Bump Steer 4" Studs for 33 Hot Rod

[Tom Veale]

I've been looking around at bump steer kits and the longest studs I've found are 3". I need a stud 4" long for what I want to accomplish.
I have a bump steer kit installed with 3" long studs, so know they're too short for my mission.

86943

Any ideas on a source for longer upright studs for me? Any help will be appreciated.
Tom

[Brave Salmon]

tom, did u ask Tim Whittacker up in Idaho. he may be willing to cut some to your specs.

[Tom Veale]

Thanks for the suggestion. Over on the other site I just got a note from him.

TV

[Hotrodb]

Where did you get the bump steer for your 33 Thank you

[Tom Veale]

Hi HRB, It's been quite a while since I bought the kit, but think I ordered it from Summit Racing. It helped quite a bit, but my car, #007, was one of the first and had welded-in-place steering arms on the spindles. They're not the same as what came on the later cars. To get to where I want to be, I may have to get the standard spindles and change out my old ones. I don't think 4" long bolts are the best answer.

Tim Whittacker, I believe, has a bump steer kit he's making for the '33 now. Check with him, too.

[Hotrodb]

Just placed an order from him today thank you

[Tom Veale]

I received notification from FFR that my new spindles and steering arms are on the way. They may require me to modify how I attach my front cycle fenders but won't know until they arrive. The old ones are welded spindles and arms, so probably aren't what is the current style.
More soon..............

[myjones]

I received notification from FFR that my new spindles and steering arms are on the way. They may require me to modify how I attach my front cycle fenders but won't know until they arrive. The old ones are welded spindles and arms, so probably aren't what is the current style.
More soon..............

Tom
That's a good start to fixing your bump steer issues, let us know how it maps out for bump steer with just the spindle change before you
start raising the rack ends. Remind me what your chassis to ground clearance is at the firewall and the height of your front tires?

Dale Berry
Hemi33

[sturigus83]

Tom try and check with fansteall they are very good at having most anything nuts and bolts you might and they are cheeper to.

[NAZ]

My 33HR was delivered in 2016 so it may have the same spindles & arms that you are waiting for. I was able to set-up my bump steer to no more than .005" max and thru most of the 3.5" of travel it ranges from .002" to .003". I used the FFR bump steer kit #27593 but I don't like using a straight shank fastener to hold the heim joint to the steering arm. That arrangement relies on a great deal of clamp load to hold this levered single shear coupling from wobbling around. So I purchased an adjustable Pinto 7-deg taper tie-rod to heim joint adapter #91636055-Pinto and some 5/8" ID steel cone heim joint spacers from Speedway Motors. The cone spacers allow full rotation of the heim joints. On top of this I added a 5/8" fender washer so that should a heim joint failure occur it is captive (an NHRA requirement). This makes for a solid and professional looking set-up that's easy to adjust.

[Tom Veale]

Thanks Sturgis and NAZ, I'll take some pics of before and after when I change out the spindles. I'll check out fasteners and the bump kit that FFR is offering.
Tom

[Tom Veale]

Ugh! My spindles were shipped to my old address. 70 mile round trip and hope the new homeowners are there.............

[Tom Veale]

FFR is helping out with FedEx. They've arranged for the spindles to be picked up and re-routed to me.

Thanks FFR!

[Tom Veale]

A very special "Thank You" goes out to Paul Vieira at FFR for tracking down my spindles, getting FedEx to pick them up at our old house and getting them sent on their way to our current address!

Best regards,
Tom

[Tom Veale]

I had some time to look at the new replacement spindles vs the ones that came with this very early kit. Mine's #007. I already knew the Steering Arms were different as mine were welded and the new ones were Bolt-On. I've been out of town, so haven't been able to work on the car yet. That may happen next week.

The first visual difference is in the span between the top and bottom ball joint flanges. The current ones are exactly 6" apart where the original ones are 6 3/4" apart. I can see where this would affect the relative motion of the upper and lower suspension arms when its compressed and released. It also would change the relative position of the bolt-on steering arm to these same pieces, I believe. So, I can see why everyone else has far less trouble with bump steer than I've had. I'm feeling more confident that this is going to cure that.

