Coyote transmission

[Packer fan]

Hi,
Has anyone used any transmission with the coyote besides the tko600 ?

I like the gear ratios used in the tko600 but have heard that they don’t like shifting at 7000 rpms.
It’s not like I’m going to always shift there, but I don’t want to throw away the use of where the coyote thrives.

Thanks a head of time,

Jim

[Packer fan]

Has anyone used a t-56 magnum?

[FFinisher]

I used a 3550 from a Mustang, works fine. The guy hammers on the car and has never had an issue. He hammered it before we put the coyote in and it was 4.6 DOHC. I don't; know how much shifting over 7000 rps you will eb doing.

The Coyote can do it and sounds unbelievable up there, But that's really cranking.

[Svtfreak]

I had my 2015 coyote with a 2.9L whipple in mustang shifting at 7900... with auto but still. And was still climbing on power. My last one had the MT82. I typically shifted it at 7500 with no issues. I know some folks hate it, but I never had an issue. Shifted smooth for me from day 1. It now has 75k+ miles on it (friend bought it from me), 585 whp since 5k miles (2.3L vmp tvs blower on it) and still going. And I know Brian beats on it.

[johngeorge]

I haven't had any issues with a TKO600 shifting at 7200rpm, not sure what these issues are but I have heard them before and never experienced them in my racing.

[Clover]

I am also interested in this as I thought I read somewhere about the TKOs not liking to shift above 6500rpm but I don't know how credible that was. I do know that johngeorge has a lot of credibility, just look at what he has already accomplished with a Gen 3. I'm tempted to buy his car even though it is over my budget and I want to build my own. I have no experience with it myself but what I had read about the TKOs trouble shifting at high revs had me thinking of the T-56 Magnum, which I think was suggested for higher revving engines. I wish I could remember where I read that. I remember someone using a MT82 but there were a few hurdles they needed to overcome.

Mike Forte has been working with Tremic since back in 1993 and sells multiple different transmission options with a Coyote package, so he is probably a great source of info on this. He is going to be giving me a call later today and I was planning to ask about this along with a few other things. I will post again with whatever I learn from him but if the TKO600 has been working for johngeorge in his race car with a Coyote, it will probably do just fine for most. Plus, the TKO600 is lighter and cheaper then the T-56.

[Clover]

I spoke with Mike Forte who was able to confirm that the TKO600 will shift just fine at higher revs as long as is it properly set up. Apparently, the stories of problems at higher revs in the TKO were related to clutch disengagement issues. I guess if you don't get things set up and aligned right, you can end up dragging the clutch a little. Mike has run TKOs in race engines that would spin up to 8000 rpms without issue, so the Coyote should be fine in my mind. I have no experience with this and am not and expert, however, I think I have settled on a TKO600 for my car.

I also learned that the tail of the TKO transmission will need to be cut in order to fit. I think I am going to order from Mike Forte who said he can just trim that for me before shipping it out, however, that seems like an important thing to keep in mind.

[edwardb]

TKO shifting issues have been talked about on every forum imaginable pretty much since it came out. I don't doubt that some could be clutch engagement issues. That's going to make any transmission harder to shift. But overwhelmingly the discussion is about the 2nd to 3rd shift. That's where guys talk about it not going in easily, missing it completely, etc. No surprise. A lot of the discussion is guys running drag passes where fast shifting is the rule and a slight hesitation or miss will get a lot of attention. Plus in that situation, typically the shifter is being banged pretty hard, and that's when it's easier to miss in my experience. Here's what is happening. The TKO has three shift rails. 1 + 2, 3 + 4, and 5 + R. The 2nd to 3rd shift moves one rail and then the other, and that's where it's possible to have a problem.

My experience with two TKO's, driven somewhat aggressively at times, is that it's mainly operator controlled. If you put a death grip on the shifter and try to slam it from 2nd to 3rd, there's a chance it will not go in easily unless you exactly hit the shift rail gates. On the other hand, if you just push it from 2nd to 3rd (some even recommend using an open hand) it naturally springs to the center when coming out of 2nd and drops right into 3rd. Easy as can be. Granted, my TKO's are the Liberty modded ones (that's a whole other discussion) but in general I just push and pull them through the gears and they're smooth and very predicable. I did some passes at the charity rides in London last June and that's the first and only time I've had the Coyote at the red line and also shifting as hard and fast as I could. I was just into 3rd when at the cones and lifted. But the 2nd to 3rd shift was a total non-issue.

