Fuel Line questions

[rrrose]

Hi all,

I have been running fuel lines and was provided rubber flex line (10mm- 3/8) about 15 feet or so. I laid it all out and was able to make that length work barely for sending line and return but it was tight and without the engine I am guessing at where to terminate the ends so that I can eventually connect to fuel injection. I will need to get some more to make final connections regardless.

I got some braided stainless steel to cover the rubber tubing and provide some additional protection and while that looked better I just didn't like the bulky look. Yea I know no one is really going to be checking out the underside of the car for that. While practical and much simpler than bending hard line I am going to run hard line. My plan is I will run the hard lines up into the engine bay on passenger side and terminate angling back towards the firewall from the side of the passenger footbox just as described in the assembly manual.

To go with the stainless steel brake lines I ran I am going to run 3/8 stainless fuel hard lines. Since I was going to be running 3/8 flex return, at this point I will plan on doing the same with hardline. I need to read the Fitech manual to confirm this though. The in tank fuel pump is all setup for AN6 fittings as is the fuel filter and per the Fitech manual those are the fittings that will be on the engine. I was provided all the push on fittings for connects using flex lines.

What I cannot figure out is what is the connection fitting I need to put on the hard lines before I flare the ends. I have the 37 degree flaring tools. Do I flare these hard lines? Or by looking at all the different connectors is it more of a compression fitting on the 3/8 tube with a male or female AN6 connection?

Also do I need or what is the value of a fuel line pressure regulator?

Discovering what I didn't know I didn't know before I started trying to be clever incorporating some of the modifications I have read about.


Ron

[CraigS]

I may be a bit biased since I won't use SS even for 3/16 brake lines, but, you are really making a lot of work for yourself using 3/8 SS. My favorite is nicopp line since it is easy to bend and to flair. Good luck.
https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/nicopp-nicopp-nickel-copper-brake-fuel-transmission-line-tubing-coil-3-8-x-25-cnc-625/22190270-P?searchTerm=nicopp+line

[rrrose]

I may be a bit biased since I won't use SS even for 3/16 brake lines, but, you are really making a lot of work for yourself using 3/8 SS. My favorite is nicopp line since it is easy to bend and to flair. Good luck.
https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/nicopp-nicopp-nickel-copper-brake-fuel-transmission-line-tubing-coil-3-8-x-25-cnc-625/22190270-P?searchTerm=nicopp+line

I hear you on that and while I didn't find using the SS for the brake lines that hard for bending, if I didn't have the just about idiot proof eastwood flaring tool I doubt I would have been able to go the stainless route. At build school they had some of the nicopp line to show how easy it was to work with.
My reason for going stainless to begin with is growing up in southern Ontario Canada and living with the impact of salt and sand on roads pushes me to use materials that don't rust so much and can stand the sand blasting. This is not a winter car I know but here in Colorado they use crap on the roads that is almost as bad and we get enough good weather in between the snow where the car will be on the road. Since I have the choice I decided to take on the stainless hard lines. I have never run break lines or fuel lines before so I guess now I have learned to do it with a not so easy material :)

[Papa]

Ron,

The EFI will need a pressure regulator to function properly. My regulator for the FAST EFI is positioned on the return leg. I used braded line for my entire fuel system and it went really quick to run the lines for the supply and return.

Here is what I bought for the braided line: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fra-842006

Dave

[Papa]

I may be a bit biased since I won't use SS even for 3/16 brake lines, but, you are really making a lot of work for yourself using 3/8 SS. My favorite is nicopp line since it is easy to bend and to flair. Good luck.
https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/nicopp-nicopp-nickel-copper-brake-fuel-transmission-line-tubing-coil-3-8-x-25-cnc-625/22190270-P?searchTerm=nicopp+line

Much less expensive here: https://www.amazon.com/Roll-Copper-Nickel-Fuel-Transmission/dp/B015YGREXU/ref=sr_1_3_sspa?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1521409851&sr=1-3-spons&keywords=3%2F8+nickel+copper+tubing&psc=1

[edwardb]

Don't let 'em talk you out of the SS lines if you want to use them. ;) Yes it's more work and takes the right tools and process. But the final result is nice, even if probably overkill. For the 3/8 SS fuel lines, which I've installed on three builds, don't bother with trying to flare it. Once you have the tube nut and flare, it still takes one or two fittings to get to 06AN. Instead use these: https://www.breezeautomotive.com/details.php?prod_id=1073. Compression fitting onto the 3/8 SS line and instant 06AN connection. These are super high quality fittings. Actually Ham-Let Stainless Steel 316 Let-Lok parts rated at many times the PSI they'll ever see in our applications. I've seen them available elsewhere (Amazon and eBay sometimes) but typically they're not easy to find direct to consumer and Mark just happens to have them. Highly recommended. I've used them on all my builds.

