Ball joints

[Packer fan]

Hi,
Does anyone know what kind or size the FFV front ball joints are.

I will at least need a new rubber boot and possibly a new ball joint.
I have been trying to remove the front spindle adapter so that I can put on the mk4 spindles when they show up. They don’t want to come off and I have been beating on the first one with the nut on the end. I then looked on line for the answer and saw that I need pickle forks or a hf ball joint removal tool.
How much hammering on the ball joints will the bearings take ? Or should I replace the 1 that I have been beating on as a precaution, now that I know how to remove them.

[edwardb]

Factory Five has been supplying Mevotech MK772 upper ball joints for some time now. Some (including me) have had issues getting those to screw into the UCA. But others have been able to get them to work. Moog K772's are arguably a better part, although not immune from installation issues either. Both come with boots, but the Energy Suspension 5.13102G boots are vastly superior. Highly recommended. If you want to go off the deep end with the upper ball joints, some of us have used Howe Racing 22320S ball joints. At $65 apiece, a big price jump. And that doesn't include boots. But it's a very nice part and never any installation issues.

[Bren]

I can second Edward's suggestion of the Energy Suspension boots. I just recently changed mine out and they are vastly superior to the stiff blue boots that came with the kit. Mine had been wrinkled for so long that they were deformed. I think it was because I had them on for so long while the front suspension was in full droop during the build, but I'm not certain. Anyway, replace them while you're at it.

[Packer fan]

Thanks for the advice and part numbers.

Done

[CraigS]

As you search for the upper BJs, once you get beyond the 'what make and model car do you have?' you will see that the 772 number is used frequently as part of whatever supplier number you are looking at. It is a good double check whether what you are looking at is correct.

[SnowCobra]

Edward, I noticed the FFR stock upper ball joints are pretty rough moving the ball around, although one of mine is much better than the other. Do you find the Moog or Howe ball joints move much more freely/smoothly? And what are your thoughts on lower ball joints? Again, my stock lowers a rather stiff and I certainly wouldn't describe their movement as smooth. Thanks for the help! - Ryan -

[edwardb]

Edward, I noticed the FFR stock upper ball joints are pretty rough moving the ball around, although one of mine is much better than the other. Do you find the Moog or Howe ball joints move much more freely/smoothly? And what are your thoughts on lower ball joints? Again, my stock lowers a rather stiff and I certainly wouldn't describe their movement as smooth. Thanks for the help! - Ryan -

Also responded to your PM. The Moog ball joints are a little smoother than the FF provided Mevotech ball joints, and perhaps higher quality. Although it's debatable and I don't have any data. Both would feel differently after being driven. The Howe ball joints are in a different class than both and are smooth, tight, and free right out of the box. But they're also a lot more money. Does it make a difference? Certainly can't hurt, but I can't say because I haven't done a before and after comparison. My motivation for different ball joints was very basic. I've done two builds when the Mevotechs were supplied and in both cases I couldn't get them to screw into the upper control arm. Tried varies tricks suggested, all unsuccessfully. In every case the Howe parts went in without drama and fit perfectly. That made them a win for me. Any additional improvement to the suspension and ride is a bonus. I've never changed lower ball joints. They're pressed in and wouldn't be so easy to change. They will feel a little tight right out of the box. But will be fine once they get some miles on them.

[CraigS]

Ball joints in general are a tight fit and it's quite common for them to feel stiff when moving them by hand. Trying to move that tapered stud that is only about 2 inches long gives no leverage. I think that the manufacturers know they are a crude product so they make them tight and then they can wear themselves smooth. OTOH smooth is really nice so I have BJs similar to the Howes from QA1
https://www.qa1.net/suspension/ball-joints

[AC Bill]

Is the hf removal tool you mention, a ball joint press?

[Benchwarmer]

I hate to bring this up from the dead, but does this part number with for a MK3?

