John’s Mk4 Build Thread

[John Ibele]

Latest post is ...


>>> HERE <<< (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?27168-John%92s-Mk4-Build-Thread&p=554470&viewfull=1#post554470)


Well, this isn't going to be a typical build thread, because:


this isn't a new kit, and
its not the beginning of the build


but, other than that, it should be awesome.

It still makes sense to me to keep all my build-posts in one thread, for a couple of reasons. First, I realize how much I enjoy going through other's build threads, not just skilled & repeat builders, but also those who are tackling this for the first time. I've learned just as much just by reading about the experiences of other first time builders as from reading the build threads of seasoned ones. Second, although folks on this forum are always a very helpful bunch, I have to think its more satisfying to answer the questions of someone who's shared a bit more of their journey than just their questions. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with that - I've been doing it so far - so maybe I just decided this is what suits me best. Finally, when you post your build status and include a few pictures, experienced folks will chime in with things to think about that you hadn’t thought of, which is really helpful. As a first-time builder and not exactly a car guy, this is really reassuring.

So, I’m not sure I can add anything brilliant here, but maybe I can at least add another example of someone with the right desire and persistence delivering an end result they can be proud of.

A quick thanks to the many folks who share their experiences on this site. There's a wealth of knowledge that's freely shared here, and there's absolutely no doubt that this has increased the build quality and the value of these cars tremendously. Bob (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/member.php?822-Bob-Cowan) was extremely helpful on the other forum with my early questions and helped me refine my thoughts about the build config. Paul (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/member.php?287-edwardb)has been a huge help with his great build threads and invaluable advice. Jeff (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/member.php?53-Jeff-Kleiner)has a ton of practical advice and top-notch build demonstration on both sites. John (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/member.php?18888-phileas_fogg), Scott (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/member.php?21611-wareaglescott)and Carl (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/member.php?7222-carlewms)all have great threads on first time builds which have been very helpful and inspirational. Vendors have been very generous with time and advice. Thanks a bunch to anyone who shares information here.

This is a MK4 complete kit with IRS which was delivered in (yes, that's right...) August, 2012. I had to get rid of this (http://familyfireball.blogspot.com/), which I should have done before I got the car. That was done in 2013, and my Dad (and chief builder back in the 1970s) got to see it fully restored and sailing, which was cool. Then...I realized that a build in Minnesota isn't going to get done without heat in the garage, so I insulated, dry-walled, painted the garage. Doing the DIY route along with a busy job and finishing raising kids took some time. I did get to go to build school with my boys before they went off to college somewhere in there, which was a blast.

Now the kids are off on their own, the wife and I get all the quality time we want, so it’s a great time to crank up the thermostat and get back to work on the car. There’s nothing better on a below-zero Saturday than taking the short walk through the snow in the back yard, coffee mug in hand, and stepping into a warm garage.

Okay, getting closer to car and build stuff.

Basic approach to the build is for a well-mannered street vehicle which is suited for cruising and maybe a bit of autocross now and then. The IRS will be hooked up to a small block and T-5 up front. The only option I regret not adding to the complete kit is … cutouts. So, I'll have to do this myself when I get to the body, which isn't a disaster, just work I realize I should have left to Factory Five, particularly considering what they charge. Quite a deal. No other real regrets with what I ordered, so not so bad.

I'll go through build status in a second post.

Cheers,

-- John

[John Ibele]

Status of the build:

Front suspension and brakes are on, but I will install the steering rack after I get to the pedal box and get the steering column in, so I'll include photos of the front later.

Pumpkin is in, and I took quite a bit of time with this. I found an aluminum housing in a yard in GA, and paid as much in shipping as I did for the pumpkin to get it to MN ($60, I think). Ordered new guts from Mike Forte, who was very helpful walking through details. He strongly suggested I have him put it together; I didn't listen. In a demonstration of his customer relations skills, he quickly corrected course and said, "okay, that sounds like fun…". So I was off and running.

...and something like 30 shop hours later, I was done. And very adept at putting the rear end together and taking it apart. And adept at taking the pinion gear with ruined bearing to the local transmission shop so they could remove it and put on a new one. The major problem (just after my total lack of knowledge and ability) was that the rules for adjusting to get the right gear pattern changed when Ford moved from face milling to hobbed milling (or vice versa…it’s been awhile). So I was chasing my tail despite a detailed video, lots of advice from others, until I got the right book (https://books.google.com.sg/books/about/Ford_Differentials.html?id=Cqb2F03eYtsC&redir_esc=y) to straighten me out. By that time I could see gear patterns on the inside of my eyelids, spent time lying in bed thinking about gear patterns, thought about gear patterns at work, and so on. Finally got a gear pattern I was happy with. I’m glad I took this on, but only when I was done if you know what I mean. Two small pix that probably only look pretty to me:

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4588/39308685942_e856f1d5d1_m.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/22TzhQw)https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4735/27561334409_26f62812ea_m.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/HZv3uR)

I also went to a bone yard to harvest the rear spindles, which was worth it … everybody should see the view from a bone yard when its 40F and drizzling at least once. Had the help of my oldest boy and we had fun. I had the spindles refurbished and hubs drilled by Stu, and then installed poly bushings myself. Not necessarily something I would do again, but worth it to do once, and I did save some $$ I can spend elsewhere.

I did the rear alignment using Richard’s advice (post #5) (http://www.ffcars.com/forums/17-factory-five-roadsters/288681-irs-alignment-question.html) in the other forum, along with details from Bob (post #4) (http://www.ffcars.com/forums/17-factory-five-roadsters/502241-irs-alignment.html) on how to set up the car at ride height if you don’t have a level garage floor, which I don’t. So, I…



Bought a laser level from the local HD and mounted it on my minicamera tripod, and set the horizontal plane just under the frame of the car.
Adjusted the frame by shimming with floor tiles under my floorjacks until it was level.
Set the rear hubs to desired ride height relative to the frame, based on anticipated tire diameter, just propped up with scrap wood under the hub.
Found the center of the frame in front and back, and dropped weighted fishing line from those front and rear center points.
Aligned the laser level so the vertical plane intercepted the fishing line in front and rear, giving me a datum plane down the center of the car.
Tightened down the disks and clamped 4’ straight edges to each disk.
Used Richard’s starting point for alignment, and dialed in camber using a magnetic-mounted caster / camber gage on the disks, and the right offsets on the 4’ straight edges to get desired toe-in.
I tried to do exactly the same number of turns on the rod ends from side to side from a given starting point, just to keep things even, and hopefully be closer to finished when I checked things on the ‘second’ side. Worked out pretty well.
Double-checked overall hub-to-hub width to make sure that was dialed in properly. A little back-and-forth adjustment required here, but not much.


I had help from my youngest before he went back to school last fall to get this done, good quality time and very satisfying work. I started by thinking I would take the car to a shop to get the alignment done because I didn’t know what I was doing, but after the right amount of reading and practicing, got to the point where I had confidence I could resolve a ½ turn in the rod ends and see it in the measurements. Biggest practical advice I got was to tape the washers together to make one temporarily-solid spacer before trying to get them aligned to bang the bolt through. That’s a major reduction in the @#$% factor associated with this process.

Anyway, let me know if it seems like there’s anything I missed.

[John Ibele]

Next I worked on mounting the cobra brakes (standard offering when I got the complete kit). It took me some time to figure out how the e-brake cable was going to get to the right place, I bought two button-head cap screws for one location on the adapter brackets to buy some more room for routing. I ground down the part of the caliper casting a bit where the cable comes in so I could put a ½” retainer ring on to hold the cable housing. I like John’s approach of using an Adel clamp on the inside of rear spindle bolt to hold the cable away from the ½ axle as it goes down and away from the brake, and will do this as I button things up. I’ll add a shot when I’ve got that bolted down (all ready to go but I’m traveling for the next two weeks…).

I installed the VPM rear sway bar. This is perhaps a curious purchase since the car doesn’t have any handling problems until its actually rolling, and most of the time not even then (that’s for you, Jeff…). But, with the anticipation of doing some autocross and the difficulty of adding anything after the build, I ordered it early on. And since I had it ordered, its going on.

Very nice kit which went on exactly the way Craig outlined in the instructions. Cleaned the bare parts well and coated with Rustoleum primer and black high performance enamel, which is a good match for the black PC frame. I had painted the entire bar but the clamps fit tight enough to scrub off the paint, so I sanded the paint back off the ends of the bars where the clamp will go, and set the bar to the loosest setting for now, which is what I’ll do with the front bar when I get it installed. I’m assuming that’s the way to stay out of trouble until I really know what I’m doing with adjustments, but let me know if I’m not thinking about this right.

So, one final shot to show where I am right now: rear end is buttoned up, with the exception of putting the shocks back on and the brakes on. I have aluminum spacers for the shocks which keep me out of trouble on full travel up / down, but I’ll check again once everything is buttoned up for good.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4699/39762695041_c423ddb484_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/23zGcVB)

And, a final question before I move on. I didn’t find good documentation of the torque values required for the bolts connecting control arms to frame, or control arms to spindles, for the IRS. The control arms to frame I think are more straightforward, and I ended up with 100ish ft*lb for those. I initially went with a similar torque value when tightening spindle bolts, but did this with one spot where I should have also stuffed in a fender washer as a spacer, and ended up bending the end of the LCA where the bolt sits. (Why does a supposedly handy guy do this?? Sure sign of the wrong ratio of reading vs. wrench-turning … straightened it out with a threaded rod and couple of nuts / washers … all good now.)

For the spindle connections, I thought maybe I was overthinking this, until I realized you probably can’t overthink a safety-related torque value. I called FFR and got the answer that with both the inboard and outboard bolts you just tighten to take any slack out of the assembly, but don’t go to the point where the poly bushings are getting ground up, for example. Since there are nyloc nuts on every bolt here, presumably we’re counting on the nylon rather than the elastic stretching of the bolt to hold the nut in place, so torque matters less.

But…I’m still attached to the rated torque values, at least for the control arm to frame connection. And even with the poly bushings, there’s a sleeve around the bolt against which you can tighten, and not squeeze the @#$ out of the bushing as long as you have the right spacing at the control arm end. Like I said, thinking too much.

I’ll stick with 100ish on the inboard bolts and ‘snug but not more’ for the spindle bolts unless I hear different.

That’s it, I won’t write a book like this every post, next time will be fewer words and more pix. Looking forward to moving up to the pedal box. Based on what I’ve read, I ordered Russ’s throttle pedal, and plan to do a mechanical throttle connection for kicks. Should be fun. Back at it in early Feb when I’m done traveling.

[Yama-Bro]

Looks good. Welcome to the fun. It sounds like your kids are older, so who drew your avatar?

[John Ibele]

Looks good. Welcome to the fun. It sounds like your kids are older, so who drew your avatar?

Yeah, I thought someone might ask that. Clearing out my folks' house a few years ago (both 93 and still kicking now), I found out my mother saved everything, including a 7th grade notebook of mine with this sketch in it. Remarkably like the front of a Cobra, although I probably didn't know the specific car back then. But the sketch was certainly my attempt to capture the coolest thing on wheels at the time, whatever it was. That would put the sketch at about 1974 or so ... who knows, maybe I actually saw a real one along with all those Austin Healy 3000's, XKE's and MGA's that kept my head spinning.

I have the sketch taped up in the garage, figured it would make a good avatar. Just another example of how our attachment to these cars goes a long way back!

[Yama-Bro]

Cool story with your drawing. I was expecting it to be grandkids or something.

[John Ibele]

When I looked at the shims used in rear IRS alignment a few days ago, I wasn’t comfortable with the amount of corrosion I saw on the shims after just sitting in the garage for 9 months since alignment. I figured I would replace with stainless shims as a precaution. And, I could order Mark’s rod end seals, unless that’s just overkill for the Midwest climate.

The shim part # I found in a search was McMaster 94773A778, which made sense when I looked it up (I’m traveling at the moment or I’d just go out to the car and measure).

A couple things:

Anyone have a notion of how many shims are needed for the whole thing? Doesn’t need to be precise since they come in packs of 10. Would love to order them so they’re waiting for me when I get back to the car.

Any need to to get thinner shims? I can’t say that appeared to be needed when I did the alignment with the kit- supplied shims.

[John Ibele]

And, with some final adjustments, the rear end is buttoned up. I had questions about the vent in the IRS cover, which didn't look right but I just didn't give it much thought. Fortunately, my questions about how to replace it got answered here (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?27486-IRS-Center-Section-Vent). 30 seconds and an EZ Out backed out my broken plastic vent without sending anything down the hole in the cover, which was what I was hoping for.

Turns out the part Mike Forte sent me was not an exact replacement after all. What I got was an aluminum part with a hose barb fitting - but a quick check verified I would have a 0.010" interference fit with that part, which seemed close enough to try banging in. I used a piece of aluminum spacer left over from getting my rear shocks mounted in the right position to avoid interference throughout travel - a few bangs with a hammer and the vent was in:

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4773/39910085075_2bbaa36628_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/23NHBR6)

Rear IRS looks like this, only thing left to do is tighten up bolts holding the IRS center section, which I figured I would wait on until I was getting the drive shaft in place. And, get some 3/8" hose for the barb fitting, clamp it to the frame above the IRS and put the vent filter on the other end.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4695/26773296198_4df8257b6c_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/GMS9c9)

And, a few photos of the brakes all set up. I did get the placement of the e-brake cables figured out and routed properly, which took a bit of material removal off the casting, so I could get 1/2" retainer rings on the end of the cable housings. The cables do need to go down first, then up through the lower control arms before they go over the pumpkin. And Adele clamp will hold them next to the control arm and away from the 1/2 axles.

Right Rear:

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4780/26935369298_770041b43a_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/H3bNSW)

Left Rear:

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4778/40763385932_a4a7e3420c_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/25781sQ)

Do let me know if you see anything wrong or anything that could save me time or headache later ... one of the big reasons for a first-time builder to post pictures.

And with that, on to the pedal box, which is now underway and seems completely straightforward so far.

[John Ibele]

I've been doing the usual two steps forward, three steps back to make sure I get the most out of the building experience.

With my summer 2012-vintage complete kit I have the Wilwood pedal box with the forged pedals, but with the offset clutch quadrant. Took me a few hours of mockup time to realize the new shaft was slightly too short to fit the clip on the end of the shaft on reassembly, and the quadrant rubbed against the side of the steel bracket...then cut off the press-in stud too short, dang ... then after finding a source for that part, did some more checking and found the problem that so many had found with the offset quadrant...

So much history to go through with you've gotten behind with your build. :rolleyes: Think I'm caught up now, with searches and reading on both forums. But, I have to figure out what pieces I can / can't use as I move forward. I have a message into F5 to see if they (still?) have a conversion kit available, or ever did, to get the quadrant in line with the clutch pedal.

My front DS panel is not even on yet, so that's good, and should make any mods up there fairly straightforward. I'm suspecting I can use my forged pedal assembly with the steel plates that form the clutch quadrant, but don't yet have that confirmed. Ditto for the steel bracket that the pedal assembly bolts to. Regardless, F5 should be able to tell me what can be reused, and what needs to be ordered new.

So, more questions than answers at this point, but getting there.

[John Ibele]

Okay, that wasn't too bad.

I posted earlier (2012 Kit - Clutch Pedal Options (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?27891-2012-Kit-Clutch-Pedal-Options)) that my older kit came with the offset clutch quadrant, which did not work well with the Wilwood pedal box included in the MK4. The extended bushing that held the clutch quadrant was not properly supported, and on some roadsters the quadrant would eventually push off the retainer ring holding the quadrant on the bushing, allowing the clutch quadrant to slip off.

The new design looked good to me, as long as I could make the changes to the frame to change the placement of the firewall adjuster for the cable housing. FFR's recommendation was that I not do this mod at all, but I realize that they are not going to recommend changes that go off the map, so to speak. That's on the owner. I'm being reasonably cautious as a first-time builder, but this seemed within my capabilities.

