Jdavis500 Gen 3 Coupe Build Thread [Archive]

jdavis500

01-31-2018, 05:49 PM

I finally decided to start a post to share my build experience from a novice's perspective. Please, critique away. This is a huge learning experience for me. I recieved my kit on 10/12/17 from Stewart and I have been chipping away since then. I think that the hardest part for me so far has been organization and retrieval/identification of all the parts. I have been stacking and unstacking boxes for the past few months and in retrospect, I should have had a better plan. Too much time spent sifting thru boxes. It would be nice if the part list recieved with the kit were avaiable in PDF so that it could be easily searched. I called FFR and they said that was not possible to send it too me(clearly there was a PDF file that was printed so they could send it to me). The result is searching thru pages trying to find a part that was listed in the manual. It helped to post all the sheets on my garage wall and highlight the main contents so that I could find the parts a little easier. Initially, I had strict expectations on finishing the car within a certain timeframe. I think I will be happier if I just enjoy the build and not stress about a timeframe. I attended the build school on Spetember and had commented in a post previously. Those guys are extremely knowledgable and professional. They didn't make anyone feel stupid with questions and they seemed to really enjoy what they were doing. If you have the time and the cash, why not?

Plan:

Gen 3 Coupe
Coyote from Forte
TKO 600
Quicktime Bellhousing
IRS Rear End
Windshield wiper kit
Swaybars
17" Halibrand wheel/tire kit from FFR
12.88" Wilwoods
Power Steering
AC
Hydraulic Clutch
CNC Tripe Reservoir
Moroso Coolant Reservoir
Moroso Oil Pan
Gas-n Sidepipes

Everything order and already recieved except for the AC and side pipes. Forte is a good guy and very busy. Despite being so busy, you will hear all about his day when you call!!:) I have made some progress and I will gradually post pictures about past and future experience.
Thank you to those who have gone before me. The pictures on the Phoenix build are particularly good. I will try to add lots of pics as well.

edwardb

01-31-2018, 06:34 PM

Welcome aboard! Glad to see another Gen 3 Coupe build thread. I received mine in December and have been plugging away. I agree with you 100% that getting and keeping organized is critical. I put all the inventory sheets in a notebook and they will be pretty dog-eared by the end of the build. In FF's defense, pretty sure that document is an Excel spreadsheet. I saw them working on a kit pull when I was there picking up my Anniversary Roadster and it was in Excel. Not saying they couldn't send you the file or a PDF version. Stay organized and as you go along with the build the boxes will empty and it's not a big deal.

Interested in your list of parts. I too am doing a Coyote with A/C. I'm going to be interested to see if there's room for the CNC triple reservoir and also the Moroso coolant tank. I'm waiting to decide until I start mocking things up.

bil1024

01-31-2018, 07:03 PM

I always post a copy of the packing list on the outside of the box.

cnutting

01-31-2018, 07:08 PM

I always post a copy of the packing list on the outside of the box.

Same here. Copy of the box contents in sheet protectors taped to each box.

Dlirium

02-01-2018, 01:07 PM

Exciting stuff! My kit is suppose to be ready on 2/3 (yes, I'm giddy as a school girl). Hopefully have it delivered by Stewart in the next few weeks - looking forward to the inventory process and getting to know the car. I'm doing the A/C and Coyote (crossing fingers for Gen 3 availability later this year), so will be following your thread closely!

I see that you and many other folks are going with the hydraulic clutch. My buddy did a Roadster / Coyote build with a mechanical clutch that feels great. What are the advantages of going Hydraulic?

Also, whereabouts are you located?

jdavis500

02-01-2018, 10:04 PM

Thank you all for the input. Dlirium, my understanding is that a hydraulic clutch requires less pedal effort and no risk of cable breakage/maintenance. There are benefits to both, but I thought what the hell... I am in Atlanta. I am familiar with a few other coupes in the area, but no Gen 3 compadres. EdwardB, I have my fingers crossed with the reservoirs. They are a little big. I will take a look at placement this weekend. I would like to run footbox vents as well. I may be getting a little greedy. I have seen roadsters run ducts from the front air intake. It is a long trip thru a busy area. Russ Thompson's won't fit, but it seems like something similar could be fabricated at least for the drivers side. Passenger side is probably not an option with the AC.Ventilation would be appreciated during a Georgia summer.

edwardb

02-01-2018, 11:43 PM

I don't see how you're going to get fresh air ducts from the front of the car to the cockpit with the Coupe. You're going to find with the Coyote, A/C, etc. it's pretty packed. Plus with the tip up nose, it's all going to be visible. Not hidden like in a Roadster. If you want to get creative, use the scoops that are on each side in front of the windshield. That's how the originals got fresh air into the cockpit. I've seen a couple builds where guys figured out how to make them functional.

Regarding the hydraulic clutch, a properly installed and routed cable works fine. Hydraulic is maybe a little less pedal effort. I've had both. It's not a huge difference, but it's something. One of the biggest issues is just getting the cable routed so it stays away from heat sources. Heat kills clutch cables, and with the Coyote it's all pretty tight. It's an easy mid-course add if you start with a cable and decide to switch to hydraulic. FWIW, I'm going to try a hydraulic throw-out bearing on my Coupe build. In theory that should have even less effort than the hydraulic slave used with the clutch arm and throw-out bearing. Lots of debate about how suitable those are for these builds (and don't want to turn your thread into that debate) but I'm going to give it a shot.

jdavis500

02-05-2018, 09:15 PM

Could someone give me a little guidance on Rivnuts. I would like something black if it exists and I am currently thinking about the top panel above the footboxes.

jdavis500

02-09-2018, 03:02 PM

edwardb

02-09-2018, 03:16 PM

That's too bad about the bolt breaking on the Wilwood parts. That's been reported several times. At least once the builder unfortunately used the wrong torque settings (ft/lbs vs. in/lbs) so a little understandable. The rest I'm not sure about. I've done three sets of them now and felt like they all went together pretty normally. One suggestion, and I'm not sure it applies in your case or not, is to get all the bolts started and maybe halfway down before tightening any. The tolerances are pretty tight it seems. So if everything isn't exactly centered, could encounter some resistance and maybe enough to snap a bolt off. Anyway, glad Wilwood was willing to work with you on replacing it.

For your IRS installation, I don't see any issues with where you cut the knuckle. That's actually more than I've cut mine. It's not a problem at all. One hint about your assembly though. You're going to want to center up those adjusters. There should be equal threads showing on each side of the center adjuster. For both the camber and toe adjustments. As probably you've realized, to adjust alignment, the jam nut on each side is loosened, then the center adjustment turned. Each has left and right threads, so basically works like a turnbuckle with both sides going in or out. Then the jam nuts tightened back down. The way you have yours, you'll run out of threads on one side before the other. This isn't mentioned in the instructions BTW. Unfortunately, the only way to fix is to remove the large mounting bolts and turn the Heim joints. They should look like these pics. The exact mount of threads on each side will be determined when aligned. For now you just want the same on both sides:

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%2020th%20Anniversary%20Mark%204%20R oadster/Independent%20Rear%20Suspension/th_IMG_0152_zpsixzfry84.jpg (http://s867.photobucket.com/user/edwardb123/media/Factory%20Five%2020th%20Anniversary%20Mark%204%20R oadster/Independent%20Rear%20Suspension/IMG_0152_zpsixzfry84.jpg.html)

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%2020th%20Anniversary%20Mark%204%20R oadster/Independent%20Rear%20Suspension/th_IMG_0153_zpsshxrqbwz.jpg (http://s867.photobucket.com/user/edwardb123/media/Factory%20Five%2020th%20Anniversary%20Mark%204%20R oadster/Independent%20Rear%20Suspension/IMG_0153_zpsshxrqbwz.jpg.html)

jdavis500

02-09-2018, 03:20 PM

Next up was the accelerator pedal and the footbox. I spent quite a bit of time trying to decide which option I preferred. I called Russ Thompson about his aluminum pedal for the coupe. It had not been test fitted on the Gen 3 yet so I didn't go with that option. He was waiting for someon local to allow him to fit the pedal in the Gen 3. His concern was that the larger cockpit may impact pedal placement. I wanted to try to avoid the FFR accelerator fix. I am sure that it works fine, but mentally, I wanted a cleaner solution. I went with the Coyote pedal modification. I think it worked really well. I removed the pedal and flipped it upside down. After notching the back of the pedal it seemed to fit well, but the contact points between pedal and arm seemed inadequate. Repetitive pressure could cause a cycling problem with the plastic. I added a big wad of JB Weld to to the back of the pedal to provide more contact/support for when the pedal is pushed. Not sure how acceptable the use of JB Weld is in car building. It might be akin to using drywall screws to build a deck. The final placement looked pretty good. I had to drill a hole in the mount plate a few time to figure it out. I ended up not using th emount plate adapter from FFR. Not sure if that will come back to bite me. I couldn't figure out how to make it work with the Coyote accelerator pedal mod. The rest of the footbox seemed self explanatory and fun to assemble.

jdavis500

02-09-2018, 03:37 PM

Another headscratcher for me. So, I ordered the Coyote from Mike Forte along with the transmission, fuel system... The in-tank Walbro 190lph pump fit nicely in the tank, but I was having trouble attaching the fuel strainer. It has a locking washer on it and for the life of me, I couldn't attach the strainer onto the pickup. In retrospect, I feel stupid about all these headscratchers, but in real-time, I didn't want to snap another bolt off in the rotor hat if you know what I mean. I finally got the idea to put the stariner on the bench top and push the pick-up down onto it using my body weight. Still tough, but it went on. My next issue was fuel lines. Forte sent semi-rigid nylon lines for me to cut and attach the couplers/adapters. I wanted to use these over the rubber and rigid tubing that FFR supplied. What do I know? I spent a huge amount of time failing at inserting the nylon connectors into the nylon fuel lines. Everytime I attached the connector to the heated nylon line, it buckled. I could get the first barb in, but that was it. I tried noiling as well as a heat gun. I researched and found that there was a tool that could help, but it seemed expensive. I called Mike and he said he could send premeasured, premade nylon lines. I said ok. It is fine from tank to filter/regulator as well as the return. It is the long line from regulator/filter to engine that I am not sure about. Not sure I will like how it looks, bends, fits in the engine compartment. I will cross that bridge at a later date. I am sure there are many other worth options.

jdavis500

02-09-2018, 03:45 PM

That's too bad about the bolt breaking on the Wilwood parts. That's been reported several times. At least once the builder unfortunately used the wrong torque settings (ft/lbs vs. in/lbs) so a little understandable. The rest I'm not sure about. I've done three sets of them now and felt like they all went together pretty normally. One suggestion, and I'm not sure it applies in your case or not, is to get all the bolts started and maybe halfway down before tightening any. The tolerances are pretty tight it seems. So if everything isn't exactly centered, could encounter some resistance and maybe enough to snap a bolt off. Anyway, glad Wilwood was willing to work with you on replacing it.

