Coyote / TKO 600 Mid Shifter ?

[lewma]

Guys

I'm planning on using a Coyote / TKO600 in my build but I'm debating whether the mid shifter is needed or not. What's the general consensus ? Is a mid shifter needed ?

thanks for any advice!

mark

[CalR80]

I guess it depends on what look you are going for. I have the mid shifter on my TKO and like how it feels and looks. Fortes makes a short angled shift lever that works well.

[edwardb]

Agree it depends on what you're looking for. Keep in mind the Coyote puts the shifter 1-2 inches ahead of where it ends up with other engine options. The pictures below are my Mk4/Coyote/TKO #8674 build with the ********** 427 shifter in the rear position. For me it's perfect. Sitting in the seat my hand drops exactly onto the shift knob. Below are two pictures of the installation.

First with the tunnel cover off so you can see where the shifter locations on the TKO end up. I used the furthest back location and am very happy with it. The rear location can be turned 180 degrees and move forward a couple inches. But would require the frame to be modified as can be seen. You can also see how far forward the mid-shift location would be in this installation.

Second pic is the completed interior. BTW, in this picture it's in 2nd or 4th (not sure) but that's how far it comes back. Obviously neutral and the other gears would be forward from there.

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%2020th%20Anniversary%20Mark%204%20R oadster/Update%2008172016/IMG_0501_zpsnyg5k0d1.jpg (http://s867.photobucket.com/user/edwardb123/media/Factory%20Five%2020th%20Anniversary%20Mark%204%20R oadster/Update%2008172016/IMG_0501_zpsnyg5k0d1.jpg.html)

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%2020th%20Anniversary%20Mark%204%20R oadster/Graduation/IMG_4519_zpsfb9sevuy.jpg (http://s867.photobucket.com/user/edwardb123/media/Factory%20Five%2020th%20Anniversary%20Mark%204%20R oadster/Graduation/IMG_4519_zpsfb9sevuy.jpg.html)

[lewma]

edwardb thanks for the pics and description. If I were to go with the mid-shifter, do you think I'd need to make modifications to the frame ?

[edwardb]

edwardb thanks for the pics and description. If I were to go with the mid-shifter, do you think I'd need to make modifications to the frame ?

I honestly don't know. I've never done a mid-shift. I can't add anything beyond what the picture shows. That frame piece across the mid-shift might clear. Or not. But compared to many of the tasks required for one of these builds, not a big deal if more clearance is necessary.

I would just recommend getting opinions about the mid-shift from Coyote builders. It's further forward than other engines as I mentioned. I know of at least one build where the builder did some work on a center console and was disappointed it seemed with how close the shifter turned out to be with the mid-shift.

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Don't think its needed. Have a Console with a NEX4200 head unit in it with no clearance issues in 1st,3rd or 5th even with the unit tilted out.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=14742&pictureid=66601

Also I like the look of the factory style shifter.

[lewma]

Don't think its needed. Have a Console with a NEX4200 head unit in it with no clearance issues in 1st,3rd or 5th even with the unit tilted out.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=14742&pictureid=66601

Also I like the look of the factory style shifter.

Nice console :)

I'm planning some sort of Android Auto additions but don't have any concrete plans yet...

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Thanks for the kind words. Just 3 pieces of ally, some thin foam & extra covering from a local fabric outlet that I used to cover the transmission cover. You can make the panels yourself from leftover sheet metal parts or buy a 'kit' from Whitby Motorcars. The Whitby piece will have to have the holes cut in it so its a toss-up as to how you do source it.

You can also get flat aluminium sheet in small pieces @ Home Depot.

[Straversi]

I used the mid shift on the TKO 600 with my Coyote and yes you do need to cut the diagonal brace across the top of the tunnel. I have long arms so it is more comfortable for me but it does put the shift ball about 4 1/2" from the dash in 1st gear. I ended up using a shift lever that lays back about an inch.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=73438&d=1504941533

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=73440&d=1504941557

-Steve

[lewma]

I used the mid shift on the TKO 600 with my Coyote and yes you do need to cut the diagonal brace across the top of the tunnel. I have long arms so it is more comfortable for me but it does put the shift ball about 4 1/2" from the dash in 1st gear. I ended up using a shift lever that lays back about an inch.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=73438&d=1504941533

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=73440&d=1504941557

-Steve

Steve

In 1st,3rd,5th, do you anticipate your knuckles being close to a center console, if one was installed ?

