So What Did I do Wrong? Lessons for First Time Builders

[Jazzman]

I am really thrilled with how my car turned out. It is exactly like I want it to be. But lets be honest, there are some lessons learned through the build process and after completion. There are still a few things that I wish I had done differently. So here is my list of lessons learned through this process. They are in no particular order, just as I happen to think of them. Feel free to chime in with your lessons for first time builders.

1. Believe you can do more than you ever thought possible! I learned so much through this process, did things I never imagined I could do. Do not underestimate your ability to learn, or the willingness of these Factory Five forum friends to help you to achieve greatness.

2. Don't Powder coat everything. I wasted a lot of money on powder coating things that no one will ever see. Think about what will actually be seen, and coat that. If it will be covered by carpet, or only seen if the car is upside down, perhaps it is not necessary.

3. Work much harder on modifying the DS footbox to gain every last inch of available space. That footbox is uncomfortably small. I should have widened it on the right side. Since I did the flip top, widening it on left would have been much more difficult, but on a traditional build, there is more space to be had there.

4. Pre-plan the overall build extremely thoroughly before you buy the kit. I ended up replacing or modifying a lot of parts that perhaps I didn't need to buy. Examples? The Stainless side pipes and the upgraded leather seats. I wanted that Stainless look, but the stock pipes are just too loud, even for my old rock-n-roll ears!! I probably would have been better served to accept the stock pipes, then buy upgraded aftermarket pipes with mufflers already installed. The leather seats are fine, but when I went with an upgraded interior, they got replaced. I didn't know what I didn't know.

5. Begin planning your next build while you are still building your first build! I already miss the build process immensely. I don't yet have a "next" project. I am working on it, but nothing has solidified yet. (Patience has never been my virtue!!)

6. Do what YOU want. (Unless you are building specifically for resale and profit. Then seek therapy and come back to reality!!) Opinions are like navels: everybody's got one! If it is a safety or dependability issue, of course listen to those who really know these cars. But as for stripe or no stripe, blue vs black vs red vs orange, old school vs new school, and every other cosmetic decision, work to YOUR OWN vision! These are not "original" priceless collector cars. These are "Cobra flavored" custom cars that are amazing pieces of personal art meant to drive and enjoy and make a personal statement. Relish that freedom!

7. Seriously consider a two or four post lift if you are over the age of 40!! My knees still hurt!

8. Expect to go over budget. It happens. Prepare for it and don't fight it. If this is your one and only build, you don't want to spend the rest of your life saying "if I only had done . . ." Do it right.

I am sure I will think of other things as I continue to drive the car and reflect on my decisions. That's enough for today. Please add your lessons!

[David Hodgkins]

I hear ya about researching before buying! I researched and spec'd my build for a YEAR I STILL ended up with a complete mustang GT brake kit that I dumped once I found out I could get Wilwoods inside my 15" pin drive wheels.

I cut out my e-brake bracket and went with a now non-functional tunnel mount lokar.

I also have an extra set of leather seats.

I didn't have a lift for the first build, but I'm thankful I had it for the 2nd!!

:)

[Straversi]

#7, #7 and ahh #7!

In the beginning I was cruising along thinking , I don't need a lift. As I get closer to the end it seems like I'm on my back or twisted under the car for every task. They seem like a bargain now.

-Steve

[broku518]

Hi Jazzman,
Totally agree on your points above. Your build is incredible and inspiring.

Here is my 2c.
1/ I am still amazed at my capabilities. Every time I open the garage I can't help it but stare at my creation.
3/ Good point. I can only wear certain shoes. It works with other shoes, but I need to be careful.
4/ I am a total novice. I built out of the box. I am getting some ideas now, but this will be more for later upgrades and tweaks.
5/ I am eyeing the Coupe 56 R type. But would like to make it street legal.
8/ budget?! ;)

[Ducky2009]

Great comments! Luckily, I've changed a few things in-process, but not too many.

[KenWilkinson]

#7, #7 and ahh #7!

In the beginning I was cruising along thinking , I don't need a lift. As I get closer to the end it seems like I'm on my back or twisted under the car for every task. They seem like a bargain now.

