Engine choice....thoughts????

[Scubasommer]

Hi guys

I have a couple months before my MK4 shows up ....however I have been struggling with which power plant to drop in.
My options are a 1969 351 Windsor bored and stroked to a 427
OR
A 1969 FE motor

I have been bouncing around on this question for months. FE ....to much cockpit heat and nose heavy but that FE Cobra look????
351/427 with better handling while still getting the cubes???

My racing days are pretty much over.....so mostly cruising and show use.
Thoughts?

[irapilot]

For my 2 cents worth I'd go the bored and stroked 351 Windsor route. For the normal cruising around I'd rather have the lighter weight abd better braking and handling that go along with it even if I am not going to fully put it to the test.

Less weight and motor size also makes the install easier ............

[CraigS]

A stock block 351 can only go to 408 as far as I know. That's what I would use. Also there are VCs that kind of duplicate the look of a big block.

[Itchief]

I build mine with a 390FE and while I love the power and sound of a big block a lopey cam and hooker headers here are a few things that you may want to consider

I went with a big block because I had a deal that was too good to pass up a friend at work sold me a crate 390 that he dropped 12k into for 4k

The flywheel clutch pressure plate and bell house will cost you more than a sbf
You will lose space in the pedal box on the drivers side so the space is tight
The weight distributor will change to about 60/40 with about 1700 lbs front and 1000 lbs rear which means you will have to change the front and rear springs and sway bars or at least I did
You may want to include power steering

But having said that the Car is a blast to drive

Rick

[mike223]

A stock block 351 can only go to 408 as far as I know.




+1, and I'd suggest 393 for a more sensible piston / rod / compression height / rod ratio...





The weight distributor will change to about 60/40 with about 1700 lbs front and 1000 lbs rear which means you will have to change the front and rear springs and sway bars or at least I did




That sounds like awful lot in front to me - is that the actual observed weight on your car?

I have previously heard that the FE will run ~125 to 200lbs more than the 351w, when using aluminum heads, intake, and water pump (on both engines).

[Itchief]

Mine is old school with cast iron heads and water pump and the FE seems to sit farther forward than a sbf

Just measured the spring compression southern WV is not the hot rod capital and I did not want to spend the money for a set of scales


Rick

[Bob Cowan]

A stock block 351 can only go to 408 as far as I know. That's what I would use. Also there are VCs that kind of duplicate the look of a big block.

Not true. There are plenty of kits available to bore the stock block .060" over and make a 427. The '69 can handle it because there's enough meat there. Newer blocks are cast with thinner cylinder walls and are limited to 408 cubes.

Personally, I would go with the Windsor stroker. Lighter, smaller, cheaper, and easier to fit in there. Easier to work on later, too.

[mike223]

My racing days are pretty much over.....so mostly cruising and show use.




In this particular case...

You'd save a lot of money, reliability and heartache sticking with OEM parts + displacement.


A stock 302 is plenty to get most people in over their heads, performance wise.

[BluePrintEngines]

Before you rebuild anything you have, especially since this is just for cruising, I'd take a look at our standard blueprint line. Some of the ford smallblocks we sell are cheaper than you can buy the parts and build your own. Plus you get a 30 mo warranty and every engine is dyno tested. I don't think you can beat the price unless you're reusing all the stock rotating assembly and doing the work yourself.

here's a list of SBF engines, sorted from price low-high.
https://blueprintengines.com/collections/ford-crate-engines?sort_by=price-ascending

Good luck either way!

[Big Blocker]

You have a lot more options then just those two power plants . . . Starting with a "small" block engine, you can go from 289, 302 (5.0) to 347 (a popular choice with a lot of builders), Light weight, small engine compartment footprint and parts are readily available everywhere.

"Medium" block engines start at 351 and can go to 427 if you want to take it out to it's extreme internal dimensions. An extra 100-150 Lbs but part are still [pretty much] available from all the vendors that will sell you SB parts, although, not as many chioices for manifolds due to engine height in a Cobra.

BIG block, run from 352 to 454 (with stroke kits) and are by far the heaviest (add another 100 Lbs over the 351), even with aluminum parts. And parts are at a premium for these engines. Buying a 50 year old block will absolutely require a block sonic test to verify block integrity. I [personally] would not use a 50 year old crank or rods - nothing but the newest stuff for the rotating assembly.

And then there's always the 385 series engines, 429 and 460 . . . monster motor in a tight space to start and parts are rare without paying top dollar.

AND I haven't even said anything about all the newer "modular" engines available now . . . think all aluminum, overhead cam(s), coil on plugs, factory blowers . . . the [dream] list goes on.

Just my 2¢, I've worked on all of them from time-to-time.



IF you are just thinking about cruising, consider the SBF and some decent rear gears, like 3.25's - great gas mileage, plenty of power for a light car.

Doc

[Itchief]

Doc

From my experience You are correct when you say big block just say mo money

Rick

[Scubasommer]

Thank you!

[Scubasommer]

Doc
Thank you for your input.
The power plant choices I mention are in my garage as I used to build 69’ Mach1’s and still have one
In the garage.
But I also have the 2 “extra” engines which are “half built including block massaging.

