Meindl Mk IV Build - Graduation

[PeteMeindl]

Hi everyone,

We are a family of four – Mom and Dad (Sarah and Pete) and our twin 16 year old boys (Jamie and Eric) – who are very excited to be starting a Mk IV build. We view this as the ultimate project for us as a family before the boys head off from home in a little over 2 years. We are beginners at this so we really value any and all advice you guys have for us at every point along the way. If you see something we’re doing that doesn’t seem right or make sense, please let us know! We feel lucky that so many of you are willing to take the time to give advice.

We all went to visit the Factory Five factory recently and placed our order. Given we are beginners, we wanted to run what we ordered by you all to see if you feel there’s anything we should or should not be getting. Our goal for the car is to have a great time building it together and then to have something fun to drive on the street now and then. It doesn’t need to be the fastest or best car – for us it’s more about just trying to see if we can get it all together and working and have something to be proud of.

One note - we’re hoping to register our car to drive on the street in Connecticut, so some of the things we’ve purchased are required for registration.

Here’s what we ordered (for anything that’s not mentioned here, we chose the base version):
- Mk IV Complete Kit
- Coyote Engine/TKO Transmission assembled
- Powder coating of chassis
- Coyote 3v headers
- Body cut outs
- 17 inch Halibrand style wheel/tire package
- Stainless steel bumpers
- Battery cutoff switch
- Rollbar grommet set
- Assembled side louver set
- Coyote install kit
- 11.65 inch rear brake set
- Standard 8.8 rear axle housing w/3-link

Things we’re considering adding to the order:
- Coyote power steering kit

If you guys have any advice or pointers, please let us know! We had a few general questions:
- Anything else we should be adding (or taking away) from our order given we are real beginners?
- Any tool recommendations beyond the list in the factory five manual?
- We’re currently building a chassis dolly using the plans from Chris Arella (Thanks, Chris!). Any thoughts on this?
o http://cobra.chrisarella.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Factory-Five-Roadster-MkIV-Chassis-Dolly-ChrisArella.pdf
- Any advice for receiving delivery if you live on a small street?
- Any other advice as we get started?

Thanks a lot! We’re looking forward to being a part of the community!

Pete, Sarah, Jamie, and Eric

[initiator]

Welcome and congratulations! It's been a fun time building with my son, although we're not as far along as hoped and he leaves for college in about three weeks.

Your build is nearly identical to mine. A few quick thoughts:
- Check the Breeze Automotive website tip for welding the banana bracket to the rear axle. I drove the axle out to a welder and he zipped it up in less than half an hour. I wouldn't be comfortable with the bracket just being bolted on.
- I added power steering (FFR version, previous generation) because I have experience with a manual steering car with very large tires - it's a real workout at parking lot speeds. My wife is interested in driving, so that will help her, too.
- The trunk is a lot smaller than you think it will be. I suggest looking at one of the various drop-trunk kits or make your own.
- I like the Breeze battery forward kit. Much less cable and easy routing.
- If you can afford it, the CNC double or triple (if you plan a hydraulic clutch) reservoir is a nice upgrade over the FF versions. Kind of wish I'd gone that route.
- Read lots of build threads, including EdwardB, Jazzman, wareaglescott, etc. Just about every problem you'll face has been worked through and solved with clear instructions and pictures. Any new problems and the forum will come to your rescue quickly.
- I replaced the FF fuel supply with the Breeze system, with the fuel pressure regulator placed near the gas tank and flex line running up to the engine. It's a tight, clean setup with no line bending skill needed. It also eliminates a number of joints, plastic, and rubber pieces in the engine bay which I wasn't fond of.
- If Cleco fasteners aren't mentioned in the build manual, you'll want to get maybe 50 1/4" and 20 3/16" fasteners, along with a wrench. Invaluable to keep Aluminum panels aligned while you drill holes.
- I waited to collect tools until they were needed in my build. Some of the popular tools (sheet metal brake, etc) I don't need. Your custom build will determine what you need.

Where are you located? A few more posts and you can edit your profile information. Having other builders close is a huge benefit.

Joe

[Fixit]

Welcome to the asylum! At least all the inmates here have the same disease!

I just took delivery of my kit (#9365) on July 2. (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?27544-The-40-Watt-Garage-9365-is-in-the-house!&p=330911&viewfull=1#post330911)

There's some tips/pointers about delivery in that post.

After inventory, I got started on the build - separating & storing the body (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?27544-The-40-Watt-Garage-9365-is-in-the-house!&p=331116&viewfull=1#post331116)

[cv2065]

Welcome to the club! Hopefully you are picking up your kit and saving some cash. Stewart is on my aggravation list at this point, as I have yet to receive mine...but I'm sure we'll get there....

[Jeff Kleiner]

Congrats!

You don't know it but trust me, you want power steering (not because the car is hard to steer but because in the end it will drive sooooo much better) ;)

Jeff

[PeteMeindl]

Thanks a lot for the good tips, Joe! We'll need to check out Breeze - sounds like they have a lot of good stuff. I'll get the cleco fasteners you mentioned too - good advice! We're in the southwestern portion of connecticut, unfortunately pretty far from washington (which is one of my favorite places, by the way!)... Any builders out there in connecticut or southeastern ny state? Thanks, again, Joe.
Pete

[PeteMeindl]

Thanks for the deliver tips, John. And thanks Jeff, too - sounds like it's worth it to pay for the power steering.

[Gobozo]

PeteMeindi, I live in the same area. I'd love to help if you need a hand.

I've introduced the idea of the Mk4 to my wife who surprisingly was interested. So in a few years (maybe 25th Anniversary edition); after the remodel, we will have another baby in the garage. I'm struggling with what engine and colors; the former clearly being the most critical up front. What about CT leads you to choose the coyote motor? I thought scrounging up a 66 289 would give me the best chance of registration for 66 model.

[Yama-Bro]

Congrats, welcome to the club!

[PeteMeindl]

Thanks, Gobozo! Congrats on your growing family. That's really nice of you to offer to help out - we will need the help so really happy to have you offer it. Thank you! Let's touch base after we get our kit - hopefully that will happen by mid to end of august. Where do you live?

In terms of why we chose the coyote and how it helps with registration, we wanted to go with a new engine and the coyote has all the features CT requires for registration. I'm not sure but i think your plan would also work - I believe CT registration requirements are based on the year of engine manufacture. So, for instance, i couldn't have a new engine without fuel injection, but i think if you have a 66, then it might be ok to not have FI.

Thanks!

[Mark Eaton]

Pete, Welcome in, you're going to have a blast! It sounds like your boys are old enough to help without getting too bored. Its challenging at times for my 12 and 14yo. I am 11 months into my build and we are having a great time. Things I would do differently: I would have started doing my own powder coating from the get go. I recently purchased an old oven and have started powder coating. There are multiple parts on the car which need to be protected with paint or powder coating. Read about it, its pretty simple and I think better than paint. Also, I would have purchased the blank dash because I have decided I want to customize the instrument layout. I might have held off on ordering the FFR wheels. Overall I am happy with the look but have been thinking about buying a second set for different look.

Lastly here are a couple of items that will help immensely when you do inventory.

https://www.amazon.com/Bolt-Thread-Checker-Inch-Metric/dp/B003FJW0GK/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1532561298&sr=8-3&keywords=bolt+measuring+tool&dpID=51Lp-8Ge46L&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch

https://www.amazon.com/Stainlesstown-Bolt-Screw-Thread-Gauge/dp/B00XUU0UMK/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1532561298&sr=8-5&keywords=bolt+measuring+tool

[PeteMeindl]

Hi Mark, Thanks a lot! Wow - doing your own powder coating is impressive! Thanks for the tips and the recommendation on the thread gauge & checker.

Great build thread, too!

[Gobozo]

Thanks, Gobozo! Congrats on your growing family. That's really nice of you to offer to help out - we will need the help so really happy to have you offer it. Thank you! Let's touch base after we get our kit - hopefully that will happen by mid to end of august. Where do you live?

In terms of why we chose the coyote and how it helps with registration, we wanted to go with a new engine and the coyote has all the features CT requires for registration. I'm not sure but i think your plan would also work - I believe CT registration requirements are based on the year of engine manufacture. So, for instance, i couldn't have a new engine without fuel injection, but i think if you have a 66, then it might be ok to not have FI.

Thanks!

I'm in Ridgefield. Since our garage is so variable with heat, cold and humidity i was thinking of dong the mock ups in my very cozy basement shop. Can anyone tell me the maximum width of the chassis.

[PeteMeindl]

We've been buying tools and building up some infrastructure in anticipation of the arrival of the car in the next couple weeks. Here's our first pic - our chassis dolly.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=91034&d=1533867804

Thank you to David Hodgkins for the clear instructions on how to embed photos in a build thread!

[cv2065]

We've been buying tools and building up some infrastructure in anticipation of the arrival of the car in the next couple weeks. Here's our first pic - our chassis dolly.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=91034&d=1533867804

Thank you to David Hodgkins for the clear instructions on how to embed photos in a build thread!

Be mindful with this dolly design. I have the exact same thing and when the wheels turn a certain way outside with the weight on them, it wants to collapse on the rear (at least mine did), as that is where the weight is. Either its a common design flaw or I absolutely sucked at wood shop. Probably is the latter, but easy remedy is to take a 2x4 and attach from front to back on the side. Only do one side as it keeps you from getting under the dolly.

[PeteMeindl]

Thanks, CV2065! I hadn't heard about this so thanks a lot for bringing it up. Just so i understand it correctly, I think you're saying to connect a 2x4 from the end of one 4x4 to the other 4x4 along the side of the dolly - is that right? Could you send a picture of your dolly? Anyone else have any improvements or suggestions on the dolly? Thanks a lot, guys - certainly want to get the infrastructure right so there aren't any safety issues. Thanks!

[cv2065]

Thanks, CV2065! I hadn't heard about this so thanks a lot for bringing it up. Just so i understand it correctly, I think you're saying to connect a 2x4 from the end of one 4x4 to the other 4x4 along the side of the dolly - is that right?

Yep, that is correct! Keeps the whole alignment straight.

[Higgybulin]

We've been buying tools and building up some infrastructure in anticipation of the arrival of the car in the next couple weeks. Here's our first pic - our chassis dolly.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=91034&d=1533867804

Thank you to David Hodgkins for the clear instructions on how to embed photos in a build thread!

What's the basic outside dimensions of your frame dolly?
Higgy

[PeteMeindl]

Hi Higgy,
I used the dolly plans from Chris Arella (thank you, Chris!) with the link below:
http://cobra.chrisarella.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Factory-Five-Roadster-MkIV-Chassis-Dolly-ChrisArella.pdf
The dimensions are 60 by 44 inches.
Pete

[PeteMeindl]

Hope everyone is continuing to enjoy their summer. Quick update: Factory Five has completed our kit and it's waiting for delivery. From what i hear, the truck is in california now and we're on the next load after they get back to massachusetts. So maybe 1-2 weeks and hopefully we'll have our car! In the mean time, we're finishing up some prep. Here's our body buck. We're still deciding where to store the body but it won't be in the garage.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=91560&d=1534622820

And here's our garage. It's not much compared to most of you guys but hopefully it'll work out fine. By the way, CV2065, you can see the side addition to the chassis dolly here that you recommended - thank you! In the picture is the fifth member of our crew, our dog Kona.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=91561&d=1534622839

One quick question for you guys. Our chassis dolly is 5 ft long - when the chassis arrives, where would you center the chassis on the dolly given the various weight distributions that we'll have over time? Thanks for all of your advice!

[SSNK4US]

Congratulations Pete!!! And welcome to the family! We just got ours on July 31.
Still in inventory stage here... life interuptus lol But my wife’s getting a crash course in car parts
on our dining room table. I really like Cris’s chassis dolly and his plans and how simple and nice looking
it is. Almost made one just like it. But I’m old, tall, and bad knees so I needed something taller. Lol
Stewart showed up, on time, on schedule and couldn’t have went smoother!
Just roll your dolly out behind the trailer, he swings it out on the crane and drops it down on your dolly.
Then just roll it on into your garage.
Have fun with your build. Everybody out here is a wealth of knowledge and is more than willing to help you.
Just remember there is no such thing as a stupid question!!!

Kurt

[Jazzman]

Congrats!

You don't know it but trust me, you want power steering (not because the car is hard to steer but because in the end it will drive sooooo much better) ;)

Jeff

Trust him, he's right!!

Welcome to the fun. I am excited for you to get to build it as a family. Enjoy the build!

[PeteMeindl]

Thanks, Kurt! It's great how welcoming everyone is. I'll need the help way more than most!

[PeteMeindl]

Thanks, Jazzman! We are going with your and Jeff's advice - we ordered the power steering. Thanks! What do you think about power brakes? Something that's worthwhile, too?

[Jazzman]

Thanks, Jazzman! We are going with your and Jeff's advice - we ordered the power steering. Thanks! What do you think about power brakes? Something that's worthwhile, too?

The jury is still out on that. The general consensus seems to be that power brakes are not worth the money and effort. I am still dialing in my brakes so I am not sure yet. I am told that once you get the balance right, power isn't really necessary. For the time being I am going to to go with the consensus and stay with my non-powered brakes. At least that is something that I can do later if I choose to. Just lift the FlipTop, and I have full access to that area! :cool:

[PeteMeindl]

Ha! :) Ahhhhh, if only we all had a FlipTop!

[Jazzman]

Ha! :) Ahhhhh, if only we all had a FlipTop!

AH, But you can! It's a movement! Go ahead, join the every growing throng! Resistance is futile!!! :cool:

[gkp200]

Pete,

My kit will probably on the same truck. My kit finished on 8/18 and is awaiting the truck from Stewarts that is supposed to get to FFR on Friday 8/24. They mentioned a delivery in CT and 4 in NY, then 1 in MD and then mine in VA. So you should have your delivery next week.

Gary

[PeteMeindl]

Your work on the FlipTop is something for me to aspire to, that's for sure! I'll need your advice just to learn how to crawl, Jazzman, before i can learn to run! :)

[PeteMeindl]

Thanks, Gary! That's good to hear.

[PeteMeindl]

The car arrived this week! Warren, the driver, was super helpful and a real professional at this. We're all excited here to dive into the inventory process and get going on building!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=92871&d=1536426095

The backorder list isn't too long so that's good news, too. One thing we learned was that the castors on the coyote engine stand aren't really strong enough to handle rolling down the street so i'd try to avoid doing that if i could.

Off to inventory!! :)

[slpro1207]

Inventory is super important. Check everything. I found it helpful to write with a sharpie on the bags of parts where they were used. Saved having to look up all of the numbers later in the build. Congratulations and good luck with your build.

[BadAsp427]

During your Inventory you will find that at times they will put a part that is suppose to be in on box, into another box and then just annotate it on the list that it is in the alternate box. When I did mine, I actually moved the part to the correct box and then changed it on the inventory list to reflect. Usually those parts are all going to be used together, so it is nice to have them together when needed. Welcome to the madness... I'm loving every minute...

One other thing, I've kept everything in the box as indicated. I marked the end of my boxes with the numbers and a summary list of what is in it. Oh, and when the box is done, get rid of it. You will really enjoy putting the empty boxes away. In my case, I have a storage area that all the empty boxes are filling up.

[PeteMeindl]

Thanks, slpro and BadAsp - we are following your advice and labeling the bags and moving parts from the misc box to the one they are supposed to be in. Thanks for the tips, guys!

[PeteMeindl]

I think we now have one of the best pieces of art i've seen in a living room in quite some time!
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=92939&d=1536530682

Inventory is almost done and has gone well - thanks for the pointers, guys. We're just trying to iron out the coyote engine parts from ford as i think we might be missing a page or two of the packing list (and it's been a little harder for us to tell what the parts are there and whether they've already been installed in the engine...). But hopefully we will figure that out shortly.

Here's the current state of car. Not fully disassembled yet but on our way.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=92938&d=1536530682

[GoDadGo]

Pete,

For 32 years my wife has put up with me having car parts stored under our bed, under the stairs, in our living room, but you my friend are my hero!
Mrs. Go-Dad Saw Your Pic & Agrees That Having The Body In The Living Room Takes The Cake!

Steve

[Higgybulin]

That's awesome!!!!!!

[BadAsp427]

That is Awesome... I know that because I do not have photos I can not prove it, but I actually painted the body panels of my son's first race car in my family room, true story. Yeah, that was a sight to see...

93002

Hey, I did not want to get paint all over my garage...

[cv2065]

I was able to get my son's derby car in the house from Boy Scouts, but no way would that happen right there. You sir are a master negotiator!

[PeteMeindl]

Ha! Thanks, guys. All the credit goes to my wife, Sarah, who's working with me & our sons on the build. We were trying to figure out where to store the body - our garage is too small to hold it with space to build the car. So we were thinking of storing it outside but then Sarah said, we use our living room barely even once a year so why don't we put it there? And so there it is! :)

[BadAsp427]

I think you should set the seats in the appropriate position, then get some support across the hood area and set up a 45" tv and have a "drive-in" movie night now and then... Just no eating or drinking in the roadster...

[PeteMeindl]

Ha! I love it. The 'drive in' will be open this weekend! :)

[Duck62]

I think we now have one of the best pieces of art i've seen in a living room in quite some time!
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=92939&d=1536530682

Inventory is almost done and has gone well - thanks for the pointers, guys. We're just trying to iron out the coyote engine parts from ford as i think we might be missing a page or two of the packing list (and it's been a little harder for us to tell what the parts are there and whether they've already been installed in the engine...). But hopefully we will figure that out shortly.

Here's the current state of car. Not fully disassembled yet but on our way.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=92938&d=1536530682

Now that is a mans man. I would be sleeping beside it if I evern tried that!

[Fixit]

So we were thinking of storing it outside but then Sarah said, we use our living room barely even once a year so why don't we put it there? And so there it is! :)

Give that incredible gal a big 'ol smootch for all of us!