For your IRS installation, I don't see any issues with where you cut the knuckle. That's actually more than I've cut mine. It's not a problem at all. One hint about your assembly though. You're going to want to center up those adjusters. There should be equal threads showing on each side of the center adjuster. For both the camber and toe adjustments. As probably you've realized, to adjust alignment, the jam nut on each side is loosened, then the center adjustment turned. Each as left and right threads, so basically works like a turnbuckle with both sides going in or out. Then the jam nuts tightened back down. The way you have yours, you'll run out of threads on one side before the other. This isn't mentioned in the instructions BTW. Unfortunately, the only way to fix is to remove the large mounting bolts and turn the Heim joints. They should look like these pics. The exact mount of threads on each side will be determined when aligned. For now you just want the same on both sides:

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%2020th%20Anniversary%20Mark%204%20R oadster/Independent%20Rear%20Suspension/th_IMG_0152_zpsixzfry84.jpg (http://s867.photobucket.com/user/edwardb123/media/Factory%20Five%2020th%20Anniversary%20Mark%204%20R oadster/Independent%20Rear%20Suspension/IMG_0152_zpsixzfry84.jpg.html)

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%2020th%20Anniversary%20Mark%204%20R oadster/Independent%20Rear%20Suspension/th_IMG_0153_zpsshxrqbwz.jpg (http://s867.photobucket.com/user/edwardb123/media/Factory%20Five%2020th%20Anniversary%20Mark%204%20R oadster/Independent%20Rear%20Suspension/IMG_0153_zpsshxrqbwz.jpg.html)

Awesome. Thanks Paul. Allignment is not a sexy part of the build for me, so I have been procrastinating to even get it in the ballpark of alligned. Thanks for the catch. I will get that straightened out. I better post more pics of things so any mistakes can be spotted

Dave Howard

02-10-2018, 07:21 AM

80629806308063180632

Attached are some progress pictures from the begininning. My first snag was when I snapped a bolt in the Wilwood rotor hat. I was very careful to make sure that the bolts were seated well and went slow. All the bolts seemed to turn with more resistance than I expected, so when this one was not moving well, I gave it more force. Fortunately the bolt sits in the rotor hat and not the rotor. I called Wilwood and they sent me a new one at half price. Lesson learned. These brakes are huge and look mean. I love them with the wheels. The rear wheel spindles were not too difficult thanks to the instructions. I think if I did it again, I would trim more of the knuckles off, grind then smooth and paint with POR15. It wasn't until a little later in the build that I picked-up on that little trick. I eventually got some and painted the differential with it. I got semigloss and in the future I will buy gloss. I also had trouble with the lid adhering to the can despite my cleaning up well after use. Think I need to use laquer thinner on a rag to clean the lid and can.

The Wilwood brakes are pretty straight forward. The instructions are good. I wouldn't get crazy about overengineering the install of the hat and bolts. Follow the instructions and make sure the torque setting is proper on your wrench . As for tightening part way , then a little more, then ...... WOW. A dab of Loctite is all you need to secure the bolts also (as per the tech support advice from Wilwood). KISS. For everyday driving, the safety wires is over the top overkill. Looks cool. But then, no one will ever see it.

edwardb

02-10-2018, 09:44 AM

As for tightening part way, then a little more, then ...... WOW.

Agreed Wilwood's instructions are excellent. Among the best I've seen. But for this step, the total instructions are: "Orient the rotor (5) and the hat (6) as shown in Figure 1 and Photo 2. Attach rotor to hat using bolts (8) and washers (7). Using an alternating sequence, apply red Loctite® 271 to the threads and torque bolts to 155 in-lb." Several ways you could interpret that. No re-engineering going on here. Just an assembly tip. Getting them all started first before tightening to the final torque setting is a simple way to make sure they all (1) actually start and (2) don't drag to the point of possibly breaking. I've done it multiple times and talked to other builders. It helps. Can't imagine why you think that's a bad idea. :confused:

As for safety wires, you're right. Not required for street use and strictly optional if that's what you're doing. But some of us enjoy details like that. Whether seen or not.

jdavis500

02-15-2018, 04:49 PM

David Hodgkins

02-15-2018, 04:59 PM

OK, so I am trying to figure out what I want to do with the hatch aluminum. I plan on creating an irregular trapezoid. The picture shows the hatch metal flipped over so everything is reversed. I think the door should clear fiberglass as it hinges up to open. I plan on getting a .040 18" piano hinge for the cabin side of the trapezoid. I have no experience here. If anyone has pointers on design, I am all ears.

80979

I know it's not apples-to-apples but here's a piano-hinged cover for my roadster trunk dropped-box:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=57742&d=1471886252

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=57741&d=1471886251

It might give you an idea how to proceed?

:)

mtwarog

02-15-2018, 08:44 PM

Here's what I did on my Gen 2 coupe:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71499&d=1501463035

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=73495&d=1505045457

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=73499&d=1505045461
I bought some aluminum piano hinge (Aluminum 5052-H32 Continuous Hinge without holes, Unfinished, 0.04" Leaf Thickness, 1-1/2" Open Width, 5/64" Pin Diameter, 1/2" Knuckle Length, 6' Long) that I'll use for the hinges. You can see them in the above picture.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=75000&d=1507460152

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=75001&d=1507460153

More info here:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?25341-Matt-s-Gen2-65-Coupe-Build-Thread&p=288810&viewfull=1#post288810

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?25341-Matt-s-Gen2-65-Coupe-Build-Thread&p=293713&viewfull=1#post293713

Thanks.
-Matt

Dlirium

02-16-2018, 11:58 AM

I know it's not apples-to-apples but here's a piano-hinged cover for my roadster trunk dropped-box:

It might give you an idea how to proceed?

:)

You should have warned us to put on sunglasses before looking! :cool:

jdavis500

02-18-2018, 11:00 AM

Thank you for the ideas. I have a better idea of how to design things.

jdavis500

02-18-2018, 04:39 PM

edwardb

02-18-2018, 05:48 PM

I received wheel spacers that I ordered for $60 on Amazon today. They are Orion Motor Tech at 1.25" and fit well. I will have to trim 1/4" off the existing lugs for the wheel to sit properly on the spacer. I primed them and then when I was looking at them on the wheel, I got the feeling that they are not very substantial. Edwardb's Eibach seem to have more meat. So I am having spacer envy, thinking about the forces on the metal. Any thoughts?
8120881209

Wheel Spacer Envy. Too funny. ;) Those look substantial enough. Unfortunately they're not hubcentric. The inside diameter should be a very close fit onto the flange of the Ford hub, and there should be a similar flange on the outside of the spacers that engages the center diameter in the wheel when it's installed. That keeps everything exactly aligned. You can see both of those features on the pictures I posted in my build thread. That design is solely dependent on the lug nut studs for alignment, which isn't considered as accurate or repeatable. I looked at the listing for those on Amazon. They're not described as hubcentric. Good thing, because they're not. The Eibach's that I used are hubcentric and seem to fit very precisely. But there are lots of others that are as well. Personally, I wouldn't be too comfortable with those.

jdavis500

02-19-2018, 10:11 AM

Got it. I've always wanted Non-Hubcentric Wheel Spacer paper weights. Ordering new spacers now.

edwardb

02-19-2018, 02:10 PM

Got it. I've always wanted Non-Hubcentric Wheel Spacer paper weights. Ordering new spacers now.

Sorry. :( I think you're making the right decision. Just not something to take a chance with. The kind of unwritten rule between my wife and I is that the price of admission for mistakes starts at $100 and goes up from there. I've proven this rule more times than I want to admit. You beat it on this one and got some nice paper weights.

jdavis500

02-21-2018, 12:10 PM

Here are some pics of how I installed my brake lines. I see that there is some latitude on placement. The problem for a novice is trying to predict what else will be installed down the road. I guess this is the name of the game for many parts. I really liked the way the brakelines looked, but later when working on aluminum, I found that the engine bay side panels would run into some interference on the front end. Because of my placement of the brackets for the front brake flew lines, I will have to trim the aluminum side panels. The manual recommends the brackets be placed on the front part of the frame. I think it won't be a big problem. It just won't look as clean. Also shown are the parking brake cables. Do they just rest on the differential?

81398813998140081401814028140381404

Dlirium

02-21-2018, 01:09 PM

jdavis500

02-21-2018, 08:26 PM

Looks great, thanks for sharing these, as that will be my next project! I don't see clearly how you routed the line from front to back. I *think* it's suppose to be in picture 8, but for the life of me I don't see a brake line in there!

Attached are pics of the brake line thru the tunnel.

jdavis500

02-21-2018, 08:32 PM

Trimmed the lugs 1/4' and installed the new HUB CENTRIC 1.25" Spacers. from Amazon for $45.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01BEI808K/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

As a side note, I looked up the last spacers that I bought on Amazon. The description does not specify hubcenteric, but the picture shows a hubcentric spacer. Since I painted them without thinking, I am sure I have no recourse. Moving on...

nkw8181

02-21-2018, 11:37 PM

I used 10-32 rivetnuts on top of the foot wells with socket head cap screws. There are bl assck screws. The color of the rivetnuts are not seen

nkw8181

02-21-2018, 11:43 PM

I knew there was something else I wanted to comment on. On your acceleration pedal check for clearance from the steering column to the wiring plug. That is what limits how low I can place mine. While you are at it check with the panel you still haven't installed. Also thanks for the shout out. I'm just trying to do my part to help.

Dlirium

02-22-2018, 09:12 AM

Attached are pics of the brake line thru the tunnel.

Thanks, very helpful!

efhughes3

02-22-2018, 07:35 PM

I'm curious as to your budget for the build. If this is not a proper question to ask, I understand. Thanks,

Dlirium

02-22-2018, 07:47 PM

I'm curious as to your budget for the build. If this is not a proper question to ask, I understand. Thanks,

the budget he tells the wife, or the real one? :-)

jdavis500

02-22-2018, 08:42 PM

Thank you for your advice Nolan. I have fitted the steering column, so I am pretty sure I am OK there. EF, I don't mind budget questions. I don't have a number in mind personally. The budget is what it takes for me to be satisfied. So far, I have spent

Complete kit with Wilwoods, IRS, wheels and tires and options: $34k
Forte Coyote with TKO 600, QT Bellhousing, hydraulic clutch and other options: $15-16k
Anticipate $8-10K for paint and body
Maybe another $2-3k for parts, powdercoating
I guess that puts me over $60k for a great learning experience and a totally unique car. I am good with that. It can definitely be done for less.

UpNorth

02-26-2018, 02:26 PM

Clover

02-27-2018, 06:09 PM

UpNorth, I am right there with you as a long time pencil pusher(accountant) looking to build my first car. I think I may be buying a Gen 3 kit tomorrow and I am trying to get all the details together now. I did go to Build School for the 33 hot rod a little while back and would recommend the build school without hesitation even though it is not the car you will be building. Obviously, I can't tell you how much the two kits have in common, however, I can say that the build school gave me a lot of confidence that I can do this. That confidence is a big deal to me and just seeing everything right there in person was also valuable.

I do my own maintenance and have modified cars with bolt ons before, however, I have never done anything too complex or to this scale before. I had a lot of doubts in my mind that I would get stuck on the wiring, or bending fuel and brake lines, or something else that I am completely ignorant of. I was also worried that I did not know how certain things were intended to look or how to know if I got X seated right or whatever. The build school gave me the chance to really look at everything in person and gain an understanding of it. You will probably find, once you have it right in front of you, it is not nearly the mystery you had made it out to be in your mind. An example of this for me was the drive shaft. I had never worked on a drive shaft before and had it built up in my mind as a big deal. When I put it in at the build school, it was obvious what to do and was very simple. The wiring was another thing that seemed like pure magic to me going into the build school. To be honest, there is a lot of wiring and it is intimidating when you see it all. You do need to change the connectors on the harness to make things fit together. The build school starts you off with wiring harness that already have the correct connectors, so you get to skip that part in the build school. However, with those connectors already taken care of, it took us under an hour to wire everything. Over that hour my confidence went from down in the gutter up to Rocky Mountain high, and I think you all know just how high the Rocky Mountains in Colorado have been the past few years.