I'll take side-by-side photos when I get the parts off the car.

More next week........

Tom

[Tim Whittaker]

I have bump kits available but they are almost gone again. kootenaivalleycustoms.com.

Tim Whittaker

[Tom Veale]

After 8 or 9 years with HR #007, I sometimes forget all the things I've done to it.......
When we went to switch out the spindles we "re-discovered" the fact that I'd changed out the upper ball joints from the screw-in style to some that were designed to be weight loaded from the bottom.
Well, the new spindles wouldn't accept the larger shanks of the replacement ball joints. And, the modified ends of the old upper control arms wouldn't accept the original screw-in ball joints.......

So, again FFR came to the rescue and provided new upper control arms post haste. I may have it back together by the weekend. I think we're reaching the end of this particular project. Once assembled, we'll have to re-set the ride height to compensate for the difference in spindles, etc. Then starts to alignment and Bump Steer work. I have my old ride heights, corner weights and alignment settings as a starting point.

Keep your fingers crossed!
Tom

[Tom Veale]

Hi Tim, Thanks for the offer. I'll know more by the weekend.

Tom

[Tom Veale]

Well, it has been a long journey - about 12,000 miles to add some dimension to it......

I now have honest FFR Front Spindles on my HR007 for the first time since Mike Everson assembled the suspension back in 2009. This kit came with some hand fabricated front spindles of significantly different dimensions than the "factory" units now being used. I'd struggled with taming 007's ride and harshness in the early years and was pretty successful in all but bump steer. After messing around with ride height, various heights of bump steer kits and changing the Toe I'd found something I could live with, but nothing that really cured the dartiness and harsh feedback through the steering wheel when going over bumps with just one front tire.

I mentioned in an earlier post that the difference in spindle distance between the ball joint flanges was 3/4" (6" on the new ones and 6 3/4" on the old ones. This gave the upper and lower control arms archs that were far different than they are with the new spindles. I actually went back to almost the same Caster, Camber settings from my old setup but found that changing the Toe really helped the car. I'd had maybe 1/8" front toe-in before and ended up with 1/8" toe-out when they finally finished up today. The difference in overall stability in sweeping corners and steer-in is dramatically better as is the straight ahead feel and lack of harsh feedback thru the front suspension.

The car is far more drive-able now and will be far less fatiguing on long drives.

Thanks to those here who encouraged me to get rid of the original spindles and go for new ones of the right dimensions. Wolf's Motorsports here in Elkhart Lake, WI worked with me on getting all this done correctly and getting the alignment right. We were able to get the ride height back about where it was before, got the corner and cross weights back pretty close to where I'd had them and done on far more accurate scales than I'd used almost a decade ago. And, they dialed out the bump steer to be around 1/16" deflection max.

It's like driving someone else's car it's so much better. I don't know how many early kits were shipped with the fabricated front spindles. Mine might have been the last one. It can be distinguished from the new ones because of having welded-on steering arms and the larger distance between the upper and lower ball joint flanges.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=96030&d=1540245378

Here's the settings I ended up with:
4.5" Height under front Grille
5" height at the frame under the fire wall
6.2" height at the frame just ahead of the rear tires.
Front Camber LF -3°; RF -4°
Front Caster LF 5.5°; RF 5.6°
Front Toe 1/8" Out on both Left and Right.

Caster is a bit higher than I'd had it (3.5° before) but steering effort isn't too bad here. Since the steering harshness is much improved, I up'd my tire pressure from around 28 PSI on all four corners to 34 PSI. That helped to compensate for the modest increase in steering effort at low speeds with the higher caster value. Those of you with power assisted steering can probably go higher on caster with no ill effects.

So, now I don't have to worry about getting my wrists broken when driving over rail road tracks!
:-)
Best regards,
Tom