Quick comment about the T-56. Interestingly, it's a two rail system. 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 on one and 5 + 6 + R on the other. By all accounts the T-56 is a smooth and easy shifting transmission. Haven't heard anything bad about it. I'll find out personally since I just got one a couple of weeks ago for my Coupe build, although I'm probably at least a year away from actually driving. The reasons I went with it have nothing to do with not liking the TKO though. I wouldn't rule out using a TKO because of some perceived shift issue.

BTW, getting that mounting flange off the back of the TKO so it fits into a Roadster is pretty easy with a Sawzall or whatever. Of course fine if Mike does it. Other places (like Liberty) also know about it and will do it as well.

[grluisi150]

I have a T56 with 2015 Coyote. I was told the less effort when shifting the smoother is shifts. Don't grab the shift and force it into gear. Use your fingers and slide it into gear. As far as shifting at 7K I'm saving that for a race track with a lot of pavement.
Gary

[shark92651]

Granted, my TKO's are the Liberty modded ones (that's a whole other discussion) but in general I just push and pull them through the gears and they're smooth and very predicable. I did some passes at the charity rides in London last June and that's the first and only time I've had the Coyote at the red line and also shifting as hard and fast as I could. I was just into 3rd when at the cones and lifted. But the 2nd to 3rd shift was a total non-issue.

After a bit of research and hearing about EdwardB's experience with Liberty Gears, I ordered the TKO 600 Synchronized form them just this week. I don't even have my kit yet, but from all my research it looks like the best route to go and since they just got a pallet of the 600's in stock, went ahead and pulled the trigger on one. The upgraded Synchronized transmissions have quite a few tweaks and mods done to get them running the best they can. I was impressed with the information Blake gave me over the phone.

[edwardb]

After a bit of research and hearing about EdwardB's experience with Liberty Gears, I ordered the TKO 600 Synchronized form them just this week. I don't even have my kit yet, but from all my research it looks like the best route to go and since they just got a pallet of the 600's in stock, went ahead and pulled the trigger on one. The upgraded Synchronized transmissions have quite a few tweaks and mods done to get them running the best they can. I was impressed with the information Blake gave me over the phone.

Hopefully you told them what this was for so they trim the rear case for you. They machine it off and looks like it came from the factory that way. They're local for me so I've been there several times. First class operation.

[shark92651]

Absolutely, I told them all about my build and what I wanted to get out of it. I emailed them a few times and was ready to order a couple weeks ago but they were out of stock. They didn't want to take an order until they got them back in, but got a call from them on Monday so place an order. I went with the .64 OD, seems like the best option for street/highway use. I found the Tremec gear ratio calculator to be very handy:

http://www.tremec.com/calculadora.php

[Svtfreak]

I have a T56 with 2015 Coyote. I was told the less effort when shifting the smoother is shifts. Don't grab the shift and force it into gear. Use your fingers and slide it into gear. As far as shifting at 7K I'm saving that for a race track with a lot of pavement.
Gary

I have to admit that my all time favorite manual has been the t-56 behind the terminator 4.6 4v supercharged motors in 03/04 cobras. If and when I do the coyote swap in my mk4, I will likely use it. I never have been a fan of the TKO’s, the 1-2 shift being the worst feeling to me. I’ve actually stuck with T-5’s and suffered the often rebuilds because I really don’t like the shift feel of the tko’s lol. But, that t-56, man do I like those.

[Packer fan]

Well,
I just mailed my check to Mike Forte.
It’s a gen2 coyote and a t56.
After listening to everyone, I am sure the tko600 would have worked fine.
But Mike really likes the smooth shifting t56.
I believe I will have to change the transmission brace location.

Thanks all,

Jim

[edwardb]

Well,
I just mailed my check to Mike Forte.
It’s a gen2 coyote and a t56.
After listening to everyone, I am sure the tko600 would have worked fine.
But Mike really likes the smooth shifting t56.
I believe I will have to change the transmission brace location.

Thanks all,

Jim

For a Roadster, yes. Some mods are required. Make sure you spend some time studying the ratios of a T-56 compared to the TKO when considering your differential ratio. The T-56 is different. IMO consider a lower ratio than you might with a TKO.

[Svtfreak]

I think you’ll be happy with that. Like ed said, select rear gear carefully. It that should always be the case.

[Packer fan]

I believe that I have the 3.55 in the irs.
If I don’t like it I may have to go with a little more gear.
It looks like the 4.09 might be a good choice.
Thanks Svtfreak.