I would focus on seeing how everything fits together and how they should look. How you connect a drive shaft is going to be pretty much the same between different models, so just get a good feel for how everything is intended to look when done right so you can have confidence you did it right on your own build. You will also learn cool little tips and tricks like extending the grease channels in the suspension bushings so they are squeak free and function better. If you watched the episode that had two teams building 33 hot rods against each other, the team that won did this and the judge commented on how it just functioned better. I would also plan what you want to build before the build school so you can ask specific questions about it. I think I saved money because I was able to learn that I don't really need this or that. I also saved time by learning a trick hear and there and being told about some common pitfalls.

Another thing to consider while you are out in Michigan for the build school is a Roush factory tour. The day after the build school was over, a few of us when on a private tour of Roush which was super cool. I felt like Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. If you have time, I would recommend reaching out to Roush and setting it up.

Good luck and have fun.

jdavis500

02-28-2018, 06:09 PM

Hi all,
This is my first post here so please be indulgent.
I am toying with the idea of building a 65 coupe.
But being a pencil pusher for my entire life I am just wondering if I am not about to play way over my head...?
So I am going to the build school in May. Hopefully to learn that I can do it.
So my question here is: jdavis500 can you elaborate a little more than your september post on your experience at the school vs building a coupe since there is no specific course for the coupe? Can you tell me what I should focus on more? I will be attending the MK4 course.
Thanks in advance.

The guys who run the classes are very knowledgable about the roadster and the coupe. They do a good job of pointing out differences between the two when appropriate. I think one of the main benefits as Clover points out is that the class demystifies many processes. I took lots of notes and pictures that bring me back to the class and help me remember how things were done. I think I could still have tackled the build without the class, but maybe with less confidence. It is true that the coupe has a different body, metal work, and so on, but they follow all the same principles. You will have every opportunity for questions. I think the guys(and others in the course) would be a good resource to help you refine your build plan while you are there. Basically, I don't feel that the experience was lacking with respect to the coupe build versus the roadster build and a lot more stuff is making its way into the forums regarding Gen 3 Coupe builds. Hope that helps.

UpNorth

03-01-2018, 04:10 PM

Clover and jdavis500, thanks for the information.
I really look forward to the build school. Confidence is what i am seeking to get in the first place by attending as Clover mentionned.
And I will try to figure out a build plan before taking the plane.
Thanks again guys!

jdavis500

04-16-2018, 02:36 PM

I had a great time learning how to use a break and creating my hatch storage. It isn't perfect, but I thought it looked pretty good. It took some concentration to build the box in the space above the fuel tank. Then I saw how crisp EdwardB's box was. It took me a while to figure out that he planned to install it by dropping the fuel tank. This means it was built accurately and trimmed accurately. I had a bunch of guessing involved with my creation. Some things come with experience.

jdavis500

04-16-2018, 07:55 PM

edwardb

04-16-2018, 10:09 PM

Can someone tell me I am not crazy here? I haven't been able to find anything on the forum about this. The IRS differential is offset from the midline of the car and is not aligned with the transmission which is on the midline.

No, you're not crazy. This is talked about occasionally for all models. FF has the drivelines off-center 1 to 1-1/2 inches (in that range) toward the right side on all, including the the Gen 3 Coupe. It's actually pretty typical in DD's as well. Starting with the engine, if you look at the motor mounts, you can see the left is larger than the right, pushing the motor over that direction. I'm surprised to see your TKO lining up on the center of the chassis at the tailshaft. My T-56 is about an inch to the right. Roughly matches with the offset of the IRS differential as you pointed out. Maybe check the orientation of your transmission mount plate? Maybe it doesn't hurt anything. But the offset is all by design.

jdavis500

04-17-2018, 01:57 PM

Thank you for the confirmation. I recalled that the shifter on the TKO 600 has to be rotated so the shifter is further forward. This will allow me some space to get the transmission a little more in line with the differential. After removing the bolts on the shifter plate, I wasn't sure how to remove the plate. Mike Forte told me to give it just a little knock to break the silicone seal and voila, now I can flip it. I haven't mastered searching in the forums. I can't seem to figure out how to search a phrase like "transmission mount". Inestead, I get all entries that contain those words individually, but not as a phrase. Speaeking of transmissionmount for the TKO 600 and the Coyote, the FFR tech advised me to place the orient the "U" shaped mounting plate with the arms of the "U" forward". The shock mount and matching hardened plate are bolted directly to the trans and then the shock mount to the "U" plate. He said not to use the mount extender with the slots in it for this transmission. I haven't gotten a chance to put these all together yet. Assuming it fits, I will post some pictures.

84284

jdavis500

04-18-2018, 08:22 AM

The shifter is rotated and the transmission mounted. The advice from FFR didn't seem to work. The "U" shaped transmission mounting plate worked in the opposite position with the arms of the "U" facing the rear. I used the shock mount with the matching hardened steel plate only(didn't use the mount extender). The shock absorbing mount bolted directly to the transmission and the transmission mounting plate. The trans is now offset to the right and more inline with the differential. It's off by maybe 1/2".

***Update***

I later noticed that the oil pan is sitting below the frame and at a slight angle with the rear end of the pan lower than the front. In addition, the QT bellhousing flange is significantly exposed below the frame. It looks like I need to fab some spacers. I will plan on placing about 3/4" worth of spacer on the top of the trans shock mount as described elsewhere. In addition, I will grind down the exposed flange.

edwardb

04-18-2018, 09:07 AM

That looks perfect. Whatever minor difference you have between the transmission and diff is easily handled by the U-joints on the driveshaft. In fact, it's desirable to have them slightly offset. Not exactly on zero. That extra plate you're talking about is for the Roadster. It's definitely required there for the Coyote since it's a bit shorter than other engine options. But clearly the Coupe doesn't need it. The transmission mount is a completely different design. Add it to your "not used" box.

jdavis500

04-22-2018, 11:35 AM

edwardb

04-22-2018, 12:07 PM

I later noticed that the oil pan is sitting below the frame and at a slight angle with the rear end of the pan lower than the front. In addition, the QT bellhousing flange is significantly exposed below the frame. It looks like I need to fab some spacers. I will plan on placing about 3/4" worth of spacer on the top of the trans shock mount as described elsewhere. In addition, I will grind down the exposed flange.

Did you get the FF Coyote installation kit? It contains 1/2-inch spacers that are installed inside the Energy Suspension motor mounts, which I assume you're using. With the spacers installed, the pan will be at or slightly above the frame. Slightly lower in the back is normal. I too found the QuickTime bell needs to be trimmed. But I'd recommend getting the engine spacers installed first, which will reduce the amount you need to trim.

mtwarog

04-23-2018, 04:57 AM

I can't seem to figure out how to search a phrase like "transmission mount". Inestead, I get all entries that contain those words individually, but not as a phrase.

Hi,

Here's a trick for searching. Use google and put this into the search bar:
"transmission mount" site:thefactoryfiveforum.com

By putting the search in quotes, you will get those words in order. The site:thefactoryfiveforum.com will search the site.

Your building coming along nice. Thanks for posting your progress.

Thanks.
-Matt

jdavis500

04-23-2018, 08:50 AM

Thank you Matt. I have used that technique elsewhere, but hadn't thought of using it for this site. EdwardB, I have the mount spacers in place. The front of the pan is above the bottom of the rails and the rear of the pan is below the rails by abot 3/16" and the flange even more(too much bell exposed to trim). By placing the spacers at the transmission mount, the rear pan is above the rail and the flange is trimmable.

edwardb

04-23-2018, 09:29 AM

EdwardB, I have the mount spacers in place. The front of the pan is above the bottom of the rails and the rear of the pan is below the rails by about 3/16" and the flange even more(too much bell exposed to trim). By placing the spacers at the transmission mount, the rear pan is above the rail and the flange is trimmable.

Looks like that's the way to go. Sounds good. You apparently have the QuickTime RM-6081 SFI bell housing? We've found on the Roadster builds as well that the bottom circle on that particular bell housing extends below the chassis tubes. A little late, but for reference the non-SFI RM-6080 doesn't have that bottom circle.

jdavis500

04-27-2018, 03:49 PM

edwardb

04-27-2018, 04:01 PM

The drain valve on the bottom right side of the radiator makes for a tight squeeze when the radiator is fitted within the radiator tunnel. FFR recommended a 1/4" hex plug in place of the valve. Fixed the problem. The left lower radiator bracket makes it tough to get good clearance for the radiator supply to the engine. I bent and twisted the rear end of the bracket to allow a little more clearance. I also notched the aluminum panel to give better clearance for the lower tube. There is a tight fit between the left LCA bracket and the swaybar in this area, but now the "cool tubes" lower and upper tubes fit fairly well. It was necessary to put some wedge cuts and some relief cuts in the fuel line used to cushion the radiator where it contacts the lower brackets. Making a little progress here.

Good to hear you were able to get the Boig cool tubes to fit that lower hose connection. I bought them too but haven't tried to install yet. I too bent the LH bracket and moved the radiator to the left as far as possible. That seems to give more clearance. Also cut the fuel line cushion to make it fit better. We seem to be on similar paths... I see you have AC listed in your build plan. For that bottom RH side, you're going to find the lower hose connection for the condenser is going to be obstructed in the same place as that valve. Also, based on the mock-up I've done, the nose hinges hit the bottom of that same tunnel piece on both sides. I haven't yet, but I'm planning to just cut the bottom of the aluminum tunnel sides panel off even with the 3/4-inch tube. I don't think that will hurt anything and clears away the obstructions.

jdavis500

04-29-2018, 04:51 PM

Good to hear you were able to get the Boig cool tubes to fit that lower hose connection. I bought them too but haven't tried to install yet. I too bent the LH bracket and moved the radiator to the left as far as possible. That seems to give more clearance. Also cut the fuel line cushion to make it fit better. We seem to be on similar paths... I see you have AC listed in your build plan. For that bottom RH side, you're going to find the lower hose connection for the condenser is going to be obstructed in the same place as that valve. Also, based on the mock-up I've done, the nose hinges hit the bottom of that same tunnel piece on both sides. I haven't yet, but I'm planning to just cut the bottom of the aluminum tunnel sides panel off even with the 3/4-inch tube. I don't think that will hurt anything and clears away the obstructions.

Thanks EdwardB. To be honest, I am a little intimidated by the AC installation for some reason. I guess it is time to order it and dive in.

edwardb

04-29-2018, 05:13 PM

Thanks EdwardB. To be honest, I am a little intimidated by the AC installation for some reason. I guess it is time to order it and dive in.

Yea, I hear you. I've never done anything like it either. Fortunately, the instructions are very detailed and the supplied kit seems well thought out. I'm making a couple of minor changes with the vents and integrating the controls into a custom switch panel rather than the standalone they provide. But other than that, plan to install it exactly as shown. Like you said, just dive in.

jdavis500

04-30-2018, 08:47 AM

Just wondering if I need to adjust the position of the coolant fill. Does it need to be above the reservoir? Can I drop the reservoir lower(and further forward) to gain more room?

edwardb

04-30-2018, 09:01 AM

Just wondering if I need to adjust the position of the coollant fill. Does it need to be above the reservoir? Can I drop the reservoir lower(and further forward) to gain more room?

That's clearly the Moroso Mustang/Coyote radiator expansion tank. Same as I used (and others) on Roadster #8674 and plan to use on my Coupe as well. If you plumb the tank using the Ford connections, as opposed to how FF shows in the Coyote installation instructions with conventional overflow tank, you don't need the T-filler in the upper radiator hose. Everything is done through the cap on the expansion tank. Works great BTW.

jdavis500

05-05-2018, 10:13 AM

Fitting some engine bay componenets. Not sure if this Moroso tank is going to be a good choice. This is all new to me, but there doesn't seem to be much space for this shape. The position shown doesn't look great and will require some tight turns on hoses. A mre vertical tank might be a better option. I wonder if there are other air intake options.

