View Full Version : QA1 on Front Suspension Install
MBB Larry
11-17-2018, 09:37 PM
A week into my build. Tried to install my QA1's inverted to have adjustment knob on top. The bolts would not fit, and upper shock contacted control arm>
97644
Installed with knob on bottom and it fits?? Anyone else have this issue??>>
97645
If you want to mount QA1 Proma Star coil-overs inverted it requires taller spring caps (9018-113) to provide the required spacing. While you're at it make sure to run compression bumpers (BC02) and using 9" springs will make changing them easier. And you should consider changing the spring rate from the FFR supplied -- it's way too stiff.
progmgr1
11-19-2018, 05:01 AM
I got my QA1 shocks and lower rate springs from Dan Ruth and was able to mount them with the adjustment knob on top (as Dan recommended) with no problem. Keith
CVOBill
11-19-2018, 02:02 PM
I had to grind the upper mount to clear the shock, I know yours are already powder coated but unfortunately that's the only way it will work. Also install your bolts from the back to the front. There is not enough room to remove the upper bolts with the radiator installed.
CVOBill, I'm curious now -- what shocks did you use that required modifying the UCA to make them fit?
I installed QA1 Proma Star DD403 double adjustable coil-overs on the front inverted (adjusting knobs at the top). No modifications to the suspension were required, only the longer spring caps to provide clearance at the bottom to keep the springs from touching each other.
CVOBill
11-19-2018, 05:24 PM
Naz, I used QA1 from Dan Ruth. It didn't take much to clear the shocks, but I had to grind it out.
Thanks Bill. Must be FFR manufacturing variances.
CVOBill
11-20-2018, 07:41 AM
Naz, my car is #304. I wonder if it being an early car the created the interference?
Perhaps. Mine was built in the 800's so perhaps there have been some slight dimensional variations between earlier and later production. Anyway, sounds like yours didn't take much to make the QA1's fit.
TDSapp
11-20-2018, 03:06 PM
My Hot Rod is #1006 and I had the same issue as Larry. When I installed the QA1 with single adjustment I had to do them with the adjustment knob at the bottom or the springs would hit with a bump.
I did not know there were different caps that would resolve the issue. I may have to look into buying them soon. I would much rather have the adjustment knob at the top where I can get to it if I need to.
Tim
Mark Reynolds
11-20-2018, 08:06 PM
Other than the fact that FFR shows the shocks installed "body up", wouldn't the best way to install them be "body down" in the less unsprung weight way of thinking?
It's true Mark, that body down does reduce unsprung weight to a degree. However, at a cost of making them harder to adjust. It comes down to what's more important, less unsprung weight or easier adjustments.
HVACMAN
11-20-2018, 10:37 PM
I got my QA1 shocks and lower rate springs from Dan Ruth and was able to mount them with the adjustment knob on top (as Dan recommended) with no problem. Keith
Ditto what Keith said. Mine, from Dan, went in without any problem or modifications.
AJT '33
11-21-2018, 10:54 AM
My Hot Rod is #1006 and I had the same issue as Larry. When I installed the QA1 with single adjustment I had to do them with the adjustment knob at the bottom or the springs would hit with a bump.
I did not know there were different caps that would resolve the issue. I may have to look into buying them soon. I would much rather have the adjustment knob at the top where I can get to it if I need to.
Tim
Hey Tim, could you tell me how long the shocks are extended and compressed? The Komi's I have are 15.5" extended and I am tight under the rear bike fenders (like 3/4" clearance). It was recommended and I was thinking to have them extended by an inch such that I can relieve the spring a bit and allow for a little more travel and would be able to have an extra 1/2"-3/4" clearance between the tire and the fender. I am running Nitto 555 295/40ZR18 tires which are about 27-1/4" in diameter. Since FFR recommends tires no bigger than 25.7" I need to make more room to have no rubs. So by adding a minimum 3/4" to each shock (will do 1" probably) I should have the clearance and the correct look. However if i can get a bigger shock that fits... I may go that route as long as its not too expensive.
