TONKS 347 the Baker's Build

[doddmoore]

Hey there folks. Well, the car came in, and among all of the smiles and handshakes and well wishes the reality never really sank in, but it has now. I have A LOT of work to do, but I am looking forward to every bit. I'm pretty good at making mistakes, but I always own them, so I am pretty sure this will be no different. What I am hoping to do is to give some confidence to guys like me, guys who have NOT worked on cars much but who love them. I didn't grow up working on cars because my dad wasn't a car guy, but I have always loved them. There are probably plenty of guys who don't know the difference between a tie rod and a ball joint, and if so I hope they can read about all the mistakes I'm going to make and know that EVEN THEY can build their dream car. That is of course if I actually succeed. Time will tell.
I own a couple of bakeries, hence The Baker's Build. AND I like alliteration.

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I did not chronicle my Body Buck build or my Chassis Dolly, but I can tell you I went with the body buck template from the manual, and added a shelf beneath it. My space is fairly small and I thought that would help with storage. Boy am I glad I did that. You can see everything except my wheels and seats fit on the buck, so that is great help with my space. I even have my Wilwoods on there on the other side. I am a talker so expect my posts to be long. Sorry in advance.
Coming soon...INVENTORY! I know most guys hate it, but I am a lover of spreadsheets so I am actually looking forward to it. Thanks for all the support so far, I am over the moon.

[cv2065]

Congrats! Looks like a pretty nice work space to me. Inventory can get a bit tedious with all of the nuts, bolts and other small doodads, but you'll certainly get intimate with the car. I just started mine a couple weeks back as well. Look forward to your build!

[gkp200]

Congrats. I'm still waiting for my delivery. What was your kit completion date (mine is 8/18), so I know approximately when to expect the truck?

Best of luck with the build. I'm in the same boat with the lack of experience under the hood. I'm counting on lots of help from others that are also struggling/struggled to put one together. I look forward to your posts (hoping for minimal mistakes).

Gary

[Yama-Bro]

Congrats! It looks like you have a great area to work. Plenty of room and light. Enjoy the ride!

[doddmoore]

Congrats. I'm still waiting for my delivery. What was your kit completion date (mine is 8/18), so I know approximately when to expect the truck?

Best of luck with the build. I'm in the same boat with the lack of experience under the hood. I'm counting on lots of help from others that are also struggling/struggled to put one together. I look forward to your posts (hoping for minimal mistakes).

Gary
My completion date was July 7, and my delivery date was August 7, so if you are using Stewart transportation I would expect a one month lead time until delivery.

[doddmoore]

Congrats! It looks like you have a great area to work. Plenty of room and light. Enjoy the ride!

Thanks Yama! One odd question, For my build thread do I just continue to reply to these messages or is there a way I post a new message to the same thread? I’m not very good with the forum yet.

[doddmoore]

INVENTORY

All I can say is you eat an elephant one bite at a time. You can try to hurry it, but in the end you just won't make it. PLUS, I keep reminding myself that I am building a car that I will drive and I don't want to die. So I'm taking my time with the inventory. I open each box, which usually has a crazy mix of things: parts, hardware, gas cap, whatever. Boxes 1 and 2 are below
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Like I said, I don't want to die, so I am laying out the parts, counting, measuring, using my Thread Checker to double check.
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Each part is wrapped in really nice heavy paper. I read on another thread that someone saved their paper to use on the aluminum panels to make a template for the heat suppression sheets or whatever you may put on the panels. I am saving the paper then, especially the large sheets, to use for just that. I can lay them against the panels, mark, and use to cut out my Thermo Tec or whatever I get.
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I'm at the pace of about a box a day, that is all the time I have right now, but even that is fun. I'm also building a spreadsheet of each part and what box it is in. Part of me wants to take a photo of each part (yes I am that kind of guy) so I am contemplating that. I wouldn't mind having a visual inventory of each part and what it looks like. Like I said, that's just the kind of guy I am. I won't post every box, but just wanted to give the people who haven't done it an idea of what to expect.
Oh one last thing, I printed my own copy of the manual, but a printed copy came with it. I like mine more, because it is single sided and in color, but just letting you know you don't have to go to that expense if you wnat a printed copy, they include one.

[Jazzman]

Looks like you are off to a great start. Solid inventory really helps. Spreadsheets are a great help too (I did at least three of them in my build for various purposes.)

I definitely approve your transmission selection. Liberty gears will build a good one for you. I got the same type of package from a local provider. You will be happy with it. Do you plan to use the stock shiftier location? If so you are good to go. If you want to have the forward location for your shifter, you might want to talk to Liberty about putting in the forward control kit for you when they do the other mods. They will be into it already at that point.

Smart to save the paper. It does come in handy. If you have the room, break down a few of the boxes and save them too. The cardboard can come in handy too!

Take lots of photos!! They are helpful for your own reference, good for your build thread, and fun to go back and look at after your car is done.

Now what are you doing here reading my gibberish? Go back and inventory!!! :cool:

[doddmoore]

Do you plan to use the stock shiftier location? If so you are good to go. :cool:

I'm pretty sure yes. There is just something about that bent shifter that I like. I'm FAR from a purist, and can't stand them usually, but that shifter calls to me.

[doddmoore]

I'm a pretty visual guy. When we hire someone at the bakery we give them a learning style questionnaire to see how they best learn. I am mostly auditory, I learn through hearing, but also very visual. So for me to best envision my car I had a friend do some photoshopping on one of the photos on the website.
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It's not 100% but it is really close. The car will be dark emerald with silver fender stripes. (Those stripes are not just because they are cool, they are my homage to an amazing guy with a BEAST of a FF Cobra, slpro1207)
Now back to inventory! And Spreadsheets! ;)

[doddmoore]

Boxes 6 through 13. We are really getting into some recognizable parts now. The windshield though was what made me happiest I have to say. It’s one of the parts that is going to go on near the end of the build, and it’s like getting a glimpse of your destination when you begin a long journey. Seeing the windshield, and knowing from all of you how difficult it is going to be to install, really made me feel good. I’ve also started a spreadsheet of parts and numbers and locations. It will be easier to find something if I can search a spreadsheet than looking through that manifest included with the kit.

Box 14, power steering option. I heard it time and time again, go with the power steering. Power brakes are not really needed from what I have read. A hydraulic clutch is nice but again not a necessity. But the power steering, that is a near necessity.

So that brings us to…(insert Jaws theme)…BOX 15, THE WIRING HARNESS!! Gasp!
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I am NOT electronically inclined, and the wiring scares the bejeezus out of me. But I have to say I took one look at this Ron Francis harness and my fears just melted away. A bit. It looks like a really well made harness, and it is so EASY to follow. Just looking at the picture above you can see the wiring is already divided up to where it should go and clearly labelled. So after all my worry, and all the people here telling me it wasn’t nearly as big a deal as I thought, turns out you were right all along. I’m doing this to learn after all, and this is now something I am looking forward to learning.

[TexasAviator]

You and I have talked on Facebook quite a bit on messenger. I look forward to following a fellow 347 build. There is just something about a stroked lightweight power plant and these cars. Goodluck brother, I really look forward to your build. You have a great mix of drivetrain and parts to make a great build.

Brandon

[Jazzman]

So for me to best envision my car I had a friend do some photoshopping on one of the photos on the website.
91108
It's not 100% but it is really close. The car will be dark emerald with silver fender stripes. (Those stripes are not just because they are cool, they are my homage to an amazing guy with a BEAST of a FF Cobra, slpro1207)
Now back to inventory! And Spreadsheets! ;)

I love the color combo!! I really never considered any greens, but I love a nice emerald metallic or pearl. Those stripes are really cool looking. Different from everyone else. You just know I am going to support that!!:cool:

[Straversi]

91108
It's not 100% but it is really close. The car will be dark emerald with silver fender stripes. (Those stripes are not just because they are cool, they are my homage to an amazing guy with a BEAST of a FF Cobra, slpro1207) ;)

Welcome to the party. Thanks for sharing you’re build with us. Love the paint scheme. My first car was a Datsun 510 so I grew up with the BRE Datsun race teams on the 70’s. I have a thing for those fender stripes. And you can never argue with green on a roadster. Keep plugging along.
-Steve

[doddmoore]

Welcome to the party. Thanks for sharing you’re build with us. Love the paint scheme. My first car was a Datsun 510 so I grew up with the BRE Datsun race teams on the 70’s. I have a thing for those fender stripes. And you can never argue with green on a roadster. Keep plugging along.
-Steve

Thanks Steve. Having a blast so far!

[doddmoore]

I am still working on the inventory, just two boxes away, but I had a friend who could help me today so I decided to take the body off and set it on the buck. We started by taking off the doors, hood, and trunk. The hood wasn't attached but the doors and trunk were. The manual says they are attached with 5/8ths buts but mine were 9/16ths. I unbolted them from the chassis and set them aside. The manual just says to unbolt the quickjacks, but there are other attachments. There were four bolts at the back that were 1/2" so we took them off next and put them on a board.
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I have no idea if I will ever need them again or if it will matter which was which, but I did this anyway just in case.
I saw Edd China do this on Wheeler Dealers, my all time favorite show, and so I decided to keep things organized as well. I'm a "better safe than sorry" kind of guy I guess. After taking off all four bolts things started falling out from under the rear bumper. Come to find out there are spacers under there as well. When I looked underneath I saw this 91509
Again, not knowing if I will need these ever again at this point I saved them
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Finally I realized I should look more carefully under the car to make sure ALL of the attachment points are located. Two screws attached each side under the body. 91511
and in addition to the quickjacks up front there is a brace attached to the body.
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Not knowing what it was or if I needed it later, but not wanting it to scratch up my powder coating I took it off and labeled it too.
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Confident that the body was no longer attached to the frame we went to remove it. The body kind of scoops underneath the frame on the sides and we could get one side off but when we went to lift the front and back the side would drop down and catch under the frame again. We took two clamps and pulled the body away from the frame, clamping the frame so the body couldn't scoot back underneath and get locked again.
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We were then able to lift the body and get it on the buck.
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It wasn't difficult in the whole, but I made it as difficult as possible apparently. Tomorrow I will be by myself again so I can finish the inventory and start marking and labeling the aluminum panels. I have ordered a pair of Cleco pliers and a bag of 1/8' clecos. Looking forward to getting all the panels labeled and drilled. Should it be this fun already?

[edwardb]

Welcome to the madness! Just to confirm, unless you're planning on making changes, everything used to attach the body to the frame from the factory is intended for use later. Those aren't shipping parts. Including the split spacers, bolts, the brackets on the front, etc. In fact the location and order of the split spacers on the four corners is pretty important. Hopefully you kept them together and in order.

Regarding body on/off, to remove: Pull the sides out so the wraparound under the doors clears from underneath, lift the back over the trunk sides while still holding the sides apart so they clear the door hinge area. Once the back and sides are clear (back held high) slide the whole body forward and unhook from the nose. Then it will lift the rest of the way off. To install, same idea in reverse. Hook nose over first, pulls sides apart, drop over the back.

Hope that helps. Have fun and good luck!

[doddmoore]

I had a feeling I would need those parts. Yes, everything is kept, labeled, and organized. It’s a win!

[Jeff Kleiner]

I've missed this until now but will start following along on your journey. Enjoy it and good luck :)

Jeff

[doddmoore]

I've missed this until now but will start following along on your journey. Enjoy it and good luck :)

Jeff

I'm a bit starstruck you guys. Jazzman, Jeff Kleiner, and EdwardB. Holy smokes. I am actually thinking of bringing my car to you Jeff to paint, and then driving it back to MS when it is all done. I'm doing this to learn so I kind of want to do the body work myself, but I also want it to look great, so I don't want to do the bodywork myself. I'll figure it out.

