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View Full Version : 2012 Kit - Clutch Pedal Options



John Ibele
03-26-2018, 09:45 PM
After buttoning up the rear suspension, I've turned to the pedal box, where the mockup work went reasonably well over the weekend until hitting a snag or two, typical of a first-time builder.

After noting that the clutch cable quadrant rubbed against the edge of the steel bracket (like everyone else's), and that the spacer shaft was a bit too short to allow the retainer ring to go in neatly (like everyone else's), and that I had actually cut the press-in stud too short by the thickness of the steel bracket (don't ask...), I bumped up against something that needed the advice of folks on the forum.

I finally turfed up information on the offset clutch quadrant design, and noted the difference between my older complete kit instructions and the new pedal box instructions, which show the new quadrant. So now I know the problems that were caused by the offset design, and which motivated the new design which has the quadrant in line with the clutch pedal.

I should clarify that at the time I got my kit in mid-2012, they were using the beefier forged Wilwood pedals, so that's good. Also good is the fact that I have not put the front aluminum panel in place yet on the DS footbox, so the area is wide open for mods if that's what I end up doing.

My options are to use the existing offset quadrant that came with my kit (not too keen on that option), use the newer design, or go with a hydraulic clutch option. I am NOT intending to introduce the well-worn "would you choose hydraulic or cable and why" discussion, I know both can work and work well. My plans were to use the cable because that's what came with my kit, and I still intend to do that if the mods are reasonable.

I ordered the parts to do the conversion to the in-line quadrant from Mike, and they're on the way. So obviously he feels the conversion can be done. At the same time, I got my answer back from FFR that "The new quadrant system will not work for your kit, as the firewall is different for the new design. The system you have with the updated actuator is what would need to be used, other than a aftermarket hydro clutch system", which is not a surprising answer, and technically true, I would guess.

I've got questions back in to see if Dan can tell me more specifically how the "firewall is different"; welding I don't do, but drilling a new hole and patching an old I certainly could. And, I'm not sure what "updated actuator" he's referring to, so I'll need to scrutinize the new installation manual and compare to that in my complete kit manual.

So, my plan now is to take a look at the parts Mike sends me, have a chat with him if I have questions, and proceed with the new quadrant / cable approach if it appears to make sense.

In the meantime, I know there are builders out there with experience, and with recommendations and insight into what I'm facing. Any thoughts and input appreciated.

michael everson
03-27-2018, 05:35 AM
I have converted several of these. FFR is right (sort of). The front plate is different. Its pretty easy to relocate the hole for the firewall adjuster and use there updated design. I would not use the offset quadrant. The pedal breakage was addressed with the forged pedal but it just moved the problem to the next weakest point. People were finding the pressure on the pivot point was forcing the snap ring off and eventually it will slide out. Fix it now or fix it later. If price is not a problem, go hydraulic. Its what the pedal box was designed for. Otherwise with careful measuring you can use the quadrant the straddles the pedal.
Mike

John Ibele
03-27-2018, 04:36 PM
Thanks, Mike, sounds like I wasn't far off but its good to have the confirmation. I will look at the parts I get from Forte's and see what appears to be required to put the hole for the firewall adjuster in the new location.

I would be interested in detail on how you've moved the hole over. If it overlaps with the old hole, I'm assuming that I would either need to weld a plate over (I don't weld, at least yet) or bolt a plate over to put the hole in the new spot (takes away any hope of a clean look on the DS front panel - maybe that's gone in either case). So, depends on your definition of 'pretty easy'. In terms of proper location of the new hole, you mention careful measurement. Let me know if that means getting measurements from someone with the new frame / layout, or if that simply means carefully locating the hole by mocking everything up, and ensuring that the cable doesn't chafe as it comes out of the quadrant on its way to the firewall adjuster.

With that information, I'll decide whether to forge ahead, or do some parts swapping with Mike (return the dual reservoir I ordered along with the new quadrant, and trade for a triple reservoir and hydraulic clutch kit). Money's not a huge deal, and the hassle factor may push me in that direction.

Thanks again.

John Ibele
03-31-2018, 12:56 PM
Okay, making the mods to put the newer clutch quadrant on my older (offset quadrant) kit doesn't look so bad.

My plan so far:


Make the mods shown in the photo below
Mock up the pedal box and mount in the frame
Line up the location for the firewall adjuster side/side and up/down so that the cable won't bind
Patch the old hole


Answers to a few questions would help...


Is my comment #1 in the photo correct? If so, I shouldn't need the stop bracket at all, just a tapped hole for the adjuster screw and a jam nut, right?
My older kit came with two .75" master cylinders; and it seems I should get a .625" for the rear, to get a step ahead with brake bias. I found this at Summit (Wilwood Part 260-6087) (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/wil-260-6087?seid=srese1&cm_mmc=pla-google-_-shopping-_-srese1-_-wilwood-disc-brakes&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIodzl6oqX2gIVyLjACh3YbQBoEAQYAiAB EgLbHfD_BwE) which looks a bit different in terms of the bellows, and they also call it a 'clutch master cylinder', which is throwing me off a bit. Can someone confirm the right part number for me?
And, #3, the question I always ask myself ... anything I'm missing?



https://farm1.staticflickr.com/863/41139935141_5024837fc0_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/25FoVqz)

...and, can't resist one off topic item - happy spring from MN, this was the view of the shed this morning.
Still, the heat's always 60F at the turn of a dial inside, which is mighty inviting when the snow is blowing and the temp is dropping.


https://farm1.staticflickr.com/797/27266771498_627f56dcfd_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/HxtkcY)

phileas_fogg
03-31-2018, 01:14 PM
You've got the right part number for the rear brake master cylinder, Wilwood 260-6087. Wilwood's site (http://www.wilwood.com/MasterCylinders/MasterCylinderProd.aspx?itemno=260-6087) shows the bellows.

Incidentally, the front brake master cylinder part number is Wilwood 260-6089.

Cheers,


John

John Ibele
03-31-2018, 02:51 PM
Thanks John. On order, since I’ll need this regardless.