my 35 build. 100034

[skidd]

Thanks guys... good stuff. I guess it seems I'm more or less on the right track. I have a container of that powder guide-coat that I've been using.
After a day of 150 and 180 grit, I still have a couple of low spots that I need to fill with Rage. But, I'm feeling pretty good about most of it. One up side to the shiny red gel-coat, it's a good guide coat.
I based the need for 2 gallons of feather fill on various threads I read in here and on the other forum. Seemed like it was the standard amount that gets thrown on. I've never used it before, so I just went with the crowd.
so.. I guess I'll start by trying to get 2, perhaps 3 coats of the FF on the car after this current blocking stage, and see how level it blocks out too. I think I'll target 220 grit.

[Taz Rules]

I've done a number of show cars as well as other high end paint in a custom shop. I don't have as many years as some of the other guys here, but I've been told I'm very good at my job, and clients continue to ask for me even though I left the shop.

There are a number of ways to skin a cat, and what you are doing seems to be following the basic system, but just for comparison, here is my process...

1. All bodywork
a. Degrease/clean everything. Now get the high spots sanded out of your substrate using 100 grit on a Durablock or other long sanding block. Long, even strokes, and don't forget to crosshatch your sanding pattern.
b. fill the low spots with plenty of body filler (rage is a good one, quality wise, but I find it a bit runny. I prefer Evercoat. That's just preference, though)
c. Blocksand using a durablock and 100 grit. CROSS HATCH!
d. guide coat and blocksand using 150. Cross hatch! Make sure filler edges are feathered. If they are not feathered, then your substrate is low, and needs to be filled again.
e. fill pinholes in filler and fiberglass using a good 2k putty. Use putty sparingly, it sands like bubble gum. I apply it with a razor blade as a spreader, just to give an idea of how thin I put it on.
f. Blocksand putty spots with 150 JUST TO BRING IT DOWN TO LEVEL. Do not oversand.
g. Block or DA your entire car with 180. If blocking, long, even, crosshatched strokes. If DA, go light. Your shaping is done with the coarser grits, specifically the 100. The 180 is only to eliminate scratch (which should be light after the 150... the 150 is only to eliminate the 100 scratch and feather edges) and to provide tooth for the primer to bite onto.

2. Spray filler (optional) (Degrease again... your fingerprints/sweat from your brow/forearms/anything that touched your surface will inhibit proper adhesion)
a. If you are doing an epoxy primer, now is the time. THIN coat. Like, almost translucent thin. This is just to give the spray filler a better surface to adhere to, as epoxy is really nice and sticky. Don't let it go past the window where you need to sand... epoxy is terrible to sand, so if you can, get the filler ready to spray within the window -- the proper amount of time that allows cure but not too much that it needs to be sanded to reopen the coat. The TDS for the epoxy will give you the appropriate time windows. Follow the directions.
b. within the appropriate window for the epoxy (or if no epoxy, once the filler has fully cured and been blocked to your satisfaction to 180 grit) shoot your spray filler. I prefer Slick Sand shot through a 3.0 tip, but since you have the Feather Fill, go ahead. I'm not familiar with the product, but the TDS on the filler will have the suggested nozzle size and mil thickness.
c. block your Featherfill with a durablock and long even, crosshatched strokes. Use guide coat. I knock down my spray filler with 220 grit. I wouldn't use anything coarser than 180, ever. Block till all low spots are down. If you bust through the Featherfill to the substrate, then your bodywork had high spots. You need to knock those down and re-spray. If you have a persistent low spot, you need to re-fill or re-featherfill those spots and block them down. If you did your bodywork correctly and were patient and didn't rush, then this step should not be necessary. Just block til the guide coat is gone.If you use 180, follow with 220 or 240 block. All dry. Guide coat between each grit. Once the guide coat is gone, you are at that scratch.

3. High build primer.
a. Don't forget to blow everything off and wipe down with a mild degreaser. Your body oil will still give you fish eyes/spots/paint problems.
b. Shoot your high-build primer over your featherfill. There is a misconception that spray fillers are primers. They are not. They are fillers, applied very thin. They are not designed to have paint applied directly to them. You need a primer. I recommend a high-build, though a primer-sealer will work.
c. If high build primer, guide coat and block with 240. crosshatch. I can't stress that enough. Crosshatch.
(If primer sealer, there is no point in blocking as you won't have enough build to level anything out. At that point you are just prepping for color.)
d. guide coat and DA with 320 (all of this is dry sanding, btw)
e. guide coat and DA with 400
f. guide coat and DA with 600
g. If you are shooting a metallic (especially silver) or a pearl or mica, guide coat and DA with 800

4. CLEAN CLEAN CLEAN
a. Degreaser and a milder Final wipe.
b. masking
c. wipe your masking paper/plastic with your final wash.
d. blow and tack (needless to say, you blew out and wet down your spray booth... right? RIGHT?)
e. tape billowing plastic and masking material down, to the floor, to itself, whatever. The last thing you want is your paint gun blowing your plastic into your fresh paint. Masking should be tight.

5. Paint
a. suit up and mix your color,
b. use a spray card to ensure coverage
c. don't forget to drop-coat your last coat of metallic or pearl
d. clearcoat and pray

remember, its better to run your clearcoat than to go to thin and have dry spray. Positive Flow Indicators (aka runs) can be fixed, sanded, polished. Dry spray can not be fixed easily.
That said, don't think that if 2 coats of clear are good, 5 are better. Not true. Too many clear coats will cause "pop" where one coat skins over, but the paint below is still gassing off, creating tiny bubbles. This is a sign that you have overdone your clear, and is difficult to fix, and will likely require re-spraying the entire panel including the color.

Now, and only now, once your paint has been at least 24 hours (more depending on conditions in your booth and the type of clear coat) may you wet-sand.
a. I start with 1000 grit on dirt nibs ONLY.
b. then 1500 grit wet on the entire surface. I use 3M Trizact on a DA with a 1/8" throw designed specifically for finish work. Or you can wetsand using traditional paper... short, even strokes. Don't over sand and be careful near edges.
c. I then use 3000 Trizact on my DA (wet) , followed by 5000 Trizact (wet)
d. Now I polish using 3M White, then Gray, then Blue. Remember to use the color coded polishing pads...dont use a white pad with gray polish. I only do blue on show cars and very dark colors.

Voila.

Like I said, there are lots of ways to do it. This was just my way. It's labour intensive, but I've had good results.

[skidd]

Wow.. thanks Taz.. Awesome stuff. Looks like I more-or-less had about the same plan. Good to know I was pretty much on track.
I really appreciate the info.

[skidd]

looks like time spent on the filler was well worth it.
I got a whole bunch of FeatheFill on today. 4 good coats. Boy, that stuff is a PITA due to how fast it kicks. I only managed a quart between gun cleanings. OH well.
In the end, I'm really pleased how it went down and how it turned out. Using my shop lights, I can't find any obvious waves or bad spots in the body. I'm pretty happy with what I've pulled off.. for a 1st timer.
Even the orange-peal was non existent. All those 80 scratches I thought might be a problem... meh! Nada.. they are gone. I do have a few pin-holes to fill, but noting too crazy.

https://www.ludicrous-speed.com/zp/cache/Shanes%20Cobra/TheBuild/IMG_20190105_193135_595.jpg

https://www.ludicrous-speed.com/zp/cache/Shanes%20Cobra/TheBuild/IMG_20190105_193101_595.jpg

https://www.ludicrous-speed.com/zp/cache/Shanes%20Cobra/TheBuild/IMG_20190105_193004_595.jpg

Question... was my gun pressure too high? I was a bit surprised at the amount of over-spray. I thought I had the gun dialed in pretty fair (for a newb) but, there was sure a lot of the overspray on the paper.

[j.miller]

Overspray is normal. That stuff is heavy and the less airflow you have in the booth, the more on the floor. The fact that it went on smooth without (dry spray) across the panels means you had your gun adjusted well. What are you using for exhaust fans? ..da Bat

[skidd]

Thanks Bat... I couldn't find any obvious dry spray (not that I'm an expert in what to look for), and only 1 spot with a bit of orange peel.