Is there a substantial cockpit heat difference in the Cobra?
Thank you again

[Scubasommer]

Rick
Is the lost foot box area significant? I was at the factory a couple weeks ago and sat in Dave’s
Anniversary roadster, and was thinking of opening up the foot box as it is. Also do you feel that there is
Additional heat in the cockpit area...?

Thank you for your input my friend

[Scubasommer]

Not true. There are plenty of kits available to bore the stock block .060" over and make a 427. The '69 can handle it because there's enough meat there. Newer blocks are cast with thinner cylinder walls and are limited to 408 cubes.

Personally, I would go with the Windsor stroker. Lighter, smaller, cheaper, and easier to fit in there. Easier to work on later, too.

Thank you Bob!!!!

[Itchief]

My guess is that you will loose about an inch and a half on the right hand side of the foot box

I wear a size ten shoes and I have to wear driving shoes so that my foot will fit between the brake pedal and the foot box

I installed hushmat summits version of dyna mat on all the cockpit AL panels and then installed carpet which seems to help with the heat

If you decided to go with a big block let me know and I will try to explain some of the issues I had to work through

Good luck

Rick

[erlihemi]

If your serious about an FE and you have FE components already maybe a look at Bear Block Motors or one of the other FE aluminum block castings is worth the time. That and a different forum with other viewpoints just to balance the input.

[Scubasommer]

My guess is that you will loose about an inch and a half on the right hand side of the foot box

I wear a size ten shoes and I have to wear driving shoes so that my foot will fit between the brake pedal and the foot box

I installed hushmat summits version of dyna mat on all the cockpit AL panels and then installed carpet which seems to help with the heat

If you decided to go with a big block let me know and I will try to explain some of the issues I had to work through

Good luck

Rick

Thanks Brother!!! I guess my size 12’s would be an issue ��

[GoDadGo]

A 363 Dart (Factory Five Jedi Friendly Engine) Would Yield Plenty Of Power With The Most Under The Hood Room Possible!

http://dartheads.com/dart-product/shp-short-blocks-sbf/



Unless of course you go to the Dark Dart Side!

https://youtu.be/IGYtX-3p7xk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vhbftk4AP4k

[Papa]

Before you rebuild anything you have, especially since this is just for cruising, I'd take a look at our standard blueprint line. Some of the ford smallblocks we sell are cheaper than you can buy the parts and build your own. Plus you get a 30 mo warranty and every engine is dyno tested. I don't think you can beat the price unless you're reusing all the stock rotating assembly and doing the work yourself.

here's a list of SBF engines, sorted from price low-high.
https://blueprintengines.com/collections/ford-crate-engines?sort_by=price-ascending

Good luck either way!

I'm very happy with my BluePrint 347 and TKO600. It dyno'd at 438 hp and 415 Lb-Ft. Dropped right into the engine bay and started on the first turn of the key. No leaks, no fuss, and more power than I'll ever be able to use.

Dave

[Just puttering]

It may not matter, but the question that goes through my mind with these questions is -

Are you going to try to make a period correct car down to the smallest details? That could sway your decision!

[Bob Cowan]

It may not matter, but the question that goes through my mind with these questions is -

Are you going to try to make a period correct car down to the smallest details? That could sway your decision!

If that's your goal, you shouldn't be starting with a FFR.

[Just puttering]

I looks like i missed saying period correct look

[Scubasommer]

It may not matter, but the question that goes through my mind with these questions is -

Are you going to try to make a period correct car down to the smallest details? That could sway your decision!

That’s a great question.....no...too many mods I want to make...

[Big Blocker]

Scuba,

Only reason that the big block is more of a heat factor is it's closer to the side walls of the engine compartment. An engine at 180° is at 180° big or small block.

For the "WOW!" factor, build the big block - nothing screams raw power and brute force more then looking in the engine bay and seeing an FE.

For the clearance you might need with your size 12 feet, build the 351 and push the gas pedal side of the footbox out toward the engine a bit - an easy mod. The 351 can be very potent if put together with the right stuff.

If you just want to cruise around but can't live without the Big block look, build a 302 to a 347 and put the adapters on that let you run FE valve cover. Most people don't know what they are looking anyway an can be fooled into thinking it a BB from just a quick glance. Hell, most can't tell the difference between a 302 and 351 . . . or a 390 and a 427.

If you have all the parts for one engine, go that route and git-er-dun as money-wise as possible and spend you hard earned cash on the mod you want to do.

Doc

[Joee]

I am in hi perf 302 camp but, since you already have the motors and not looking to race I think the 69 would be the way to go. Question are the motors you have completely dressed? If so 69 will look great at shows and the other weekly hood openings.

Then you can always answer the is it a big block question with a hell yes.

And your size 12s are going to add to challenge.