Jim

[Truthbetold18]

TKO shifting issues have been talked about on every forum imaginable pretty much since it came out. I don't doubt that some could be clutch engagement issues. That's going to make any transmission harder to shift. But overwhelmingly the discussion is about the 2nd to 3rd shift. That's where guys talk about it not going in easily, missing it completely, etc. No surprise. A lot of the discussion is guys running drag passes where fast shifting is the rule and a slight hesitation or miss will get a lot of attention. Plus in that situation, typically the shifter is being banged pretty hard, and that's when it's easier to miss in my experience. Here's what is happening. The TKO has three shift rails. 1 + 2, 3 + 4, and 5 + R. The 2nd to 3rd shift moves one rail and then the other, and that's where it's possible to have a problem.

My experience with two TKO's, driven somewhat aggressively at times, is that it's mainly operator controlled. If you put a death grip on the shifter and try to slam it from 2nd to 3rd, there's a chance it will not go in easily unless you exactly hit the shift rail gates. On the other hand, if you just push it from 2nd to 3rd (some even recommend using an open hand) it naturally springs to the center when coming out of 2nd and drops right into 3rd. Easy as can be. Granted, my TKO's are the Liberty modded ones (that's a whole other discussion) but in general I just push and pull them through the gears and they're smooth and very predicable. I did some passes at the charity rides in London last June and that's the first and only time I've had the Coyote at the red line and also shifting as hard and fast as I could. I was just into 3rd when at the cones and lifted. But the 2nd to 3rd shift was a total non-issue.

Quick comment about the T-56. Interestingly, it's a two rail system. 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 on one and 5 + 6 + R on the other. By all accounts the T-56 is a smooth and easy shifting transmission. Haven't heard anything bad about it. I'll find out personally since I just got one a couple of weeks ago for my Coupe build, although I'm probably at least a year away from actually driving. The reasons I went with it have nothing to do with not liking the TKO though. I wouldn't rule out using a TKO because of some perceived shift issue.

BTW, getting that mounting flange off the back of the TKO so it fits into a Roadster is pretty easy with a Sawzall or whatever. Of course fine if Mike does it. Other places (like Liberty) also know about it and will do it as well.

Lets keep it real and not inflate reality. Red lining the Coyote on the London 1/8th mile piece of street asphalt (not a glued up drag street) and you should be telling us stories of wheel spin and the biggest tire shreadin burn out of your life. Besides, there aint enough feet from the start line to the cones to let the Coyote near the rev limiter in 2nd. Not enough time to hit 3rd if your event coming close to the top end of that stock engine's ability. I KNOW.
Stick to the build stories. Leave the driving stories to the drivers.

[edwardb]

Lets keep it real and not inflate reality. Red lining the Coyote on the London 1/8th mile piece of street asphalt (not a glued up drag street) and you should be telling us stories of wheel spin and the biggest tire shreadin burn out of your life. Besides, there aint enough feet from the start line to the cones to let the Coyote near the rev limiter in 2nd. Not enough time to hit 3rd if your event coming close to the top end of that stock engine's ability. I KNOW.
Stick to the build stories. Leave the driving stories to the drivers.

Are you kidding me? :mad: No, I'm not a professional driver. Never claimed to be. But I know what I did in the passes I ran. I can't imagine why you think I would make up the story. My eyes weren't glued to the tach (kind of busy watching down the street), so I can't say exactly what the RPM's were. But the accelerator was full to the floor (first time for that) and engine was clearly spinning faster than other times when I was watching the tach and it was well north of 6,000. I was in 3rd going by the cones. Sorry if you don't believe me. The point of my post was that the TKO handled the high RPM shifts just fine. Which was the OP's question.

Oh and by the way, the numbers check with my experience. 7,000 RPM with my TKO, 3.55 rear gears, and 25.5 diameter tires (my setup) calculates to 52 mph in 1st and 79 in 2nd. I had the GPS speedo peak speed function zeroed and I was at 86 - 89 MPH on the passes. Checks with just going into 3rd before lifting and decelerating and being near the redline. Yea, but YOU KNOW so I guess I made that up too.

That's multiple pretty negative posts and you only have 8. I don't want or need your insults and especially you telling me what to do. Neither does anyone else. That's not how this forum works. If my posts bother you that much, check out the ignore function.

[shark92651]

Lets keep it real and not inflate reality. Red lining the Coyote on the London 1/8th mile piece of street asphalt (not a glued up drag street) and you should be telling us stories of wheel spin and the biggest tire shreadin burn out of your life. Besides, there aint enough feet from the start line to the cones to let the Coyote near the rev limiter in 2nd. Not enough time to hit 3rd if your event coming close to the top end of that stock engine's ability. I KNOW.
Stick to the build stories. Leave the driving stories to the drivers.

You've been here for like 20 minutes and already insulting one of the most senior and helpful members on the forum. Not cool. Why don't you post up photos of your build and your workmanship if you want to earn some cred here.

