View Full Version : Should I buy a used gen 2 coyote or a new one? OR just fork it out for a gen 3?
Bayfunktionkev
10-24-2018, 02:43 PM
I'm in the market for coyote but with a budget or I should probably say trying to spend wisely since holidays are coming up and that's making it hard for me trying to decide what I should do.
option A - buy a used gen 2 "30k miles - 50k miles engine" and purchase all the rest of the stuff needed to get the car running in go kart right away.
option B - buy a new gen 2 for not that much more than used one like $1500 or so more and buy more parts as I go as I probably wont be able to afford everything right now with holidays coming in but for sure Ill be able to get it running within the next month or so.
OR just fork it out and get a new gen 3 and let it sit pretty in my garage until I get more parts as time goes. It shouldn't be too long but will for sure be a little longer to get to ko kart than both option A and B.
I already have a brand new tko600 setup and everything needed for it to mount to the motor.
Thanks everyone! I appreciate all advice in advance good and bad. lol
From where I sit, it depends. How much do you know about the used engine? A friend bought a used LS and had to rebuild the whole thing down to pistons and rings. If you can learn about how it was used and determine it's solid, you can certainly save some money going that way. If you buy new, you obviously know what you're getting. I have a gen 2 coyote and am happy with it. Gen 2 or gen 3 is probably personal choice.
BEAR-AvHistory
10-24-2018, 03:58 PM
New whatever 2 or 3
phileas_fogg
10-24-2018, 04:00 PM
I'm sure edwardb will chime in, as he's installed the Gen 2 in a roadster and is currently installing a Gen 3 in his coupe build. Until he does, take a look at his coupe build log https://www.ffcars.com/forums/21-ffr-type-65-coupe/619602-edwardb-s-gen-3-type-65-coyote-coupe-59-build.html starting around Post #170. You'll note that currently there is no off-the-shelf oil pan/pickup combination that will keep the pan above the frame rails. Also, take note of the dual mass flywheel; it wasn't compatible with his T56 transmission.
John
JoeAIII
10-24-2018, 04:13 PM
I faced the same decision and determines the warranty on the crate engine was worth the expense.
cv2065
10-24-2018, 04:49 PM
Always suspect of a used engine. I'd go for the 'tweener'....
edwardb
10-24-2018, 05:57 PM
I'm sure edwardb will chime in, as he's installed the Gen 2 in a roadster and is currently installing a Gen 3 in his coupe build. Until he does, take a look at his coupe build log https://www.ffcars.com/forums/21-ffr-type-65-coupe/619602-edwardb-s-gen-3-type-65-coyote-coupe-59-build.html starting around Post #170. You'll note that currently there is no off-the-shelf oil pan/pickup combination that will keep the pan above the frame rails. Also, take note of the dual mass flywheel; it wasn't compatible with his T56 transmission.
John
For the Gen 3, that summarizes the differences I'm uncovered so far. Just to explain a little further (also described in the Coupe build thread) the usual Moroso oil pan fits fine. It's the required matching lower profile Moroso pickup that isn't compatible with the GT350 style oil pump in the Gen 3. I'm making progress with a custom solution. But Moroso is aware of the difference and is promising a revised part. Modular Motorsports, who makes a sort of compatible pickup told another forum member they would make a tube that would fit if requested. Both solutions are late for me, but I'm confident will be available in the future. The dual mass flywheel isn't compatible with my T-56/bell housing setup, and also the usual TKO/bell housing setup. The solution is a $200 new flywheel and I'm hoping the dual mass one off the crate engine is worth that much or more through eBay or Craigslist. It's a $400+ part. The good news is the reviews of the Gen 3 Coyote have been extremely positive. Although Ford rates it at 460 HP, all indications are that's quite underrated. Appears to be a pretty big step up from the Gen 2, hopefully (at least in my case :)) a good decision.
I've said this before, but will say again. Holding out the new Gen 2 as a solution isn't going to be out there forever. They're not being manufactured any longer and Ford Performance forecast and warehoused about a one year supply. That was just under a year ago. Don't know how many they have left, but the supply is definitely limited.
Brian76
10-24-2018, 07:04 PM
I've said this before, but will say again. Holding out the new Gen 2 as a solution isn't going to be out there forever. They're not being manufactured any longer and Ford Performance forecast and warehoused about a one year supply. That was just under a year ago. Don't know how many they have left, but the supply is definitely limited.
8 month supply as of last week when I spoke to Ford Performance...
JohnK
10-24-2018, 08:04 PM
JFYI - I called Mike Forte today to order an IRS diff and knuckle kit, and we talked briefly about the gen 3 Coyote. He indicated that he was expecting delivery of a first batch of new pickups from Moroso for the gen 3 coyote this week (I believe).
Clover
10-24-2018, 08:11 PM
I have decided to spend the extra money on a gen 3 based off what I have seen from the Mustang guys who love the new gen 3 Coyotes. AmricanMuscle posted a video on YouTube of a new mustang with a cold air intake, exhaust, tune, and e85 make over 509RWHP, which I assume means 565-575 HP at the crank. I think without the e85 they were still around 475 RWHP. Plus they are able to rev the engine out a bit more with a higher redline. For me, that sounds like a nice uptick over the gen 2 numbers I see and is worth the money. However, I know for a lot of people, that extra power won't be used or needed.
What are your plans for the car? If you are not planning on putting a ton of miles on it or you don't plan to ever race it, I could see the gen 2 making more sense for you. Nothing wrong with the gen 2 Coyote, it is a great motor that I am sure you would be happy with if you do end up going that way.
If money truly matters and willing to consider used then look at gen 1 f150 version. Huge savings and minor differences.
edwardb
10-24-2018, 11:06 PM
8 month supply as of last week when I spoke to Ford Performance...
Interesting. Apparently haven't sold as many Gen 2's as they thought they would. But that's good for those that are on the bubble for the Gen 3. Plus they're cheaper.
JFYI - I called Mike Forte today to order an IRS diff and knuckle kit, and we talked briefly about the gen 3 Coyote. He indicated that he was expecting delivery of a first batch of new pickups from Moroso for the gen 3 coyote this week (I believe).
Hmmm... Just a couple weeks ago Moroso told me they had no idea when they would have the new pickup version available. Something changed awfully fast or...
Dave Howard
10-25-2018, 05:00 AM
To the original question...Option B is probably your most economical, safest, easiest to install option. There's oodles of power and the install is easy and straight forward. Follow the FFR and Ford Racing instructions.
CraigS
10-25-2018, 05:59 AM
You might want to look at warranties on all 3 options. Depending how fast your build will go, you don't want to be out of warranty when you finally start driving it.
BEAR-AvHistory
10-25-2018, 08:38 AM
Interesting. Apparently haven't sold as many Gen 2's as they thought they would. But that's good for those that are on the bubble for the Gen 3. Plus they're cheaper.
Hmmm... Just a couple weeks ago Moroso told me they had no idea when they would have the new pickup version available. Something changed awfully fast or...
What is the price spread between them?
edwardb
10-25-2018, 09:41 AM
What is the price spread between them?
Street prices vary for each of course. But the Gen 3 crate Coyote plus 2018 control pack is being priced $1400 - 1500 more than the Gen 2. Retail price difference for the two is just over $1900. Gen 2's are available with immediate shipping. Gen 3 supplies are still apparently limited.