[Big Blocker]

Actually, after re-reading this thread from top to bottom, I still don't know if the "FE" is a 427 or something else in that family. IF it's a 427, side oiler or center oiler, it's going to be expensive to complete. IF it's anything less, it won't be as expensive due to the fact that you won't have to "upgrade" (read: make everything heavy duty) the rest of the drive train. Your standard T5 should hold up quite well to say a 400HP 390. Small blocks push that much thru T5's every day . . .

If it was my car and I had those two engines to pick from, knowing that they are almost complete, I'd build the FE in a heartbeat . . . but that's how I got my forum handle, used to build BB Ford's back in the old days.

Just my 2¢ and not worth a plugged nickle

Doc

[Scubasommer]

Scuba,

Only reason that the big block is more of a heat factor is it's closer....
Doc

Thanks Doc
The FE was a 1969 390 police interceptor that has been bored and stroked to roughly 427 cubes and is sitting in my 1969 Mach1.
The original engine that was in my Mach is the 351 Windsor which I pulled and is sitting on an engine stand bored for a 427 displacement and accompanying block work completed....

Always told my wife that when we hit 50 years old I would build us a cobra and drop that engine in.

Watched Factory Five since 1995 and almost pulled the trigger 3 times, after watching NAF and others in the 80’s with their kits. REALLY like what FF5 has done and progression into.
I lost my wife of 34 years (high school sweetheart) 2 months ago from an aggressive brain cancer ....never sick a day in her life prior. Realized how short life is and what is missed “when life gets in the way”

So I hopped a Train from Chicago to Boston...visited FF5 and my kit is coming in July.

After typing this longgggg reply to you my feelings and mind is made up....351/427 like I told ma’am!!!!

Thanks for the therapy my friend!!
Regards
Jimmy

[Itchief]

I’m sure that you will build a Cobra that she will be proud of

Rick

[JRL16]

I have a 427W from engine factory in mine and am very happy with it. Lots of power and sounds great. Plus I always wanted a 427 in mine when I was considering my build. I know it's not the original 427 engines but still wanted a 427.

[Scubasommer]

I’m sure that you will build a Cobra that she will be proud of

Rick

Thanks Brother!!!!

[Scubasommer]

I have a 427W from engine factory in mine and am very happy with it. Lots of power and sounds great. Plus I always wanted a 427 in mine when I was considering my build. I know it's not the original 427 engines but still wanted a 427.

Does engine factory have a website and do they sell rotating assembly?

[tonywy]

Jimmy, first of all sorry for your loss, can't imagine. In my opinion big block all the way. It may cost you more up front but you will get it back in more ways than one. Nothing sounds ,looks or is as cool .

[JRL16]

Their website is enginefactory.com. Not sure if they’ll sell a partial engine but can’t hurt to ask. Had really good service and engine is incredible.

[CobraboyDR]

Actually, after re-reading this thread from top to bottom, I still don't know if the "FE" is a 427 or something else in that family. IF it's a 427, side oiler or center oiler, it's going to be expensive to complete. IF it's anything less, it won't be as expensive due to the fact that you won't have to "upgrade" (read: make everything heavy duty) the rest of the drive train. Your standard T5 should hold up quite well to say a 400HP 390. Small blocks push that much thru T5's every day . . .

If it was my car and I had those two engines to pick from, knowing that they are almost complete, I'd build the FE in a heartbeat . . . but that's how I got my forum handle, used to build BB Ford's back in the old days.

Just my 2¢ and not worth a plugged nickle

DocThe "FE's are expensive" is overblown.

Yes, a 427 side or top oiler, Cammer or some 4289's can get spendy. But solid 390's and 406's are definitely not and can be easily dressed to look exactly as even a side-oiler to all but the most FE-intense geeks, and even they ca't get to see the whole block easily. They can even machine simulated cross bolts onto the block skirt.

One company, the folks I used for FE's when I was an SPF dealer---including assembly of my personal side-oiler---is Southern Automotive in McDonough GA. You can get a 390 for almost the same price of a SBF: Southern Automotive 406 FE. (http://www.southernautomotiveengines.com/406) 390's are plentiful.

NOTHING looks more impressive than a real FE in a Cobra, period. If you aren't racing, if you're just cruising, the weight difference is no big deal. Put on aluminum heads, intake and water pump and they don't weigh more than a standard 351w.

[BluePrintEngines]

I'm very happy with my BluePrint 347 and TKO600. It dyno'd at 438 hp and 415 Lb-Ft. Dropped right into the engine bay and started on the first turn of the key. No leaks, no fuss, and more power than I'll ever be able to use.

Dave

Thank you! people forget we have everything from a little 302 to a 427 in the SBF lineup!
http://factoryfiveengines.com/blueprint-engines-factory-five-engines/blueprint-engines-mk4-roadster-engines/ford-427-carbureted-mk4

[broku518]

I guess it all depends on your experience level and willingness to get dirty and tweak as needed.
I am on 'don't do anything with the engine unless you have to!" side ;)

I picked dart shp 347, tko600 and read end (all new) from Mike Forte. Don't ask me why - I really liked the old style look of it and simplicity. And, I 'bug' Mike all the time, and the support is just outstanding.

