Coyote Marginal Costs

[mmklaxer]

I'm trying to determine the total incremental cost of going with a coyote over a SBF. I don't intend to turn this into a thread about modular vs old school, carb vs FI, etc - a lot of that is personal preference. I'm trying to determine the costs above and beyond the "standard engine/tranny packages" offered by many vendors. Things that come to mind are:

Coyote Install package from FFR
3/8" fuel lines?
Custom Tune?
etc?

Thanks!

[stack]

EFI is EFI so Coyote to SBF is the same. Fuel pump, filter, regulator, alternator, starter, feed and return lines ect. The coyote is around 6600 brand new from ford. With this you will need a special oil pan and pickup for about $550-600 from moroso, a ford racing control pack for $1450 or so and the pretty 5.0 engine cover if you want it. You can build your SBF as mild or wild as you want. You can spend more or less than the coyote if you want to. There is a ton of people going coyote because it is new and modern. It is very smooth and is massive in the engine bay.

I would recommend a custom tune anyway you went. With the coyote it is more of a necessity. The car will start and run pretty good with the control pack. However it was designed to use the mustang air box and you won't be using it in a FFR. While you are tuning it you can set it up for 91-93 octane and dial it in for more power and drivability.

Hope this helps.

stack

[michael everson]

If basing it solely on Horsepower, you would be hard pressed to beat the Coyote. Probably cost more to get 435 out of a small block.
Mike

[edwardb]

X2 to the posts already received. They're right on target. I'd recommend, if you haven't already, getting the Coyote installation instructions from Factory Five. They list all the parts needed right at the beginning. Granted, many of them are required no matter what engine you use (e.g. clutch, bell housing, trans, etc.) but also lists the unique parts required. It will start and run very well with the stock tune. But it runs even better with a custom tune. I'd recommend factoring that in. At the end of the day, it isn't just about the money though. I've had a couple SBF Roadsters (one mile, one not so mild) and now the Coyote Roadster. The SBF's were properly tuned and I thought ran very well. But really no comparison to how the Coyote starts (instant), runs with little/no exhaust smell, is silky smooth and can be as mild or wild as you want. The throttle response is smooth and instant at all times. The improved driving experience is something you have to experience to really understand. I'm obviously a big supporter.

[mmklaxer]

Thanks all. I absolutely see the values of the coyote, just wanted to understand any hidden costs that aren't explicitly called out in the instructions - trying to make sure that budget thing is accurate...

[Straversi]

Budget, FFR, accurate? Never did figure out how to get those words together but it’s an interesting concept.
Fair warning, this group will help you with anything except staying on budget. Spending other people’s money is a Forum specialty.
-Steve

[BEAR-AvHistory]

If you buy a FFR COYOTE 'package' from Forte, Summit etal the only incremental non-turnkey item is a tune. Figure $300/400 & up

[michael everson]

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4795/40041257624_9cc8171e1c_z.jpg


FFR now sells complete packages for $14, 000.00 for everything.
Mike

[mmklaxer]

If you buy a FFR COYOTE 'package' from Forte, Summit etal the only incremental non-turnkey item is a tune. Figure $300/400 & up

Thanks; that’s what I was looking for. Those packages look pretty comprehensive, just didn’t know if there was anything else

[wareaglescott]

Everyone covered it pretty good. Lund racing offers a great way too get the tune done remotely. Consists of them sending you a base tune and then you sending some data logs of your car post tune back and forth a few times while they tweek the tune out. You can purchases the tune alone if you already own a tuner you can load it on or the tune and the tuning device together from them.

Here is the website to give you a cost idea. https://lundracing.com/mustang
Myself and at least 2 other recent Coyote builders are very pleased with them. I will use them again if the need arises. I ran my car about 1000 miles before going with the tune. As EdwardB said it runs great. Post tune it is much better but that starts a whole other argument of to tune or not to tune.