8543885439

forcefed1

05-15-2018, 10:42 AM

I struggled with the center line too.
Here's what I suggest.

Let your exhaust headers determine it.
the tranny and the rear end can be off the center line all day and you'll never care. When I bolted up my exhaust and headers everyone could see it.
I ended up slotting the holes for the tyranny and letting it float until I centered the side pipes. Then I bolted the tranny there.
I ended up about 3/4 " off center with the tail of the tranny. now teh side pipes and headers are right with the chassis.

TheBabyBadger

05-15-2018, 01:20 PM

Great build so far! I'm waiting for an email confirming my kit shipped! So I'm STOKED right now. The coolant resevoir has been a google search item for me for weeks now. Is that Moroso MPN# 63783?

That's the one I planned to use. Can it be mounted on the radiator side of the two openings or will it obstruct the hood? You could also go rear fire wall...?

The tank should be just slightly above the coolant fill and I'll piggy back EdwardB, plum just like the OE system. AIR always finds the highest point to pocket, so it's best if it's just slightly above, it will also make burping and topping off the system much easier.

My plan was to 90 the intake off the engine and stuff it in the LF corner of the engine bay. Again... I'm planning these things without the car here yet. Did I mention I'm excited? LOL... Good luck. I'm subscribed!

jdavis500

05-21-2018, 02:05 PM

jdavis500

05-21-2018, 02:17 PM

Thank you EdwardB for the education regarding an adjustable circle cutter to cut holes for the guages. I bought the one you recommended and it works like a charm. I finally settled on a spot to mount the coolant reservoir and I like how it fits. It could be a little higher, but it is a tricky mount. Splurged on a nice right angle drill attachment and life has been much easier.

https://www.amazon.com/Milwaukee-49-22-8510-Right-Angle-Attachment/dp/B000BYEJ02/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1526929921&sr=8-1&keywords=milwaukee+angle+drill+adapter

The $9 option is for the birds. I recieved the AC kit last week and will start to make sense of that this week.

jdavis500

05-21-2018, 02:21 PM

BabyBadger,

Congrats on the order. You will be surprised how quickly the engine bay fills up once a coyote is put in. I think the current position is the only opiton for this coolant reservoir with this engine in this car. It would be nice if it were more vertical and less horizontal.

Dlirium

05-21-2018, 02:23 PM

Great stuff! Have you run any of your electrical yet? Specifically thinking of how to get the front harness routed...any electrical picts would be appreciated!!!

jdavis500

05-22-2018, 07:58 AM

The CNC Triple Reservoir fits snugly on the DS frame triangle. My rivnuts are a little off so it is slightly uncentered in the space, but works great. I made a backer plate to cover the rear of the reservoir mount and to improve the mount strength. There will be a few rivets mounting the mounting plate to the frame that are not seen. I plan on sending the reservoir out to powdercoat. You can see by the tape on the engine bay frame rail tat the Coyote is a very tight fit requirin some twistis and turns to get it in.

Dlirium, I haven't started electrical yet. I think I will mount the ECM going thru the center of the firewall with the rear extending toward the cabin. This is new to me, so any input is welcome.

edwardb

05-22-2018, 09:51 AM

I think I will mount the ECM going thru the center of the firewall with the rear extending toward the cabin. This is new to me, so any input is welcome.

Since you already have the Gen 2 Coyote, I assume you know the harness connections for the engine to the computer are at the front RH side of the engine and integrated into the rest of the engine wiring so not readily moved. I've seen where guys have installed the computer in the firewall as you're describing, but that's mainly with the Gen 1 Coyote. Mike shows mounting the Gen 2 computer in the firewall, so obviously it's possible. But some level of unlacing and/or modifications to the harness will be necessary to get it there. It's going to depend on how comfortable you are doing that, plus how it relates to the bigger picture of where everything else fits, the cables route, etc. My main thought would be to lay out the entire installation, including the the RF harness and the heat/AC, before deciding anything.

For my Gen 2 Coyote Roadster build, I ended up leaving the computer near the RH side where the engine cables reached without modification, and FF now provides a mounting bracket for that. One came with the Coyote installation kit I ordered for the Coupe, but it's the same one and haven't decided yet if it works for the Coupe or if that's the best location. I don't have my engine yet, so can't offer much more input.

jdavis500

05-22-2018, 07:29 PM

I decided to pull out the harness and try to work on ECM placement. With the ECM mounting bracket kit that came with the kit retired, I attached the engine harness first. Not many options there. Top of PS footwell or front. Not great options especially with AC. I suppose it could be mounted somewhere vertically between the frame rails to to the side of the engine bay. That is less than ideal. I began to unravel parts of the harness and looks like I can comfortably mount the ECM in the firewall. I don't have enough experience to know if I can spare the space in this area for the ECM. I guess that will answer itself eventually. With the firewall in place, I am a little surprised with the pitch of the dash top. I lost all my pics prior to removing all the aluminum. Does this look right. It feels awkward. Seems like it should be flat.

edwardb

05-22-2018, 08:24 PM

jdavis500

05-22-2018, 09:06 PM

Good stuff. Interested to see what you do. Curious why you consider hanging from the frame rail less than ideal? Maybe concerned with engine or header heat? That's actually similar to where they're commonly mounted in the Roadster. Actually a little further from the header on that side, and it hasn't been a problem. Those PCM's are designed to work in the under hood environment. That's where they mounted in the Mustang.

The top of the dash has about a 10 degree slope up toward the front. Yours looks OK.

Yes, definitely concerned about heat, but I hear you on that. Visually, the PCM seems to be out there when the hood is up. The space is more on display in the coupe than the roadster. Add the harness... maybe i shoukd broaden my horizons.

Bob Brandle

06-24-2018, 06:21 PM

Great dialog, troubleshooting and solutions here guys. Thanks jdavis500, Edwardb, forcefed1 and all. Just placed my order for the Type 65 Coupe a week ago and soaking in all of the knowledge and developing my plans.

jdavis500

07-06-2018, 04:47 PM

After a lot of thought, I committed to the location of my PCM. Options were:

1. Somewhere in the engine bay on the passenger side. The AC drier and the side engine bay panel made that difficult.
2. Thru the firewall right of midline(like Mike Everson). This is a reasonable spot. I was concerned that AC duct work would quickly make space an issue behind the dash, especially since I am going with 4 AC vents(2 in center and 2 outside) and 2 defrost vents. It may be possible to squeeze these in among the wiring and the PCM, but I am skeptical.
3. At the top of the transmission tunnel. The downside is that the back of the PCM needs to go thru the top/forward transmission tunnel aluminum panel. The back of the PCM may also interfere with switches in the dash.

I went with option 3. It is not the purest design, but it will look good from the outside and it will give me more room for ductwork and wiring. To do this, I had to make a cut-out in the transmission tunnel aluminum. I also needed to tilt the PCM slightly down toward the rear to avoid the ignition switch. I will fab a lower aluminum dash(below the dash and over the trans tunnel, thanks EdwardB) that will close this all in and I will take care to seal well around the PCM where it penetrates the aluminum. Rivnuts and a bracket have made this a sturdy location. I have run the engine harness and the Controls Unit and they seem to work well here. There is about 4 feet of thick bundle at the start of the Controls Unit that needs to be dealt with. If I mount the DPB just outside the transmission tunnel, I can loop, tie and hang the excess wiring inside the tunnel(Thank you Mike Everson).

Fuse Panel

I found 2 viable options here.

1. Right of steering column behind dash(like Mike Everson). No exposed wires from driver's POV, but again worried about excess ductwork.
2. Driver's left knee below chassis SN. Potentially exposed wires, but leaves room for access and ductwork. I plan on fabbing an aluminum panel to cover this. I haven't seen this in other builds, but I assume it can work and be cosmetic. I don't think I would match the full angled frame brace. May have to be creative here. I used the same bracket technique as EdwardB to bracket this panel(Thank you Paul).

I must admit that wiring all these harnesses was intimidating. I have a long way to go, but as I have chipped away, I feel more and more confident that I can complete the task.

Currently, I am pulling the engine to finalize some engine bay aluminum and to fix my clutch fork and get comfortable with the hydraulic clutch set-up.

My wife does not understand why I would want to torture myself with a project like this, but I am loving it.

88493884948849588496

jdavis500

10-01-2018, 04:24 PM

Here is a quick update on a few things. I will try to post more. I tore down a bunch of stuff for powdercoat, installed powdercoat and now I am in the reinstall phase.

I got the Mastercool crimper for the AC lines. I found that the crimper squishes some of the hose out of the fitting and between the crimps on either side, elongates the hose by around a half inch. I never retested the hose after I crimped both ends until my reinstall. It took a long time for me to figure out why the hose was too long. Sooo, ordered four more fittings and shortened the hose. Now fits no problem. Some things come with experience.

The lower hose at the condenser came into contact with the frame and I had to notch that out to get clearance.

Here are some more finished pictures of PCM placement.

David Williamson

10-02-2018, 07:51 AM

Getting the short hoses from the evaporator to the bulkhead fitted was a pain. I found a route to fit them without cutting the frame by moving the heater around until it fit. If I was to do it again I would ditch the bulkhead fitting and use grommets like one of the other builders here did.
David W

jdavis500

10-02-2018, 03:29 PM

P100DHG

10-02-2018, 04:40 PM

I know it's not apples-to-apples but here's a piano-hinged cover for my roadster trunk dropped-box:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=57742&d=1471886252

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=57741&d=1471886251

It might give you an idea how to proceed?

:)

What did you use to polish the panels like that?

jdavis500

10-02-2018, 06:25 PM

What did you use to polish the panels like that?

Agreed. They look great, but not my post.

edwardb

10-02-2018, 08:40 PM

Starting to work on wiring and looking for a PDB location. I hadn't seen this location. It keps thigs clean with the excess harness length tucked above transmission. Does anyone see any issues with installing here. Seems to have good access, while preventing clutter.94569

Should work there. As long as you're not hitting anything on the back of the engine, which would be pretty obvious since it's right there. You may need to tweak the front power connection a little, including attaching the main power with a right angle terminal. That's what I did on my Roadster since it was also right behind the engine like that. You do need to be able to get the cover off occasionally, and it might not be too handy for that. But no big deal. I've had the cover on #8674 off maybe twice in two years of running. Both times to find there wasn't anything wrong, e.g. blown fuse, etc. I'll eventually be posting pictures of where I mounted mine on my Coupe build. In that same back panel area, but on the other side and higher. But then most everything I'm doing including cable routing and PCM mount is different than yours. Lots if ways to approach these things. What you're doing makes good sense.

jdavis500

10-03-2018, 08:31 AM

Should work there. As long as you're not hitting anything on the back of the engine, which would be pretty obvious since it's right there. You may need to tweak the front power connection a little, including attaching the main power with a right angle terminal. That's what I did on my Roadster since it was also right behind the engine like that. You do need to be able to get the cover off occasionally, and it might not be too handy for that. But no big deal. I've had the cover on #8674 off maybe twice in two years of running. Both times to find there wasn't anything wrong, e.g. blown fuse, etc. I'll eventually be posting pictures of where I mounted mine on my Coupe build. In that same back panel area, but on the other side and higher. But then most everything I'm doing including cable routing and PCM mount is different than yours. Lots if ways to approach these things. What you're doing makes good sense.

