Power brakes or no power brakes?

[stevant]

Just looking for opinions...........do you really need it on these cars?

[Itchief]

Congratulations let the fun begin

Rick

[stevant]

Thanks Rick.....I've moved it into the Roadster Build section!! :)

[Just puttering]

It may not work, i have no clue, but just saw this a few days ago.

http://www.abspowerbrake.com

They have an electric over hydraulic master cylinder. It is interesting, power brakes but no big booster can on the firewall and no need for a vacuum line!

[wareaglescott]

I would say you definitely don't "need" it. I'm sure a strong case could be made why it would be nice. I don't have it on mine and have never driven a Cobra that does so I cant really compare. I can say I do not really miss it.

[CraigS]

That depends on the manual brakes you are comparing to. The big Wilwood upgrade- no power needed. Stock Mustang- need some careful tuning and pad compound choice to make these work. But this is fairly well established at this point.

[Jeff Kleiner]

I agree with Craig. Tell us what brake system you plan to use.

Jeff

[jwebb]

I have the standard brake package with a complete kit, what pads are recommended as during go kart I noticed you needed to push pretty hard to stop!

[Itchief]

I used the EBC bluestuff pads and I am very happy with the brakes much better than the pads supplied with the kit

Rick

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Change the pads to one of the HAWK products depending on how you are going to use the car. Huge difference between them & the FFR pads which scared the crap out of me.

[CraigS]

Hawk HPS is quite good w/ little dust. HPS5.0 is the newer version and may offer slightly more grip. HP+ has fantastic grip but is pretty dusty. Street/Race is the newer version and has similar grip (maybe a little more) and dust to HP+. All of these work well at ambient temps so are good for the street. Not all of the compounds are available in all pad sizes.

[Joee]

I have the standard brake package with a complete kit, what pads are recommended as during go kart I noticed you needed to push pretty hard to stop!

Yes for some it takes a bit to get used to manual brakes especially if your daily is newer. I like to be able to choose if I wish to almost lock them or just feather the brakes, power takes feel away. Also with manual you need to get some heat in the pads to reduce effort needed to stop. My race pads HP+ dont even work out back in temps below 40 deg unitl hot sometimes I will lightly drag the ebrake to heat them up. To answer your question as said above no not needed.

[Jim Doak]

Needed? No.

Nice to have? Absolutely.

I originally had manual brakes using the recommended master cylinder, brake pedal mod, etc. Worked fine. However, I retrofit hydroboost power brakes in 2006 and much prefer the current setup to the manual brake system.

I'll wager that if you ask guys like me who have driven both or retrofit from manual to power their preference, the majority will prefer the power brake setup.

Perform a search on this topic on this and the other forum: It's been discussed ad nauseam...

[phileas_fogg]

I have the standard brake package with a complete kit, what pads are recommended as during go kart I noticed you needed to push pretty hard to stop!

Whatever pads you use, be sure to bed them according to the manufacturer's directions. Makes a world of difference in stopping power.


John

[michael everson]

80 plus cars and I try to talk every customer into power brakes.
Mike

[JRL16]

I have the Whitby power brake setup in mine and am glad I installed them. I'm old enough to remember learning and driving many cars with manual brakes and really don't see a need to do it again. As expensive as these cars are to build a little more money spent on brakes is worth it to me.

[stevant]

I’m going with the Wilwood brakes on the build, Gordon Levy setup as I’m using the 15” wheels with the IRS. I’ve driven a MK4 with manual, was not sure what brake system it had but it took a few stop and gos to get the feel. Is the hydroboost setup a true power brake or is is power assisted if that makes any sense. Some power brakes are more sensitive than others.

[edwardb]

I’m going with the Wilwood brakes on the build, Gordon Levy setup as I’m using the 15” wheels with the IRS. I’ve driven a MK4 with manual, was not sure what brake system it had but it took a few stop and gos to get the feel. Is the hydroboost setup a true power brake or is is power assisted if that makes any sense. Some power brakes are more sensitive than others.

Whether vacuum or hydroboost they are power assisted. There is a direct mechanical connection between the brake pedal and the master cylinder when you push it. Either the vacuum diaphragm or hydraulic pump multiplies the force. Similar concept as traditional hydraulic power steering assist.

[TexasAviator]

power brake and power steering is going to be a nice effortless cruiser. If you dont want any power options, I think you may grow tired of it after a while. I am using a fox mustang background as my experience.

[scottiec]

John said it best. BED THE PADS PROPELY before making a decision.