-Steve

Came across this idea on a visit up NORTH to Wallace18. Great guy BTW. I'm going to see if this could work for me.

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipNLIQbLq_E1Saby-2U0aSLF5E_fsdPa2QlkCtpfGKcm96VwSFBCTvh5d3l03JKyLA? key=anVUdWt5WTRQUFlqYlhYY0kwTGlOM09TYlZVR2FR

[TheBabyBadger]

JAZZMAN!

BEAUTIFUL BUILD! Love the write up! I can't tell you how many times I've wanted to buy something or order something and keep reminding myself to WAIT. This isn't a clutch I'm throwing in... it's a build. Plenty of time to add, change and modify AFTER I get started.

I agree with waiting before powder-coating everything under the sun... at least until it's in the go-kart stage and the body is fitted to powder-coat. It seems to be everyone's first step, and SO MUCH of the car (Coupe in my case) is hidden, or near impossible to see.

#8. should be the 11th commandment! Haha... I haven't even started building yet... and I'm WAY OVER budget!

Thanks again for the solid write up! Great to have some post-build feedback to push others along with less hassle!

-Brian

[wareaglescott]

#8 is ridiculous Kevin....if you don't have a budget you cant be over budget! lol

[TheBabyBadger]

#8 is ridiculous Kevin....if you don't have a budget you cant be over budget! lol

Touche!

[edwardb]

All great points Kevin. Every good project needs a "lessons learned" review before closing. So good post. We're going to have to agree to disagree about the powder coat thing. This is one of this things I don't quite get all the hand wringing about, to be honest. If you want the natural look, I get that. Go with it everywhere. But if you're going to start powder coating panels, the difference between what is seen and what is "not seen" is literally maybe a couple hundred bucks. Peanuts compared to the overall budget. (What budget? :)) And there's just one chance to do it. But then my definition of what is seen also includes the bottom, inside the wheel wells, etc. That lift you're talking about (which I agree with 100%, huge difference) exposes all those "not seen" panels immediately. Again though, your point 6, do what you want is great advice for all builders.

[Itchief]

Take your time and watch the for sale section of this forum you could save a lot of cash and get a very nice roadster to make your own

If you just have to build one that I would love to do again if my bank account could stand the hit build the car you want the way you want

Budget I tried not to keep up with every purchase but the cost is always going to be more than your estimated cost. My wife told me that it would cost about 50k before it was completed and she was very close.

Yes I learned a lot during the build and would do it again if I had the chance

Rick

[Fixit]

Totally agree with #2
With the exception of the frame and maybe the wheelhouse tins/panels that could catch rocks it's an un-necessary expense. You can buy CASES of self-etch primer and rattle-can color for the several hundred bucks it'll cost to PC the tins. Apply these funds to options, accessories, or cool tools!

#7... ahhh
If I could fit one into the 40-Watt Garage it'd already be there... but there aren't many of us who have a totally dedicated workspace/shop with 10' ceilings. Like me, most are compromised by the better half having space to park... we can encroach for a limited time, but not take over - or working in a space that was built to PARK cars... not assemble one!

#6... Build what you want.
Totally agree! What really appeals to me is that I'm building a brand-new car. Every piece/part is readily available.
"Resto-Modding" a '50s/'60s classic is an exercise in frustration - Do I alter an irreplaceable classic? Where am I going to find a 50yo fender/hood/quarter? Repro parts SUCK - they don't fit... with a "new" car build, all the anxiety of unrestrained dogs and stray baby-strollers is lowered!

[edwardb]

Totally agree with #2
With the exception of the frame and maybe the wheelhouse tins/panels that could catch rocks it's an un-necessary expense. You can buy CASES of self-etch primer and rattle-can color for the several hundred bucks it'll cost to PC the tins. Apply these funds to options, accessories, or cool tools!

Time has value too, and I'm not interested in the considerable time (and mess) of prepping, priming, and painting all the tins. Aside from the appearance and durability of a rattle can painted finish vs. a powder coated finish.