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erlihemi
11-22-2018, 01:33 PM
Hey Tim, could you tell me how long the shocks are extended and compressed? The Komi's I have are 15.5" extended and I am tight under the rear bike fenders (like 3/4" clearance). It was recommended and I was thinking to have them extended by an inch such that I can relieve the spring a bit and allow for a little more travel and would be able to have an extra 1/2"-3/4" clearance between the tire and the fender. I am running Nitto 555 295/40ZR18 tires which are about 27-1/4" in diameter. Since FFR recommends tires no bigger than 25.7" I need to make more room to have no rubs. So by adding a minimum 3/4" to each shock (will do 1" probably) I should have the clearance and the correct look. However if i can get a bigger shock that fits... I may go that route as long as its not too expensive.
97876
AJT, I'm not sure if your on the front or rear of the car??
On mine the Koni's matched the dimension in the manual. I think it was 15.5 front and 17.5 rear. The QA1 if I remember correctly would be the 401 front and 601 rear I believe. I found the rear Koni's did not have enough extension on hard cornering and would unload one tire while also being too stiff and forcing the planted tire to hop. I went with DD QA1 and variable rate springs to cover a couple sins. I needed more spring travel on rebound to keep the "hat" and seat loaded, but, still wanted a low ride height to keep geometry correct. The 10" 225/450lb springs allowed the rear to static compress the spring more so in dynamic compression travel I'm running closer to 250/350lb. This all worked for my build. The QA1 will allow more height adjustment for you than the Koni's supplied. If you're not racing the single adjustment is fine and less expensive.
AJT '33
11-22-2018, 03:24 PM
AJT, I'm not sure if your on the front or rear of the car??
On mine the Koni's matched the dimension in the manual. I think it was 15.5 front and 17.5 rear. The QA1 if I remember correctly would be the 401 front and 601 rear I believe. I found the rear Koni's did not have enough extension on hard cornering and would unload one tire while also being too stiff and forcing the planted tire to hop. I went with DD QA1 and variable rate springs to cover a couple sins. I needed more spring travel on rebound to keep the "hat" and seat loaded, but, still wanted a low ride height to keep geometry correct. The 10" 225/450lb springs allowed the rear to static compress the spring more so in dynamic compression travel I'm running closer to 250/350lb. This all worked for my build. The QA1 will allow more height adjustment for you than the Koni's supplied. If you're not racing the single adjustment is fine and less expensive.
My Koni's are all the same length (from FFR) at 15.5", wish I had 17.5 for the rear then I would not have any issues I am sure. I have 300# in the rear and 400# springs in the front which is what FFR recommends. As well I have the 2015 IRS rear end option on mine so I am not sure if that makes a difference or not. Don't intend on racing however we intend on doing a road course near by so maybe the singles will still be fine. I know we will take it to the local drag stirp just for sh!#s and giggles. I appreciate the input and will surely ping you on more input. TY.
What would you think about the QA1-DS701 Shocks for my rear possibly (I have taller tires than normal)? I hope I can use my existing springs if I go in that direction (did you?). TY again.
AJT, I believe you'll find the 400 lb/in front springs way too stiff. I'm on 350# now and the next step down will likely be something less than 300#.
Now I don't have any experience with the IRS version but if I was starting from scratch the first thing I would do is determine the total rear travel before selecting a shock as that will ultimately determine the total shock travel I can select. Next, determine ride height and total travel I need. I know you're not intending to "race" the car but you should still be aware that changing ride height will affect roll center on that IRS (same for the front IFS) which will have an impact on handling.
erlihemi
11-23-2018, 09:35 AM
I keep forgetting some of you have the IRS. That reacts different than the 3 link. I actually still have the original 500# on front, but, I'm heavier also. For general driving the Koni is stiff. You'll need to play around measuring different ride heights and travel before selecting different coil overs. I left the Koni's on until I got in some driving time in and could push the car. The reason I go with double adjustable is I tend to like lighter rebound dampening than the compression. If I was drag racing I would use a completely different set up, but, on this car each corner would be set different. My experience is that FFR isn't that far off on the spring rate, just the Koni's are wrong for this car.
AJT '33
11-23-2018, 10:22 AM
Yesterday I sent a note to Tony Z about the shocks (in light of all the conversation on here) and provided him a bunch of details, he confirmed that I received four front end shocks and is sending the correct longer rear end shocks, mystery solved for now. Looking forward to seeing its stance once the correct ones are installed and feeling the difference. I will definitely keep in mind what you all have brought forward and the suggestions made. Less stupid today than yesterday!!