[Jazzman]

I'm a bit starstruck you guys. Jazzman, Jeff Kleiner, and EdwardB. Holy smokes. I am actually thinking of bringing my car to you Jeff to paint, and then driving it back to MS when it is all done. I'm doing this to learn so I kind of want to do the body work myself, but I also want it to look great, so I don't want to do the bodywork myself. I'll figure it out.

You are allowed to be starstruck by Jeff Kleiner and EdwardB. I know I was!! But there really is no need to be. They are two of the nicest, most helpful, most giving people that you will ever have the pleasure of meeting. Jeff even worked on my car at the Huntington Beach Cruise in this year! It was both embarrassing and thrilling all at once!! They are both as friendly and "real" as they can be. I truly feel like these two men have been my guardian angels through my build. Each of them have both publicly and privately encouraged and corrected my work. It was greatly appreciated and an example of how I will try, in my own limited way, to pay that gift forward. But there is absolutely no need to put me anywhere near their stratospheric level! It's going to take me a decade to get to know even 20% of what these guys know. But I am working on it!! :cool:

I have seen some of Jeff Kleiner's work, and I know you would be very pleased with the result. I might have taken my car to him if I was not 2/3 of the way across the country from him!

[Jazzman]

This is just a bit early for you, but I wanted to get it in your thread while I am thinking about it. The footbox on these cars is quite tight. I am only 5'9", but even after moving the seats back and customizing them, I still have to push the gas pedal with my foot laid sideways on the floor. Before you get to the point of installing your DS footbox panel on the engine side, do some research on the forums about a modification to the inboard footbox panel. It changes the location of the corner that your knee will lean against and will provide more room to the right of the gas pedal for your foot. I can't find the thread right now, but if I do, I will add it to this post. Contact 2BKing about this. I think he was the one who originated the modification.

[PeteMeindl]

doddmoore - I'm enjoying your build thread and it's great prep for me (given I'm a real beginner) as i wait for the arrival of my car. I feel i'm learning a lot from you experiences that'll help me out - thanks a lot for sharing! Even seeing little things like how you are putting bolts in a labeled board and recording their order while taking off the body. Thanks!
pete

[doddmoore]

Thanks Pete! I guess my slogan is “if I can do it, anyone can.“ Of course I haven’t done it yet, but I am in the process. I love these cars and automotive engineering in general. But life gets in the way of learning things you are interested in sometimes. I waited too long to correct that. I know there have got to be guys like me out there who wish they could change their own spark plugs or brakes or do a transmission flush. I think we all can, but no one has shown us how. That’s why am so grateful to the guys on this forum for showing me how. I’m hoping that other Noobs can learn along with me. Maybe that should be my slogan “the build thread for Noobs by a Noob.”

[doddmoore]

I'm done with the inventory and getting ready to take the panels off. My panels are not very well put on to be honest. They are on, but not even and will require quite a bit of movement to get them in the right spot. That said, I know we are supposed to take them off completely and then put them back on, and now I see why. I started by taking WAY TOO MANY PICTURES, and then labeling each picture with the aluminum panel name and number from the manifest. I also drew with a sharpie on each panel where it met another panel or the frame. In addition I wrote "O" or "U" on all seams where two panels met. The O stands for Over and the U for Under, so I will know when I am putting it back on which goes over which. If there was ever a question from the angle of the photo which panel went on top of which, I put my finger on the over panel for the picture. Hopefully when it comes time to put them back on all this work will be worth it. I am betting it will.

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You can't tell much from this picture, but I am just giving you an idea of the pictures I took. I took in total 52 pictures of seams. Under the car, inside each footbox, etc.

91651

Here I am showing my future self which panel went on top of which.

Also my clecos came in. I can DEFINITELY see the reason you guys use these. Imagine riveting a panel in only to find you have to take it out again. Ugh. Thankfully I stand on the shoulders of giants so I can see what some others couldn't. No drilling out rivets for this guy. (I hope)

I'm taking almost the whole week off from work this coming week to work on the car, I can't do too much because my backorder list includes upper control arms and my gas tank, but there is still TONS I can get done waiting for those. The plan is to get my panels drilled and deburred, and clecoed into place. I still haven't wired my brakes yet. (safety wire) I also emailed FF about what I was missing from the kit that was marked as included. Not too much, but a few items. It's to be expected I'm sure with this many parts.

[doddmoore]

My FIRST stall.

I have not received my front control arms, they are on my backorder list, but I wanted to get something done today since I had the time. The PLAN was to put the rear brakes on the rear axle and install the axle. I had a friend that could help later in the day. I read through the manual as well as a couple of build threads and thought I had a handle on it. I removed the diff cover and the RTV, and went to remove the 8mm bolt that holds the retaining pin.
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(NOT my image, just using it to show you the bolt)

It won't budge. I used a cheater bar to get more leverage and felt the wrench move a bit, but it wasn't the bolt moving, but *almost* rounding. If I had tried again it would have stripped for sure. I am going to put some type of penetrating fluid on it tomorrow or even use heat to get it to break free. I don't want to mess this part up. I know I can order another bolt but I don't want to damage the threads. Would penetrating fluid or heat be best, or am I just doing something wrong?

[Jeff Kleiner]

If it was assembled using a thread locking compound on the pin heat will be most effective.

Jeff

[doddmoore]

*UTTER FAILURE*

I think I mentioned earlier that I was having trouble with the 8mm bolt that held in the retaining pin on my Moser rear axle. I emailed Moser as well and they confirmed it was installed with a thread locker. They recommended a penetrating fluid and an impact wrench. Not only did that not work the bolt is now rounded 92403 and I don't have the faintest idea how to remove it. A mechanic friend mentioned hammering a smaller 5/16 socket on it so that was also attempted with no success. I have already ordered a new bolt so that part is done, but I do not know what to do from here.

[malloy]

propane torch and get it hot. use an ez-out socket and it will come out. they are designed to bite in as you turn anti-clockwise. if you have air tools notch it with a cut-off wheel then blip it with an air chisel. I don;t recommend the latter if you never did it before. best of luck. just remember heat is the key here as it looses the thread-locker. if moser used red then you must heat the hardware to remove it.

[BadAsp427]

I'm not sure if you have room for it in there, but I have one of these Gator Grip sockets and it works pretty good for things like this. I would say, use the heat as suggested and this tool together and you should get it out of there. (if it will fit) CLICK HERE (https://www.lowes.com/pd/Gator-Grip-SocketStandard-SAE-and-Metric-Combination-3-8-in-Drive-6-point-Socket-Set/999949198?cm_mmc=SCE_PLA-_-ToolsAndHardware-_-MechanicsTools-_-999949198:Gator-Grip&CAWELAID=&kpid=999949198&CAGPSPN=pla&store_code=2948&k_clickID=44580ae8-ab37-4993-8c48-26179da35344&gclid=CjwKCAjw8ajcBRBSEiwAsSky_Rl5qix2BftBsTgs8sJM Iy00sL6cXVHP1qf07Yc__Gr6W3C1eIBKsRoCypIQAvD_BwE)

[cv2065]

I've tack welded a nut onto another stripped nut before so that I could get a wrench on it. Some have had luck with JB weld as well, but not sure how it would react with heat.

[Fixit]

(This is what Malloy was mentioning)
propane torch and get it hot. use an ez-out socket and it will come out. they are designed to bite in as you turn anti-clockwise.
These things have saved my butt more than once (usually on stuff that's rusted beyond recognition, but...)
Damaged Bolt Extractors (https://www.sears.com/craftsman-10-pc-damaged-bolt-nut-remover-set-low/p-00952166000P?sid=IDx01192011x202447059&gclid=CjwKCAjwt7PcBRBbEiwAfwfVGBhlIWMhjuzNyjAd3Jtp l2BuNWD3sOj6eyhpZ8JiwA2fZQUwQSfYEBoCPooQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds&dclid=CPKh4Ljdnt0CFVNsAQodS-oHEQ)

The bolt is already Fubar'd, so you can't do anymore damage. These sockets are cut with a LH spiral that bites harder the more effort applied.
As said, you'll need to use heat to break the loctite, and it helps by expanding the metal.

** Before using the above**
I don't know what clearance is available in there, but maybe... That looks like a 3/8" or 10mm.
Get a 6-point impact socket - either SAE or Metric and hammer that on. They're a bit beefier, but it might not fit in there.
If you can apply torque and smack it at the same time all the better.

If this fails, the next steps are pretty drastic. The bolt will come out, but I don't know your skill-set or tool kit!

[doddmoore]

No. Better. Feeling...than seeing that bolt start to move. I used the bolt extractor socket rated for my impact wrench, but I didn't need the impact wrench. Once I could get a grip on it it finally started to move. No heat was needed but I had sprayed some penetrating fluid in it yesterday so that possibly could have helped. Here it is along with the U-joint socket I used 92646
It is out which is all I care about, and the new one should be in any day now. I do have a question about what looks like some debris or dirt in the diff here 92647 If you look down in there you can see something. I didn't want to try and brush it out without checking on the best way to do that. Compressed air? Lint rag?
So now that I have this beautiful spot where that bolt USED to be, and I am ready to keep moving. ALSO a big box came in today from Factory Five, but I haven't opened it yet. It may be some or most or all of my backorder stuff. I'll let you know tomorrow. In the meantime I'm going to dream about this gorgeous sight 92648

[Fixit]

92657

That's Great!!
I'd get a small "magnet on a stick" and probe around in there - it'll pick up any metal shards. Then (staying away from the clutch pack) flush it out with some BrakeKleen or carb spray. Wipe it out with a lint-free rag and you're good to go.

[doddmoore]

A bit more progress today.
I started to install my rotors and get them torqued down and wired. I noticed the torque specs were in INCH pounds not FOOT pounds, and I noticed it just in time. Sometimes you skip over things like that. Once I adjusted that I put tape on the rotor to make sure I was tightening in a star pattern.
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I've been working on my safety wiring. It started out pretty mediocre if I'm being nice to myself, but after redoing it again and again I finally got them to look like this.
92699 So I figured it was good enough to do the whole thing. After that I opened the BIG NEW BOX that came from Factory Five and found my lower control arms among other things. I can finally get back to following the order that things are supposed to be done in. So I put one control arm on, and the manual says the rear bushing is large so they include a washer to act as a spacer for the front, but I found that I needed a spacer on both the front AND the rear bushings. I wanted to see if that was OK before I torque everything down to spec. It fits perfectly with the spacer so it seems like a win, but it never hurts to check twice. Here are my spacers
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Does that look alright to you guys? I didn't put it in but I set it in place and the driver's side doesn't seem to need the rear spacer, just this one. When the passenger side was done it looked like this
92702 If that looks good I will torque it down tomorrow. I remember one of the guys asking what the best part of the process was before I started my build. So far it seems like every part is great. The learning, (I now know what a pinion shaft locking bolt is) the skill growth, the people even. It's the whole dream come true thing.

[doddmoore]

I attached my passenger side lower control arm, and as the manual said there was a good bit of room between the bushing and the mount. I used a washer included for spacing on both the front bushing and the rear bushing, but THEN I go to mount the driver's side and no doing. There are several things at issue.
1. There are two burrs left over from the drilling that are now powder coated, and they are big enough to keep the front bushing from sitting in the mount
92748
I have not put a measuring tape to this mount, but from what I saw I think there will be JUST enough room for it to fit but only if I can grind these down. Not happy about that but I guess you do what you have to. Even if I grind them down the bushing MAY not fit. I will put a measuring tape on it tomorrow and see what I am dealing with to be precise.
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I asked on facebook and one of the guys said whatever I did to the passenger side as far as using the spacers (for me they are both on the front of each bushing)
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then I needed to do the exact mirror image of that on the driver's side. That won't be possible as things are now, BOTH spacers provided will need to be used for the rear bushing on the driver's side. I have room to the front and back on that one bushing.
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IF I can get the burrs ground down, there is no way the spacer is going to fit on that front bushing. No way.
How important is it that the spacers are mirrored on each side?