[Avalanche325]

These days, a big block is good for two things. 1. Car shows. 2. You just gotta have it. If that is you, go for it. They have their own awesomeness and definitely a wow factor.

Besides that, a small block is the way to go. Lower cost, easier to work on, you can get tons of power and torque from a stroker. If you want these cars to perform, you want to keep them light, and keep the weight rear biased. In the real Cobra world, the 289 was an unbelievable success on the track. The 427......not really. Maybe that's not quite fair because race cars were moving into aerodynamics and having a roof. But the records say what the records say. The 427 is the wow factor car though because it is so outrageous.

With that said......here is my real advice. Within your financial constraints of course. Build the car, that if you drove it to a Cobra event and you could drive any car there back home, yours is the car that you would choose. You are doing the right thing by thinking it through now. If a certain engine sings to you, and is going to fit what you want to do with the car, go for it.

I built my car to drive, perform very well, be quick at autocross, and have the old school vibe. That sent me straight to a 347. Car shows are very far form being my thing. That may have led me elsewhere, engine-wise.

[japollon]

I have a small block 427 in a Detomaso Pantera. Had I to do it over again, I would do exactly the same thing. It's been a great motor. Maybe not as torquey as a big block but very strong through the mid-range. It's kind of the best of both worlds in my view. Just my 2 cents. Joel

[Scubasommer]

Thank you! people forget we have everything from a little 302 to a 427 in the SBF lineup!
http://factoryfiveengines.com/blueprint-engines-factory-five-engines/blueprint-engines-mk4-roadster-engines/ford-427-carbureted-mk4

Do you guys offer rotating assemblies? There are parts I wish to get for the internals of my prepped 1969 351w block?

[Scubasommer]

These days, a big block is good for two things. 1. Car shows. 2. You just gotta have it. If that is you, go for it. They have their own awesomeness and definitely a wow factor.

Besides that, a small block is the way to go. Lower cost, easier to work on, you can get tons of power and torque from a stroker. If you want these cars to perform, you want to keep them light, and keep the weight rear biased. In the real Cobra world, the 289 was an unbelievable success on the track. The 427......not really. Maybe that's not quite fair because race cars were moving into aerodynamics and having a roof. But the records say what the records say. The 427 is the wow factor car though because it is so outrageous.

With that said......here is my real advice. Within your financial constraints of course. Build the car, that if you drove it to a Cobra event and you could drive any car there back home, yours is the car that you would choose. You are doing the right thing by thinking it through now. If a certain engine sings to you, and is going to fit what you want to do with the car, go for it.

I built my car to drive, perform very well, be quick at autocross, and have the old school vibe. That sent me straight to a 347. Car shows are very far form being my thing. That may have led me elsewhere, engine-wise.

Thank you !!!!

[Scubasommer]

I have a small block 427 in a Detomaso Pantera. Had I to do it over again, I would do exactly the same thing. It's been a great motor. Maybe not as torquey as a big block but very strong through the mid-range. It's kind of the best of both worlds in my view. Just my 2 cents. Joel

Thanks Joel...I think I like where your head is at!

[glastron351]

I have a 351w stroked to 408 in a 95 mustang that I`m pulling and putting into my roadster. It dynoed at 435 at the wheels with a very conservative tune in the mustang. Was an absolute blast to drive in that car....should be even more insane in a car 1000lbs less. I know there are lots of guys that run a lot more hp...they obviously have bigger cahonas than me :)

just my small input for a stroked smb.

Cheers

[Joee]

Do you guys offer rotating assemblies? There are parts I wish to get for the internals of my prepped 1969 351w block?

Contact Gordon Levy at Levy Racing he sells rotating assemblys.

[Scubasommer]

I have a 351w stroked to 408 in a 95 mustang that I`m pulling and putting into my roadster. It dynoed at 435 at the wheels with a very conservative tune in the mustang. Was an absolute blast to drive in that car....should be even more insane in a car 1000lbs less. I know there are lots of guys that run a lot more hp...they obviously have bigger cahonas than me :)

just my small input for a stroked smb.

Cheerscool cool!!

[Scubasommer]

Contact Gordon Levy at Levy Racing he sells rotating assemblys.

Thanks Joee!

[wineguy]

Hi folks - I am new and hope to purchase my MK4 complete kit this summer. I am researching engines (great thread here!), and am curious if this is a good engine? Small block 427 kicking out 480HP?

https://blueprintengines.com/collections/ford-crate-engines/products/ford-427-ps1

I noticed BluePrint didn't have this engine available on the factoryfiveengines.com site? Any idea why?

Thanks for your help!

[Murd]

Hi folks - I am new and hope to purchase my MK4 complete kit this summer. I am researching engines (great thread here!), and am curious if this is a good engine? Small block 427 kicking out 480HP?

https://blueprintengines.com/collections/ford-crate-engines/products/ford-427-ps1

I noticed BluePrint didn't have this engine available on the factoryfiveengines.com site? Any idea why?

Thanks for your help!

