2015 Ford Coyote crate engine trouble codes

[Stanley Mcclellan]

I haven’t evr posted on this forum but this will be a good one. I have a new 2015 Coyote 5.0 crate engine with the Ford Control pak. It now has 400 miles on it and has run great until 2 weeks ago. When accelerating from a stop it jerks and jumps terribly. and when cheked with m tech tool i get troubl codes P0012 and P0022 which is timing over retard on banks #1 and #2. I have changed oil, VCT solenoids,changed cam position sensors and still have the problem. However I can disconnect the two cam shaft positin intake sensors on the back of my engine and it runs great! Does anyone have any insight into my problem. The pcm has been back to Ford Tech in Dearborn and it operates their test engine perfectly without codes. I plan to call them again today and ask for a design, driveability enginer to explain to me how this can happen. my though is could the exhaus cam shaft sensors be controlling my engne cam position n a redndunt way?

[edwardb]

I can't offer any solutions. Only several observations. First time I've heard of this particular problem on these forums. And a bunch of us are running the same exact engine/control pack as you. I doubt very much it's a design issue. If Ford is telling you the PCM tests OK, then the only thing left is something on the engine itself. The fact that it was working OK until a couple weeks ago suggests something broke. I would think the support team/engineers at Ford would be able to tell you the likely suspects. I don't have nearly enough knowledge to know of the parts you've changed already are the possible culprits.

FWIW, quick Google search on these codes with the Coyote mention (1) cam phasers, although seems strange both would fail at the same time, (2) defective or plugged VCT solenoids, but you indicate you've already changed those, (3) issues with chain drive and tensioners.

One other sort-of off topic observation. Hopefully you have the MIL wired up an visible? Not good practice IMO to only know the engine is throwing codes because it's not running right. Mine has lit the light a couple of times for issues that were resolved, and I would never have known to check for codes by the way it was running. Maybe you do have the light, but the way you wrote the post doesn't sound like it.

[wareaglescott]

Adding to what Paul said I had quite the mystery issue myself and sent my PCM to Ford and it tested good on their bench. After many hours and discussions it turned out the wiring harness was bad and I had to replace the entire thing. Now my codes/issues where completely different than yours so I am not saying it is your harness. Just wanted to give you the thought that if you know the PCM is not the issue that leaves two other possibilities. The engine itself or the harness. That probably does not give you much help but maybe something else to consider.

[Railroad]

Oil change and then the problem. Verify oil level is correct, correct wt of oil, change filter, clear the codes and try it.

[edwardb]

Oil change and then the problem. Verify oil level is correct, correct wt of oil, change filter, clear the codes and try it.

Maybe. But he listed oil change as one of the actions taken after the problem started occurring. It is absolutely true that oil makes a difference though. I questioned a very slight occasional "miss" (if that's the right word, that's how it felt) with my tuner. He looked at the data and confirmed the engine/oil wasn't up to temp and the phasers weren't keeping up. He said to take it easy until I was at operating temp. Something I should have known and been doing anyway.

[Stanley Mcclellan]

Yes, I agree with that also. I had Ford reflash
Because of getting a dyno tune and thinking
maybe the tune could be the problem. In
other words i threw away $1000 by not
testing the pcm before reflashing. This is one
sweet engine combination that has run perfectly.
Thanks for all of your help! You may remember
I talked with you a couple of times on the
phone in 2016. Again, thanks!

[Stanley Mcclellan]

take a stab at why it runs perfectly with both intake camshaft position sensors disconnected. because of this I do not believe anything is broken! yes the Mil is wired and flashes everytime I cut the switch on just to let me know it is working.
Now the light only goes out when I clear the codes but comes back whnever I try to accelerate.

[Stanley Mcclellan]

I cannot disagree with your thought process about it being either the engne or wiring harness. Thanks!

[Stanley Mcclellan]

it really would b strange if both banks 1 & 2 on a new engine had mechanical problems. just imagine how high tech this engine is controling the time with oil pressure which needs to be at operating temperature and correct viscosity. thanks for your thoughts!

[Stanley Mcclellan]

when I mention design I would like to know 1. how it runs perfect without the Camshaft position sensors hooked up
2. can the exhaust cam shaft sensors b providing the signal for the pcm to control timing.
3. what would happen if all 4 camshaft position sensors were disconnected.
my 3 grandsons are in the shop (all under 7) and I am talking to them about this problem!

[Railroad]

Stanley, I am north of Bham. I am installing a Coyote, but not ready to crank. On your question about disconnecting the cam adjusters, I am sure they use a centering device, ie a spring. Once you disconnect them the adjusters center up between adv and retard. This is my theory, I have not researched how they are designed. I would be careful running with the sensors disconnected. You would hope Ford designed a default position that would not create piston to valve interference, but I do not know. I would study what parameters have input to cam position and do a quick check on their condition. Just for example, engine rpm, engine manifold vacuum, throttle position, engine temp, oil pressure, etc. Hope you are having some success with this.

[Svtfreak]

Railroad, I have not verified this info myself, but I read once that there are mechanical limits to valve timing that won’t let the valves hit the pistons.

[Railroad]

Railroad, I have not verified this info myself, but I read once that there are mechanical limits to valve timing that won’t let the valves hit the pistons.

That would make sense. Thanks

[Stanley Mcclellan]

sent my computer to Ford. they say it doesn’t have a problem. this weekend I ohm my computer wires, checked voltage and reference voltage. Ford Tech found when monitoring PID’s that v reference is a solid 5.0 volts as it should be but the V-power PID varies voltage from 9 to 23 volts and just so happens that my cam sensors go crazy at the same time the V power spikes up and down. We believe the computer must be bad. Railroad would you call me n McCalla at 205-477-3487?
plase some thoughts on this.

[Stanley Mcclellan]

what was your problem with the wiring harness?