Thanks for the feedback. I made a bracket for the PDB to sit on because it is not very stable if mounted by bolts and rivnuts alone. I set it up so that if I can't get good access, I could unblot and retract. I did break down the harness a little to give me more length to the branch that leads to the PDB.

jdavis500

10-27-2018, 11:58 AM

I am currently working on plumbing for my Moroso 63806 coolant tank. I have got my hoses(Thank you, EdwardB for providing the part numbers). The only work-around here is for the hose that attaches to the forward nipple(?) on the tank. It will connect to a hose barb that on the upper side of the radiator(DS). I am planning on ordering this barb today. The only difference from this and the MK4 setup is that this hose needs to be extended to reach the radiator. I plan to run the factory hose to the DS, under where the UCA attaches, using a hose barb union/worm drive clamps to attach a new hose here that will extend foward to the radiator hose barb mentioned above. I haven't seen this setup in action, but seems like a good plan to me.

jdavis500

12-11-2018, 07:50 PM

Powder coat, for the most part, is finished. Spray on Lizard Skin Heat and Sound also. Spray on insulation was a big production. Lots of masking and unmasking. Drying and curing. I picked up the sprayer and the full cannister wasn't fully locked so the whole thing spilled on the floor. The finished product looks great and I am confident it will perform, but thinking maybe I would go with stick on in the future. Especially since no one will ever see it. I didn't fully caulk or close gaps because I thought the insulation would be enough to seal them. I would like to use a rope of some putty like JB weld that will bond to everything and be hard and waterproof. Open to any ideas of what product would be nice. Maybe an elastic contruction adhesive. I feel like the silicone might not be durable enough in these particular joints(particularly around the footboxes). Caulk with insulation over the top would be fine, but that isn't what I will have when I patch these areas. I felt like the insulation sprayed better at a psi higher than recommended. I liked it at about 75psi. Heat was second and easier to work with because the sound insulation spurted out in clumps.

Now that I can start finalizing some wiring in the cabin, I am looking forward to switch layout. I took a look at New Vintage USA's switch panels and I like them. The switches are simple and have backlit laser etched placards above each switch that look appropriate for the period. They can make switch panels of any shape and size. Some include guages like boost and N2O for instance. I have a panel that I fabbed for the upper console just beneath the dash piece. Proportionally, I like this custom panel in this location. I don't know much about the wiring of said panel with regard to the LED backlighting, but I assume it won't be a problem. I also partly mocked up a panel in about the same size. The fit will be tight behind my fabbed console panel will be tight because of the pitch of the forward console panel. I am pretty sure I can make it work. I think it will look great and be a good impact for the money spent. The only switches I plan on having in the upper dash is headlights and my Guard Dawg PBS-I - 25 mm Billet Brushed Stainless keyless ignition. Still need to place the horn and some indicator lights in the cluster panel. Any comments appreciated.

http://newvintageusallc.mybigcommerce.com/toggle-switch-panels/

jdavis500

03-11-2019, 04:02 PM

It's been a while since my last update. Partly because I didn't think I had much to add to the "knowledge base" This time I have a general wire routing question. I was looking at the DS front of the engine regarding wire routing. I tucked everything cleanly between cylinder head nooks and coolant plumbing crannies. After a couple of go kart rides with a hot engine, I started thinking maybe I should not be so aggressive with my wire routing. Everything is in a Ford loom for the most part. I just don't know how well the wires tolerate the heat. I am posting a picture where I actually created a little space here and there. Specifically, I am referring to the wires going to the alterantor, water temp, oil pressure sensor. I know the wires are hard to really pickout, so in general, can the loom touch hot things?

One setback that I had documented in "Go Kart Fail" was the fact that I hadn't setup the pivot stud correctly in the bellhousing. My understanding was that the clutch fork angle was supposed to be just rear of perpindicular to the drivetrain. As a result, when I mated the transmission to the engine, the clutch was always engaged and the car went nowhere when I tried to let out the clutch. It all makes sense now. Man, that was a hassle taking everything apart and putting it back together back together. The end pivot stud depth for my quicktime housing with TKO600 and Coyote was fully seated in the mount. Even then, I think I could have used a another turn deeper to allow the fork to be completely free of pressure when not engaged.

Alignment was fun. I used the Longacre toe-in plteas, camber/caster digital guage and the Quicktrick turnplates. I'm sure alignment shops have a system down, but I still have a new respect for that job. Its a lot of work. Back and forth setting camber, caster, toe and repeat. Eventually, it all works.

I am curious where others have installed the GPS receiver for the Vintage guages. Does it just go anywhere? Does it have to be mounted flat rather than vertical? I seem to have misplaced my directions.

Over the weekend I had my first wire short issue. I had the starter switch rolling aroud on the floor of the cabin. The 4 post screws around the starter switch are prominent and apprently can ground easily unless you wrap them with something like electrical tape. The starter wire shorted which made a lot of smoke and melted the plastic wire insulation. In retrospect, it was a good thing it happened because it made me double down on my wiring knowledge. I still have plenty to learn, but I now have "the fear of God" regarding shorts that can start a fire. I am currently trying to figure out which wires need a circuit breaker that don't already have a fuse. It is one thing to wire so that things work and another to wire them safely.

TBH, I haven't buttoned up my wiring enough to post detail shots, but I will when I am at a more worthy point.

David Williamson

03-11-2019, 05:08 PM

I put the GPS sensor on top of the dash left side so it can "see" through the windshield, it's black on black so it is hidden. I have black vinyl covering the dash.
David W

edwardb

03-11-2019, 09:06 PM

Generally speaking, if your wire looms aren't touching anything, you're probably OK. In the direct area of a high heat source though, like the headers for example, I would try to keep the wiring as far away as possible. For my Coyote builds, for the sensor and alternator wires near the headers, I routed them away from the headers as best I could and wrapped with this tape from DEI. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/dei-010408.

Yea, get those ignition switch wire terminals covered. Kind of a worse case scenario there. You're dealing with direct battery power plus it's not fused at that point. So touching to ground is going to start some serious action.

On the Roadsters, we've found the location of the GPS antenna isn't super critical. Many of us put it on the windshield mount (it's steel, so the magnet holds very well) that's in the corner of the dash area in front of the windshield. It's under the fiberglass body, but doesn't seem to have any problem acquiring and keeping the signal. I've had mine there for two seasons of driving. Long answer to say I haven't found the final location for mine on the Coupe build. But will probably be also somewhere under the body. Just not shielded by metal. David W's suggestion is one I've also considered.

jdavis500

03-12-2019, 01:47 PM

Great! Thanks guys. Cool Tape is ordered.

jdavis500

04-22-2019, 10:30 AM

I currently have console panels out for an upholstery person to do French seams on black vinyl. I plan on installing those myself down the road. It would be really nice to do it now so I can finalize the dash wiring, but I can see that it may get damaged in the future. It takes a lot of discipline not to finish some items on the checklist. It would look great and feel good to finish the carpet and dash, but I can see that it may get damaged down the road. Talk about delayed gratification. My cabin work is pretty much complete. I am wiring my Guard Dawg keyless ignition. I am not 100% finished with that. Still trying to figure out exactly how it should be wired compared to the keyed ignition. I will post on that later if I can't get it all figured out. I posted elsewhere regarding "Daytona" nameplates. I made a lot of calls. Initially, I thought I might go with chrome plated plastic. They would be full cut-out and look like the dealer nameplates that they put on new cars. BTW, I really hate that dealers do that. Whenever I buy a new car, I tell them that I won't take delivery if they put that on the car. Why is it that they think that they can use your car for their advertising after you purchase it? So self-serving. Anyway, I could order about 50 nameplates in plated ABS plastic for around $650. I thought maybe I could sell them. I finally decided that polished aluminum would be a better option. I know that I want to put one on the dash and probably one on each front fender. The surface has a little curve to it at the fender. I haven't completed the order yet, so I need to check in with them on how that would work. The look is a departure from other builds and is certainly not original looking, but I feel that it would give it more of a polished production car look. As Wareagle said, they are not cheap! My biggest challenge with wiring is fitting everything behind my console/dash bridge that I fabricated. All the connectors behind the switch panel take a bit of space. I ended up creating 2 cut-outs in the upper trans tunnel cover with recesses. They help, but there is still a little pressure in places. Eventually, I will make it work. Again, it can't be finalized really until I get the carpet in. My wiring behind the dash is somewhat respectable in a birds nest kind of way. If I build another, I will have wiring much more planned out so that I can package wires together and really get a more clean look. My engine compartment is pretty buttoned-up. It took me a while to figure out how to burp the cooling system. Lots of trial and error with plenty of overheating in between. I have put about 6 miles on the car in our subdivision. Thinking about doing paint and body myself. I have zero experience with this, but it sounds fun. I like learning new things. I have to admit that learning new things like alignment is partly because I fear that others that work on this car won't show as much care that I will. I don't want scratched rims or powder coat... In my mind, my biggest question mark moving forward is the side pipes. I have GP headers that are the same as the MKIV headers(correct for the Gen3 coupe and Gen 2 Coyote). Currently, the side pipes aren't really in the ballpark for correct fitment. I know there are adjustment shims that go between the headers and side pipes. Do I stick with the FFR side pipes that already have significant deep rust on the interior? Do I look for other of the shelf side pipes(not aware of these at this point)? Do I have some custom made(What budget)?

Having a ball!

jdavis500

04-22-2019, 10:31 AM

More Pics.

jdavis500

05-16-2019, 02:13 PM

I moved on from wiring and interior. I had some bugs that I had to run down including a no start again. I have learned so much about no start diagnosis from Scanner Danner on Youtube. His videos could easily be a series on Motor Trend. Every case is a new mystery and he is very knowledgable and a good teacher. I purchased a Power Probe 4 and it makes life easier for hunting issues down. Interior vinyl has been prepared by an upholsterer with black vinyl and light gray stitching with a french seam. I will install it myself when the time comes. So, on to body.

I started by putting the body and hood in place to check general fitment. Despite having the cabin rear quarter aluminum panels locked in, it was not too difficult. I think I can make that work without removing them. I went thru the measurement process at the hatch and it was dead on without doing anything. Checking the rocker panel notching areas, I decided I preferred the idea of trimming the frame. I think it will definitely look more cosmetic. The precut holes for exhaust are at least in the ballpark. There will be some trimming on the forward edge, but not much. Hood looked fine. It's hard to know without installing the hinges which I can't seem to find right now. I am hoping that they didn't get left behind at the powder coater. I have a habit of losing things only to discover that they aren't lost. They should turn up somewhere in the garage soon. After lots of paint and body research, I have committed to doing it all myself. A lot of the process is a mystery and I wonder how in the world I will accomplish it all, but then again I said the same about installing the engine and wiring. Having no experience in these areas makes it that much more rewarding when I cross the finish line.

I started by scrubbing the body a couple of times with comet and using a steel brush and flathead screwdriver to remove wax being careful not to drive wax into the parting lines. Then I used Custom Shop Restoration KW901 Wax a Grease Remover a few times. Next, I decided on using a Dremel with a barrel sander to knock-down the gelcoat on the parting lines. I found that there were several areas that I uncovered that lead to cavities so I was a little more aggressive with the sanding. Maybe I went a little overboard here, but the plan is to use HSRF. I was surprised to find that some cavities contained wax sealed inside like a jelly donut. The Right side of the hood was the worst. I will admit that some sanded areas did not leave much fiberglass beneath, but seemed necessary to get all the cancer out.

I have a couple of questions on how to handle things.

The front portion of the left pontoon is very thin and arrived cracked and clearly needs to be patched. My plan is to use vinyl ester resin and chipmat to build this section from behind then sand down the surface to eliminate and fissures and then patch with HSRF over the top.