[Mark Eaton]

You definitely married the right girl

[PeteMeindl]

Sarah says thanks for the compliments! We are basically finished with inventory and have taken all the panels off the car. Here's how things look at time 0.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=94027&d=1537733086
Now time to start building! We're all excited.

[Kool AC]

Congratulations, exiting times. Just curious, what is in the large Ford Performance box at the rear of the frame?

[PeteMeindl]

Hi Kool AC, the Ford Performance box holds a bunch of engine accessaries that come with the Coyote package from factory five. Control pack, some sensors, hoses, etc...

[PeteMeindl]

Today we drilled the F panels, cleaned them off with acetone, sharkhided (or sharkhid?) them, drilled the chassis and learned to rivet them on the chassis. Felt great to get them on the car! That sharkhide is pretty strong stuff...

Here's the left panel.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=94057&d=1537752927
And here's the right.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=94056&d=1537752909

[SSNK4US]

O. M. G. !

[Yama-Bro]

You have a great start Pete!

It looks like Factory Five added the cutout at the top of the elephant ear tabs that Edward B suggests adding in his build thread. Some one is listening at FFR. :D

[PeteMeindl]

Thanks, Yama-Bro! I'm really enjoying your build thread, by the way - thanks for the thorough documentation as I'm learning a lot from it!

[Yama-Bro]

Thanks, Yama-Bro! I'm really enjoying your build thread, by the way - thanks for the thorough documentation as I'm learning a lot from it!

Thanks! Glad to hear that you are getting some use from it. ;)

[PeteMeindl]

Hi guys,
Our next step is installing the front lower control arms. Like i've noticed in a number of build threads, one of the brackets on the chassis that holds the lower control arm is a little too tight for the arm to fit in. From the threads, it sounds like the best thing to do is just bend the bracket out a little bit. What's the best way to do this in a controlled manner? Thanks for your helpful advice! And remember, you can safely assume i know nothing and won't be insulted by any overly simplistic answers. Thanks again for your help! :)
Pete

[BadAsp427]

Hi guys,
Our next step is installing the front lower control arms. Like i've noticed in a number of build threads, one of the brackets on the chassis that holds the lower control arm is a little too tight for the arm to fit in. From the threads, it sounds like the best thing to do is just bend the bracket out a little bit. What's the best way to do this in a controlled manner? Thanks for your helpful advice! And remember, you can safely assume i know nothing and won't be insulted by any overly simplistic answers. Thanks again for your help! :)
Pete

Probably one of the easiest is a short piece of threaded rod with a couple nuts on the inside and then just thread them outwards to the desired width. Of course I would suggest th use of some washers and a little lubrication to help prevent tearing up the powder coat too much. (wd40/30w, etc)

[Fixit]

Another quick method is a BIG adjustable wrench. Lay some protective tape on the jaws, close around the frame tab, and give a little "tweak".

[cv2065]

Hi guys,
Our next step is installing the front lower control arms. Like i've noticed in a number of build threads, one of the brackets on the chassis that holds the lower control arm is a little too tight for the arm to fit in. From the threads, it sounds like the best thing to do is just bend the bracket out a little bit. What's the best way to do this in a controlled manner? Thanks for your helpful advice! And remember, you can safely assume i know nothing and won't be insulted by any overly simplistic answers. Thanks again for your help! :)
Pete

Probably won’t be the last. I had to spread mine out on just about every fitting. No big deal. As has been said. Make yourself a spreader with threaded rod, some nuts (no nylocks) and some hardened washers (grade 8). Keep it handy as you’ll most likely need it again .

[Yama-Bro]

I did what fixit described. It worked perfect. Just don't get crazy with the bending.

While you in this phase, I'd suggest putting some pre-lube on your bushings before doing the final assembly. Just to prevent squeaks when you start driving it. I didn't, wish I would have. Hopefully, the grease zerks will do what they are supposed to on mine.

[initiator]

I think I used 5/8" threaded rod on my spreader.

[PeteMeindl]

Thanks a lot, guys - that's really helpful and clear. I appreciate it!

[steveseymore]

For the control arms, I found that the real issue on mine was the bushing sleeve was slightly long. Even with the tabs bent outward they would only go 8/10ths of the way in. I bent the tabs back parallel and used by bench sander to take a slight amount off the bushing until it was just snug enough to be tapped in. I then put them back in the arms and tapped in to place. Each one fit quite snug without the fighting. I also found you may need to clean the inside of the mounting tabs as there was an occasional weld splatter on the inside that the bushings would get hung up on during install.

[PeteMeindl]

Another naive question - does anyone have a recommendation for a grease gun and type of grease to use for all the grease fittings around the car? Yama-Bro, you mentioned a pre lube that would go on the portions of the control arms touching the brackets - any recommendations there?

Thanks a lot, guys!

[Boydster]

Pre-lube should be the same thing you'll be greasing it with... some greases dont play well with others. I use Royal Purple Ultra Performance Synthetic grease. Great for everything.

[cv2065]

I second what Boyd said on the grease. I use the Royal Purple as well. I use a garden variety grease gun with flexible hose. Just remember that some of the grease gun tips will lock on to the grease fitting, and you’ll want to gently rock the grease gun tip back and forth to remove it from the fitting. Don’t get aggravated and pull on it or you could damage the fitting itself. Usually loosens up after a few uses.

[PeteMeindl]

Thanks a lot, Boyd and CV - i'll get some royal purple and we'll be good to go!

[PeteMeindl]

Hi guys! Today, we were able to install the front lower control arms. We haven't torqued them up yet but i think the installation went ok, thanks to all of your help. We used one washer on the rear bracket on each side. Special thanks to BadAsp, Fixit, CV, Yama-Bro and Initiator for the advice on how to make a spreader for the brackets. I needed this on the front left bracket and your ideas worked like a charm. Also, the bolts wouldn't fit through the bracket but a little filing away of the powder coating inside the hole, as many of you have suggested, quickly solved that problem. Here's a picture of one arm. Thanks for the help, guys!
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=94470&d=1538357941

[initiator]

Getting there, buddy! Make a few more steps like this and all of a sudden you'll look at it and realize it's starting to look like a car!

[PeteMeindl]

Just a quick update - got the front upper control arms reassembled this weekend per some great ideas from Yama-Bro, and got the ball joints in there. It definitely took some force on them while they were in the vice! I wasn't sure we were really going to get them in there but we eventually did. Also installed the grease inserts.

Here's how they look - i think they are correctly configured but if you guys see anything that's wrong, please let me know - Thanks!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=94793&d=1538967928
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=94794&d=1538967938

[PeteMeindl]

This week we've been working on assembling the front suspension. We attached the upper control arms, adjusted them to approximately the size mentioned in the manual, attached the spindles, and then the steering arms. We assembled the shocks with the springs and all but we didn't install them as it turns out we don't have the snap ring and it looked like it'd be a lot easier to deal with that while the shocks were off rather than on. So we'll be on hold for the shocks til we get those.

We were able to get grease in all the grease inserts without exploding grease all over us - so a much better outcome than i had expected. We torqued down the bolts for the lower control arms to 110 ft lbs. We were then torquing down the bolts that connect the upper control arms to the frame. One bolt went fine but the second just kept turning and turning, without that much pressure. We tried to back it out to see what might be going on but it just kept spinning. So i guess maybe we stripped that somehow?

A couple questions for you guys
- Any thoughts on the best way to get that nut/bolt off? I know this is a super novice question...
- Anything we probably did that created this problem that we should avoid doing in the future?
- When getting a new bolt & nut to replace this one, do you guys generally recommend buying them from factory five (i'm not sure if they sell small little pieces of hardware like this) or do you just head to home depot/similar place and get a similar sized nut & bolt?

Here's how things look right now on the right side:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=95597&d=1539550601
And on the left:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=95598&d=1539550621

Please let us know if you guys see anything that is wrong. I kept worrying about how on the upper control arms, there's a bolt in front of the ball joint on one side of the car and a bolt behind the ball joint on the other side of the car. But from what i can tell, maybe this is the way it's supposed to be? Thanks again!

[edwardb]

Definitely sounds like your UCA mounting bolt is stripped. Those are pretty stout and should be able to handle the 100-110 ft lbs the manual describes. Sure your torque wrench is accurate? Otherwise, maybe one of the pieces is defective. I don't have any magic suggestions to get it off it it spins without the nut moving. Maybe grab the head of the bolt with some vicegrips and pull as you're turning it? You could unbolt the pivots on the control arm and get it out of the way so you have more leverage. Once there's a little separation, you could probably get a pry bar or screwdriver tip under the bolt or the nut and apply pressure as you're turning. Just be careful and don't gouge things up. Once it's apart, you can look at the parts and maybe see what they look like and if something failed. I'd call Factory Five and get replacements, explaining what you did and what you found. They will sell you basically anything that's in your kit. But if the part is defective, they should replace it without a charge.

Very unlikely you'd find those specialized bolts at Home Depot. For the most part, the entire suspension has hardware that isn't real common, e.g. some is metric, flange heads, deformed lock nuts, large sizes, long lengths, etc. To be honest, I stay away from the big box stores for hardware on these builds. Some of it might be OK, and I know people use it. But I find the quality not that great. Our local Ace Hardware has a whole row of hardware that's all from Hillman. In general, I find the quality pretty decent. Better than the local HD or Menards, the two big box stores that are closest to me. If it's specialized, I generally order from McMaster. I haven't gotten a bad part from them. Some guys hook up with their local industrial suppliers, like Fastenal. Haven't tried that, but another option.

From what I can see, your suspension is assembled properly. Totally normal that the upper control arm has the fixed part in the front on one side and on the back on the other. It works. And you're not the first or probably the last to ask about that.

[Fixit]

I'm going to throw out there that you've got the wrong nut on the UCA mounting bolt... It would take some serious effort to strip a bolt/nut of that size - and using hand-tools you're not going to strip or snap one unless it's obviously defective.

I've had many a time where a metric or fractional nut will "appear" to thread on just fine and work, until you try to apply some torque. They're just close enough to spin on, but...

Double check yourself on the fastener.

As far as the UCA assembly (welded/fixed point vs. bolted point) the arms are welded up without Left or Right in mind. It really doesn't matter, as it's just geometry when they're installed. You crank the adjuster sleeves and they'll move the pivot point in the same way - if the fixed point is fore or aft.

[PeteMeindl]

Thanks a lot, EdwardB and John! I'll try your suggestion to get the nut off and see what might be going on. Thanks for the good advice in terms of where to get hardware, too - i'll go with ff or mcmaster then.

Good idea to check the calibration on the torque wrench - i didn't know how to do that but just found a good video showing how to and it seems pretty straightforward. So i'll make sure that's ok too. And John, i'll check on whether i had the correct nut - I thought it was the right one but i certainly could have made a mistake. It wouldn't be the first and it won't be my last! :) Thanks for the once-over too on taking a look at the suspension.

We may not be back at work on the car until next weekend but i'll let you guys know what we find out. Thanks again for the helpful advice! Have a good week!

[Mark Eaton]

Be careful with those upper control arms and don't confuse the pivot shaft lock nut with the bolt that hold the arm to the frame!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?25895-Eaton-s-Mk4-9130-Southern-Oregon-Build-Thread&p=308193&viewfull=1#post308193

[edwardb]

I'm going to throw out there that you've got the wrong nut on the UCA mounting bolt...

That's a very good possibility and one I didn't think of.

[miller7448]

Great progress! Will it be possible to insert the shocks with the spindle installed of will some disassembly be required? I'm at about the same point on the fronts but was waiting for the shocks to arrive before installing the spindles.

[edwardb]

Great progress! Will it be possible to insert the shocks with the spindle installed of will some disassembly be required? I'm at about the same point on the fronts but was waiting for the shocks to arrive before installing the spindles.

There's no issue installing the coilovers into a fully assembled suspension. Front or back. Would be an ongoing maintenance challenge if it weren't possible.

[PeteMeindl]

This weekend - and i know this doesn't sound like big leaps forward - our main piece of progress was finally getting that stripped bolt/nut off of the front upper control arm. We started off by removing most of the front upper control arm triangle so we could get better access to the bolt. Then we tried for a while to pull the nut away from the bolt with a pair of vice grips to get the nut on some of the threads that are in better shape while at the same time we were ratcheting the bolt. We just couldn't get it to break out of the stripped area, unfortunately. We then started trying to drill through the nut and to basically try to cut through it to get it off. During this process, one of my sons found a tool I'd never heard of - a nut splitter. We tried that and it worked like a charm, splitting the nut and allowing us to get it off.

Here's the bolt. Note you can see the area where it's stripped:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=95954&d=1540160384
Here's the nut. The threads seem to be in a little better shape than the bolt:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=95955&d=1540160400
Here's the nut splitter, just in case somebody hasn't seen one before (as i hadn't until this weekend). Great tool!
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=95956&d=1540160417

Here are some thoughts:
- Taking Paul's advice (thank you!), we've ordered a new bolt and nut from factory five rather than trying to find a substitute locally.
- One good suggestion for the cause of this stripping was that we used the wrong nut. We went back and looked at all the nuts that came in the bag for the front suspension, and it really seems like the nuts we used are the ones that seem to fit these bolts the best. I could be wrong but i think they're ok. Is there a good way to test to confirm that they are right?
- Once we get the replacement from factory five, we'll be able to check whether the nuts match, which could also be a good check for us.
- One thing we haven't done yet is check the calibration of our torque wrenches, which is also a good idea. I haven't figured out just yet how to rig up something to hold 100 lbs off of the horizontal handle of the torque wrench to check the calibration. But i have some ideas i'll try next weekend and hopefully something will work.

Thanks, everyone, for all of the help and advice. Hope you all had a good weekend!

[initiator]

In case you didn't know, torque is measured in lb-ft, that is pounds of force x feet of distance from the bolt center to where the force is applied. If you applied 50 lbs of force at 2 feet away from the bolt center, you'd be applying 100 lb-ft (50 x 2) of torque. A fish pull spring gauge could be used for a rough estimate of force.

I've never done a manual calibration check with weights and such, but I do have a beam-style torque wrench that I consider my reference. To check my click-type wrench, I'll torque a bolt with the beam-style one, then set the click-type to to the same torque and try to tighten the bolt. If it clicks right about where the bolt starts to move, then I know they're pretty close.

A beam-style torque wrench is less prone to losing its calibration, but you can still screw it up by dropping it, piling things on top of it, etc.

[Pat427]

What kind of rivets are those that you used to attach the F panel to the frame?

[PeteMeindl]

In case you didn't know, torque is measured in lb-ft, that is pounds of force x feet of distance from the bolt center to where the force is applied. If you applied 50 lbs of force at 2 feet away from the bolt center, you'd be applying 100 lb-ft (50 x 2) of torque. A fish pull spring gauge could be used for a rough estimate of force.

I've never done a manual calibration check with weights and such, but I do have a beam-style torque wrench that I consider my reference. To check my click-type wrench, I'll torque a bolt with the beam-style one, then set the click-type to to the same torque and try to tighten the bolt. If it clicks right about where the bolt starts to move, then I know they're pretty close.

A beam-style torque wrench is less prone to losing its calibration, but you can still screw it up by dropping it, piling things on top of it, etc.

Thanks, Initiator! Good comments. Yeah, despite having a year of physics in college, I never quite understood what a foot pound of torque really meant until i started trying to figure out how to calibrate this torque wrench. It's nice when things actually come together and make sense 30 years later! What i was thinking of trying to do was put the wrench on a lug nut and have the wrench be horizontal to the ground. Then i'd rig up something to hold some weight on the handle and add weight until it clicks. And adjust the wrench such that it clicks around the value of the distance times the weight. I don't have too much more than a foot of length so i need a lot of weight and that's where i'm trying to figure out how to hold it all. Thanks!

[PeteMeindl]

What kind of rivets are those that you used to attach the F panel to the frame?

Hi MKN, I just used the standard factory five rivets that come with the car. Nothing fancy at all!

[edwardb]

Short of an actual official calibration lab, overkill in our builds IMO, I'd check your torque wrench against another known good torque wrench. Even though the physics can be calculated, I personally wouldn't try to calculate and use weights, etc. Just not something you want to get wrong. Another possibility is a device like this one that I've found are reasonably accurate and can be used to check your torque wrench(s). You clamp one end in a vise and put your torque wrench in the other for a good sanity check. I have a different brand, but this one from H-F is very similar and not very expensive: https://www.harborfreight.com/12-in-drive-digital-torque-adapter-63917.html. Also can be used to convert a regular wrench into a torque wrench.

[Boydster]

I ran into some issues with some of the steel locking nuts that came with the kit. Some seemed to be over-crimped, making them almost impossible to use. I replaced one of the front suspension bolts & nuts after the nut required almost 60 ft/lbs to simply run down the bolt. Before checking it, I was having to use 1/2" drive ratchet and propping my feet up to be able to pull it.

That may be what happened to yours.

[initiator]

Another possibility is a device like this one that I've found are reasonably accurate and can be used to check your torque wrench(s). You clamp one end in a vise and put your torque wrench in the other for a good sanity check. I have a different brand, but this one from H-F is very similar and not very expensive: https://www.harborfreight.com/12-in-drive-digital-torque-adapter-63917.html. Also can be used to convert a regular wrench into a torque wrench.

That's a slick tool - thanks for the reference. May have to swing by HF on the way home today.

[PeteMeindl]

Short of an actual official calibration lab, overkill in our builds IMO, I'd check your torque wrench against another known good torque wrench. Even though the physics can be calculated, I personally wouldn't try to calculate and use weights, etc. Just not something you want to get wrong. Another possibility is a device like this one that I've found are reasonably accurate and can be used to check your torque wrench(s). You clamp one end in a vise and put your torque wrench in the other for a good sanity check. I have a different brand, but this one from H-F is very similar and not very expensive: https://www.harborfreight.com/12-in-drive-digital-torque-adapter-63917.html. Also can be used to convert a regular wrench into a torque wrench.

