Do I need to cut front upper control arms

[Murd]

Just about done my mk4 I picked up a year ago. Hoping to get it safetied and aligned sometime in April. Right now I have the adjustment barrels on the front upper control arms both in as far as they go and I have about 1deg of meg camber. I haven’t tried to measure castor. Setup is manual steering, FFR lower control arms, 94-95 sn95 spindles. I’ve read a couple threads on modifying/cutting the adjustment barrels, is this likely necessary to get the recommended 1/2 to 1 deg neg camber and 3 deg castor? Is this something anyone feels I should do before I take it for alignment?

Any suggestions for a rough set up before I take it to the alignment shop?

[CDXXVII]

You should not have to cut anything.

Can you post some photos of your upper arms installed. There are a couple threads that talk about having to change the arrangement of the upper arm components. Not correct as shipped in certain instances.

[skidd]

Yep, you just might have to. Looks like I will be..
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?27330-Unable-to-get-enough-Caster-amp-Camber

[Murd]

CDX, not sure how to post pics here yet, at least from my phone. I already changed the arms around when I installed them, they are correct. If you see the link in skidds post you’ll see others are having to cut too.

I’m also considering doing alignment myself, I’m really in build budget austerity mode now, don’t want to spend much money, any suggestions for a good budget front end alignment kit to do toe, camber and castor? I was just looking at the trnhulzen automotive set up.

[Jeff Kleiner]

You should be able to attain manual rack specs as is (.5 to .75 degree negative camber, 3 degrees positive caster ---castor is an oil ;)--- and 3/32" total toe in). It's when you go to the higher caster ranges for power steering that cutting the sleeves is often necessary.

Jeff

[Murd]

Thanks Jeff I’ll see where it ends up without cutting.

[SteveHsr]

Check that ride height is set correctly first.

[Murd]

Ride height at 4.5”

[SteveHsr]

Lowering ride height will give you a little more negative camber and improve camber gain. (Maybe go to 4in.)

[Murd]

So working on alignment myself, bit tedious but glad I’m doing it. Surprisingly I actually hat to cut the front adjuster on th upper control arm to get the right camber/caster specs.
I’ve only got DS done so far, .55 deg camber, 2.85 deg caster. Close enough?

[CraigS]

So working on alignment myself, bit tedious but glad I’m doing it. Surprisingly I actually hat to cut the front adjuster on th upper control arm to get the right camber/caster specs.
I’ve only got DS done so far, .55 deg camber, 2.85 deg caster. Close enough?

Yep!

[rich grsc]

So working on alignment myself, bit tedious but glad I’m doing it. Surprisingly I actually hat to cut the front adjuster on th upper control arm to get the right camber/caster specs.
I’ve only got DS done so far, .55 deg camber, 2.85 deg caster. Close enough?

I've never seen anyone having to shorten the front adjuster???? You should have negative camber. Is that what you have and just entered the info incorrectly?

[Jeff Kleiner]

...Surprisingly I actually hat to cut the front adjuster on th upper control arm to get the right camber/caster specs.
I’ve only got DS done so far, .55 deg camber, 2.85 deg caster. Close enough?

I have not seen having to cut the front leg but the only one I've done using SN95 spindles with the new UCAs also had an SAI mod so it would be different. One thing I have to wonder---are you SURE you are reading positive caster and not negative. If you were mistakenly setting it for negative it could make sense that the front leg was too long.

Jeff

[Clover]

Is that .55 deg of positive camber? I am not an expert with these cars and have only set the alignment up of a 33 HR in build school, however, I prefer lots of negative camber on my other cars. When you go around a turn, the weight shifts to the outside which normally pushes to top of your wheel out a bit creating positive camber on the wheel that has all the traction and is taking you around the turn. If you start out with negative camber, you end up with the tire flat as you go around the turn which is ideal for the largest contact patch that is rolling with the tires tread design. The downside is you will ware the inside part of the tire quicker then the rest of the tire. If you start off with positive or neutral camber, as you go around a turn quickly,you will roll over to the outside of the tire a little bit which is bad for the tire and traction. My BMW that I DD, AutoX, and do some track days in has -3.25 deg. camber and I had to add camber plates to get there. Hopefully the experts on setting these cars up can chime in here, however, I would think you should consider how you want to drive the car when you are done with it. If you plan to AutoX, track, or go canyon carving, you may want to consider more negative camber.

[Murd]

Should have been specific. Yes .55 deg NEG camber, ie top of wheel in toward the centre of Car. Not sure it is possible to get into negative caster without some drastic adjustments?
Wth both adjusters all the way in, pre cutting, I read about 1 deg neg camber and 6 deg caster. Lengthing the rear adjuster the closest I could get was about .3 deg neg camber and about 3.5 deg caster. Front had to come in just a bit.

FYI I am measuring with a digital level, from rim lip to rim lip, caster calculated by difference of camber angle at 20 deg wheel turn in and 20 deg out X 1.5, ie difference between in and out is 1.9 deg X1.5=2.85 deg caster.
Car is leveled front to back and side to side as measured to bottom of Tire contact.

[SteveHsr]

Your all the way in measurements of -1 degree camber and + 6 degrees caster are pretty good. Slight equal lengthening of adjusters would reduce camber if you like. (Probably lengthen just the front adjuster).

[Murd]

Steve I have manual steering. Recommended set up is supposed to be -.5 camber, 3 caster. I’m there now on both wheels, didn’t have to cut pass side. I’m going to start with the recommended std settings, get it on the road and go from there.

I should also note that the passenger side, with adjusters all the way in was only about -1 and 4 caster, so there is definitely something off from one side to the other.

[CraigS]

I think the build tolerances are close but maybe just slightly less than perfect. When you get the alignment close it is surprising how a small movement affects the readings. I was just going over my alignment this week. A note I made for future reference was this; 1/2 turn on both UCA sleeves changed camber by 1/2 degree. I have also noted in the past that if you get it perfect, and then tighten the jam nuts, your readings will change.

[Murd]

Craig,
I was also assuming there are small build tolerences that would vary side to side.
My current concern is i ran strings to get the wheels straight and set up toe, and found that my solid axle rear end has toe out. I measure about 1/8 total at the rims, so more at the full length of the tires.
Bent rear axle? It’s a donor from an 88 Mustang. It ran and drove fine when I bought it. Axle shafts are new, diff is new, brakes and wheels are new. Any explanation other than bent rear?

[Murd]

Measured rear toe with my toe plates, it’s 7/32 total toe out. I strung the car so it the front and rear are aligned, so it shouldn’t dog track. What are the consequences of having this much rear toe out besides Tire wear? Is it going to try and kill me?