Looks like they do have a 427w on their Ffengines site, just bit different spec, I’m sure they would make you whatever you want.
Are you sure you want 500hp? Couple years ago when I was just starting tearing down my donor, I met a guy with a mk4 with a 427w in it. When I asked him what we would do differently if he built again he said he would put a stock 250hp 302 in it, said he could barely drive it with all the power and it wasn’t fun.

I know some can drive with that much power to weight, but is that what you want/need?

[Joee]

Looks like they do have a 427w on their Ffengines site, just bit different spec, I’m sure they would make you whatever you want.
Are you sure you want 500hp? Couple years ago when I was just starting tearing down my donor, I met a guy with a mk4 with a 427w in it. When I asked him what we would do differently if he built again he said he would put a stock 250hp 302 in it, said he could barely drive it with all the power and it wasn’t fun.

I know some can drive with that much power to weight, but is that what you want/need?

Ideal powerful fun driver, AutoX and track fun car is 300 rwhp and a 3.55 rear.

[wineguy]

Thanks @Murd and @Joee. I think I am leaning towards the 347.

What are your thoughts on BluePoint vs Roush? Carb vs injected? (I am in California if that matters)

Thanks!!!!!
-Zack

[Bob Cowan]

There's no such thing as too much power, only not enough control.

[Itchief]

With the price drop of EFI in the past couple of years I would go with EFI

I converted from a carburetor to EFI and would not go back

Rick

[Jim1855]

Per Bob Cowan
There's no such thing as too much power, only not enough control.

I agree completely. The SAFETY is that small thread between your brain (big assumptions here) and your right foot. Tread lightly and you'll be just fine, get stupid and funny (not ha ha) things will happen. Remember, lifting from the gas pedal quickly causes as many problems as mashing it.

I started with a 351/427 at about 500 hp, a few tweeks later and it's about 540 at the crank and 440 at the wheels (Mustang dyno). 60-65k miles on the motor and I wouldn't change a thing, well except for another 50-100 hp. Yes, that much power isn't necessary but it sure is fun.

EFI is looking better all the time and it will help to make the motor more tractable and easier to drive. Carbs are sometimes a wee bit temperamental. It's probably easier to find a variety of good EFI tuners, the carb tuning masters are fading away.

I think I'd give serious consideration to the BluePrint team. Looks like they have good builds and great value.

Jim

[mike223]

Are you sure you want 500hp?

if he built again he said he would put a stock 250hp 302 in it, said he could barely drive it with all the power and it wasn’t fun.

I know some can drive with that much power to weight, but is that what you want/need?




Ideal powerful fun driver, AutoX and track fun car is 300 rwhp and a 3.55 rear.


There's no such thing as too much power, only not enough control.




Tread lightly and you'll be just fine, get stupid and funny (not ha ha) things will happen. Remember, lifting from the gas pedal quickly causes as many problems as mashing it.

I started with a 351/427 at about 500 hp, a few tweeks later and it's about 540 at the crank and 440 at the wheels (Mustang dyno). 60-65k miles on the motor and I wouldn't change a thing, well except for another 50-100 hp. Yes, that much power isn't necessary but it sure is fun.




All these statements are essentially true.


Go much north of 300hp and you will have to be "on edge" and very much on top of your game when shifting into 3rd gear on a hard run (drag strip).

Learn to drive it, or ABSOLUTELY DO NOT put yourself in that situation with the throttle pedal.


How fast do you want to be going and still able to spin the rear tires at will?

Or more importantly, by accident?


You certainly get to that point by ~400hp, with most tires and most road conditions (normal highway speeds).


Are you ready to have the rear end step out on you at 70 - 80 mph?


Because if you put yourself in that situation there are only two ways out: "Near perfect driver input" or "upside down in ditch".

[wineguy]

Thanks everyone! I know, in the past, folks bought engines at the FFR open house (to save a bit of cash). With no open house this year (I think), are there ever BluePrint sales/specials?

[Big Blocker]

Much over 350 HP is a waste of HP, period. Higher HP will get you at the gas pump. Higher HP engines require more octane which sells at higher prices. Lower HP engines that are not hopped up to ridicules amounts can [usually] be run on standard 87-89 octane levels (read: cheap gas) Higher HP engines won't get the MPG that a lower HP engine gets. Stock block 5.0 engines are capable of 25+ MPG with the right rear gears. Do a search for gas mileage of the high HP cars on either forum and you'll find answers around 8-10, some a bit higher. How many times do you want to stop for gas on that long cruise you have on your bucket list?? Fill every 100 or fill every 300 . . .

That being said, these cars weigh in at about 2200 Lbs. and get stupid squirrely in a heartbeat with an inexperienced driver at the wheel. Most builders fall into this bracket, at least at first. There is a learning curve with ownership of a Cobra. Most will find that the car is capable of things they are not. Best advice is spend some time at an Autocross track event to find out what you are capable of with your newly assembled full-bodied go-cart.

There will always be those with the "bigger is better" ideology and while that works for some things, Cobra HP isn't one of them.

Just my 2¢ and not worth a plugged nickle. Let the flaming begin.

