351 with Cobra air cleaner...... issue with hood scoop fitment?

[stevant]

97010

Anyone have a 351 with a Cobra air cleaner? Want to confirm that the hood and scoop are going to work. I’m assuming it will but the 351 sits about 1-1/2” higher than a 302.

Thanks,

Steve

[BB767]

You may want to go with solid motor mounts. Drops the engine height about an inch. I was concerned about excess vibration with them but I cannot tell the difference. Easy option for more clearance.

[Avalanche325]

With the stock filter, make sure that the lid is not sitting on the carb vent tubes if they are the flat ones. It makes for some spectacular flooding. You should be OK if they are the angled ones.

Another tip. TO keep the filter from rotating, install one of these gaskets.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mor-97331?seid=srese1&cm_mmc=pla-google-_-shopping-_-srese1-_-moroso&gclid=CjwKCAiAt4rfBRBKEiwAC678KYJS48sxk2AE7rhD8PAk 3cAjfxdFVqQWom7At7Z6hPkXhztHzJ7iqBoCF-YQAvD_BwE

[stevant]

I have an EFI setup, Fitech actually. Car is running great and it’s all mounted. It is angled actually. I’m hoping it will clear as I would like to use the scoop that came with the kit. Modifying the intake would be another choice. Motor mounts are an option as mentioned also. I guess I’ll mark out the scoop hole and see where it contacts. Take out enough so it clears and determine if it will work.

[RR20AC]

Fits well. Before and after pics.

[stevant]

So looks like it clears no problem? I’m still higher than you? Looks great by the way.

[Avalanche325]

I added this above. But here it is again. Those filters tend to rotate. I put one of these on, and it hasn't budged since. It is a rubber gasket with a groove that fits on the air cleaner flange.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/m...BoCF-YQAvD_BwE

[stevant]

Thanks!!

[Arvin]

I have a 351 (408 actually) with FAST EFI with a 3" K&N filter - all fits just fine!

[cv2065]

Is the FItech top end any higher/lower than a traditional carb?

[j.miller]

Only time I have had trouble is with "Air Gap" manifold.

[Jeff Kleiner]

As Jeff Miller says if you're using an Air Gap intake you'll probably have issues with an oval filter touching the hood. I've gotten in 3 or 4 cars with the 351 block/Air Gap/Oval combination and here's what happens:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=97196&d=1541943155

A 14" round filter with a drop base and Extreme top will clear and breathe better than the restrictive oval.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/BdVDKJR8vrp1DqVsHbRgsNZHenxBVfzzY5b2UuUGb0sHT7IC5M Kuke3PeSQJ7MAgT8KVmav4fdO0IhCnwdFhe9HeIUO7Io7qmxVJ 146Qjjk5oZ0Faw5iZdD_TSfhZWBxnjlVwdk3rbRshrTniILulC rOnBQjT7DxhPzRgY0TAEokgM8cMxpMtsNw_WsBBUcTAfs-FIqHZ0YEiYIvFnI=s500-pd-e365-rw-pc0xffffff

Lower mounts will likely result in the pan being below the frame rails.

On a related note, some owners have found that the RPM Air Gap intake creates some drivability issues at low RPMs and changing to the lower profile Performer solved both the hood clearance problem and resulted in a happier engine on the street. Just something to think about...

Jeff

97196

[ThickCobra]

As Jeff Miller says if you're using an Air Gap intake you'll probably have issues with an oval filter touching the hood. I've gotten in 3 or 4 cars with the 351 block/Air Gap/Oval combination and here's what happens:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=97196&d=1541943155

A 14" round filter with a drop base and Extreme top will clear and breathe better than the restrictive oval.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/BdVDKJR8vrp1DqVsHbRgsNZHenxBVfzzY5b2UuUGb0sHT7IC5M Kuke3PeSQJ7MAgT8KVmav4fdO0IhCnwdFhe9HeIUO7Io7qmxVJ 146Qjjk5oZ0Faw5iZdD_TSfhZWBxnjlVwdk3rbRshrTniILulC rOnBQjT7DxhPzRgY0TAEokgM8cMxpMtsNw_WsBBUcTAfs-FIqHZ0YEiYIvFnI=s500-pd-e365-rw-pc0xffffff

Lower mounts will likely result in the pan being below the frame rails.

On a related note, some owners have found that the RPM Air Gap intake creates some drivability issues at low RPMs and changing to the lower profile Performer solved both the hood clearance problem and resulted in a happier engine on the street. Just something to think about...

Jeff

97196

Jeff,

PM'd you.