I was wearing a proper face mask with proper filter for paints. For my ventilation, I have a modified HVAC blower fan in a DIY box. That sucker moves a crap ton of air. But, for this stage, I only had it just pulling air out of the garage. So, it wasn't the most efficient use of it. I really didn't notice the haze much until the very end of the small gun pot. When it comes time to spray color and clear, I plan to build a sealed tent (10x20) with this blower and a good HVAC filter moving the air through the tent. I'm pretty confident it'll work well. (fingers crossed)

I'm planning to hit the FF with 220 grit next, then 320 dry. Lots of guide coat.
Looking at the finish so far, I'm quit pleased with the lines. I'm optimistic that there will not be a lot of lows and highs.. but.. only blocking will reveal that.
With about 4 coats of FF, I think I have plenty of material to work with.

Question.. how will I know what my next stage should be?
Do I "need" a 2k urethane layer? How will I know if I do? Or, can I go right to 400 & 500 wet on the feather fill if it's straight enough?
Then, put down the sealer, and wet-sand it to 600.

Or.. will I be better served with a good 2k primer/sealer tinted darker for my base coat color? Work this 2k with 400,500,600 and have that be my layer before base coat?
This sounds easier and more forgiving.. but.. newb!

[Taz Rules]

With about 4 coats of FF, I think I have plenty of material to work with.

Question.. how will I know what my next stage should be?
Do I "need" a 2k urethane layer? How will I know if I do? Or, can I go right to 400 & 500 wet on the feather fill if it's straight enough?
Then, put down the sealer, and wet-sand it to 600.

Or.. will I be better served with a good 2k primer/sealer tinted darker for my base coat color? Work this 2k with 400,500,600 and have that be my layer before base coat?
This sounds easier and more forgiving.. but.. newb!

4 coats should be plenty to level it out.

You need something over the Featherfill. Its a filler, not a primer. Putting paint diectly on it is the same as shooting directly over Rage filler... color will absorb and mottle.

I would recommend a high build primer but a sealer will do.

I haven't tried the sealer over spray filler directly, so I don't know how fine to sand. I just do 180 and high build. When I have used sealer its only been on bust throughs. (They happen). The TDS on the sealer will tell you the ideal grit for sanding the substrate. Too fine a grit means not enough tooth for the sealer to get a mechanical bond, therefore poor adhesion and possible bubbling or peeling of subsequent layers. others can probably help on that more than I can. As I said, I'm more comfortable with the high build 2k primer. But neither solution is "wrong" or "right"

Sounds like you have a pretty good grasp on things. Your booth design will work, and seems like a solid design. I look forward to seeing your results

[j.miller]

Block your FF with 150 or 180, 3 coats of 2K Urethane (I like PPGs Shop Line) , Block with 320 dry, wet sand 500gr, non-sanding sealer, base.....etc....another thing to think about (critical) is a heat source. any time you spray something "catalyzed (in our industry) you want to maintain a minimum of 70* during and for 3-4 hours post spray. If you can keep the temp up longer....more better. There is a big diff between "Dry" and "Cured" We want both. Catalyzed products do not like to have their activation cycle interrupted and can take weeks to finish a cycle instead of a few hours...da Bat

[skidd]

Once again thanks guys.
Guess I have some marching orders.
As for heat, I can manage that. My garage has both AC and heat. Once all the base and color is on, how long at what temp would be ideal to leave it bake at? The max I can set my garage at is 30C (85F).

[skidd]

Lol... poor naive newb!! Thinking I'd easily be able to cut down the FF with 220 grit. haha... (facepalm)
Quickly switched to 150 and 180. Much better at making dust. Keyripes!! I thought the red-dust was bad!
And.. DAMN YOU LONG BOARD AND GUIDE COAT!! for Showing me lows and highs that sure weren't their before!!

[Lucky's]

As stated above Slick Sand does a great job. It will fill 80 grit scratches with ease and is easy to sand afterward. This is my normal go to poly high build primer for our resto and high end jobs at my shop.

[j.miller]

Once again thanks guys.
Guess I have some marching orders.
As for heat, I can manage that. My garage has both AC and heat. Once all the base and color is on, how long at what temp would be ideal to leave it bake at? The max I can set my garage at is 30C (85F).

overnight @ 70-75....8hrs @ 85

[skidd]

Thanks Bat.

Also.. just wanted to add.. I've been keeping a timelapse video record of every moment spent working on my cobra. From the day Stewart dropped it off, all the way to the present body work.
It's a bit of a "fudge" but if I calculate the timelaps spent during the "bodywork" phase, I have just over 130 hours spent so far to get to the stage of 1/2 sanded after feather fill.
Mind you, this includes things like modifying the body buck, building a make-shift-dust-tent, drinking beer, neighbors coming to see what all the dust is from... etc.. but.. dang!
To think you pros can get so much farther along, in such a shorter time.. mind-blowing!

[Avalanche325]

I'm no pro. I have painted precisely one car. My Cobra.

Here is a suggestion for when you shoot color. Your panels should be in the orientation that they will be when on the car. Especially with metallic. The metallic particles will lay differently and you could have a hood / body mismatch with the hood and trunk hanging.

Doing your own body and paint is a seriously rewarding endeavor. It gave me some serious appreciation for guys that do this professionally.

[skidd]

Thanks.. Yeah.. I intend to orient the hood and trunk flat like they were on the car. I'm going to copy .. (I think it was Kleiner) hood and trunk flip-flop tables.

[j.miller]

Forget the "Flip-Flop" tables. Finish sand and shoot the bottom of the hood and deck a few days before you are ready to do the whole thing. Turn them over when dry and finish sand the tops. Mask off the bottoms and shoot the tops with the rest of the car. Two things. A. It will give you a chance to shoot a little paint. 2. You don't need to be fiddling with wet paint in the middle of a paint job . Save the circus stunt fly-bys for Capt. O......He's been busted and thrown in the brigg for that move....something to do with "Penny Benjamin"....da Bat

[skidd]

and D. I don't really know how to do that.

Honestly... painting it all at once is something I can wrap my brain around. Though, I need to find enough room for this trapeze act in my make-shift paint booth.
Stripes on tops -> base color all surfaces -> clear all surfaces. makes sense.

I don't really quite understand how to paint and clear one side, let it dry, and paint the other side and get it to "blend" correctly.
I don't know how much paint it'll take to do just the bottom of the hood and trunk. (I'm guessing all I have to do is ask)
I don't get where and how to mask the painted bottom side when time to spray the top.
How do you not end up with some sort of "line" where the tape mask is? Or is that solved with the 1500 grit wet-sand stage?
what do you do about the edges? Painted with the bottom? or the Top?

Though, I like the idea of getting a bit of practice shooting color and clear on an "underside" before going for the big shoot.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Save the circus stunt fly-bys for Capt. O......He's been busted and thrown in the brigg for that move....something to do with "Penny Benjamin"....da Bat

Leave Penny out of this...lessen' you want me to start up with the Wendy Peffercorn, Lacey Underall talk...'cause you know that'll end with a story about the time we picked up that dirty tranny in a parking lot...do you really want to go there?...again? ;)

Capt. O

[j.miller]

and D. I don't really know how to do that.

Honestly... painting it all at once is something I can wrap my brain around. Though, I need to find enough room for this trapeze act in my make-shift paint booth.
Stripes on tops -> base color all surfaces -> clear all surfaces. makes sense.

I don't really quite understand how to paint and clear one side, let it dry, and paint the other side and get it to "blend" correctly.
I don't know how much paint it'll take to do just the bottom of the hood and trunk. (I'm guessing all I have to do is ask)
I don't get where and how to mask the painted bottom side when time to spray the top.
How do you not end up with some sort of "line" where the tape mask is? Or is that solved with the 1500 grit wet-sand stage?
what do you do about the edges? Painted with the bottom? or the Top?

Though, I like the idea of getting a bit of practice shooting color and clear on an "underside" before going for the big shoot.