Thank you, Paul! That's great to know and now i won't be trying to rig up that manual torque calibrator anymore - glad to cross that off of my list of to dos! :) I'll go ahead and buy that torque adapter you mentioned - thanks for the good suggestions, as always!

[PeteMeindl]

I ran into some issues with some of the steel locking nuts that came with the kit. Some seemed to be over-crimped, making them almost impossible to use. I replaced one of the front suspension bolts & nuts after the nut required almost 60 ft/lbs to simply run down the bolt. Before checking it, I was having to use 1/2" drive ratchet and propping my feet up to be able to pull it.

That may be what happened to yours.

Thanks, Boyd. Yeah, that sounds similar to what was happening to me. Did you get your replacement bolts & nuts from factory five? A pair is on its way from them now so hopefully that one will go on without any issues. Thanks, again!

[doddmoore]

Hey there! Just finding your build. Good luck, congrats, subscribed and all the other things we say. Just looking forward to following along. I won't be of much help as I'm a total noob, but I love watching these go together.

[PeteMeindl]

Hey there! Just finding your build. Good luck, congrats, subscribed and all the other things we say. Just looking forward to following along. I won't be of much help as I'm a total noob, but I love watching these go together.

Thanks, Mitchell! Actually, you are helping - I've been following your build thread and your detail is really helpful to me. Thank you!

[PeteMeindl]

Just got the replacement nut & bolt from factory five today for attaching the front upper control arms. They seem to match the ones I was using before so that's a good sign. One quick complete beginner question: if i try to just spin these nuts onto the bolts with my fingers, they run into a good amount of resistance after a few turns. I think this is completely to be expected (and i think that's part of being a lock nut, right?) but i just wanted to confirm that I should be seeing this sort of resistance. Given the bolt stripping i did last time when i encountered resistance, i just want to make sure. So this is ok, right, and it's not a sign of a mismatched nut & bolt? Again, sorry for the naive question... Thanks, guys!

[cv2065]

Just got the replacement nut & bolt from factory five today for attaching the front upper control arms. They seem to match the ones I was using before so that's a good sign. One quick complete beginner question: if i try to just spin these nuts onto the bolts with my fingers, they run into a good amount of resistance after a few turns. I think this is completely to be expected (and i think that's part of being a lock nut, right?) but i just wanted to confirm that I should be seeing this sort of resistance. Given the bolt stripping i did last time when i encountered resistance, i just want to make sure. So this is ok, right, and it's not a sign of a mismatched nut & bolt? Again, sorry for the naive question... Thanks, guys!

If you look at the nuts closely from the front side, you can see that they are not a perfect circle and kind of oblong. They should thread on correctly from the start, but then will tighten up and need a wrench to continue as the bolt hits that imperfect circle. Just be sure that they are threaded correctly from the get go.

[edwardb]

Just got the replacement nut & bolt from factory five today for attaching the front upper control arms. They seem to match the ones I was using before so that's a good sign. One quick complete beginner question: if i try to just spin these nuts onto the bolts with my fingers, they run into a good amount of resistance after a few turns. I think this is completely to be expected (and i think that's part of being a lock nut, right?) but i just wanted to confirm that I should be seeing this sort of resistance. Given the bolt stripping i did last time when i encountered resistance, i just want to make sure. So this is ok, right, and it's not a sign of a mismatched nut & bolt? Again, sorry for the naive question... Thanks, guys!

Those are called distorted-thread locknuts. What you're describing is how they work. They hold stronger than a nylon insert lock nut. They are intended to be one-time use.

[PeteMeindl]

Thanks a lot, CV and Paul! That sounds great and makes sense. I'll let you know how progress goes this weekend - Hope you guys have a good one!

[PeteMeindl]

Today we made some good progress on the front suspension and have two questions about next steps. First off, we torqued the new nut&bolt that factory five sent us that holds the upper control arm onto the frame and it worked fine - so no repeat of the bolt stripping incident of last time, which is great news. The right side, which we hadn't torqued before, also went on just fine. We then torqued the pivot bolts on the upper control arms, the castle bolts holding the spindles, and the steering arms. All went on well.

Then we added the shocks. Our spacers were a little too wide to fit but with some sanding, we got them down to the right size and so now the shocks are installed. We haven't torqued them yet as i just wanted to post the pictures and see if we did anything that looks wrong. Please let me know if you see anything - thank you for taking a look!

Here are 2 views of the left front suspension as it currently stands:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=96441&d=1540672459

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=96442&d=1540672470

And here are 2 views of right front suspension:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=96443&d=1540672482

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=96444&d=1540672492

It's great having a family working on this as it seems that on almost everyone step I wonder how you can do this without at least four hands!

We also started on the front brakes, just beginning their assembly here:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=96440&d=1540672441

Again, let me know if anything looks wrong. Thanks!

We have 2 things we ran into today that are our next hurdles.
1) We tried to put the hubs on the spindles but they didn't seem to go on more than 1 millimeter, even with some light tapping as the manual suggests. Any suggestions for how to get these on? Is it ok to put some grease on the spindle? I've read that some people freeze the spindle and heat up the hub but i also read that heating up your hub is bad for the bearings. What's your advice as to how to approach getting the hubs on?
2) In working on the brakes, the instructions say to grease the slide pins with the supplied grease. We didn't receive any grease. What sort of grease do you guys recommend we use for the slide pins?

Thanks a lot for your advice - we couldn't do this without you. Enjoy your weekend!

[edwardb]

Pictures of your assembly look OK from what I can tell. Regarding the hubs onto the front spindles, not unusual for them to be a very close fit. Also necessary to have them dead straight onto the spindle to slide on. Make sure you don't have any burrs on the end of the spindle or the inside of the hub. If all looks clean, it's OK to take a length of emery cloth and polish around the spindle a little to get just a little more clearance. A little grease won't hurt anything, but isn't going to help if you're at zero clearance. I've never had to freeze or heat anything to get them on.

[Fixit]

Another suggestion...
If you didn't smear some chassis grease or anti-seize into the threads of the upper control arm adjuster sleeves, take it apart and do it now. You and your future alignment guy will thank you later.

(I have the exact same style arms on my '65 El Camino and learned the hard way. With the weight on the suspension I could barely turn the sleeves with a BIG wrench. Granted the Elky is twice the weight of the Roadster, but I had to take it all apart and lube the sleeves.)

Linkage (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?27544-The-40-Watt-Garage-9365&p=333508&viewfull=1#post333508)

[PeteMeindl]

Pictures of your assembly look OK from what I can tell. Regarding the hubs onto the front spindles, not unusual for them to be a very close fit. Also necessary to have them dead straight onto the spindle to slide on. Make sure you don't have any burrs on the end of the spindle or the inside of the hub. If all looks clean, it's OK to take a length of emery cloth and polish around the spindle a little to get just a little more clearance. A little grease won't hurt anything, but isn't going to help if you're at zero clearance. I've never had to freeze or heat anything to get them on.

Thanks, Paul - I really appreciate all your help. I'll go get some emery cloth as well as look closely to see if there are any burrs that might be holding us up. Thanks again for your advice!

[PeteMeindl]

Another suggestion...
If you didn't smear some chassis grease or anti-seize into the threads of the upper control arm adjuster sleeves, take it apart and do it now. You and your future alignment guy will thank you later.

(I have the exact same style arms on my '65 El Camino and learned the hard way. With the weight on the suspension I could barely turn the sleeves with a BIG wrench. Granted the Elky is twice the weight of the Roadster, but I had to take it all apart and lube the sleeves.)

Linkage (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?27544-The-40-Watt-Garage-9365&p=333508&viewfull=1#post333508)

Thanks, John! A little preventive medicine like that can help a lot down the road - thanks for the advice!

[PeteMeindl]

Thanks to Paul's good advice, with just a little rubbing with some emery cloth, the hubs went right on the spindles, so great news there. Thank you, Paul! We also torqued up the shocks and made some further progress putting together the front brake calipers today.

Here's how things look now. Front right suspension:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=96476&d=1540764531

Front left:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=96477&d=1540764541

Current state of the front brake calipers
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=96478&d=1540764550

This week we need to go buy a socket big enough to torque down those hubs. Thanks for all the help this weekend, guys! Hope you all have a good week.

[cv2065]

This week we need to go buy a socket big enough to torque down those hubs. Thanks for all the help this weekend, guys! Hope you all have a good week.

If you go to O’Reillys, Advance Auto Parts or Autozone, they have a free rental program for lots of things, including that large socket. I’d just call ahead to make sure they have one in stock.

[PeteMeindl]

Thanks, CV - good idea!

[PeteMeindl]

We got to do a little midweek work on the car tonight, basically torqueing the hub nuts - it took all my weight to get that wrench to click! - and putting on the dust caps. We need to get some brake cleaner before putting the brakes on so we started mapping out next steps once we finish this part of the front suspension. I had a quick question. We have the standard 8.8 Moser solid axle as seen here:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=96715&d=1541038861
In the manual, they fill the rear axle with gear fluid by taking the back off and filling it up. I think if we do things this way, the pros are that it's easy to fill it up, but you need to create a new gasket seal with rtv or something similar. Another option could be trying to pump the fluid in through the gear oil fill port (which i think is the small circular plug you can see in the picture above on the near side of the differential). I think the pro there is you don't need to create a new gasket seal but the con is you need to a pump to pump the fluid in. What are your thoughts on the best approach? Maybe this second approach isn't even valid. Thanks a lot for your advice!

[Fixit]

It's not that bad of a job to fill the axle through the plug on the side.
The gear-oil bottles have a nipple on them. Put a short length of fuel hose on the bottle, the other end into the axle, and squeeze.

[PeteMeindl]

It's not that bad of a job to fill the axle through the plug on the side.
The gear-oil bottles have a nipple on them. Put a short length of fuel hose on the bottle, the other end into the axle, and squeeze.

Thanks, John! I'll follow your advice - sounds good.

[Fixit]

Be forewarned that gear lube STINKS to high-heaven, and is the gooey-est stuff created.
Be careful when squeezing the bottle you don't blow the hose off!

- Have the axle sitting level on all axis, and have the plug ready (on the socket with some sealant already applied).
- Squeeze about a 1/2 bottle into the axle, then put any "differential additive" if needed into that bottle of lube. Continue filling.

Most rear-ends will take the better part of two bottles, probably more.

- When the lube starts to run out of the fill plug hole, it's full.
- Quick like a bunny screw the plug in. (Don't cross-thread it!!)

[PeteMeindl]

Be forewarned that gear lube STINKS to high-heaven, and is the gooey-est stuff created.
Be careful when squeezing the bottle you don't blow the hose off!

- Have the axle sitting level on all axis, and have the plug ready (on the socket with some sealant already applied).
- Squeeze about a 1/2 bottle into the axle, then put any "differential additive" if needed into that bottle of lube. Continue filling.

Most rear-ends will take the better part of two bottles, probably more.

- When the lube starts to run out of the fill plug hole, it's full.
- Quick like a bunny screw the plug in. (Don't cross-thread it!!)

Ha! Ok - more good stuff to know! Hopefully i won't squeeze it out all over myself! Thanks, John.

[PeteMeindl]

This weekend we made some progress, getting the rotors and brakes on the front suspension and then starting work on the rear axle. For the front, we put the rotors on, then mounted the brakes we'd built previously. We haven't torqued down the brakes yet as we just wanted to make sure things look ok to you guys. Here are some pictures - please let us know anything that looks off.

One question on the brakes: they seem a little tight on the rotor right now. The rotor can turn with your hand but there's definitely some friction. Is this ok?

2 view of the front right brake:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=96878&d=1541373060

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=96879&d=1541373074

2 views of the left:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=96880&d=1541373085

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=96881&d=1541373096

We also started work on the rear axle. We put on the C shaped caliper axle mount brackets and the caliper mount brackets. At first we weren't sure how to torque those down given the tight spacing but eventually we figured out that we could use those crowfoot wrench heads and put them on our torque wrench at 90 degrees and that worked out well, I think. I'd never seen that done before so we learned another new thing - every weekend we are learning something totally new to me. We couldn't yet put the gear oil in as although we have about 40 allen wrenches, somehow we didn't have the right size to remove the plug. So we'll get the right size this week and fill the rear end next weekend. Here are 2 pictures of the rear axle.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=96882&d=1541373106

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=96883&d=1541373116

Thanks, again, for all of your help, guys! Hope you all had a good weekend.

[initiator]

Ah, yes - the crowfoot on a torque wrench trick! It's one of my favorites.

I can't see in the pictures, but are your discs approximately centered in the caliper openings? I had to disassemble and redo the shims a couple of times until mine looked good.

Also, I had significant friction on my rear brakes until I found the pin between the brake pad and piston. If you orient the parts so the pin drops into the relief, then the pads can be further away from the disc and they turn more freely. Been a little while, so sorry if I'm soft on the exact description. Vaguely remember that I rotated the piston to line things up properly.

If the pistons have moved toward the disc, you can get a cheap tool at HF or the auto parts store to rotate the pistons while you push them back in and get more clearance. The pistons will naturally move to take up any excess clearance as you use the brakes (this is how they account for brake pad wear), but this initial setup makes sure that you've got enough clearance for it to work right.

[Fixit]

Fronts look good. There'll be some drag on the disc(s) until the parts get to know each other, but if you can spin the rotors by hand with not much effort you're good.

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but unless the rear caliper brackets are stainless, I'd get some paint on them...

Initiator is correct about the rear pads. The caliper pistons need to be "clocked" to match up with the dowel pins on the pads (If they don't line up out of the box). It's something like a $15 tool - looks like a 1" cube with pins & nubs on all the facets (example) (https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/autocraft-disc-brake-piston-remover-ac564/9021086-p?c3ch=PLA&c3nid=9021086-P&adtype=pla&gclid=Cj0KCQiA8f_eBRDcARIsAEKwRGfcfQ7AoirI4LZ_hHkl kDuit9w0O9ZnWRJEyBIyzQE6MT_7dUwjLpQaAsGYEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds). It's not a lost investment, you'll be able to do rear brakes on most anything after purchase.

[chmhasy]

There should be some space between the rotor and caliper mounting bracket.
96928

[edwardb]

As has been alluded to but just to confirm -- disk brakes pads stay in contact with the rotors and drag slightly which is normal. Sometimes not noticeable until the brakes are bled and the pistons have moved out. But still normal behavior. They should turn without the wheel/tire in place, but may be fairly stiff and not turn too much further when you let go. With a tire/wheel mounted, they'll freewheel a little more. But you'll still hear the pads dragging.

[PeteMeindl]

Thanks a lot, guys - this is great advice! I don't know what we'd do without the good will on this forum. Thank you!

Initiator and John, I'll definitely get that tool you mentioned. This is a stupid question but is that just for rear brakes? I noticed both of you mentioned its use for rears and so just wanted to see if it's something i should use on the fronts as well.

John - ugh - you're totally right, we forgot to paint those parts! And this is the one time we torqued things down before posting a picture... well, serves us right... :) A couple questions on the painting:
1) is POR15 a good way to go for these parts?
2) Here's a naive question: if i take these parts off, do i need new sets of nuts and bolts since these are lock nuts? Or can i reuse them?
3) Is it ridiculous to paint the parts without undoing all the bolts and removing the parts? (just thinking if i need new nuts, then maybe this saves me from getting new sets)

chmhasy - thanks for pointing out that lack of gap. I've checked it out and it looks like the picture I posted just isn't lined up that well. If i look straight down, i do see a gap where you circled things. So i think that's good.

Paul - thanks a lot, as always! That's encouraging news. One thing you mentioned was that the rotor will not turn much further when i let go. Mine spin when I apply pressure but don't turn at all after i let go. This isn't just due to the brakes, though. Even before we put the brakes on, the hubs would spin with your hand but would immediately stop if you didn't apply force. Does that sound like a problem? I haven't tried them with wheels and tires mounted yet.

Thank you, guys! We really appreciate your help.

[edwardb]

Paul - thanks a lot, as always! That's encouraging news. One thing you mentioned was that the rotor will not turn much further when i let go. Mine spin when I apply pressure but don't turn at all after i let go. This isn't just due to the brakes, though. Even before we put the brakes on, the hubs would spin with your hand but would immediately stop if you didn't apply force. Does that sound like a problem? I haven't tried them with wheels and tires mounted yet.

I assume you're talking about the front hubs. They should spin pretty freely without any rotors or calipers. Obviously hard to provide any diagnosis with only a word description. But they should turn several times around when given a good push. I've never had any issues with those so don't know what the problem might be, if there is one. Maybe others have some observations or ideas. If by chance you're talking about the back, those will never spin freely with just the hubs due to the differential, posi, etc. Even with tires/wheels installed.

[BadAsp427]

I assume you're talking about the front hubs. They should spin pretty freely without any rotors or calipers. Obviously hard to provide any diagnosis with only a word description. But they should turn several times around when given a good push. I've never had any issues with those so don't know what the problem might be, if there is one. Maybe others have some observations or ideas.

I can tell you that before I put brake fluid in and bleed the brake system, my front rotors, without wheels, would spin for about 10-15 easy revolutions if I gave them a good spin. Then after the brake fluid was in, perhaps only 3-5 revolutions with just a very minor/slight hisssing sound of the brake pads on the rotors, With wheels and tires on, they spin very easily... (flywheel effect) for several revolutions... until I stop them instantly with a slight push of the brake peddle.

[PeteMeindl]

Thanks a lot, Paul and BadAsp! This is good to know but doesn't sound like good news for us... Yup, I am talking about the front hubs. Unfortunately, even before installing the brakes, the front hubs required some force with your hand to spin and they wouldn't continue spinning, even for 1/8 of a turn, once you stopped pushing. My amateur thought might be that either we put them on incorrectly somehow or possibly that the bearings within the hub are not working so well. Should i have lubed them up? If you guys have any thoughts on how i might've mis-installed the hubs, please let me know. If we can't think of something, I'll ping factory five and see if they've had any issues or if they have any advice. Thanks, guys!

