Change my mind on rattle can vs powder coat for aluminum panels

[rrrose]

So lesson learned on my end. I thought I was saving some $$ and was being clever using an engine block ceramic based paint for my aluminum panels. I was RO sanding them with 120 grit to clean and provide a surface with additional mechanical bond and I was cleaning them with lacquer thinner and naphtha to remove any residue after the sanding. I used the prescribed primer and made sure I had proper environmental (temp and humidity) before applying paint. The end result was panels that looked good but when I riveted them on the paint would peel away around the rivets and if the panels touched each other (sometimes I think if they just got too close) they would scratch up the paint right down to the bare aluminum.

So I have pulled off the panels I had attached and sent everything off for powder coating.

My only issue now of course is the 1-2 week estimate I was given in early Feb for getting the job done has tuned into 5-6 weeks. The trials and tribulations of trying to support a local business that have gone through personnel problems just as I turned over my panels.

Anyway, for those that are still debating this I am not sure what I was doing wrong but the rattle can paint approach was not working for me. It was taking hours to prep the panels for paint and my results just were not cutting it.

Ron

[NAZ]

Next time try an acid etch made to etch aluminum (Eastwood has one) but be very very careful as these contain hydrofluoric acid which is the most dangerous acid you're likely to encounter. Use proper PPE with this stuff. Then coat with a good quality zinc chromate primer. Once primed you can use your favorite rattle can paint but I suggest you look at one of the Eastwood two-part rattle can paints for a durable top coat.

[UnhipPopano]

Out of curiosity, what is the warranty that the powder coater is giving you? Just like the paint failed, so can the powder coat. if you see the coating blister or separate a year from now, what will they do? I myself would have pulled any thing from someone who did not deliver as promised. My father had a saying that has stood the test of time. First Loss is the best Loss. If the "Local Business" is using your panels to train the new guy, how well do you think it will end up?

[rrrose]

Out of curiosity, what is the warranty that the powder coater is giving you? Just like the paint failed, so can the powder coat. if you see the coating blister or separate a year from now, what will they do? I myself would have pulled any thing from someone who did not deliver as promised. My father had a saying that has stood the test of time. First Loss is the best Loss. If the "Local Business" is using your panels to train the new guy, how well do you think it will end up?

That is a good question on the warranty I don't know. In talking with the owner I didn't get the impression my job would be training new folks. They were busy adjusting to what they had to do and the owner was going to be doing the work himself with the remaining employees. Guess the process and reviews had me comfortable enough that I didn't specifically ask. The reality for me is if a year from now some of the panels blister or the paint separates I am not taking the car apart to have them redo the panels. I will deal with it and move on. As an organic coating in a harsh environment I don't expect it to last for ever although if it fails in a year I would be disappointed.

Call it too much trust in my fellow man. I tend to probably work with people long after I should to come to a mutual better result. This has worked well for me in the past. There has been one unscrupulous business person I am have been dealing with for 18 months now that installed an engine in my jeep wrangler. Its been the only bad experience I have had that I can remember. I do claim CRS has begun for me though :)

[Driver_WT]

I had all aluminum panels powder coated. Looks great, no issues and cost about $400 for all panels.

[GoDadGo]

I rattle canned mine; however, I would have preferred to have the panels powder coated.

The fellow that does this kind of work in my area wanted over $1,500.00 to do the work.

While the rattle can job is okay, it is isn't as durable as having it powder coated.

https://youtu.be/_wnHDNgnNqs

[rrrose]

I rattle canned mine; however, I would have preferred to have the panels powder coated.

The fellow that does this kind of work in my area wanted over $1,500.00 to do the work.

While the rattle can job is okay, it is isn't as durable as having it powder coated.

https://youtu.be/_wnHDNgnNqs

Mine will come in at $730. That isn't every panel but it is most including trunk. The rear passenger compartment ones (behind the seats)I am not getting powder coated and is really all I didn't send. I am coating the exterior of those with lizard skin and the inside is getting a carbon fiber/Kevlar covering. Same with trans tunnel top and dash.

They ordered extra powder for me at that price so I can do small parts myself. I can handle small with my little setup at home.

It wasn't $730 I wanted to spend but in the end I expect it will be much better and thus I will be happier. Sometimes I am expensive to make happy as my wife will most readily agree.