YOU'RE KILLIN ME SMALLS !!! 951-676-0191 ASK FOR DA BAT AND I'LL TELL YA HOW TO DO IT !!!...….let me get my scale out....on this side we put 7. A whisper of an edge on the underside of a hood...….F. We build something we don't have room for and then run the risk of sticking our fingers in wet paint 5-6 times......BRILLIANT !!!!…...DON'T MAKE ME COME OVER THERE MISTER !!!...DA bAT

[j.miller]

Oh! and getting something to "BLEND CORRECTLY" is like 684 down on the list of crap you need to worry about when you're painting.....Now I'm in a snit....swear to god it's like playng cards with my brothers kids !...da bat

[Jeff Kleiner]

....Now I'm in a snit....swear to god it's like playng cards with my brothers kids !...da bat

I bet you're like my Uncle Jim...he taught my sisters and me how to play poker...well he didn't really teach us to play, mostly just how to place bets, and only taught us enough so that he could beat us then when he did HE KEPT ALL OF OUR PENNIES :(

O

[skidd]

I think my ears are still bleeding from that much deserved verbal lashing I just got from Bat. :)
Thanks Miller.. really appreciate the help (aka setting me straight) on what I'm doing and how I'm doing it .

[skidd]

Question.
Taking into account, the airflow ,which end of my makeshift spray booth do I start at? The end with the exhaust fan? Or the end with the intake filters? Or doesn't even really matter? And which ever end I start at, should I begin with panels? Or the main body?.. or.. in the words of Mr.Miller... stop over thinking it!!

[Jeff Kleiner]

If you're moving plenty of air I don't think it really matters which end...maybe Professor da' bat will have better input. I generally spray in the same order (with no significant logic to it) and I'm pretty sure that Jeff M. does also. My order goes scoop, doors, hood trunk lid, main body---rinse and repeat.

Jeff

[j.miller]

As for the booth....Start spraying closest to the intake and work your way toward the exhaust. Any overspray landing on the car on it's way out gets melted in. As for spraying, I start with the body on the intake end and finish with the loose parts on the exhaust end (that's just how I like it). Play with your set-up to see what kind of room you have to move around and paint accordingly...da Bat

[skidd]

Thanks guys.
Right now I'm 220 sanding the feather fill. Keyripes! What a difference! Sanding to achieve smoothness is so much easier than sanding to make shape! It's almost turned sanding fun!

[j.miller]

If you have already sanded the FF with 150-180gr you go right to 2K urethane then sand the 2K with 320 then 500-600 , seal, paint.....220? Who does that !...da Bat

[skidd]

who does that? Newbs like me over worried about leaving grit scratches in the surface and NOT covering them with the next "layer" of stuff.
I thought the 2k required a 220 surface? Or to be specific, I think it said 180-240. Which my neurons translated to "don't leave any of those 150s on the body".
Too late now though, I'm half way done with the 220.. no point in stopping.

[j.miller]

OH ! OKAY ! everyone just step back.....nothin ta see here......No, NO, seriously !!! He read the directions...…..and this concludes your daily ration of "Bat Crap"......da Crap

[j.miller]

who does that? Newbs like me over worried about leaving grit scratches in the surface and NOT covering them with the next "layer" of stuff.
I thought the 2k required a 220 surface? Or to be specific, I think it said 180-240. Which my neurons translated to "don't leave any of those 150s on the body".
Too late now though, I'm half way done with the 220.. no point in stopping.




Ok, One more thing and I'll leave you alone. I'm glad you are worried about those "scratches" I wish I could. But, NO! I have to know all the real things you should be worried about. Please, continue on in your blissful state of grace and enjoy yourself.....cause it won't last.....you wake up 45years later saying "Why is the rum always gone?"……...Nevermind!

[skidd]

What can I say... Anything worth doing, is worth over-doing!!
Nothing drives me more "da-batty" then doing something, short-changing a step, only to have to go back and re-do it later!!
But, if I "over" build it to start with.. that won't? shouldn't? Might Not? happen...
er.. hang on a 'tic.... you mean there's more "real" things I SHOULD be worried about!!!!
Worse than running out of rum?

[rich grsc]

WHO the hell runs outa RUM? What kinda sick place do you live in?

[j.miller]

I KNOW RICH ! I actually think I just get "SLAMMED" and forget where I left the bottle. OR ! it's my daughter hiding it from me to pay me back for playing tricks on her all the time...….. not very "Piratey" of her.....but, SHE LEARNED FROM THE MASTER !...DA rUM

[skidd]

Yesterday, finished 220 standing on the feather fill (cuz I read the P-Sheets ;) )
Today got 3 coats of PPG ********** JP202 2K primer mixed 4:1:1.
That stuff is way nicer to spray compared to Feather Fill. Reduced it sprayed pretty easy through the 1.3 tip in my gun. (P-Sheets say 1.3-1.6 tip)
It actually went on really smooth on most of the car. I can't find any orange peel.
A couple of spots show what looks like a lot over-spray. And a couple of runs on the inside of the doors. No runs on any of the main surfaces though.
Oddly enough, both over-spray spots are in the same(ish) place. The "Gully" on the top front of the nose, between the headlights and the center nose.
Not sure how that happened. Gun angle when spraying that part of the car? Seems curious that I got the same overspray pattern in the same spot on both sides of the car.
anyway... one more step closer to color. .. despite the revelation that I have still MORE SANDING TO DO!!! Will it ever end!
I've said it before, and I'll say it again... you guys who do this for a living are da-FREAKIN' CRAZY!!

[j.miller]

Well, I believe I told you 1.7-1.8 on the 2k.....but what do I know.....tech sheet ,smeck sheet.....dry times,THAT'S WHAT YOU GET FROM TECH SHEETS ! Tech sheets are like the Book of Bartholomew and Morgan...….more of a "guideline". As for the funny overspray spots,,, The body creates a vortex in that area. Very turbulent...da bat

[skidd]

Is there a magic trick I can use to minimize that turbulence?

[rich grsc]

Hang from the ceiling by your toes, like a bat?? :rolleyes:

[j.miller]

Yep.....go in fast and close. Paint may not be a problem (thinner viscosity)….unlike thick primer through a 1.3 (WHO EVEN DOES THAT !!) skidd,,,,this is where you raise your hand.....now take a bow...da Bat

[skidd]

I can't take a bow, I'm hanging from the ceiling by my toes!!

[skidd]

Finished block sanding 320 today. You guys weren't wrong about that fine talc powder dust getting everywhere. Brutal!
funny how some guide coat and a sanding block can so easily show orange peal in a surface that otherwise looked smooth to the eye.
Next weekend... 400 wet.

[j.miller]

400 has too much scratch…. Wet sand with either 500 or 600, seal, shoot. I seal over 500

[skidd]

So I should go straight to 600 wet after the 320 I just finished?

[j.miller]

Yes ! I know it sounds like a big jump but grit is kinnda exponential . There is about as much difference between 150 &220 as there is between 320 &600. Now I know I keep saying 500 (for a good reason !) ….but you should use 600. If you are tearing your sheet in 1/2 and folding into 3rds you should sand about 2-2.5 sq feet per 3rd. It's all about getting an even mechanical tooth (or scratch) . If you over sand your paper you will loose the tooth for the paint. To sand the body it should take approx. 8 halves, or 4 full sheets. Hood, 1/2 sheet. Deck, half sheet, doors+or-_ full sheet. Hold that paper flat, watch edges digging in and use a sanding pad between the paper and your fingers wherever possible (that's about 98 percent of the car) . Lots of fresh water with a little soap in in. An empty 1qt plastic bottle works well to rinse as you sand....good luck....da Bat.....btw, you will be surprised how fast it sands this time.

[skidd]

Nice.. thanks Bat.
I have a 25 pack of 600 grit wet sand paper that is already cut to 5-1/2" x 9" sheets. Those are what you call 1/2 sheets right? Which means I should consume about 12 or so of these in this stage.
I gotta be honest.. I'm glad you said I can skip the 400 wet stage I had planned. I'm soooooo over sanding!!
And thanks again for reminding me about not over-using a piece of paper. It's easy to forget that it's not just about making it smooth and flat, but also "tooth" for that bite.