[ThickCobra]

As Jeff Miller says if you're using an Air Gap intake you'll probably have issues with an oval filter touching the hood. I've gotten in 3 or 4 cars with the 351 block/Air Gap/Oval combination and here's what happens:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=97196&d=1541943155

A 14" round filter with a drop base and Extreme top will clear and breathe better than the restrictive oval.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/BdVDKJR8vrp1DqVsHbRgsNZHenxBVfzzY5b2UuUGb0sHT7IC5M Kuke3PeSQJ7MAgT8KVmav4fdO0IhCnwdFhe9HeIUO7Io7qmxVJ 146Qjjk5oZ0Faw5iZdD_TSfhZWBxnjlVwdk3rbRshrTniILulC rOnBQjT7DxhPzRgY0TAEokgM8cMxpMtsNw_WsBBUcTAfs-FIqHZ0YEiYIvFnI=s500-pd-e365-rw-pc0xffffff

Lower mounts will likely result in the pan being below the frame rails.

On a related note, some owners have found that the RPM Air Gap intake creates some drivability issues at low RPMs and changing to the lower profile Performer solved both the hood clearance problem and resulted in a happier engine on the street. Just something to think about...

Jeff

97196

Does anyone know the part number for the Edelbrock lower profile Performer mentioned here for the 351w? There are several offered by Edelbrock.

[johnnybgoode]

Does anyone know the part number for the Edelbrock lower profile Performer mentioned here for the 351w? There are several offered by Edelbrock.

I run this one. With a filter top oval filter. No clearance issues. Scott

https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/edl-7181/overview/make/ford

97206

[first time builder]

Do a search, and you will see that although those air cleaners look great they rob power. We have a MK 3 with a tall deck 351 (427) and Air gap manifold and have a lot of air cleaner fitment problems. we have a small round unit and under hard launch the cleaner still hits the hood scoop at the rear edge.

[stevant]

Ok, so I have a Weiand Stealth manifold which is a lower profile manifold. I’m hoping it’s lower than the Air Gap. It also angles down which will help with clearance. I don’t want to change my mounts, as I don’t want my pan below the cross member. I mocked up my scoop but I could be off of course but looks like I might make it. What choices do I have if not? Here are some pics....

97264972659726697267

[stevant]

The Weiand Stealth manifold is 4.71” high where the Air Gap is 5.75”. That’s an inch lower. Looks like I should be ok......thoughts?

[Donkeyteeth]

Running a 393w, Edelbrock Victor Jr. intake, Holley Sniper EFI, and the Cobra filter....fits fine for me.


97269

[cv2065]

I know that Blueprint uses the Performer manifold on the FFR version of their 427 that I have coming. I don’t suppose they would use that with the oval cleaner if there were known clearance issues.

[stevant]

I have a Dart block, would that contribute to additional height?

[Jeff Kleiner]

Does anyone know the part number for the Edelbrock lower profile Performer mentioned here for the 351w? There are several offered by Edelbrock.

Jay,
Your current Performer RPM Air Gap #7581 has a carb pad height of 5.75" and RPM range of 1,500-6,500.

The Performer RPM #7181 has a pad height of 4.8" and the same 1,500-6,500 RPM range

The Performer #2181 has a pad height of 4.120" and RPM range of idle to 5,500. Given your intended use of the car, complaints concerning low speed drivability as well as the hood clearance issue I think this is the direction I'd go.

Talk to you soon!

Jeff

[stevant]

Hey Jeff...... do the think the Weiand Stealth at a height of 4.71 should be ok? I need to trim the engine bay lip so the air cleaner does not rub. Intended on only leaving a 5/16” lip around the back anyway.

Partial clearance at the moment: 9728097295972969729797298

[boat737]

My set up is a Dart block 427w SBF, with the Energy Suspensions motor mounts, Edelbrock Performer RPM intake, Holly 750 carburetor, and even though it's snug, no issues with the air cleaner hitting either the body lip, or even the hood with no scoop (drove it that way in gelcoat until it got painted, then the scoop went on.)

As for the power "robbed" with the oval air cleaner, so far I haven't noticed it, but then again, it's a street car and I'm not a trained race car driver. That car is scary quick and wickedly fast, way more acceleration and speed than my abilities can handle. I'm pretty sure I haven't been past half throttle, or into the secondaries, even on the freeway. I'm not going to admit how fast I've had it, suffice it to say, pretty darned fast, and that air cleaner is just fine.