Not trying to argumentative, but "unnecessary expense" in this case is an opinion. Reference point #6.

[Al_C]

Kevin - great points!
1. I get my head handed to me every time I start a new task. I have and continue to learn every time I step in to the garage. Couldn't agree with you more.
2. I powder coated what you can see, and I agree - if it's going to be covered by carpet, don't worry about it. Nevertheless, I learned to do powder coating myself and have done all the small parts that would otherwise rust or look bad.
8. I should have had a budget. I don't. Not wise. Because.... if I do what I want, as noted in #6, I end up spending more. (My solution to date has been to do my best to sell more software!) I'm not sure I want to total all the miscellaneous expenditures, but at some point I probably will. I don't think it will be as bad as it could be. My wife still comments on all the boxes that show up on our doorstep!

I have to pass on one really good comment - from Jeff Kleiner. One time when I was complaining about how long this is taking me and about time availability, he reminded me "don't forget - this is a hobby". Good advice. I can only speak for myself: you just need to keep everything in perspective and enjoy the journey!

[Railroad]

I don't know about being wrong, but be ready to forfeit the space the car takes up. Unless you can build fast like some of the guys, the car, frame, body, etc will be there for the duration. I am in my second year and fortunate enough to have a separate building with a lift. I am still getting crowded.

[GoDadGo]

You Forgot Lesson #9

9. You meet the most amazing, most caring, finest and wonderful people on earth, both in person and online, when you build a Factory Five.

Regarding lesson #6, #7 and 8; well those are pretty good lessons too.

Spelling Correction / Been Up All Night

[TheBabyBadger]

Time has value too, and I'm not interested in the considerable time (and mess) of prepping, priming, and painting all the tins. Aside from the appearance and durability of a rattle can painted finish vs. a powder coated finish.

Not trying to argumentative, but "unnecessary expense" in this case is an opinion. Reference point #6.

Very well put, sir. I think we all get both sides. I feel like the real lesson is: If you're gonna do it, just do them all don't split hairs on what's seen. Or be happy with raw. Don't half *** it. I personally would powder coat over the paint/prep mess ANYDAY if I decided to do it!

[TheBabyBadger]

You Forgot Lesson #9

9. You meat the most amazing, most caring, finest and wonderful people on earth, both in person and online, when you build a Factory Five.

Regarding lesson #6, #7 and 8; well those are pretty good lessons too.

Probably the most important lesson so far. I haven't even started my build and I'm blown away at all the support from locals, and you guys. Thanks in advance for those who haven't hesitate to PM or let me text/call them to get things dialed before delivery.

YOU GUYS ARE AWESOME!

[SDhemmings]

Yep, all great points, I too learned a lot and found a great local and on line group to talk to and learn from. One more point is set a timeline to keep your self honest about accomplishing each step but be flexible and willing to adjust that timeline. I received my Kit Jan of '17 and was aiming at this May to have it on the road but decided to delay till 2019. I have discovered that there is a lot of things that I just have to do to it and I won't compromise on that or the quality and safety of the car, and I want to enjoy the build and not stress about it.

[Two2Four]

Great post, thank you! Especially helpful for someone like myself who is still in the planning/budgeting phase.

[Jazzman]

#8 is ridiculous Kevin....if you don't have a budget you cant be over budget! lol

Then I was right on budget!! :cool:

[Jazzman]

All great points Kevin. Every good project needs a "lessons learned" review before closing. So good post. We're going to have to agree to disagree about the powder coat thing. This is one of this things I don't quite get all the hand wringing about, to be honest. If you want the natural look, I get that. Go with it everywhere. But if you're going to start powder coating panels, the difference between what is seen and what is "not seen" is literally maybe a couple hundred bucks. Peanuts compared to the overall budget. (What budget? :)) And there's just one chance to do it. But then my definition of what is seen also includes the bottom, inside the wheel wells, etc. That lift you're talking about (which I agree with 100%, huge difference) exposes all those "not seen" panels immediately. Again though, your point 6, do what you want is great advice for all builders.