OH yeah, about EFI . . . lets you drive from sea level to over 14K Ft with no issues - can't do that with a carb. Easy starting, great fuel economy, great on "twisty" mountain roads at speed (no fuel sloshing around in fuel bowls), Great throttle response, most newer models self learn so no constant "tweaking".

Doc

[Yama-Bro]

Do you guys offer rotating assemblies? There are parts I wish to get for the internals of my prepped 1969 351w block?

Hi Scuba, we don't have rotating assemblies at this time.

[Scubasommer]

Hi Scuba, we don't have rotating assemblies at this time.

Thanks for gettin back to me brother!

[dhuff]

One word. VOODO. ��

[Itchief]

We have talked a lot about motor choices but if I had one do over building this ride that would be to go with a different rear end gear ratio

I think that if you build a roadster with 400+hp a 3.27 or 3.08 would be a better match than the 3.55

It would make the car have a little longer legs and help with mpg, 70 mph in 5th gear at 2100 rpm is not bad but I think that 70 mph at around 1800 or 1900 rpm would be a better experience

Just my 2 cents

Rick

[mike223]

I think that if you build a roadster with 400+hp a 3.27 or 3.08 would be a better match than the 3.55



Completely agree.

I tried to build 500hp / 500'# torque / 393w.

Started with 3.55 - scared hell out of me - on shifts to third (spin tires rolling into half throttle).

Much happier with 3.15~3.21.

Next time I have the heads off I will go with a thicker head gasket to reduce compression (currently 10.5:1).


Gives me less need for 93 octane / less chance of detonation / lower pucker factor at ~70mph shifts to third....


Plenty for me.

Good luck...

[Scubasommer]

We have talked a lot about motor choices but if I had one do over building this ride that would be to go with a different rear end gear ratio

I think that if you build a roadster with 400+hp a 3.27 or 3.08 would be a better match than the 3.55

It would make the car have a little longer legs and help with mpg, 70 mph in 5th gear at 2100 rpm is not bad but I think that 70 mph at around 1800 or 1900 rpm would be a better experience

Just my 2 cents

Rick

Makes a lot of sense! Rick do you have pics of your 390 with the EFI???
How big of a deal is throwing EFI onto a 69 naturally aspirated engine?
I am OLD school and have never worked with EFI

Thanks
Jimmy

[Avalanche325]

There's no such thing as too much power, only not enough control.
AMEN, BROTHER!!!!!

Getting real. A high HP car is not for everyone. Especially a high HP, lightweight, short wheel-based, no electronic nanny car. I have met 3 people with Cobras (and not really monster ones) that are terrified of them. They putt to the occasional car show and back again.

Some people use an accelerator pedal like an on-off switch. In a Cobra, that can get your lights switched off in a hurry. You need to learn finesse and control. When you do, the car rewards you. If you don't, it will punish you for any acts of stupidity that modern cars forgive over and over again.

Here comes my pitch. AUTOCROSS. If you have not autocrossed your Cobra, you have no idea what it, and you, can do. If you think you have driven it really hard on the street, I beg to differ. I recommend doing 3 events just as safety training. If you didn't spin out, you didn't push hard enough. Who knows, you might like it. :-) I had a season, where I logged at least one spin per event. I don't spin that often any more, and am way quicker than I used to be.

[Avalanche325]

Do a search for gas mileage of the high HP cars on either forum and you'll find answers around 8-10, some a bit higher.

Doc

Mileage? What's that? 347 - 500FWHP. 12MPG cruising. Yes, you have to feed those ponies! Glad to see that someone else mentioned autocross.


That also leads to, if you go carb, don't base the size on the engine size. Base it on your expected HP. Somehow those 1960s charts just won't go away. A 225 hp 302 and a 400hp 302 have different fuel requirements.

Some other comments, based on reading the rest of the way down.

You can get surprisingly high HP on 93 octane these days. For any given HP level, a larger engine will be a milder engine. My 347 carb @ 500hp is pretty nasty. A 500hp 460, would be much milder. I specifically wanted nasty, so that works for me. I have an Infiniti for when I want to be civilized.

Some other comments, based on reading the rest of the way down.
Rear end ratio. People talk about it in isolation. The transmission and rear TOGETHER determine you rear ratio (tire diameter too if you want to go there). I have a TKO600 RR with 3.31 gears. I have a lower gear ratio than my friend that has a T-5 and 3.55.

More HP should = stickier tires and better brakes. It also means LOUDER. I have Flowmasters, and it is still too loud.

[Itchief]

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/album.php?albumid=1162&attachmentid=73081


Jim

Here is a pic of my 390 with the efi installed I have an edelbrock performer rpm intake and only have about four inches of clearance for the air cleaner I’m not happy with the current air cleaner I would like to install a cold air intake at some point

I am not trying to endorse the MSD atomic but I found it easy to install and the instructions are well written go to msd performance and you can download and print the instructions. http://documents.msdperformance.com/2910.pdf This was my first efi and I had to read the instructions a couple of times before I started to get a handle on all the terms

You can make it as simple as just efi with no timing control my choice or have it control timing etc

I started with a quickfuel 780 and converted to efi with a in tank pump and firewall mounted pressure regulator

With all the help and knowledge on this forum I’m sure you can install a efi if that’s your choice

Rick

[mike223]

If you don't, it will punish you for any acts of stupidity that modern cars forgive over and over again.