I got replies from Mike Everson and John (phileas_fogg) to confirm my direction, along with a few calls to Mike Forte. General order of business was to:

order the newer, non-offset clutch quadrant which sits on top of the clutch pedal
order the Wilwood 260-6087 master cylinder (5/8" instead of 3/4"), which gets you closer to balancing the front and rear brakes, another update from the older kit.
Make the frame mods for the clutch pedal interference. Lots in both forums on this, pick from the choices available:

live with it as is (FFR's official recommendation, which almost no one does, as far as I can tell)
cut a bit off the pedal (they're stout, and I'm sure this can be done, but it gives me the shivers)
cut a notch out of the frame, and use the notch as stop for the clutch pedal
cut out the interfering part of the frame, and butt joint a sister patch outboard of the cutout section. Seems like most do this, and it worked fine for me.


Move the location of the firewall cable adjuster to match the new clutch quadrant position.

This required dry-fitting the assembly multiple times to get the alignment right.
On first assembly I noticed the clutch quadrant was assembled so that the clutch cable end was not lined up with the relief hole in the forged frame. Fortunately the quadrant plates are just bolted together, so changing the plate stack order was all that was required to get things lined up.
When I had the clutch quadrant set up to my liking, I located the center for the clutch cable firewall adjuster with the aid of a wire rod sitting in the cable location in the clutch quadrant. A bit of machining oil and a hole saw were a good match for the putting the new hold in place in the frame.


After everything was lined up, time for degreasing, metal prep, wash / dry, and paint with POR15...and final assembly.


Dry fit, with clutch quadrant in new location, and cable end lined up:

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/864/27999072388_27f7d7886b_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/JEbyKo)




Frame mods. I had to mount the cable adjuster at an angle to accommodate the existing holes in the frame. For the clutch interference mod, I used solid 5/8" square rod on the outside and used JB Weld to insert a portion of solid rod in each of the frame ends. I then drilled and tapped blind holes in the inserts to hold the new frame section.

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/865/41877535391_8520a5b763_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/26Nzjhg)





Final assembly:

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/946/42009487591_c4acdcd7ba_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/271eB5c)



https://farm1.staticflickr.com/827/28136934878_405348d113_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/JSn9sS)



Next its on to finishing front end suspension and steering. I had picked up an Autozone rack a few years ago, and after looking at the workmanship / fit & finish, I just couldn't do it. I ordered a reman unit from Breeze and am very happy with the quality. That's in place now, and ready for tie rods, front sway bar, and then front end alignment.

[Hacksaw84]

That is a pretty interesting story on the drawing.

[John Ibele]

That is a pretty interesting story on the drawing.

Yeah, that was a fun one. The folks are both 93 and still going, went over for Mother's day and saw photos of my dad on his sub in WWII that I had never seen before, so there's probably still more surprises in store.

[John Ibele]

I got back in to the shop on Mother's day with #1 son after all the moms were happy, and got the steering rack in place and centered and bolts torqued. I had purchased an Autozone rack some time ago but decided to go with the refurbished mustang power rack from Breeze, which looked great out of the box and went in cleanly with the usual thorough instructions. I hooked up the steering wheel temporarily just to make moving to the limits of travel easier, and to check the fit of the steering column. I followed the suggestions from Jeff and GWL in this post (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?4508-steering-rack-inner-tie-rod-on-MK4) to determine if I needed to cut any of the inner tie rod ends off to allow toe-in adjustment. Its a close thing, but it looks like I could take off 1/2" to leave plenty of room for adjustment and still have >1-1/2" of thread engagement, so I'll do that.

Two items came up along the way...the Breeze power rack has bellows of two different materials, which I wondered about. Paul's post (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?18591-EdwardBs-Mk4-8674-20th-Anniversary-Build) from his 20th anniversary build thread shows the bellows are different on his rack as well, so I'm moving ahead.

Along the way toward lining up the front wheels, something looked wrong with the rear wheel setup. With the laser level lined up on the rear wheels, the top of the discs looked further away from the center line of the car. Take out the caster camber gauge, stick it on the disc...yup, I very carefully set up the rear with 1/2 deg positive camber, not 1/2 deg negative. At least that's the easiest item to change in the rear alignment, and shouldn't throw off toe-in (provided I set THAT right, which is the first thing I'll check when I get back there). All part of the learning process, and a reminder that checking a 3rd or 4th time can never hurt.

Rack in place:

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/953/42129367251_d4bb498b84_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/27bQ27T)


Passenger side:

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/976/40322530780_e08005a5e9_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/24ravzW)


Driver side:


https://farm1.staticflickr.com/908/42129366661_c28d2a8db7_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/27bQ1WH)

[John Ibele]

It wasn't a big weekend for working on the car; with lots of family time arranged around our youngest's graduation from college. Lots of great memories of time with the family.

But, I have been moving forward on miscellaneous items. I centered the rack and then got the front wheels pointed roughly forward by pulling strings forward from the rear disks and across the front discs. I measured the relative position of the tie rod ends when fully threaded in, to the steering arm. I cut 1/2" off the inner tie rods just to ensure plenty of adjustment room when dialing in front alignment. I was hoping to do front alignment with the frame leveled on floor jacks and the wheels propped up to ride height (to get around the uneven garage floor), but I'm not sure I can do that. I'll have to read up on that part. At any rate, good enough for now.

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1738/41633706564_6b098ee39d_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/26r2CsY)

I picked up a couple 5" steel swaged tubes in anticipation of setting the front wheels up for power steering with ~7 deg caster. The threads were a little tight with the black zinc coating but work fine after a few in / out cycles. Nothing is tightened at this point, I'll torque everything down after doing front alignment.

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1752/42356194991_6c5df9b518_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/27wSz6Z)

I worked on centering the steering wheel (installed temporarily), and realized I couldn't remove the steering column without taking out the mounting bolts for the steering rack, which didn't seem like a great setup. I moved the lower pillow block to the inside of the footbox (common solution, from what I can tell), which isn't as aesthetically appealing but won't show much regardless. Some clearancing is required to get the block to fit next to the pedal box bracket. After that, getting the steering wheel centered with the front wheels pointed forward was fairly easy. I'm not going to lock anything down until I have the wheels on the ground, aligned and pointed straight ahead.

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1755/42356194761_d213c8732d_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/27wSz32)

Also, I picked up coupler nuts and other hardware for the drop tank fix. What's shown in the photo is 3/8"... not the right plan ... back to HD, which has the 7/16" coupler nuts but no 7/16" bolts, then back to Ace, which has 7/16" bolts but not the coupler nuts ... all good now.

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1758/27486408777_69d185ab54_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/HST2HB)

Most significantly, went to talk to a local engine builder last week, toured his shop and talked over ideas, and he'll be getting back to me with rough ballpark estimate w plenty of options to mull over. It will be SBF, stroked, Dart block, built stout but set up for 90% street / cruising / good manners, with occasional autocross and perhaps track time. I was pretty dedicated to the idea of having a carb on top, but I'm mighty tempted by throttle body injection, with the sniper system at a really attractive price point. Lots of good options, as with much of this project you eventually have to just make a choice. And, you can always tell yourself you don't have stop at just one car :rolleyes:

Next up is brake and fuel lines. I need to read up on the relative merits of hard line vs. 6AN line for fuel, since I know both have been used. That's it for now.

[John Ibele]

Here's a update and current status after a long time away.

Last item in terms of front / rear suspension was to install the front sway bar. I had purchased this some time ago from a vendor; there are some similarities with what FFR did on the MKIV update since I bought my kit.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48910028043_641a4ef405_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2hw1Fkz)

I decided I wanted the expanded PS footbox, since I'm going with a small block, and I have two grown >6' tall sons that will want to be in that seat for some extended rides. I transferred all the plans to poster board in full size, fit all the poster board panels until I was satisfied with the fit, then transferred to aluminum and did the bending.

I used a brake similar to the 30" HF model, and it worked okay, although it did bend a bit in the middle when doing panels that used up close to the full width. I also used a 3" hand seamer which was really handy. I just didn't have the hand strength to use the 6" seamer effectively. Its tough to do a long bend consistently with the hand seamer, but even there if you work bit by bit you can get close, then do some adjustments that make the bend look pretty good. The marks on the panel in the second image were my notes for where to adjust the bend I couldn't do in the brake, and had to do with the hand seamer.

I was pretty satisfied with the end result, and it was fun to start figuring out how to fab with aluminum.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48933825942_5a1fd709f5_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2hy7DCb)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48933638436_3bbe920317_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2hy6FTj)

I mounted the gas tank and figured out what to put in place for pump and return. I used Mark's Breeze kit, but I decided I wanted to do hard lines under the car, and he was happy to oblige me with whatever I wanted. The filter / regulator is a common OEM part, and while its a tight fit it does work and shouldn't pinch the flex line when I drop the tank.

https://live.staticflickr.com/4827/46042445994_d8602ab2f5_b.jpg

I have some more tidying up to do before I get the rest of the aluminum in place, and I'll tackle that as the next big item. Before that I want to finish up the steering column and get the rack set.

Before any of that, I decided I'll do a detour and fab a dead pedal for the DS footbox.

I have the older footbox without the bumpouts on either side. I thought quite a bit about fabbing those myself, and just decided I had enough room in the footbox to be comfortable just the way it is. I'm 6 feet, but my feet aren't particularly wide, and even with cross-trainers on (wide tread), I can hit Russ's gas pedal with the middle of my right foot, and have plenty of room for my left foot to rest on a dead pedal to the left of the clutch. So after thinking about it plenty that's my decision and I'm moving on.

I learned how to drive (off road) when I was about 12, on a 1952 Studebaker truck. That was a fun learning curve for a 12-year-old. Dad was a patient teacher. It has (the truck's still in the family, that's another story) a stomp switch for the high beams to the left of the clutch, and I always pictured having the same thing on the floor for my left foot when I built the roadster. So I'll fab the dead pedal so it has room for the stomp switch just above where my foot will rest. I ordered 1/8" aluminum plate for the pedal, which is maybe a bit thicker than it needed to be, but should work just fine.

Here's the bracket I fabbed out of aluminum angle.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48933825417_1595ed2712_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2hy7Dt8)

That's it for now. I'll post a picture or two of the dead pedal when its done.

[John Ibele]

Just a minor update for this week. I finished fabricating the dead pedal:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49010137947_0c014fcdb7_b.jpg

I'll paint the bracket black before installing so that the pedal itself shows without the bracket. I'm pretty pleased with the fit. Here's what it looks like installed:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49009929871_328a3d8c1d_b.jpg

With my foot resting on the dead pedal, the switch is just above my foot, and there's plenty of room to bump the switch without hitting the frame.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49009398318_e00e9cf76f_b.jpg

When my foot is on the clutch, there's also plenty of clearance from the dead pedal, even when my foot is to left of center on the clutch:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49009929881_2fdb47504d_b.jpg

After spraying the bracket black to match the frame, it should be ready to install.

Next up, I'll continue some tidying up before running brake and fuel lines. First item is to add the access panel for the DS footbox to allow servicing the master cylinder / pedal box area. My older MK4 kit doesn't have that, and I can't see doing without it.

[John Ibele]

I've been able to make some more progress over the past few weeks. I got answers to my question (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?33986-DS-Footbox-Access-Panel-Question)about the access panel at the top of the DS footbox from John, Boyd and others. Thanks, guys!

I learned a few things along the way :rolleyes: but the end result looks okay I think.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49068834058_5f62c33fda_b.jpg

I know everyone comes up with their own tools and techniques for aluminum fab. I'm still figuring out how to get where I want to go efficiently and with good results. I've got a double shear for rough cuts - I wish I could use it with a straight edge, but it binds when I try that. I can get close, then finish with a file for straight edges. I got the Eastwood hand nibbler for minor stuff, which is handy. My multi-tool and Dremel also work for certain things. After fabbing the cutout on the top of the DS, I'll get some sanding drums for the hand drill or drill press. Tops on the wish list is probably a combination belt / disk sander.

I also got the cockpit aluminum pretty much finished off. The only panels that didn't fit too well were the rear cockpit corners against the transmission tunnel. My kit was fairly early on in the MK4 era, so they may have refined those panels later. I got them to fit although the tabs don't have full overlap. You can see that where the corner pieces meet the small center panel to the rear of the transmission tunnel. Structurally its fine and lays just the way it should, so I think okay. Everything else seemed to line up really well, just a few adjustments and trims here and there.

And, the holes are still rough - I'll clean them up with a twist of my 9/16" drill bit or dovetail bit before riveting anything. Let me know if you see anything else I need to attend to.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49068834893_e29be38528_b.jpg

I have a couple of questions. One is a general workmanship question. On the panel that goes under the door, the welds on the 'X' part of the frame don't allow the panel to sit flat against the frame. Not a huge deal, could leave as is with a 1/8" bump, and only I would know its there once carpet is in place. But still. Common problem I think and I'm happy to do a quick touch with the angle grinder and then touch up with POR15. Question is, how much does it weaken the structure if I do that in that spot? Its not exactly a crumple zone :confused: Its hard to get a good photo so I hope the explanation is clear. Here's the best I could do:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49069563467_ac581ab1c3_b.jpg


At some point I'm going to want to button up the steering and Loctite the steering column where it engages with the rack. Probably after I paint the DS footbox front and run brake and fuel lines. Here's what I've done so far:



followed Mark's instructions for centering the Breeze rack
trimmed the inner tie rods 1/2" based on the engagement with the tie rod ends
turned the tie rod ends in the same number of turns on each side and checked what toe-in would look like. Similar on each side.
did rough adjustment of toe in after bolting everything together ... the inner tie rods were adjusted within a turn of each other, which I think is confirmation that I did okay with centering the rack
with wheels pointing straight ahead and with centered rack, found the splines which allow the steering wheel to be centered. Marked with paint marker (doesn't show in the photo, ignore the red and blue paint).


Let me know if it seems like I missed anything there.

I think I don't need to grind a flat in the splines with the rack I have: with the coupler engaged all the way, the set screw seems to fall in the center of the necked down area that goes all the way around the circumference of the input shaft. So although the flat doesn't align with where the set screw lands, it doesn't seem to matter (because the set screw will land in the necked down area).

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49029926297_2222b892d4_b.jpg

Okay, questions:



am I thinking right about the set screw in this case?
is there a reason to wait for until some later point to semi-permanently button this up (with blue Loctite)?
Loctite on set screw and jam nut only? Or also on splines themselves?
the rest of the steering column ... lots of button head cap screws. Beyond making sure they're snug, do I need to do any other safety checks?


Sorry for all the beginner questions, but I just can't feel comfortable skipping steps with safety items.

[cob427sc]

Your build looks great - although I can't imagine stretching it out over all that time. I'd forget everything and what was left to be done. The set screw will fall in the reduced neck area. Just Loctite the set screw. It's best, after everything is complete, to loctite all the set screws.

[John Ibele]

Yeah, its just a long time, and I know most of these long time builds don't get done. To emphasize your point, I just spent way too much of the weekend trying to figure out where the e-brake and a growing list of other items went to ... up way too late, then lie awake wondering what I missed ... next day, open up a box I swear I had looked in before, there are the missing items, with the inventory sheets carefully attached to each one, but never a photo record. I had done the complete inventory and taken photos of all the inventory sheets but not those. So hopefully the worst of the time-lag-induced miscues are behind me. It sure is more satisfying when you can head back in within a day or so of your last session, and not spend time figuring out where the heck you are in the build.

Every slow builder has their own story about how life happens. In our case, finished raising 2+ kids in addition to our own 3, and looked after various members of the extended family. We have the means and the aptitude (well, at least the wife does!) - and in the end, very satisfying work. So a clear priority over the car for some period of time.

But, all good now on the build front. Fun to get back to it. Thanks for the answer on Loctite / steering column!

[Fixit]

Hey! Good to hear from you...


On the panel that goes under the door, the welds on the 'X' part of the frame don't allow the panel to sit flat against the frame. Not a huge deal, could leave as is with a 1/8" bump, and only I would know its there once carpet is in place. But still. Common problem I think and I'm happy to do a quick touch with the angle grinder and then touch up with POR15. Question is, how much does it weaken the structure if I do that in that spot? Its not exactly a crumple zone
A few "love taps" with a ball-peen on either side of the weld bead will conform the aluminum around the hump and get it to fit flat... as you said, it'll be covered with carpet, and you won't break the integrity of the paint or deal with grinding the weld.