You are absolutely right IF you do all the powder coating at once. I tried naively to spread out the cost by doing a few panels now and a few panels next month, and a few panels the next, etc. Stupid!! If you are going to powder coat everything, do it all at once!! In hindsight I still think I would do every panel, but I would plan to do it all at once.

[Jazzman]

I have to pass on one really good comment - from Jeff Kleiner. One time when I was complaining about how long this is taking me and about time availability, he reminded me "don't forget - this is a hobby". Good advice. I can only speak for myself: you just need to keep everything in perspective and enjoy the journey!

You and Jeff are so right. This is a HOBBY. I am not, nor do I want to be a professional that earns my money building cars. That would tear the joy right out of it! I miss the build process so much!! The daily challenge, the daily mental exercise, the feeling of success in conquering the next step in the build. This is a GREAT HOBBY!!

[Jazzman]

You Forgot Lesson #9

9. You meet the most amazing, most caring, finest and wonderful people on earth, both in person and online, when you build a Factory Five.

Regarding lesson #6, #7 and 8; well those are pretty good lessons too.

Spelling Correction / Been Up All Night

Absolutely spot on, Dad!!

[Jazzman]

You Forgot Lesson #9
9. You meet the most amazing, most caring, finest and wonderful people on earth, both in person and online, when you build a Factory Five


I am really struggling to decide on my next project, and a big part of it is the amazing group of people in the FFR Family. I am considering some sort of a Porsche 911 restomod, building a 1956 Ford F100 or a 1967 Mustang Fastback (both already totally "done", what more could I add?) perhaps a 1951 Mercury Eight "Lead Sled", or considering holding out for whatever the next great FFR project that comes out. All have their relative merits, but only the FFR comes with this family as "standard equipment". I am just as glad I don't have to make a decision today! In case I haven't said so recently, THANK YOU to all of you for making the world a better place by your friendship!

[Fixit]

Concerning "Powder Coating"... a tip:

A couple of years ago my Chevelle club toured a local PC outfit.
Their "bread & butter" is contract jobs with local manufacturing shops, doing large batches of parts on quick turn-around, using "standard" colors (black, white, red, blue, etc.)

Talk to the PC shop. Ask them specifically what "state of prep" your pieces need to be in for coating, and do what they need to get them ready.

Now... if you can wait for a bit, and don't want your parts done in "Evening Orchid Pastel Purple", most shops will tag-along your parts into one of their big patches of contract parts, and do them in that batch... at significant savings to doing them on a onesy-twosy basis.

[BossRabbit]

4. Pre-plan the overall build extremely thoroughly before you buy the kit. I ended up replacing or modifying a lot of parts that perhaps I didn't need to buy. Examples? The Stainless side pipes and the upgraded leather seats. I wanted that Stainless look, but the stock pipes are just too loud, even for my old rock-n-roll ears!! I probably would have been better served to accept the stock pipes, then buy upgraded aftermarket pipes with mufflers already installed. The leather seats are fine, but when I went with an upgraded interior, they got replaced. I didn't know what I didn't know.


Does anyone have any tips for planning? Resources to study? I'm in this stage and have the time to make the best go of it.

[Jazzman]

Does anyone have any tips for planning? Resources to study? I'm in this stage and have the time to make the best go of it.

Your best resources are right here at your fingertips. Almost everything you will ever do in your build has already been done by someone else on the forums. Read everything you can and make notes of those items that seem to apply to your vision.

It was suggested to me that I develop a comprehensive "Build Plan". Since I didn't really know what that was or what to put on it, I just started making an excel spreadsheet and listed everything I could possibly think of to build the car. I missed a lot of stuff. I added a lot of stuff. Some of it was a good idea, some of it was a waste of money. I will be happy to send you my build Plan, but it is woefully out of date. Perhaps I will go through my list of actual expenses and see what items did not get onto the original build plan. Now you are giving me homework!! OK. Let me see what I can come up with. I need a project. This will do! Perhaps I will even learn something that I can use on my next build. Give me a few days to see what I can put together.

[SilverFox]

Your best resources are right here at your fingertips. Almost everything you will ever do in your build has already been done by someone else on the forums. Read everything you can and make notes of those items that seem to apply to your vision.