[edwardb]

First, knock those burrs off however necessary. File, Dremel, die grinder, whatever. Those parts are CNC plasma or laser cut, not sure which, not drilled. That's just some slag left over from the process. Agree probably shouldn't be there, but really no big deal. Just get that cleaned up.

Agree it's technically best if spacers are the same on both sides, but I wouldn't be too worried if they're not. I'd suggest a sanity check and make sure both LCA's are the same width at the bushings. I've had them be slightly different, and they can be tweaked a bit if necessary. The tabs on the frame can also be tweaked slightly if needed. But in the end, get the spacers installed as necessary to get everything to fit. Whatever minor different there might be from side to side will be compensated for when the front end is aligned.

[Fixit]

92780

Don't get all "knicker twisted" about this stuff... any discrepancies side-to-side can (and will) be taken care of in the final alignment.

(One of the things I've noticed about some of the threads here is that the builders are expecting Swiss-watch/robotic/CAD/.001 tolerances on some of these parts. Ain't gonna happen. It's a bunch of steel that's clamped in a jig, and hand welded. Things move, heat distorts, but DAMN - the guys at FFR do a fabulous job.)

If you've ever worked on a late-60s musclecar... restoring one, repairing one... you'll realize just how good you've got it working on an FFR frame. Those P.O.S's from the 60's were slammed together with a +/- 1/8" (or bigger) tolerance. A STACK of shims and a BFH were the norm, not the exception!

Yes... question something that is clearly way out of whack - but if it's "just that close" do whatever's reasonable to get it to fit.

[doddmoore]

I certainly hope I don’t come off that way. My unmentionables are completely untwisted. ;-) And I’m looking forward to every part of this John, even the grinding down of slag and everything in between.

[Papa]

You'll find that there are a few places where the tabs need to be spread a bit to allow a good fit. You can make a simple spreader tool with a piece of threaded rod and a couple of large washers and nuts.

[cv2065]

You'll find that there are a few places where the tabs need to be spread a bit to allow a good fit. You can make a simple spreader tool with a piece of threaded rod and a couple of large washers and nuts.

I’ve had to so this on just about every fitment from steering to control arms to suspension. Takes a minute or less and fits super tight once snugged back together. No biggie.

[Fixit]

I certainly hope I don’t come off that way. My unmentionables are completely untwisted. ;-) And I’m looking forward to every part of this John, even the grinding down of slag and everything in between.

Oh no... not a bit.
Just remember this is a hand-built car, and it's gonna take a little bit of horse-sense and maybe a thump or two to get things to fit/line up.
(Frankly I'm a bit surprised at some of the recent threads... Maybe you guys got "Monday or Friday" frames - I only had to tweak a couple of my frame horns to get the suspension arms to slide in)

[Jeff Kleiner]

... any discrepancies side-to-side can (and will) be taken care of in the final alignment.

(One of the things I've noticed about some of the threads here is that the builders are expecting Swiss-watch/robotic/CAD/.001 tolerances on some of these parts. Ain't gonna happen. It's a bunch of steel that's clamped in a jig, and hand welded. Things move, heat distorts, but DAMN - the guys at FFR do a fabulous job.)

If you've ever worked on a late-60s musclecar... restoring one, repairing one... you'll realize just how good you've got it working on an FFR frame. Those P.O.S's from the 60's were slammed together with a +/- 1/8" (or bigger) tolerance. A STACK of shims and a BFH were the norm, not the exception!

Yes... question something that is clearly way out of whack - but if it's "just that close" do whatever's reasonable to get it to fit.

Precisely. Thank you John!

Mitchell, I didn't sense any twisted knickers, just a valid question ;)

Carry on!

Jeff

[doddmoore]

I got the slag ground off, then repainted the tab. After that dried I was able to set the lower control arm in place easily. Got it tightened and torqued down as well.

93115

I haven't attached my F panels yet. Still trying to decide on the color or the powder coat or even just the sanded aluminum. I have to make that decision and then attach those before attaching the rest of the front suspension.
Sorry the posts are so scattered. Business and the rest of life gets in the way as you all know. But I am taking my time, enjoying the skills I'm gaining and the process.

[doddmoore]

Just learning how to use the forum better so my pictures are larger. Ignore this post.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=93161&d=1536857152

[doddmoore]

In case I haven't said today how great Kevin is let me just say he is GREAT! And thanks to David Hodgkins for his post HERE (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?18962-How-to-use-the-Image-Gallery-to-embed-pictures-in-posts&highlight=post+photo) about improving your forum picture skillz. :-)

[Jazzman]

In case I haven't said today how great Kevin is let me just say he is GREAT! And thanks to David Hodgkins for his post HERE (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?18962-How-to-use-the-Image-Gallery-to-embed-pictures-in-posts&highlight=post+photo) about improving your forum picture skillz. :-)

Aw, shucks! I was just going to compliment you on the great photos!

Kevin

[doddmoore]

Soooooo many guys on this forum will say they don't know what they are doing, but they don't mean it. They have done a little here and there and know more than they realize. I do mean it. I grew up wanting to work on cars but without a dad who liked cars we just didn't do it. I eventually started to learn on my own but have never worked on cars to any extent enough to know what certain things are SUPPOSED to look like. I have changed my oil and my brake pads, but that is it. I have seen a car without a wheel on it when I was working on brake pads exactly once. So I am admittedly ignorant, but I am not an idiot. I am building a car from parts, and I eventually want to drive the car and not die. To that end I have a couple of mechanic friends that I text before, during and after my work so they can critique it and give me pointers or fix things before they go wrong.
But I want to know guys like me out there that THEY CAN DO THIS with enough help from all of you, and I WANT TO LEARN MORE ABOUT BUILDING CARS AND SUCH! This has always been my goal. I want to learn. I am passionate about the learning part. I don't have a teacher but I consider each of you my mentors.
Without knowing what the suspension was supposed to look like I want to show you what I did the other day when my mechanic friend didn't message me back in time about the suspension. (Typically I read through a couple of threads before moving on to another step, but I forgot my computer that day)
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=93721&d=1537225277

Go ahead and laugh, I don't mind. I don't get easily offended. Also don't get too worried. What I tend to do is put things in place and take pictures, text, recheck, and then get it right. And that is exactly what I did here.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=93699&d=1537222634

I have had people ask why not buy a beater and learn on it. Well, once I've learned I'm left with...a beater and some knowledge. Instead I decided to use the VAST amount of knowledge on this forum and others as my textbook. And when I am done I will have my dream car AND the knowledge. People take for granted how easy it is to look stuff up on youtube and such, but when I was a kid none of that existed. So it's time to learn. Don't worry, I am ignorant of cars for now, but I'm not an idiot. I'm not going to be putting anything together without direct influence from others and my friends "signing off" on it before I finish each part. But if a guy who knows THIS LITTLE about how a suspension should look can get it right, anyone can.

[2bking]

You have the right attitude and a willing heart. Keep at it and every step will get you a little closer to the finished product. And if you want to learn a bit about fiberglass and body work try adding a flip top. It's like everything else, each step is simple but there are many of them.

[stevencj67]

I'm really looking forward to watching your build thread. I can relate...similar background but you have taken the step to purchase. I'm aspiring, but will get there some day...hopefully soon. Keep it up and know that you and the rest of the forum contributors are really doing a great service to us all.

[doddmoore]

You have the right attitude and a willing heart. Keep at it and every step will get you a little closer to the finished product. And if you want to learn a bit about fiberglass and body work try adding a flip top. It's like everything else, each step is simple but there are many of them.
Kevin and I are definitely talking. Your engineering of it blows my mind.

[doddmoore]

I'm really looking forward to watching your build thread. I can relate...similar background but you have taken the step to purchase. I'm aspiring, but will get there some day...hopefully soon. Keep it up and know that you and the rest of the forum contributors are really doing a great service to us all.


hey thanks, I really needed that. Sucks to be a noob sometimes but I don't have any type of ego so that helps. Now when it comes to baking I might have too much ego! ;-)

[Jazzman]

One of the many things I appreciate about FFR and this forum is that you are allowed to be a noob and ask what some might say are stupid questions. Members here are very supportive, willing to help. I can now speak from experience that not all forums are the safe place that this one is!! Yes, you can do this, not because you have the knowledge but because you have the right attitude and the desire! Keep your sense of humor. I assure you that this will not be the last "funny install moment" that you will have! But it is all fun! Enjoy!

[Jazzman]

Kevin and I are definitely talking. Your engineering of it blows my mind.

What continues to amaze me about 2BKing's engineering is how complex yet simple it really is. His re-purposing of the stock hinges is simply genius. You can do this . . . I did!

[David Hodgkins]

Mitchell,

Did you get the front shocks mounted correctly? Looks like you are missing a spacer there...

:)

[doddmoore]

Mitchell,

Did you get the front shocks mounted correctly? Looks like you are missing a spacer there...

:)

I did indeed. The finished product is above in the bottom picture.

[Fixit]

So I am admittedly ignorant, but I am not an idiot.

This is the most key statement I've heard from a "noob" to automobile repair... and especially automotive BUILDING!

There is a very distinct difference between ignorant and idiot.
One means you just don't know, but are capable & willing of learning.
The other means you are incapable of learning.

You forgot another "I" word... "intelligence". In its context around here, that means you are smart enough to stop, ask a question, and apply the results.

I have to constantly remind myself not to take for granted my 45+ years of experience of wrenching, having a Dad that was a "wrench", and coming from a line of men who were incredibly "Mechanically Apt". (My Mom was 6mos. pregnant with me in the pits at Indy!) Others may have not been so fortunate.
I read some of these posts and the little guy on this shoulder whispers "Oh my Gosh - this guy is building a car??"... then the guy on the other shoulder whispers "Hey, he doesn't know about this stuff, explain it to him!".

(I make my living with my hands - and it's not by typing. I'm a tradesman. We as a society will be in a SERIOUS world of hurt in about a decade... why? - Nobody's coming up the ranks to fill the shoes of Journeymen in the trades. All the cool zoomie "tech" stuff is great - but you have to have a building to play with them in... and someone has to BUILD the building! I'll gladly "Pay It Forward" to a noob... they're not going to take my job - they're going to perpetuate it!) (OK, sorry to hijack, rant over)

[doddmoore]

This is the most key statement I've heard from a "noob" to automobile repair... and especially automotive BUILDING!

There is a very distinct difference between ignorant and idiot.
One means you just don't know, but are capable & willing of learning.
The other means you are incapable of learning.

You forgot another "I" word... "intelligence". In its context around here, that means you are smart enough to stop, ask a question, and apply the results.

I have to constantly remind myself not to take for granted my 45+ years of experience of wrenching, having a Dad that was a "wrench", and coming from a line of men who were incredibly "Mechanically Apt". (My Mom was 6mos. pregnant with me in the pits at Indy!) Others may have not been so fortunate.
I read some of these posts and the little guy on this shoulder whispers "Oh my Gosh - this guy is building a car??"... then the guy on the other shoulder whispers "Hey, he doesn't know about this stuff, explain it to him!".

(I make my living with my hands - and it's not by typing. I'm a tradesman. We as a society will be in a SERIOUS world of hurt in about a decade... why? - Nobody's coming up the ranks to fill the shoes of Journeymen in the trades. All the cool zoomie "tech" stuff is great - but you have to have a building to play with them in... and someone has to BUILD the building! I'll gladly "Pay It Forward" to a noob... they're not going to take my job - they're going to perpetuate it!) (OK, sorry to hijack, rant over)

This is exactly the reason I decided to build this kit rather than get something else...this forum and the people on it. Thank you John. If I were to get a project car I could do nothing more than watch youtube or ask some friends, but that would be it. And in the end I would know more, but I would not be on the level of a car builder and I would have to do so much learning all over again. But I knew I could stand on the shoulders of the giants here and make it happen. Slow and steady wins the race.