[SSNK4US]

Initiator and John, I'll definitely get that tool you mentioned. This is a stupid question but is that just for rear brakes?

Remember, there are NO stupid questions ;)

Kurt

[initiator]

Thanks a lot, Paul and BadAsp! This is good to know but doesn't sound like good news for us... Yup, I am talking about the front hubs. Unfortunately, even before installing the brakes, the front hubs required some force with your hand to spin and they wouldn't continue spinning, even for 1/8 of a turn, once you stopped pushing.

I'm not going to be much help as to what's wrong, but I can tell you the front hubs shouldn't have that much friction before (and probably after) the brakes are installed. Something's not right. Any chance something is rubbing on the rotating parts?

[Fixit]

3) Is it ridiculous to paint the parts without undoing all the bolts and removing the parts? (just thinking if i need new nuts, then maybe this saves me from getting new sets)

I'd just go ahead and prime/paint them in-situ. They're going to be buried inside the wheel where nobody'd know.

As far as reusing NyLok nuts - Once or twice and (IMO) you'll be OK. I've reused the NyLoks on my Mercruiser stern drive a few times over 5 years when changing the pump impeller. Those fasteners are in a much harsher environment than a few bracket bolts.

The bolts/nuts that can't be reused fall in the category of "torque/stretch to yield" - They are mission critical fasteners on things like connecting rods, main caps, etc. They are one-shot fasteners. You're literally stretching the bolt a bazillionth of an inch and putting it into distress - but into it's maximum strength zone.

[PeteMeindl]

I'm not going to be much help as to what's wrong, but I can tell you the front hubs shouldn't have that much friction before (and probably after) the brakes are installed. Something's not right. Any chance something is rubbing on the rotating parts?

Thanks, Initiator. Yeah, as far as i can tell, nothing is rubbing on the rotating part of the hub (beyond the brake pads rubbing against the rotor). I'll take the brakes off this weekend to make sure, though. I'll also ask factory five about the issue as well. This is good to know that something is definitely wrong though. Thanks!

[PeteMeindl]

I'd just go ahead and prime/paint them in-situ. They're going to be buried inside the wheel where nobody'd know.

As far as reusing NyLok nuts - Once or twice and (IMO) you'll be OK. I've reused the NyLoks on my Mercruiser stern drive a few times over 5 years when changing the pump impeller. Those fasteners are in a much harsher environment than a few bracket bolts.

The bolts/nuts that can't be reused fall in the category of "torque/stretch to yield" - They are mission critical fasteners on things like connecting rods, main caps, etc. They are one-shot fasteners. You're literally stretching the bolt a bazillionth of an inch and putting it into distress - but into it's maximum strength zone.

Thanks, John! Great - we'll go ahead and paint them without taking it all apart. Thanks again for the good catch in noting that we missed that. Won't be the last time for us, I'm sure! Thanks for the nylok nut advice as well. Glad to hear i can mess up a time or two without ruining them! :)

[PeteMeindl]

Hi guys, hope everyone has had a good week! So we have been working to resolve an issue with our front hubs as they have been showing more resistance to turning than seems normal (normal seems to be that the hub will rotate a few turns when given a firm push. Ours just stop moving right away). To try to isolate the cause, we took off the brakes and the rotor and tried spinning the hub. Still same sort of resistance with little to no spinning after we apply force. Then we untorqued the hub nut and pulled the hub off, just trying to rotate it in our hand a bit. Interestingly, at first it didn't spin much but after fiddling with it for a few minutes, it started to spin with a little less resistance. Excited, we then put the hub back on the spindle and started spinning it. After a few more minutes of spinning (perhaps we were just loosening it up or spreading around the lubricant in there?) it started to spin for several rotations after a good yank. We also noticed that some red lubricant had oozed out of the front of the hub. But given the spinning, we thought maybe we had somehow solved the problem and were set to move forward. So we started torqueing that big hub nut down - but unfortunately, when we tightened that nut down, the resistance returned. So it seems that somehow the big nut for the hub is impeding the hub's ability to spin... Any thoughts on what we are doing wrong, guys? Thanks a lot!

On the progress side where things are going better, we assembled more of the brackets on the rear axle. Things generally fit together well with a little filing and sanding - I think things seem to be going pretty well here. A couple pictures:

The right rear control arm:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=97258&d=1541980399

The left rear control arm:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=97259&d=1541980413

We had to sand down the spacers some to get them to fit in with the short upper link tube into the bracket on the rear axle. But i think we got them together ok. None of these are torqued down yet.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=97260&d=1541980426

One thing we've noticed is there's a hole in the axle covered by some masking tape - i imagine we're supposed to get some sort of plug and plug this up? Is that right? Here's a picture of where it is (it's still covered by the masking tape).
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=97261&d=1541980438

Hopefully we're making 2 steps forward for every 1 back!
- Please let us know if anything looks wrong in our pictures - that's always a huge help for us.
- We're really stumped on the lack of hub spinning issue - any suggestions here are really appreciated.

Thank you, everyone! We have a bunch of family things going on the next couple weeks so we won't get as much done on the car as we'd like. Happy thanksgiving to you all if we don't talk before then!

[doddmoore]

"We had to sand down the spacers some to get them to fit in with the short upper link tube into the bracket on the rear axle. But i think we got them together ok. None of these are torqued down yet."

Pete, everyone on this forum knows more than I but I had a similar problem with a couple of tabs. It was recommended using a length of threaded rod with washers and nuts to gently spread the tabs apart. This can also obviously be used to bend them closer if needed. Just wanted to mention it if it happens in the future. It may be a better option than sanding down a whole bunch of spacers. Loving that you are in line with my progress. Helps to see someone at the same stages. You will soon pass me I"m sure.

[initiator]

One thing we've noticed is there's a hole in the axle covered by some masking tape - i imagine we're supposed to get some sort of plug and plug this up? Is that right? Here's a picture of where it is (it's still covered by the masking tape).
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=97261&d=1541980438


I suspect the masking tape is covering the hole where you'd install the axle vent. It keeps the inside of the axle tube from building pressure without letting the lube out. I've got one on my axle, although I think it's on the other side of the differential. Kind of got horsed up a little when I had the banana bracket welded on.

[PeteMeindl]

"We had to sand down the spacers some to get them to fit in with the short upper link tube into the bracket on the rear axle. But i think we got them together ok. None of these are torqued down yet."

Pete, everyone on this forum knows more than I but I had a similar problem with a couple of tabs. It was recommended using a length of threaded rod with washers and nuts to gently spread the tabs apart. This can also obviously be used to bend them closer if needed. Just wanted to mention it if it happens in the future. It may be a better option than sanding down a whole bunch of spacers. Loving that you are in line with my progress. Helps to see someone at the same stages. You will soon pass me I"m sure.

Thanks, Mitchell! Good idea. I've been using a spreader at times as well. Something i didn't know about until I learned it from the forum!
Yeah, it's definitely fun for me to follow along on your build - Not so sure I'll pass you on build progress, though! Good luck to you.

[PeteMeindl]

I suspect the masking tape is covering the hole where you'd install the axle vent. It keeps the inside of the axle tube from building pressure without letting the lube out. I've got one on my axle, although I think it's on the other side of the differential. Kind of got horsed up a little when I had the banana bracket welded on.

Thanks, Initiator! That makes sense. I'll see if i can find one and get it in there.

[doddmoore]

Thanks, Initiator! That makes sense. I'll see if i can find one and get it in there.

Pete my axle has this same hole that I have left covered so far. Is there something that came with the kit that screws in there? I see it has threads in the opening. If there is something does that then hook to a hose and to another type of vent? I saw in Jazzman's thread that he did that but he has the IRS with the pumpkin.

[Yama-Bro]

Pete my axle has this same hole that I have left covered so far. Is there something that came with the kit that screws in there? I see it has threads in the opening. If there is something does that then hook to a hose and to another type of vent? I saw in Jazzman's thread that he did that but he has the IRS with the pumpkin.

That's definitely a hole for the vent. You can either screw the vent directly in there or insert a fitting and attach a hose with the vent up higher in the chassis. I put mine directly in the tube. The part number for the vent 4R3Z-4022-AA. I have pictures in my build thread in post #170 if you want a visual.

[PeteMeindl]

That's definitely a hole for the vent. You can either screw the vent directly in there or insert a fitting and attach a hose with the vent up higher in the chassis. I put mine directly in the tube. The part number for the vent 4R3Z-4022-AA. I have pictures in my build thread in post #170 if you want a visual.

Thanks, Mitchell and Yama-Bro. Mitchell - I'm not sure if a part came with the axle to fit in there - i will have to check to see if I have something that I put to the side during inventory that I didn't know what it was for. I'll let you know if I find anything! If not, then YamaBro to the rescue - thanks for the part number, i'll be buying one of those! Thanks for the build thread reference, too - pictures always make understanding all of this much easier!

[Boydster]

The Moser 8.8 rear has that hole as a vent. The Ford axle vent is 7/16-20 thread, the Moser vent hole is 1/4NPT. I used an Earls 916144, which is not perfect as the Ford vent is not meant to seal into an AN fitting. But it works and we are not talking about something that carries fluid or even any pressure.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=97774&d=1542716966

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=97773&d=1542716952

Oh, and the vent is not included in your F5 kit.

[PeteMeindl]

The Moser 8.8 rear has that hole as a vent. The Ford axle vent is 7/16-20 thread, the Moser vent hole is 1/4NPT. I used an Earls 916144, which is not perfect as the Ford vent is not meant to seal into an AN fitting. But it works and we are not talking about something that carries fluid or even any pressure.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=97774&d=1542716966

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=97773&d=1542716952

Oh, and the vent is not included in your F5 kit.

Thanks, Boydster! Will get one ordered shortly. Happy thanksgiving.

[PeteMeindl]

Hi guys - hope you all had a good thanksgiving! We've taken some time off from the car for some family activities but we've gotten back to business here and have some good progress. First off, we talked with factory five regarding the fact that the front hubs don't spin much and they told us that this was normal and not to worry. So hopefully that will be ok. We reassembled everything on the front suspension and torqued it all up and have now moved on to the rear axle.

On the rear axle, we connected the lower control arms to the chassis as well as the short upper link tube. It took a little maneuvering to get all the bolts to fit and we had to use our spreader on one bracket but i think things are connected to the chassis the way they should be. Here's a couple views of the rear:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=98478&d=1543707588

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=98477&d=1543707578

We then built the rear shocks, mounted them to the top brackets, took off the rear panhard bar mount, jacked up the rear axle to connect the lower parts of the shocks to the rear axle brackets. From the factory five manual, it looks like you mount the rear shocks with the spring side down. But when we do this, the spring seems to rub pretty significantly against the rear axle bracket, as in the picture here:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=98476&d=1543707566

In looking at some other threads, it seems some people have installed the shocks with the spring up and some with the spring down. In looking at the FF manual that we have, as i mentioned, they show the shocks spring down. Interestingly, though, in looking through the manual further along, i did see one picture where the rear shock spring is up.

Guys, what do you think? For the standard solid moser rear axle, should we flip them to spring up? I'm worried about the rubbing with the spring down (and am not sure we can get them in the brackets with the washer as well given the bracket conflict).

Thanks a lot for your thoughts!

[Fixit]

Flip 'em. The shock won't know if it's one way or the other.
(Gotta be a typo or something in the manual... there is no way they'll fit springs down!)

[PeteMeindl]

Thanks, John - sounds good - we will go ahead and flip those guys over! Thanks!

[PeteMeindl]

Thanks to John's advice, we flipped the shocks over and they fit great so we torqued up all the bolts related to the rear axle (almost... see below) and now the rear axle is attached to the chassis. This day felt great as getting the rear axle attached with the shocks makes a big visual impression in terms of making some progress. We are excited. :) Here are a few pictures:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=98512&d=1543792147

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=98513&d=1543792156

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=98514&d=1543792171

Question about torquing mounting bolts for rear shocks
The one issue we ran into when torquing was when we were tightening up the bolts attaching the shocks to the rear axle. The manual says to torque these to 40 ft lbs and when we did this, there was still some space between the nut and the axle bracket (so the nut was not flush). We torqued up to 70 ft lbs and the nut got closer but still was not flush. We can keep going but i just wanted to check to see what you guys thought since this is so much more torque than the manual suggests (and we're not even flush yet). Interestingly, both rear shock lower mountings had this exact same behavior. Is it the wrong nut/bolt combo, I wonder? The bolt also seems long for the job it's doing. Should we just keep driving it in until it's flush? We hesitated from doing this given our past bolt stripping experiences. Here are some pictures to help describe this:

For comparison purposes, here's the top mounting, which went in fine and is flush at 40 ft lbs:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=98509&d=1543792113

Here's a look at the bottom mounting. You can't see the nut inside the axle bracket but it is still maybe 1/8 of an inch away from being flush (at least that's the way it feels when i reach in).
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=98510&d=1543792122

Just another view, looking down into the bracket, you can see how much longer the bolt is than i might've thought necessary.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=98511&d=1543792136

What do you guys think? Keep driving it in until it's flush? Or does it seem i have the wrong hardware? Thanks a lot, guys! We always appreciate your great advice! Also, please let us know if anything looks amiss on the rear suspension. Thank you!

[SSNK4US]

I haven’t gotten there yet (haven’t really gotten anywhere yet :( ), but I would measure the threads sticking out then pull the bolt and see if the nut is bottoming out on the non threaded shoulder of the bolt with the nut threaded in to the measured depth. That is if the bolt is not known to be threaded 100%

Kurt

[Dagwoods]

Hello,

Think you may have the wrong bolt for lower mount. Just went out to the shop and took a few pics.

This is passenger side lower shock mount bolt(maybe an 1/8th of thread past locknut):

98527

This is Driver side lower mount bolt (maybe an 1/8th of thread past locknut):

98528

And this is the bolt head. This is a grade 8 bolt as you can see from the head marks. Yours looks silver, not gold, like mine. What grade is yours?

98529

And a poor recreation (backwards) of you last pic showing how much thread sticking out:

98530

Cheers,

Andrew

[PeteMeindl]

I haven’t gotten there yet (haven’t really gotten anywhere yet :( ), but I would measure the threads sticking out then pull the bolt and see if the nut is bottoming out on the non threaded shoulder of the bolt with the nut threaded in to the measured depth. That is if the bolt is not known to be threaded 100%

Kurt

Thanks, Kurt - great idea. I'll go check this out and see if that's the issue....

Just got back from looking at it - Kurt, you were exactly right about what was happening! Thanks. I need some different hardware.

[PeteMeindl]

Hello,

Think you may have the wrong bolt for lower mount. Just went out to the shop and took a few pics.

This is passenger side lower shock mount bolt(maybe an 1/8th of thread past locknut):

98527

This is Driver side lower mount bolt (maybe an 1/8th of thread past locknut):

98528

And this is the bolt head. This is a grade 8 bolt as you can see from the head marks. Yours looks silver, not gold, like mine. What grade is yours?

98529

And a poor recreation (backwards) of you last pic showing how much thread sticking out:

98530

Cheers,

Andrew

Thanks, Andrew - I really appreciate you going out and taking those pictures. Yeah, looks like we have the wrong hardware - that makes sense. We'll contact FF and order some new bolts. Thank you!

[SSNK4US]

I get lucky sometimes lol I’m glad I could actually help.

Kurt

[Goldeneaglerv]

Lol This guy is every mans hero... I think if I tried this my first call should be to my lawyer to discuss my impending divorce hearing.... WELL DONE SIR cant wait to read the rest...

[PeteMeindl]

This weekend we got some new bolts to mount the rear shocks to the axle brackets - these work much better than the ones we had trouble with that I mentioned above. Thanks again for the advice on this, guys - that was really helpful. We had to undo a number of the bolts connecting the bracket to the axle in order to have enough wiggle room to get things aligned again to get that rear shock bolt through the bracket. But with some help and a little jiggling around, we were about to get the new bolts through and get the shocks mounted. We then torqued everything up and I think it's in good shape. The only thing on the rear axle we still need to do is attach the brakes and we're currently waiting on the rear brake pads, so that's on hold. Once those come in, we'll attach the brakes and i think that part of the car will be done. So good news!

We started work on some next steps, mainly beginning on the pedal box. Prior to that, we marked and drilled the aluminum panels for the firewall and the drivers side footbox front panel. We acetoned them off and sharkhided them. We haven't riveted them on yet and it sounds like it's a good idea to hold off on some of the riveting on the front of the footbox as some future panels will be slotted in there. So our plan is to rivet the firewall and the top part of the footbox front panel but hold off on the rest for now. In addition, we painted the brackets and some of the other bare steel parts for the pedal box. Right now we're waiting for all that to dry.

I think this might be the first weekly update where i don't have a big list of questions to send out to you guys... But make no mistake, I'm sure I'll be back to asking a million questions in no time! Have a good week!

[Fixit]

We haven't riveted them on yet and it sounds like it's a good idea to hold off on some of the riveting on the front of the footbox as some future panels will be slotted in there. So our plan is to rivet the firewall and the top part of the footbox front panel but hold off on the rest for now.

#9365 is my 1st build, and quite frankly the thought of riveting the panels scared me. The "permanence" of it... Did I forget something? My car was in cleco's until I couldn't come up with a reason to not rivet.
Some advise from another 1st timer - consider everything that deals with the firewall before thinking about rivets...
- Wiring grommet holes
- Heater box
- Wiper motor
- (optional) Center brace (fabricated by you)

Driver's front footbox panel is a go... nearly everything is keyed off of it.

[PeteMeindl]

Thanks for the advice, John. That makes sense - will cleco the firewall.