[steno]

Yes

[JohnT]

Just sharing… I found the Harbor Freight ball joint separator the perfect size for removing at least the upper ball joint. The 3/4in spread was perfect for getting under while not too big to fall off the edge of the spindle flat surface.

http://www.harborfreight.com/3-4-quarter-inch-forged-ball-joint-separator-99849.html

[Ejzajac]

Inflation? Tariffs? Howe Racing Ball joints are quite nice. But now selling at $95.00 without a boot. I better keep working to pay for all of this!
Ed Z

[rich grsc]

DO NOT waste $$$$ on the Howe ball joints. They provide no improvements for the money. I helped a friend install a set on his car, even though I tried to talk him out of it, he was very unhappy as the car handled exactly the same

[Jeff Kleiner]

DO NOT waste $$$$ on the Howe ball joints. They provide no improvements for the money. I helped a friend install a set on his car, even though I tried to talk him out of it, he was very unhappy as the car handled exactly the same

But Rich, you're forgetting the #1 rule of building one of these cars---"If it costs more it's better"

:p

Jeff

[edwardb]

DO NOT waste $$$$ on the Howe ball joints. They provide no improvements for the money. I helped a friend install a set on his car, even though I tried to talk him out of it, he was very unhappy as the car handled exactly the same


But Rich, you're forgetting the #1 rule of building one of these cars---"If it costs more it's better"

:p

Jeff

OK guys, for the counterpoint: I've used the Howe parts several times. Each time for one reason alone. Maybe I'm the most unlucky person in the world, but I've never been able to get the kit supplied Mevotech ball joints to go into the UCA's. Even tried some Moog ones a couple builds ago. One went in OK. The other locked up several turns in like the Mevotechs. Just a couple weeks ago, I did every trick I've read about on here trying to get the Mevotechs to work on my Mk5 build. Including using a wire brush wheel to completely remove the finish on the Mevotech threads. Went in a little more than before but still well short of the mark and they were locking hard. I've briefly tried the method shown in the FF manual, e.g. putting the ball joint in a bench vise and rotating the UCA around it. I stopped when tit basically became impossible for me to turn any further and I was afraid I'd never get them back off again should it be necessary in the future. Let along the possible damage that method does. I've seen some pics on here of guys really chewing up the ball joints using this method. Not how I roll.

So each time I hit the wall, I've bit the bullet and bought the Howe parts (yes they've gotten more expensive, just like everything...) and they went in perfectly. I've never suggested the car would handle better with the Howe parts. But on the other hand the car handles like crxp without upper ball joints, so for me anyway it does handle better with them. :p

[Rian_Colorado]

I've done both, and far prefer the Howe parts from an installation perspective. I can't imagine that there is much difference in performance between the 2.

I WILL say that there's no way I'd use the FFR supplied boots again though.... the Energy boots are way better and stay in place. Any ball joint with NO grease on it doesn't last too long....

RR

[Derald Rice]

In 2022, I changed the upper an lower BJ's to QA-1's as part of a major suspension upgrade that included
replacing all of the poly bushings in the car to heim joints.

And the change was a very positive improvement..

In my case, the change was done for several reasons, one of the primary reasons was that the poly bushings were
starting to dry out and get hard...

And although I cannot say if the change was solely due to the BJ change or due to the heim joints, the total package
was entirely worth it. and the BJ's were a contributing factor.

The new car will get the upgraded heim joints and BJ's as part of its initial build..

[Mike.Bray]

Including using a wire brush wheel to completely remove the finish on the Mevotech threads.

I had the same issue with threading the ball joints in and tried polishing the threads on them, still no go. So I looked closely at the female threads and could see some plating flash. Normally plating doesn't like to go into holes but it was there. I polished the ID threads and the ball joints screwed right in with my hand. I guess in effect I polished both the OD and ID threads with a wire brush.

[edwardb]

I had the same issue with threading the ball joints in and tried polishing the threads on them, still no go. So I looked closely at the female threads and could see some plating flash. Normally plating doesn't like to go into holes but it was there. I polished the ID threads and the ball joints screwed right in with my hand. I guess in effect I polished both the OD and ID threads with a wire brush.

Good for you. At some point this is all pretty silly. Why are we getting parts that take this much effort to work? It is a little suspicious to me anyway that the Howe parts, which appear to have actual cut threads vs. the rolled or whatever threads on the Mevotech and Moog parts I've seen, thread right into the SPC UCA's with zero effort or rework. The ball joints are the common denominator here. I decided a long time ago on these builds that my time and my frustration level have value. Done with this topic.

[rich grsc]

But Rich, you're forgetting the #1 rule of building one of these cars---"If it costs more it's better"

:p

Jeff

But Jeff, it's me, half the people here think I'm just an old cantankerous negative nanny. Absolute hog wash