It was suggested to me that I develop a comprehensive "Build Plan". Since I didn't really know what that was or what to put on it, I just started making an excel spreadsheet and listed everything I could possibly think of to build the car. I missed a lot of stuff. I added a lot of stuff. Some of it was a good idea, some of it was a waste of money. I will be happy to send you my build Plan, but it is woefully out of date. Perhaps I will go through my list of actual expenses and see what items did not get onto the original build plan. Now you are giving me homework!! OK. Let me see what I can come up with. I need a project. This will do! Perhaps I will even learn something that I can use on my next build. Give me a few days to see what I can put together.

As a potential FF builder I would greatly appreciate seeing someone's completed build plan.
I'm just finishing my 2 yr restomod of a 69 Mustang that my sister bought in 1970.....it's staying in the family, so i'm already looking for my next project.

[Bob Brandle]

Kevin, I just discovered this new thread of yours and, as you can imagine and as you personally know, I’m one lucky future FFR kit owner/builder.
Having helped design, build and campaign three race cars back in my 20s (Trans-Am / IMSA GT Series Camaro and two Monza GTs), I recently moved from Calif. to, totally by chance, as you know, just 4 miles from you in Scottsdale, AZ. So, combining my experiences with your specific FFR Roadster build experiences and knowledge, plus your offered some hands on help all on top of the wonderful Factory Five Forum family, I’m so looking forward to the journey I’m about to start.
I agree with so many of your points of wisdom and also those adding their own thoughts. Yes, the planning is so important, as well as build to my own desired outcome of a slightly modernized car with some uniquely custom design aspects for what I want in my car, a Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe…..and Enjoy the Journey!!
I just want to give one additional shout out of appreciation to Edwardb and his superb builds and Forum documentation of both his last MKIV Roadster and his current Gen 3 Coupe build. I’m watching the Gen 3 Coupe build quite closely and plan on being about 10 months behind you, so that means a likely October 2018 Start for me. Now, let me get that order form ready. FYI, there are a number of other Builds that I have studied and follow and appreciate them too.
Bob

[2bking]

I agree with most everything said here. I did a build plan and put a lot of recommendations into a spread sheet with links to the thread, part numbers, vendors, price, etc. I also bought a lot of stuff that I didn't use mostly because I changed my mind. My fault, didn't do enough research or bought before the kit showed up. They added up to about $2,000 of which I sold off at the end of my build for pennies on the dollar. I do have one regret, that is using the Infinity Wiring. I like everything about it except having to have a trickle charger on the car while it's parked for longer than a few days.



2. Don't Powder coat everything. I wasted a lot of money on powder coating things that no one will ever see. Think about what will actually be seen, and coat that. If it will be covered by carpet, or only seen if the car is upside down, perhaps it is not necessary.

Find an old oven and get the Eastwood powder coating kit. It is easy to do and quick. Downside is the size of parts that will fit into a standard oven. For the larger panels have a plan for rattle can or send them out. There are a lot of small parts in the kit as well as custom ones that fit just fine. I like the quick turn around of making a part and having it ready to bolt on in about thirty minutes.

[DanM]

Your best resources are right here at your fingertips. Almost everything you will ever do in your build has already been done by someone else on the forums. Read everything you can and make notes of those items that seem to apply to your vision.

It was suggested to me that I develop a comprehensive "Build Plan". Since I didn't really know what that was or what to put on it, I just started making an excel spreadsheet and listed everything I could possibly think of to build the car. I missed a lot of stuff. I added a lot of stuff. Some of it was a good idea, some of it was a waste of money. I will be happy to send you my build Plan, but it is woefully out of date. Perhaps I will go through my list of actual expenses and see what items did not get onto the original build plan. Now you are giving me homework!! OK. Let me see what I can come up with. I need a project. This will do! Perhaps I will even learn something that I can use on my next build. Give me a few days to see what I can put together.

That would be awesome. I'm in Ottawa and planning to start my build next spring. I don't know if their are many builders in this area so i'm reading the forum every day on the bus to work to get as much info as I can.