And may I add this angle - Anyone who didn't want something to challenge themselves, and occasionally scare the hell out of themselves...

What exactly were you thinking?





If you think you have driven it really hard on the street, I beg to differ.




Another +1 on autocross.

Everyone reading this really ought to do it at least long enough to figure out what inputs cause bad outcomes in a safe environment...

[Avalanche325]

82122

I’m not happy with the current air cleaner.......

Rick

Engine Masters did an air cleaner test. You can find it on Youtube. That "Fly eye" air cleaner cost them 72HP! They estimated that it can handle up to 300hp (flywheel). After that, it is a serious restriction. It was 16th out of 19 tested. I think they are also known for being a pretty poor filter. They LOOK like they would be much better than they are. I would either hang it on the wall, or throw it in the trash.

[BluePrintEngines]

Thanks everyone! I know, in the past, folks bought engines at the FFR open house (to save a bit of cash). With no open house this year (I think), are there ever BluePrint sales/specials?

You're welcome to shoot me an email and we can look at all your options. Sometimes if you catch us at a show we run specials, but we have a bunch of configurations pending your needs that might be more economical anyways.

Johnny@blueprintengines.com

[Itchief]

Avalanche

Thanks for the information I have watched these guys before looks like I need to order a K&N filter top air cleaner because I don’t have much clearance for a filter

Rick

[Avalanche325]

Avalanche

Thanks for the information I have watched these guys before looks like I need to order a K&N filter top air cleaner because I don’t have much clearance for a filter

Rick

You could go for the salad bowl. It did quite well on the dyno. You can tell everyone that your air cleaner is a "custom piece". :-)

[Itchief]

I would need to get the chrome or stainless bowl from kitchen connection so that it would match the rest of the motor

Maybe I could get on an episode of roadkill

Rick

[TexasAviator]

I am curious as to how much room there is to change spark plugs, get to header bolts, and get other things done on a big block or even a 351.

Since others have already gone there I have to add to the idea of a 302 based 347CI stroker! I have a 302 bored and stroked to 347 (I am at 475hp but a cam swap would get me to 500hp easily) and you can see I have a ton of room to maintain my car and am very happy to put the body on as I still will have plenty of room to get around the inside and outs of my car. I can also watch for leaks, get around the underside of the motor and am pretty excited about how well the 302 snuggles down into the chassis. I LOVE MY ENGINE and you will too with 440ft lbs of torque and as much power as you are willing to buy.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4800/26825139438_4eb677bff1_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/GSrRo7)20180303_190204 (https://flic.kr/p/GSrRo7) by Brandon Fertig (https://www.flickr.com/photos/158928436@N07/), on Flickr

[CobraboyDR]

Much over 350 HP is a waste of HP, period. Higher HP will get you at the gas pump. Higher HP engines require more octane which sells at higher prices. Lower HP engines that are not hopped up to ridicules amounts can [usually] be run on standard 87-89 octane levels (read: cheap gas) Higher HP engines won't get the MPG that a lower HP engine gets. Stock block 5.0 engines are capable of 25+ MPG with the right rear gears. Do a search for gas mileage of the high HP cars on either forum and you'll find answers around 8-10, some a bit higher. How many times do you want to stop for gas on that long cruise you have on your bucket list?? Fill every 100 or fill every 300 . . .

DocTurque is King. HP is nice, but without grunt the motor has to spin fast to make power.

I understand why folks go small block: good HP on a budget. But with a SBF you really have to get extreme to make a lot of torque: stroked/bored, high compression, rad valve trains, etc., all stressing the engine.

And, yes, front weight can be a factor. Somewhat. But springs can mitigate the difference. Besides, these cars didn't turn well in the first place. And a short wheelbase makes performance driving...interesting.

Folks shy from an FE because of cost and weight. But that should not be. 390FE packages, even stoked to 445, are not much more than a SBF all jazzed up. Readily available aluminun heads, intake and water pump can shave hundreds of pounds off an FE for not massive $$$, and you can run modest compression ratios with pump gas and make monster torque.

And one more thought: an FE just ~looks~ right in a 427s/c replica.

I've had both a strong SBF (351w, 420hp in a Contemporary) and FE (475hp 427 side-oiler in a SPF.) The SBF was fun fun fun! But it did not hold a candle to the visceral experience of sound and grunt of the FE. Take a spin in an FE and see the difference.

You can buy a 425hp 406FE with fake cross bolts for about the same price as a jazzed SBF.

But opinions vary, all blessings...

[Itchief]

With a bbf and hooker headers from FFR I had lots of room for access to the header bolts and spark plugs but I lost about a inch and a half in the pedal box

Rick

[CobraboyDR]

With a bbf and hooker headers from FFR I had lots of room for access to the header bolts and spark plugs but I lost about a inch and a half in the pedal box

RickPlease tell me more. An FE won't fit a FFR Mk.4 without footbox modifications? 1.5" is massive for my size 12's...