[PeteMeindl]

This weekend we drilled all the rivet holes for the firewall and the driver's side footbox front panel. I have to say, after drilling a couple dozen holes, one can start to feel it in your shoulder! Per good advice, we held off on riveting them and have just cleco'd them in. Here's a view:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=99113&d=1545011122

Then we went to work on the pedal box. We mounted both switch mounts and then connected the switches to the mounts. We assembled the clutch pedal as well and put it back into the pedal box. We then attached the mounting bracket to the pedal box. So far things seem to be coming together pretty well. We had a little hurdle in that the manual we have has a different version of the mounting bracket and clutch pedal stop and so we were a little stumped for a while... but we looked at the ffr instructions section and found a new supplement for the wilwood pedal box which had our version of the clutch pedal stop. Good lesson for us to try to remember to check the new instructions section if we ever run into something that seems like a different set of parts. Also, one of our supplied bolts for the clutch pedal is a little longer than specified in the manual, but I don't think it's causing any interference so I think it's ok. Here are some pictures:

After installing the switch mounts and switches:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=99114&d=1545011144

And two pictures after we put the assembled pedals back in the pedal box.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=99116&d=1545011572

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=99117&d=1545011585

Next steps: tightening up all the bolts and then installing the pedal box!

We may not get too much done over the next week or two given all sorts of holiday activities. If we don't get a chance to post - happy holidays to all you guys! Thank you for all of your help that you've given us!

[Fixit]

Lookin' good!

(I'm kinda looking at the "40 Watt" as a sanctuary in the upcoming weeks... When things get to the "family overload" level I can escape for awhile and get my head back on straight!)
Best Wishes to You & Yours!

[PeteMeindl]

Lookin' good!

(I'm kinda looking at the "40 Watt" as a sanctuary in the upcoming weeks... When things get to the "family overload" level I can escape for awhile and get my head back on straight!)
Best Wishes to You & Yours!

I hear ya, John - That's a good idea!

[Pat427]

Looking good. Keep the pics coming!

[PeteMeindl]

Today we tightened up the bolts on the pedal box and temporarily mounted it so that we could mark where to drill the holes for the rear pedal box bracket. We then took out the pedal box, drilled the holes, and then remounted the pedal box. Oh - and we riveted some of the front driver's foot box panel since it seems that now that the pedal box is in, that panel is hopefully not coming out. Things went smoothly, I think (famous last words...). In looking at next steps with the master cylinders, we have two master cylinders of different sizes (one is 0.75 and the other is 0.625) - does it matter where each of them goes? I didn't see any mention in my manual of it and from a couple build threads I've looked at, i can't quite tell what side each is on. Thanks, guys! Happy holiday!

A couple pictures of the installed pedal box:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=99335&d=1545431079

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=99334&d=1545431069

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=99333&d=1545431057

[BadAsp427]

It doesn't really matter where you mount the Master Cyl just as long as you have the 3/4" going to the front and the 5/8 to the rear... On my build, I have the 3/4" (.75) in the middle slot. Just be sure to adjust the brake bias appropriately when that time comes. Your Build is looking great... Happy Holidays

99346

[edwardb]

It doesn't really matter where you mount the Master Cyl just as long as you have the 3/4" going to the front and the 5/8 to the rear... On my build, I have the 3/4" (.75) in the middle slot. Just be sure to adjust the brake bias appropriately when that time comes.

Agree with this response. It doesn't matter. The tiebreaker for me is how the brake lines route. Put them in the position that works best for your planned brake line routing to the front and back. I've personally found the outside one routes best to the rear (5/8 inch) and the middle one to the front (3/4). But your experience and plan may vary. The other hint is to set the initial adjustment just like it describes in the build manual. With everything centered and the proper clearance. Adjustments from there won't happen until you're done and driving.

[PeteMeindl]

Thanks, BadAsp and Paul - sounds good!

[PeteMeindl]

Hey guys, hope everyone is enjoying the holidays. We've had progress on a couple fronts. First, we installed the master cylinders and the accelerator. Since we have a coyote, we used the accelerator included with the coyote rather than the standard ff one that also came with the kit. I think things went pretty smoothly overall. The brake pushes in the rear master cylinder well before the front one but i think that's an adjustment i should make at the end once the entire braking system is set up.

One thing we ran into was that we couldn't fit the coyote accelerator between the installed accelerator bracket and the frame so we had to go back and unattach the accelerator bracket and then slot both the bracket and the accelerator in at the same time. Here are a couple pictures:

Master cylinders:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=99793&d=1546133901

Accelerator:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=99794&d=1546133916

Accelerator side view:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=99795&d=1546133931

One other thing - in the main ffr manual, they show some instructions about a throttle cable at this point. I think, given we're using the coyote accelerator, that we don't have to deal with the throttle cable - is that right?

Then we moved on to start the steering - and to do something to the engine for the first time, which is exciting. We went with power steering so first, we removed the coyote's serpentine belt and the 3 bolts from the engine that will hold the power steering bracket. Then we installed the bracket which we see here:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=99796&d=1546133942

Then we installed the new water pump pulley:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=99797&d=1546133955

Finally, we mounted the power steering pump and put the serpentine back on, as well as the new belt connecting the power steering pump. Here:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=99798&d=1546133967

Our dog was a big help!

One other note, you can see how we've put our engine & stand on a furniture dolly as the wheels on the stand have became a little too bent to be usable. But so far this has worked out ok.

[edwardb]

Nope, no throttle cable for the Coyote. Good luck finding a place to hook one up on the engine. :rolleyes: Like nearly all modern engines, it's drive-by-wire (DBW) with no physical connection between the accelerator pedal and the engine itself. It's hard to tell too much from your picture. Did you follow the directions in the Factory Five Coyote installation instructions for modifying the pedal? As far as mounting, need to make sure it clears the steering column including where the connector from the Coyote control pack harness plugs into it. The pedal does look a little close to the brake pedal. You may want to trial fit the inner footbox panel and check the distance. Might be room to have it over some, and even be more comfortable that way.

Just a general hint. Use the Factory Five Coyote installation instructions, along with the Ford Performance instructions, as your primary guide. The differences in the Coyote installation aren't specifically mentioned in the general Roadster manual. At least any that I've seen.

As far as your brakes, don't judge anything regarding balance without fluid in the system and bled. Even then, I wouldn't recommend trying to adjust anything without actually driving and testing. The key at this point is to follow the instructions and center the balance bar, make sure you have the required clearance on each side, and also that your two master cylinders are installed with the pushrods the same.

[Fixit]

I've found when sitting in #9365, making vroomvroom noises and practicing "heel & toe" that my size 9 wides tend to hang up on the pedal pads. I'm going to shift the brake & clutch pedal pads to the right-most holes - effectively moving the pads left, away from the go pedal.

[PeteMeindl]

Nope, no throttle cable for the Coyote. Good luck finding a place to hook one up on the engine. :rolleyes: Like nearly all modern engines, it's drive-by-wire (DBW) with no physical connection between the accelerator pedal and the engine itself. It's hard to tell too much from your picture. Did you follow the directions in the Factory Five Coyote installation instructions for modifying the pedal? As far as mounting, need to make sure it clears the steering column including where the connector from the Coyote control pack harness plugs into it. The pedal does look a little close to the brake pedal. You may want to trial fit the inner footbox panel and check the distance. Might be room to have it over some, and even be more comfortable that way.

Just a general hint. Use the Factory Five Coyote installation instructions, along with the Ford Performance instructions, as your primary guide. The differences in the Coyote installation aren't specifically mentioned in the general Roadster manual. At least any that I've seen.

As far as your brakes, don't judge anything regarding balance without fluid in the system and bled. Even then, I wouldn't recommend trying to adjust anything without actually driving and testing. The key at this point is to follow the instructions and center the balance bar, make sure you have the required clearance on each side, and also that your two master cylinders are installed with the pushrods the same.

Thanks, Paul! That's good news. Yes, we did follow the FF coyote fitment instructions for modifying the accelerator pedal - so we cut it to make it shorter and flipped the actual pedal up. Yeah, i agree, the pedal is a little close to the brake. We tried to mount the accelerator as far as we could to the right of the brake but it still seems close. John's idea below may help us out some there. Also, we'll leave the brakes alone for now - thanks!

Finally, thanks for the advice on the manual, too!

[BadAsp427]

I've found when sitting in #9365, making vroomvroom noises and practicing "heel & toe" that my size 9 wides tend to hang up on the pedal pads. I'm going to shift the brake & clutch pedal pads to the right-most holes - effectively moving the pads left, away from the go pedal.

I can promise you those Vroomvroom noises you are making are not nearly loud enough!!!

[PeteMeindl]

I've found when sitting in #9365, making vroomvroom noises and practicing "heel & toe" that my size 9 wides tend to hang up on the pedal pads. I'm going to shift the brake & clutch pedal pads to the right-most holes - effectively moving the pads left, away from the go pedal.

Really clever idea! Thanks, John. Effective and totally easy.

[PeteMeindl]

Hi guys, we started to install the power steering rack today and thought we needed to connect the steering shaft to do that job right so we switched over to getting the steering shaft in place and ran into 2 problems, both related to the shaft rubbing. One place is the frame and, as Paul foreshadowed yesterday, the other is the accelerator.

The first problem is that if we run the steering shaft from the footbox wall up to the pillow block (with the accelerator removed so that's not an issue), we see that the steering shaft is in contact with the frame. Here's a picture:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=99843&d=1546215500

One thought was we could put spacers in or do something to slightly raise the pillow block which could solve this issue but would worsen the contact issue we also have with the accelerator.

In trying to run the steering shaft up to the pillow block, the shaft also ran into the accelerator. We removed the accelerator and show where it was hitting here:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=99841&d=1546215482

We thought we could solve this by shaving off up to a centimeter of the plastic on the accelerator. We did this and remounted it - the shaft now can run up to the pillow block but it still rubs the bolt head on the accelerator. Here are a couple pictures. We'd like to move the accelerator to the right but we're already moved it as far to the right as we think is possible as the accelerator bracket is now up against the frame.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=99842&d=1546215491

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=99844&d=1546215514

So now the steering shaft can be mounted but something's not right with the rubbing we're seeing in both of the situations above. And we're not really sure what a good solution would be.

We'd love any advice you guys have - thank you!

[PeteMeindl]

So some good news - after we did some research into a number of other build threads (thanks, Paul!), we saw that often times people need to move the flange bearing from outside the drivers footbox to inside the box. Once we did that, this slight angle change led to the steering shaft no longer touching the bracket for the gas pedal - great news! We still have the issue of the upper steering shaft touching the frame but i think we can solve that with some spacers under the pillow block.

We also installed the steering rack and the tie rods and attached them. I think this all went pretty well. We then attached the steering shaft to the steering rack - it was fun to see the suspension turn when you turn the steering shaft! Here are some pictures and a couple questions at the end.

Steering rack installed, before putting on tie rods:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=99995&d=1546392025

Connecting a tie rod on the left:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=99996&d=1546392043

Steering rack fully installed:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=99997&d=1546392052

Steering shaft installed:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=99999&d=1546392071

Pillow block:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=99998&d=1546392062

We have a couple questions:
- When looking at other build threads, we don't often see a frame extension sticking towards where the driver sits where you mount the pillow block that far back (as you see in the above picture). It looks like FF drilled holes for the pillow block at the far end of the bracket. Should we move the placement of the pillow block further towards the front of the car and drill some new holes or just keep it where it is? It just seems like most of the time people mount this pillow block further forward. Either way, we'll need to add a decent sized spacer to raise the pillow block enough to keep the steering shaft off of the frame - I think this is ok, right?
- In the manual, it mentions to use threadlocker on the steering shaft but we weren't quite sure where - where do you guys use threadlocker on the steering shaft?

Thanks a lot, guys! Happy new year to you all!

[cv2065]

Keep the pillow block where it is. That’s the new FFR design. You will need spacers to pick the steering shaft up a little for clearance. If you have RT’s turn signal mod he provides clearance for you. Only place I can think of for threadlocker on the steering shaft would be on the screw that holds the steering wheel. Build is looking good!!

[PeteMeindl]

Keep the pillow block where it is. That’s the new FFR design. You will need spacers to pick the steering shaft up a little for clearance. If you have RT’s turn signal mod he provides clearance for you. Only place I can think of for threadlocker on the steering shaft would be on the screw that holds the steering wheel. Build is looking good!!

Thanks, CV! Makes sense! happy new year to you.

[edwardb]

We have a couple questions:
- When looking at other build threads, we don't often see a frame extension sticking towards where the driver sits where you mount the pillow block that far back (as you see in the above picture). It looks like FF drilled holes for the pillow block at the far end of the bracket. Should we move the placement of the pillow block further towards the front of the car and drill some new holes or just keep it where it is? It just seems like most of the time people mount this pillow block further forward. Either way, we'll need to add a decent sized spacer to raise the pillow block enough to keep the steering shaft off of the frame - I think this is ok, right?
- In the manual, it mentions to use threadlocker on the steering shaft but we weren't quite sure where - where do you guys use threadlocker on the steering shaft?

A year or so ago (plus or minus) Factory Five redesigned the upper steering column mount to the longer version you have. This is the best picture I could find of the old version. Zoom in and you can see it. I'd be willing to bet that many build threads you're looking at have this older version, hence the confusion.

https://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%2020th%20Anniversary%20Mark%204%20R oadster/Aluminum%20Panels/th_IMG_3894_zps3978wwty.jpg (https://s867.photobucket.com/user/edwardb123/media/Factory%20Five%2020th%20Anniversary%20Mark%204%20R oadster/Aluminum%20Panels/IMG_3894_zps3978wwty.jpg.html)

Looks like the pictures in even the newest build manual are also still the older version. Although I haven't built with it, I've seen where others have reported the steering shaft hitting exactly like what's happening with yours. Many use the Russ Thompson turn signal assembly, which he has re-designed so it works with the new mount. Using it spaces the column up so it doesn't hit. If you're not using his mount, then add a spacer on each side of the bearing high enough to not interfere with the chassis.

Probably they're talking about thread locker on the set screws on the upper and lower bearings. I wouldn't be in a hurry. You may end up with the steering shaft in and out a couple times before you're done. I always seem to.

Edit: cv2065 posted a similar explanation at the same time as me. At least we agree. :o

[PeteMeindl]

A year or so ago (plus or minus) Factory Five redesigned the upper steering column mount to the longer version you have. This is the best picture I could find of the old version. Zoom in and you can see it. I'd be willing to bet that many build threads you're looking at have this older version, hence the confusion.

https://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%2020th%20Anniversary%20Mark%204%20R oadster/Aluminum%20Panels/th_IMG_3894_zps3978wwty.jpg (https://s867.photobucket.com/user/edwardb123/media/Factory%20Five%2020th%20Anniversary%20Mark%204%20R oadster/Aluminum%20Panels/IMG_3894_zps3978wwty.jpg.html)

Looks like the pictures in even the newest build manual are also still the older version. Although I haven't built with it, I've seen where others have reported the steering shaft hitting exactly like what's happening with yours. Many use the Russ Thompson turn signal assembly, which he has re-designed so it works with the new mount. Using it spaces the column up so it doesn't hit. If you're not using his mount, then add a spacer on each side of the bearing high enough to not interfere with the chassis.

Probably they're talking about thread locker on the set screws on the upper and lower bearings. I wouldn't be in a hurry. You may end up with the steering shaft in and out a couple times before you're done. I always seem to.

Edit: cv2065 posted a similar explanation at the same time as me. At least we agree. :o

Thanks, Paul! Yeah, that all makes sense and we'll take that path. One other interesting change that seems to have happened is that the accelerator bracket has changed such that the steering shaft now goes between the 2 accelerator attachment points on the left of the pedal assembly (the shaft now passes just under the top attachment point) rather than above both attachment points which is I think how it was in the past.

Happy new year to you and thank you for all of your help!

[PeteMeindl]

We've been doing a lot of drilling and cleco'ing lately - i can feel it in my arms after all that drilling! Here's a picture of the passenger side footbox:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=100245&d=1546742497

And the passenger side aluminum floor:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=100246&d=1546742509

Here's the inside of the footbox before we got all the panels in:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=100247&d=1546742522

We were wondering about a couple items:
- for the outside panel of the passenger footbox, on the lower side of that panel along the edge of the panel that is parallel to the ground, do you guys rivet through that panel, the floor panel, and the round tube of the frame? Or just through the 2 aluminum panels?
- It's ok to drill & rivet into the 2 main cylindrical tubes of the chassis, right? Such as for the aluminum floor.
- At what point in the process do you guys think it's best to actually rivet all these footbox panels?

Thanks for any advice you guys have!

[Straversi]

Looking good.
Regarding the foot box and rivets, I’d try to just rivet the panels together. If you need to run some into the 2” tube it’s not a problem. I didn’t rivet into the main tubes for the floors but many do from what I have seen.

I’d postpone riveting panels together until you can’t go any further. It’s nice to be able to take it apart if you have to get to something. When the panels are loose you can reach through the frame. Once the rivets are in you are going under and over. That’s when I understood why lifts were so popular.
-Steve

[edwardb]

Agree with Steve's comments. Couple more. See from your pics your panels are all still raw, including the ink marking. Are you planning to finish them in some way? Paint, powder coat, Sharkhide, whatever? If so, you want to do that after drilling and fitting, but before permanently mounting them. Also, I'd recommend after drilling that you take the time to clean up the drilled holes. I see a lot of burrs and flash around your holes. That's going to get in the way of setting the rivets properly and just generally needs to be cleaned up before whatever finish you do. You can use a deburring tool, a countersink bit, or I use a large nice sharp 5/8-inch drill bit and just twist it in the hole by hand. Cleans them right up.

[Fixit]

Don't know if you have compressed air available, but a pnuematic riveter will fast become your new best friend.

[Jeff Kleiner]

...See from your pics your panels are all still raw, including the ink marking. Are you planning to finish them in some way? Paint, powder coat, Sharkhide, whatever? If so, you want to do that after drilling and fitting, but before permanently mounting them...

Just adding to Paul's comment...if you intend to leave them raw as many do take acetone or lacquer thinner and remove the ink markings ASAP. A thin layer of oxidation begins to build on the surface as soon as the aluminum sheets are manufactured but will not occur (at least not to the same level) over the ink---if you wait to clean the ink off the layer will be even heavier on the non-inked area and although the black markings will be gone you'll still see the less oxidized "shadow" of where it was.