[doddmoore]

Even though the manual DOES NOT say it, I needed two different sized bolts for my shock install. The TOP bolt is longer than the BOTTOM bolt. The top ended up being 3.25" and the bottom 2.75". Initially I did not realize this. As luck would have it I put the correct bolt in the top right off on the driver's side, but then the bottom bolt was too long, only I didn't know it. I put those in and went to the passenger side when this happened

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=93869&d=1537407775

It was an easy fix, and I realized what had happened, but still. Also one of my nylon nuts was cross threaded and I had to go to the hardware store to replace it. But I got the chocks installed nicely and torqued down.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=93699&d=1537222634

Now onto the Spindles.

[doddmoore]

So I installed the spindles today and it went fairly well. I do have to say I did not grasp the connection between the inventory and the manual until today though. I was reading through the manual and it just says to bolt the steering arms on, but doesn't say WHICH bolt to use. The manual has a picture of the process but the bolt looks different.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=93852&d=1537404945

These two bolts come in the box with the spindles, box 14 for me. The bolt on the right is called a 12 point bolt for obvious reasons. (I know it's goofy but I love learning the difference between a 12 point bolt and another bolt. It reminds me of being a kid and my dad asking for a tool that I didn't know what was what and he would teach me. I love this process) So the 12 point bolt says on the inventory that it is for the brakes specifically. It says something like "Spindle to disc" or something. So I know that one isn't right. The other is just a 50mm bolt that I have four of, but it IS listed under the front suspension and PACKED with the spindles, so these are the ones to use. My concern was that the hub would scrape against it because the head looks SO large. I put it in and from one angle it looks dicey.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=93853&d=1537404946

But I looked at it from the top and it looks like I have PLENTY of room. I wanted to ask on here before I torque it up though to make sure.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=93859&d=1537404955

I did have a generic question as well. Am I supposed to use thread locker on any bolts that are torqued, and if so WHICH thread locker? I read on here that I was but wanted to explicitly ask.
Here is my not finished spindle but what I have so far.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=93858&d=1537404954

Notice the white paint on the upper ball joint? Who knows where I read it FIRST so I can't give credit, but I have done this on every part that is torqued for TWO reasons. One is so I can tell if it moves but two is so I know it has been torqued correctly.
Once I get the go ahead from either you all or my friends I will torque it all down and put the hubs on next.

One word about my process. I am going slightly out of order. I have not drilled any of my aluminum panels yet except for the two F panels. The reason is because I wanted to get to the point of being able to see real "I can see I am building a car" progress. Drilling out all the aluminum would not give me the look I desired, so I am putting it off. I remember looking through build threads and seeing the front and rear brakes on and thinking it was amazing that someone had built that, so I have that goal. Once I am done with the front though I think I will feel good enough to stop and move onto my aluminum. I looked through build threads and read the manual and don't think I am causing any problems for myself now or later by putting off the drilling and fitting. These two parts aren't connected. If I am wrong I am sure someone will correct me.

Last but not least my gas tank came in today so that was exciting. Now the ONLY thing I am lacking (that I am aware of) is my steering wheel.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=93854&d=1537404947

[Jazzman]

Am I supposed to use thread locker on any bolts that are torqued, and if so WHICH thread locker? I read on here that I was but wanted to explicitly ask.


If the nut is a Nylok nut, no, don't use thread locker. The thread locker damages the nylon. If the nut is a self locking nut (kind of looks like the hole is slightly triangular at one end where it has been compressed slightly) no thread locker is generally necessary. Unless specifically instructed, and then with great fear and trepidation, do not use RED Loctite! Once that stuff hardens, the only way to break it loose is to apply high heat from a torch. I use Blue Loctite on almost everything else because I am a former Harley rider . . . if you didn't put Blue Loctite on, it would vibrate off! Several manufacturers make the stuff, but the colors remain the same. I find it is cheap insurance.

I learned a great trick from the great EdwardB. After you have fully torqued a bolt to specification, apply a small dot of paint from a a paint pen to show that this bolt or nut is correctly tightened and double checked. I bought a fire engine red paint pen at my local crafts store. It works great!

I think your bolts will be OK. The rotors will be close, but not touching. Here is how mine looked:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=49811&d=1453086237

[Fixit]

2nd the above...

Loctite Red is only used on "Lunar Landing Mission Critical" or specifically called out fasteners. As stated it is a total bytch to get loose and heat or SERIOUS tools required to get it loose.

If a fastener/assembly has a Nylok nut - no additional means are needed.
If a fastener/assembly uses a flat-washer & lock-washer - no additional means are needed.
If the fastener/assembly is a taper-seat fluid connection - no additional means are needed.
If the fastener/assembly is not a "life safety" item - no additional means are needed.

The Loctite crap was invented only about 20 years ago. There are billions of fastenings in use without it... and you'll cuss yourself out a few years down the road trying to crack something loose that really didn't need it. There are exceptions... such as if something has too tight of clearance for "conventional" means, and drop of Loctite will solve the problem - but don't get crazy with the "blue goo".

[Fixit]

Drilling out all the aluminum would not give me the look I desired, so I am putting it off. I remember looking through build threads and seeing the front and rear brakes on and thinking it was amazing that someone had built that, so I have that goal. Once I am done with the front though I think I will feel good enough to stop and move onto my aluminum. I looked through build threads and read the manual and don't think I am causing any problems for myself now or later by putting off the drilling and fitting. These two parts aren't connected. If I am wrong I am sure someone will correct me.

You're not causing any problems, but you are going to hit a stage in the build soon where the tins will need to be in place for the "interference factor". You'll be running a line for a system (wiring/fluid/whatever) and you need to know where a cockpit panel is going to be in the way...

(I've drilled just about all of my holes in the tins... and have about 100 Cleco's that are circulating around the car as I tack a panel back on/off to check things. The manual is a good guide, but not 100% perfect. You do need to think ahead a bit, and page ahead a bit in the manual. Anywhere in the manual that states "Drill an access/grommet/hole/etc." in a panel is a warning flag. It's a whole lot easier to drill that panel on the bench than after it's been riveted to the car.

My Thoughts:
Linkage (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?27544-The-40-Watt-Garage-9365&p=332217&viewfull=1#post332217)
Linkage (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?27544-The-40-Watt-Garage-9365&p=339413&viewfull=1#post339413)

[cv2065]

You're not causing any problems, but you are going to hit a stage in the build soon where the tins will need to be in place for the "interference factor". You'll be running a line for a system (wiring/fluid/whatever) and you need to know where a cockpit panel is going to be in the way...

(I've drilled just about all of my holes in the tins... and have about 100 Cleco's that are circulating around the car as I tack a panel back on/off to check things. The manual is a good guide, but not 100% perfect. You do need to think ahead a bit, and page ahead a bit in the manual. Anywhere in the manual that states "Drill an access/grommet/hole/etc." in a panel is a warning flag. It's a whole lot easier to drill that panel on the bench than after it's been riveted to the car.

My Thoughts:
Linkage (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?27544-The-40-Watt-Garage-9365&p=332217&viewfull=1#post332217)
Linkage (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?27544-The-40-Watt-Garage-9365&p=339413&viewfull=1#post339413)

I second what John said. For example, you’ll need to put in your brake hard lines soon. I just ran my rear line and you really need to have your DS foot panels drilled and assembled to see where the tube feeds through. If you are going to have any of your panels powdercoated, might want to drill beforehand as well.

[Fixit]

I've noticed you also bolted the steering arms onto the spindles... potential "Gotcha" moment here, and you'll not be the 1st to get bit by it!

It is stated in the manual, and if you've carefully read the instructions you'll be OK - but (ain't there always a "but".)

The steer arms go on the wrong side of the car as they are cast/stamped/marked. The "DSS" part goes on the passenger side, the "PSS" part on the driver's side.
** A quick & easy check is that small side of the tapered hole for the tie-rod should be up, and the larger hole should be down.**

[doddmoore]

I've noticed you also bolted the steering arms onto the spindles... potential "Gotcha" moment here, and you'll not be the 1st to get bit by it!

It is stated in the manual, and if you've carefully read the instructions you'll be OK - but (ain't there always a "but".)

The steer arms go on the wrong side of the car as they are cast/stamped/marked. The "DSS" part goes on the passenger side, the "PSS" part on the driver's side.
** A quick & easy check is that small side of the tapered hole for the tie-rod should be up, and the larger hole should be down.**


I saw in the manual that it states the spindles are stamped, one DSS and the other PSS, but that is for the hot rod I think, and that it should be reversed on the Roadster. I didn't see that on the steering arms, so I will make that the first thing I check tomorrow. Thanks for the heads up!

[Fixit]

If I recall correctly the spindles aren't designated side-to-side, just the steering arms.

Edit:
Ignore the above - there are L & R - as the brake calipers need to be aft on the car.

However
I scrolled up to your pic of the DS spindle. Unless the camera angle is playing with me, it does appear you have the steer arms on the wrong side of the car. It looks like the larger opening of the tie-rod end hole is up.

[doddmoore]

Thanks to John (Fixit) for pointing this out I was saved a TON of trouble. It is by sheer luck that my steering arms are installed correctly, but I want others to avoid the problem from the start. ON page 44 it will tell you the spindles are marked for the hot rod and that you are supposed to install the driver's on the passenger side and vice versa,
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=93941&d=1537544919
THEN on page 46 it tells you to install the steering arms
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=93939&d=1537543965

Notice it says to bolt them so the tie rod ends attach from the bottom, but if you are like me you don't know what that means. Thanks to John you NOW know that it means the tie rod end attachment hole is tapered and that the taper should be larger on the bottom and smaller on top.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=93937&d=1537543955 https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=93938&d=1537543956
Like these above, you can see that the taper is larger on the bottom and smaller on top, but there is an easier way to see just looking at the steering arm itself.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=93936&d=1537543934
I have labeled them top and bottom so you can immediately see the difference. The bottom edge around the tapered hole is rough and uncut and the taper is quite evident, while the top edge has been cut or whatever, and the hole is noticeably smaller.

So there you go.

[David Hodgkins]

Mitchell,

You're doing it right! Slow and steady, verify EVERYTHING if needed.

Progress!

:)

[Jeff Kleiner]

Good job Mitchell. In addition to the orientation of the taper it needs to be noted that the steering arms need to angle outward as they point forward (which appears to be the case in your photo!).

Carry on, have fun and DO NOT hesitate to ask us when you are unsure!

Jeff

[Jazzman]

I've drilled just about all of my holes in the tins... and have about 100 Cleco's that are circulating around the car as I tack a panel back on/off to check things. The manual is a good guide, but not 100% perfect. You do need to think ahead a bit, and page ahead a bit in the manual. Anywhere in the manual that states "Drill an access/grommet/hole/etc." in a panel is a warning flag. It's a whole lot easier to drill that panel on the bench than after it's been riveted to the car.

I have nothing but upmost respect and admiration for our friend Mr. Fixit! However, I am also inherently cheap! I know there are a lot of folks who invest in cleco's, and clearly they work well. I decided to reuse the 1/2" sheet metal screws that held the panels from the factory when I needed to temporarily hold panels in place as or after they are drilled. I never found a situation where the sheet metal screws were not adequate for my purposes. Saved me a few bucks on clecos. Just my opinion.

[Kool AC]

I'm just wondering how doddmoore got an assembly manual with color photo's. I took delivery of my MKIV last Friday but my manual has black and white photo's. Sheez:confused:

[Jazzman]

I'm just wondering how doddmoore got an assembly manual with color photo's. I took delivery of my MKIV last Friday but my manual has black and white photo's. Sheez:confused:

He's a VIB: A Very Important Baker!! :cool: I believe if you buy the electronic version of the manual it has color photos.