[mike223]

Here's a comparison drawing I picked up off a forum somewhere (years ago).

I can't speak to how accurate it is.


82324

[TexasAviator]

I created an inch of room with my 347 and I needed every bit of it with my 6-2 lean frame and 12 inch shoe.

[Itchief]

My mkiv kit came with two panels for the drivers footbox one for the 5.0 and one for the 4.6/bbf

The instructions may only refer to the 4.6 but trust me you will need the 4.6 panel for the bbf install that omission cost me about five hours work to pull the motor and change out the panel

Using the 4.6 liter panel will cost you about 1.5 inches on the right hand side of the footbox

You may be able to modify the panel to get some of the space back but the FFR panels worked for me

I have to use size ten driving shoes

Rick

[edwardb]

My mkiv kit came with two panels for the drivers footbox one for the 5.0 and one for the 4.6/bbf

The instructions may only refer to the 4.6 but trust me you will need the 4.6 panel for the bbf install that omission cost me about five hours work to pull the motor and change out the panel

Using the 4.6 liter panel will cost you about 1.5 inches on the right hand side of the footbox

You may be able to modify the panel to get some of the space back but the FFR panels worked for me

I have to use size ten driving shoes

Rick

I see your kit number is #8475. My Mk4 is #8674, and had the same sheet metal. I used some custom pieces from 2bking. But that's another story... Some months later Factory Five released a new version of the DS footbox that is used for all engine types. It restores the lost footbox space from the previous 4.6 (and Coyote) sheet metal. It's wide at the top in the engine compartment, but narrows back down at the bottom for added space inside. Plus even adds a little more on the outside of the foot box (the body side). I'm not saying it isn't tight in the engine compartment! It is. And even with everything maxed out, the footbox can be tight for taller drivers, big feet, etc. Just the way it is. But there's no longer a penalty for using the big engines in the Roadster.

[Itchief]

My bad but thank you for setting me straight

Things change and time moves on the changes make the car better all the time

Rick

[CobraboyDR]

I see your kit number is #8475. My Mk4 is #8674, and had the same sheet metal. I used some custom pieces from 2bking. But that's another story... Some months later Factory Five released a new version of the DS footbox that is used for all engine types. It restores the lost footbox space from the previous 4.6 (and Coyote) sheet metal. It's wide at the top in the engine compartment, but narrows back down at the bottom for added space inside. Plus even adds a little more on the outside of the foot box (the body side). I'm not saying it isn't tight in the engine compartment! It is. And even with everything maxed out, the footbox can be tight for taller drivers, big feet, etc. Just the way it is. But there's no longer a penalty for using the big engines in the Roadster.Thanks for that info!

[mike forte]

Hi Guys,
Somehow I missed this thread on engine packages. I've completely swapped to Dart SHP blocks for all 347, 363 & 427-W engine packages because of reliability issues of stock 302 blocks and the not significant price difference of the DART SHP block over stock blocks.
With varying HP levels tailored to customers needs and budgets we have a bunch of packages starting with DART SHP 347 at $12,705.00 as a turnkey package with new TKO transmission, alternator, starter, clutch kit, bellhousing etc.
If you have any interests please feel free to call me, or email me for a quote.
We are now selling a 306 package with a new T-5 for $9700.00 running.

[Scubasommer]

Hi Guys,
Somehow I missed this thread on engine packages. I've completely swapped to Dart SHP blocks for all 347, 363 & 427-W engine packages because of reliability issues of stock 302 blocks and the not significant price difference of the DART SHP block over stock blocks.
With varying HP levels tailored to customers needs and budgets we have a bunch of packages starting with DART SHP 347 at $12,705.00 as a turnkey package with new TKO transmission, alternator, starter, clutch kit, bellhousing etc.
If you have any interests please feel free to call me, or email me for a quote.
We are now selling a 306 package with a new T-5 for $9700.00 running.

Mike
Do you guys selling rotating assemblies....I have a 1969 351W block bored and prepped for 427?
Thanks
Jimmy

[Scubasommer]

With that said......here is my real advice. Within your financial constraints of course. Build the car, that if you drove it to a Cobra event and you could drive any car there back home, yours is the car you would choose! You are doing the right thing by thinking it through now. If a certain engine sings to you, and is going to fit what you want to do with the car, go for it.

WOW....that’s deep.....I see EXACTLY where your going!!
BRILLIANT!!!
Thanks
Jimmy

[Rick1916]

Avalanche325 said it so well. I love my 408 stroker with its Hilborn efi 8 stack so much I’m pulling it from my roadster and putting it into my new coupe build. I’ll sell the roadster as a roller. Clearly, the engine choice is the toughest decision apart from paint. You won’t make a bad decision.

[mike forte]

Hi Jimmy,
I do sell balanced rotating assemblies by Eagle or Scat. Give me a call and I'll get you a quote.


Mike
Do you guys selling rotating assemblies....I have a 1969 351W block bored and prepped for 427?
Thanks
Jimmy