Flimsy vs. Solid Doors...

[cv2065]

Hey all. I've sat in a few FF Cobras, and one that i sat in yesterday, you could have sworn the doors were from a factory car...very solid, closed well, felt almost 'heavy'. Then, sat in another Cobra today, where it was just the opposite...flimsy, didn't close well, felt almost like a door on a plastic Mattel car that you get for your kid that has doors on it.

So, what's the difference do you think between these 2 builds? Are there some things that are absolutely necessary to do when building to ensure a solid door?

[RickP]

Some guys fill the doors with density foam. Gives it a solid feel over a hollow door.

[DadofThree]

There are some that put foam in their doors. MUST be Very Careful with this, because the foam can apply too much pressure to the door skin and cause deformation.

[Crawleyscobra]

I filled my doors with Great stuff low expanding foam. I drilled a bunch of holes on the inside of the door and injected it into the door. Gives it a more solid sound and feel.

[Avalanche325]

Remember that this is a 2150lb Cobra, not a 4000lb BMW M4 porker. Originals doors are on the flimsy side. More than an FFR door with a steel frame inside. At least on 289s. I have never had a chance to slam the door on a 427.

The concept of the Cobra is light-weight and high power, resulting in a very good power to weight ratio. Everything that adds weight, brings that number that makes a Cobra a Cobra down. That affects every aspect of the driving experience, acceleration, braking, and handling. A pound here, and a pound there all adds up. Pick your add-ons wisely. If you think the doors should feel like the ones in your daily driver, then a couple lbs of foam might do the trick and make the car the way you would like it. I'd rather mine feel like the doors on a Cobra.....and not slow me down on the autocross course. And don't roll your eyes! (LOL).....I can feel the difference when I hit the track with 1/4 tank vs 1/2 tank of gas. Which is about 24 - 25lbs.

I have a few weight adders myself. Carpet in the trunk, heater, heated seats.

[cv2065]

Just noticed from some pics that I took that the more solid sounding doors had the inner door panels where the other did not. Not sure how much difference this would make, but I'm sure it would add some structural rigidity and weight.

[edwardb]

I wouldn't necessarily conclude the "better" doors were foam filled. Door cards make a difference. Some don't put cushion material around the door openings. That makes a big difference. Just how well they're fitted and the hinges/catches adjusted makes a difference. It's all about the details.

[j.miller]

I would avoid injecting foam in the doors. I have delt with 5 or 6 sets where the owners had done the foam thing. Even the low expansion can distort the face of the door. Have had 2 sets that we canned and had to get new doors. The trick to good sounding doors is having the hinges very snug and the latches adjusted properly. There are a bunch doors out there that are only closing on the safety catch and more that the striker is not aligned properly. Striker aligns on 3 plains and when they are not, the doors can be very ....clunky....one of these days I'll make a video of all the changes we do to the latch and striker and how to set them proper...da Bat......we'll shoot! Just realized I said just about the same thing Paul did.....ONLY I USED MORE WORDS ! HA!:D

[Jeff Kleiner]

...The trick to good sounding doors is having the hinges very snug and the latches adjusted properly...

Ditto.

And I used fewer words than either of ya'---so there :p

Jeff

[cv2065]

Thanks for the feedback on that guys. Probably won't go the foam route and just see how things go.

[j.miller]

Ditto Kleiner, really, "DITTO"......Like the time you were on the potters wheel with that warm clay oozing between your fingers....WHAT ! sorry, that wasn't supposed to be out loud.....how embarrassing




Ditto.

And I used fewer words than either of ya'---so there :p

Jeff

[CraigS]

Like EdwardB says, I was very surprised how much my door trim panels made the door sound better when closed.

[Big Blocker]

Gotta agree with Miller, Jeff and EdwardB (and anybody else that stated this fact), proper adjusted hinges and especially the latch strike bolt.

No foam in mine, just a good solid sound like a door should sound (well, any non-Chrysler product). <--- just my 2¢

Doc

[roadscholar]

My doors were installed and adjusted by Da Bat, they close with a solid "clunk". They have no insulation. I've had more than a few people open them, then close them just to hear the "clunk". They are amazed that it's a "kit car".

John

[cv2065]

Good to know that alignment is key with no special extras to the build, Looks like I may have to find a Da Bat equivalent in Florida when I get to that point! ��

[BEAR-AvHistory]

My doors were installed and adjusted by Da Bat, they close with a solid "clunk". They have no insulation. I've had more than a few people open them, then close them just to hear the "clunk". They are amazed that it's a "kit car".