[Al_C]

Really, it's personal preference. I, too, elected to go with the mid-shift. It ends up being more work, but so what... (everything ends up being more work!) I, too, did the mod to the frame like Steve did above. Here's a down-looking view
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=78225&d=1514327810

The rear-shift position is the "classic" look. But I'm so far from "classic" at this point that it really doesn't matter. Do what you think feels right.

[lewma]

Thanks!

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Better picture. There about an 1" more space then I am showing with a wide tape roll. The unit tilts up at the base & the console is built out about 1/2"+ to accommodate the head unit which is pretty big.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=17193&pictureid=69906

Figure about 4" on a flush install. My stick is the 427 T-handle replica so the FFR stick might have more or less clearance.

[lewma]

Thanks for taking the time to post the picture of this. I'm leaning towards including the mid-shifter now.

[Straversi]

I'll post a photo with some measurements tomorrow. Sorry, only seems to work from my PC. Mine looks different than what Bear posted. Maybe it's just the camera angle.

- Steve

[timga]

Following this... I checked out the FFR car in the showroom that had a coyote/tko. I was told it was setup as a midshift and it felt comfortable. The shifter was straight and comfortable. They also claimed that no frame mods were necessary.... Hmmmm.... Oh decisions decisions...

[ckrueger]

I did modify the frame on mine. I didn't cut the piece out. I cut the ride side off where it met the top tube on the vertical side of the tunnel, cut an addtional 1/4" off and pulled it over and rewelded to the the top tube. Mine's all rivieted up so I can't get you a photo.

[Straversi]

Following this... I checked out the FFR car in the showroom that had a coyote/tko. I was told it was setup as a midshift and it felt comfortable. The shifter was straight and comfortable. They also claimed that no frame mods were necessary.... Hmmmm.... Oh decisions decisions...

I ordered my drivetrain from Mike Forte. I asked for the TKO-600 with mid-shift location and he supplied a PRO-5.0 shift kit to mount on top of the mid-shift position. Looks like AL_C has the same shift kit and you can see from his overhead shot that you definitely have to modify the diagonal tube for it to fit. Maybe FFR uses a different shifter that has a skinnier collar or is shorter? The PRO 5.0 is very stout. If FFR can tell you what shift kit they used with the mid-shift location, that didn't require modification, please post.

As for my set up, I ordered a Hurst shift lever with a 1" lay back. I also cut it down 1". The top of the ball is 7 1/4" to the tunnel cover. The front of the ball is 2 1/2" to the bottom edge of the dash in gears 1,3 & 5. With my hand on the ball, my knuckles are 1 1/4 from the edge of the dash. (It's in 3rd gear in the photo). If I had a straight shift lever it would be right on top of it.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=81348&d=1519144546

There is room if you want a console but lay out switches carefully or maybe set the console back a bit. Aesthetically, I think it would look less crowded with a console if you used the standard shift location, but just an opinion. My set up is comfortable for my ridiculously long arms.

Hope this helps.
-Steve

[BEAR-AvHistory]

I'll post a photo with some measurements tomorrow. Sorry, only seems to work from my PC. Mine looks different than what Bear posted. Maybe it's just the camera angle.

- Steve

The angle might be deceptive its a phone picture. Shifter is in 1st gear in the picture the knuckle to dash, not radio face is 4.25" as close as it gets to the radio is 3.75". If I were to get a mid shift the 67 Corvette Hurst replacement stick is short & straight.

Just remember the TKO is like the old Muncie rock crushers & likes a little bit of push on the shift. Leverage is good with the 427 & FFR shifters.

Best plan is to sit in the car & see where your hand naturally falls in relation to the dash & plan from that. I like my hand out in front palm on top of the ball for the 1/2 shift so with my seat position the classic stick was a no brainer.

The other thing to remember is the actual angle of the dash itself. Mine is fixed with the Everson undertray & is pretty vertical.


Found this picture:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=17193&pictureid=69920

[initiator]

I confirm that the Pro 5.0 mid-shifter on Coyote does require removing a portion of a cross brace. I'm still mocking up the cutout, but it doesn't look to me like the entire brace needs to be cut. I'm tempted to profile out the brace to clear, leaving the forward side intact, then bolt a stiffener (C or box section to the remaining thin wall. Similar to what others show above, but without cutting all the way through the brace.