[j.miller]

Yep ! those are 1/2 sheets And yes between 12-16. Your gonna loose a couple sheets working the jambs. We cross sand everything but when I'm done I make a couple linear passes in the valleys of the front and rear hips (cross sanding those can leave groves)….we call them "clean up passes". Short linear strokes so you don't create any long grooves...da bat

[skidd]

is that "Short Linear Strokes" a rule for the entire car? Or just the "in the valleys" clean up passes?
I know this 600 grit stage, is a "finishing" stage of sorts. Smoothing out the 320 scratches, making a bite for the sealer.
So.. it's not like I need to use a long-block and the usual criss-cross pattern.
But.. I do still want to use the criss-cross pattern right?
https://img.discogs.com/io9Z5H9LrRkGc_Jy6x8pRMktFb4=/fit-in/300x300/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():qualit y(40)/discogs-images/A-46726-1459319740-5706.jpeg.jpg

[Presto51]

Maybe a little visual aid to help to understand what Da Bat is talking about. The method in the video is dry sanding before sealing. The wet sanding method eliminates the need for sealer, which helps in reduce cost in material etc. But the techniques in the video is about the same.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69ls3GXwYsQ

Hope it helps.

Ron

[skidd]

That did help... thanks. Looks like I pretty much had the right idea too. so... :) Scratch-Removal 101.

[karlos]

Interesting video. Tried to follow along but the only thing I came away with is the knowledge that I didn’t pay Miller nearly enough...

[Presto51]

Interesting video. Tried to follow along but the only thing I came away with is the knowledge that I didn’t pay Miller nearly enough...

Oh he knows you didn't pay nearly enough, but like in the God Father, wait till he "asks" you for a favor in the future. :rolleyes:

Ron

[Jeff Kleiner]

...Tried to follow along but the only thing I came away with is the knowledge that I didn’t pay Miller nearly enough...

Funny thing is that when he and I talk we both think we don't charge enough...so now that we're all on the same page it sounds like the time is right for a rate adjustment ;)

Jeff

[j.miller]

Well! If the RING brothers …..whatever ! Chris Cross everything you can (sometimes ya just can't) ….EVERYBODY SAY JUMP, JUMP,,,,,,, The clean up passes (with short linear strokes) are for the valleys ……(we all know you've had lots of practice with that)…..(because WE have all had lots of practice with that )….oh, and it was not lost on me that he used 400......what a waste of time......I have much more to say but to be honest I'm in a bit of a "snit" smart money don't push me when I'm in a "SNIT"...da Bat

[j.miller]

Still SNITTING but I forgot to say.... all this wet sanding with 600 should be done with a rubber sanding pad roughly 2.5X4in. kinda like thick wetsuit material ,,,,also it has several holes (swiss cheese) bout .5in .

[mburger]

I’m literally eating popcorn reading this thread waiting for the SUTU address. Funny stuff!

[skidd]

I was watching that video, and biting my lip ... 400 grit... 400 GRIT!!! Lol.

Hey.. I have one of these. Is this the block you are talking about?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B003WUYG1O

It seems a bit too stiff though. I've only really used it on a few if the really flat surface and.

I also have a set of SoftSanders. I really like them . The feel way less like they try to dig in. They seem to conform to the curves (curves FTW) really nice. Those and this 16" K-Block have been my go-to. I was planning to use these SoftSanders for the bulk of the wet sand stage.

You know... Bat doesn't even have my car, and somehow I feel like I haven't payed him enough either!

[j.miller]

SO, NO, I don't like that pad you have. I have one of those and it just sits on a shelf (the elf likes to play with it). I couldn't find one on-line but if you shoot me your address in a PM I'll send you one of mine(has built in magic). I have been using these pads for 50 years.....No, not the same one. Most paint suppliers have them...da bat

[Presto51]

I have been using these pads for 50 years.....No, not the same one. Most paint suppliers have them...da bat

Man I sure glad that you clarified that, the visual that was popping into my head was really frightening :eek:

On another note don't forget to play the correct hand sanding music. I usually play this at max power, to help to get in the proper Zen state of mind.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KOUEX_oG9k

Ron

[skidd]

Dude.. seriously.. you're going above and beyond here.
Do you think this SwissCheese pad you're referring to is better enough than these SoftSanders?

https://www.amazon.com/Style-Line-STY0702-Piece-Soft-Sanders/dp/B002YKRKS4/

Or.. so you think these should work just fine? They sure have worked awesome for me so far. I've used the heck out of the Yellow and Blue blocks.
What about this one? Prime can have it delivered by Friday.

https://www.amazon.com/Motor-Guard-SB-1-Flexible-Sanding/dp/B003WUYG1E

I was hoping/planning to get the 600wet sanding started this weekend. Assuming I have what I need.

[skidd]

lol... Thanks ron.. now a Billy Squire song is stuck in my head!!
At least you didn't post this one. (gotta be the worst video of all time)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fR0j7sModCI

[skidd]

Ok.. tried something. That one block I have that Bat says he hates.

(https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B003WUYG1O)

I agree.. I don't love it either. So.. I cut off the blue soft side from the stiffer black side. It's night and day better. I think it's now totally useabe. Quite a bit softer. It easily conforms to the curves now. Starting to wish I did this long ago.

[j.miller]

DUDE ! YOU SO GET THE "TWIG AND BERRIES" AWARD !!! Good on ya mate ! What you have now is about as close to what I want you to use …..without the magic of course.. At this point we are not blocking, we are prepping for paint. Sooooo, you are good to go with your "double throw down modified double custom hand pad" The other thing I was going to suggest was cutting a gray Scotch Brite to size and using it for a pad for your paper. The reason we want something soft is so it doesn't dig grooves with the edges. You are ALL OVER THIS SON ! Start with the flat stuff so you get a feel for the new sanding style …...I'll be back to check on you later...da bat

[Presto51]

DUDE ! YOU SO GET THE "TWIG AND BERRIES" AWARD !!! You are ALL OVER THIS SON ! Start with the flat stuff so you get a feel for the new sanding style …...I'll be back to check on you later...da bat

Hey Jeff when do you tell him about the baby's a$$ feel? :rolleyes:

Ron

[j.miller]

Hey Jeff when do you tell him about the baby's a$$ feel? :rolleyes:

Ron


Hey ! Those were sealed records ! I was acquitted of all charges and it was...….oh, you were talking about the car, never mind...da bat

[skidd]

Seriously Texas! Low 30s and rain this weekend? That BabyBottom is going to be frozen smooth!

[skidd]

Unsurprisingly, daBat was right! Skipping 400 straight to 600 was a good idea. I had no trouble using the 600 to remove all the 320 scratches. Doing this stage of wet sanding with the 400 would have indeed been a waste of my time. The surface is now as smooth as those sealed records!

[j.miller]

TOLD YOU !!!:rolleyes:

[Jeff Kleiner]

Unsurprisingly, daBat was right!

Don't ever doubt daBat (unless he first says "Hold my beer...")

Jeff

[skidd]

I'm suddenly reminded of that scene from Pirates of the Caribbean, when Jonny Depp and Kiera Knightly are left on the deserted island. She burns the Rum to signal for help. He spots the rescue ship and mutters to himself... "There'll be no living with daBat after this".

[skidd]

Sealer to Paint question.
Do I try to get sealer on the whole car before doing the color and clear under the hood and trunk? Or, do I seal,color,clear those first. Then , seal,color,clear the rest of the panels the net day?

My attack plan is along the lines of.
Thur: complete under hood and trunk.
Fri: color and stripes whole car
Sat: clear
Sun: sit back and marvel

[Jeff Kleiner]

I do all sides of all panels in the same session but as you know Bat isn't a fan of my "flippers" and may advise otherwise. If you aren't doing everything all at the same time be mindful of your recoat windows and if necessary let that dictate your order and how far ahead you go with sealer or base.

Jeff

[skidd]

I was planning to use your flip-flop setup, until I realized my diy booth wasnt going to be big enough, that and the 2-step takedown by daBat... So.. underside first, then the rest.

[j.miller]

Just do the bottoms first. Seal, paint, clear. Let them dry for two days. Prep the tops, mask the bottoms and start painting shooting the rest of the car. Sealer (wait 1 hour) , stripe color down the center (wait one hour), set hood and decklid in place and lay out stripes. Remove hood and decklid and finish taping edges and fully masking off stripes. NOW CALL IT A DAY ! 2nd day. You are going to need to do a little light sanding on the over spray (we should have another phone chat for that). Shoot body color, unmask stripes, shoot clearcoat.....

[skidd]

Thanks.
That'll be much easier I think.
Last time we chatted, you had said I'll need to "scuff" off the over-spray with a gray scotch brite pad.
That still the case? Or.. does the master have still more to teach this Padawan learner?