I have deep parting line issues on both sides at the upper rear area of the quarter windows. They are deep and have little fiberglass beneath. I am assuming that I need to keep sanding until I can smooth edges and make sure there will be no air inside after filled with HSRF? I am not sure how much attention I should give to these deep cavities that have raw fiberglass fibers on the inside of the cavities. I don't know if these cavities need to be backed with more glass.

One area on the hood has a 3mm hole. I can see daylight here. If I patch behind this, it will stand out when the hood is up. This hole is in the parting line to the right of the PS headlight. Should I patch with fiberglass behind it? If so, there is some kind of black paint on the underside of the hood. Maybe I can get away with just HSRF on top?

This begs the question what to do to dress up the underside of the hood. It looks like the Gen 2 coupe had a more homogenous underside that was easier to work with. The Gen 3 coupe has different materials and different layers that make it less aesthetic. Painting bedliner can be done, but the surface does not look tidy. Any thoughts here?

edwardb

05-16-2019, 05:22 PM

Your body looks to be a little worse than mine. But I had many of the same issues. Definitely you need to dig that clay out of the parting lines. I had some in mine too. My gel coat was cracked along the pontoons too (along with several other areas) but once I trimmed it wasn't too bad. Didn't have to add any glass. Just repaired with HSRF. That wraparound area inside and behind the doors was rough on mine too. Especially on the right side. I cleaned it up and repaired with HSRF. Didn't feel like it was bad enough to add any glass so didn't. It's not structural at all. But yours might be worse. I also have the mismatched parting lines by the scoops behind the doors. I'm leaving that to my painter. He might grind it down a little. But I suspect mainly it will be fixed with body filler, e.g. Rage Gold or whatever they use. All in all, it's kind of mixed bag IMO. The body fit and match is pretty good, once you wrestle everything in place. But some of the details could use some improvement.

I'll be real curious to watch your progress getting the body installed and lined up. My rear body section also lined up like the instructions showed. But then when adding the front cowl and doors, found a lot of moving parts to get it as good as I could. Detailed quite a bit in my build thread, which I suspect you've been following. Will be very interested to see how your experience compares to mine. You're way braver than me doing your own body work and paint. :p

freds

05-17-2019, 07:28 AM

I suspect my body was among the worst. I foolishly thought all I would have to do would be scrape out the FFR joints and fill them. Wrong!!! The most troublesome thing was that many of the panels were not aligned with their neighbors....requiring removal of a lot of material to get the joints smooth.I'm almost finished. Would I do it again? I don't think so. It has been a long long job to get the body into the shape it is in today.

107383107384107385107385107386107387107388

Ltngdrvr

05-17-2019, 12:13 PM

edwardb

05-17-2019, 03:05 PM

That's the biggest disappointment I see with these cars, the poor quality of the fiberglass finish as it comes from FFR. And, they talk about how great they are, but I'm just not seeing it in any of these builds.

I'm not a body work guy, I'm excellent at the mechanical part, so all my body work would have to be done buy a paid pro, and that is some of the priciest work to have done.

Now, if you're building a race car, or just don't care too much about how it looks, well, I guess then you're okay, but that's not where I'd be.

So I'm sitting here wondering what the purpose is of this post, and whether I should take the time to respond. But here goes. (1) This is a Factory Five forum made up of enthusiasts that mostly have built and/or owned their products. Based on your recent join date and the posts you've made, don't see any evidence of that on your part. (2) This particular thread is a build thread. Kind of a big deal. The OP has already made the choice, paid the admission fee, and has a build underway. What is the point of trashing Factory Five in this context? And maybe worse yet, suggesting if you build one of these you don't care what it looks like. That's ridiculous. (3) I will never make excuses for poor quality, and I agree there are aspects of these bodies that could be better. Also some variation. Mine isn't as bad as either discussed here. But it's still not perfect. I'm dealing with it, as are these guys. (4) I can't speak for the two examples here, but I'm personally not a body work expert. About as far from it as I can get. So it takes me longer than it would a pro. Much longer. But I'm trying to get mine sorted out for paint without them doing any body work or fitting. Call it sweat equity. Looks like these two examples are doing the same thing. One of the very well known and experienced body/paint guys on here (he's done hundreds, literally) says a Daytona takes about 40 hours of prep and fitting work before paint. Granted that's not free. But it's not that much of the entire build budget if you have to pay a pro to do it. (5) Finally, if you want to own a Daytona Coupe, there aren't many options. There are several factory built versions that I know of, and they cost multiples of one of these. Better? I don't know. Doesn't matter to me because I'm not willing to pay that much plus I want to do the build. That's one of the huge attractions for me, and others cite the same thing. I'm not aware of any other option for a kit built Daytona Coupe that's close to this price or overall quality when completed. Again, that's not meant to excuse obvious shortcomings. But helps to put it into perspective. If this isn't for you, fine. It's not for everyone or easy. But maybe consider before posting comments like this. OK, off the soapbox.

Ltngdrvr

05-17-2019, 06:12 PM

The point of my comments, in regard to comments made about the body's poor fiberglass quality of construction, was that FFR needs to concentrate some of its efforts to improving more than just the chassis on their cars.

freds

05-17-2019, 06:36 PM

Looks like these two examples are doing the same thing. One of the very well known and experienced body/paint guys on here (he's done hundreds, literally) says a Daytona takes about 40 hours of prep and fitting work before paint. Granted that's not free. But it's not that much of the entire build budget if you have to pay a pro to do it. (5) Finally, if you want to own a Daytona Coupe, there aren't many options. There are several factory built versions that I know of, and they cost multiples of one of these. Better? I don't know. Doesn't matter to me because I'm not willing to pay that much plus I want to do the build. That's one of the huge attractions for me, and others cite the same thing. I'm not aware of any other option for a kit built Daytona Coupe that's close to this price or overall quality when completed. Again, that's not meant to excuse obvious shortcomings. But helps to put it into perspective. If this isn't for you, fine. It's not for everyone or easy. But maybe consider before posting comments like this. OK, off the soapbox.[/QUOTE]

Hi all: there is not one word of complaint in my post, nor in my mind! This is a build thread and my intent is to let other potential builders know what they might face if they choose to do the complete body themselves. (as I did).

edwardb

05-17-2019, 07:14 PM

Hi all: there is not one word of complaint in my post, nor in my mind! This is a build thread and my intent is to let other potential builders know what they might face if they choose to do the complete body themselves. (as I did).

That's how I interpreted your post as well. My comments were not directed toward you. Not in the slightest. Should have been clear in my post who I quoted, who still doesn't get it BTW. In hindsight probably should have left this alone. Just rubbed me the wrong way.

I'm out. Back to our builds and build threads. :)

freds

05-18-2019, 01:53 PM

That's how I interpreted your post as well. My comments were not directed toward you. Not in the slightest. Should have been clear in my post who I quoted, who still doesn't get it BTW. In hindsight probably should have left this alone. Just rubbed me the wrong way.

I'm out. Back to our builds and build threads. :)

Thanks.

jdavis500

05-20-2019, 07:38 PM

107677107678
I found this pocket between fiberglass layers on the rear PS roof. I kept digging and it kept going. I go to a point where the top layer of the pocket is pretty thick and strong, but there is still an air pocket. What should I do here? I am all set for HSRF otherwise. I am afraid if I keep digging, I will get a large full thickness hole in the roof.

edwardb

05-21-2019, 06:10 AM

Clearly there's a gap there between the outer and inner body shells. But the outer shell looks solid and intact. I wouldn't remove any more of it. Assuming you can reach down in there with a small knife, steel rule, whatever, at this point I'd stuff it full of HSRF as best you can and leave it alone. Then fill to the surface with HSRF and let the rest of the body work finish it off.

jdavis500

06-09-2019, 11:34 AM

Did I miss a memo on the condensor for the Gen3 Coupe? It seems wider than EdwardB's. It measures 26" wide including the post ends(not the bracket portion). As a result, it is too wide to accommodate the hinges as they swing back and up. The condenser could be moved to the passenger side, but the hose fitting would then need to be adapted away from the instructions. Any thoughts?108567108568108569108570

David Williamson

06-09-2019, 04:29 PM

I cut a small section out of my hinge and moved it to the right to get the hood to open a little more. It still does not open as far as I would like it to.
David W

edwardb

06-09-2019, 05:14 PM

The cowl hinges for me, to be honest, are one of the more disappointing aspects of the kit. They don't match the angle between the body and the fog light buckets where they're supposed to be attached. They run not only into the A/C condenser but also the radiator surround aluminum. I ran out of adjustment on one side and had to open the slot. And to top it off, don't match the pictures in the instructions manual. Other than that, I think they're great. :rolleyes:

You're probably not going to like what I did, but with all the other problems going on, I ended up getting a different A/C condenser. Not only didn't it fit, mine had a number of crushed fins. Was packaged in a box that didn't give it any protection at all. Probably should have protested to Factory Five, but would have had the same fitment issue. So I bit the bullet for $150. A Vintage Air 03263-VUC fits between the hinges, and frankly appears to be a higher quality piece. Hated doing that, but just bought it and didn't look back. With that everything fit, although I still had to cut a corner on the hinge on one side for the fitting. Mine looks like this now, and all is working. BTW, keep in mind the travel is limited by (1) the frame, (2) the gas struts, and (3) at ride height, the nose gets pretty close to the ground when open. Not sure it could go a whole lot more.

https://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%20Daytona%20Coupe/Misc%20Pics/IMG_1381_zpszfjautqy.jpg (https://s867.photobucket.com/user/edwardb123/media/Factory%20Five%20Daytona%20Coupe/Misc%20Pics/IMG_1381_zpszfjautqy.jpg.html)

https://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%20Daytona%20Coupe/Misc%20Pics/IMG_1380_zpsp1uhgafr.jpg (http://s867.photobucket.com/user/edwardb123/media/Factory%20Five%20Daytona%20Coupe/Misc%20Pics/IMG_1380_zpsp1uhgafr.jpg.html)

jdavis500

06-09-2019, 06:05 PM

Thanks, Paul. I thought that maybe they corrected things and sent out a 12"x24" condenser with your AC kit since it was a little later. Hey FFR! Change the condenser in the Coupe AC kit to 12"x24"(or 14"x24")!! I agree that at this point, I am not going to waste the time protesting. Pay the money and keep moving.

jdavis500

06-10-2019, 08:40 AM

Here is a view of the hinge fitting. A shim is needed to fill the gap. I stacked some wood shims to give me an idea of what size and shape I needed, then cut some wood by hand since I don't have a bandsaw. I am not sure if I will use this piece of wood or use it as a template to cut some aluminum to match. The shim fits easily. Also, not sure that I want to lock it into place before I get the correct size condenser in for testing.108657108658

edwardb

06-10-2019, 10:26 AM

I used wood shims on mine and plan to leave them there. Probably you've seen that in my build thread. I did work to get the fit as close as I could. They're bonded to the hinges with JB Weld, and to the body with 3M HSRF. That plus the retaining bolt, I'm confident they won't go anywhere. I'm going to finish the underside of the cowl with some type of bedliner coating, and the wood pieces will be completely covered and encapsulated. The triangular attachment between the fog light buckets and the bottom of the cowl is important to make sure the hinges are stable. But can't imagine there's a lot of stress there. Certainly not enough that the wood would fail. Especially with the through bolt. Having said that, cutting and re-welding them on the right angle would be the best choice (other than Factory Five making them right in the first place...) which I know Eric Treves did on his build. But I don't weld, plus already had mine powder coated. Which I think you did too. Shims from aluminum would be fine too. Just not sure it really adds anything.