Thanks again for all your help as it definitely resulted in getting the correct shocks from FFR, they have been great with me in correcting any issues or miscues.
myjones
11-23-2018, 11:21 AM
I keep forgetting some of you have the IRS. That reacts different than the 3 link. I actually still have the original 500# on front, but, I'm heavier also. For general driving the Koni is stiff. You'll need to play around measuring different ride heights and travel before selecting different coil overs. I left the Koni's on until I got in some driving time in and could push the car. The reason I go with double adjustable is I tend to like lighter rebound dampening than the compression. If I was drag racing I would use a completely different set up, but, on this car each corner would be set different. My experience is that FFR isn't that far off on the spring rate, just the Koni's are wrong for this car.
Hey old timer :p
I forget about the IRS guys too because up until the latest version none of them would hold up to what us old timers want to throw at them.
IIRC the IRS set-up isn't a 1<>1 ratio against the spring like the 4 link is so spring rates are apples and oranges. The front of the 33 is also
not 1<>1 because of the upper A-arm pivot. IIRC the spring rate is about 1.6 to 1 on that end. When I softened the front on mine I bought
a 1" longer spring than the FF and that was the perfect length for my 33 and had just enough pre-load to keep it from unseating at full droop.
HTH
7L Hemi 6pack
We finished my QA-1 Install today with the two going on the front. I just got the kit from Innovative about a year ago but everything fit pretty straightforward.
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This is what the QA1 installation looks like with the taller spring caps (9018-113).
myjones
11-24-2018, 12:54 PM
We finished my QA-1 Install today with the two going on the front. I just got the kit from Innovative about a year ago but everything fit pretty straightforward.
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Bill
That's a very tidy looking engine bay, well done.
Dale
Thanks Dale, had some first class craftsmen supporting me. NAZ, mine look like they are touching but there is about 3/16 to 1/4 of an inch gap between the two on the bottom.
TDSapp
11-27-2018, 02:37 PM
98026
This is what the QA1 installation looks like with the taller spring caps (9018-113).
NAZ,
This is what mine looks like directly from Dan Ruth. It looks like taller spring caps but as you can see, they almost touch. I am about to order the other caps that you listed. I will let you know how they turn out. I know the ones I have on there now a MUCH bigger than the ones on the rear.
http://hotrod.sapp-family.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/20170906_191736.jpg
Here is the shock and spring caps for the rear end.
http://hotrod.sapp-family.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/20171007_161404.jpg
AJ,
Here is what I got from Dan Ruth. US601s for the Rear and US403s for the front. I would have to go back through my emails with him to find out what springs I got from him. We talked on the phone for a while about what I was doing with the car. Discussed things like what engine (350 SBC) what transmission (700R4) and what rear end (4 Link). From there he suggested the spring rates based on what he had seen the cars do.
http://hotrod.sapp-family.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/20170829_152829.jpg
So after going to the QA-1 site it looks like I DO have the larger caps for my front shocks. I wonder if something has changed that moved them closer together. The ones I have on the rear shocks look like the ones on the pictures at the QA-1 site.
Looks like you have a higher spring rate (larger wire diameter) that is crowding the limited space. Besides more clearance between the front springs there is a performance advantage to using a lighter spring and more preload. If yours clear under full travel that's all you need. If they rub only at full compression you're probably OK (not ideal but maybe OK) as with stiff springs you're not likely to get full travel anyway. Another option if they rub only at or near full compression is to limit travel using a longer bump stop rubber (or double up on the rubbers) -- again, not likely to see full travel with heavy springs.
But IMO the best way to address this (assuming it's a larger diameter wire causing the clearance issue) is to run lighter weight (smaller wire) springs and if you choose the correct rate you will also get the benefit of smoother ride, better front lateral traction, and improved rear weight transfer. I'm using 350 lb now but that's too stiff. I should be running 300 or even 280 in my case (I have 1191 lbs on the front with me in the car -- my SBC is located as far to the rear as possible and I'm running a 2-sp Glide trans).