I think I don't need to grind a flat in the splines with the rack I have: with the coupler engaged all the way, the set screw seems to fall in the center of the necked down area that goes all the way around the circumference of the input shaft. So although the flat doesn't align with where the set screw lands, it doesn't seem to matter (because the set screw will land in the necked down area).
In this situation with a splined shaft with a recess... the splines are doing the work, holding the shaft in alignment and transferring the twisting force. The set screw is really just taking up the slop/clearance in the assembly and preventing the coupler from sliding fore & aft. A drop of Blue on the set screw, tighten it, and be done.

[John Ibele]

Excellent, thanks John! By the way, do I get a ride in that roadster when the weather turns back around? The only thing I'll have on the road at that point is a '52 Studebaker pickup, which ... rides like you'd expect. But, when its time to drop the engine / trans in place in the roadster, expect a call.

Cheers,

-- John

[Fixit]

By the way, do I get a ride in that roadster when the weather turns back around?
By that time it'll be back home from being "Kleinerized" and YES... you will get a ride!

[John Ibele]

Oh, that's right, I forgot one highlight from the weekend.

Sure enough, the Ford 8.8 with the Eaton Truetrac in it takes 2 quarts of gear oil ... well, maybe just a little less.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49093621412_86c83c74bb_b.jpg

[John Ibele]

Not a huge update but I have been making slow but steady progress over the past several weeks.

I decided to do the firewall in thicker .090" 6061 aluminum for greater stiffness, and it turned out pretty well. I'm planning on a mechanical throttle linkage and this should provide a sturdier surface to mount it to. Went slow and easy with the jigsaw and finished with a file ... not as fast as having a combination disk / belt sander, which is on my shopping list, but in the end the piece turned out just as well.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49447803867_63630b6cbb_b.jpg

I also fabricated the bracket for the brake reservoirs and painted it. I started out with some of the 0.125" aluminum I had used for the dead pedal, and in addition to being more substantial than I needed, it was much too thick for me to bend with the equipment I have. I could have fabbed something with a flat plate of 0.125" thick aluminum and some 90 deg channel, but that would have required more fasteners and I was after a cleaner look. The 0.090" was at the limits of what I could bend, but I was able to get the bend to the radius I wanted. It should place the reservoirs horizontal when in the car.

I used Prekote and abrasive pad to prep the aluminum and followed up with spray can primer and semi-gloss black enamel. I was pretty happy with how it turned out.

I saw Paul's note from his last build on the 1/8" NPT threads on the reservoirs. I was able to do a couple turns on each fitting by hand before using the wrench, and another 2-1/2 turns before things got really tight, so I think I'm okay there.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49446663158_4843fc7966_b.jpg

I got Mark's Breeze kit for putting the battery in front. No photos yet but as always, its a high quality set of parts with complete instructions, delivered quickly. Although stainless, I decided to paint it black to have it visually out of the way, with the exception of the stainless rods on each side.

Lastly, I finally got around to opening up Russ's drop trunk kit and got that put in place. The only thing that would have made things easier on this part of the build would have been to clamp wood backers temporarily on the PS and rear sides where there are cutouts for the frame, to keep them straight when measuring and drilling. I found that in time - partially because I did cut the opening in the trunk 1/2" undersize, per Russ's instructions, before cutting to the final size. After some careful measuring and aligning, followed by finish filing, I drilled a few holes to hold the 'box' with clekos, and then drilled the rest.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49437626922_3095c9a5ba_b.jpg

Last but not least, I've been keeping up with my engine builder as he moves from machining the block to rotating assembly to ... all the stuff I need to be picking out. I'm going for kind of an old-school, workmanlike look, with not a lot of polish. But, a rock solid reliable engine with a bit of get up 'n go. Dart 302 block stroked to 347, Scat crank and forged internals, roller hydraulic lifters and roller rockers, mounted on AFR heads. Kinda fun picking out the right combination of components to finish off the top and the front dress.

When I purchased the kit, throttle body fuel injection was not as refined as it is now, and I had decided to go with a carb setup, and got the full length 4 into 4 headers. But I kept an eye on throttle body fuel injection as it developed and finally decided to go this direction. Both can work fine, both can cause problems, but I just decided that if I needed to do a deep dive to resolve something at the end of the build, I'd rather spend time with code, sensors and electrical diagnosis rather than rebuilding a carb, changing jets, and handling fuel. Good opportunity to learn something new. So Sniper EFI it is. I got the fuel tank set up with a combined filter / regulator in the rear, and was ready to move on.

So now with the choice of using EFI comes the question of how to handle the O2 sensor location. Place it somewhere on the header and use information from just 1 cylinder to determine what's happening with all 8 ... based on reading the forum, some have gotten it to work, but not all, and it didn't seem like a great idea to me. Could go a different route with two different and beautiful pieces - GP stainless headers or Gas N stainless headers, which have a 4 into 1 into 4 arrangement, and the capability to mount the O2 sensor at the top of the pipe, which is ideally where Holley wants it. But while appealing in terms of sensor accuracy, didn't make much sense to me in terms of exhaust flow. Carb / EFI ... EFI / Carb ... wake up honey, you're having a bad dream ...

Finally, read some more threads and convinced myself that having the O2 in the collector in the side pipe, pointing slightly down to avoid the body, should work just fine. Condensation shouldn't be a problem at anywhere more than just the bottom of the pipe, and mounting just slightly below horizontal, or even midway between the inboard side and the bottom should be good enough to stay out of collected moisture. And, still above the bottom of the frame, so out of harm's way in that respect. That seemed like a compromise, but one I could live with. So, moving ahead.

My first look at the rotating assembly ...

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49391843167_b68a3ec1ee_b.jpg

Ken flipping the engine over ...

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49391643611_e2decaae37_b.jpg

... and a few days later, with engine paint, ready for heads, and ready for me to bring in valve covers, pulleys, alternator, PS pump ...

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49437627152_a0e3a94367_b.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49437403401_f621736024_b.jpg

Pretty fun, and a good motivator to keep up on the car end.

[John Ibele]

A long time since my last post ... pre-pandemic, get everybody at work set up for work from home, scurry to get our youngest back from teaching English in Japan before things get locked down, lost Mom after 95 years of a great life, get in to console Dad before the building gets locked down, then George Floyd (happened about 3 miles from here), run a safe house for the kids since they live too close, ash raining down on the front yard ... yeesh! What the heck next ?!

But ... great opportunity to take breaks in the garage and turn my mind to something else: work on the car. What a fantastic break from everything.

I took on setting up the heater install next, and had the same problem others have had with the provided template not matching the actual part all that well. I modified the provided template and finally made a new one, which worked much better.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50163195047_25f51fe7d1_b.jpg

I'm gradually getting better at fabrication with aluminum and the cutouts were pretty straightforward. I've been using the Fixit tip of replacing the drill bit in any hole saw with a solid rod, which gives a much better edge to the hole - thanks, Fixit!

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50162315023_a0193bccf2_b.jpg

I held up the heater on the installed firewall to get the best placement for the wipers, and drilled the mounting holes for the wiper assembly.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50162850191_6f88d91c52_b.jpg

I found a U-bolt / pipe bracket of just the right size to mount the wiper motor, and wrapped the motor with some sheet rubber for a better grip. It worked out really well.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50162944546_898a782b3b_b.jpg

I decided to fabricate a backing plate for the inside of the firewall to spread the load, although this is perhaps overkill with the thicker firewall I fabbed.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50162855911_d6e06b2739_b.jpg

After that it was time to start tackling brake lines. Virtually everything is a first-time experience for me on this car, and the brake lines are no exception. I started with a pretty OCD-dominated approach :rolleyes:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50163102237_6b618c7e5a_b.jpg

But, it helped with the learning and wrapping my brain around the best approach. I actually found just having a few samples of bends was really handy. Holding them up to the brake line at the right place and making marks seemed to work pretty well. I'll skip any photos of brake lines now; I'll do a more complete job in a separate post and folks can let me know if I visibly goofed anything up.

[John Ibele]

Meanwhile the engine was moving forward and actually wrapping up. Working with a local builder isn't the cheapest path, but that decision is over and done with and I'm very happy with the end result. I got to work with a great guy who did a top notch job, and it was a lot of fun going back and forth on build details and component selection. Having a unique build that you had a hand in shaping is part of the satisfaction.

I wanted a workmanlike look with not much bling, and the look is exactly what I was striving for.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50162315858_5e219da285_b.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50162853616_d94f337a25_b.jpg

With the engine done, time to visit the dyno, another new experience. Great guys who were fun to work with, and very happy with the end result. We started with a standard Holley carb because the builder didn't want to take any chances with break-in. I understand that perfectly. After that was done and some initial pulls completed, we switched over to the Hyperspark distributor and Sniper EFI. We had some snags with a breakup in timing right at 4000 RPM every time. Then rough idle that finally quit. No worries about the engine itself; that had proven solid, it was just timing breaking up. Wait a few minutes, start it again, everything fine until the pull hit 4000 RPM. There's a head-scratcher, plus its Friday afternoon, what to tell the customer, leave it on the stand and puzzle it out on Monday? Finally called Holley and asked for advice, since the problem seemed electrical / possible RFI related. Spark plug wires were carefully chosen to minimize RFI, but all components somewhat haphazardly dangling temporarily in the dyno cell. Then we saw the shop standard MSD spark box mounted right there by the engine ... Holley rep saw no problem with swapping out the Hyperspark charge box for the MSD box temporarily. After that, smooth pull to 6k RPM ... nice consistent torque and HP still rising at 6k RPM. Wonderful. And no interest in exploring territory north of there ... heck, I'll see how often I push it above 5k as it is.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50162316483_a0a2720632_b.jpg


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50163100717_da107117fb_b.jpg

So, very happy with the end result and with the experience. Holley said they would make things right with the Hyperspark / Sniper setup when the time came to fire up the engine in the car, and frankly, I'm not too concerned. There was plenty of room for improvement in how we had things mounted, and everything points to RFI glitches at this point. I'll follow the manual's guide to install and see where I end up. As for the engine itself, its proven its good to go.

Next up will be paint on the engine compartment panels. I cleaned and sprayed with gray hammertone, and followed that up with clear coat ... not happy at all with results. More on that in the next post, whenever that is.

[Fixit]

Hey!! Good to see you out in the garage again!

[John Ibele]

Hey John - yep pluggin' away at my snail's pace, hacking away the best I can. Fun. Not sure if its as fun as driving it yet, but I guess I say that pleasure's still in front of me. I have to check your thread and see that ride looks like Kleinerized and all. Would be good to have a direct viewing at some point!

[Fixit]

Still in GelCoat... trip to Indiana is looking like early October.

[John Ibele]

I spent a lot of time trying to get satisfactory finish with rattle can hammertone paint on the footbox panels, with mixed results. Read what I could find on YouTube and other forums, did a number of trials, too thin and the hammer tone appearance wouldn't show up, too thick and it would look good for a while and then by the time it dried, it would have a matte & uneven finish. I finally got a few panels to look exactly how I wanted using fairly heavy loading on a horizontal surface, but others would just have problems ... very frustrating. Took a few panels to a local body shop and showed him both good and almost good panels. His take - he wouldn't be able to reliably do better, and thought they looked okay. Well, that's not what I wanted to hear. Back to more hypothesis / trial / repeat ...

Finally after shooting one panel and then carefully lifting it from the bottom to move it a bit, I realized the panel was freezing cold. As Zylol flashes off I'm expecting it takes a lot of heat with it, and the panel and paint that are left behind are substantially below room temperature. Panels that I shot were mostly done above 50% RH, and its recommended to shoot below that RH level. What seemed to confirm it: so-so panels were fine on the high spots, with poor (matte) finish in the dips. So a few panels are on, and I'll wait to shoot the last few panels until the garage heater kicks in and starts to dry things out.

No worries, there's always something else to work on, so I switched to finishing brake lines and opening up the box with the wiring harness. For the brakes, no new ground, just following what others have done. I'll post pictures so anyone can chime in with anything that doesn't look right.

From the DS footbox ...

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50177480677_7f3531e236_b.jpg

... through the front panel (one which turned out well) ...

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50350034086_a6fa0665e6_b.jpg

... down to the LF wheel ...

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50176690353_6615843678_b.jpg

... across the front on the X tube ...

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50350034256_ab4e93a3a1_b.jpg

... and around to the RF wheel:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50176688303_08b0eebee4_b.jpg

[John Ibele]

For the rear brakes, again not plowing any new ground. I came down the inside of the DS footbox ...

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50176687028_15de838e02_b.jpg

... back up behind the cockpit ...

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50177223066_edd6db9dbf_b.jpg

... hook up to the LR wheel ...

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50177222166_2e22b85a6c_b.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50177221396_9ef4500c53_b.jpg

... and across to the RR wheel:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50176683518_b8d9630fae_b.jpg

Now its time for bleeding brakes, more on that in the next post. Am I missing anything? Look okay? Safety items make me nervous.

[Fman]

Looking good John, you do some really nice work on those fuel and brake lines!

[John Ibele]

Looking good John, you do some really nice work on those fuel and brake lines!


Thanks, Fman! Picked up brake fluid, tubing and check valve over the weekend, so I'll know if I did anything wrong in the next couple of days.

[mark jones]

Great post and love the photos
You mention Mark Breeze drop trunk box, where do you find that and what do they cost?
I've also read another post mentioning a similar box for a battery instillation, are you familiar with that?

[mark jones]

Great job you are doing here. Most impressive to me. I'm in the process of getting the pieces together to build one. Also over thinking everything.
So please excuse the questions, what are these copper sleeved pins sticking out of the sheet metal, are they rivets that haven't been set yet?
Also all the brake lines and grommets and line mounting clips, are they included in the parts kit?

[John Ibele]

Great job you are doing here. Most impressive to me. I'm in the process of getting the pieces together to build one. Also over thinking everything.
So please excuse the questions, what are these copper sleeved pins sticking out of the sheet metal, are they rivets that haven't been set yet?
Also all the brake lines and grommets and line mounting clips, are they included in the parts kit?

Hey Mark - glad to help in any way I can. To answer your questions, you can look up Russ Thompson for the drop trunk, which is a great way to get some more storage space or room for your travel tools. He also has a turn signal kit which works well with the Roadster. For the battery, check out Breeze Automotive, which has an extensive catalog of options for how to spend even more money after you spend money on your kit. Both Russ and Mark are solidly established vendors and solid human beings who provide great service to the FFR community.

Related to your 'overthinking everything' comment ... that's pretty common. Before I bought the kit, I had a detailed spreadsheet of components and costs. And I actually stressed out about it. What I was forgetting (or hadn't learned yet!) was that ... I'm slow. Famously slow. Mine is a 2012-vintage kit. I could make excuses, but why do I need to? I worked, traveled, finished raising kids, took care of a couple 90-year-olds, had plenty of fun times with the wife and family, and still had fun making (really slow) progress on the car. And along the way, totally forgot about the budget. I'm not wealthy, just slowly spending money on a hobby, with an occasional bump. If I went back to the spreadsheet now it would be for entertainment more than anything else. I'm not saying don't do one ... do it if it makes you happy, and it'll still be good entertainment later :rolleyes:

As for the 'copper sleeved pins' ... those are cleco fasteners, and you need those. They are spring-loaded, and the 'push pin' at the end is activated with a special cleco pliers. Cleco's are invaluable for temporarily fastening two panels together or fastening a panel to the frame, until you're ready to do the final riveting. Aircraft Spruce is one vendor (their catalog is good reading in its own right), but there are others. You'll put each panel on and off several times by the time you finally do the final riveting. For the most common size you'll need 25-50 or more depending on how many you like to use and how you sequence your build.

Continue to cruise around the forum and read more build threads to get an idea of the wide variety of build skills and approaches there are out there. Everyone covers something slightly different in their build threads, and does things in a slightly different way. And chime in with questions in the build threads or in the main Roadster forum. You'll never find a friendlier or more helpful bunch of folks to answer your questions and share what they know. Good luck!