[stevant]

What Im curious about is when I look at so many pics with my setup, the rear part of the air cleaner is sitting below the fiberglass lip of the body. In my case I had to take some out to get clearance. I have a low profile manifold (4.71”), is the Fitech EFI much higher than a carb? My block is sitting in the mounts, oil pan even/level with the bottom of the crossmember. Why does mine seem high? It still looks like it might fit but will not know officially until the hood is actually cut to size.

97307

[FLPBFoot]

I know that Blueprint uses the Performer manifold on the FFR version of their 427 that I have coming. I don’t suppose they would use that with the oval cleaner if there were known clearance issues.

My Blue Print 427 carb I just purchased in August has the Weiand Stealth intake. Jeff's measurement seems it should work.

Steve

[stevant]

It should work as the Stealth manifold is an inch less than the Air Gap and if that just hits, the Weiand should be good. Just want to know about the cut I needed in the fiberglass. Is that normal to fit the air cleaner?

If it hits there how will it ever clear the cutout itself?

[boat737]

What Im curious about is when I look at so many pics with my setup, the rear part of the air cleaner is sitting below the fiberglass lip of the body. In my case I had to take some out to get clearance. I have a low profile manifold (4.71”), is the Fitech EFI much higher than a carb? My block is sitting in the mounts, oil pan even/level with the bottom of the crossmember. Why does mine seem high? It still looks like it might fit but will not know officially until the hood is actually cut to size.

97307

Looking at your hood area lip, and my hood area lip, mine seems shorter. It's hard to tell for sure, but the relief you put in the lip looks about the same as my lip edge all the way across. I didn't trim down that area at all. FFR change the edge there? Not sure what the differences are. (Maybe a good time for the Jeff twins to ring in again...??)

Edit: Just noticed something on your photo. The lip area near the master cylinder access panel is closer together than mine, looks to be almost touching. Do you have the bulb seal and foam strip installed on the frame and panels? Without it the body will probably sit 1/2 inch or so low.

[stevant]

Do you have a spacer on top of your carb? I have a 1” spacer for my air cleaner to sit over my distributor. I have a Flamethrower Petronix Billet with built in ignition. That’s the reason I’m higher due to the spacerr!! It’s needed to clear the distributor. Yours is shorter than mine.

97351

I think????

[boat737]

Do you have a spacer on top of your carb? I have a 1” spacer for my air cleaner to sit over my distributor. I have a Flamethrower Petronix Billet with built in ignition. That’s the reason I’m higher due to the spacerr!! It’s needed to clear the distributor. Yours is shorter than mine.

97351

I think????

I have what appears to be a 7/8" spacer on top of the carb (it measures about .8 inch).

I also measured from the top surface of the boss on the block where the clamp is for the base of the distributor, to the top of my distributor cap (and wires), and that is just about 9 1/2 inches. My air cleaner just touches the top of the dist. cap. (looking at the pictures, looks like mine has a shorter cap, but a longer body, so... who knows.)

[stevant]

What is the model number of your intake manifold?

[boat737]

What is the model number of your intake manifold?

Edelbrock Performer RPM 7181, Dual Plane, Aluminum (from my paperwork)

[stevant]

Jeff or Jeff...... I think I need your advice....

[stevant]

Looking at your hood area lip, and my hood area lip, mine seems shorter. It's hard to tell for sure, but the relief you put in the lip looks about the same as my lip edge all the way across. I didn't trim down that area at all. FFR change the edge there? Not sure what the differences are. (Maybe a good time for the Jeff twins to ring in again...??)

Edit: Just noticed something on your photo. The lip area near the master cylinder access panel is closer together than mine, looks to be almost touching. Do you have the bulb seal and foam strip installed on the frame and panels? Without it the body will probably sit 1/2 inch or so low.

Bulb seal and foam are installed on my frame.......

Let me post exactly what I have so maybe the upper intellects can shed some light on this as I am baffled.

Factory Five MkIV with 351 mount setup
Supplied Motor Mounts
351/427 Dart Block SHP (Told the same external dimensions as all 351 blocks)
Weiand Stealth Intake manifold (Height - front 4.37", rear 5.06")
Fitech EFI 600 (3.5")
Cobra Air Filter Assembly with 1" spacer to clear distributor
97363

It appears I am at least 3/4" higher than all other posted photos...:confused:

Instead of cutting 1" in from the hood scoop line can I cut up to 5/8" if needed? Leaves enough for the lip on the scoop for the rivets. That would be the difference in clearing the air filter assembly if it does hit.