I'm not quite following your other comments about rubber fuel line, SS braid over, etc.

[Boydster]

FiTech has an internal fuel pressure regulator. You do not need an external regulator at all.

I used 3/8 Nicopp pressure and return, with flex lines at the rear so I can drop the tank and flex lines from the pass footbox to the engine for vibration isolation.

I used AN Plumbing (https://www.anplumbing.com/) as a ref for anything I needed. Its all in there, just gotta find it.

[CDXXVII]

Stainless Fuel Lines - AN compression fittings as stated in an earlier thread.

I used stainless for my brake lines, fuel lines and even the lines for the wiper boxes. With the right tools stainless is fine to work with.

I do not have pictures of my fuel tank connection. Basically everything is AN. The fuel pump comes with AN fitting from highflowfuel.com

82790

82791

82792

82794

82793

[rrrose]

Don't let 'em talk you out of the SS lines if you want to use them. ;) Yes it's more work and takes the right tools and process. But the final result is nice, even if probably overkill. For the 3/8 SS fuel lines, which I've installed on three builds, don't bother with trying to flare it. Once you have the tube nut and flare, it still takes one or two fittings to get to 06AN. Instead use these: https://www.breezeautomotive.com/details.php?prod_id=1073. Compression fitting onto the 3/8 SS line and instant 06AN connection. These are super high quality fittings. Actually Ham-Let Stainless Steel 316 Let-Lok parts rated at many times the PSI they'll ever see in our applications. I've seen them available elsewhere (Amazon and eBay sometimes) but typically they're not easy to find direct to consumer and Mark just happens to have them. Highly recommended. I've used them on all my builds.

I'm not quite following your other comments about rubber fuel line, SS braid over, etc.

Thanks edwardb, that is exactly the connection I was unable to figure out.
I am set on using the SS. It may be extra work but since I don't know another way I am fine with the work it is. The look is exactly what I like and the durability is what I want. I agree it is a bit overkill for this type of car but then again so are so many other things we each do :)

Here is a couple of pictures of the rubber flex line and the SS braided sleeve I am talking about. The sleeve is held in place by the clamps at the connection. The less expensive way to get the braided SS line look without getting custom lines made or finding the just right length stock line.
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[rrrose]

Stainless Fuel Lines - AN compression fittings as stated in an earlier thread.

I used stainless for my brake lines, fuel lines and even the lines for the wiper boxes. With the right tools stainless is fine to work with.

I do not have pictures of my fuel tank connection. Basically everything is AN. The fuel pump comes with AN fitting from highflowfuel.com

82790

82791

82792

82794

82793


That is wonderful workmanship. The look is great and the durability can't be beat. My fuel pump is similar. It is from Gordon Levy I have seen many posts where forum members get the same pump from Gordon. Seems a good pump and has the AN fittings. Its all part of the whole engine package Gordon is putting together for me. My only issue has been I have tried at least a few dozen times (time about 3 hours) to get the pump into the tank and not knock the fiber filter off. I even purchased a new filter in case the original had somehow been damaged. No luck. Finally just put in the fuel pump without the mesh filter attached on the bottom.

So I have to ask where does one get the fasteners you used to attach the lines to the frame? Those are slick.
Ron

[rrrose]

FiTech has an internal fuel pressure regulator. You do not need an external regulator at all.

I used 3/8 Nicopp pressure and return, with flex lines at the rear so I can drop the tank and flex lines from the pass footbox to the engine for vibration isolation.

I used AN Plumbing (https://www.anplumbing.com/) as a ref for anything I needed. Its all in there, just gotta find it.


Good to know on the FiTech thanks. I read through their instructions a few times and it refers to a pressure regulator but they mostly talk about using their fuel command center in conjunction with the Go EFI which has its own pressure regulator built into it. So it wasn't clear to me.
Thanks for the link now that I know I need to compression coupler per edwardb and CDXXVII I can shop around a bit. Although just calling Mark at Breeze is such a smooth and easy way to go.

[Papa]

That is wonderful workmanship. The look is great and the durability can't be beat. My fuel pump is similar. It is from Gordon Levy I have seen many posts where forum members get the same pump from Gordon. Seems a good pump and has the AN fittings. Its all part of the whole engine package Gordon is putting together for me. My only issue has been I have tried at least a few dozen times (time about 3 hours) to get the pump into the tank and not knock the fiber filter off. I even purchased a new filter in case the original had somehow been damaged. No luck. Finally just put in the fuel pump without the mesh filter attached on the bottom.

So I have to ask where does one get the fasteners you used to attach the lines to the frame? Those are slick.
Ron

Ron,

It took me several tries to get the screen on the pump. Once it goes on correctly, it won't come off while inserting the assembly into the tank. It took a bit of pressure to seat the screen correctly.