[Clover]

I was going to point out that FF does sell the Coyote package but I did not know if they would want that posted here. I don't think they can advertise that because of their deal with BP or something like that. I recently looked at what engine I want to go with and am pretty much decided on the Coyote. From what I was seeing, you could build a SBF for less if you rebuild an old engine. However, if you are buying everything new, they end up costing in the same ballpark. Actually, when I built the SBF with the parts I would have wanted to use, it would be a little more then a Coyote. One thing I will point out is that the Coyote engine is huge. Much larger then a SBF. Heck, the Coyote is sinificaly larger then an LS3 which is 6.2L. The duel overhead cams make for some large heads. I did not originally realize just how large the engine is, which is the big draw back of the Coyote in my opinion.

[mmklaxer]

Here is the website to give you a cost idea. https://lundracing.com/mustang
Myself and at least 2 other recent Coyote builders are very pleased with them. I will use them again if the need arises. I ran my car about 1000 miles before going with the tune. As EdwardB said it runs great. Post tune it is much better but that starts a whole other argument of to tune or not to tune.

That was very helpful, thanks. And while I'm at it, your build thread is an absolute confidence booster. From limited experience to what you turned out - awesome. Thanks for sharing your journey!

[sbhunter]

I purchased my coyote/tko through ffr. It is very complete. It does not include the mechanism to actuate the clutch (cable or hydraulic) or any power steering. They offer an excellent KRC power steering kit that is complete for $920 (16473). I had to purchase the clutch slave and throw out arm from Forte. I don’t have that price in front of me. You can purchase their kit unassambled and save $500. The ffr kit is shipped with a 255lph fuel pump which opened more questions and more purchases by me due to the return lines and fittings being to small for that size pump. In the end, I wish I would have purchased the motor/trans through Forte. His price is essentially the same and he will size everything accordingly and include more extras.

[wareaglescott]

That was very helpful, thanks. And while I'm at it, your build thread is an absolute confidence booster. From limited experience to what you turned out - awesome. Thanks for sharing your journey!

Thanks. Glad it was useful.

[Duke]

In a lot of build threads you'll see guys upgrade a lot of the small parts for functional or aesthetic reasons. Things like radiator hoses, fuel line fittings, overflow tank, etc. Add that to power steering and you can start to add up quickly. It all depends on how deep you want to go.

[Fixit]

My previous "hotrod" project was a '65 El Camino.
Had the original, stock 327 long-block, but an early Edelbrock "Performer" and 600 Vac Holley on it. Ran great after I spend about 40 hours playing with jets, accelerator pump cams, power valves, secondary springs, etc... all the Holley tuning stuff needed to get one to work right. Ultimately MPG best of 21, and very nice driveability - unless you wanted a hot-start.

I had a real snotty 383 stroker on the stand (complete from carb to pan, from a previous car) that just begged to go in. So it did. Same regime - retune/setup for the new chassis. MPG best of 13 MPG. Hey, not bad for a lumpy cam, 2500 to 6K powerband, and about 400HP.

Enter my Dads '96 Roadmaster - LT-1, 4L60e, EFI, and around 300HP bone stock. I won't go into details about what it took to swap THAT in, but I am a convert to ECU controlled, EFI engines. I've never engine or chassis dyno'd it, but a conservative estimate is I've gained about 50 HP with the exhaust & intake mods. Just a few months ago I had to move the car out of the garage - 10 BELOW ZERO, and hadn't been started in 6 weeks. Three cranks and vrrroom... idled at 1500 for a bit, and dropped to a rock-steady 900. Lets see you do that with a carbureted, 10:1 compression engine! MPG best to date is 26. Twist the key and go, and I can get parts at ANY autoparts store ANYWHERE.

I didn't even give a thought to a "traditional" engine setup for my kit. A Coyote out of the box... 435+ HP, warranty, and with a simple tune to match the setup you'll be at a conservative 450HP. It'll start at +100degs, minus 15degs, idle all day long in traffic, get parts anywhere, and (should) pull at least 20MPG.
Factory Five states in their disclaimers that you are building a race car - without millions of miles of testing, etc. With a crate-motor from Ford, you get the gigantic deep-pockets of $$$ engineering, testing, and resources.

That said, several buddies of mine have done EFI conversions on their "traditional" engines, using the aftermarket setups. After the typical teething pains of getting the sub-systems set up, and actually getting it running - then putting some miles on it so it can "learn" - they've got nothing but good things to say. Every time they drive the car gets better.

My goal is late-model driveability & performance, wrapped in the coolest "old-school" package there is!