[Mark Dougherty]

my vote is for power brakes.
I have NEVER regretted having or installing power brakes.

[bilwil]

I have driven my car for years without power brakes and it has never been an issue for me.

Bill

[FFinisher]

Yeah- what Mike Everson said- only 35 cars though. Never had a customer say I wish I didn't have power brakes.

[Todd Buttrick]

I have power assist brakes. They look like this...


http://www.pettinelliracing.it/images/omp/ic784_cuoio.jpg

[Packer fan]

I drove a mk4 last fall and when I ordered my kit I had to call the guy that was nice enough to let me drive his car to find out weather he had power brakes or not because it stopped nicely. He doesn’t have power brakes, and I won’t either as a result of that drive...... at least until I change my mind. : )

[Big Blocker]

Quote: "If you don't want any power options, I think you may grow tired of it after a while."

Just to throw this out there, I have been on manual brakes now for 15+ years and can't even imagine adding power. True, I do have 13" rotors in front with PBR calipers and the T-Bird 11.63 Cobra rotors/calipers in back but NO POWER to help out otherwise.

Just my 2¢

and if you are still in the building stage and want power everything . . . I say; Go FOR IT! . . . it's your car, build it the way you want it to be. DON'T build it for anyone on this or any other forum.

Doc

[TexasAviator]

Quote: "If you don't want any power options, I think you may grow tired of it after a while."

Just to throw this out there, I have been on manual brakes now for 15+ years and can't even imagine adding power. True, I do have 13" rotors in front with PBR calipers and the T-Bird 11.63 Cobra rotors/calipers in back but NO POWER to help out otherwise.

Just my 2¢

and if you are still in the building stage and want power everything . . . I say; Go FOR IT! . . . it's your car, build it the way you want it to be. DON'T build it for anyone on this or any other forum.

Doc

I think things are getting taken the wrong way around here lately. I used the words "may" and "my experience" and you seem to have left those words out in the quote.

But, I digress, people see what they want to see.

[j.miller]

So, after all this I say NO !.....well maybe....actually, kinda yes but iffin ya....So, I drove my car 10 years no power.....because of what I do I have driven a whole lot of cars with power. I APPRICIATE POWER BRAKES...do I wish I had had them , not really...will my 289 have them (yes).....I'll tell ya what. getting out of your daily driver and getting into your roadster w/power brakes is easy. The other way around,,,,getting in without power and changing your mindset to shove that peddle to the floor in an emergency sitch could cause a little prob. Ya gotta remember "back in the day" Power brakes were an option ( That's why mom's 64 Plymouth wagon had a brake peddle 12in wide for both feet)....to sum it up A. My glass I'm empty and I need more rum, and 3.You won't be sorry if ya go power...da Bat

[AC Bill]

Who needs brakes? These cars are meant to go..:p

Choosing the correct master cylinder, can make a big difference if you go the non-power route. Larger diameter bore, 15/16" or 1", along with the right choice of brake pads, (properly broken in),and non-power will just work fine. It's a light car.
If your leg muscles are a concern, now, or may be a concern in the future, power is the route to go, as you do need to push fairly hard doing a panic stop.

[cwrandolph]

Who needs brakes? These cars are meant to go..:p

Larger diameter bore, 15/16" or 1", along with the right choice of brake pads, (properly broken in),and non-power will just work fine.

A smaller diameter MC bore will provide more pressure to the brake cylinders for the same pedal effort. Less volume but more force.

[TexasAviator]

what might be effective in this back and forth on power vs manual would be a poll thread. Or make one here if possible. As you can see people are passionate on both sides.

[mike223]

There are almost too many variables in individual driver expectation / hardware / and implementation to discuss it intelligently on the internet (as in - internet attention span).

All this installed in short wheelbase cars with unusual weight bias and (various) staggered fitment tires that are by nature always going to be brake bias sensitive.

[Dave Howard]

I agree with Craig way up the top of this thread. I installed the Wilwood upgrade. NO power brakes required. Minimum effort for braking and as I've said before, "a little girl can lock them up".

[TexasAviator]

Quote: "If you don't want any power options, I think you may grow tired of it after a while."

Just to throw this out there, I have been on manual brakes now for 15+ years and can't even imagine adding power. True, I do have 13" rotors in front with PBR calipers and the T-Bird 11.63 Cobra rotors/calipers in back but NO POWER to help out otherwise.

Just my 2¢

and if you are still in the building stage and want power everything . . . I say; Go FOR IT! . . . it's your car, build it the way you want it to be. DON'T build it for anyone on this or any other forum.