[Fixit]

Looking very nice John!!
No issues or concerns with your brake line routing or bending - it's beautiful work.

[John Ibele]

Hey, thanks John! I appreciate the experienced set of eyes. I almost texted you this weekend as the beginner mistakes were mounting.

The pressure bleeder showed up on the front step on Saturday morning, so bleeding the brakes seemed like a logical thing to do next. Bench bleeding the cylinders was easy, just used a short length of brake line connected to 1/4" flex hose to route each cylinder back to its reservoir, and pumped the brake until the bubbles were out of the system.

Then things got tougher ... first, I had hooked up the pressure bleeder to each reservoir using the CNC cap I had found on eBay with the built-in schrader valve, just to see if both systems held pressure. Both front and back had held pressure without a problem. Turns out, that's because I had clamped the bare hose from the pressure bleeder to the schrader valve, and schrader valves don't respond to air pressure (should have remembered that), they need the pin to actually be physically depressed. Some head scratching before finding that out, but no problem, removed the schrader valve and replaced with an edelman-style brass fitting. But I already had brake fluid in the system at this point, so no chance to do the air pressure check first the right way. I figured I'd forge ahead and deal with any problems with leaky fittings if they showed up. Open up the right rear bleeder valve ... nothing happening, no flow at all. System still sitting at 5 psi ... what the heck ... after a fair amount of head scratching, checked the check valve on the cheapy AutoZone bleeder hose ... frozen. Ditched that and replaced with simple 1/4" id hose, and everything's working right.

Turns out the most I needed to do was snug up a few fittings, with the exception of the last place where you really want to deal with brake fluid ... the connections to the master cylinders. Wrapped as many shop rags as possible around the cylinders, pulled the lines out, inspected, cleaned, reseated, retightened ... everything looks okay, no leaks after bleeding all 4 brakes and standing on the pedal for a bit. Only nagging issue is a DS front brake which doesn't seem to release all the way, but that seems to be a different issue ... I'll see if something got behind a pad or I just didn't seat them right.

So in the end, a bit wiser and with a few practical items to remember for next time. Par for the course for a first time builder, I think. Onward!

[John Ibele]

I mentioned earlier in the thread about the difficulties I had getting a finish I was happy with using hammertone paint. Keep in mind this is Rustoleum rattlecan paint, so nothing fancy. But I got a few good examples that had me going back and trying again. After waiting for the humidity to come down as the garage heater started kicking in this fall, I finally got the last panels done to my satisfaction. Here's one of the better early examples from the DS footbox:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50485879257_116bb2e70a_b.jpg

What I was after was the deep separation that makes hammertone pop, but with a lot of clear finish floating over the top. I found that you do have to put the paint down pretty thick, which means ideally the surface is horizontal so the paint doesn't start to sag. But, there were enough other factors that I didn't have nailed down so it still wasn't a 100% guaranteed process even at the end ... just multiple tries on some panels.

Here's the engine bay ready to go (with weird light ... tried to get as much on it as possible, to limit the ISO setting on the camera ... still doesn't capture it as well as the previous closeup):

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50486000747_4a006ac789_b.jpg

If there's ever another build in my future it won't happen this way again. I'll be happy to head to the custom powder coater who's done a good job on my other parts, plop down my $600 or whatever, and have him do his thing. Having said that, I finally did get the result I wanted and I think it looks perfectly fine. Pretty excited to leave this chapter behind me, move on to buttoning up the fuel line and gas tank, and then turn my sights to wiring.

[John Ibele]

I've been able to get some time in over the last week to work on the hard fuel line, which is now in. For the 3/8" line, I used an OTC bender which taxed my aging biceps to the limit ... but, could get it done. The benders also could scratch through the coating on the AGS Poly-armor steel line that I used pretty easily, so it took some practice to get neat bends without any scratching.

Starting from the rear, I brought the line all the way back to just above the front edge of the tank, since my regulator / filter sits on top of the tank, and I'll only use enough flex line to drop the tank. Also, I'll be using Sniper EFI, but since the regular is right at the tank, the return line is right there as well. So I only have one line going to the front of the car. Here's the view of the back of the line:


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50516497633_2318a5e25b_b.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50517212801_a7a1d2eeee_b.jpg

The side view going down to the 4" round:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50517212761_c5af9f0ff3_b.jpg

Then forward on the outside, as far up as I could:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50517384522_af8a23f1cb_b.jpg

Then up and following the inside panel of the PS footbox.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50517212811_ef6a207a53_b.jpg

I actually enjoyed doing the brake and fuel lines once I got the hang of it. The Let-lok fittings were easy to work with to get to AN compatible connections on each end. I'll make up flex lines for each end and then pressure test just to make sure I did everything right.

[JB in NOVA]

Impressive! Someday I'd like to be able to run fuel lines as cleanly as this.

[John Ibele]

Thanks JB. But while you say that, you also have a really impressive looking car that's seen more change in weeks than mine has seen in years ... so there's that :rolleyes:

And, thanks for the detailed build thread with photos, questions and discoveries. I've gotten a lot from it (along with serious motivation to move a little faster!). Threads from experienced builders are great for ideas and examples to follow (and build quality to strive for), but first-time builder threads are great for solutions a lot of problems that first-time builders struggle with - plus their own share of good ideas. Reading a mix of both is a great way to figure where to go next.

And, people read 'em even if they don't respond. For example, from your build thread:



post #36 (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?35795-JB-in-NOVA-s-MK4-build-Final-preparations-for-engine-start&p=410660&viewfull=1#post410660) ... I have a note to get to that this week ...
post #43 (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?35795-JB-in-NOVA-s-MK4-build-Final-preparations-for-engine-start&p=411250&viewfull=1#post411250) ... you'll see closeups of my rack in post #13 (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?27168-John-s-Mk4-Build-Thread-Fuel-Line-Installed&p=325424&viewfull=1#post325424) thru 15 ... I didn't see this as a problem, light contact and not much travel, should be okay.
post #50 (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?35795-JB-in-NOVA-s-MK4-build-Final-preparations-for-engine-start&p=411861&viewfull=1#post411861) ... I asked a related question and got an answer from Fixit in post #20 (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?27168-John-s-Mk4-Build-Thread-Fuel-Line-Installed&p=388801&viewfull=1#post388801) ... hope that helps.


Good luck with the final prep for first start! Got the jitters yet?

[John Ibele]

I got some quality time in yesterday, although not a huge amount to show for it. I ordered some tools for finishing up the flex fuel lines and pressure testing, and ordered some electrical tools to get ready for digging into the wiring harness. I got the rear harness approximately in place and put in tie wrap anchors to route around the gas tank and the drop trunk.

Also, I got some blowups of the electrical schematics so I have more room for scribbling and notes (and so my aging eyes can actually read the thing!).

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50529671387_ca922ce9b3_b.jpg

[JB in NOVA]

Also, I got some blowups of the electrical schematics so I have more room for scribbling and notes (and so my aging eyes can actually read the thing!).

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50529671387_ca922ce9b3_b.jpg

That is an excellent idea. I practically made myself blind studying those schematics. I've gotten in the habit of wearing TWO pairs of reading glasses while staring at it. My wife says I look like an insane person. But I've really enjoyed the wiring aspect of this project. Lots of immediate gratification -- wire it, test it . . . rewire it . . . re-test it, etc.

[John Ibele]

That is an excellent idea. I practically made myself blind studying those schematics. I've gotten in the habit of wearing TWO pairs of reading glasses while staring at it. My wife says I look like an insane person. But I've really enjoyed the wiring aspect of this project. Lots of immediate gratification -- wire it, test it . . . rewire it . . . re-test it, etc.

I think the first few sessions with the schematic and harness lasted about 30 minutes for me ... stare at the RF manual, stare at the maze of wires, stare at the manual ... head back to the house. Plenty of reading threads and posts, a few short sessions, and now its starting to come into focus.

[John Ibele]

While I'm getting panels in the cockpit riveted in place in the evenings this week, I've been reading build threads and posts related to the next chapter: wiring. I got this far with the wiring harness a few weeks ago:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50350193892_1b474019a5_b.jpg

That was enough for me to realize I was eventually going to strip back a lot of the harness, lighten in some spots, and add wires in others. And to do that I would need to understand where each individual wire goes and what it does, and the basics of how the circuit works. Deflating to think about in the first few 30 minute sessions, but completely reasonable once I thought about it for a bit (like this would be the first part of the car that I slapped in place without understanding it??). Just go one bit at a time. In other words, understand the small part you're about to work on, then work on just that. Then repeat.

Based on what I've learned so far, I think it's going to make sense to work from both directions (the 'from' and the 'to') so that both ends of the harness wiring are defined and physically on the car. That way the harness has some real work to do (connecting things), and I have a much better sense of how to route it and lay things out.

I've got the front and rear wiring harnesses in place, and I'll probably get the lights out to give the front & rear harnesses something to plug into eventually. I can add a few wires to the rear harness for a trunk courtesy light. I'll lay out the dash, which will be fun and something mechanical that I know how to do. I may also get the engine / trans dropped in place, so the sending units are all in their final locations.

Anyway, that's my plan for now, but if there's a better way I'm all ears. Just doing my best to hack away at it.

As for getting started, I know everyone who uses the forum has their own ways of gathering information from it ... and there's a ton out there. I'm an engineer by training, but while the basic principles are old hat, the practical parts (tooling, materials, tools, technique) are still completely new to me. I had to remind myself about the difference between an insulated and uninsulated connector, and where you would use each. The difference between a ratcheting and non-ratcheting crimper. Which loom material is best. (I got the simple Klein tool for insulated and uninsulated terminals, I'll so some practice to verify I can do crimps where the wire doesn't pull out and the terminal isn't wrecked. If that's not satisfactory, I'm not out much money or time.)

So if it helps at all, I gathered the most helpful links I found on the forum in case they help anyone else. The most helpful one was the post in response to a request for help from a first time builder (can't remember whose post ... ) which offered the reminder about knowing what every wire does, and where its going, and how the circuit works, and take it one step at a time. On the one hand, really obvious. On the other hand, the right reminder at the right time ... that we're the ones that got ourselves into this mess, we're the only ones that are going to get us out, and we're responsible for ourselves and our own safety. Part of what we wanted from the very beginning! Anyway, that one set me straight.

Oh, heck, more more small diversion ... reminds my of my favorite quote from one of my favorite engineers, someone kinda famous back in his day, Paul MacCready:

"Sometimes if you're lucky and you choose the right goals, it's enough just to know that something worked. I am not a philosopher, nor am I intellectually gifted. There are lots of people around with more talent. You can do all kinds of things if you just plunge ahead. It doesn't mean you're any good at them, but you can be good enough."

I just think that's a wonderfully positive thing to say about human potential. Gets me out of thinking mode and into doing mode every time. (And yeah, he was good enough, as it turns out.)

Okay, links I found helpful:



Questions about electrical ground. (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?32126-Battery-negative-side-dedicated-ground-cable-vs-chassis-for-ground&p=366755&viewfull=1#post366755) I think I'll follow this approach (sorry, lots of quotes from a certain frequent poster & frequent builder :rolleyes:), make the welded steel frame a solid ground by establishing connections at multiple points. In the four corners I'll likely give the lights an alternate path to ground by adding a wire from ground at the terminal directly to ground at the corner of the frame, and also leave the harness ground wire hooked up. Correct me if that doesn't make sense. Matches the suggestions I got in build school years ago (and no, my memory's not that good ... I took notes :cool:)
Starter Connections (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?30138-Connecting-Wires-to-the-Starter-Alternator&p=344095&viewfull=1#post344095). I ordered a terminal block, and will mount it on the frame behind the dash.
More on starter connections (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?26537-Starter-connection-question). Okay, good to know. Should I use a main disconnect? There's a long thread on the merits pro and con. I didn't attach it here. Lots of strong opinion from very experienced folks that a main disconnect, unless you need it for racing, just adds needless complexity. But plenty who do it. After some thought ... I decided I do want one, for the convenience, and will mount it in the typical position on the 'A' panel. I may build a cubby box in this spot, so then the switch would be inside the cubby, but I think that's okay.
Clean ways to handle start and main power (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?26822-Looking-for-a-cleaner-way-to-run-the-starter-and-main-power-leads&p=306323#post306323). Lots of good stuff in here, post #2 and the follow up are helpful.
Dash Wiring (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?23775-Dash-wiring). Good start to understanding how to tackle what goes behind the dash.
Ignition switch current (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?16028-Eliminating-the-remote-solenoid-in-Ron-Francis-Wiring). Not sure I need this, but there are multiple examples of it, and as these things get easier, probably not hard or time-consuming to just include. Leave that decision for later.
RF Main Disconnect (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?37162-Wiring-Battery-Disconnect). Shows a typical spot for a disconnect switch, and the boots included with the Ron Francis switch. I ordered one.
Dash components, getting started (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?32157-Questions-on-Dash-components-and-layout). A great question from Yama-bro with some really good information in response. I too have a blank dash and plan to lay out the position of all my gauges. Bookmark, save for later.
Dash wiring approach (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?26179-Ron-Francis-Dash-question). Jeff's note from the other forum is worth following after all the gauges are resting in their proper spots on the dash, and its time to work on dash wiring.
Getting started (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?15309-Main-electrical-harness-Mk4-questions&p=164441&viewfull=1#post164441). This is the one that got me thinking about where to go next after laying a rats nest of wires down on my just-completed bench bleeding job on the master cylinders. What's this about a mega fuse? Did more research and decided it was the last item which could fry multiple components in my car, so good insurance for not much time or money. Ordered one.
Power for accessories (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?33345-Power-for-accessories). Good question from Terry produced a good thread for background on this topic. Paul's post #4 (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?33345-Power-for-accessories&p=379970&viewfull=1#post379970) and post #15 (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?33345-Power-for-accessories&p=380371&viewfull=1#post380371) convinces me I can add a trunk light to the courtesy light circuit without much trouble at all.
Nice Pic of Bus Bar and Fuse Block (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?26738-Jimland%92s-MK4-Roadster-Build-9237&p=319742&viewfull=1#post319742)
Alternate Kill Switch Locations? (https://www.ffcars.com/threads/edwardb%EF%BF%BDs-gen-3-type-65-coyote-coupe-59-build.619602/post-6034076) This is from the coupe, I decided there's no better place than the A panel in roadster.
Battery cable routing (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?21101-Battery-Cable-Routing). Good images / examples of how to get the power where it needs to go. Karlos did a super clean job on his build.


There we go ... now I have 'em all in one place for myself, and hopefully they're helpful for a few other folks too.

[JB in NOVA]

Yep, this forum is an absolute goldmine of information. I keep a running Word document with links to the forum for things I know will be important going forward. It has saved me a lot of time trying to figure out "where did I see that?"

[460.465USMC]

Thanks for putting this list together in one place, John! I will take a note of it. I use a Google Sheet for my notes with columns for builder name, post number, and the meat of the info. I want to capture for future reference. Sometimes I copy/paste the URL for the specific post for easy navigation in the future. Thanks again for sharing!

[John Ibele]

Thanks for putting this list together in one place, John! I will take a note of it. I use a Google Sheet for my notes with columns for builder name, post number, and the meat of the info. I want to capture for future reference. Sometimes I copy/paste the URL for the specific post for easy navigation in the future. Thanks again for sharing!

I’m glad if it can be a help to anybody. As a first time builder, I can’t imagine building the car without all the friendly, helpful expertise here on the forum!

[John Ibele]

I got in a few hours over the weekend, and got to focus a bit more on the wiring harness and dash. I was overwhelmed for the first few sessions focused on the wiring, but definitely feel like I'm making some forward progress now. Progress for the weekend:


I got all the main harness portions approximately where they will sit behind the dash. To get there, I removed a fair amount of tape and loom to gain flexibility and get parts to 'sit' where I wanted them to go.
The front harness is in place, and I removed some loom so I could bring the PS light / fan portion across to the PS side right where the upper mount for the radiator is. 2012 kit, remember ... I think this may be standard on newer harnesses. Questions that came up:

Where precisely is the best route to take this branch over to the PS side? I figured I'd leave this for now, until I have the radiator in place.
What is best practice for splicing in a new section of wire? To move the 'Y' in the front harness further up, I needed to cut the ground wire for the PS portion, and will need to splice in a new / longer section of wire. I'm not a fan of butt connectors, and I'm assuming wrap / solder / shrink tubing is probably best, but I'll need input on this.