[j.miller]

Gray SB is good but where the overspray is heavy you want to hit it with some 600 dry.....maybe using the SB as a backing pad...…...NEVERMIND! I'LL JUST COME OVER THERE AND DO IT MYSELF...…...da bat

[skidd]

I'll have the Rum waiting for you!!

[skidd]

The Spray Booth is about 1/2 done. It's up, the seams are all sealed with duct tape, and a bunch of led strips for added lighting. The leds, along with the main shop lights.. and ... the ambient light from the open garage doors (I'll be spraying during the day) provide plenty of light to see what I'm doing. There's more light than it looks in the photos due to the auto white balance of my phone camera. Still need to seal in my blower fan and the hvac filters. That'll be tomorrows project. Tonight.. Beer-o-clock.

https://www.ludicrous-speed.com/zp/cache/Shanes%20Cobra/TheBuild/IMG_20190216_193030_595.jpg

https://www.ludicrous-speed.com/zp/cache/Shanes%20Cobra/TheBuild/IMG_20190216_185456_595.jpg

https://www.ludicrous-speed.com/zp/cache/Shanes%20Cobra/TheBuild/IMG_20190216_193030_595.jpg

[skidd]

Paint Purchased!!
Going to spray the underside of the hood, scoop and trunk this weekend.
Then.. next weekend... the rest.
The light at the end of the tunnel is in sight! I just hope it's not an oncoming train ;)

[Boydster]

Cant wait to see color!!

[skidd]

You and me both!!

[j.miller]

Jus cuz I taint sed nuttin don't meen I aint got my I on you boy ….Good shootin brother.

[skidd]

102545

[Jeff Kleiner]

Well...

https://media1.tenor.com/images/50a9cbe122cb163118c0dcb5a1f7393c/tenor.gif?itemid=11188868

Jeff

[skidd]

Just ordered this from Amazon.
It says will render the wearer totally invisible to all people named Jeff.
I should be safe now.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/6174PsFWJSL._SX425_.jpg

[Presto51]

Just ordered this from Amazon.
It says will render the wearer totally invisible to all people named Jeff.
I should be safe now.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/6174PsFWJSL._SX425_.jpg

OHHHHH Your in for it now. Obviously you haven't learn this lesson:

You don't tug on batman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask off that old lone ranger
And you don't mess around with the Jeff

Nice knowing ya.:rolleyes:

Ron

[j.miller]

Just ordered this from Amazon.
It says will render the wearer totally invisible to all people named Jeff.
I should be safe now.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/6174PsFWJSL._SX425_.jpg


Oh! I love those things. Been sleeping in mine for years now. The sad part about them is that as cool as they make you look when you are out and about...they are useless. They really only work when the sun goes out ….. That's when the fart harvesting butt probers start broadcasting to the more intellectual cross section of the planet. WHAT ! This is serious.....I wouldn't make this stuff up.....again....da bat

[skidd]

Ok... I need some EMERGENCY help.
I just put coat #1 on the bottom of the hood trunk and scoop.
FISHEYE!!
I need to know what to do at this point.
I sprayed the hood first, got a few, the trunk 2nd got a FREAKIN' CRAP LOAD, scooop; 3rd and got just a couple.
I have a desicant water trap in my air line, before the filter and regulator. And a very large black-pipe based water trap right after the tank,
And, one of those cheap disposable filters at the gun.
I pre-paint wiped down all surfaces, then tack-clothed them all.
Is this crap I left behind on the panel? Or .. something in my air line?

Here is the worst spot on the trunk

https://www.ludicrous-speed.com/zp/cache/Shanes%20Cobra/TheBuild/IMG_20190223_134728_595.jpg

What do I do? I'm going to need to stop, let it dry, and sand it, right?

Of all the things that could go wrong.. this is the worst case scenario. :(

[skidd]

Well.. I'm committed now. (count down to daBat beat down starts now)

I called a buddy of mine who has far more experience than I have.
Showed him the pic, asked for guidance.
He said. "stop... let it cure, sand it and start over again".
:( I was not happy with this advice. but.. I made my bed.. time to sleep in it.
I asked him.. nothing else I can do huh?
he said.. "well.. uh.. yeah. .no. I mean.. uh.. well.. No".
?? I heard that.. what are you not telling me.
He said.. I have tried something with marginal success . If you try it, it's all on you.
he said, try a few light "dusting" coats over the fish eye. See if it starts to cover it.
If it does, go ahead and try a normal coat after that.
It will NOT fill the craters, but it "might" emphases on "MIGHT" cover the fisheyes.

So.. I figured.. .if I'm going to have to sand it worst case.. I'll try this first.
It pretty much worked. Actually better than he lead me to believe it might.
The fisheys did leave small craters, but at least it's the under-panel surfaces.
I actually have to look close to see them, but they are there.

Good news: at least I don't think I can blame my air supply.
Bad news: clearly I didn't do a good enough job cleaning the surface.
Good news: It's the under panels that this happened on, and I can live with that.
Bad news: daBat and Kleiner are going to see this soon.. and I'm gonna git'it!!

[Jeff Kleiner]

Bad news: daBat and Kleiner are going to see this soon.. and I'm gonna git'it!!

I'd have taken it off rather than trying to bury it... I'm going to leave this one to Dr. Miller because he's the chemist (in spite of the fact that I like blowing smoke up his skirt he's one smart guy and you can take his advise on problems like this to the bank). Lots of things could have caused it so the big concern is what. Compressor blowing oil? Contamination in your hose (my paint hoses only get plugged into air that's been through the dryer/separator, never the regular shop air)? I don't think it's residue left from a final wash cleaner---in my experience that will craze rather than fisheye. It will be interesting to see what daBat has to say.

Sorry man :(

Jeff

[skidd]

Got ahold of daBat on the phone.. and he talked me down from the ledge!! :)
Good news is, he's fine with the "cover it up" I did.
Especially given they are under panel locations.
We went through how to avoid it happening next weekend when I do the rest of the car.
In short... I need to "wash" the whole car again.
We both more-or-less agree it was something on the panel, because I'm getting no more fisheye after that initial one.
So, it's almost certainly not in my lines. (fingers crossed).
Plus... I didn't put down sealer on these underside panels, while I intend to put down sealer on the main surfaces next weekend. Technically, that gives me a layer of "oops" to recover from.

Here is the result of my "dusting" repair, and 2 coats of clear (2 more to go). I'm really quite content with it .. again.. given it's under the trunk afterall.

https://www.ludicrous-speed.com/zp/cache/Shanes%20Cobra/TheBuild/IMG_20190223_165823_595.jpg

[JETAV8R]

Great recovery!

[j.miller]

4 coats of clear on the bottoms?.....SAVE SOME CLEAR FOR THE REST OF THE JOB !...… WHAT CLEAR ARE WE USING AGAIN ? I WORRY WITH DOING 4 COATS YOU COULD HAVE SOME SOLVENT "MICRO POP" PROBLEMS. 3 max.... sorry for yelling....my radio was turned up and didn't know if you could hear me...da Bat

[j.miller]

I'd have taken it off rather than trying to bury it... I'm going to leave this one to Dr. Miller because he's the chemist (in spite of the fact that I like blowing smoke up his skirt he's one smart guy and you can take his advise on problems like this to the bank). Lots of things could have caused it so the big concern is what. Compressor blowing oil? Contamination in your hose (my paint hoses only get plugged into air that's been through the dryer/separator, never the regular shop air)? I don't think it's residue left from a final wash cleaner---in my experience that will craze rather than fisheye. It will be interesting to see what daBat has to say.


sorry man :(

Jeff



Well, I do like having smoke blown up my skirt....and he likes doing it (his words)…..One more time O-Ring and we'll be married in 16 states ! xoxo...da Bat

[skidd]

4 coats of clear on the bottoms?.....SAVE SOME CLEAR FOR THE REST OF THE JOB !...… WHAT CLEAR ARE WE USING AGAIN ? I WORRY WITH DOING 4 COATS YOU COULD HAVE SOME SOLVENT "MICRO POP" PROBLEMS. 3 max.... sorry for yelling....my radio was turned up and didn't know if you could hear me...da Bat

The clear I went with was the PPG Vibrance Line. per yer recommendations. See.. I do sometimes listen!!.. sometimes.
I mixed up 16oz of the stuff, and figured I might as well use it since I can't save it. Hope I don't get these micro-pops ya speak of.
coat 1 was pretty light. I might have been a bit paranoid from the base color fish-eye, so I went a bit light to start. coats 2,3 and 4 were pretty wet.
It's all been baking in my garage with the heater set on max (30c/85F) for about the last hour.
Looks pretty good so far. A ittle bit of orange peel in a couple of places, a couple of dust specs.. but most of it seems to have leveled out pretty nicely.
Actually.. the problem spots on the trunk surface.. where all that fisheye was.. looks almost the best! Whodathunkit. I looked as close as I could, and couldn't find the fisheye craters.