[lewma]

Good feedback. I was looking at the pictures in this thread and wondering how I could cut a bolt hole through the cross member that close to the side. Seems like there's no room to get a drill in there ?

[Bill_VA]

I have a mid-shift kit. I wasn't trying to create a replica of an original Cobra, but a modern take on one.

http://www.ffmetal.com/BillsCar/photos/100_1462.jpg

BTW, Straversi, you should screw those limiting bolts all the way into the housing. The TKO transmissions have internal limiters, those are redundant and unnecessary.

[lewma]

Thanks Bill. Looking at your pic, even with the mid-shifter installed, where's still plenty of room forward of the stick.

mark

[Straversi]

I have a mid-shift kit. I wasn't trying to create a replica of an original Cobra, but a modern take on one.

http://www.ffmetal.com/BillsCar/photos/100_1462.jpg

BTW, Straversi, you should screw those limiting bolts all the way into the housing. The TKO transmissions have internal limiters, those are redundant and unnecessary.

Thanks, good to know.
The first roadster I sat in was Dave Hodgkins blue car with a SBF with a mid shift. I liked that set-up but ordered the Coyote with mid shift, not knowing it sat further forward. Comparing my photos with the ones above show the difference between how the Coyote and the 351 locate the same mid-shift. For those in the planning stages, it is good to remember that changing one item can change several other pieces.

Bear’s Coyote photo looks like the shifter is mounted in the tail section rather than where Al_C and I have ours mounted. Might be photo angle or we are using different terminology.

-Steve

[GSides9]

The thing I remembered most about the first Cobra that I got really close to was the shifter. So mine has the standard shift position and shifter. I think that a mid-shift would make it easier to make that 2-3 shift, with fewer missed gears. It is no problem when shifting at a reasonable rpm.

[lewma]

I ordered my drivetrain from Mike Forte. I asked for the TKO-600 with mid-shift location and he supplied a PRO-5.0 shift kit to mount on top of the mid-shift position. Looks like AL_C has the same shift kit and you can see from his overhead shot that you definitely have to modify the diagonal tube for it to fit. Maybe FFR uses a different shifter that has a skinnier collar or is shorter? The PRO 5.0 is very stout. If FFR can tell you what shift kit they used with the mid-shift location, that didn't require modification, please post.

As for my set up, I ordered a Hurst shift lever with a 1" lay back. I also cut it down 1". The top of the ball is 7 1/4" to the tunnel cover. The front of the ball is 2 1/2" to the bottom edge of the dash in gears 1,3 & 5. With my hand on the ball, my knuckles are 1 1/4 from the edge of the dash. (It's in 3rd gear in the photo). If I had a straight shift lever it would be right on top of it.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=81348&d=1519144546

There is room if you want a console but lay out switches carefully or maybe set the console back a bit. Aesthetically, I think it would look less crowded with a console if you used the standard shift location, but just an opinion. My set up is comfortable for my ridiculously long arms.

Hope this helps.
-Steve

Steve, thanks for the pic and explanation. Helps a whole lot!

[Al_C]

Good feedback. I was looking at the pictures in this thread and wondering how I could cut a bolt hole through the cross member that close to the side. Seems like there's no room to get a drill in there ?

Get a right angle attachment for a drill driver. Something like this:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=81292&d=1519090215

This thing has turned out to be worth its weight in gold.

[lewma]

Can the mid-shifter option be installed after the engine/transmission is installed ? Or, does it have to be done before hand ?

[edwardb]

Can the mid-shifter option be installed after the engine/transmission is installed ? Or, does it have to be done before hand ?

Before hand. Not while installed. Or at least not on purpose. The case has to be taken apart. These instructions should give you an idea. http://www.tremec.com/anexos/Mid-Shift%20Conversion%20Kit.pdf

[jrcuz]

I went the opposite direction going from mid-shift to tail shift on my tko 600 with my trans installed and it was not as bad as I had expected. So now I have a Pro 5.0 shift kit and Forte shift lever and rubber boot I'm not using. If you are interested feel free to PM me with an offer.
JR

[jrcuz]

Some pics815738157481575

[Fixit]

I totally get the structural reasoning for triangulating the braces on the top of the tunnel, but a change to 3 horizontal braces properly placed would allow the shifter to be mounted anywhere at will...