[doddmoore]

I'm just wondering how doddmoore got an assembly manual with color photo's. I took delivery of my MKIV last Friday but my manual has black and white photo's. Sheez:confused:

I get printing super cheap through my business so I had it done. AND I didn't know a printed copy would come with the kit, but I still like mine better. Color pictures and one page per sheet rather than front and back. My first mod. Hahahaha :D

[Kool AC]

Yes, have had the electronic manual for month's and it is in color. Had thought of printing it out but the cost was prohibitive. Good luck with your ongoing build Mitchell. Your right Jazzman, everybody likes a baker. Followed your build from the beginning, took guts to do the fliptop and came out absolutely stunning.

Doug

[doddmoore]

Just a quick post to show the clearance on those HUGE bolts that held the steering arm. There is actually plenty of clearance once it's all done, it just didn't look like it from the beginning.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=93964&d=1537564154

[Fixit]

I have nothing but upmost respect and admiration for our friend Mr. Fixit! However, I am also inherently cheap! I know there are a lot of folks who invest in cleco's, and clearly they work well. I decided to reuse the 1/2" sheet metal screws that held the panels from the factory when I needed to temporarily hold panels in place as or after they are drilled. I never found a situation where the sheet metal screws were not adequate for my purposes. Saved me a few bucks on clecos. Just my opinion.

Thank you for the kind words.
I'll also make a dollar "Cry Mama"... but I'll also pry open the wallet for a tool/gizmo that saves time. Cleco's are one of them. Screws will work just fine, but my Carpal Tunnel doesn't like them!

[doddmoore]

I got the front brakes and rotors done. I went with the Wilwood option. I know many others have opted for hydraulic brakes but I'm not going to be taking this on the track and the guys I've talked to haven't had any problems stopping the car even with Mustang donor brakes. All personal preference of course. It was a pretty straightforward process using the Wilwood supplied instructions. The only thing I would mention that wasn't in the manual (I may start writing supplemental pages for the manual, it is sorely lacking for those with little experience. It expects you to know a lot more than I do. Maybe I should take that as a sign, but I am WAY too stubborn for that) anyway, the only thing the manual and Wilwood instructions won't tell you is the bolt used to attach the Calipers to the spindles is the 12 point bolt FF supplies, NOT the same size hex head bolt supplied by Wilwood.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=94088&d=1537806403

Other than that the exploded diagram in the Wilwoods is quite helpful. I love me an exploded diagram. Now that my front brakes are done I will move on to the aluminum panels. I have found a local powder coater that I am planning on sending them off to once they are drilled out. From all I have read it is the best option. No need spending all this time on something that isn't going to look great or hold up well.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=94092&d=1537806410 https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=94090&d=1537806408

[Jazzman]

Not to be a smart a&&, but now that your front suspension is all attached, how do you plan to powder coat the F panel that is riveted behind the suspension? :confused:

[doddmoore]

Not to be a smart a&&, but now that your front suspension is all attached, how do you plan to powder coat the F panel that is riveted behind the suspension? :confused:

I don't. I'm going with powder coat that is really close to the paint I used. I've seen it in the guy's shop and it looks great. I'm going to mask my frame up and gloss the F panel with several coats of automotive enamel. It won't match but it will be super close.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Just a note for others---the F panels can be installed after the front suspension with the only caveat being that you need to take into account gun access when determining rivet placement.

Looking good Mitchell!

Jeff

[Jazzman]

I don't. I'm going with powder coat that is really close to the paint I used. I've seen it in the guy's shop and it looks great. I'm going to mask my frame up and gloss the F panel with several coats of automotive enamel. It won't match but it will be super close.

Good. You have a plan. I will look forward to seeing your powder coat color. Your chosen color looks great! Does POR15 make anything close to the right color. This stuff ends up looking almost like powder coating. Just a thought.

Proceed!

[doddmoore]

My Moser 8.8 solid axle came in before my actual kit. I unboxed it and put it on jack stands and that is where it sat until now. I really wanted to get it bolted to the frame since I have banged my shins on it more than twice. I got the NON synthetic gear oil and friction modifier they recommend and filled it up with the recommended amount.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=94615&d=1538589992

Then I got it bolted back together with the RTV gasket and torqued down. Thankfully I then left for a few hours instead of bolting it on immediately. I came back to find this.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=94616&d=1538589995

A leak. Talked to some other guys on the forum and on FB and the consensus was a bad front seal. It has apparently happened enough that it came up again and again. Some said it might just need to be spun daily and see, but that did not work. I called Moser and got the part number. It's a Ratech part number 6105. I have ordered it from Summit and just waiting for it to come it. While I was on the site I went ahead and ordered the cast diff cover. The cover that comes with the axle is just ugly to me. It looks cheap. I have also read that it holds heat more than the cast cover. Now I go back to drilling panels and wait on these parts. I'm not too upset though as I will get practice changing the gear oil and removing the cover again. All good things in the end.

[Fixit]

Seems to be a problem at Moser...
"Stillwater" and I have become FFR buddies, I've been to his place, he to mine (he shlepped about 20 of my boxes on delivery day).

Moser Pinion Seal Leak (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?27180-Stillwater-s-35-Build&p=330584&viewfull=1#post330584)

You may want to reach out & PM him about it...

[DavidW]

My pinion seal leaked to, I know how you feel. Mine was from a different vendor. Its not fun replacing that $5 part plus the fluid. When finding out how to do it you'll get the importance of the flange yoke nut torque and crush sleeve thickness, etc. Good luck!

[Pat427]

Looking good so far. I'll be following your progress. I'm a novice too and will be starting my build in December.

[doddmoore]

My pinion seal leaked to, I know how you feel. Mine was from a different vendor. Its not fun replacing that $5 part plus the fluid. When finding out how to do it you'll get the importance of the flange yoke nut torque and crush sleeve thickness, etc. Good luck!

Any and all help is greatly appreciated. The guy at Moser gave me some tips, but he talked like I knew what I was doing. That means I didn’t catch most of it.

[Jazzman]

You are navigating waters that I have never been in. Did you ever get your leak fixed? Sorry I have nothing to add to this part of the discussion!!

[doddmoore]

It has been a few weeks. Being a baker who owns two bakeries during the holiday season means NO free time. Couple that with a trip to Austin for one of the best F1 races I've seen in a while and I just have not been able to get back to the car. That all ended today and yesterday though. Hopefully that bodes well for the future. First I got my pinion seal changed out on my Diff only to find out that wasn't the leak. There is a fill hole on the side of the diff that was not screwed in all the way when they powder coated it. The small tiny leak was coming from there.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=96096&d=1540348470

This is the culprit right here. But on a brighter note I now know what it is like to change a pinion seal. I love the learning.
While I was buying a $6 part I figured I might as well throw in a $150 part, you know. Kevin (Jazzman) says I've got the bug, and I have to say he is probably right. I hated the chrome cover that came with the Moser rear end, I just thought it looked so cheap. Once I read on the forum that it can hold heat that was all I needed to take the plunge. So I changed that out as well.
The new diff cover came with a gasket that didn't fit. I asked online and all the guys said just use RTV so that is what I did.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=96103&d=1540348495

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=96104&d=1540348497
From this to...
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=96105&d=1540348502

A huge improvement!
Now that I had the diff leak figured out and handled I started the process of drilling the panels since I had put that off so long. After all of what I thought was my careful marking and labeling and photographing, I STILL missed a piece! On the inside of the Driver's Side footbox, there are TWO small aluminum angles, not one. I totally missed one and when I unscrewed the tapping screws and I heard it fall, then I had no idea where it went. It took more time and effort than I would like to mention to get it back together right. Here is what I am talking about

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=96094&d=1540348463

These are TWO separate pieces divided where the dotted line is. From further back in the DS box it looks like this

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=96097&d=1540348471

I started drilling and putting in clecos, I may have gotten carried away but I was having fun.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=96100&d=1540348476

I hope to continue my run of actually working on the car sometime soon.

[cv2065]

Glad you got the leak worked out as well as some learning on the way! That’s why we all bought into FFR in the first place right? Looking good Bud!

[Fixit]

Don't beat yourself up too badly... I think it took me 4 or 5 attempts to get those two pieces right. :p

[doddmoore]

Don't beat yourself up too badly... I think it took me 4 or 5 attempts to get those two pieces right. :p
I’m not telling how many attempts it took me. ��

[cv2065]

I’m not telling how many attempts it took me. ��

Same here. Glad I'm not the only one...

[Fixit]

I started drilling and putting in clecos, I may have gotten carried away but I was having fun.

I'll agree... It's kinda fun & weird seeing the car look like a porcupine having a bad hair day!

[doddmoore]

A tiny bit of work done today. We are really gearing up for the holidays so I'm trying to squeeze in as much as I can.
I went to install my rear brakes today, and looking at the instructions from Wilwood they are very specific that the U opening should point up and the mounting ears to the front. But doing that the holes did not line up. They are marked Left and Right so I double and triple checked that I wasn't putting them on the wrong side. Still nothing. I switched them to the opposite side and still nothing.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=96953&d=1541480809
Finally I started hunting threads and found the Factory Five install guide which says the U opening should point DOWN. Presto chango and they line up perfectly.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=96952&d=1541480677
I also started to install the rest but I have very little clearance at the back of my rotor to the caliper mounting bracket. Only about 1mm. Maybe since they all travel together that is enough but it just feels tight. I have used all the shims provided. I'm guessing I need more shims but wanted to reach out first before I do. I did install one of the calipers and it lines up well, but the clearance issue at the back still bothers me.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=96950&d=1541480677
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=96951&d=1541480677

What say you?

[JoeAIII]

I did not measure the clearance on mine, but did not have an issue. As long as the rotor is centered in the caliper it should be fine.

I also had to mount mine "backwards" from what the wilwood illustrations show. Function should be the same as long as you can get a good path for brake lines and handbrake cables. I havent reached that part, myself.

[Fixit]

"Need a clearance Clarence, and a vector Victor"... (sorry, just had to do it - you left the door wide open on that one)

Those parts are locked in place, no need for concern. If they start to rub down the road, you've got bigger problems.

[doddmoore]

Got the power steering rack installed as well as the outer tie rod ends. I had been waiting to do that since my tie rod ends had not come in yet. Finally they came in with my radiator. ONLY thing I am lacking now is my steering wheel.
So as I unpacked the steering rack and looked at a couple of threads, as well as watching build video from FFR they kept talking about the bushings and sleeves not being in, but mine did have them, they just didn't fit by QUITE a lot. I knew they weren't right so I searched on the forum and found THIS POST (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?26316-Bushings-and-sleeves-for-FFR-power-steering-option) from Yama-Bro that cleared it right up. It was a bit fiddly but I got it installed. THEN I went to install my tie rod ends and found that NO amount of fiddling was going to get them to go in. They looked like this
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=97128&d=1541862378
I posted it online and, true to my noob status, was reminded that the ends move. DUH! I felt like the ignorant guy that I am, but with the guys help I got it installed, so no amount of ignorance is going to stop me apparently. AND now I have that knowledge. To be honest I really don't like the tie rod ends. The dust caps are pretty cheap and the piece itself seems kind of low quality. I may end up upgrading at some time. Next I installed the lower steering shaft and the flange and pillow bearings. All was well. I even was able to test the steering a little by moving the steering hub back and forth. What a great feeling.
One last thing: I think I need more shims for my caliper bracket on my rear brakes. Even though the clearance is not an issue it doesn't line up in the middle of the caliper.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=97125&d=1541862368
I don't have any more shims, but can I just use a washer that is the same size to get the correct spacing?