Jeff

[PeteMeindl]

Thanks, Straversi! Sounds good - I'll go that route.

[PeteMeindl]

Agree with Steve's comments. Couple more. See from your pics your panels are all still raw, including the ink marking. Are you planning to finish them in some way? Paint, powder coat, Sharkhide, whatever? If so, you want to do that after drilling and fitting, but before permanently mounting them. Also, I'd recommend after drilling that you take the time to clean up the drilled holes. I see a lot of burrs and flash around your holes. That's going to get in the way of setting the rivets properly and just generally needs to be cleaned up before whatever finish you do. You can use a deburring tool, a countersink bit, or I use a large nice sharp 5/8-inch drill bit and just twist it in the hole by hand. Cleans them right up.

Thanks, Paul! What we've done so far before permanently mounting the panels (for the few that we've riveted) has been to acetone them to get rid of the markings and then sharkhiding them. We'll do that with these panels too before we mount them for good. Thanks for the good idea around deburring the holes - i like your 5/8 drill bit idea, nice and simple and gets the job done! We'll do that to clean it up!

[PeteMeindl]

Just adding to Paul's comment...if you intend to leave them raw as many do take acetone or lacquer thinner and remove the ink markings ASAP. A thin layer of oxidation begins to build on the surface as soon as the aluminum sheets are manufactured but will not occur (at least not to the same level) over the ink---if you wait to clean the ink off the layer will be even heavier on the non-inked area and although the black markings will be gone you'll still see the less oxidized "shadow" of where it was.

Jeff

Thanks, Jeff! I've noticed that shadow on the previous panels we've acetoned and sharkhided and didn't realize what the cause was - now I do. Thanks a lot!

[PeteMeindl]

Thanks for all the good advice on the panels, guys! One final question on the panels before we move on - is it ok if some panels rise up a little past the frame? For instance here's a picture of the panel going up the vertical side of the transmission/driveshaft tunnel on the passenger side and you can see the panel extends beyond the frame. Is this ok or do you guys recommend trying to cut this down? Thanks!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=100438&d=1547177403

We're on to the fuel system now! Something i'm a little unsure about... We've put the vent and gasket into the fuel tank and are now looking at the fuel pickup. In the ff instructions, it says to drill out the 2 ends of the fuel pickup. The instructions, pictured below, show that you should use the exact same size drill bits to drill out each of the pickup lines - but they are quite different sizes. Is this right? Or should i use smaller drill bits for the smaller pickup.

Here are the instructions:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=100439&d=1547177416

Here's a picture of the 2 lines:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=100440&d=1547177424

Thanks a lot! Have a good weekend, everybody!

[edwardb]

For those bent floor pieces that are extending above the top of the transmission tunnel, no you don't want that extra material there. It will prevent the transmission tunnel cover top from mounting properly against the chassis tubes. Looks like you already have it drilled and cleco'd. I've noticed they may extend slightly and need a little trimming. But not that much. I've found you need to push the corner down at the floor level pretty firmly to get them to go down all or most of the way. Maybe try that and see if they'll go down more. Otherwise, I'd trim them. But as a last resort. My usual advice regarding the aluminum panels is they're well proven and precisely laser cut. If something doesn't fit right, check the assembly, proper overlap, etc. before cutting metal. Almost always not required. My main experience with occasional trimming (just a little...) is to clear welds so they sit flat.

[PeteMeindl]

For those bent floor pieces that are extending above the top of the transmission tunnel, no you don't want that extra material there. It will prevent the transmission tunnel cover top from mounting properly against the chassis tubes. Looks like you already have it drilled and cleco'd. I've noticed they may extend slightly and need a little trimming. But not that much. I've found you need to push the corner down at the floor level pretty firmly to get them to go down all or most of the way. Maybe try that and see if they'll go down more. Otherwise, I'd trim them. But as a last resort. My usual advice regarding the aluminum panels is they're well proven and precisely laser cut. If something doesn't fit right, check the assembly, proper overlap, etc. before cutting metal. Almost always not required. My main experience with occasional trimming (just a little...) is to clear welds so they sit flat.

Thanks, Paul! We will try to push that panel down further and see if we can get it to line up. What you said makes a lot of sense.

Anyone have any thoughts on the drill bits for widening out those fuel intakes? Maybe it's not too big a deal what size you use?

Thanks, guys - hope you all are having a good weekend!

[PeteMeindl]

Hey guys, Pete's son Jamie here. We've been working on the installing the rear brakes and the fuel tank and have run into a couple of issues. For the rear brakes, it seems that part of the brake caliper is rubbing on the rotor. Could putting in the brake fluid fix this issue? Also with the rear brakes, the supplied bolts seem to be too long and if fully tightened would come close to hitting the rotor. Is this normal or should we use different hardware? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

I know it's hard to see in this picture, but the part is not the only thing touching the rotor. Also, the mounting hardware is not fully tightened and would come close to the rotor if it was.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=100921&d=1547938667

This is the part of the caliper that is hitting the rotor.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=100920&d=1547938652

Next, we began work on the fuel tank and finished installing the fuel level sender, pickup, and filler tube. However, while trying to put it onto the chassis, we could not get the straps to fit around and attach onto the hardware. On both sides, we are close to attaching it but cannot quite get there.

Driver side strap:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=100919&d=1547938639

Passenger side strap:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=100918&d=1547938618

Has anyone else had a similar issue? We were thinking that we get some longer bolts to attach it but wanted to see if anyone had a different idea. Again, thanks so much for all the help we have received. Hope everyone has a great weekend.

[BadAsp427]

I'll address the fuel tank straps... It's not uncommon for the bolts provided to be just barely long enough... I would suggest swapping them out with some longer stainless steel ones. Those original ones will rust pretty quickly anyway.

Also, just an observation, I see the chrome rear end cover. Many people believe that the chrome covers traps a lot of heat internally. They would also suggest putting on a cast aluminum cover to help with that heat. I'm sure that there is some merit to this, but under normal street driving, I'm not sure it is a big issue. Just an observation.

[edwardb]

I see lots of comments on multiple threads about using stainless hardware. I use my share too... But two words of caution just in case. (1) The normal hardware store variety SS hardware isn't particularly strong. Likely not even as strong as average steel grade 5 hardware. Often not an issue, but just be aware. There's specialty stuff out there that's much stronger at places like Fastenal, McMaster, etc. But it's not cheap. (2) Get in the habit of using a dab of anti-seize lubricant when assembling with SS hardware. It has a bad habit of occasionally galling and then locking in place. At that point nearly impossible to get apart without destroying something. Usually at the worst possible moment. Ask me how I know.

[Fixit]

Can't comment on the brake caliper interference...
Gas Tank:
As stated the bolts are just barely long enough to catch the nut - if at all. I replaced mine with standard grade 5 zinc coated hex bolts. (What is this affinity for socket head Allen bolts??)
I went with either 1/4 or 1/2 inch longer (whatever was available). Trying to get an Allen wrench into the socket after a few months of road crud isn't fun.
Don't bother with stainless. Nobody's gonna see it, they're not strong, and the 54 year old raw steel bolts on my El Camino's tank straps haven't rusted away yet - and it spent the 1st four decades of it's life as a daily.

[PeteMeindl]

Thanks, BadAsp, Paul, and John! We will get some longer bolts and that should solve our fuel tank issue. Looking forward to getting that installed!

[PeteMeindl]

We are hoping we may have come up with a solution to our rear brake issue. As we mentioned, right now when we put the bolts in to connect the rear brakes to the bracket on the rear axle, the bolts are just a bit too long (maybe a mm or two) and they can come in contact with the rotors (as well as a center part of the brake itself, mentioned in a previous post). See in the picture below:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=100921&d=1547938667

Our potential solution is to put some washers in between the two brackets from the axle, pushing the upper bracket plate in the picture above to the left and thus moving the brake to the left a mm or 2 and that, i hope, will keep the rotor from coming in contact with the bolts and center part of the brake. I think that will help out - let me know if you think this is a bad idea. Thanks, guys!

[Fixit]

Don't know if this will work or not (without parts in hand/looking at it), but it costs nothing but a little time...

I played around with your pic on a photoediting program and moved the parts around, and this may solve your problem. (I didn't save the "moving around" pic, but the overlay setup of the new configuration seemed to solve your problem). And now that I think about it, I think had to do this when I put discs on the rear of my El Camino.

Now if this idea will require serious trimming/grinding/modifying the brackets don't do it. If it's just a little shave to clear a weld bead or something it's your call... but just jigging this up may reveal it's the solution.

Flip the orientation of the brackets. Move the axle flange bracket to the inboard/inside surface of the axle flange, and mount the caliper/caliper bracket to the outboard/outside surface of the axle flange bracket. They'll still be in the same plane, but I think you'll gain that 1/16" clearance your looking for.
100996

[PeteMeindl]

Don't know if this will work or not (without parts in hand/looking at it), but it costs nothing but a little time...

I played around with your pic on a photoediting program and moved the parts around, and this may solve your problem. (I didn't save the "moving around" pic, but the overlay setup of the new configuration seemed to solve your problem). And now that I think about it, I think had to do this when I put discs on the rear of my El Camino.

Now if this idea will require serious trimming/grinding/modifying the brackets don't do it. If it's just a little shave to clear a weld bead or something it's your call... but just jigging this up may reveal it's the solution.

Flip the orientation of the brackets. Move the axle flange bracket to the inboard/inside surface of the axle flange, and mount the caliper/caliper bracket to the outboard/outside surface of the axle flange bracket. They'll still be in the same plane, but I think you'll gain that 1/16" clearance your looking for.
100996

Ha - good thinking, John! I have to say I'm very grateful that you took the time to play around with this in a photo-editor to try to solve my problem - you go above and beyond the call of duty! Thank you.

[PeteMeindl]

Today we got some longer bolts for the fuel tank straps and installed the fuel tank. We then got the fuel filter and riveted that to the frame and connected it to the feul tank. Here are a couple shots:

The entire tank:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=101299&d=1548545974

Looking at the connection to the fuel filter:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=101298&d=1548545965

We also put in Jeff Kleiner's quick jack mod - great idea Jeff! Thanks.

Now on to the fuel lines!

[PeteMeindl]

We've been mapping out where to run the fuel lines and wanted to see what you guys thought of our plan. First off, we have 2 segments of fuel line (each 5 ft). We don't have a flaring tool thus I think we either have to use 5 ft or a full 10 ft of line. From laying things out, it seems like we could use just one 5 ft segment and run the line starting just above the main 4 inch chassis tube in the rear, run it towards the front along the outside of the chassis tube, and then curve it up to the engine bay. This means we'd use the nylon hose provide to run from the fuel filter in the rear, rivet it into the frame along the vertical arm coming out above the 4 inch tube at the rear of the car, and meeting the hard line where the red circle is below.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=101300&d=1548545983

We'd basically do the same route for both the in and out bound lines.

Does that seem reasonable to you guys? Thanks for any thoughts!

[BadAsp427]

It's all looking good... Question, where is your fuel pump going to be?

[PeteMeindl]

It's all looking good... Question, where is your fuel pump going to be?

Ha - great question, BadAsp! You really helped us out here - we had inserted the fuel pick-up that came with the ff kit - and totally didn't realize that a separate fuel pickup (this one with an in-tank fuel pump) was also packed up with our coyote kit! Your question prompted us to realize this!! So thank you! Time to go replace that pickup.

We have a fuel pump question we'll post in a minute...

Thanks, again!

[PeteMeindl]

Thanks again, BadAsp, for asking about the fuel pump. We're now trying to put together the in-tank fuel pump and it looks like we need to do some crimping. Here's a picture of the order i think these parts come together:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=101343&d=1548641848

So i think we should strip those wires and connect them with a crimper. I've read that for automotive purposes, we might want to use a special crimping tool as a regular one isn't adequate. Is this true? Or does a regular crimper work.

If we need a special crimping tool, does anyone have a recommendation for a good tool?

Thanks!

[Papa]

Pete,

When these things are assembled, the wire lengths are pretty short. Is there any way to just re-pin that connector that plugs into the pump? Or better yet, with the wires attached to the hanger plug directly to the pump with the connectors that are already crimped to them? That way you wouldn't need to crimp anything and the wire lengths would be no longer than you actually need. Just a thought.

As for a crimper recommendation, here is what I have: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0045CUMLQ/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
It works great and can do several different types of connectors.

Dave

[FF6602]

So cool to have the body in the living room! What a gal! You better keep her! Good luck with your build - sounds like you are off to a great start.

[initiator]

Pete - If you're using the F5-supplied fuel lines, be aware that you can get compatible pre-made lines in a variety of lengths from most auto parts stores. I used one of the long ones from F5, but then a shorter version from Action Auto Parts to get the overall length I wanted. They're pre-flared with fittings. just check the flared ends before you pay for them - I found a couple with damage that probably wouldn't have sealed well.

[PeteMeindl]

Pete,

When these things are assembled, the wire lengths are pretty short. Is there any way to just re-pin that connector that plugs into the pump? Or better yet, with the wires attached to the hanger plug directly to the pump with the connectors that are already crimped to them? That way you wouldn't need to crimp anything and the wire lengths would be no longer than you actually need. Just a thought.

As for a crimper recommendation, here is what I have: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0045CUMLQ/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
It works great and can do several different types of connectors.

Dave

Thanks, Dave! That's a good idea - I'll see if i can do that.

[PeteMeindl]

Pete - If you're using the F5-supplied fuel lines, be aware that you can get compatible pre-made lines in a variety of lengths from most auto parts stores. I used one of the long ones from F5, but then a shorter version from Action Auto Parts to get the overall length I wanted. They're pre-flared with fittings. just check the flared ends before you pay for them - I found a couple with damage that probably wouldn't have sealed well.

Good point, Initiator. Yeah, getting some shorter lines could help me out and avoid the decision of whether to add a whole 5 ft section or not. I'll be sure to check the flared ends too. Thanks for the advice!

[PeteMeindl]

We made our first baby steps to actually running the fuel lines today. We mapped out the path for the fuel intake line and reminded ourselves to make sure that the attachment fixtures were at the end of the line before we bent anything. Then we bent our first line - It worked great and in our excitement, we realized we forgot to do what we just reminded ourselves to do.... I guess now we have a fuel line to practice on! :)

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=101665&d=1549149682

Then we taped the fixtures to the ends of the lines so we wouldn't forget again... We tried on the second fuel line and this time I think things worked ok. Here's how things look in the rear:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=101666&d=1549149691

And the front:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=101667&d=1549149699

We also drilled a couple holes and started mounting the line, although we've only done 2 so far as we aren't really succeeding in getting the clips to lie flush with the chassis. So we wanted to get your advice on this and one other issue:

Question 1:
When using those rubber insulated clips to attach the fuel line to the chassis, we just don't seem to be able to get the two ends of clips to lie flush with the chassis - we're thinking maybe these clips work better for the 1/4 inch line and we might buy some slightly bigger ones for the 5/16 inch line. Has anyone else had this issue and come up with a good resolution?

Question 2:
We got the fuel pump wires connected to the wires on the fuel pickup and we were thinking of putting some heat shrink around the connection. I'm completely naive but the exposed connection being submerged in fuel makes me feel a little worried. I also like the heat shrink idea as it'll help make sure these connections don't ever come undone. Here's a pic of the connection:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=101668&d=1549149707
So the questions are: 1) is putting heat shrink on just a silly, totally unnecessary thing to do? 2) if it's not a bad idea, is just regular heat shrink ok, or will the fuel corrode it away? and 3) if we should get special heat shrink, does anyone have a kind they like? We thought Raychem DR-25 would do the trick, but then we talked to someone at an autoparts store who said that wouldn't work in a fuel tank and that viton heat shrink was the way to go. Not easy to find that either. Any thoughts, guys? Thank you! Hope you're all doing well.

[DadofThree]

Then we bent our first line - It worked great and in our excitement, we realized we forgot to do what we just reminded ourselves to do.... I guess now we have a fuel line to practice on! :)

We've all done that :)



Then we taped the fixtures to the ends of the lines so we wouldn't forget again...
Good Solution



Question 1:
When using those rubber insulated clips to attach the fuel line to the chassis, we just don't seem to be able to get the two ends of clips to lie flush with the chassis - we're thinking maybe these clips work better for the 1/4 inch line and we might buy some slightly bigger ones for the 5/16 inch line. Has anyone else had this issue and come up with a good resolution?

I ordered these clamps (https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/82032/10002/-1) for my 5/16" steel fuel lines. I used a 3/16" rivet to hold in place too. I probably have some left you can have.



but the exposed connection being submerged in fuel makes me feel a little worried.

ME TOO. I don't recall any wires exposed like that in my stock fuel pump assy.

[initiator]

We've all done that :)

Too right. Usually only once, though.

I also wasn't happy with the provided clips and found some insulated stainless ones - probably exactly the same ones as Dave but from Summit Racing.

[edwardb]

Question 2:
We got the fuel pump wires connected to the wires on the fuel pickup and we were thinking of putting some heat shrink around the connection. I'm completely naive but the exposed connection being submerged in fuel makes me feel a little worried. I also like the heat shrink idea as it'll help make sure these connections don't ever come undone. Here's a pic of the connection:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=101668&d=1549149707
So the questions are: 1) is putting heat shrink on just a silly, totally unnecessary thing to do? 2) if it's not a bad idea, is just regular heat shrink ok, or will the fuel corrode it away? and 3) if we should get special heat shrink, does anyone have a kind they like? We thought Raychem DR-25 would do the trick, but then we talked to someone at an autoparts store who said that wouldn't work in a fuel tank and that viton heat shrink was the way to go. Not easy to find that either. Any thoughts, guys? Thank you! Hope you're all doing well.