[Packer fan]

Lighten up there Francis.

I just like that line��.
You all have good comments. I believe that some of the differences in experiences can also be chalked up to different rear ends.

I thank you all for your comments,

[lewma]

You've been here for like 20 minutes and already insulting one of the most senior and helpful members on the forum. Not cool. Why don't you post up photos of your build and your workmanship if you want to earn some cred here.

Agreed. You cannot possibly question edwardb's credibility or pedigree on this forum at all. Take a few hours and read all his contributions!

[David Hodgkins]

Big brother is taking notes.

[cgundermann]

Are you kidding me? :mad: No, I'm not a professional driver. Never claimed to be. But I know what I did in the passes I ran. I can't imagine why you think I would make up the story. My eyes weren't glued to the tach (kind of busy watching down the street), so I can't say exactly what the RPM's were. But the accelerator was full to the floor (first time for that) and engine was clearly spinning faster than other times when I was watching the tach and it was well north of 6,000. I was in 3rd going by the cones. Sorry if you don't believe me. The point of my post was that the TKO handled the high RPM shifts just fine. Which was the OP's question.

Oh and by the way, the numbers check with my experience. 7,000 RPM with my TKO, 3.55 rear gears, and 25.5 diameter tires (my setup) calculates to 52 mph in 1st and 79 in 2nd. I had the GPS speedo peak speed function zeroed and I was at 86 - 89 MPH on the passes. Checks with just going into 3rd before lifting and decelerating and being near the redline. Yea, but YOU KNOW so I guess I made that up too.

That's multiple pretty negative posts and you only have 8. I don't want or need your insults and especially you telling me what to do. Neither does anyone else. That's not how this forum works. If my posts bother you that much, check out the ignore function.

Okay, game on. Paul is a devoted quality builder/caretaker/librarian to the forum that is selfless with providing information to all builders; no one can question his build quality. He is humble and who knows his driving experience.

I post some stuff, finished a a lifelong career driving fast and instructing. Never underestimate. Saddened by this assumption.



Chris

[cgundermann]

Big brother is taking notes.

Watch for a more than a little bit; self-policing is a beautiful thing.

Chris

[Clover]

I have to admit that my all time favorite manual has been the t-56 behind the terminator 4.6 4v supercharged motors in 03/04 cobras.

A friend of mine let me drive his 04 Cobra which was making around 550rwhp with an aftermarket clutch and I thought it was a bear to drive. I was wondering if you could share how much pressure is normally needed to depress the more standard clutch in a T-56. His clutch took an awful lot of effort to the point I felt like I should yell HI YAH each time I pushed in the pedal. After driving his car I had to adjust back to my own manual at the time because my leg became accustomed to kick starting a old Harley or something. I have always wondered how much different it would be with a more standard clutch. It is still not to late for me to go with a T-56 instead of a TKO.

[Erik W. Treves]

I am using the stock gertag behind the coyote....love it

[Packer fan]

A friend of mine let me drive his 04 Cobra which was making around 550rwhp with an aftermarket clutch and I thought it was a bear to drive. I was wondering if you could share how much pressure is normally needed to depress the more standard clutch in a T-56. His clutch took an awful lot of effort to the point I felt like I should yell HI YAH each time I pushed in the pedal. After driving his car I had to adjust back to my own manual at the time because my leg became accustomed to kick starting a old Harley or something. I have always wondered how much different it would be with a more standard clutch. It is still not to late for me to go with a T-56 instead of a TKO.



I believe the clutch gives the clutch feel and the transmission gives the feel of the shifter. The transmission should not affect the feel of the clutch. Although, if you have a bad experience, it is hard to discount part of the equation.

Jim

[edwardb]

I believe the clutch gives the clutch feel and the transmission gives the feel of the shifter. The transmission should not affect the feel of the clutch. Although, if you have a bad experience, it is hard to discount part of the equation.

Jim

Exactly right. Transmission shouldn't affect the clutch and vice versa. There are several variables that can affect clutch pedal effort. Match the specs of the clutch to the actual HP and intended use for the car. Isn't the place to overspec. Higher horsepower clutch = higher pressure. While I personally don't have any experience, many recommend a dual disk clutch for very high HP applications without a heavy clutch pedal. But they're also roughly twice the price. The clutch setup itself also can make a difference. If cable, should be in good condition and properly routed. Hydraulic has the potential to reduce effort with a properly matched master and slave.

[Svtfreak]

I’ll add to Ed and say, if ford, use a factory ford cable. Aftermarket cables are missing the slick lining that factory one has and, boy, does it make a difference. Huge difference.