I dieted the Hot Rod harness and will put shrink tubing on all dead ends when I have the harness back out of the car.
I ran into these questions before setting the harness aside:

Do I need the connectors and the 'Y' in the alternator portion of the harness if I have a single wire alternator
How much length will I need on the portion leading to the bus bar I'm installing on the fire wall, seems like this can be plenty shorter
Ditto for ignition portion
Where to drill additional holes into the engine bay ... middle of firewall, enlarge the hole in the DS footbox.



I figured most of these questions would answer themselves when I had the destinations for all the wires more firmly identified on car. Current placement looks like this:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50583442003_38fde9fba3_b.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50584302362_933b70dfc6_b.jpg

I also got out the blank dash and got a very first look at what gauge placement might look like:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50583440528_d7de0576ec_b.jpg

Even these three aren't much more than slapped into place, in a spot where I can see them clearly. But, very satisfying to see the mockup through the steering wheel.

I didn't get as much done as I had planned on, partially because this showed up in the driveway in the middle of the afternoon:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50584183221_a3c01b70a7_b.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50584302782_0f48719129_b.jpg

Of course, that required an extended cruise with the buddy who's finishing up the car, followed by some rattle-chasing after the ride, and a tour of the roadster. The blue / gray combination on that car is just stunning. Fun day!

[copythat]

Thank you for the list!

[John Ibele]

Just a minor update. While I'm waiting for supplies to come in for wiring and finishing the dashboard, I began dashboard layout starting with a pdf file and a number of saved images from other builders. I started with my own ideas about placement, but made a lot of changes in line with what others have done once I saw what things actually looked like on the dash. This is after several iterations of laying things out and wiping the slate clean. I started with lights to the left of the steering wheel, swapped it out for the hazard switch, and eventually moved everything away from the DS door. I eventually ended up with knobs on the bottom row, and switches above that. I still need to settle on the final layout for the glovebox. I'll probably set the body on the frame to double check how things look on the dash and stare at it for a day or two before I finally commit with drilling and covering. Also, you'll notice that unlike what other kits have seen, my dash actually is even with the top of the hoop on the ends and low in the middle. Not sure if that has anything to do with the age of the frame vs. the new blank dash I ordered, but I don't think its a big deal. I figured I have plenty of overlap with the frame to set the angle of the dash and fasten it, and I didn't need anything sticking above the hoop. Anything else I need to know I should find out when I set the body on the frame. I have the ends of the dash tucked in the inside of the hinges, but it will take more than that to give them a permanent bend. I'm assuming I'll have to do this before covering with foam & leather to avoid damaging or separating the covering.


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50610344751_7aa0bb2570_b.jpg

[John Ibele]

Thank you for the list!

You're welcome - I'm glad someone found it helpful!

[John Ibele]

I've been making steady progress on the dash. After moving gauge, indicator and control locations around a number of times the layout seems to be settling down ... the driver's-eye view now looks like this:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50695214348_a4b8161e50_b.jpg

I cut four sections of aluminum L-bracket material to use for hanging the dash, as documented in other threads. You can see the flat head screws in a couple locations on the dash. I ran into one interference with the leftmost hanger which interferes with the water temp gauge. Lucked out there, as the bracket can be moved about 1" left and the errant hole falls within the gauge cutout location.

Other changes:



Moved switches around a bit, now in final locations
Left the L/R indicator lights up on top, but moved the high beam and warning lights down low on the dash but still clearly visible to the driver. I wanted more room for the gauges with the limited field of view through the steering wheel than I could get with the diamond shape of all for lights together.
The two circles close to each other next to the speedo are for DS seat heater and indicator light. I'll need to lay those out a bit differently since the two cannot physically fit that close together.



I got a separate sheet of 0.040" 6061 to use as a second layer to stiffen the dash. I got that cut to size, and drilled both layers for the steering column, using the Mike Everson bezel as a guide.

I made some brackets to brace the bottom of the dash:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50743441963_096e3c78a4_b.jpg

Those were easy to make with the brake that I have, plus a hand seamer to do the last bend. Installed they look like this:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50743443303_5f6f363018_b.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50744291057_3e764ff56d_b.jpg

I installed a grab rail for underneath the glove box:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50743443248_53d25b1622_b.jpg

I made braces from steel L-bracket to attach the grab rail so that both the dash and the grab rail are solidly mounted to the frame. The second bracket isn't yet installed in this view:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50744179781_16b47f4790_b.jpg

I have a few more things to receive in the mail (the water gauge, returned with temperature in F rather than C, and some switch bezels), and then I can start drilling the dash. The additional time required to brace the dash wasn't huge, and i'm really happy with how solid it feels.

[460.465USMC]

John, I like how you're dash is coming together. Good view of the tach., H2O, and oil pressure through the limited viewing space available. Going to bookmark your example for my reference when I get to this point. Thanks!

[John Ibele]

Thanks Chris! Glad it helps. This is a part I’ve really enjoyed so far. Lots of good examples to follow, but with a blank sheet of aluminum there’s the option to just go your own way in spots. I’m getting better at metal fab (finally) so that’s faster and less frustrating than initial attempts. Plus - I get to put off thinking about wiring. :rolleyes:

[Fman]

Nice work! I like your modified competition layout... you will be into wiring before you know it.

[John Ibele]

Nice work! I like your modified competition layout... you will be into wiring before you know it.

Thanks, Fman! When I only get an hour or so a night to work on the car it can sometimes seem like a long haul, but its been great getting some bigger chunks of time to dig in ... put some Zep on the stereo and go to work! :cool:

[John Ibele]

More forward progress on the dash, which is coming together nicely.

I went through a bunch more layouts and finally ended up with this, which better be the final one, because the holes are now drilled!

On the bottom are the horn button, ignition, lights, and heater knob. I'll get a replacement knob for the heater to match the headlight pull.
Next are a pair of toggle switches on either side of the speedo. L to R: wiper, hazard, DS seat heater, PS seat heater
Above that are the indicator lights for the seat heaters. I'll replace the rocker switches with the lucas type switches for the seat heaters, and do a 50% on / 100% on with the indicator lights for the lo / high heater positions.

I talked myself in circles about getting genuine Lucas switches and finally decided to stay with the one larger wiper switch and three of the smaller FFR-provided switches. I was almost sold on getting all genuine switches until I determined that for the seat heaters, I was planning on using the ON-OFF-ON switch which they use for turn indicator applications. The genuine Lucas switches use a longer toggle on this switch ... then I'm picturing taking apart switches to get all the same length toggles ... not gonna do that. While they feel different (wiper switch has a nice chunky mechanical feel on actuation, the others have a 'tighter' click), the FFR provided switches feel plenty solid and look nice when installed on the dash, so in they go. I also geeked out on bezels to match the look of the dash, but more on that later. I think the motivation there was to enjoy picking out something with $3 cost AND $3 postage ... when does THAT happen with a roadster?! :rolleyes:

I spent enough time with the layout so that I'm really happy with the end result. It has a nice balanced look and 'supports' the gauge layout above it. Its got the most important controls and indicators in nearest proximity to the driver. The only compromise of sorts was putting the headlight switch to the right side of the speedo. It was either there or under the steering wheel (or perhaps to the left of the wheel), and I didn't feel comfortable with that, plus liked the layout better this way. Its still within easy reach, even if reaching in from outside the car.


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50789643481_df5021bd52_b.jpg

I drilled the smaller holes with a step drill, and went oversized on the holes in the back stiffener panel where I needed to. Be super careful about drilling undersized and getting the needle files out for any keys and flats you need to file into place. Yep, ask me how I know. Not a big deal ... I can add braces on either side of the heater control behind the dash if I need to.

Favorite tool of the week: hand countersink which I had in my woodworking toolbox, which works great to deburr holes in the aluminum.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50789643521_e1778e2756_b.jpg

After putting in this much time on the dash I got a little gun-shy about using the jigsaw so I went with the hand nibbler to do the glovebox cutout. This much took me about 10 minutes, and actually went around the corner without much trouble. The smaller radius took a little backtracking, but not bad. Add in working with the rasp and file and doing the back panel as well ... probably between 2 and 3 hours total. Not fast. But faster than having to do it over I guess, and it turned out great. Be careful with the dash if its unsupported once you cut the glovebox out. Very flimsy.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50788888373_8c12464e93_b.jpg

I found these Soss 106 hinges, and I'm pretty pleased with how they look like they'll work. They are made for use with metal, are completely hidden inside the glovebox, and don't take up much space. They have a nice look and are plenty sturdy. Like European-style cabinet hinges, their center of rotation is in front of the box (which is what you want).

Here's the approximate layout of the hinges from the backside of the dash, with the bolts from the grab bar coming through the dash. I still need to figure out exactly how the bottom of the glovebox will work out ... I left myself with a bit of head-scratcher there, but I think there's a solution.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50789643526_191877d06f_b.jpg

Here's a side view of the hinge in the closed position. Dash would be where my thumb is, and glovebox door would be just above that.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50789756187_e4ccc4a871_b.jpg

Here's the same view, open about 135 degrees.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50789756222_ba06a533a7_b.jpg

There are limits on panel thickness and minimum gap between panels, but as far as I can see those can be ignored if you're only planning on opening the door 90 degrees, as I am. Pretty cool hinge mechanism. I'll show how they work in this application in the next post (hopefully not more than a few days from now!).

[GTBradley]

Best debur solution I’ve ever seen. The hinges are interesting and look like they could be a very nice improvement, where did you get them? Did you mention already what the plan is for attaching them?

[John Ibele]

Best debur solution I’ve ever seen. The hinges are interesting and look like they could be a very nice improvement, where did you get them? Did you mention already what the plan is for attaching them?

Thanks, GT! I'd have to check which site on Amazon but I think its this one (https://www.amazon.com/SOSS-Concealed-Surface-Invisible-Chrome/dp/B0084JJ3KC). The satin chrome finish looks fine, better than the unfinished hinges. That Amazon site also has this PDF (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51tGdofllpL.pdf) as well as other CAD format prints.

I'll attach them the same way I am attaching the dash hanger brackets and fastening the glovebox: flathead countersunk phillips head screws, with nyloc nuts on the back or stainless acorn nuts if I want it to look fancy. I'll sink the screw heads in JBWeld, then sand it all flush with the dash face before covering with foam and leather.

[John Ibele]

I'm going to have the shallow glovebox since I didn't choose the firewall forward, and have the VintageAir heater / defroster taking up space behind the dash. I really liked Fixit's approach (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?27544-The-40-Watt-Garage-9365-At-the-quot-House-of-Kleiner-quot&p=344199&viewfull=1#post344199) to getting more space around the heater, but had my lifetime dose of fiberglass / polyester with some boat sheathing several decades ago, and decided to take a different route.

While you can't do complex curves when you're working in sheet metal without more fancy tools, you can still grab a bit more space as you go under the heater - here's what I ended up with for a jig:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50855994423_e4ac3972a8_z.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50856809862_894ff8066e_z.jpg

I decided to cover the glovebox interior in leather before assembly, because I just couldn't see how that was going to happen well after. The back was simple, and the edges not bad ...

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50846951987_a5acc80e91_z.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50846866381_20c2aa6976_z.jpg

After gluing the leather on I masked it with painter's tape to protect it until after final assembly and glue-up. Here's a dry-fit before assembly:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50846138933_ef8fe5ef55_b.jpg

One more needed piece was a 'clamp ring' out of 0.090" aluminum plate ... started cutting with the 45-year-old Black and Decker inherited from my father, finally died 3-4 inches into the cut, replaced with the cordless Makita jigsaw ... wow, a 5 decade jump forward in technology! Should have done that long ago. Oh well, working great now. The right blade and a little grease on the bottom of the cut to make it last longer and I get none of the kickbacks I was getting before. Making cuts like this without drama in a minute or so, big step forward in fabbing capability. School of hard knocks can be painful, but all part of the fun I guess. Roughing it out ...

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50846866116_b5e8d51501_z.jpg


I attached the jig to a 'clamp board' so I could pull the 'clamp ring' down tight over the dash face of the glove box. Put a sheet of plastic between the two jig pieces, wrapped the top piece in plastic ... all to keep the JB Weld where I want it, and not where I don't ... here's the glue-up of the edge and clamp ring:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50855992648_a76bac40f6_z.jpg

[John Ibele]

The last gluing step was a bit messy on the back but will clean up just fine. I've got a little trim of the sheet metal around the hinges and need to tack that leather down on the back, but otherwise I'm good to move on. A test fit shows the glovebox coming right up to the heater with nothing left over. Perfect.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50856716451_414d5e245b_b.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50855992158_811502c1d5_b.jpg

[Fixit]

Boy that looks familiar... except I had to make mine twice (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?27544-The-40-Watt-Garage-9365-At-the-quot-House-of-Kleiner-quot&p=344110&viewfull=1#post344110).

[John Ibele]

Boy that looks familiar... except I had to make mine twice (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?27544-The-40-Watt-Garage-9365-At-the-quot-House-of-Kleiner-quot&p=344110&viewfull=1#post344110).


... yeah, to be honest I wasn't thinking about that when I mentioned yours ... you had a novel approach that really worked out well in the end.

With all that polyester resin in my brain from decades ago, I'm not sure how I skated by the first time!

[460.465USMC]

The last gluing step was a bit messy on the back but will clean up just fine. I've got a little trim of the sheet metal around the hinges and need to tack that leather down on the back, but otherwise I'm good to move on. A test fit shows the glovebox coming right up to the heater with nothing left over. Perfect.

Wow, John! You have some serious fab skills. Looks great. I want to do a glove box too, but not sure yet what I will do/capable of. Thanks for sharing!

[John Ibele]

Thanks Chris. Just hackin' away the best I can. I was happy with the way it turned out - wasn't a do-over, or something I had to grit my teeth to move ahead with.

[John Ibele]

I made more progress over the weekend on the dash and thought I would leave a brief update. I glued two thicknesses of aluminum together to make up the door. These panels have holes for the door handle (countersunk flush from the back), the hinges (screws countersunk flush from the front and covered with epoxy), and a hole for the lock.

I made a back panel slightly smaller sized to have finished leather on the inside of the door. This has cutouts to go around the hinges, and only the hole for the lock. I bought a magnetic catch and drilled a hole through the back panel to hold the steel catch plate. Roughed up the edges of the hole and left a bit extra JB Weld on the inside face of this panel to hold the catch, and sanded the epoxy flat on the leather-covered side. Its not going anywhere. Make sure you get a powerful enough magnet to hold through the leather. This is the 13 lb round catch from McMaster and its on the weak side. I may beef up the holding power with a separate magnet against the steel washer / catch I embedded in the panel. Work in progress, gluing up the inside panel:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50892685223_c0cc8650a9_z.jpg

I've been using 3M 77 for gluing panels, and it seems to be working fine. Masking doesn't take much time, the odor is low and there's not too much overspray. I looked at the many other options that folks are using but I know some experienced folks vouch for it and its been working for me.

Here's the end result:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50892685153_d583a3516b_b.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50893516102_c4796062a0_b.jpg


It's great to see the first part of the finished interior. Very happy with how the leather and foam went on, and the how the handle and lock look against the leather. The hinges are offset to work around the grab rail I have just below the glovebox door, but they work just fine and obviously won't show from the front. They would be best in a case where you have the bottom of the glovebox extend below the opening for the door, in which case the hinges would be fully contained within the box (no cutouts in the bottom of the glovebox). But, not a unique problem to this hinge. These are compact, very stout, and have a cool look when you open the door.