John

Have to agree with this. Its all about the care & skill in mounting them properly. One thing I farmed out with the painting was to have Whitby mount the body onto the chassis. Made for a very easy build.

I trucked the body to Whitby's about 4 months after I got the kit. This allowed me to continue to build the chassis to go-cart status while the body was being prepped. Trailered the go-cart down when I was done & picked up the finished car a month later.

Total elapsed time 13 months delivery to license plates.

[cv2065]

Have to agree with this. Its all about the care & skill in mounting them properly. One thing I farmed out with the painting was to have Whitby mount the body onto the chassis. Made for a very easy build.

I trucked the body to Whitby's about 4 months after I got the kit. This allowed me to continue to build the chassis to go-cart status while the body was being prepped. Trailered the go-cart down when I was done & picked up the finished car a month later.

Total elapsed time 13 months delivery to license plates.

I hope to move at that speed! Let me ask you this. Do the doors need any type of body work before being fitted or is it just a matter of getting them aligned correctly when installing? I had planned to maybe try my hand at bodywork, but not sure at this point.

[BEAR-AvHistory]

I hope to move at that speed! Let me ask you this. Do the doors need any type of body work before being fitted or is it just a matter of getting them aligned correctly when installing? I had planned to maybe try my hand at bodywork, but not sure at this point.

Doors are oversized & need body work to custom fit to the specific body.

[Jeff Kleiner]

...Do the doors need any type of body work before being fitted or is it just a matter of getting them aligned correctly when installing?....

OMG! Thanks for that...I needed a good laugh today! :D

Hey Miller! Want to hear a good one?

:cool:

Jeff

[cv2065]

OMG! Thanks for that...I needed a good laugh today! :D

Hey Miller! Want to hear a good one?

:cool:

Jeff

No problem. I'll be here all week...;)

[CraigS]

I hope to move at that speed! Let me ask you this. Do the doors need any type of body work before being fitted or is it just a matter of getting them aligned correctly when installing? I had planned to maybe try my hand at bodywork, but not sure at this point.
This is an area where it depends on who will paint your car and how much you expect him to do. Also important how perfect you want to make your car. The doors, hood and trunk need massaging to fit nicely. If you have a painter in mind, but he doesn't do FFRs, you can do a lot of this yourself. And probably should. Do you want your doors to fit the opening, and open and close properly? Not too hard, just takes time, and you can do it. Now, if you want to be able to hold a yard stick against the door and the front fender, to check if those parts are in one perfect line from the top to the bottom, this is what takes some experience, and is why Jeff was laughing. There are several good body work threads which will give you ideas of what all is involved. This is kind of like the old saying, speed costs money so how fast can you afford to go. FFR body work perfection costs money so how perfect do you want it.

[cv2065]

This is an area where it depends on who will paint your car and how much you expect him to do. Also important how perfect you want to make your car. The doors, hood and trunk need massaging to fit nicely. If you have a painter in mind, but he doesn't do FFRs, you can do a lot of this yourself. And probably should. Do you want your doors to fit the opening, and open and close properly? Not too hard, just takes time, and you can do it. Now, if you want to be able to hold a yard stick against the door and the front fender, to check if those parts are in one perfect line from the top to the bottom, this is what takes some experience, and is why Jeff was laughing. There are several good body work threads which will give you ideas of what all is involved. This is kind of like the old saying, speed costs money so how fast can you afford to go. FFR body work perfection costs money so how perfect do you want it.

Can't deal with doors that are not flush to the body. I'll check out Jeff's body work thread. In the meantime, I'll look to see if there are any painters who have done FFR bodies before in my area. Are their any lists on the forum? I'd like to be able to do the bulk of the bodywork myself, but I know that some painters will not warranty the paint job if they don't do the blocking and sanding themselves. I get that and will need to check around before making a decision. Thanks.

