Power steering Ball Joints

[eamici]

8489684897

I hope the two pictures I just tried to attach come through.

Having difficulty installing the power steering rack to the front spindles. As you can see from the first pic, that's as far down the spindle will slide down the ball joint shaft. Once i put the spindle on the ball joint, there is only about a quarter inch of threaded shaft to screw on the lock nut.

Lastly, when I do get the whole thing together and start turning the wrench, the ball joint shaft start turning with the nut, so I can torque until Christmas but the nut won't progress.

FYI in the pics I removed the rubber cover so you can see the shaft better.

[Papa]

Take a look at post #86 on page #3 of my build thread and see if your setup looks like mine. It's hard to get any point of reference from your picture. My build thread is linked in my signature.

Dave

[edwardb]

Any chance you have the spindle steering arms installed incorrectly and the taper is the wrong direction? That's exactly how they would act if you were trying to put the ball stud into the small end of the taper.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Any chance you have the spindle steering arms installed incorrectly and the taper is the wrong direction? That's exactly how they would act if you were trying to put the ball joint into the small end of the taper.

My thought exactly!

Jeff

[Itchief]

Check to see if the tie rod will install properly from the top of the steering arm

If they install properly from the top you need to swap the steering arms to the opposite side so that the taper is correct

Rick

[jrcuz]

I did the same thing and was set straight by jeff. Swap them left to right and right to left, problem solved.
JR

[eamici]

Thanks to all. I'll have to wait until tomorrow to get to my garage, but I have a feeling that you guys hit the nail on the head.

[lewma]

I just looked at mine tonight and I too have them the wrong way around :(

[CraigS]

Yah, FFR uses the same steering arm for both the roadster and 33 hotrod. The roadster has them ahead of the spindle while the 33 has them behind the spindle. I 'think' I remember they are marked for the 33.

[initiator]

There are a number of us in the 'installed it the wrong way first time' club, so don't let it get you down. I just got done pulling my Coyote and replacing the flywheel bolts because I didn't realize they were one-time use. Just keep reading the forums and doing your best.

[Snowdak]

See my post above about separating Lca ball joint that’s what I did real pain to swap them Manuel should explain taper to fix this problem.

[eamici]

Just to close this topic out...you guys that said I had them installed reversed were right!!!! Thanks again. I don't know what I would to without this forum.

[ChienKuo]

I am in the 'first time assemble wrong club' also.. I was realized to swap need too much work and don't want touch spindle, hub area, so, I end up using grinding stone to grind out taper.
8507885079

[initiator]

I am in the 'first time assemble wrong club' also.. I was realized to swap need too much work and don't want touch spindle, hub area, so, I end up using grinding stone to grind out taper.
8507885079

I'm not a suspension engineer, but I am a mechanical engineer. That joint is designed to be taper-on-taper, that is both the post and socket are tapered to fit. The taper design spreads the load out over a large area while maintaining very tight centerline alignment. By removing one of the tapers, you change the load point to a single circle instead of a cone. That's a stress concentration and could easily lead to cracks and failure. It also allows movement in the joint when there shouldn't be any.

I'd strongly recommend taking the time to go back and replace the modified parts and install them correctly. You REALLY don't want to lose steering control when it fails.

EDIT: In retrospect, let me be more blunt: Driving a car with the steering linkage modified like this could lead to crash and death. Please fix it.

[ChienKuo]

Initiator, thanks for really good advice and thoughts.. I did not realize the problem may lead to the huge failure..
I will need to reorder the piece from FFR to replace it..

[Boydster]

I am in the 'first time assemble wrong club' also.. I was realized to swap need too much work and don't want touch spindle, hub area, so, I end up using grinding stone to grind out taper.
8507885079

Wow, yes, please replace the steering arm. Should be easier to align, too.

[Jeff Kleiner]

X3, do it right and replace the arms.

Jeff

[FLPBFoot]

You have a 50 50 chance of getting them right. I lost! Removed mine tonight and change them from side to side. Pulled the hubs off the spindles as an easier way than removing the lower control arm ball joint. Removing that spindle nut torqued to 230 ft lbs was a bear! Only took me about 45 minutes and had to re-lock tight the caliper bolts. Now that I look at the the steering arms they look like they go on the way I have them now. FFR could improve their instructions here!

[eamici]

Ha! I feel your pain. Thats what i did all day as well. Now that its installed correctly how do you line up the wheels so they are perfectly parallel?

[Papa]

Ha! I feel your pain. Thats what i did all day as well. Now that its installed correctly how do you line up the wheels so they are perfectly parallel?

First you should center the rack. An easy way to do this is to have the tie rod ends off the rack for now and then turn the wheel to one side to full lock. Measure the distance from the end of the tie rod to the rack body (measurement A). Now turn the wheel completely to full lock in the other direction and measure the length of the tie rod end to the rack body on the same side as measurement A. This is measurement B. Subtract B from A and divide by 2 (Measurement C). Now turn the wheel until the tie rod length from the end to the rack body is equal to measurement C. Your rack is centered.

Dave

[eamici]

I'm a little confused.
1) By "full lock" do you mean turn the wheel until it can't go any farther?
2) Which way do you turn the wheel, in or out?

[Papa]

I'm a little confused.
1) By "full lock" do you mean turn the wheel until it can't go any farther?
2) Which way do you turn the wheel, in or out?

Yes, full lock means as far as it will go. It doesn't matter which way you turn to start or which side of the rack you are making measurements from - just be sure all measurements are from the same side. I realized I missed a step in my original post, so here is a more complete step-by-step:

1. Turn the wheel all the way to the left
2. Measure from the end of the tie rod to the rack body on the left (driver's) side (Measurement A)
3. Turn the wheel all the way to the right
4. Measure from the end of the tie rod to the rack body on the left (driver's) side (Measurement B)
5. Subtract B from A and divide by 2 (Measurement C)
6. Add Measurement B and Measurement C (Measurement D)
7. Turn the wheel back to the left until the distance from the tie rod end to the rack body on the left (driver's) side is equal to measurement Measurement D.

Your rack will now be centered.

Example (actual measurements will be different!):

A = 13"
B = 8"
C = (13-8) / 2 = 2.5
D = 8 + 2.5 = 10.5

The rack is centered when the tie rod end is 10.5" from the rack body on the left (driver's) side.

[eamici]

Please describe what you mean by "rack body". Sorry I'm kinda a newbie at the terminology.

[Papa]

Please describe what you mean by "rack body". Sorry I'm kinda a newbie at the terminology.

The rack body is the portion of the steering rack that doesn't move.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=85128&d=1525039144

[eamici]

Wow. That is so cool with the labels! Thanks again.

[eamici]

I'm not clear as to why you recommend in an earlier entry to perform this with the tie rod ends removed. Without these, moving the wheel has no effect on the the rod positions and measurements.

[Papa]

I'm not clear as to why you recommend in an earlier entry to perform this with the tie rod ends removed. Without these, moving the wheel has no effect on the the rod positions and measurements.

The steering wheel is the wheel I'm referring to in my instructions. Sorry, I thought that was a given.