[Chris @ Forma]

We powder coat all of our aluminum before installation and haven't had any adhesion issues. Make sure that your powder guy mechanically preps the panels and doesn't just wash them (this is why the FFR chassis have such adhesion issues). We prep the panels ourselves with 180 grit. Additionally, make sure your painter is using a good quality powder, we prefer prismatic silver artery. This is a two tone silver and black that is excellent to hide minor dings and chips that invariably happen when you drive very much. As for cost, on average we spend $350 to have all of our panels done if we do the prep and $450 if we have our powder coating house do the prep. Typical turn around time for us is 1 week. If you are waiting more than two, you need a new supplier.

Hope this is helpful.

Chris

[Jeff Kleiner]

The fellow that does this kind of work in my area wanted over $1,500.00 to do the work.



No, at that price he DIDN'T want to do the work!

Jeff

[rrrose]

Next time try an acid etch made to etch aluminum (Eastwood has one) but be very very careful as these contain hydrofluoric acid which is the most dangerous acid you're likely to encounter. Use proper PPE with this stuff. Then coat with a good quality zinc chromate primer. Once primed you can use your favorite rattle can paint but I suggest you look at one of the Eastwood two-part rattle can paints for a durable top coat.

I am hoping there will be a next time :) With your additional insight added to my experience, if there is time I suspect I will be drilling and then taking the panels directly to powder coat.

[rrrose]

We powder coat all of our aluminum before installation and haven't had any adhesion issues. Make sure that your powder guy mechanically preps the panels and doesn't just wash them (this is why the FFR chassis have such adhesion issues). We prep the panels ourselves with 180 grit. Additionally, make sure your painter is using a good quality powder, we prefer prismatic silver artery. This is a two tone silver and black that is excellent to hide minor dings and chips that invariably happen when you drive very much. As for cost, on average we spend $350 to have all of our panels done if we do the prep and $450 if we have our powder coating house do the prep. Typical turn around time for us is 1 week. If you are waiting more than two, you need a new supplier.

Hope this is helpful.

Chris

Part of the prep is that all the panels are cleaned through a sand blasting step as well as getting washed. I was thinking this would be a good cleaning process.
I selected the powder, it is Prismatic - Silver Oar. Glad I picked a good powder :)

[initiator]

Sorry to hear the first approach didn't work. My rattle can process uses Rustoleum Hammered engine paint for panels facing heat, and regular for everything else. I've noticed a few small nicks where the hand riveter bounced, but extra care prevents those. Never lost anything down to the Aluminum, that's weird. I used the Pre-Kote treatment process others have tried with good success. The engine paint, in particular, is really well adhered.

[Fixit]

Paint adhesion is all about prep.... PERIOD. Doesn't matter what topcoat is going on, if the substrate isn't ready nothing will stick.

I fab adapter brackets out of aluminum all the time for outdoor CCTV camera mounts... One mfg's mount (to the building) for another's camera arm assy. Once the adapter plate is made, it hits the blast cabinet to remove all the crud/oxidation & provide "tooth", then a dunk/wipe in acetone to remove the oils/grease/contaminants, then shot with a light "coverage coat" of self-etching primer.

After this I usually topcoat with color (3+ coats) of whatever's needed to match the color required - using a paint from the same mfg.

These things are outdoors 24/7/365 and have never had paint failure down to the raw aluminum. The topcoat/color may chip/fade, but never through the acid-etch primer coat.

Powder Coating isn't a magic bullet. It's plastic dust that's melted onto something... you can powder coat GLASS. - It'll flow out and look beautiful, until you nick it. then the surface is compromised and it'll fall off in a sheet.

You have to have a chemical & mechanical bond from the substrate to the paint.

[CraigS]

For others reading this I have had very good luck w/ Rustoleum self etching primer and hammered paint.
https://www.rustoleum.com/product-catalog/consumer-brands/auto/primers/self-etching-primer/
https://www.rustoleum.com/product-catalog/consumer-brands/stops-rust/hammered-spray
I keep a can of primer, silver, and black on hand. The paint is the quickest drying I have ever used which is nice. How thick you spray it determines how 'hammered' it looks. The black has been on my valve covers for two years and is still perfect.

[Chris @ Forma]

Don't get me wrong. We also use rattle can. Primarily on small parts/brackets, etc. As John stated, good paint is all about the part prep no matter what you are painting. After sanding, our parts are wiped down with acetone to remove and oil from handling.

Chris