The clamps can be found here: http://www.lsbilletworks.com/

Dave

[rrrose]

Ron,

The EFI will need a pressure regulator to function properly. My regulator for the FAST EFI is positioned on the return leg. I used braded line for my entire fuel system and it went really quick to run the lines for the supply and return.

Here is what I bought for the braided line: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fra-842006

Dave

Hey Dave
That hose is similar to what Gordon sent me less the nylon braided sleeve. It is high quality stuff and pricy. I purchased some SS braided sleeve for the protection and bling(picture in my response to edwardb) . I agree it was very straight forward to run the lines. Functional and practical yes, I guess it just wasn't pretty to my eye.

Ron

[Papa]

Hey Dave
That hose is similar to what Gordon sent me less the nylon braided sleeve. It is high quality stuff and pricy. I purchased some SS braided sleeve for the protection and bling(picture in my response to edwardb) . I agree it was very straight forward to run the lines. Functional and practical yes, I guess it just wasn't pretty to my eye.

Ron

Ron,

I was just too intimidated to try to run solid lines and chickened out and went with the flexible hose. I do think that the stainless lines look fantastic and will outlast any other material you can make them out of. Let me know if you ever need a hand with anything.

Dave

[CDXXVII]

I made all my own line clamps before I found there was already a vendor. The radiused 4” were the toughest to make.

These guys do a great job at a reasonable cost.

www.lsbilletworks.com/

[rrrose]

I made all my own line clamps before I found there was already a vendor. The radiused 4” were the toughest to make.

These guys do a great job at a reasonable cost.

www.lsbilletworks.com/

Plus on the workmanship making your own. Thanks for the link I spent some time between frame and computer last night figuring out how many of those pretties I would need.

Ron

[uggb123]

Ron,

The EFI will need a pressure regulator to function properly. My regulator for the FAST EFI is positioned on the return leg. I used braded line for my entire fuel system and it went really quick to run the lines for the supply and return.

Here is what I bought for the braided line: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fra-842006

Dave

I just came across his post and wish I had seen it earlier. My build is nearing bodywork stages and I have been driving in gel coat for about 200 miles. I don’t want to sway those that want to use flex fuel lines instead of the hard lines but here is my experience using the Fragola lines (the ones Papa linked) on a recommendation from my engine builder.

Pros: very easy to run. They are flexible so you just add AN connection points and mounting clips to the frame. Literally takes less than 30 minutes to run the supply and return lines. I think they look good too with our without a steel sheathing.

Cons: Not cheap, will run you a few hundred once you add in AN fittings and fuel filters, etc. The biggest con for me is these hoses don’t keep in the fuel fumes so your garage, clothes, etc will stink pretty bad all the time. This is referenced in the product description on summit where they recommend PTFE coated hoses.

The smell is bad enough that it affects my decisions as to when I can use the car. So much that I will be replacing with hard lines as soon as I can even if it requires taking the body back off. Some may be reading this thinking a gas smell would be cool for a car like this and complaining about it is like those that say the car is too loud, fair but I am building a street car and won’t use it nearly as much if I am going to smell like I spent the day in the pits at the Charotte Motor Speedway every time I run out for an errand or go to work.

Very interested to know if others have had the same experience with the flex fuel hoses and how they might have addressed it.
Glenn

[Papa]

I just came across his post and wish I had seen it earlier. My build is nearing bodywork stages and I have been driving in gel coat for about 200 miles. I don’t want to sway those that want to use flex fuel lines instead of the hard lines but here is my experience using the Fragola lines (the ones Papa linked) on a recommendation from my engine builder.

Pros: very easy to run. They are flexible so you just add AN connection points and mounting clips to the frame. Literally takes less than 30 minutes to run the supply and return lines. I think they look good too with our without a steel sheathing.

Cons: Not cheap, will run you a few hundred once you add in AN fittings and fuel filters, etc. The biggest con for me is these hoses don’t keep in the fuel fumes so your garage, clothes, etc will stink pretty bad all the time. This is referenced in the product description on summit where they recommend PTFE coated hoses.

The smell is bad enough that it affects my decisions as to when I can use the car. So much that I will be replacing with hard lines as soon as I can even if it requires taking the body back off. Some may be reading this thinking a gas smell would be cool for a car like this and complaining about it is like those that say the car is too loud, fair but I am building a street car and won’t use it nearly as much if I am going to smell like I spent the day in the pits at the Charotte Motor Speedway every time I run out for an errand or go to work.

Very interested to know if others have had the same experience with the flex fuel hoses and how they might have addressed it.
Glenn

1-1/2 years on the car with no fuel smell, although that doesn't mean it won't come with more use. I've already made up my mind that if I do need to replace them at some point, I'll run hard lines. Much easier to do now that I can put the car in the air with my lift.

Dave