Real visual progress is amazing.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=97129&d=1541862381
Next is the pedal box for me after getting all of this lined up. Thanks for all the help so far. And this is all the "easy stuff." Just IMAGINE all the questions I'm going to have when it gets more advanced!

[doddmoore]

Slow and steady wins the race.

That's what I keep telling myself. I'm eating this elephant one bite at a time. Yesterday I got the pedal box started, installed the clutch quadrant, and temporarliy mounted the pedals. Mainly so I could mark the holes to drill for the support. An easy enough job. I can say that I missed something on my inventory. It's the nature of looking for a "clutch stop" when you have absolutely no idea what a clutch stop looks like. So I counted the pieces and thought I had them all, but alas. I emailed FF and they are sending it out of course. I can say they are so great with the support. So while I wait on the clutch stop I went ahead and mounted the pedal box and drilled the holes. The build is a lot of hurry up and wait, but that is fine. The end result will be driving my own Cobra, so it's worth it.
One note about the clutch quadrant and support pieces. They are cut I guess by a laser and as Edward has pointed out they have SHARP edges and small burrs on each cut. I took the time to sand these down for my own safety as well as so they fit snugly against each other and the frame.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=97452&d=1542168699

I am also taking this time to make templates of all of the aluminum pieces that will get Thermo tec. I'm using the brown heavy paper that came in all the boxes. This way I can cut the pieces to fit and get them installed when I get the aluminum painted and back in.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=97453&d=1542169461

I'm also not using the carpet that came with the kit. I bought my own leather from leather hide store online
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=97455&d=1542169465
and carpet to do a beige interior like this (only I'm sure it won't be anywhere NEAR as nice)

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=97454&d=1542169462

I will use the templates for both the carpet and the insulation. Slow and steady, and loving every minute of it.

[doddmoore]

Today felt more productive that it actually was, but I'll take it. I started to install my E Brake. BE AWARE that the instructions for the E brake are a supplemental from the site, they are not in the manual. You can find them HERE (http://www.factoryfiveparts.com/instructions/). I knew I was going to do EdwardB's mod with the pulley because I don't like the look of the cables running under the frame. I have ordered two pulleys from McMaster. You can see that mod HERE (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?18591-EdwardBs-Mk4-8674-20th-Anniversary-Build&p=225428&viewfull=1#post225428). But I definitely need to look at my routing. You can see below that I have routed the cable to the rear, then across the shock body, then up. I added yellow where there would be zip ties. But using that route the cables are too long.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=97484&d=1542231214

What would you suggest for better routing so the length is correct?
Also, according to everyone else's threads there are supposed to be e clips where the cable feeds into the caliper, but mine did not come with them either. Seems to be a problem I have read more than once. I got 1/2" e clips from Home Depot and got them clipped on here:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=97485&d=1542231215

Once I get the routing issue figured out I will dissassemble the handle and paint the bare metal to protect it, as other's have mentioned.
Like I said it feels good to see stuff like that in action and to make these small strides, but the next step is usually to take it apart to do something else. In this case I will paint and reroute. Really not sure about the routing though. Any advice is greatly appreciated.

[PeteMeindl]

Thanks for pointing out that we need additional instructions for the e-brake, Mitchell - i was glancing ahead in the manual and feeling like i was missing something! Now I know why. :)

[doddmoore]

Forgot I didn't post a picture of the E clip installed. My one complaint, if I can have a complaint, about FFR, the kit, and the manual, is that they all make certain assumptions about the knowledge of the builders. That is probably for the best, as you probably shouldn't attempt this if you have as little working knowledge as I. But what about the hard heads like me who want to build it anyway? This little clip was not in my kit, and is not mentioned anywhere in the manual or supplemental, but it is still necessary. The way I look at it if it is necessary it should be mentioned. But that is just me.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=97576&d=1542423249

[GoDadGo]

My one complaint, if I can have a complaint, about FFR, the kit, and the manual, is that they all make certain assumptions about the knowledge of the builders. But what about the hard heads like me who want to build it anyway?

Hard Heads Like You Usually Stuff A Chevy In It!

The fact is that We Are All Hard Heads and in the end our heads will be even harder.

You've Got This Brother & The F-5 Family Is Here To Cheer You On!

https://youtu.be/NhRHwAbtrt0

[Fixit]

My one complaint, if I can have a complaint, about FFR, the kit, and the manual, is that they all make certain assumptions about the knowledge of the builders. That is probably for the best, as you probably shouldn't attempt this if you have as little working knowledge as I. But what about the hard heads like me who want to build it anyway? This little clip was not in my kit, and is not mentioned anywhere in the manual or supplemental, but it is still necessary. The way I look at it if it is necessary it should be mentioned. But that is just me.

You are correct in that FFR makes an assumption that a builder has some mechanical aptitude, and some experience working on automobiles.
My line of thinking on this:
Yes, it is a "kit".
No, you cannot start at page 1 in the manual, part 00001, and attach part 00002 to part 00001, then 00003 to 00002, continue, and eventually have a perfectly running new car.
However...
If a potential builder must have their hammer labeled "Hold at this End", they should probably consider another project.
If you can assemble IKEA furniture or a kid's presents on Dec 24th without parts left over, you could probably build one of these cars.

FFR has done a fabulous job of engineering a car that someone with (currently) limited aptitudes and minimal tools can assemble - especially if they have local help, or by using resources like this forum.

You have demonstrated the most important aspect of diving into this pool - the intelligence of knowing when to stop and ask a question before potentially making an expensive or life-threatening mistake.
Exercise what my wife calls "Sitsin' & Thinkin". She catches me just staring motionless at something for a few minutes. "You Sitsin & Thinkin again?". I've got the gears turning in my head - thinking about how something works, how it's routed, what potentially could be in the way/foul it, etc.

Someone has probably done what you're stumped on before. That's why this forum is a fabulous resource. Help is just a click away.

[doddmoore]

If you haven't noticed yet, my free time during the holidays is pretty much non existent. These are busy busy times for us at the bakeries, and pretty busy times for us at home as well. But in the midst of all of that I found a teensy amount of time to work on the car. I did receive my Lokar clevis and the pulley wheels to do edwardb's E Brake mod, but I haven't had time to do anything other than paint the bare metal and reinstall those parts. I'm hoping to get to the mod this week, but that may be a tall order. Here is the painted brake at least.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=98190&d=1543199513

While I waited on my parts to come in for the E Brake mod I did get the "clutch stop" in from FF, and much to my surprise this is what they sent

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=98189&d=1543199512

Well I HAD all that, I just didn't know that was a "Clutch stop." I looked again at the manual and got nowhere, so I looked at the supplementals online and found it. I still don't think I would have known this is what they were talking about though even after reading the supplemental again. I have read the manual cover to cover AND read several build threads, a few more than once, but STILL I am surprised by things like this. So I got the clutch stop installed as per the supplemental and got the pedal box installed. I then installed the master cylinders.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=98191&d=1543199516

It's funny. I have heard the term Brake Balance all my life, and I could even understand the concept, but nothing beats actually seeing that brake balance bar and making adjustments yourself. Now I get it. Totally makes sense.

One thing that I don't have pictures of but wanted to mention is the flange bearing. My pedal box mount rests just on top of the flange bearing. This prevents the pedal box mount from being completely flush with the front of the DS pedal box. I guess that part is considered the DS firewall? I will get pictures and update. But from what I see I am either going to have to cut a small notch in the pedal box mount or I'm going to have to trim the top of the interior part of the flange bearing. Are there other solutions? Have I installed something wrong? I'll update with pictures tomorrow if I'm not explaining it well.
I'm aiming for at least 4 uninterrupted hours a week until after Christmas. If I can manage that it will be impressive even to me!

[Mark Eaton]

Forgot I didn't post a picture of the E clip installed. My one complaint, if I can have a complaint, about FFR, the kit, and the manual, is that they all make certain assumptions about the knowledge of the builders. That is probably for the best, as you probably shouldn't attempt this if you have as little working knowledge as I.

Thanks for posting this. I realized my kit didn't come with the E clips either and i haven't installed them. I remember when I installed the e brake cables they popped in and felt pretty secure. I hadn't given it another thought until I read your post. I'll be off the to hardware store soon!

Mark

[Boydster]

Per my manual, I think the steering flange bearing should be mounted on the outside of the box. I installed mine on the inside to get a bit of room to remove / reinstall the steering shaft, and had to grind the top of the flange to fit. Yes, it does not fit on the inside and needs to be modified.

Here's a pic of the original against the modified...

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=98219&d=1543240706

[miller7448]

I struggled with the steering flange as well. Even tried moving to the inside of the foot box, but found the interference problems you describe. In the end I found the one and only orientation of the steering shaft that allowed assembly. For me the shaft end towards the steering wheel had to be positioned in toward the engine and slightly up. Of course to do that the pedal box needs to be removed or at least loosened. Then the shaft needs to be rotated until enough clearance appears to couple the spline. Frustrating at first but once assembled the design is impressive.

[doddmoore]

Per my manual, I think the steering flange bearing should be mounted on the outside of the box. I installed mine on the inside to get a bit of room to remove / reinstall the steering shaft, and had to grind the top of the flange to fit. Yes, it does not fit on the inside and needs to be modified.

Here's a pic of the original against the modified...

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=98219&d=1543240706
Yes that looks like the exact cut I may have to make. I’m going to dive into your thread tomorrow. One of the thousands I have missed.

[doddmoore]

I struggled with the steering flange as well. Even tried moving to the inside of the foot box, but found the interference problems you describe. In the end I found the one and only orientation of the steering shaft that allowed assembly. For me the shaft end towards the steering wheel had to be positioned in toward the engine and slightly up. Of course to do that the pedal box needs to be removed or at least loosened. Then the shaft needs to be rotated until enough clearance appears to couple the spline. Frustrating at first but once assembled the design is impressive.

Let me look through your posts. Having a hard time wrapping my mind around it.

[Boydster]

Yes that looks like the exact cut I may have to make. I’m going to dive into your thread tomorrow. One of the thousands I have missed.

The build has been stalled lately, waiting for the body to be done at Whitby's. They said 6-9 months, now up to 10 and no word... [sigh]... another builder said his took 16 months.

Also, even after moving the bearing to the inside, I still had to loosen the rack to get the steering shaft apart for best spline alignment. So inside or outside doesnt really matter except this fit detail.

[Jeff Kleiner]

The flange bearing mounts to the outside (engine bay side) of the footbox front wall and for clarification does not sandwich it; i.e. both retainer halves are on the same side of the wall. The collar with the setscrews faces rearward.

Jeff

[doddmoore]

The flange bearing mounts to the outside (engine bay side) of the footbox front wall and for clarification does not sandwich it; i.e. both retainer halves are on the same side of the wall. The collar with the setscrews faces rearward.

Jeff
Mind. Blown. THANK YOU!

[doddmoore]

Dealing with the doldrums here in Jackson. Not that I don't have plenty to do, but as you can tell from my LACK of updating I have not been able to touch the kit in about three months. I own a couple of bakeries and the Holidays were really good and really busy. On top of that we are opening a new restaurant in the fall and have been in planning stages for that for some months. It seems like each time I think I have a day that day gets filled up quick, and it's off to work we go again. I knew this was going to be a long process for me and I have really missed dealing with the kit AND visiting the forum regularly to see what other's are doing and going through. But I am alive and doing well. Really well, a little TOO well on the business end, but that is a good problem to have. Life has other plans always and I am along for the ride. In a few years I will be along for the ride in the Cobra, but it is going to be a few years I feel sure.

[Higgybulin]

If you have time, you have no money. If you have money, you have no time! That seems to be the case for me at some point during my projects, enjoy being healthy and living life. You'll get it done!
Higgy

[doddmoore]

I'm back in the saddle again...