One other comment. I think from following your thread you are far enough with body work that your cowl position is determined based on everything else. I found not everything on the cowl is perfectly symmetrical. Make sure the cowl is where you want it before drilling and mounting the hinges. On mine, the location of the hinges on the fog light buckets is slightly different between the two sides. Don't know if that's typical. But I messed with alignment a lot and that's where it ended up for the best overall fit.

jdavis500

06-10-2019, 01:40 PM

David Williamson

06-10-2019, 02:15 PM

The hood and door fitting takes a long time. I ended up leaving all the fine tuning for the body guy, I am sure it cost me $$. If you have not already done so you can pull the pontoons in or out with the lower splash shields.
David W

jdavis500

06-10-2019, 02:40 PM

Thanks, David. I haven't quite gotten there yet. I plan on doing body and paint myself. I realize that is an ambitious plan and it will take a heck of a lot longer, but I am up for the challenge. Hopefully, I don't eat my words in the next few months.

edwardb

06-10-2019, 05:10 PM

I played with the hood fitment for several hours before drilling the foglight buckets. It seemed that when the hood met the cowl perfectly and the pontoons were lined-up, the wheel arches were an inch to the PS. No matter how I trimmed, I couldn't overcome that. Pushing the cowl over helps, but not perfect. I am in the ballpark, but there will be lots of filler. There didn't seem to be a position where the hood rolled perfectly with the cowl laterally toward the pontoon. I felt the most important thing was getting the fitment at the front of the hood even left to right. It seemed like everything else could be filled.

That's what I experienced as well. I didn't end up an inch off, but the cowl is definitely asymmetrical and proud on the PS. Today I'm wrapping up the upper front splash guards. The ones that are mounted to the top of the cowl. Taking a little adjusting to get them to fit the way I want. But not terrible. Interestingly, those parts are not symmetrical either. The PS (right) one is a different profile than the DS (left) one. So the difference is obviously known. Like I described in my build thread, takes some time to find the best spot for everything.

jdavis500

06-24-2019, 04:28 PM

edwardb

06-24-2019, 04:41 PM

I have installed my hood hinges, set the rod ends in the brackets and installed the gas struts according to the manual. When I close the hood, the end of the hood is 3/4" from the cowl. I am not sure how to get the hood rearward without moving the gas strut mounting brackets so they don't put too much forward pressure when the hood is closed. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

What's the gap without the gas struts? Where you want it? I agree the struts push the cowl open. My solution was robust alignment pins on the front of the pontoons, with the location set without the gas struts and the cowl gap I wanted. Talked about in my build thread. When closing the cowl, a slight push drops the cowl onto the pins and it aligns OK with the proper gap. I know of at least two other builds that removed the gas struts and just went to prop rods for this reason. That's another option.

jdavis500

07-04-2019, 02:09 PM

I am having a hard time trying to figure out what I am doing wrong. I have prepped the hatch opening with spacers to maintain centering and appropriate height of glass. I first installed the bracket directly to the glass. Then the hinge assembly to the roll bar. On the right side, I cannot get the bolt holes to line up between the glass bracket and the pivot arm. When I take another approach of placing the bolts first and then mounting to the rollbar, the rollbar clamp portion is 3/8"-1/2" away from the rollbar. It doesn't seem to matter if the pivot arm is inside of the glass bracket or outside.I haven't read about others having difficulty here. It seems like this should be easy. I would like some feedback on how smoothly this process went for others. I am wondering if my body is too high which raises the glass. At one point I had things attached and the swing of the arm didn't seem to track the glass up and away as I would imagine. I would like to know where the pivot point ends up for others.

110085
110086
110087
110089

David Williamson

07-04-2019, 02:13 PM

did you get the revised hinge parts from FFR, they are longer? The manual shows cuting the body for clearance but with the longer hinge I did not need to cut it.
David W

jdavis500

07-04-2019, 02:35 PM

Ah jeez. It has been so long, I didn't know or remember that they were updated. I found the parts and it explains everything. Thanks, David.

edwardb

07-04-2019, 03:16 PM

David W beat me to it. That was going to be the first thing I was going to check and ask, e.g. about the updated arms. I thought maybe the updated arms would prevent having to cut the body. But I didn't find that to be the case. Thought I tried every angle and position. Interesting that he didn't cut the body. Here's a couple pics I just took of mine, FWIW. Shows where the pivot and arms lined up on mine. It was a little fiddly to get set up. But sits in the opening perfectly and opens and closes like it should.

https://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%20Daytona%20Coupe/Misc%20Pics/IMG_1432_zpskmzrzt0k.jpg (http://s867.photobucket.com/user/edwardb123/media/Factory%20Five%20Daytona%20Coupe/Misc%20Pics/IMG_1432_zpskmzrzt0k.jpg.html)

https://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%20Daytona%20Coupe/Misc%20Pics/IMG_1433_zpsgwa0gn2x.jpg (http://s867.photobucket.com/user/edwardb123/media/Factory%20Five%20Daytona%20Coupe/Misc%20Pics/IMG_1433_zpsgwa0gn2x.jpg.html)

jdavis500

07-04-2019, 03:31 PM

Ok, thanks, guys. I spent about 5 hours messing with the wrong parts. And about 5 minutes with the right parts. Looks perfect now. Glad I finally got something accomplished today.

jdavis500

07-15-2019, 12:57 PM

The project is moving along and I and almost finished with fine-tuning the hood and the hatch glass.

Hatch Glass: When I install the glass without struts, it fits pretty well although the open is not completely square so there is an extra 1/8 here and there and short the same on the opposite side. Then I install struts and the left side of the glass is pushed away from the front edge of the opening by an additional 1/4". No matter what I do, I can stop that flex. It seems to be in the hinge assembly, yet everything is very tight. I even put a laser on the body to see if it is the body that is flexing forward and it changes maybe 1/16". I can compensate the fitment slightly forward without the struts so that with the struts I am in the right ballpark. Still, the gaps all around are asymmetrical. I assume that part of the bodywork process is the sand and fill these gaps to make them uniform? Has anyone else had issues with gas strut flex at the hatch?

Hood: Bodywork is totally new to me. I am getting the hood and pontoon flange gap in the ballpark. On the left side, the rear of that gap is a little tight(1/8") and the front is 1/8" too wide. I plan to do a little sanding on the rear and a little filling with Rage Gold on the front. I won't place the locating pin until after I have gotten the gap where it needs to be. The right side gap is good although I can't get the front corner totally aligned with the pontoon front corner. I will sand a little and fill a little eventually to make those match.

DS door threshold: I found that if I shim the front edge of the threshold up 1/8" near where the door hinge goes, I get a better cowl/hood match. I assume that won't cause any problems.

Beware of the rear edge of the body where the rear spoiler installs. I tangentially knocked it with a 2x4 and it broke open a blister in the fiberglass right on the edge. The wall of the blister was very thin. I went down the edge and found a few more blisters in the fiberglass. They will easily be filled with HSRF, but I feel a little lucky that I discovered them now instead of after paint.

I realize that all these things should be fixed ny more adjustments of the hood, but I really don't think I can get any closer. Any input would be appreciated.

EdwardB, I borrowed your solution to the nose locating pins and it works great. I would have never thought of cutting down a bolt to replace the small pins that wer sent by FFR. I Tapped a thick piece of aluminum and it worked great. I plan on bonding the plate with HSRF.

110748
110749
110750

jdavis500

07-30-2019, 08:49 PM

After a lot of head-scratching, I finally got my hood issue under control. I had mounted the hood slightly too far to the passenger side. The hood isn't square so at the time it seemed like the best position. I will spare you all the details, but I finally got things in the ballpark without the struts mounted. The hood/cowl gap was 3/16". Once I installed the struts, the rear edge of the hood was 3/16" farther forward from the cowl with the hood closed. No matter what I did, I couldn't get the gap better than 3/8" with struts in place. I determined that when struts were in place, the front angle of the hood compressed.

Here is a picture of the hood open and struts installed:
111566
I clamped a white piece of wood with the upper right corner flush with the edge of the fiberglass hood bracing strip.

This picture is with struts installed and the hood closed. Note that the upper right corner of the white piece of wood is at least 1/4" above the edge of the bracing strip.
111567
The force of the strut is causing the front end of the hood to deform which keeps it from reaching all the way back to the cowl. Without the struts, this compression does not occur.

My solution was to fabricate a brace and it seems to remedy the flex and eliminate the gap problem.
111568111569

Just a note on the FFR cutouts for the headlights. They need some trimming to accommodate the buckets and get them centered. The main problem that I experienced was the drilled holes for the headlamp adjusting screws. I installed the buckets and headlights based on these holes then realized that the drill holes were not level. This caused the lamps to be far from vertical. Not a big deal to fix, but I had to redo everything with the laser level and now the headlights are vertical and I can easily patch the other holes.
111574

I posted this elsewhere but wanted to include this with my build thread. I thought I would try alternative headlight lens mounting hardware. The options were the miniature rod end method or the BRE hardware that is made for the Superformance Coupe lens kit. The kit hardware provides 3 mounts per lens. I will see how that goes. It should be ok. I am not sure that it is any better and it costs about the same or slightly more. I guess I will know more when I get them installed.
111575111576

Edit:

I called BRE about getting 6 mounts. It seemed wrong. When I talked to the guy who sent the order, he said that Peter(Brock) handed him 6 mounts to ship and it didn't register to him that I should have gotten 8 mounts. He is sending me 2 more mounts. So, I will have gotten 8 mounts from BRE.

The doors are in and look good. I started by setting the frame the way that I wanted it. Placed the skin on the frame and shimmed it using clamps. Then I removed the frame with the skin on, drilled holes and replaced the shims with washers between the inner skin and the frame. Things feel very stable and it is simple to adjust the doors by adding or removing washers. I plan on installing windows, but I am waiting on the frames(long story).
111577111578

Hope to have more updates soon.

jdavis500

08-01-2019, 08:43 PM

I had some trouble with the aluminum tail light mounts. The screw studs were not fixed which meant that it was impossible to screw the nuts on. I decided to use a dab of JB Weld on the loose ones and that worked well. After having retainer ring problems, I followed the directions to use pliers to lock them in. Since then, no problem. I have to say that the Ford 37 Tail Lights are disproportionately large.
111698111699
Spent a lot of time looking for a third brake light(or stop lamp if you are searching). I wanted something smaller with curved ends. Some truck third brake lights are curved and would match the overall shape of the spoiler, they were just too big and chunky. I finally went with the HELLA LED Spoiler Centre High Mount Stop Lamp from eBay.
111696111697
Regarding my previous issue with hood closure and the pressure form the struts causing issues, I ordered 20lb Suspa Struts as an alternative to the 25 lb struts that come with the kit. They have plenty of lift force and I am not concerned with wind closing the hood inadvertently against the weaker struts. They improve the closure resistance even more than my previous modifications. I got those on eBay too. Suspa Struts C16-16706

jdavis500

11-07-2019, 01:26 PM

I wanted to give a quick update with regard to the fitment issues with my hood that I outlined in post #114. I noted that there was flex in the front end of the hood that was preventing good fitment at the cowl when the struts are installed. In the process of preparing the hood for undercoating, I noticed that on both sides of the hood near the front end of the wheel arches, the fiberglass is 1/8". Very thin... This area bends easily and is the source of my flex issues. I laid up some chop mat and things are much more rigid now.