Next it's on to (take a deep breath) cutting the gauge holes with the fly cutter, first with the back panel, then with the dash itself. Everything is locked down to a piece of plywood, 1/4" pilot holes drilled through panel and plywood, screws drilled in to hold the 'interior' pieces I'll be drilling out, 1/4" shaft put in place of the drill bit on the cutter ... no more excuses to put off cutting holes now! Should be able to do that this week, and be ready for covering the dash by the weekend.

[John Ibele]

I had run out of excuses and am WFH this week, so I drilled the gauge holes in the dash backing panel over lunch. With everything clamped down, absolutely no drama. I wiped some white lithium grease on the panel because that's what I had available - figured it wouldn't hurt and might help. There was no squealing, cutting was consistent, and there was a very clean cut on both entry and exit. I went with 2.1" diameter for the small holes and 4" for the large ones; I'll check again with leather wrapped around a large and a small gauge before drilling the dash itself.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50899216001_7c4d54be98_b.jpg

[Fman]

I made more progress over the weekend on the dash and thought I would leave a brief update. I glued two thicknesses of aluminum together to make up the door. These panels have holes for the door handle (countersunk flush from the back), the hinges (screws countersunk flush from the front and covered with epoxy), and a hole for the lock.

I made a back panel slightly smaller sized to have finished leather on the inside of the door. This has cutouts to go around the hinges, and only the hole for the lock. I bought a magnetic catch and drilled a hole through the back panel to hold the steel catch plate. Roughed up the edges of the hole and left a bit extra JB Weld on the inside face of this panel to hold the catch, and sanded the epoxy flat on the leather-covered side. Its not going anywhere. Make sure you get a powerful enough magnet to hold through the leather. This is the 13 lb round catch from McMaster and its on the weak side. I may beef up the holding power with a separate magnet against the steel washer / catch I embedded in the panel. Work in progress, gluing up the inside panel:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50892685223_c0cc8650a9_z.jpg

I've been using 3M 77 for gluing panels, and it seems to be working fine. Masking doesn't take much time, the odor is low and there's not too much overspray. I looked at the many other options that folks are using but I know some experienced folks vouch for it and its been working for me.

Here's the end result:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50892685153_d583a3516b_b.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50893516102_c4796062a0_b.jpg


It's great to see the first part of the finished interior. Very happy with how the leather and foam went on, and the how the handle and lock look against the leather. The hinges are offset to work around the grab rail I have just below the glovebox door, but they work just fine and obviously won't show from the front. They would be best in a case where you have the bottom of the glovebox extend below the opening for the door, in which case the hinges would be fully contained within the box (no cutouts in the bottom of the glovebox). But, not a unique problem to this hinge. These are compact, very stout, and have a cool look when you open the door.

Next it's on to (take a deep breath) cutting the gauge holes with the fly cutter, first with the back panel, then with the dash itself. Everything is locked down to a piece of plywood, 1/4" pilot holes drilled through panel and plywood, screws drilled in to hold the 'interior' pieces I'll be drilling out, 1/4" shaft put in place of the drill bit on the cutter ... no more excuses to put off cutting holes now! Should be able to do that this week, and be ready for covering the dash by the weekend.

Great job on the glove box, looks pro level. I like the handle addition and your dash is really looking great, keep up the nice work!

[Fixit]

I was going to offer a tip, but you've already done it... running a screw into what will be "waste" on the hole.

[John Ibele]

I was going to offer a tip, but you've already done it... running a screw into what will be "waste" on the hole.

Pretty sure that was something I picked up from your build thread ... good tips in there.

[John Ibele]

I made a lot of progress on the dash over the weekend; when its below zero out its not like there's a lot competing for your time. During the pandemic there's been more people outside even in cold weather, but ... <<0 windchill is a little different. We live across from one of the city lakes in Minneapolis and there's plenty of ice fishing, just like always. But this year, there's probably 3-4 shoveled pond hockey rinks, and kids and adults out there at all times of day and night. There's been one group that has brought out a pole, a rope and a chain saw, marked out a circle with the rope, then cut a 40 foot diameter circle out of the ice. Put a bench and few camp chairs on it, and had the family slowly rotating around on their ice carousel. Pretty cool. Needless to say it freezes back in place overnight, and with the weather we've been having it's probably back to more than a foot of ice.

Okay, meanwhile I was in the garage :p.

I read quite a bit on the forum and while there are plenty of options, it's clear that super 77 can work fine for doing the dash and I was pretty used to the stuff by now. It's really forgiving in terms of coating thickness, doesn't have much overspray, and a 10 minute wait was all I needed to go from 'goo' to 'aggressively tacky but stays where you put it'. So, spray it is.

I cleaned both panels well before applying some JB Weld in a few spots between the panels, and then glued up the brackets, getting some glue behind the countersinks as I went. Same for the screws for the glove box and hinges. I held these in place with panel nuts, but I like Fixit's approach of using tape which also worked well.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50926040117_896a781b83.jpg
(https://flic.kr/p/2kAagur)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2kAagur) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

I laid the foam flat and held it to the table overnight to relax after being rolled up. I didn't do anything special other than taping the foam down on the ends, and after spraying, set the dash down on the foam and ran over the back with a J-roller. It went on perfectly flat, nothing I would do differently here.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50925909091_dedd10aa73.jpg
(https://flic.kr/p/2kA9Axn)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2kA9Axn) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

Same deal with the leather. Here I was just a bit more aggressive in terms of holding the leather just to make sure it went on evenly. I taped it with duct tape in the 4 corners, stretching it just so it wouldn't have wrinkles but not taut. I wanted to do this in two steps so I did some masking first, which was quick work with some poster board and the cutouts loosely taped onto the leather:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50926246941_7a70e5648e.jpg
(https://flic.kr/p/2kAbjYn)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2kAbjYn) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

After spraying:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50925902256_9049f60793.jpg
(https://flic.kr/p/2kA9yvw)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2kA9yvw) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

Same deal, I just set the dash down carefully in position using the paper cutouts as a guide, and then used the J-roller on the back of the dash.

[John Ibele]

I cut the leather 3/4" or so oversize, and then cut the pie slits. I masked off the back where I didn't want the 77, and it looked like this while I was waiting a few minutes for the glue to set up:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50926033942_04f1e5554f.jpg
(https://flic.kr/p/2kAaeDY)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2kAaeDY) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

Same as others have noted, when I pulled each of the tabs up and pressed in place there was no question they were staying for good. Some tips:




[*=1]You don't want the slits to start until the leather is up on the back face. To do this you can pull the leather 'up' through the hole, and poke the x-acto blade thru just above the level of the back panel.
[*=1]When you're pulling tabs on an inside curve (all the dash cutouts), 'wipe' the tab from the front face of the dash to the back, putting pressure on the middle of the tab. By doing this firmly and by pulling on the middle of the tab as you push it down, you'll avoid the curve looking like a series of straight segments when you look at it from the front. The point here is to have even tension across the width of the tab.
[*=1]For cutting slits and particularly for cutting the small holes, you want the steep stiletto blade for your x-acto knife, a utility knife won't cut it here. Sorry, I rarely do that :rolleyes:
[*=1]And as Paul noted somewhere in his thread, you want lots of blades.



The back when done:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50925216778_fa8ed74fe7.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kA63JW)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2kA63JW) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

By the way, I ordered a 1/2 hide, and I have a rectangle of 17" x 96" left. That's plenty of width to do the tranny cover and a console box, and perhaps enough width to do Herb's door panels - I need to check that.

A nod to Paul's build threads and refinements from many others here; I don't think I broke any new ground. Just tried to add some detail based on using the spray approach. I was nervous about getting the foam and the leather to lay flat, and it was much less dicey in practice than I anticipated.

Here's the finished dash.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50925224268_b1ae5ba016_b.jpg
(https://flic.kr/p/2kA65Y5)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2kA65Y5) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50925914906_268532e27a_b.jpg
(https://flic.kr/p/2kA9CgC)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2kA9CgC) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50925227428_a7fc7b0a40_b.jpg
(https://flic.kr/p/2kA66Uy)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2kA66Uy) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

I couldn't be happier with the results. I was after a nod to the vintage look but with some of my own touches and with all the controls where I wanted them, and it turned out just the way I hoped.

I enjoyed this part of the build more than any build phase so far. I think there are a number of reasons for that. I've had no travel recently, so there's been better flow to the work. I've gotten good enough with metal fab so it has been easier to meet my own work standards. Most of all, I liked the combination of design / aesthetics, functionality, and fab work. It was a great feeling starting with a blank sheet of aluminum, some foam and some leather.

[nuhale]

Very nice layout John. This was one of my most enjoyable parts of the build as well. I like the small LED's above the switches (assuming for seat heaters). Now the fun part of wiring it all.. :)

[John Ibele]

Very nice layout John. This was one of my most enjoyable parts of the build as well. I like the small LED's above the switches (assuming for seat heaters). Now the fun part of wiring it all.. :)

Yeah, I forgot to mention ... part of the satisfaction was putting off wiring!

[John Ibele]

Forgot to include a shot showing how the hinges worked out. They should work fine - I calculated clearance without foam and leather, so they get slightly compressed at the bottom of the glovebox door when you open it. But, its only a slight compression and leaves no marks. The required cutout inside the box is no bigger than for the hinges others have used, and these are compact, sturdy and have a nice look. I would use them again (and will probably do so on a console box under the dash).

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50925215138_cdaa5c668e_b.jpg
(https://flic.kr/p/2kA63fE)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2kA63fE) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

[Fixit]

Looks beautiful!!

[John Ibele]

Looks beautiful!!

Hey thanks John! Got quite a few ideas from your thread, tons of practical advice in there.

Yep, relief to have that done and feeling good about it.

And my reward is .... wiring :rolleyes:

[Fman]

John, very nice work on your dash, that looks awesome! What did you do for dash material, did you pick up a hyde or use supplied FFR material?

[John Ibele]

John, very nice work on your dash, that looks awesome! What did you do for dash material, did you pick up a hyde or use supplied FFR material?

Thanks, Fman! 1/2 a cowhide, from the Leather Hide Store. Nice site and good service. And beautiful leather.

[Fman]

Thanks, Fman! 1/2 a cowhide, from the Leather Hide Store. Nice site and good service. And beautiful leather.

Looks like quality leather John, I noticed your speedo... did you get the indicator lights in your speedo? (turn and high beams). Maybe it is in the picture and my eyes cant see it. When I installed mine I was surprised to find this, had no idea Speedhut added this to there Vintage package. If you do not have it and want it you could send it in and have them add it on. I just sent my water temperature gauge in to be converted to Fahrenheit, they only charge $14 to do this plus shipping. Speed hut has been great to work with.

[John Ibele]

Looks like quality leather John, I noticed your speedo... did you get the indicator lights in your speedo? (turn and high beams). Maybe it is in the picture and my eyes cant see it. When I installed mine I was surprised to find this, had no idea Speedhut added this to there Vintage package. If you do not have it and want it you could send it in and have them add it on. I just sent my water temperature gauge in to be converted to Fahrenheit, they only charge $14 to do this plus shipping. Speed hut has been great to work with.

You saw correctly, its the pre-GPS speedo which came with my pre-2015 vintage kit. Thanks for the prompt, though, I may ask Speed Hut what the cost would be to swap it out. I should at least know what I'm missing and what it would cost to get it. With the competition layout obviously the indicator lights in the speedo aren't ideally located, so I'd still be in favor of using the dedicated blinker lights.

Speed Hut - I've had the same experience. Sent in the temp gauge for the conversion to Fahrenheit, no questions asked, nominal fee, and quick turnaround. Nice to see that.

[Fixit]

With the competition layout obviously the indicator lights in the speedo aren't ideally located, so I'd still be in favor of using the dedicated blinker lights.

From experience, the integral turn indicator & Hi-Beam indicator on the speedo are totally useless in the SC layout. They're not the hyper-bright LEDs, and being "way over there" you can hardly see them in daylight. My dash layout is similar to yours, and I have a single jeweled indicator lamp (LED driven) between the tach & OP. It's got steering/blocker diodes in-line so a single indicator will work with dual inputs.
I'm still relying upon the Hi-Beam indicator in the speedo, but when it's in use it's dark out, and it works fine. (plus you should kinda know if your brights are on anyway...)

[cnutting]

Speedhut converted my non-GPS speedo to a GPS one. I asked them not to change the face plate or add the directionals. IIRC it was about $100 and a week or so turnaround.

[John Ibele]

Speedhut converted my non-GPS speedo to a GPS one. I asked them not to change the face plate or add the directionals. IIRC it was about $100 and a week or so turnaround.

Ah, thanks, that sure sounds reasonable. I'm sure I can put it together by looking through their material, but ... since you probably have it in your head, major advantages for the GPS vs pre-GPS speedo? Are you happy with the choice?

[cnutting]

I had some wiring glitches and this was an easier installation. I got lazy near the end. :p

Yes, I am happy with it. Simple process, good service.

[Fman]

You saw correctly, its the pre-GPS speedo which came with my pre-2015 vintage kit. Thanks for the prompt, though, I may ask Speed Hut what the cost would be to swap it out. I should at least know what I'm missing and what it would cost to get it. With the competition layout obviously the indicator lights in the speedo aren't ideally located, so I'd still be in favor of using the dedicated blinker lights.

Speed Hut - I've had the same experience. Sent in the temp gauge for the conversion to Fahrenheit, no questions asked, nominal fee, and quick turnaround. Nice to see that.

I also have two dedicated indicator lights for turn signals, how are you wiring those into the harness?

[John Ibele]

I also have two dedicated indicator lights for turn signals, how are you wiring those into the harness?

Hey Fman. I ... dunno. Not quite there yet. Spent my first quality time with the gauge instructions last night, and I'll probably work on getting those sorted before hooking things up to the harness.

Then I had a thought that maybe I'm not ready yet to trade in my newly-honed skills in leather and aluminum fab for my nearly complete ignorance in the wiring department, which would mean building a console storage compartment before turning to wiring :rolleyes:. Jeez you can drive yourself nuts building these things.

If I go that route I'd be a few weeks away from sorting the wiring out. We'll see which way my brain goes when I head to the garage on Saturday morning!

[richtersand]

Forgot to include a shot showing how the hinges worked out. They should work fine - I calculated clearance without foam and leather, so they get slightly compressed at the bottom of the glovebox door when you open it. But, its only a slight compression and leaves no marks. The required cutout inside the box is no bigger than for the hinges others have used, and these are compact, sturdy and have a nice look. I would use them again (and will probably do so on a console box under the dash).

Beautiful work and thank you for putting so much detail into your build thread. I am learning from all of you guys!

[John Ibele]

Hey thanks, richtersand! You too - having fun keeping tabs on your build (even if I'm not keeping up!)

[John Ibele]

Well, I said I was moving on to wiring, but clearly I wasn't ready to leave my newly developed competence in working with aluminum, foam and leather quite yet. I had an idea for putting in a console storage box to augment the tiny storage area in the heater-constrained glove compartment. You know how these things go ... some personal touches on these cars are rationally planned out with deliberately weighted pros, cons and tradeoffs, and some of are of "I'm just gonna do it" variety. This was a combination of both, I guess. I liked the challenge of trying to hit a target that combines a consistent look with the right balance of functionality, and the right nod to the car's heritage.

So, with that rambling out of the way, my seat-of-the-pants design specs:


Finish & Aesthetics

Continue the 'broad arch' theme with the same kitchen cabinet pull used on the glove box, and a top to the door that mirrors the curve of the top of the dash.
Tie in the angles of the transmission tunnel by having the sides line up flush with the tunnel sides.
Soften the look with 1" radius corners from front face to sides
Inset an inch or so from the dash face, which seems more in line with the 'vintage tribute' vibe to me.
Leather and stainless


Function

Additional storage
USB charger access
Hidden main cutoff switch



Once I had the general idea in my head I started with poster paper, duplicating the angles of the transmission sides and sketching in the door outline. (It's tough to get the angles to look right, with the transmission tunnel lacking symmetry to the center line of the car no matter your perspective. It showed on the paper when laying it out, but fortunately gets hidden by the rounded corners of the console when finished.)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50997762857_67441226de_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kGuSap)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2kGuSap) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

After some playing around with various options I ended up with a layout for the front face and door that I liked.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50996951238_0497bb1a89_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kGqGTY)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2kGqGTY) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

After getting to this point I left the poster paper behind and started taking angles directly off the car with the t-bevel and going straight to aluminum. The challenge in this project for me was going to be getting the rounded corners to look right with all the different angles going on, and getting the cubby sides to come in co-planer with the tunnel sides. I started with flat inner stiffener panels, riveted to the console bottom at the right angles to match the tunnel sides and for the front, the angle of the dash:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50997650631_4d9739935f_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kGuhNt)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2kGuhNt) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

I did bends on all 4 sides of the inner panels. Since I don't have a box break the final two bends were done with a hand seamer, which works fine for small stuff like this.