[PeteH]

I have noticed most doors are not true, as in flat. There are slight dips that need filling and blocking. Ditto for the front and rear cowl panels, and the nose at the seam
. I just spent three months on the fill and block part, and am finally ready to paint, tomorrow!
You can get a sense of non-trueness by dragging a board sander with 180 grit across the gel coat.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Doors are the make or break of the job and the first thing I look at on a finished roadster. Here's one showing how they "fit" (using that term loosely) when brought to me:

http://www.ffcars.com/photopost/data/500/medium/100_4823.jpg

And the same car when I finished:

http://www.ffcars.com/photopost/data/500/medium/100_5139.jpg

http://www.ffcars.com/photopost/data/500/medium/100_5141.jpg

They're all like this (actually the driver's side is worse) and there is lots of work in between hence my earlier reply ;)

Orlando huh? I have one being sent up to me from Miami in a few months...

Jeff

[cv2065]

Doors are the make or break of the job and the first thing I look at on a finished roadster. Here's one showing how they "fit" (using that term loosely) when brought to me:

http://www.ffcars.com/photopost/data/500/medium/100_4823.jpg

And the same car when I finished:

http://www.ffcars.com/photopost/data/500/medium/100_5139.jpg

http://www.ffcars.com/photopost/data/500/medium/100_5141.jpg

They're all like this (actually the driver's side is worse) and there is lots of work in between hence my earlier reply ;)

Orlando huh? I have one being sent up to me from Miami in a few months...

Jeff

Thanks for the pics and see what you mean! Just went through half of Scott's body and paint thread and gave me inspiration that a first timer like myself can get it done and done correctly with practice, time and patience. I used to live in Miami for a while...gave that place up. Way too congested. Orlando has been home for quite some time...I've got family up in the Rochester, IN area. Not sure if you are familiar with that town, but it had one stop light the last time I was there about two decades ago. I'm sure its grown...

[walt mckenna]

I am going to side with those that advocate foam as a way to achieve a solid sounding door with no rattles. I did not like the hollow sound of the door plus the Hinge and Latch Reinforcement Bar seemed to be the source of a rattle. I drilled a hole in the bottom of the door, mounted a very bright light on one side of the door and then injected foam until the Hinge and Latch Reinforcemnt Bar was encapsulated. The doors now close with a nice solid "thunk" and no rattles.

[Gumball]

Another first-timer who did his own bodywork. I followed Scott's bodywork thread, along with a couple others, and got tons of help from the knowledgeable guys here on the forum. I did fill my doors, but used a high-line version of low expansion foam for use around windows and doors - made by Hilti. I also used some 1/8" rubber sheet to fill the opening near the door latch, so that the doors have a real finished look to them. The foam filling, combined with the door panels, weatherstripping, and lots of attention to hinge and latch adjustment resulted in very solid, production-car sounding doors.

Here's a link to my bodywork thread. Door fitting starts at post 39 with the pre-fit. Post 61 shows the multiple hoies I used for the foam - just a little foam through each hole. Posts 85 - 97 show the rest of the door fitting process, with #96 giving a real good idea of how I did the door-to-body transitions.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?7645-Chris-Bodywork-Thread-Mk3-1&highlight=chris%27+bodywork

Here's a pic of the car that shows a good reflection on the doors - no issue with bulging on these.

http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab15/CCRsAC/Side%20Reflection_zps9fkzcn79.jpg (http://s845.photobucket.com/user/CCRsAC/media/Side%20Reflection_zps9fkzcn79.jpg.html)

[cv2065]

Another first-timer who did his own bodywork. I followed Scott's bodywork thread, along with a couple others, and got tons of help from the knowledgeable guys here on the forum. I did fill my doors, but used a high-line version of low expansion foam for use around windows and doors - made by Hilti. I also used some 1/8" rubber sheet to fill the opening near the door latch, so that the doors have a real finished look to them. The foam filling, combined with the door panels, weatherstripping, and lots of attention to hinge and latch adjustment resulted in very solid, production-car sounding doors.

Here's a link to my bodywork thread. Door fitting starts at post 39 with the pre-fit. Post 61 shows the multiple hoies I used for the foam - just a little foam through each hole. Posts 85 - 97 show the rest of the door fitting process, with #96 giving a real good idea of how I did the door-to-body transitions.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?7645-Chris-Bodywork-Thread-Mk3-1&highlight=chris%27+bodywork

Here's a pic of the car that shows a good reflection on the doors - no issue with bulging on these.

http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab15/CCRsAC/Side%20Reflection_zps9fkzcn79.jpg (http://s845.photobucket.com/user/CCRsAC/media/Side%20Reflection_zps9fkzcn79.jpg.html)

Excellent! Thanks Chris!