[j.miller]

OK, so with the Vibrance gives you alotta film build. To put 4 coats on you need skill and patience (I do not recommend you try). 3 coats with 12-15 mins between at 75* to where the clear is sticky but no longer stringy (checked on the body in the gas cap recess, under tail light gasket covered area and same in front under marker lamp. checked on doors under door latch area. checked on decklid under plate light) Loading wet on wet will get you into trouble with the micro pop (that is solvents trapped in the first coat trying to escape through a drying top coat)

[skidd]

Would I see these micro-pops by now? Because as of this morning, the under panels look really good! A few dust particles which have introduce tiny "bumps" in the finish, and a couple of minor orangepeel spots. and what looks perhaps like a spot of tiger-stripe right beside the scoop opening (see pic). But, no bubbles under the surface anywhere. Did I escape this round relatively unscathed all things considered? Truth be told, except for the handfull of dust bits, these panels turned out fantastic. Despite the trunk looking like the face of the moon after coat #1. I looked as close as i could, and I can not find any of the fisheye craters or anything.

Hey.. when It eventually comes time to color sand the whole car... do these underside panel surfaces get wet sanded and polished too? Or .. to they generally get left alone?

P.S. I'm absolutely in LOVE with this color!! There is no doubt in my mind I made the right choice.

https://www.ludicrous-speed.com/zp/cache/Shanes%20Cobra/TheBuild/IMG_20190224_081139_595.jpg

https://www.ludicrous-speed.com/zp/cache/Shanes%20Cobra/TheBuild/IMG_20190224_081157_595.jpg

[j.miller]

OH SHUT UP !! Yes you would see them by now. Best I can describe is kinda looks like sugar on the surface. God bless beginners luck.....but now that you have used it all up on the bottoms (WHO DOES THAT ) be mindful of all we have talked about. I do nib and polish the bottom of the hood but not the deck lid (cause it's not my car and I don't care). It's really up to you......god knows ya got enough material ta work with under there ! Stay in touch brother. I will try to be available to you on paint day ….answer questions, hold your hand, talk you down from the ledge,,,,,,OH LOOK ! HE'S LAYING IN THE DRIVEWAY MAKING "GRAVEL ANGELS".....FACE DOWN ! ….I wonder what went wrong. Yeah, it's like that !

[skidd]

Beginners Luck FTMFW!!
A wise old sage once told me... "Beginners Luck is the reason seasoned professionals give for newbs proving that any joker can actually do their job". ;)
Seriously though.. thanks for the help Miller. I was freakin' nervous as hell right before pulling the trigger on the first coat. I've dropped a pretty large chunk of $$$ on this paint, and screwing it up was going to hurt. I think I stood there with the gun aimed for about 2 minutes before I grew the coconuts to pull the trigger. Then to see that fisheye fiasco.. I thought I was toast!! Pulled that one out of my a$$.

Now...
I have my next weekend planned now. Weather permitting.
Friday: clean, scuff, dry (beer); Mask painted surfaces; (beer)
Saturday: Spray Sealer (beer); Spray Black primary stripes (beer); Mask Primary Stripes (beer); Spray Silver pin-stripes (beer);
Sunday: Mask silver pin stripes (beer); Spray Primary Color (beer); Spray Clear (beer)
Monday: Go see doctor to remove rocks from face after making gravel angels. Stop to buy more beer on the way home.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Saturday: Spray Sealer (beer); Spray Black primary stripes (beer); Mask Primary Stripes (beer); Spray Silver pin-stripes (beer);
Sunday: Mask silver pin stripes (beer); Spray Primary Color (beer); Spray Clear (beer)


Are you separating the third color pinstripe from the main stripe or are you having it against the stripe like this:

https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/48394939_1835235339932499_8283819718624673792_n.jp g?_nc_cat=105&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-2.xx&oh=a2bfce03dbf6bb7ea78595cb308e1979&oe=5D1DACF0

If you're going to do it like the photo I use a different sequence---spray the pinstripe color, mask it, spray stripe color, mask it, spray primary, unmask, spray clear. Everywhere you see a comma in that sentence add beer. Don't forget to also add it after clear. Now, I know my friend Miller does it differently...instead of adding beer at every comma he adds rum.

O

[Papa]

Beginners Luck FTMFW!!
A wise old sage once told me... "Beginners Luck is the reason seasoned professionals give for newbs proving that any joker can actually do their job". ;)
Seriously though.. thanks for the help Miller. I was freakin' nervous as hell right before pulling the trigger on the first coat. I've dropped a pretty large chunk of $$$ on this paint, and screwing it up was going to hurt. I think I stood there with the gun aimed for about 2 minutes before I grew the coconuts to pull the trigger. Then to see that fisheye fiasco.. I thought I was toast!! Pulled that one out of my a$$.

Now...
I have my next weekend planned now. Weather permitting.
Friday: clean, scuff, dry (beer); Mask painted surfaces; (beer)
Saturday: Spray Sealer (beer); Spray Black primary stripes (beer); Mask Primary Stripes (beer); Spray Silver pin-stripes (beer);
Sunday: Mask silver pin stripes (beer); Spray Primary Color (beer); Spray Clear (beer)
Monday: Go see doctor to remove rocks from face after making gravel angels. Stop to buy more beer on the way home.

Geeze! Did you and Miller buy the same defective respirators? I grew up in my Dad's body shop, I know the symptoms. All kidding aside, you're doing a great job!

Dave

[j.miller]

Lets talk on thurs or Friday about stripe layout.....I got secrets I'll share...da Bat

[skidd]

Respirator? is that a thing? ;) kidding. Not sure if we got the same defective respirators, but I'm pretty sure we've been drinking from the same defective rum. PPG-DT885 right? same rum you drink right Miller?

Thanks for the props though. I'm havin' a blast learning this as I go.

@Kleiner.
This is what my inspiration is. Slightly different colors, but this layout. So.. silver pin-stripes around the main black stripe.
102697

In my head, as I imagine laying out the masking, it always seems easier to do the black, then the silver.
But, I also know full well that putting black on top of silver is far easier than the other way around.
silver -> black -> main color?
or
black -> siver -> main color?

The thing I like about putting down the silver first, is it seems easier to mask that stripe, and slap down the black on top of it.
Then, just add to the mask after laying down the black. Though, I sure as hell have to get the placement of the masking tape perfect.
Where as,building out the mask from the black, out to the silver seems less prone to error.

Dang you freakin' painters. Dang crazy bunch. the whole lot of you!!

[j.miller]

Oh god no ! I never drink reducer...…..I'm 60. I have to drink "Hardener"...…..unless it last for 4 hours...…..THEN YA DRINK THE REDUCER !......there's a saying. Hardener before reducer you'll never get looser. Reducer before hardener , you're gonna owe her an apology. So, I know it doesn't rhyme but I didn't just make it up......I didn't.....NO I DIDN'T...……….I'M TELLIN MY MOM !!!!

[skidd]

Anybody have preference/opinion on stripe taping sequences? Both of these seem perfectly viable, and one seems a touch easier and less error prone.

This is the template I'm planning to use
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3_R3syzovEpYkRSalZ3QXVtOVE/

Masking materials I currently have on hand:

1x roll of 3m vinyl tape 1" x 36yrd
1x roll of 3m vinyl tape 1/4" x 36yrd
1x roll of 3m vinyl tape 1/8" x 36yrd
2x rolls of 3m 36mm green automotive masking tape
2x rolls of 3m 48mm green automotive masking tape
lots of that 3m blue tape from Home Depot.
roll of general purpose brown masking paper.