Yes, I think it's a good idea to put heat shrink around that connection. To seal it up, protect it, and make sure it doesn't come apart. Not a place you want to be having problems. But you can't use typical off-the-shelf heat shrink. Nylon or olefin are the most common, and it won't stand up to gasoline. Put some in a jar of gasoline overnight and see what happens. I'm not familiar with Raychem DR-25. When I researched this, I ended up using Molex Perma-Seal connectors. The Molex literature specifically lists gasoline as one of the chemicals it's resistant to. Related to this, I'm not sure I'd use those kind of AMP 1/4-inch blade style connectors. I recall they're rated at 15 amps, depending of course on the wire they're attached to. Your fuel pump will probably be one of your higher current draws. Plus the plastic on those crimping versions probably isn't rated to be in gasoline. I'd recommend a butt type connector like you pictured previously. Which leads me to recommending Molex Perma-Seal butt connectors. They're pretty widely available. I got mine from DelCity.net. A good source for electrical stuff in general in case you haven't discovered it yet. These if your wires are the same size: https://www.delcity.net/store/Perma!Seal-Heat-Shrink-&-Crimp/p_812022.h_812023. These if they're different and you need a step-down connector (what I used): https://www.delcity.net/store/Perma!Seal-Heat-Shrink-&-Crimp-Step!Down/p_812028.h_812029. Others may have other suggestions based on their experience. But bottom line you need something specifically made to be immersed in gasoline.

[PeteMeindl]

We've all done that :)


Good Solution



I ordered these clamps (https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/82032/10002/-1) for my 5/16" steel fuel lines. I used a 3/16" rivet to hold in place too. I probably have some left you can have.


ME TOO. I don't recall any wires exposed like that in my stock fuel pump assy.

Thanks, Dave! Very kind of you to offer up some of your clamps - i bought some yesterday just like yours actually so i think we're good to go. Thanks!

[PeteMeindl]

Yes, I think it's a good idea to put heat shrink around that connection. To seal it up, protect it, and make sure it doesn't come apart. Not a place you want to be having problems. But you can't use typical off-the-shelf heat shrink. Nylon or olefin are the most common, and it won't stand up to gasoline. Put some in a jar of gasoline overnight and see what happens. I'm not familiar with Raychem DR-25. When I researched this, I ended up using Molex Perma-Seal connectors. The Molex literature specifically lists gasoline as one of the chemicals it's resistant to. Related to this, I'm not sure I'd use those kind of AMP 1/4-inch blade style connectors. I recall they're rated at 15 amps, depending of course on the wire they're attached to. Your fuel pump will probably be one of your higher current draws. Plus the plastic on those crimping versions probably isn't rated to be in gasoline. I'd recommend a butt type connector like you pictured previously. Which leads me to recommending Molex Perma-Seal butt connectors. They're pretty widely available. I got mine from DelCity.net. A good source for electrical stuff in general in case you haven't discovered it yet. These if your wires are the same size: https://www.delcity.net/store/Perma!Seal-Heat-Shrink-&-Crimp/p_812022.h_812023. These if they're different and you need a step-down connector (what I used): https://www.delcity.net/store/Perma!Seal-Heat-Shrink-&-Crimp-Step!Down/p_812028.h_812029. Others may have other suggestions based on their experience. But bottom line you need something specifically made to be immersed in gasoline.

Thanks a lot, Paul! That's really helpful - we'll look at getting some of those connecters and make sure that we have versions of everything that can be immersed in gasoline. This is great.

[PeteMeindl]

Thanks for all of the advice, guys. I think we've made some progress and now have the fuel lines installed. Here's a look at where things stand:

Starting at the fuel tank:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102078&d=1549940556

Moving down to the main tube of the chassis:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102079&d=1549940568

Running along the main tube:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102080&d=1549940575

Finally, into the engine bay:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102081&d=1549940584

We then installed the charcoal canister:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102082&d=1549940592

And attached the flexible brake lines to the front brakes:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102083&d=1549940601
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102084&d=1549940621

Next step is installing the brake reservoir which is underway. Hopefully we'll get that done next weekend. Hope everyone's doing well and enjoy the long weekend!

[cv2065]

Loookng good! You’ve gotten a lot accomplished!

[initiator]

Do you have your wheels and tires yet? I had to mess with the front brake flex lines in order to avoid rubbing the tire when the wheels turn side-to-side. Eventually went with a 90-degree fitting (pointed down) right at the chassis end of each line that solved it. That trick came from this forum.

[PeteMeindl]

Do you have your wheels and tires yet? I had to mess with the front brake flex lines in order to avoid rubbing the tire when the wheels turn side-to-side. Eventually went with a 90-degree fitting (pointed down) right at the chassis end of each line that solved it. That trick came from this forum.

Good idea, Initiator - we do have wheels and tires but we haven't put them on yet. We'll check that out and see what the clearance is on the brake lines. Thanks a lot!

[PeteMeindl]

This weekend we had the chance to work on our brake lines some more and made some progress. Ours aren't the best looking out there, that's for sure, but we're hoping that they're functionally ok! First thing we did was mount the 2 new brake reservoirs, using a mount we modeled after Papa's great work.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102372&d=1550540108

Here's a view of our connection from the reservoirs to the master cylinders:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102373&d=1550540122

Then we started running the brake lines from the master cylinders to the brakes. Here's the line running to the left front brake:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102374&d=1550540134

Here's the line running across the front of the car from the left to the right:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102375&d=1550540147

Then we ran the line from the master cylinder for the rear down the front of the footbox:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102376&d=1550540164

Here's the line running under the car:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102377&d=1550540176

More pictures in the next post in a second, here!

[PeteMeindl]

Here's a continuation of our brake line post.

Here's the brake line up to the left rear brake:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102378&d=1550540210

Another of the left rear:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102379&d=1550540222

Then we ran the line over to the right rear. This was not the most elegant job one has ever done, as you can see... but again, hopefully it's functional!
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102380&d=1550540229

Finally, the right rear brake with the flexible line:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102381&d=1550540240

We were excited at this point to go get some brake fluid and see if our brakes would work! So we were tightening up all the fittings and as we were torquing the banjo bolts to the rear brakes, the bolt broke in two... Here's a view of the broken bolt in the brake:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102383&d=1550542244

Two steps forward, one step back! :) So next step for us is to figure out how to get that bolt out of the brake... I guess we could try to drill it out. I'm a little worried about shavings getting into the brake but not sure what a better idea would be. If anyone has any suggestions, we'd love to hear them! Thanks, guys!

[SSNK4US]

Hi Pete,
Just to double check.... is the hose from your reservoirs to the master cylinders rated for brake fluid?

Kurt

[PeteMeindl]

Hi Pete,
Just to double check.... is the hose from your reservoirs to the master cylinders rated for brake fluid?

Kurt

Thanks, Kurt. We used the hoses that came with the brake reservoirs from CNC so I think they are ok. Thanks for the check!

[Papa]

Pete,

If you can't get that bolt out of the caliper (I agree that drilling isn't a good option), those calipers aren't very expensive. I'd try to get some vice grips on it and see what happens. If you do have to drill, just get the hole large enough to get an extractor bit in there. You can coat the drill bit with grease to help capture the shavings.

Dave

[PeteMeindl]

Pete,

If you can't get that bolt out of the caliper (I agree that drilling isn't a good option), those calipers aren't very expensive. I'd try to get some vice grips on it and see what happens. If you do have to drill, just get the hole large enough to get an extractor bit in there. You can coat the drill bit with grease to help capture the shavings.

Dave

Thanks, Dave! Glad to hear those calipers aren't too expensive - I thought it might be a decent amount of money. Thanks for the tips - we'll try them out and see if we have any luck!

[Mark Reynolds]

If that banjo bolt does not come out with your fingers it suggests the bolt is too long and you ran out of threads. The replacement should be a little shorter.

[cv2065]

Don't follow the manual torque specs on those banjo bolts. I think its 24 ft/lbs or something like that. I snapped the heads off two banjo bolts before I realized it was wrong. Just tighten a bit, test and tighten a little more at a time until it stops leaking. I used a 1/4" ratchet to limit the amount of force when turning. My broken bolts just twisted out easily, but if you can't get it out, calipers are $85 for two at the local auto parts. Just check them before you leave and ensure that bleeder screws aren't stripped out, as they are all refurbs.

Two observations on your brake line routing. Is the line that's going across the rear differential floating? I tried to secure the lines as close to a support beam whenever possible, more for protection than anything else. Might just be the picture. Also, the rear brake line that you have coming down the front of the footbox will be close to the header that comes right across there. Just something to think about.

Again, no expert here, just thought I'd mention it. Looks like you are making quick progress!!

[Fixit]

If that banjo bolt does not come out with your fingers it suggests the bolt is too long and you ran out of threads.

Another possibility... Did you install the bronze/copper/? crush washers on each side of the fitting? With those in place they'll take up about 5/32 - 1/8". Could be why the bolt bottomed out..
102401 Kinda a crappy picture, but as shown in the pic its caliper/washer/fitting/washer/bolt.

[initiator]

And if it hasn't been mentioned already, I suggest replacing the Aluminum banjo washers with copper ones, which can be found at your average auto parts store.

[Fixit]

I'd seriously reconsider your routing of the rear brake main feeder...


Then we ran the line from the master cylinder for the rear down the front of the footbox:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102376&d=1550540164

Regardless of what powerplant you're using, that location is going to be only fractions of an inch from the exhaust header. This is pic of 9365 using a Coyote
102427

I'll recommend you run the line inside the footbox, along the 3/4"sq. tube where the gas pedal bolts to, and out between the 3/4"sq. and the 2" round tube.
102428 102429 This route keeps it away from heat as far as practical, and isn't too difficult to do.

(Your front "crossover" line looks fine... unless you intend to use the Breeze front battery box/mount. If so the line might be/is in the way.)
102435

[PeteMeindl]

If that banjo bolt does not come out with your fingers it suggests the bolt is too long and you ran out of threads. The replacement should be a little shorter.

Thanks, Mark. The banjo bolt wouldn't go in (or out) with just finger turning, unfortunately, once the bolt got more than a couple turns in. Thanks!

[PeteMeindl]

Don't follow the manual torque specs on those banjo bolts. I think its 24 ft/lbs or something like that. I snapped the heads off two banjo bolts before I realized it was wrong. Just tighten a bit, test and tighten a little more at a time until it stops leaking. I used a 1/4" ratchet to limit the amount of force when turning. My broken bolts just twisted out easily, but if you can't get it out, calipers are $85 for two at the local auto parts. Just check them before you leave and ensure that bleeder screws aren't stripped out, as they are all refurbs.

Two observations on your brake line routing. Is the line that's going across the rear differential floating? I tried to secure the lines as close to a support beam whenever possible, more for protection than anything else. Might just be the picture. Also, the rear brake line that you have coming down the front of the footbox will be close to the header that comes right across there. Just something to think about.

Again, no expert here, just thought I'd mention it. Looks like you are making quick progress!!

Thanks, CV! Always appreciate your advice and encouragement! I'll follow your comments and not torque those banjo bolts in once i get a new one here. Thanks for the brake line comments - yeah, you can't see it in my picture but the rear one is attached at two points to the frame in front of the fuel tank. Good point on the line going in front of the footbox. I was following the ffr manual but didn't think about the heat from those headers. Fixit pointed this out too. Sounds like i should move that inside the footbox to keep it away from the heat. Thanks a lot for the good tip! Enjoying following your build - i'm impressed!

[PeteMeindl]

Another possibility... Did you install the bronze/copper/? crush washers on each side of the fitting? With those in place they'll take up about 5/32 - 1/8". Could be why the bolt bottomed out..
102401 Kinda a crappy picture, but as shown in the pic its caliper/washer/fitting/washer/bolt.

Hi John, Thanks! Yeah, we did have those crush washers in there. The bolt broke while it was still about 1/4 inch from the caliper too so it seems like it wouldn't be too close to bottoming out. There was some resistance to it turning.

[PeteMeindl]

And if it hasn't been mentioned already, I suggest replacing the Aluminum banjo washers with copper ones, which can be found at your average auto parts store.

Thanks, Initiator! I'll get the copper ones. Appreciate it!

[PeteMeindl]

I'd seriously reconsider your routing of the rear brake main feeder...


https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102376&d=1550540164

Regardless of what powerplant you're using, that location is going to be only fractions of an inch from the exhaust header. This is pic of 9365 using a Coyote
102427

I'll recommend you run the line inside the footbox, along the 3/4"sq. tube where the gas pedal bolts to, and out between the 3/4"sq. and the 2" round tube.
102428 102429 This route keeps it away from heat as far as practical, and isn't too difficult to do.

(Your front "crossover" line looks fine... unless you intend to use the Breeze front battery box/mount. If so the line might be/is in the way.)
102435

Thanks, John! This is really helpful with the pictures of how you ran your lines - that makes it very clear. By the way, your lines look great! I'm totally impressed. On the battery issue, we're going to have ours in the back so hopefully that front cross over line will be ok. Thanks a lot, again, for the detailed help!

[Fixit]

Hi John, Thanks! Yeah, we did have those crush washers in there. The bolt broke while it was still about 1/4 inch from the caliper too so it seems like it wouldn't be too close to bottoming out. There was some resistance to it turning.

Something wasn't right... you should be able to run those banjo bolts all the way in to where they seat everything together by hand (or by using a socket twirled with your fingers), then put a wrench on it to tweak them tight.

[PeteMeindl]

Something wasn't right... you should be able to run those banjo bolts all the way in to where they seat everything together by hand (or by using a socket twirled with your fingers), then put a wrench on it to tweak them tight.

Thanks, John. If/when we get that bolt out, we'll check to see that the new banjo bolt goes in easier. Otherwise, we'll check it on a new caliper. Thank you!

[PeteMeindl]

I'd seriously reconsider your routing of the rear brake main feeder...


https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102376&d=1550540164

Regardless of what powerplant you're using, that location is going to be only fractions of an inch from the exhaust header. This is pic of 9365 using a Coyote
102427

I'll recommend you run the line inside the footbox, along the 3/4"sq. tube where the gas pedal bolts to, and out between the 3/4"sq. and the 2" round tube.
102428 102429 This route keeps it away from heat as far as practical, and isn't too difficult to do.

(Your front "crossover" line looks fine... unless you intend to use the Breeze front battery box/mount. If so the line might be/is in the way.)
102435

You guys make a good point about the brake line being near the header - do you think it's possible to wrap some sort of insulation around the brake line to try to keep it from getting too hot? Or is rerouting the only real way to go to be sure that the car is safe? Thanks!

[BadAsp427]

I would suggest putting it inside... I was able to run mine down the inside front corner and it is now behind the carpet out of the way. And out of the heat. Perhaps you these photos will help. The second is where it came out of my DS floor next to the 4" frame. The red arrows are all pointing at the same line as it comes out of the M/C. And FWIW, I had mine on the outside as well but once I saw how close the headers were going to be to it, it was a no brainer to move it to the inside.
102513 102514

What I did to begin with and changed.
102515

[PeteMeindl]

I would suggest putting it inside... I was able to run mine down the inside front corner and it is now behind the carpet out of the way. And out of the heat. Perhaps you these photos will help. The second is where it came out of my DS floor next to the 4" frame. The red arrows are all pointing at the same line as it comes out of the M/C. And FWIW, I had mine on the outside as well but once I saw how close the headers were going to be to it, it was a no brainer to move it to the inside.
102513 102514

What I did to begin with and changed.
102515

Thanks for those pictures - that helps a lot! Your lines look great, too, by the way. We've got a ways to go til we learn to bend them like you guys can! thanks, again.

[Boydster]

You guys make a good point about the brake line being near the header - do you think it's possible to wrap some sort of insulation around the brake line to try to keep it from getting too hot? Or is rerouting the only real way to go to be sure that the car is safe? Thanks!

If it was fuel on a recirculating system it just might be OK. But brake fluid has very little, if any movement... the fluid in that area would almost certainly boil into a gas, and gasses compress. Without testing and recording temps, etc, nobody can say if it would be OK by wrapping and still have you stay safe. Re routing is the only way to be sure. Sorry...

[Fixit]

Bending tight radii or circles isn't as hard as it looks.
I primarily use a common hand bender for anything from "just a jog/offset" to a little over 90 degs.
The secret to circles or near circles is having a stash of various diameter round stock & pipe chunks, and/or large size deep sockets to act as dies.

Clamp a hunk of pipe/die in the vise, do a pre-bend on the line with the bending tool. Then gently coax the line around your die. Obviously go slow and don't kink it.
You can usually use about 5x the line O.D. as a minimum bend diameter. Having strong hands is also a big help!
102532
This was bent around a 3/4" deep socket

102533102534
The loops were bent around a hunk of 1-1/8" OD pipe.

It just takes practice.

Having the tools & ability to put your own ends on & flare the line(s) is also a great help. You're not restricted by pre-made ends getting in the way.

[PeteMeindl]

If it was fuel on a recirculating system it just might be OK. But brake fluid has very little, if any movement... the fluid in that area would almost certainly boil into a gas, and gasses compress. Without testing and recording temps, etc, nobody can say if it would be OK by wrapping and still have you stay safe. Re routing is the only way to be sure. Sorry...

Got it - Thanks, Boydster. Sounds like rerouting is the best way to go. We'll get it done this weekend - Thanks!

[PeteMeindl]

Bending tight radii or circles isn't as hard as it looks.
I primarily use a common hand bender for anything from "just a jog/offset" to a little over 90 degs.
The secret to circles or near circles is having a stash of various diameter round stock & pipe chunks, and/or large size deep sockets to act as dies.

Clamp a hunk of pipe/die in the vise, do a pre-bend on the line with the bending tool. Then gently coax the line around your die. Obviously go slow and don't kink it.
You can usually use about 5x the line O.D. as a minimum bend diameter. Having strong hands is also a big help!
102532
This was bent around a 3/4" deep socket

102533102534
The loops were bent around a hunk of 1-1/8" OD pipe.

It just takes practice.