My Father-in-law Papa J came in to town and had a LIST of things he wanted to help accomplish on the kit, and so we did! I took off three full days to spend time with him on the car, even had a friend come over. We started by working on the brake reservoir. For those who have the new reservoir like I do the manual doesn't match up. It says there is an L bracket that you use to attach the brake reservoir but it now has another type of bracket.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105196&d=1554690129

Once we got that figured out we started lining it up. It needed to be low enough that I could open it once the body was on (thanks to the MANY build threads that have pointed this out) But high enough that I didn't have to drill through the pedal box attachment plate. We ended up getting it installed in what we think will be the best place and angled the 90º barb on the bottom ever so slightly since the hose that will attach to it is just a hose and we will not need it to go straight through the driver's foot box. It's slight but helpful.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105197&d=1554690145

From the back.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105201&d=1554690187

Papa J and I also decided for a little fun and a boost we should install the steering wheel and set the seats in. That was a good moment.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105200&d=1554690178

Speaking of seats, my leather is in (which I think I have mentioned in a previous post but I could be wrong) and we have it stretched over the body to relax before sending the seats and leather off to the upholsterers.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105199&d=1554690168

That is it for today but I am SO happy to be back at it. What I thought was going to take many years may only take a few years! Ha!

[doddmoore]

Brake reservoir mounting.

Here is what we ended up with today. I would like you all to critique my plumbing set up. I guess it looks fine and my father in law was ok with it, but I wanted to double check.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105241&d=1554763072

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105242&d=1554763087

We do have it clipped to stay out of the way of the movement below, and the length of the tubing is so it helps to keep it high. I guess when I finish out the foot box it will rest against the inside facing the engine bay. Just not sure if I should trim it up a little or if it is fine. Also some of the hose clamps say 12 and some say 14 so my questions are:
1. What is the difference and
2. which should I use on this tubing?

We also went ahead and started putting the flex lines on my Wilwood brakes and immediately came into some trouble. The part that screws into the caliper (not sure what that is called, but the flex line attaches to it) seemed like it was bottoming out WAY before it should. Looking through a few threads (thanks AGAIN to edwardb) we see that it is just how they are but he suggested using thread sealant on it. I'll get that tomorrow and we should be good to go. THEN we finally being bending brake lines. I think we are going to use what came with the kit as practice tubing, not expecting it to look very good that first time, then be prepared to get more if needed so we can make it look good and not kink. We are pretty much expecting it to kink on us at some point.

Here is my brake line mounting bracket attached to my F panel, not for any reason other than I took the picture. It looks from this angle as if it is resting on the bolt on the end of the Upper control arm, but it isn't touching. Just looks that way.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105239&d=1554763049

It really feels like progress even though it's still years away, but I am happy with what we are accomplishing. Brake lines then fuel tank then fuel lines. Then and then and then and then and then.

[doddmoore]

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105238&d=1554763036

What is this insert called? ALSO, when it is in all the way is there a direction that it should point? ALSO I am supposed to use thread sealant on this, but what about the other connections with the brake system? ALSO how do I know when it is in all the way? Today it just felt like it bottomed out at some point and we guessed that was it, but we took it back out anyway to get feedback.

[doddmoore]

Just a close up of my leather so you can see the grain. Someone asked on instagram or facebook or something, so here it is as well.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105314&d=1554776297

[Jeff Kleiner]

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105238&d=1554763036

What is this insert called? ALSO, when it is in all the way is there a direction that it should point? ALSO I am supposed to use thread sealant on this, but what about the other connections with the brake system? ALSO how do I know when it is in all the way? Today it just felt like it bottomed out at some point and we guessed that was it, but we took it back out anyway to get feedback.

That is pipe thread going from the fitting into the caliper and should get teflon pipe sealant. The washer you have shown does not go there. FYI regarding pipe thread (NPT); if you look closely you'll notice that there is a slight taper to the outside diameter of the threaded end of the fitting. The male portion is narrower at the beginning and the female portion is wider at the beginning. As they are turned together this interference fit between the male and female threads becomes greater and creates the seal. So...what you and your father in law felt was not the fitting bottoming out but rather what pipe threads are designed to do---tighten against themselves. The teflon paste serves as both a sealant and lubricant.

Hope that helps and it's good to see you back at it!

Jeff

[doddmoore]

Got the flex lines installed and riveted in, and then went to install the brake hard lines and realized I didn't like where I had my brackets installed on the back. The front and rear both look fine, but looking at some others I prefer a different spot for the rear attachment so I am going to end up moving them.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105471&d=1554944257

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105470&d=1554944238

While I was there with my father in law he wanted to lube the entire kit as it is, making sure to get everything while it was open and available. PLUS as you all know I am a noob and had never done a lube before. He did all the zerk fittings that he could find but stopped when it came the the rear calipers on the Wilwoods. Do those get lubed as well? Is it a certain or different grease than the rest of the chassis? He wanted to ask before we went ahead with those last two zerk fittings on top of the rear calipers.

We also got the sending unit and pick up installed in the gas tank, BUT could NOT get it attached. We twisted, pushed, pulled, bent, unbent, cajoled, and otherwise held our mouths in the right position and STILL could not get the bolts to fit through the straps or even line up enough to do it. Talking to SEVERAL of you on FB it was recommended to just get longer bolts to get it started so I will do that as soon as I get back. I also remembered the rear bumper hack that edwardb mentions or maybe it was Jeff, either way I want to do that before I put in the tank so I will get those couplers when I get back. I leave the tank on the ground as is.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105469&d=1554944211

I'm taking a few days off to head to Austin, TX to watch the MotoGP race. If any of you are going or if anyone is in Austin please let me know. I would LOVE to come see your car, kit, or build in any shape at all.

[edwardb]

While I was there with my father in law he wanted to lube the entire kit as it is, making sure to get everything while it was open and available. PLUS as you all know I am a noob and had never done a lube before. He did all the zerk fittings that he could find but stopped when it came the the rear calipers on the Wilwoods. Do those get lubed as well? Is it a certain or different grease than the rest of the chassis? He wanted to ask before we went ahead with those last two zerk fittings on top of the rear calipers.

We also got the sending unit and pick up installed in the gas tank, BUT could NOT get it attached. We twisted, pushed, pulled, bent, unbent, cajoled, and otherwise held our mouths in the right position and STILL could not get the bolts to fit through the straps or even line up enough to do it. Talking to SEVERAL of you on FB it was recommended to just get longer bolts to get it started so I will do that as soon as I get back. I also remembered the rear bumper hack that edwardb mentions or maybe it was Jeff, either way I want to do that before I put in the tank so I will get those couplers when I get back. I leave the tank on the ground as is.

Those fittings on the Wilwood calipers (and all other brake calipers) are bleeders used to bleed air from the brake system. Not grease zerk fittings. There are no grease fittings on the calipers. Unless you opened them, nothing would go in plus I'm not even sure a grease gun fits. But please don't try to do what you're describing.

For the tank, did you flatten the flange around the tank? In other words, remove where the flange is bent up by where the straps are installed? Mentioned in the build manual, but often missed. Hard to tell from your pictures. If you didn't, that will interfere with how the tank fits against the plastic bumpers on the frame and make the bolts hard to install. Once it's sitting flat, normally the left (driver's) side installs pretty easily. But not unusual to need a longer bolt on the right (passenger) side. Once it's started and tightened, a lot of the threads will show. But often is hard to get started with the supplied bolt.

[doddmoore]

He has built more cars than I have driven and he’s going to kick himself when he finds out what they are. He didn’t think they were zerks so we never tried to attach the grease gun.

[doddmoore]

Well after getting back to the car for a week I'm now off again, but at least it isn't work keeping me away. Greetings from beautiful Austin, TX for the MotoGP race this weekend. I am hoping to get to see another Cobra later today from a builder.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105567&d=1555162072

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105566&d=1555162060

Bikes are on the track and we are having a blast. But I am really looking forward to getting back to the kit!

[doddmoore]

After a well deserved break I got back to the car first thing today. I used some ratchet straps to lift the gas tank into place and get it attached. Apparently a lot of guys have had the problem of the bolts being too short to attach the straps. This is what mine looked like.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105795&d=1555376431

No amount of prodding on my part was going to get that strap into place, but using a longer bolt I was able to get it in and tightened. That brought the strap to the right place and worked like a charm. I took this picture before putting the other bolt in because I was so excited that it worked. Once I get it in place I am going to drop it again to do the coupler mod where the rear quickjacks attach.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105794&d=1555376424

This really feels like progress. Once I get the couplers on tomorrow I am going to reroute my brake lines and install my fuel lines. Feels GREAT!

[PeteMeindl]

Keep up the good progress!

[DavidW]

Yeah that's a good idea to lift it up with ratchet straps wish I thought of that, I laid underneath and pushed it up then wonder how my shirt got all ripped up, those metal tank straps have some sharp edges.

[doddmoore]

It's been about 4 months since I was able to work on the kit, but my Father-in-law came into town which gave me the perfect opportunity to get back to it.
We got the firewall installed and the holes drilled for the wiring. It's a pretty straightforward process and I was happy to see it move so quickly. Instructions for a change are incredibly clear and photos are helpful as well.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=112842&d=1566569447

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=112844&d=1566569465

After getting the harnesses installed and the clips attached we moved on to the fuel filter and radiator.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=112843&d=1566569457

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=112846&d=1566569485

My radiator did not have any holes drilled in any part of it. In all of the photos there are round and long holes in the radiator, but mine was completely undrilled. Not a huge deal, and could even be normal, but just something that was different. I have ordered the Breeze lower radiator mount. I don't like how it is just hanging out there. Plus the metal is pretty soft, and with my schedule it may sit like this for 6 months. It just doesn't feel safe.
The only other thing I will mention is since there are such long gaps in the time that I get to work on stuff I sometimes lose my place. I will take a bag out of a box and have it on the workbench. Then 3 months later forget where that bag came from. I started writing both the box and bag numbers on the manual pages so I could easily reference each.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=112845&d=1566569476

Maybe it will help another noob to not have 5 bags on the bench and have to look back through the inventory to figure out what connectors go with what.

I am starting on all of the sheet metal next. It has been sprayed with a sealant but I don't think I am going to paint any of it anymore. I think it will all have the thermo tec on it anyway. Does anyone else have thermo-tec on the firewall that isn't covered by anything? I mean the side facing the engine compartment. I can always mask and paint it but I think the thermo-tec will be the better route for me since I am driving and not showing the car. And it's the *Deep South* which means it is hot. Really hot, so anything I can do to cut down on the heat getting into the cockpit is a good idea. I think.

[doddmoore]

So I started on my PS footbox. Let me tell you if you have marked anything incorrectly it will come back to bite you. I apparently marked the flanges as being on the outside. Not sure how I did that but I messed that up. So my first install went like this

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=112876&d=1566608842

Pretty ugly. Once I posted a picture online and the guys started telling me to put the flanges on the inside I went back, drilled all of them out, took it apart, cleaned all the silicone off, and then reinstalled them with the flanges inside. It was a TON of work but totally worth it. It looks SOOOOOOO much better the right way.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=112987&d=1566866202

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=112989&d=1566866220

I have a lot MORE cleaning to do as well, but then I am going to prep the metal for POR-15 on the inside of the engine compartment. So the engine side of the firewall and the footboxes. Inside the footboxes I will use Kilmat or Thermo-tec or something similar.
Part of the problem in addition to them being marked wrong by yours truly, was that I did not take my computer with me to the shop that day. Usually my routine is to read the manual then read a couple of build threads specifically about what I am working on. But that day I did not do that and I have paid the price. Learn from my mistakes and always do the research ahead of time. SO much effort to fix it once it was wrong. Thanks again to all of you who are so generous with your time and knowledge. I am eating this elephant one bite at a time.