Option 1: (main stripe -> pin stripe -> base color)

Spray black primary stripe color. Cary to approx to body gullys.
Pull 36mm (1.4") 3m green tape line down center of entire car as guide.
Pull 1" blue vinyl tape beside center guide tape.
Remove 36mm center guide tape.
Measure out to other side of both stripes.
Pull 1" vinyl tape at outter edge measurements.
Fill primary stripe mask area with 48mm green 3m tape
Spray silver pin stripe down center and both edges of masked black stripes
Pull 1/4" vinyl tape at exact edge of black masked areas.
Spray base color (gray) on whole shee-bang



Option 2: (pin stripe -> main stripe -> base color)

Measure out and Spray silver down center and outside edges.
pull 1" vinyl tape down center as guide
pull 1/4" vinyl tape tight along center guide
Remove 1" center tape.
Measure out and pull 1/4" vinyl tape for outer pin stripes
Spray black primary stripe color
On top of pin-stripe tape, tape and fill black main stripe. (silver and black are all covered.
Spray Base Color.


Option 2 somehow seems less error prone to me. If I spend the time and effort to perfectly lay out the 4 pin stripes. and I mean PERFECTLY!! Then masking the black is easier because I just have to run tape on top of the pin-stripe masks. No need to try and get a run of tape perfectly beside another run of tape.

[Jeff Kleiner]

2

o

[skidd]

Thanks Kleiner.
If I do go option #2, (which I'm leaning to)... is it worth running a bunch of brown masking paper on the outer edge before spraying the black primary stripe? In an effort to keep from trying to cover "black" with "gray"? And .. to keep any over-spray down too?
Or .. just spray the black to the body gullies and let teh gray do it's thing on top of the black? Just a bit paranoid about trying to cover that black paint with the gray paint.

[Boydster]

C'mon, man, spray the thing already! Ok, just kidding, had to get that out, Whew. Thanks.

[j.miller]

Oh hell go with #2. I wouldn't use vinyl tape to pull the center (too stretchy) I use 1" blue painters tape for that. Doesn't stretch and it's lower tack...da bat......I wouldn't go with # 2 either but I want to see if you still have the "luck"

[skidd]

C'mon, man, spray the thing already! Ok, just kidding, had to get that out, Whew. Thanks.

Your wish is my command!! :)

I'm ahead of schedule today, and the weather is good. 55F outside, but a nice 70F in my garage with the heater running.
So.. Planning now to get the sealer sprayed on in the next hour or so. Let it dry enough... then the 1st stripe color.
Then, tomorrow morning 1st thing, I'll spend the time necessary to lay out the stripe masking.
Which, if things go smooth, should have all layers done by the end of the day. Left to bake in my garage all night at 85F
Since a cold-snap is in the forecast for Sunday, this should work out well.
So.. it BEGINS!!

[skidd]

So far... So good!
Sealer went on nice. No orange peel, can't see any overspray (not that I have an expert eye) , and most importantly... NO FISHEYE!!!

Now, beer break while I let the sealer dry enough for the pin stripe color.

[JETAV8R]

Good luck today. Waiting for pictures!

[skidd]

Beer Break!!
Stripe masking went pretty well. Took a bit over 3 hours to lay them out.
Both primary and pin-stripe colors went on pretty well.
Now, I'm waiting until the stripe color is dry for final masking.
Then.. main color!!

[j.miller]

Fingers crossed !

[Jeff Kleiner]

Fingers crossed !

Ditto...'cause you know what a gallon of paint is? A wise man once told me that it's 128 ounces of trouble looking for a place to happen :)

Good luck man---you've done your homework and are gonna' do good!

Jeff

[Boydster]

OMG, no pictures! After all we've been reading?!?! Lord, gonna drive me to drinkin... wait, nevermind. Prolly gonna hit us with an explosion of em when its done.

[skidd]

Holy FreeWholee. Metalic paint is every bit has hard to spray as they say it is! Trying to avoid tigerstripe was brutal! I think I pulled it off, but only the light of day in the sun is going to reveal if I did.
Tomorrow, I'm going to be spraying on the clear. Tonight.. Beer!!
P.S. I've said it before.. and I'll say it again.. HOLY SCHMOLY I LOVE THIS COLOR!!

https://www.ludicrous-speed.com/zp/cache/Shanes%20Cobra/TheBuild/IMG_20190302_200557_595.jpg

https://www.ludicrous-speed.com/zp/cache/Shanes%20Cobra/TheBuild/IMG_20190302_200606_595.jpg

https://www.ludicrous-speed.com/zp/cache/Shanes%20Cobra/TheBuild/IMG_20190302_200612_595.jpg

https://www.ludicrous-speed.com/zp/cache/Shanes%20Cobra/TheBuild/IMG_20190302_200639_595.jpg

[JETAV8R]

The clear will be hard to see as well as you will like when spraying unless you have excellent lighting. I sprayed a lot of the clear with a shop light in my left hand and the spray gun in my right. I have two 18000 lumines led lights in my ceiling and two floresent light fixtures on the walls. You just can’t have enough light.

[FF33rod]

That is looking sexy!!

[j.miller]

Really ! Girls in the paint booth ! Ok, so, the thing we like about girls is that they smell good (among other things). The problem is that things that smell good are not good for paint......It's like" crying in baseball"...…."THERE'S NO GIRLS IN THE PAINT BOOTH !".....other then that you are looking good...da Bat

[Boydster]

That looks fantastic.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Good job :cool:

Jeff

[Straversi]

Very cool. Congratulations. I tip my hat to all of you who paint. Great job.
-Steve

[skidd]

..Aaaaaaaand. Cleared!! Some orange peal on a lot of the surfaces, but nothing that shouldn't wet sand out.
A few more dust nibs than I would have liked, but.. so be it.
The trunk turned out the best. Almost as smooth as glass.
4 coats of clear. Partly because the pSheets said I could, and partly to see if that "Luck" Miller speaks of is still hanging over my head.
These photos are an hour after the last coat.

https://www.ludicrous-speed.com/zp/cache/Shanes%20Cobra/TheBuild/IMG_20190303_121346_595.jpg

https://www.ludicrous-speed.com/zp/cache/Shanes%20Cobra/TheBuild/IMG_20190303_121356_595.jpg

https://www.ludicrous-speed.com/zp/cache/Shanes%20Cobra/TheBuild/IMG_20190303_121404_595.jpg

https://www.ludicrous-speed.com/zp/cache/Shanes%20Cobra/TheBuild/IMG_20190303_121443_595.jpg

The worst orangpeel spot.
https://www.ludicrous-speed.com/zp/cache/Shanes%20Cobra/TheBuild/IMG_20190303_121457_595.jpg

[j.miller]

Well done brother !!!! Adult beverages are on SKIDD !!!...da bat

[DadofThree]

Fantastic work!

[Jeff Kleiner]

Well done :)

Jeff

[WIS89]

WOW, that looks great! I really like your color choices also.

As others have mentioned, I admire the folks that do their own body work and paint. You have done a terrific job!

Please post some pics out in the daylight when you can; I bet that color just pops in the sun.

Very nicely done!

Regards,

Steve

[skidd]

Thanks for the props.. and the help guys!!
Seriously!! I think I could have pulled off something of quality without all the forum help, but nothing nearly as good as it came out!
Besides.. I'd still be sanding 220 before FeatherFill (Who does that?)
You guys have been instrumental.

[srobinsonx2]

Wow. That looks great. I'm jealous. Wish mine looked that nice. Also wish I was brave enough to paint black.

When it warms up I'll be looking for an excuse to drive. How about an invite to come take a peek?

[skidd]

Weather permitting.. I'll be most likely in my driveway color sanding and buffing for the next few weekends.. (no idea how long it'll take) so.. consider yourself invited!!

[j.miller]

thanks for the props.. And the help guys!!
Seriously!! I think i could have pulled off something of quality without all the forum help, but nothing nearly as good as it came out!
Besides.. I'd still be sanding 220 before featherfill (who does that?)
you guys have been instrumental.





I KNOW ! Right !!!

[skidd]

Am I crazy... (Loaded question)...Or is the clear coat more level today? How long until the clear stops leveling out? There just seems like less orange peel now.