I haven't posted in a while because I am not sure I could add anything new to the process. I have borrowed much and am satisfied. The doors fit great. Windows too. Built boxes for storage inside the doors to be covered with door cards. Still waiting on Gas'n side pipes. I know I am not alone. Not sure if I can make it happen with my GP headers, but I am going to try. Man, they(headers) were expensive. After sprayable bedliner is applied, I will start laying down Rage Gold, Slicksand, and epoxy primer. Still planning on doing the paint on my own. I have found a spray booth for rent. There is only one listed in the city of Atlanta for rent. I imagine that if I hit the bricks, I might find another that doesn't advertise.

I have a question about the set screw at the bottom of the headlight trim. The instructions recommend drilling a hole in the body for access from underneath the hood to place this screw. I see others that don't seem to have this hole drilled. Let me know if there is a better way to do this or if I am misunderstanding the instructions.

117232

edwardb

11-07-2019, 03:20 PM

My hood was thin in that area too, and required some repair. But not so thin that it was flexing that I noticed. Clearly some variability and room for improvement there. For the headlight trim rings, yes I drilled a hole in the body right below that screw. Reachable with the hood open and underneath the headlight area. Most visible in this picture cropped from one of my paint pictures. But make sure you check the fit on your trim rings first. Every set I've had (now the 4th) the hole in the ring didn't line up with the plastic bucket. The trim ring needs the retaining screw hole slotted so that the trim ring will fully seat on the bucket. Then line the hole in the body up underneath that spot.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117233&d=1573157846

jdavis500

11-18-2019, 02:07 PM

I have probably put more work into the underside of the hood than I needed to considering that I am going to put bedliner on it, but there is some inconsistency to the underside surface. Apart from the uneven texture of the fiberglass over the wheels, there are also some structural ribs that can be seen. For the big fills, I used HSRF and the rest was Rage Gold. Since I plan on doing paint and body on my own, this has been a good crash course on filling and sanding for me. I started with Dura-block sanding blocks and found that they are too rigid and flat for this curved suface. Then I tried Style Line Foam sanding blocks and see that they definitely have there place in the arsenal.

https://www.amazon.com/Soft-Sanders-Sanding-Block-6-Pack/dp/B004H2CF64/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=Style+Line&qid=1573856606&rnid=2941120011&s=hi&sr=1-4

I didn't get a good picture of it, but there is a break in the mounting flange that the splash guards mount on. It is near the radiator tunnel and is a small gap between the 2 pieces used for the flange. I used HSRF to build and form a bridge between the 2 pieces so it would be a little more seamless. Because of my wonky hood fitment, I had to buildup the horizontal surface of the pontoons. I used Rage Gold and in retrospect, I should have used HSRF. I may sand it down and start over there. On the DS, there was not much of a gap between the hod and the pontoon. I decided to lay down chopmat to reinforce the hood flange so that I cold sand into it without risk of cracking the flange at the corner edge along the flange. The fiberglass was pretty thin here to begin with. I will do the same at the corner edge of the pontoon because I really had to sand these surfaces to create the gap. You can see that I will need to build-up the top part of the front of the DS pontoon as well. Probably ought to sand this down and start over with HSRF because of the thickness. It is very satisfying to see things take shape. I can't decide if I should start to work on shaping the body before taking it off to spray on the bedline. Everything fits so well. I would need to remove all and get it back to exactly where it is again to do that work.

One question that I have is what to do with the bedliner at the rear hood edge where it meets the cowl. In my picture, you can see the dust marks of the hood bumper. I wonder if I should run the bedliner all the way to the edge or if I should mask the underside about an inch so the bumpers wouldn't be right on the edge of the bedliner. Maybe it doesn't matter?

jdavis500

02-05-2020, 12:07 PM

It has been a while since the last update because I have been filling and sanding for weeks. I imagine that the pros can do it in far fewer steps(just like the drywall guys). The most useful thing that I learned was that when the filler sets, a razor blade carves filler really well and can save tons of time in sanding.

The challenging areas to shape:

1. The front part of the pontoons/rear wheel arch. They were not level so I used 3/8-3/4" build to get these level. After I did this, I read that I shouldn't build Rage Gold to more than 1/4". It looks good and feels strong. Probably going to leave it as is at this point.

121981121982121983121984121985
2. The area of the quarter windows. I built up the lower sill of the quarter window area to give more space for attaching the plexi window(rivets without getting to close to the edge of the plexi). Lots of tricky shaping with the curves.

121986121987
3. The front corners of the hoods took me many tries to get it right. The compound curve is difficult to sand evenly.

121988
4. The rear spoiler/fin. It didn't sit flush with the body. I think there is a twist in it. The front driver's side edge sits 1/8" above the body and other areas were 1/16" above the body. Sanding didn't help. I decided to tape wax paper to the body, apply HSRF to the bottom of the spoiler and cleco it in place. Once the HSRF set, I removed the spoiler and trimmed the excess with a razor blade. After 2 rounds of this, it sit nice and flush. Although that one corner is thicker than the other, I think I can deal with it.

121989121990

5. The hood in general. I have described how my hood it not straight with the body. It is a complicated story and ultimately I think it is due to the asymmetry of the body/pontoons. Couldn't be my fitment skills... I had to build the side of the hood to spread the variance over a larger area. It won't be perfect, but it should be ok.

More photos in next post.

Some thoughts:

I recently watched an episode of *****in Rides with a '63 Corvette. They used a fiber-reinforced filler on all the edges for added durability. I think that sounds like a great idea, but not sure if it is worth the work to go back and make that happen.

I was very satisfied with the gaps using the sandpaper around a paint stick method. It is funny how much wider the gaps appear after the edges are rounded. I think that I can reel in the gap after Slicksand is applied.

I bought edge sanding blocks. They are curved to get a perfect edge. I found that they didn't work well with 80 grit, so I decided to do them by hand. I will use them with a smaller grit after primer.

I have ordered a 60-gallon compressor and will have some work to install and plumb this thing. 475 pounds!! Not sure how I am going to get it in place, but I am sure it will require a lot of beer one way or another. I am getting a little pushback from the Chairman of the Board on this. Surely, there will be some type of compromise that involves new upholstery somewhere(if I am lucky).

Any comments welcome.

jdavis500

02-05-2020, 12:14 PM

121991121992121993121994121995121996121997121998

edwardb

02-05-2020, 01:23 PM

My hat's off to you for tackling the bodywork on your own. I'm brave enough to try some things, but not that. Looks like you're making good progress. I believe 3/8-3/4" thick Rage Gold is maybe too much. But I'm not an expert on the subject at all. Maybe one of the Jeff's will weigh in. At the shop that did my Coupe, the guys did mention the area behind the side quarter windows where there's a pretty poor mold match they used some type of resin material for the fill. Said it would have been too thick and not strong enough with regular body filler, e.g. Rage (I don't know what brand they used). The material you're talking about is affectionately called kitty hair. Resin with strands of chopped fiberglass. I don't know if that's what my guys used. I do know there is some concern with using materials that are compatible with the vinylester resin FF makes their bodies from. Good luck and happy sanding. :p

nskaats

02-10-2020, 05:54 PM

freds

02-10-2020, 07:52 PM

Excellent progress on the body. Like Edward said, props for tackling it yourself. I've been considering doing it on my own, but I'm not a body guy by any stretch of the imagination. I can build engines, chassis, tune computers and suspension in my sleep...but body work is terrifying to me! Your posts make it seem doable.

I posted before that I had done all the body prep by myself. I used epoxy resin and FFR gelcoat and gelcoat paste exclusively. When done I had a local shade tree body guy spray it for $600 ($300 for each piece off the car).
Here is the body on my truck on the way to the paint shop 122339

Here is the car as it is today 122344

My body was in bad shape (worse than the pictures I have seen on the forum)....But it is not that difficult to get it right....however it takes a lot of patience time and perseverance.
Anyway I have all three when I set my mind to it. I didn't enjoy it!
It is not perfect but it's good enough for me and saving 10+ grand kept me going

Here's my Coyote dyno chart (again, sorry) 122345

So, my take, it's not that difficult.
fred

jdavis500

02-11-2020, 03:57 PM

Thanks for the encouragement nskaats and fred. Fred, you sure saved a lot of money. The red looks great! I am enjoying the ride too.

j.miller

02-12-2020, 09:12 AM

You have a PM brother...da bat

jdavis500

03-16-2020, 03:31 PM

It was a lot of work to get one coat on the car and I haven't shot the doors yet, but things went pretty well. I used red rosin paper on the floor, covered the walls with plastic, removed all other vehicles from the garage and opened all the doors. The slicksand didn't create a lot of vapor so I didn't use a fan, but definitely will when its time to paint. There is a rhythm to it. Mix and load, spray, clean gun, repeat. The process was about 15 minutes per round and I used 16oz of Slicksand each time. I never had any issues with drying in the gun, but I could have had a bit more acetone on hand for cleaning. The main problem that I had was that I didn't organize my workspace as well as I could and I knocked some stuff over a couple of times. The car is covered pretty good. In retrospect, there were times that I did not paint in an orderly fashion. I was looking to get it covered so that I couldn't see any red gelcoat thru the primer. Next coat, I will focus more on an even coverage on the whole thing. It took a bit to get my air system right. The compressor is 475lbs which presented some challenges to get it from my street down into and thru my garage in the back of my house. Then plumbing with copper pipe which includes a water separator and a 5 stage filter. Seems good so far. We will see how limited I will be by moisture when the GA heat and humidity come soon. I would love to get the spraying done before then, but let's be realistic. I do anticipate some problems sanding the sides of the hood where the latches are. I am not sure how to get the hood into position for sanding without the latches and bolts getting in the way. I am open to suggestions.

124136
124137
124138
124141
124140

edwardb

03-16-2020, 08:31 PM

Nice progress. Again, my admiration to you for your work there. The shop that did mine left the latches with bolts in place during the rough bodywork, e.g. Rage Gold (or whatever product they used) and sanding. Had them taped off. But then removed for the rest of the time. When it came time to do the actual color, clear, and polish, they removed the hood from the hinges. Propped it up in the rough location on the body but forward enough that they could paint around the edges including the pontoons. Pictures of their entire paint process in this gallery folder FWIW: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/album.php?albumid=1597.

jdavis500

03-18-2020, 01:54 PM

Thanks, I didn't realize you had additional pics in your album. They are helpful. Certain aspects of masking were difficult, particularly around the doors. It is hard to spray the interior surface of the body near the quarter windows(for instance) without masking a significantly concave "structure".

jdavis500

04-14-2024, 08:58 AM

It has been awhile since I have posted. The Daytone turned out geat. I am very happy with all the details. The paint scheme is a real eyecatcher at shows and on the street.

My only issues are:

1. My NRG quick release for the steering wheel has play in it when turning. It is a small amount of play, but I would rather have none. I need to work on that.
2. I haven't found a happy place with my coilover adjustements. I get a lot of bobbing on the highway. I looked at some videos on removing the shocks and adjusting the dampers externally. I can't tell if that is what I need or if myb answer is with spring adjustemnt.
3. My hood fitment is not perfect. It looks rgeat when I close the hood. Good gaps and allignement. It takes some effort when I close it to get everything alligned and pins engaged. I have spent hours trying to get this right, but at this point, I am willing to live with it.

Recently, I had a small feature on Caffiene and Octane on Motortrend Network. The guy that runs the show, Skip Smith, is actually a client of mine and has been a big fan of my story. Completeing all the body work and the paint in my basement garage is a little unusual. The interview is a little short. Much was left on the cutting room floor, butit was fun to get mic'd up and be on a TV show.

Here is the link if you are interested. I am at about 17:00.

https://vimeo.com/869247893?share=copy