Having the tools & ability to put your own ends on & flare the line(s) is also a great help. You're not restricted by pre-made ends getting in the way.

Ahhhh, ok, thanks, John! We were just using the line bender tool. We'll use some cylinders we can wrap around when we do our re-route. I'm sure they won't look as good as your perfect circles, but this will be a big improvement. Thanks!

[Fixit]

The line material is really amazingly malleable in the small diameters. You just have to "work it" with your hands or around a tool.

Like I said, just practice.

[PeteMeindl]

Banjo Bolts in Brakes:
This weekend we worked on 3 main things. First was to try to get our brakes all hooked up. As you saw earlier, we broke one of our banjo bolts while installing them in our rear brake calipers. We tried a variety of methods to try to twist it out, but we just couldn't get it out. So we decided to try to drill it out. Given the banjo bolt already has a hole right down the center, we were easily able to correctly line up the drill to work from the center out, increasing the bit size gradually. This seemed to work pretty well and we eventually got the bolt out with the threads in the caliper looking pretty intact.

Just to be sure, though, we retapped the threads (something i'd never done before) in the caliper. We then tried a new banjo bolt - and just like you guys said, this one twisted in just fine by hand. We used some brake cleaner to try to flush out any shaving from the banjo bolt incident and when we bleed the brakes we'll try to run some extra fluid through this caliper to try to clean out anything that we might not have gotten. Hopefully that will work.

We tightened down all four banjo bolts now (without torquing them this time) and i think the brakes are hopefully ready.

Rerunning brake lines
Given your good advice, we decided to pull out our rear brake line that had originally run down the front of the driver's footbox and reran the line down the inside of the footbox and out a hole we drilled in the bottom of the footbox. Hopefully this is better:

Here's the line coming down from the master cylinders:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102717&d=1551063143

And here's the line coming out the hole in the footbox and running back along the chassis:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102718&d=1551063152
I'm wondering whether we should fill in that hole around the brake line - if so, what's a good material to do this with?

At this point, i think we're basically ready to put some fluid in the brakes and see if they work. We've never done this before (so wish us luck!) and we're excited to see if we can get the brakes to stop a spinning tire... :) Hopefully we'll get to that next weekend.

Electrical
So we made an initial baby step into working on the electrical system. We ran the fuse box through the gap in the firewall and then down into the footbox where we mounted it. Here's a pic:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102719&d=1551063160

That's where things stand right now. Thanks a lot, guys!

[BadAsp427]

Looks great... I filled the hole in the floor with the same silicon that I've used on all of my panels. I really put a good amount in the hole and around the top of the hole to be sure it is water tight. That is under the carpet anyway so I was pretty generous with it.

[PeteMeindl]

Looks great... I filled the hole in the floor with the same silicon that I've used on all of my panels. I really put a good amount in the hole and around the top of the hole to be sure it is water tight. That is under the carpet anyway so I was pretty generous with it.

Got it - makes sense. Thanks a lot, BadAsp!

[cv2065]

I used a rubber grommet to fill the hole. Only thing is that you have to put the grommet on and run it down the line, so may or may not be an option for you.

[Fixit]

Sure sounds like either the threads on the banjo bolt or in the caliper were bugger'd. Glad you got it fixed.

x2 or 3... just goober up the hole with some silicone.

[initiator]

I got a variety pack of rubber grommets for cheap. This location needed to have the grommet slit on one side since the tube was already installed. Looking good!

[PeteMeindl]

No real pictures from this weekend but i think we did make some progress as we put brake fluid in our brakes and bled them. A quick little test showed that the brakes do stop a spinning wheel (which is a good start!). Here's what we did:
- We have 2 reservoirs and we started by filling the front one 3/4 with brake fluid.
- We have an air pressure bleeder cap, so we installed that on the reservoir and attached a bike pump to apply some air pressure to the brake fluid.
- Then we applied a few PSI of air pressue... and brake fluid started coming out of a number of our connections... But this was good news as it was at least a sign that fluid was going through the system! We then refilled our reservoir.
- We tightened up the connections with the leaks, and then opened up the bleeder valve on the right front brake.
- Brake fluid started coming out and we let it flow until we stopped seeing air bubbles.
- Then we closed that valve and opened the left front brake and did the same thing.
- Then the moment of truth came - we put on a tire, spun it, and pressed the brake pedal - the tire stopped! High fives all around. :)

We did the same thing for the rear brakes and the same test - it worked as well. Really happy to see this.

One side note related to some earlier issues with our front hubs - our front tires take a little effort to spin. Not as much as the rear, certainly, but if you give them a good push, they don't spin that much - less than 1 full rotation. Hopefully that is ok but i'm not sure. It that's not ok, a couple thoughts as to what might be going on: 1) it does sound, even when the brakes aren't applied, that there is some rubbing against the brake pads when the wheel spins and 2) i remember when we installed the hubs they seemed to turn more freely before they were fully torqued down.

Hopefully all of that is ok. Overall, though, we were really happy to see that the brakes were functional, at least enough to stop a tire. Thanks, guys!

[PeteMeindl]

Fuel Pump: After a few iterations, we finally got our fuel pump in order, we think. Thanks to Paul's good advice, we found some good fuel resistant connectors with some heat shrink ends. We used those to connect the pump to the pickup, shrunk the heat shrink, and then put some additional heat shrink over the whole connection. All looked good. We got the pump & pickup into the tank but somehow the fuel line between the pickup and the fuel filter doesn't quite fit now given the slightly different angle that the new pickup has... so we'll go get a new section of fuel line to connect them but then that will hopefully be done. Progress!

Electrical: We continue to plug away on the electrical, hooking up the ignition and a few other items. Still have a lot to do here, though, as we're really just getting started.

Stupid Question #156: For the ignition, the FF manual says to attach the 2 brown wires to the ACC screw - but only 1 if we're using a 1-wire alternator. For the standard Coyote, the alternator is not a 1-wire alternator, right? When looking at the alternator, it looks like 3 wires come out but i'm not totally sure whether that's enough to ensure i should connect both brown wires to the ACC screw on the ignition. Do you guys suggest i connect both brown wires to the ignition? Thanks, as always!

[edwardb]

Stupid Question #156: For the ignition, the FF manual says to attach the 2 brown wires to the ACC screw - but only 1 if we're using a 1-wire alternator. For the standard Coyote, the alternator is not a 1-wire alternator, right? When looking at the alternator, it looks like 3 wires come out but i'm not totally sure whether that's enough to ensure i should connect both brown wires to the ACC screw on the ignition. Do you guys suggest i connect both brown wires to the ignition? Thanks, as always!

No, the Coyote Ford Performance 5.0 Alternator Kit M-8600-M50BALT is most definitely not a 1-wire alternator. It's what's called a 6G alternator. But that doesn't matter in this case. You don't need the brown alternator wire from the Ron Francis harness. You only need the single large red alternator wire to the post on the alternator. Then plug in the alternator connector from the Coyote harness. That's it.

[PeteMeindl]

No, the Coyote Ford Performance 5.0 Alternator Kit M-8600-M50BALT is most definitely not a 1-wire alternator. It's what's called a 6G alternator. But that doesn't matter in this case. You don't need the brown alternator wire from the Ron Francis harness. You only need the single large red alternator wire to the post on the alternator. Then plug in the alternator connector from the Coyote harness. That's it.

Got it - Thanks, Paul!

[PeteMeindl]

Hi guys! We've been away from the car for a couple weekends of skiing but this weekend we were back at work on the car - feels good! We're working on connecting all the electrical system. We've got a bunch of questions but i'm batching them up and will be unleashing them on you guys in the near future. Beyond connecting wires, we've started on the dash, adhering the dash cover to the aluminum sheet. Here's a shot of it:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104830&d=1554082337

Things worked pretty well getting the front of the dash cover on. Things got a little messy trying to adhere the overhanging part of the dash cover on the back, but I think that's ok since that will be out of sight.

We also have begun riveting in the passenger footbox. Here ares some pictures of it.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104831&d=1554082349

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104832&d=1554082369

Hope everyone is doing well!

[Fixit]

One side note related to some earlier issues with our front hubs - our front tires take a little effort to spin. Not as much as the rear, certainly, but if you give them a good push, they don't spin that much - less than 1 full rotation. Hopefully that is ok but i'm not sure. It that's not ok, a couple thoughts as to what might be going on: 1) it does sound, even when the brakes aren't applied, that there is some rubbing against the brake pads when the wheel spins and 2) i remember when we installed the hubs they seemed to turn more freely before they were fully torqued down.

I forget who it was, but there was another builder who questioned the "drag" on their front wheel assembly - so I shot this short video. Once things get to know eachother after a few miles the scuffing sound should disappear, and the wheel(s) should free-spin easier.


https://youtu.be/Dgmg7WFKCwY.

[PeteMeindl]

I forget who it was, but there was another builder who questioned the "drag" on their front wheel assembly - so I shot this short video. Once things get to know eachother after a few miles the scuffing sound should disappear, and the wheel(s) should free-spin easier.


https://youtu.be/Dgmg7WFKCwY.

John - thank you so much! You win the nice-guy-of-the-day award for taking that video. I have to tell you that hearing that sound of the pads slightly rubbing was music to my ears as that's just what mine sound like but i was worried that this wasn't supposed to happen. When i spin my front wheel, i get just about 1 rotation, just as you did. So I think we're in good shape on that. Thank you very much for alleviating my concern - that's something I've been worried about for a couple months now! Have a great day!

[PeteMeindl]

We've been working on the electrical for the dash and making some good progress, although we have some questions for you guys, as expected. In general, we think we've been able to follow along in the manual and we've been learning a lot. Here are a couple pictures.

Front of the dash:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105174&d=1554675299

Back of the dash:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105173&d=1554675291

It's fun to see the dash come together and see how it'll actually look in the finished product!
Any help on the following would be greatly appreciated! Sorry these are so elementary...
Questions:
1) On the indicator lights (such as for the high beams and the turn signal indicators), which of the wires is the ground - the long or the short? Here's a picture:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105175&d=1554675308
2) For the hazard lights, what wire do we use to light up the hazard light on the dash? And do we just connect that one wire to the hazard switch? Here's a picture:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105177&d=1554675320
3) It seems like the dash harness has left front turn and right front turn wires. Should we splice these into the other turn signal wires that connect to the turn signal switch?
4) Similar to 3, there's a 'speed clock mem' wire in the dash harness that I think may not go anywhere. Is that right that we don't use it?

Thanks a lot! Hope everyone's been enjoying some good spring weather. Today in Connecticut would've been the first really good day to take the Mk IV out!

[BadAsp427]

Looking nice.... I can easily answer your first question about the lights... there is no Pos/Neg, either will do both. On my build, I used jumper wires between the turn signal switch and the hazard switch to get the power where it needed to go... CLICK HERE (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?29472-Carl-s-20th-Anniversary-8690-Street-Legal-Gel-Coat-Driver&p=341255&highlight=wiring#post341255)for the page I have on my build and in one of the photos you can see the two switches on the left side of the photo. You have a different turn signal switch than I do so not sure if my system would work for yours. Bottom line, I just followed the wiring on the schematic for the wiring harness and you should be able to follow how to hook them up. I know this is not a text book explanation, but it makes sense once you follow the schematic. The Speed/clock/mem wire is your always hot wire to keep your clock running even when the key is off. It will also keep your radio memory sets (if you have one) and on the GPS spedo it will allow for a fast boot up and satellite connection. Hope this is at least a little help.

[edwardb]

Looks like you're using the standard kit switches, e.g. dash mounted toggle for turn signals, hazards, and low/high beam headlights. That makes it easy. Well, easy to say. Just follow the Ron Francis dash wiring schematic exactly and it will work. Specific responses to your questions:

1. BadAsp427 is right. The kit supplied incandescent indicator lights will work with +12V and ground on either lead. No worries there. If they were LED, that wouldn't be the case.

2. You're not quite understanding the circuit. There isn't a separate indicator for the hazards. There are two turn signal indicators. One for each direction which will flash along with the turn signals on each side. When the hazard switch is turned on, both turn signal indicators will flash along with the lights on all four corners. Same as every DD I've ever owned or seen.

3. Again, wire it just like it shows. You're right. The front and rear turn signals are different colors for each side. But they are joined at the turn signal switch.

4. Don't see a clock in your dash, so you don't need it for that. Also with those Autometer gauges no GPS, so don't need it for that either. Looks like you don't need it. Make sure it's capped since it's always powered. You can't pull the fuse since there are other things on that circuit you need, e.g. headlight switch and courtesy lights (if you're using them).

[PeteMeindl]

Looking nice.... I can easily answer your first question about the lights... there is no Pos/Neg, either will do both. On my build, I used jumper wires between the turn signal switch and the hazard switch to get the power where it needed to go... CLICK HERE (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?29472-Carl-s-20th-Anniversary-8690-Street-Legal-Gel-Coat-Driver&p=341255&highlight=wiring#post341255)for the page I have on my build and in one of the photos you can see the two switches on the left side of the photo. You have a different turn signal switch than I do so not sure if my system would work for yours. Bottom line, I just followed the wiring on the schematic for the wiring harness and you should be able to follow how to hook them up. I know this is not a text book explanation, but it makes sense once you follow the schematic. The Speed/clock/mem wire is your always hot wire to keep your clock running even when the key is off. It will also keep your radio memory sets (if you have one) and on the GPS spedo it will allow for a fast boot up and satellite connection. Hope this is at least a little help.

Thank you, Carl! That all makes sense and is very helpful!

[PeteMeindl]

Looks like you're using the standard kit switches, e.g. dash mounted toggle for turn signals, hazards, and low/high beam headlights. That makes it easy. Well, easy to say. Just follow the Ron Francis dash wiring schematic exactly and it will work. Specific responses to your questions:

1. BadAsp427 is right. The kit supplied incandescent indicator lights will work with +12V and ground on either lead. No worries there. If they were LED, that wouldn't be the case.

2. You're not quite understanding the circuit. There isn't a separate indicator for the hazards. There are two turn signal indicators. One for each direction which will flash along with the turn signals on each side. When the hazard switch is turned on, both turn signal indicators will flash along with the lights on all four corners. Same as every DD I've ever owned or seen.

3. Again, wire it just like it shows. You're right. The front and rear turn signals are different colors for each side. But they are joined at the turn signal switch.

4. Don't see a clock in your dash, so you don't need it for that. Also with those Autometer gauges no GPS, so don't need it for that either. Looks like you don't need it. Make sure it's capped since it's always powered. You can't pull the fuse since there are other things on that circuit you need, e.g. headlight switch and courtesy lights (if you're using them).

That's great - very clear. Thank you, Paul! I think I understand what we need to do now. I certainly don't know what we'd do without all your great help!

[PeteMeindl]

Thanks to BadAsp and Paul, I think we figured out the wiring on the dash. We connected up the indicator lights and worked through the schematics to hook up the hazard lights as well. We used some epoxy to connect some of the switches to the back of the dash just to hopefully keep them from swiveling around. Here's how things look on the backside (front still looks the same as before):
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105724&d=1555293278

Then we mounted the fuel pressure regulator on the firewall. There are three holes in the mounting bracket but we could only figure how to rivet 2 of them into the firewall since to do the third would require removing the regulator from the bracket to get the bracket on but then once the bracket is mounted, it wasn't clear that we would have enough room to remount the regulator on the bracket. But even with 2 rivets, it feels quite solid so i think we are ok. Here a picture:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105725&d=1555293287

Then we moved on to attach some of the aluminum panels in the trunk. Here are a couple shots of this:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105727&d=1555293296

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105728&d=1555293311

We still have loose ends on the electrical wiring to work out - I'll post some questions on this later. But after that, i'm wondering if it's almost time to put the engine in. Any thoughts on that, guys? Do you see things we need to do before popping the coyote in? It'll certainly be an exciting day in our household when we attempt this! :)

Thanks!

[doddmoore]

I start working on the dash pretty soon. Maybe as early as next week. I'll be following this pretty close since I have the stock gauges as well.

[PeteMeindl]

We tried to set up our brake balance today to get at least an acceptable starting point. I think we shouldn't worry about this too much before we go kart but still wanted to see if you guys had any comments or advice. Here's a link to a video showing us depressing the brake:

https://youtu.be/U9Sy8o13rHM

We tried to balance it out such that each cylinder depressed about equally. It seemed ok - however the initial positioning looks a little off-kilter. Here's a picture:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=106115&d=1555896424

Love to hear your advice - especially on something as important as brakes! Thanks, guys!

[PeteMeindl]

Morale is high here as we had a great weekend where we decided to try to put the engine in the car - i think we were somewhat successful! :) First thing we had to do was build our engine hoist which was pretty easy and straightforward. Then we hoisted up the engine out of the FFR engine stand and slowly, slowly, slowly moved it up and over our engine bay. Here's a shot of the process:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=106116&d=1555897431

It took the help of all four of us, pushing the transmission down and guiding the engine past the steering shaft, around the brake reserviors (which we had to uninstall - and are temporarily outside the frame) and into the mount slots but we eventually got the engine home - triumph! We were excited!

We then set about adding the water temp sensor and the oil pressure sensor to the coyote. As we've seen in some forums comments, the size of the water temp sensor adapter doesn't fit with the coyote. But we found another adapter within our parts that did work. So we got the sensors installed and then went on to try to bolt on the headers. Uh-oh - we couldn't get the headers on with the engine all the way settled into the engine mounts... It was just too tight on the driver's side. So we rehoisted the engine up about 6 or so inches and we had enough room to install the headers. We then lowered the engine back home. We added the transmission mount as well.

We are very excited - it feels good to have this progress! Here are some pictures. Installing headers:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=106118&d=1555897467

The engine now in:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=106119&d=1555897482

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=106120&d=1555897494

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=106121&d=1555897505

Let us know if you see anything we should've done or should've done differently! Thanks, guys!

[initiator]

Looking good! I actually had the shorty headers installed outside the car - made it a little tighter but still installed with not real issues. Sure looks nice with the mill in place, right?