[Jeff Kleiner]

You might be crazy and that's OK so long as you are willing to own it (ask Miller, he'll tell ya)---just don't be crazy and try to say you're not.

As for laying down, yeah. What clear did you use? My go to is 5 Star Xtreme Klearkote (proving that you don't have to be able to spell to mix up batches of clear coat) and it absolutely keeps flowing out and laying down for 24 hours. The downside for production shop users who want to shoot the car in the morning and deliver it that afternoon is that you really can't cut it for 48 hours but that's actually a good thing for us because it leaves a full 2 days to drink beer and watch paint dry.

Cheers,
Jeff

[skidd]

Well... The voices in my head, were arguing with the voices in Miller's head. They came to the conclusion that one of us is a meat popsicle. Clearly, they mean Miller.. so.. he is the crazy one around here.

The clear I used was PPG Vibrance. Miller suggested it was pretty forgiving for a Newb to spray, and also really made a paint job pop.

[j.miller]

Well... The voices in my head, were arguing with the voices in Miller's head. They came to the conclusion that one of us is a meat popsicle. Clearly, they mean Miller.. so.. he is the crazy one around here.

The clear I used was PPG Vibrance. Miller suggested it was pretty forgiving for a Newb to spray, and also really made a paint job pop.




So, You take "my" advise....and call me crazy. I'll chew on that one for a bit till it comes out the other end....then you can have it back. Two things are happening. 1. The clear stops flowing in about an hour. It will however "tighten up" and "lock down" as the solvents escape. In your case (happens to all of us sooner or later) I recommend Cialis two hours befo……...WHAT JUST HAPPENED HERE ! You're explaining, you're trying to help and then BAM...…..anybody else just hear that ? I heard a bam, no idea. Anywho! What you are actually seeing (or not seeing) Is C. You spent a lot of time painting and concentrating on something very important to you. You were using everything your body and mind could supply to complete this task. The sense that became most focused was your eyes....(HOWEVER !), your brain added things you don't use on a daily basis like extreme spatial awareness and hyper focus . In other words your mind exaggerated your normal perspective. SOOOOOO ! Looking at your paintjob the next day (after your Super Hero Power wore off by the next morning) the orange peel looks less, the job looks smoother.....and let me guess, That giant pterodactyl of an insect that landed in your paint turned out to be a little knat…….(OH SHURE ! I CAN SPELL "PTERODACTYLE"...…...BUT FORGET GNAT STARTS WITH A "G"....just shoot me)…..well on that note. I think I answered your question....maybe...so I'll take me leave. Before I go, is there anything else I can help you with (and don't bring up that rash. I already told see a Dr.) good, well, bye,...da Bat

[Presto51]

Weather permitting.. I'll be most likely in my driveway color sanding and buffing for the next few weekends.. (no idea how long it'll take) so.. consider yourself invited!!

Oh, oh what is this I hear, "Double, double beer and trouble. By the pricking of my thumbs, Some more questions this way comes" ?

Don't forget to ask Jeff and Jeff incorporated about the tips, traps, snares, pitfalls of the wonder world of color sanding and buffing. Like when you look over the edge of the abyss and it looks back. That's a bad, bad scene, which leads to all kinds of making up new crass words, drowning yourself in Really Adult beverages, and then asking how do you guys "blend" a burnt spot, don't ask me how I know this.

You thought you were done with the hard part of a paint job, but in reality it's just getting started. Use caution my forum brother, like the ice on the lake, stay alert and away from the edges it's thin there.

At least we can see how long you can keep the "beginners good luck charm". :rolleyes:

We're all rooting for you good luck.

Ron

[skidd]

Pulled into the sunlight today!! Soooo happy with how this turned out.

https://www.ludicrous-speed.com/zp/cache/Shanes%20Cobra/TheBuild/IMG_20190309_093221_595.jpg

https://www.ludicrous-speed.com/zp/cache/Shanes%20Cobra/TheBuild/IMG_20190309_092806_595.jpg

[FF33rod]

Dayum! good job! I've been watching this thread and you done good, not that I'm an expert, heck I'm not even a beginner when it comes to body work and paint. Anyway, I'm confident you'll approach the remainder in the same informed way and it will get only better..... Steve

[KDubU]

Way to go! Looks damn nice.

[Ducky2009]

Looks Great! You'll always see any imperfections that no one else could/would ever find. I painted mine too. Most people are looking at the Big Picture. Again, LOOKS GREAT!

[Walt]

Great job, you can be proud of it!
Walt

[skidd]

I was wet sanding today in my driveway. Almost every neighbor came out to ask me why I was ruining the paint job!!!
"It was already so shiny!! what are you doing to it!". "Are you going to spray it again now?"
Funny thing is, they're almost right. Not shiny any more. ... yet.
I'll tell ya one thing though... I thought the paint was smooth before (yeah yeah.. some orange peal.. sure) but dayum!! Mirror Smooth now!!
Going to finish up the wet-sanding tomorrow, give her a good wash, and plan to tackle the buffing stage next weekend.

[KDubU]

Yeah the whole wet sanding thing freaks me out a bit. I remember when I first did it after repairing something and thought why am I ruining the paint job??? It does work though. Let’s see some pics when you have cleaned her up!

[skidd]

Holy Schhmoly!! It's turning out every bit as good as I hoped. Just finished the wool stage. When I started this DIY body work, I told myself I would be content with a 10-footer, and happy with a 5. I'm already at a 5-footer. That's an average persons 5-foot ;) With the right light, I can still see some minor wavy-like-orange-peel. But, I have to go looking for it. Think I'ma have a celebration beer before starting the foam stage.

[skidd]

PS.. Holly Crap does black ever show every freaking imperfection!!!!!

[CraigS]

Looking good now. Pls resist the temptation to do just a 'little' more, especially near edges and high spots. If you go through the clear, it will be your worse day in a long time.

[skidd]

Well.. I'm pretty happy with how it came out.
Only the black shows any of the slight ripple/wave.. er.. what ever you would call it.
The rest of the car turned out every bit as good as i would expect from a Garage job.
Managed to NOT burn through anywhere. I was so paranoid about it, I'm betting a Pro would laugh at me and my technique.

https://www.ludicrous-speed.com/zp/cache/Shanes%20Cobra/TheBuild/IMG_20190323_182340_595.jpg

The rear cowl area is where the worst orangepeel was. Almost totally gone now.
https://www.ludicrous-speed.com/zp/cache/Shanes%20Cobra/TheBuild/IMG_20190323_180650_595.jpg

https://www.ludicrous-speed.com/zp/cache/Shanes%20Cobra/TheBuild/IMG_20190323_180819_595.jpg

[Jeff Kleiner]

You didn't burn through? It doesn't matter how you did it that's nuthin' to laugh about---GOOD JOB!

Jeff

[cv2065]

Looks great Skidd. Really a fantastic Job. That silver is incredibly deep.

[BadAsp427]

very nice job... you should have a couple celebratory beers... ;)

[Boydster]

Absolutely beautiful.

[j.miller]

Welcome at my campfire any night pilgrim … swap paint stories...tell some lies....till the wives come home then we blame it on Kleiner. He's always in trouble so it don't much matter. CHEERS...da Bat

[Jeff Kleiner]

....till the wives come home then we blame it on Kleiner. He's always in trouble so it don't much matter. CHEERS...da Bat

No $hit! When she's gone I always put this on before she comes back just as a preemptive measure.

https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20229189_1259642777491761_5502939637932090269_n.jp g?_nc_cat=102&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-2.xx&oh=8e795f4dd7cc086d8305c96864eb9056&oe=5D0F221A

She's made it very clear that not only does Miller not qualify as "supervision" but is actually considered to be "a bad influence"---whatever that means :confused:

O

[Coggin]

Take ur time

[Coggin]

Yes you need to be very smooth

[Coggin]

You need to use nice snooze strokes

[Presto51]

You didn't burn through? It doesn't matter how you did it that's nuthin' to laugh about---GOOD JOB!

Jeff

Yep Jeff is right on the button. Great job

Ron

[Ducky2009]

It's beautiful Skidd. Yea, you don't want to buff through the clear.... ask me how I know. I ended up painting mine twice. You did GREAT!