Next up was the rounded corners. You can use your cheapie brake to do this, by bending the aluminum around a pipe of the right diameter. Clamp the pipe down on top of the aluminum sheet, holding it tight to the horizontal plate of the brake. Then you can bend the sheet around the pipe. I took the clamps off in this shot ... the pipe is where it was clamped. The backer board is clamped down to keep the pipe from sliding away from the corner as you begin bending the aluminum.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50996952473_c6488bae5c_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kGqHgg)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2kGqHgg) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

I started with a 2" diameter pipe, but you have to factor in some relaxation of the metal. Another trip to Ace for an 18" section of 1-1/4" plumbers pipe did the trick ... a little playing around got just the right angles with just the right overall width to fit the inner box I had made:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50996947653_6bf66063d2_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kGqFQa)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2kGqFQa) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

Next up was gluing the two pieces together. I used duct tape to pull the 3 panels inward before spraying with S77. That way I could line up the outer piece with the front panel and adhere that before pressing the side panels in place.

After a little cleanup with the jigsaw and the mill file, it looks pretty good:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50996951663_a3c6fc0b38_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kGqH2i)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2kGqH2i) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

[John Ibele]

Next was laying out and cutting the door opening ...

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50997767607_40604c509b_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kGuTzi)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2kGuTzi) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

... and getting the door mounted:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51016526196_7c5d5ee237_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kJa2Rf)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2kJa2Rf) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

Setup for spraying the foam and leather was pretty much the same drill as for the dash ... front face for step one, with masking over what will become the pie cuts, then a lot of masking of the cubby itself to spray the pie cuts in step two:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51033135316_bceba2c8bb_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kKCaao)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2kKCaao) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51033135016_5c38f79c7a_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kKCa5d)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2kKCa5d) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr


Here's the end result:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51032407168_bd9a477e36_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kKyqH7)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2kKyqH7) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51032407118_4590917760_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kKyqGf)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2kKyqGf) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

I'm really happy with how it turned out. It's not a lot of storage but its enough. The sides tied in very well with the tranny tunnel, and the rounded corners soften the look of the whole thing.

I used the Soss hinges again, with the same result - very sturdy, nice action, and a nice look.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51033135161_d5b8e0198f_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kKCa7H)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2kKCa7H) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

They're slightly stiff for just that first opening as it pushes against the foam / leather around the hinge. But it doesn't seem to permanently compress the foam, and I'd use them again. For a leather / foam combination that's thicker than what I have, you need to go with a different option.

Okay, maybe I'm ready to leave leather and aluminum fab behind for real this time, and turn to getting this thing wired up. It got up to 60F in Minneapolis today, and my dyno-tested engine is staring at me accusingly from the corner of the garage.

[Blitzboy54]

This is fantastic. I was/am planning something very similar. I do not have a glovebox and opted to omit it due to the heater. The only reasonable space left up front is under the dash. Thank you for documenting this the way you did it really provides a great blue print for how to get started. Terrific craftsmanship

[Fman]

John, well done! Your dash looks perfect and the storage cubby is a great addition to it. You got some great fab skills!;)

Are you leaving the trans cover under it?

[John Ibele]

Hey thanks guys! Yep, leaving the trans tunnel as is. I’ll drill up from the bottom into the cubby, then put nut-serts in the tunnel top to screw the cubby down onto. I’ll put leather on the top of the tunnel. I’m thinking of putting some polished stainless steel strips on the sides of the tunnel top, and screwing through those to hold the top in place. Would provide a good highlight between the leather above and carpet below.

[460.465USMC]

Very nice, John! Wow! You could have fooled me you're new at this sort of thing. :)

[John Ibele]

Very nice, John! Wow! You could have fooled me you're new at this sort of thing. :)

Hey thanks, Chris! I'm feeling more lucky than good ... as we've all learned when you're doing things for the first time, you can plan all you want but you can't be assured of success. I have a lot of woodworking experience in my past, and I think it just took a while for the experience there to transfer over to metal.

I'm hoping the glow over how the dash turned out will carry me through the complete ignorance phase of wiring! Started in on that last night, just figuring out how to keep things sorted behind the dash.

[BeePea]

This is beautiful work! You're making my gears turn.

[v1-vr]

Wow John your craftsmanship is top notch.
I've gone the lazy way on the dash and ordered a Acton Cobra one with the glove box cutout and door panel. I was thinking of TIGing on the attachment brackets, but your trick of backing up the counter sinked holes seems the way to go. I have been thinking what to use as a keyed lock for the glove box and it seems you have it. Any chance of sharring where you got your lock?

Get ideas you have and thanks for sharing John

[John Ibele]

Wow John your craftsmanship is top notch.
I've gone the lazy way on the dash and ordered a Acton Cobra one with the glove box cutout and door panel. I was thinking of TIGing on the attachment brackets, but your trick of backing up the counter sinked holes seems the way to go. I have been thinking what to use as a keyed lock for the glove box and it seems you have it. Any chance of sharring where you got your lock?

Get ideas you have and thanks for sharing John

Hey thanks, and no problem sharing! This was a Grainger product, 1XRY4 (https://www.grainger.com/product/GRAINGER-APPROVED-Pin-Tumbler-Keyed-Cam-Lock-1XRY4). Yep, they're smallish, but the keys don't look like toys, typical cabinet key size. HTH, -- John

[v1-vr]

Thanks John

[D Stand]

And I thought I was done with my center console. I made an open area with a door to cover my re-located fuse panel. Now that I see your handy work I like the outer door with a lock on it. I might have to borrow this to make an improvement. Thanks for the details!

[John Ibele]

Well, maybe I'm starting to move through the 'sit and stare at it' phase and the 'kicking my butt' phase, and into the phase where I'm actually starting to make progress on wiring. But I have newbie questions which I think I'll throw out there to make sure I'm headed in the right direction. I think part of my problem is my older-vintage wiring harness doesn't match what most others are doing, and my older rev instructions just leave a lot of detail out. I have the new revision for the wiring manual, but of course the wiring harness isn't quite the same.

Or ... I'm just slow :)

I have the fuse panel mounted and the main harness lying in place, and the front and rear harnesses are in place on the frame as well. I started working on wiring the back of the dash, and got the gauges hooked up and things neatened up a bit:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51060502777_b6cc3f1714_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kN3qya)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2kN3qya) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

I have the power and light daisy chains hooked up per Kleiner's thread and I'm fine with all that. There are a few things that threw me off though. For one, each gauge (except clock) should hook up to a sender through the white plugs I've got in my hand in the photo. There aren't any matching plugs like that on the harness. You can see some in the bags above the dash in the photo, though, connected to wires in those bags. There's another example in the photo below, with a weather pack connecter on the other end. My assumption is that these wires were to be used if you weren't working with a wiring harness, and were a standard part of the gauge set at the time. The gauge instructions suggest this but aren't very clear about it.In the bottom photo there's a picture of the dash harness. Most of the gauge connections terminate in female spade connectors. Connections to controls on the dash terminate in the black connectors, for which there don't appear to be any matching terminals to use on the dash side.

Based on those observations and assumptions, here's my plan:


Clip off any weather pack connectors like the one shown below leaving a few inches of wire, and connect them to the appropriate wires in the sender harness.
Clip off the white plugs as well, and connect them to the appropriate wires in the dash harness, so I have plugs to match those in the photo above and can have a plug connection into the dash harness from each gauge.
For the dash harness wires with spade connections, leave them in place, and terminate the wires coming off the dash in corresponding male spade connectors.
Clip off the black connectors on the dash harness, and replace with spade connectors. I'm concerned about the fact that some of these are heavier gauge wire, and there are multiple wires going into these connectors. Am I missing something here?


My only other general question is whether I should be soldering any connections directly to the matching item on the dash, rather than always going through a connector. I can see the convenience of having a plug connection for every item, but also know there's 3 solder or crimp connections instead of 1, and therefore a reliability tradeoff. With no background in this kind of wiring, just wanting to know the best practice or convention here, so I can follow it.

Let me know where I went off track, otherwise I'm forging ahead.


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51060502752_5859b7d681_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kN3qxJ)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2kN3qxJ) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51060502397_ef7cb627b8_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kN3qrB)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2kN3qrB) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

[edwardb]

You have an older revision of the Ron Francis harness and isn't plug and play with your Speedhut gauges. So yes, lop off those white connectors and directly attach to the RF wires. I personally would also remove the spade connectors. Leaving them in place is OK. But then you add a mating connector with yet another crimp connection plus the spade connection. I'd personally rather have it hard wired. But that's strictly a personal preference.

Your picture of the Speedhut sending unit cable is another choice you have to make. Some will use it as is, e.g. home run from the sending unit on the engine side to the gauge connection. Bypassing the provided sending unit wire in the RF harness. Others (like me) use the RF wire out of the gauge harness so that those three large RF connectors basically disconnect the entire dash. Then splice the RF sending unit cable somewhere in the harness behind the dash or in the engine compartment. Pros and cons for each approach.

You'll get lots of opinions about soldering. My recommendation is if it's not something you've had the tools or are experienced with, don't. Done properly, e.g. very light touch with the least amount of heat and solder possible, it's OK. But otherwise very easy to do more damage than good. People will point out that DD's typically don't have soldered connections. True. But all the terminals and connectors are assembled with dedicated high-end machines where there's a lot of science with the crimps, pull tests, etc. Spent my career around that stuff. With the right tools, e.g. a decent to high end crimper, the right dies, and some practice, DIY can be done well.

Good luck.

[D Stand]

Before cutting anything you should look at all of your gauge sending units. I would assume that the sending units are a 2-wire version and the weather pack ends plug into them. If you have the older harness which is set up for 1-wire sending units you might need to abandon the wires in the harness and run the wires that came with your gauges. Enjoy your wiring adventure!

[John Ibele]

You have an older revision of the Ron Francis harness and isn't plug and play with your Speedhut gauges. So yes, lop off those white connectors and directly attach to the RF wires. I personally would also remove the spade connectors. Leaving them in place is OK. But then you add a mating connector with yet another crimp connection plus the spade connection. I'd personally rather have it hard wired. But that's strictly a personal preference.

Your picture of the Speedhut sending unit cable is another choice you have to make. Some will use it as is, e.g. home run from the sending unit on the engine side to the gauge connection. Bypassing the provided sending unit wire in the RF harness. Others (like me) use the RF wire out of the gauge harness so that those three large RF connectors basically disconnect the entire dash. Then splice the RF sending unit cable somewhere in the harness behind the dash or in the engine compartment. Pros and cons for each approach.

You'll get lots of opinions about soldering. My recommendation is if it's not something you've had the tools or are experienced with, don't. Done properly, e.g. very light touch with the least amount of heat and solder possible, it's OK. But otherwise very easy to do more damage than good. People will point out that DD's typically don't have soldered connections. True. But all the terminals and connectors are assembled with dedicated high-end machines where there's a lot of science with the crimps, pull tests, etc. Spent my career around that stuff. With the right tools, e.g. a decent to high end crimper, the right dies, and some practice, DIY can be done well.

Good luck.

Thanks for chiming in, Paul. Confirms my general direction, and bolsters my confidence in lopping off the connectors on the harness and hard wiring in. And yep, didn't mean to re-open the soldering topic itself. As you suggest, I think that question is best answered based on individual experience and tools available. For me, plenty of past experience soldering from the RC modeling world and kids' projects, so I'm most comfortable with that approach. And in thinking about it, any 'quick connect' option behind the dash isn't really that anyway, not once you've diagnosed the problem, removed the dash, replaced the switch ... I'll side with the minimum number of connections, made in a way that's most reliable based on my ability and tools.


Before cutting anything you should look at all of your gauge sending units. I would assume that the sending units are a 2-wire version and the weather pack ends plug into them. If you have the older harness which is set up for 1-wire sending units you might need to abandon the wires in the harness and run the wires that came with your gauges. Enjoy your wiring adventure!

Good catch. I know I want to have the harness do the work between sensor and dash, but I'll make sure I have ground figured out before picking up the wire cutters.

Thanks, guys!

[John Ibele]

I haven't left an update in a few months but have been making steady progress so I figured it's time for an update. I pushed through my dash wiring overthinking after Paul's response and a pep talk from Fixit. After thinking through the process beforehand there's nothing like just getting started, and learning from experience what works best for you in terms of all the wiring connections. I ended up with solder for wire-wire connections where needed. With some practice, I got joints that were properly flowed without dumping excess heat into the joint, properly strain relieved with heat shrink tubing. I used crimp connections at terminations, where I built confidence by just doing an informal pull test after crimping.

I didn't tread much new ground so not a lot of photos of the back of the dash. I used mini-LED indicator lights for turn signals, high beam and warning light, and they are indeed bright enough to sear your eyeballs at night. I found a cheap LED dimmer, and breadboarded it to confirm that it could be used on the ground side of the circuit, and that it would remember the last dimming setting when the power was turned off (it did). So, I needed only one dimmer for all the dash indicator lights.

After confirming this, I set up a relay hooked up to the headlights so that when they are on, the dash indicator lights have a ground path through the dimmer, and when the lights are off, the dash indicators are wired straight to ground (undimmed). It works great; they dim nicely when the lights are turned on. There's one minor refinement to add. When the dimmer is in the circuit and one light is on, you can see a very faint glow in the lights which are not on. This should be easily taken care of with a diode in the circuit.

To verify everything worked right I mounted the dash and hooked up a lantern battery to power the gauges, and then did the obligatory session sitting in the car with the garage lights out, and the gauge lights glowing. That leaves only the heater and wiper wiring to go. I would have continued with that, but the garage got crowded:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51232411330_cc8ec67e98_b.jpg
(https://flic.kr/p/2m4euYJ)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2m4euYJ) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

That's a one-family truck, originally owned by my grandfather who was the Studebaker dealer 'up North', and kept in the family ever since. I brought it down from the cabin to take to Back to the 50's, coming up in a few weeks. BTT50's is quite an experience ... 5:45 in the morning, you line up to get in to one of three entrances to the MN state fairgrounds, and you have over a mile of cars ahead of you in line, each one pre-1964, and something you'd want to look at and chat with the owner about. Over 10,000 pre-1964 vehicles all in one place.

Hope you'll indulge the off-topic item ... just figured that's reasonably cool for car folks. And while fun, it does impact the space for car building. I can always roll the body buck off the car and continue working as I was, but when I'm still mostly working on the car an hour here and an hour there, much better to just get the trunk finished up since its accessible.

I hit the 60 year mark and got a nice air compressor from the family in recognition ... now there's a family that cares! First tool purchase was a rivet gun. While I've pulled all the rivets with a hand tool so far, boy was I happy to have this guy before doing the trunk. Very nice. Our eldest stopped over to help out for a bit:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51230643462_a327161cc1_b.jpg
(https://flic.kr/p/2m45rsf)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2m45rsf) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

I was pleased with how things turned out, with only some minor additions still to go. I have to add the patch below the anchor for the PS tank strap (sitting on the lip of the trunk in this photo), and another one just above it for the tab I removed from the frame.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51230643177_37a2e50b97_b.jpg
(https://flic.kr/p/2m45rnk)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2m45rnk) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

I needed to add the patch panels on the outside after getting the upper trunk aluminum in place. It worked out fine, but provided a good reminder to thoroughly mock up everything beforehand to ensure the right order of assembly. No harm done in this case:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51232116714_3e0a5db612_b.jpg
(https://flic.kr/p/2m4cZp9)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2m4cZp9) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

The last step is to fab some panels for the inner sides of the upper trunk region. Ideally I would have done these with a lip at the bottom, tucked under the upper trunk bottom. Did I mention the value of thoroughly mocking up everything beforehand :rolleyes: ... no big deal, it will be fine without that addition, since its really just going to be there to clean things up and make it all easier to carpet.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51231559078_fa9af8274f_b.jpg
(https://flic.kr/p/2m4a8CJ)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2m4a8CJ) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

It's nice to be at the point where fabbing additional aluminum pieces is reasonably efficient, which only comes after a certain amount of practice. Once I have the side pieces done I'll just continue with carpeting the trunk and finishing it up, since it's what's easily accessible until the end of June.