[j.miller]

You can cut it as far as you want as long as you can still get the rivets or #8-32 button heads to hold it on. If you need to go wider I have a mold to make a fiberglass scoop instead of the plastic and I can leave a little extra meat on the bone if ya run out of room. When you talk about the "scoop line" I hope you are not referring to the inner panel of the hood indentation.....cause that don't mean squat for where the scoop goes...da Bat

[stevant]

You can cut it as far as you want as long as you can still get the rivets or #8-32 button heads to hold it on. If you need to go wider I have a mold to make a fiberglass scoop instead of the plastic and I can leave a little extra meat on the bone if ya run out of room. When you talk about the "scoop line" I hope you are not referring to the inner panel of the hood indentation.....cause that don't mean squat for where the scoop goes...da Bat

The "scoop line" is the outside edge of the finished scoop itself. I wanted to measure 5/8" in from there instead of 1" like the manual reads. I appreciate your input, went this far never thinking the scoop was going to be a concern.

I just trying to figure why my engine seems to be higher than most with the same setup...……..what do you think of the 12" x 8-1/4" x 3" air cleaner assemblies? That should clear with no issues if I have to go that route.......right?

[Jeff Kleiner]

Steve,
The one that I showed uses the higher Air Gap manifold but no spacer between the air cleaner and Quick Fuel carb. Although your intake is lower (assuming that the two manufacturers measure them the same which may or may not be the case) the spacer may ultimately account for why your filter assembly seems to be higher. Regarding the scoop opening, we could really head down a rabbit hole on that---suffice to say that I do not follow the manual's recommendation because basically what appears to be center on top often times does not relate well to the center of the relief on the underside; i.e. echoing Miller's comment of "...cause that don't mean squat for where the scoop goes". Here's a bit of discussion on that:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?24417-Hood-Scoop-Hole&highlight=scoop

Jeff

[stevant]

I’m picking up a 12 x 8-1/4 x 3 filter. It will clear the distributor, and I could bring my spacer from 1” to 1/4”. I’ll still be a little higher but the width should clear the side as I’ll be about 5/8 less on both sides. The extra height, which is minimal will go into the scoop......... that’s my plan at least, hope it works!!

[RRussellTx]

Jay,
Your current Performer RPM Air Gap #7581 has a carb pad height of 5.75" and RPM range of 1,500-6,500.

The Performer RPM #7181 has a pad height of 4.8" and the same 1,500-6,500 RPM range

The Performer #2181 has a pad height of 4.120" and RPM range of idle to 5,500. Given your intended use of the car, complaints concerning low speed drivability as well as the hood clearance issue I think this is the direction I'd go.

Talk to you soon!

Jeff


Jeff - You are THE MAN!!

I have the same setup as Jay with a very tight fit under the Hood and the Body. I also had the really severe bucking at low RPM's with the 7581 and the Holley EFI.
I swapped out the 7581 for the 2181 plus a 1" spacer to get over the top of the distributor and everything is soooo much better.

The car will now cruise along at 5 mph/900 RPM without touching the gas with only very mild surges. Before I would need to speed up and coast to go that slow.
I also don't notice any difference in the top end as the tires still give well before the HP does.

There will be a few dozen tokens of my appreciation in the trunk when my car comes to you for paint.

Thanks!
Richard

Before
101341
101342
After
101339
101340

[erstanl]

As Jeff Miller says if you're using an Air Gap intake you'll probably have issues with an oval filter touching the hood. I've gotten in 3 or 4 cars with the 351 block/Air Gap/Oval combination and here's what happens:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=97196&d=1541943155

A 14" round filter with a drop base and Extreme top will clear and breathe better than the restrictive oval.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/BdVDKJR8vrp1DqVsHbRgsNZHenxBVfzzY5b2UuUGb0sHT7IC5M Kuke3PeSQJ7MAgT8KVmav4fdO0IhCnwdFhe9HeIUO7Io7qmxVJ 146Qjjk5oZ0Faw5iZdD_TSfhZWBxnjlVwdk3rbRshrTniILulC rOnBQjT7DxhPzRgY0TAEokgM8cMxpMtsNw_WsBBUcTAfs-FIqHZ0YEiYIvFnI=s500-pd-e365-rw-pc0xffffff

Lower mounts will likely result in the pan being below the frame rails.

On a related note, some owners have found that the RPM Air Gap intake creates some drivability issues at low RPMs and changing to the lower profile Performer solved both the hood clearance problem and resulted in a happier engine on the street. Just something to think about...

Jeff

97196

I like this option. I have a 351 with a performer intake and a Holley Sniper. What size element would work? 2" or 3"?

[FLPBFoot]

124215

3 inch