[Boydster]

Good to see ya back, Tonks. Keep on building. And we've all had some of those "D'oh!" moments. ;)

[GoDadGo]

Tonk,

Great to see you back inaction as well.
Also, check the height of your reservoir in comparison to your Master Cylinders because it looks like it may be a tad low.
It may be the angle of the picture, but please check the height because the reservoir needs to be higher than your M/C's.
Happy Wrenching & Again, Glad To See You Back!

Steve

[doddmoore]

Is there a specific “part” of the reservoir that needs to be higher? Top, middle, bottom? I’ll check it today and let you know


Tonk,

Great to see you back inaction as well.
Also, check the height of your reservoir in comparison to your Master Cylinders because it looks like it may be a tad low.
It may be the angle of the picture, but please check the height because the reservoir needs to be higher than your M/C's.
Happy Wrenching & Again, Glad To See You Back!

Steve

[GoDadGo]

The top of the cap needs to be higher than the Master Cylinders.
Hope this helps.

[TMartinLVNV]

So I started on my PS footbox. Let me tell you if you have marked anything incorrectly it will come back to bite you. I apparently marked the flanges as being on the outside. Not sure how I did that but I messed that up. So my first install went like this

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=112876&d=1566608842

Pretty ugly. Once I posted a picture online and the guys started telling me to put the flanges on the inside I went back, drilled all of them out, took it apart, cleaned all the silicone off, and then reinstalled them with the flanges inside. It was a TON of work but totally worth it. It looks SOOOOOOO much better the right way.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=112987&d=1566866202

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=112989&d=1566866220

I have a lot MORE cleaning to do as well, but then I am going to prep the metal for POR-15 on the inside of the engine compartment. So the engine side of the firewall and the footboxes. Inside the footboxes I will use Kilmat or Thermo-tec or something similar.
Part of the problem in addition to them being marked wrong by yours truly, was that I did not take my computer with me to the shop that day. Usually my routine is to read the manual then read a couple of build threads specifically about what I am working on. But that day I did not do that and I have paid the price. Learn from my mistakes and always do the research ahead of time. SO much effort to fix it once it was wrong. Thanks again to all of you who are so generous with your time and knowledge. I am eating this elephant one bite at a time.

Mitch, I am king of putting it all together, stepping back, and realizing that I did it wrong and have to do it all over again. Isn't it amazing how fast it is to put together the second time? I've had to drill out plenty of rivets too. Twice now I put in a panel only to realize that I didn't silicone it!!!

Terry

[doddmoore]

I started to put in my sheet metal and got to the cockpit when someone recommended I relocate the E-brake before I put in the rest, as access would be the main problem. I put the seat in and the steering wheel and tried to actuate the brake and could barely reach it. I am not the tallest guy nor do I have the longest arms. So decision made, but this would be the first real major mod I have done. I don't weld and I don't fabricate yet, although I am trying to figure out something for the next mod, but that is later. So my fix had to have a couple of rules:
1. It had to use what I already had
2. It had to NOT require welding or fabricating parts

I had the Lokar cables that came with a bracket and ferules, so I figured I was going to use them. Searching on the forums I got a couple of ideas and decided to go with this. I would mount the brake on the top of the trans tunnel, and my bolts would go through the top. If I used carriage bolts I could get them to sit flush, so the disruption to the tunnel cover will be minimal.
After figuring out where the handle would go I drilled a couple of holes then filed them until they were square, so the carriage bolts would sit as flush as possible.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=114257&d=1568401054

I knew from the FIRST time I installed the brake that the cables needed to be pretty straight heading to the cable lock. I cut off the bracket from the frame and ground it down to accept the Lokar bracket. I bent that bracket so the angle would be correct.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=114252&d=1568401015

Then installed it at a bit of an angle to minimize any disruption to the cables themselves.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=114259&d=1568401069

I drilled new holes in the bracket so a total of four rivets will hold it on. I am also going to go the overkill route and use a metal epoxy in addition to the rivets. Just don't want it to budge at all and had heard stories about some of them breaking when pulled on.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=114256&d=1568401046

This will be the finished product once I get everything attached permanently and screwed down tight. I think I will have enough clearance on the top so the boot I am using will just snug right to the edge of the tunnel.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=114258&d=1568401062

If I have messed anything up terribly please let me know. This is a pretty simple solution because I am a simple guy, but before the final attachments I want to make sure it is all good. I might need to move the handle another inch or so away from the edge but I think I am fine. The trim ring I will install once the carpet is in measures 6.25" long by 2.5" wide on the outside. My handle sits 2" from the edge, so the trim ring should have .5" of clearance.

[GTBradley]

I am starting on all of the sheet metal next. It has been sprayed with a sealant but I don't think I am going to paint any of it anymore. I think it will all have the thermo tec on it anyway. Does anyone else have thermo-tec on the firewall that isn't covered by anything? I mean the side facing the engine compartment. I can always mask and paint it but I think the thermo-tec will be the better route for me since I am driving and not showing the car. And it's the *Deep South* which means it is hot. Really hot, so anything I can do to cut down on the heat getting into the cockpit is a good idea. I think.

Looking good, but I have a preference for the natural look when it comes to the panels, so I love the firewall as is. I put the sound and heat insulation on the inside of the firewall for that reason.

As as far as the forgetting goes, I took almost no breaks in my build and still was confused at times where things were or what box they came out of, so I marked every bag and the manual with descriptions and box numbers.

[doddmoore]

Slow and steady. Every time I read the book the turtle wins.

I got my firewall and PS footbox painted with about 7 coats of POR-15 high temp manifold grey. I used a spare piece of aluminum to test the paint and found that scuffing it works best for adhesion since there is no rust to paint over. I scuffed and prepped the aluminum then according to the instructions I used one coat as primer. Sanded a bit between coats and kept going. It is amazing stuff and I love the look.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=114489&d=1568773031

I also started to measure for my drop trunk. I am going to make my own just so I can get some experience in modding and fabricating and such. Still not welding but it is on the list.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=114490&d=1568773042

Going to make the trunk as large as possible. Not cutting the crossbar is really going to limit the space but I just don't want to do it. So making my own trunk it is! I am going to use mine as a daily driver as much as possible so having a usable space back there is a necessity, plus the learning and experience.
So far so good.

[TMartinLVNV]

Your POR paint looks really good. I used Duplicolor bedliner spray and am not happy with it. It comes off way too easily. The evenness of your paint is much better too.

Terry

[doddmoore]

Your POR paint looks really good. I used Duplicolor bedliner spray and am not happy with it. It comes off way too easily. The evenness of your paint is much better too.

Terry

I may have had some experience with spray paint in my life, and that is all I will say about that unless you are an officer of the law. PLUS the POR-15 spray can has a vertical flat spray nozzle that really helps. Never start or finish on the metal you are painting. Start the spray beside it and pass over until you are off the metal, then stop the spray. And shake for about 2 minutes before starting, then shake again every 5 or 6 sprays. Happy Painting as Bob Ross would say!

[doddmoore]

Back at it...at long last. Can't believe it has been nine months since my last update. I have been on the forum reading you guys, but between opening my third restaurant in November, then closing all three of my places in March, only to reopen a couple of them three months later it has been insane. I thought when I closed all my businesses and laid everyone off that I would have plenty of time to work on the car, but I probably worked harder during that time on the restaurants. I wasn't able to get unemployment because of the way I get paid, so I was selling bread at a local market to put gas in the car. Then we did some pop up restaurants because I had some staff that also was not on unemployment. I was able to help them get paid cash and keep the lights on and such.
Anyway, I finally got to work on the car and got the dash laid out. I took some scraps of leather and foam like many many of the guys here have suggested and practiced adhering it to metal. I am SO happy that I did as the end result came out really clean. It took three practice attempts with scraps before I felt confident enough to try it on the whole dash.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=132083&d=1595126817

The foam on the dash. I used DAP Weldwood and a roller to get a really even coat. Then put the two parts together. I did it faster than you are supposed to so that I could hopefully move it if I needed, but it wasn't needed.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=132084&d=1595127324

Really happy with how it came out. Clean and smooth. I put the gauges in and put it in place in the car to get it figured out before starting the wiring. No need to deal with wires and such when I am trying to get it screwed in place. I went with "it's a feature not a bug" option and used finishing washers on the screws and just went straight through the front. If they can be seen with the body on then at least they will look like they are supposed to be there, plus I think they look great next to the bezels on the gauges.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=132082&d=1595126730

After getting it in and being thrilled with the results I pulled it off and now am beginning the wiring. I am reading several threads about that as the wiring is my most scary and least knowledgeable part. But the instructions are pretty good and the threads are even better. Thanks for all the help you are giving without even knowing it. Two years in now, I am guessing with my schedule it will take another two to finish, but I don't mind at all.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=132081&d=1595126728

[GoDadGo]

Back at it...at long last. Can't believe it has been nine months since my last update. I have been on the forum reading you guys, but between opening my third restaurant in November, then closing all three of my places in March, only to reopen a couple of them three months later it has been insane. I thought when I closed all my businesses and laid everyone off that I would have plenty of time to work on the car, but I probably worked harder during that time on the restaurants.

The restaurant business has been extremely hard hit across the country as you well know...I'm surprised to see you post anything much less have time to work on your car at the present time...Perseverance will win the game so don't let the bumps or in this case boulders in the road deter you...It just may take a little longer so don't give up.

Seeing you back online makes me want an Over The Top Donut & Black Coffee!

Hang In There!

[doddmoore]

The restaurant business has been extremely hard hit across the country as you well know...I'm surprised to see you post anything much less have time to work on your car at the present time...Perseverance will win the game so don't let the bumps or in this case boulders in the road deter you...It just may take a little longer so don't give up.

Seeing you back online makes me want an Over The Top Donut & Black Coffee!

Hang In There!

I have found that if I try to take a whole day off to work on the car I have lots of guilt. There is just so much else that I can be doing with my time these days especially. But if I take a lunch break for an hour each day it allows me to clear my head, work on the car, and just unwind for an hour. It has greatly improved my mental state at work and I’ve gotten stuff done on the car. It’s a win-win for me.

[doddmoore]

I worked on the heat and sound insulation for the footboxes and cockpit for the past few days. Man is it tedious. I knew from the beginning that I was going to do this so I made templates when I had the panels off.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=132709&d=1596112631

But it's been so long that not all of them are labeled so I had to go through a stack to find each one. PLUS now that the panels are riveted they are smaller on some edges and the same on others, so I took each template and matched it to where it was going, then I labeled them. I even labeled one backwards, which resulted in me cutting the insulation backwards, making it unusable. Ahh good times good times.
So taking my time, because really what choice do you have when doing this, I matched the templates and lined everything up. Then peeled the backing off the Thermo-tec and applied it. I used a roller to really get it in tight and down.
I went with Thermo-tec over some of the other options because of cost and ease of installation. I am obviously no expert and may have chosen wrong but I really ended up liking the stuff. It's easy to put in, easy to cut, not too expensive, and this product is one product for both heat AND sound.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=132710&d=1596112645

The end result was good. I can't test the heat yet but the sound is pretty impressive. I took a video of the before and after and the sound deadening is pretty cool. Coupled with the riveting and the silicone it should be a solid!
Lastly since I relocated my E-brake I had that hole in the sheet metal of the trans tunnel that I had to cover. I cut the absolute ugliest patch that you could ever cut and siliconed and riveted it in place, then covered it up with Thermo-tec so no one will ever see. ;-)

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=132711&d=1596112655

It looks in the picture like the bottom part of the hole is not filled but it's just a trick of the light. I had to make a second patch that I bent on a brake to cover the bottom. But like I said, no one will even see it so I am good to go.
Next I will do the driver's side, then the wiring for the dash, then it's time to get the engine and transmission in!

Oh one last thing, I set the seats and dash in just to see how they will look. I'm in love. The color is going to be a darker green and I think it will be kicking.

[jiriza84641]

You're build is coming out great! Keep it going!