Doc

Just spoke with you off this thread. Thanks for clarifying that. I see your point of many trying to butt in on what may or may not be a must have. I appreciate you using me to back up your thought and not in a way that is attacking anyone. Its ironic we are talking about this. I am doing a team dynamic paper on my Master Degree with a concentration on virtual teams. We are in fact a virtual team right here on this forum. I have met few that are on here in a negative reservation but some are out there. I find you can tell the ones that are not with you in your journey as the silent ones. They are usually posting around you but never with you. Its quite noticeable. :)

[OVCobra]

I went without power brakes using Mustang Cobra (13"/12.88") brakes. Motor is a "moderately" cammed 347 so not much vacuum at idle so vacuum power assist was a non-starter for me. I did not opt for power steering (not much fun paralell parking) so no power steering pump for a hydro-boost.
Makes for a clean installation but as the years pass I will likely come to want the power steering/brakes for OK for now.

[Avalanche325]

Are you a manly man or a girly man? ;)

I am a big fan of Wilwoods. I drove a MKI with stock brakes that was not much short of terrifying brake-wise. I am sure that the stock brakes now are much better. That being said, no one has ever had a car that could stop too fast.

I would consider power brakes with a more standard setup.

[Frank Messina]

Power brakes are not necessary IMO. But for many with various combinations of parts and pads, power assist is the great equalizer in the grand scheme of things. Personally I prefer manual.

Frank

[stevant]

I'm afraid to respond...LOL. I appreciate everyone's opinion. As that's one of the reason why we build our cars. My kit should be here in a few weeks so I will be posting my progress. Looking forward to everyone's input. Thanks for the vast amount of responses.

[TexasAviator]

I'm afraid to respond...LOL. I appreciate everyone's opinion. As that's one of the reason why we build our cars. My kit should be here in a few weeks so I will be posting my progress. Looking forward to everyone's input. Thanks for the vast amount of responses.

don't be its all in good fun. We all have our own way of doing the car
I think you will find your way.

[Papa]

Steve (OP) asked a question to get feedback and opinions. Plenty have been provided, and there is obviously no one-size-fits-all for this particular build decision. The problem for those of us that are new to these cars is that we often have no experience driving them and have to decipher the opinions of those that have. I learned to drive in a car with manual everything -- almost to the Flintstone level! All the cars I've owned since have had power steering and brakes until now with my MKIV. I split the difference on mine and went with power steering and manual brakes (Wilwood). My faded memories of that first car were more about trying to steer the car in a parking situation rather than getting the car to stop. With just my go-cart experience, I'm very happy with the decisions I've made. The steering feels perfect so far, although I haven't had the car above about 50 MPH. The braking feels good, but I haven't done any hard "panic" stops yet. So, after 40 posts to this thread, Steve still gets to decide for himself what he builds. :)

[Big Blocker]

To everyone following this thread - and just for a good laugh . . .

My wife once said to me: "Someday you'll have to sell your car and get something more "Old Guy" compatible" (I'm 69 now). I responded: "Honey, when I get too old to steer the car, it'll get power steering. When I get too old to stop the Cobra, it'll get power brakes. And when I get too old to feel comfortable driving it, it'll get A/C, heat, wipers, seats that have adjustable lumbar support and a top so I don't get wet any more in the rain". An a stereo . . . Ha-Ha-Ha!

Right now I'm enjoying the "raw [street legal] race car" experience . . .

Doc

[Itchief]

Build the best car that you can afford with the options you’ve always wanted and use the opinions of forum members to help make informed decisions

Sometimes you will make good decisions and sometimes you will make not so good ones that’s why my car will be a work in progress for a while longer while I keep trying to make it better

Rick

[Rick1916]

Guess another opinion won’t hurt. I’ve got Wilwoods front and rear. I bought the car assembled so can’t be sure but I think Gordon Levy most likely sold them to first builder. I’ve tracked the car enough to tell you that it takes some heat for them to work well. But once up to temp they work just fine. I like that there’s one less component up front too. Oh, and I politely disagree with those who advocate a larger master cylinder bore. You want more hydraulic pressure in your system not less. True, a smaller diameter master cylinder will result in longer pedal travel but your right thigh will thank you for less pedal force.

[Slider]

80 plus cars and I try to talk every customer into power brakes.
Mike

Mike, I'm starting a build of the Gen 3 Coupe in a couple of months... (I built a MKIV about 5 years ago). Which brake booster do you recommend?