[Blitzboy54]

You inspired me to do the same with the trunk panels. Great call and I'm glad you got to spend some time on the build with your son.

[John Ibele]

You inspired me to do the same with the trunk panels. Great call and I'm glad you got to spend some time on the build with your son.

Ha, Jesse I think the inspiration goes both ways. I saw your last build post, and realized I was stopping at HD on the way home to grab some aluminum tape, then it went from there.

Looked at your last post ... looked like you had already fabbed side panels? Anyway the only piece I still need to solve is how to get the darn thing where I want it. Looks like I may need to do a small patch panel up where seat belt anchor comes up from the frame. Just not enough space to get things tilted into place ... see if I can puzzle through that next.

[Blitzboy54]

looked like you had already fabbed side panels?

Yeah but I literally just fab’d them up this afternoon :)

It went pretty fast actually

[NYMike]

Looking good John. I think we're going to need some more pictures of the truck. It looks beautiful and it's so awesome that you have kept it in the family.

[John Ibele]

Looking good John. I think we're going to need some more pictures of the truck. It looks beautiful and it's so awesome that you have kept it in the family.

Thanks, Mike. I'll probably post a few photos in another forum on here, including a shot of the drive in at the beginning of the event ... pretty impressive sight. Bummer about your radiator - good recovery though!

[460.465USMC]

Glad to read about your progress. It's been a while, so I was thinking about sending you a PM to see how things are going.

That Studebaker looks really nice, and the best part is, of course, its family history. That's great. Looking forward to those promised pictures of BTT50s!

Happy birthday! An air compressor is such a great gift. No doubt it will be a workhorse in your garage. I'm also hitting a milestone this summer, but one decade behind you. :p

Thanks for the great updates.

[John Ibele]

Got a big summer milestone behind us with our daughter's wedding in the end of July, so phase two of the summer should have more build time in store. It's great to get back at it.

I finished off the two interior panels to give the trunk a more finished look prior to doing the trunk liner.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51368061838_453581ddd7_c.jpg
(https://flic.kr/p/2mgdK9A)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2mgdK9A) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

I did a one-piece panel on the driver's side, but it needs a clearance slot to get around the seat belt anchor. I liked the two-piece / no cutout version better.

The Thermo-Tec in the trunk is maybe a bit of overkill, but once you hear the 'ping' turn into a nice solid 'thunk' it's hard to stop. I figured it can't hurt (other than a bit of weight and $$) ... and possibly can help a lot in a more solid feel and a much more limited rattle patrol once the car is on the road. Anyway, it's easy to work with and really makes things sound and feel solid once in place.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51367082192_dc122fac3b_c.jpg
(https://flic.kr/p/2mg8HW9)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2mg8HW9) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

I tackled the trunk liner next ... went back and forth about how to handle the finish on the gas tank access covers and eventually decided to leave them natural aluminum. The trunk liner was pretty easy to work with, although plan on going through utility blades at a pretty quick rate. I used the Weldwood outdoor carpet adhesive as others have, and after realizing that the adhesive has good initial tack without any wait time whatsoever, it worked well for me.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51368850865_533dcb922e_c.jpg
(https://flic.kr/p/2mghMGv)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2mghMGv) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

I didn't carry the liner up over the top of the frame on the sides, figuring this area was going to be virtually invisible. And ... well, there's the hole through the frame as well. Am I good to go, or do I need to cap those?

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51367081992_a8df67cc68_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mg8HSG)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2mg8HSG) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

Last step was to measure the back of the cockpit rear panel for trunk liner and apply before installing the rear panel. That worked great, and I'm sure far easier than installing after the fact.

Before installing the rear panel, I just had to reposition the rear panels where the tranny tunnel meets the rear panel. In sighting down the frame where the rear cockpit panel was going to be riveted in place, I noticed the mating surface on these panels was tilted simply too far to the rear. They needed to be rotated so that the mating surface was co-planar with the frame, giving a planar mounting surface to the rear cockpit panel. Easier to view than to explain; hope that makes sense.

Anyway, not my proudest workmanship moment, but certainly none the worse for wear and completely invisible once the Thermo-Tec and carpet is in place. I feel better now.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51368580254_7ce3b92096_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mggpfN)
by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

I riveted the back panel in place. Wow, nice to see that view of the aluminum without all the Clecos in there. The aluminum tape should be redundant with the silicone in the joint, but it seemed like good insurance and doesn't take long. I'll finish that up before moving on.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51367841861_78696c1405_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mgcBKT)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2mgcBKT) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

Feels good to be back in the garage again and making some forward progress!

[Fman]

Pro level install on the trunk carpet, nice work! Looks really good.

[Blitzboy54]

Pro level install on the trunk carpet, nice work! Looks really good.

Yup, couldn’t agree more. John everything you do is so beautifully done. Glad you're back at it. Stopping the carpet at the top of the frame rail was a great move too. I went all the way and struggled with the bulb seal later.

[John Ibele]

Thanks guys! Appreciate the positive comments. So many good examples to follow. And thanks Jesse for the response on the question about trunk liner up and over the frame on the sides. That's one less item on the 'nagging questions in the back of my mind' list :)

[toadster]

awesome build!!! looks top notch!

[John Ibele]

There's been plenty written about the e-brake setup on the roadster, and lots of different approaches tried. I went for something I thought would involve the minimum amount of fab time and be reasonably likely to not aggravate me whenever I pulled the handle. Here were the key tweaks for me:


Replacing the cable clevis assembly.

Key to this was the cable clamp from Lokar. I had purchased a Lokar ebrake cable assembly some time ago; the only part I used was the solid brass block with the 4 set screws to clamp the two cables.
Threaded rod and rod end to go with the Lokar cable clamp. The rod end I purchased is 1/16" wider than the one that came with the kit, but it can be made to fit in between the two metal bracket pieces just fine.
This setup provides more clearance between threaded rod and the bracket that holds the handle.


Pulleys to route the cables above the frame, and redirect to the brake handle.
A bracket to position the pulleys in the optimal location.

I used a chunk of 4" x 4" x 1/8" steel for the bracket. I didn't know what forces are placed on the pulleys when the cables are in tension, didn't want to calculate it, and didn't want to worry about it. (When in doubt, build it stout!)
I mounted the pulleys on the back side of the bracket, which is key to keeping the threaded rod free from interference with the handle mounting bracket.
I put a bend in the bracket to keep the cables from rubbing the side of the frame, and provide a fairer entry / exit path for the cable through the pulleys.


I started by mocking up the whole assembly just to see what I was facing. I took the advice of others and changed the placement of parts in the assembly slightly to direct the handle more into the cockpit. I placed the bolts attaching the handle with the heads closest to the tranny tunnel side (these bolts are hidden by the vinyl boot), but even so, I didn't like the way the lever rubbed against the side. I enlarged the cutout in the tranny tunnel side to eliminate the interference, after checking to ensure that it will all be covered by the vinyl boot.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51464892812_2923236a92_z.jpg
(https://flic.kr/p/2mpM2C9)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2mpM2C9) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

To design the bracket, I started by taping a piece of poster board to the frame where the bracket would be. I scribed two lines: one plotting the 'highest' path that the threaded rod could take without binding against the bracket assembly, and one plotting the lowest path the cables could take without rubbing against the 4" dia frame member. The vertex of these two lines would be a reasonable location for the pulleys, or at least a good starting point.

With that basic approach in mind, I ended up with this:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51466606920_c04c9c4fcf_z.jpg
(https://flic.kr/p/2mpVPaJ)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2mpVPaJ) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

Ideally, you want the axis of rotation for the pulleys to be normal to the plane defined by the cable entry and exit paths (two lines define a plane). That provides clean entry and exit paths for the cable. You can't get there easily, but you can get close, and there's plenty of room in the pulleys for non-optimal positioning. By bending the bracket along the black line marked on the bracket (which is parallel to the path the cable takes incoming to the pulley), you can kick the pulleys about a bit and get a cleaner entry and exit for the cables. The bend is subtle but you can see it in this image. It worked fine with this bend, and I didn't want to risk interference with the transmission 'A' frame by kicking it out further.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51466603615_aa8dff1b91_z.jpg
(https://flic.kr/p/2mpVNbK)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2mpVNbK) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr


Here's the side view of the assembly before I rounded the portion of the bracket by the pulleys ...

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51466389539_f7d7b8faa4_b.jpg
(https://flic.kr/p/2mpUGxM)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2mpUGxM) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

... and after, showing the path of the cable from rear bracket to brake lever:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51466604045_2657dc90a6_b.jpg
(https://flic.kr/p/2mpVNja)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2mpVNja) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

You can see that the rear bracket bolt isn't tightened in this shot, but even so, there's clearance between it and the threaded rod, and the path that the rod takes to the pulley is low enough so it doesn't bind on the bracket either. When the cables are taut they don't rub against any part of the frame, the threaded rod doesn't bind, and the lever moves smoothly. Lastly, the lowest point on the assembly is still well above the frame bottom, which should keep it up and out of harm's way. The bracket is done and ready for paint.

This took a bit of time for bracket layout and fab, but the solution uses the basic setup provided with the kit and works very well. I'm very happy with the setup.

[Blitzboy54]

That is a very clever arrangement. Well done

[Fixit]

That'll work!
We gotta get together again before snow flies...

[John Ibele]

That'll work!
We gotta get together again before snow flies...

True that! Gotta do my own turn with shutters and docks this weekend, just North of Alexandria. There'll have to be some west central MN cruising for a couple of roadsters when I get this thing on the road. Next summer???

[460.465USMC]

....The vertex of these two lines would be a reasonable location for the pulleys, or at least a good starting point...

Ideally, you want the axis of rotation for the pulleys to be normal to the plane defined by the cable entry and exit paths (two lines define a plane). That provides clean entry and exit paths for the cable. You can't get there easily, but you can get close, and there's plenty of room in the pulleys for non-optimal positioning. By bending the bracket along the black line marked on the bracket (which is parallel to the path the cable takes incoming to the pulley), you can kick the pulleys about a bit and get a cleaner entry and exit for the cables. The bend is subtle but you can see it in this image. It worked fine with this bend, and I didn't want to risk interference with the transmission 'A' frame by kicking it out further.

...and another fine improvement/Mod from John! This makes my head hurt. I didn't really understand all of your considerations (limitations of having a small mind), but the pictures sure tell a success story. Nicely done!

[John Ibele]

...and another fine improvement/Mod from John! This makes my head hurt. I didn't really understand all of your considerations (limitations of having a small mind), but the pictures sure tell a success story. Nicely done!

HA! Good one, Chris!

A valid point, and probably a good indicator of why I'm slow dang slow at this. End result generally solid, path from here to there not always efficient or even clear. And plenty of overthinking. Believe me, it leads to more than a few moments of frustration. But we're all wired the way we're wired, I guess.

How about this?

"I took a look at the cables going through the pulleys, and twisted the bracket until it looked right."

Shorter, simpler, and probably closer to the truth :p

[460.465USMC]

HA! Good one, Chris!

A valid point, and probably a good indicator of why I'm slow dang slow at this. End result generally solid, path from here to there not always efficient or even clear. And plenty of overthinking. Believe me, it leads to more than a few moments of frustration. But we're all wired the way we're wired, I guess.

How about this?

"I took a look at the cables going through the pulleys, and twisted the bracket until it looked right."

Shorter, simpler, and probably closer to the truth :p

That's more like it! :p

In all seriousness though, I really benefit from serious thinkers like yourself. Keep on-a-sharing, so this knuckle-dragger can keep-on-a-learning. Much appreciated!

[John Ibele]

Finally got the e-brake bracket painted and final assembly done and the cables snugged up a bit, this shot is a sea of black but it was hard to get enough light on it:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51557314086_a89ca24c8c_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mxWHfo)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2mxWHfo) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

See how that nice bed liner magically showed up behind the e-brake? Don't do what I did.

I had carefully masked off a bunch of panels before doing final assembly, and then scrubbed and prepped them and applied bed liner, but apparently I wasn't thinking enough at the time about exactly which and how many needed coating. Fortunately the cockpit back panel and the bottom of the trunk were done before installation otherwise I would have had to leave it all in bare aluminum or drill out all the rivets and start again. Not going to happen with the trunk assembly done and fabric in place. But the tranny tunnel and the DS and PS floors were uncoated. Less of a big deal were the trunk outsides and the back corners of the cockpit, all readily accessible after installation.

I have been trying to be disciplined about not leaving onerous tasks for later, so I figured I should stare this one down now and get it out of the way. I'm using Herculiner, which works great but requires some prep on the panels, and (for me, anyway) a respirator when applying, and the stuff sure sticks wherever you put it, which is just about everywhere. Add to this painting upside down on a creeper (no hoist yet, I'm rethinking that about now). As usual, masking & prep took more time on my back on the creeper than painting.

So, get ready to paint, drop cloth works fine in the wheel well area, try a drop cloth under the creeper, can't move much, ditch the drop cloth, try a face shield over the respirator, fits fine but doesn't fit under the frame when on the creeper, ditch the face shield and count on the glasses and painting off to the side, grin and bear it when drips hit the garage floor, ditch any hopes of cleanup for the moment, can't actually turn your body to dip the chip brush in the pan ... you get the idea. Big fun.

Anyway, done now, and worth it in terms of the final product and fit / finish on the car. Just coulda been easier. Happy to be moving on!

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51556520702_516f59161e_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mxSDpm)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2mxSDpm) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

[Blitzboy54]

Looks great John, very clean.

As an aside I am from NY originally but lived in MN for 3 years as a kid. I went to Mound Westonka High School. I learned how to play hockey on Lake Minnetonka

[John Ibele]

Looks great John, very clean.

As an aside I am from NY originally but lived in MN for 3 years as a kid. I went to Mound Westonka High School. I learned how to play hockey on Lake Minnetonka

Nice spot, Jesse. I'm sure it would still look familiar to you - always popular but hasn't lost its history. One big change ... the outdoor rinks aren't frozen as long :(

[460.465USMC]

So, get ready to paint, drop cloth works fine in the wheel well area, try a drop cloth under the creeper, can't move much, ditch the drop cloth, try a face shield over the respirator, fits fine but doesn't fit under the frame when on the creeper, ditch the face shield and count on the glasses and painting off to the side, grin and bear it when drips hit the garage floor, ditch any hopes of cleanup for the moment, can't actually turn your body to dip the chip brush in the pan ... you get the idea. Big fun.

Anyway, done now, and worth it in terms of the final product and fit / finish on the car. Just coulda been easier. Happy to be moving on!

Good discipline on knocking out a tedious task! I used Dupli-color Bed Armor bed liner for the same purpose. (In fact, if memory serves, I got the idea from you). Though I coated mine before installation, I still spent a good amount of time carefully applying masking tape where the panels come in contact with the frame. Plus, I had the bright idea of doing it during the winter, so carried them into the living room to dry (on cardboard) near the wood stove. I think anyway you slice it this option is a chore.

[John Ibele]

Good discipline on knocking out a tedious task! I used Dupli-color Bed Armor bed liner for the same purpose. (In fact, if memory serves, I got the idea from you). Though I coated mine before installation, I still spent a good amount of time carefully applying masking tape where the panels come in contact with the frame. Plus, I had the bright idea of doing it during the winter, so carried them into the living room to dry (on cardboard) near the wood stove. I think anyway you slice it this option is a chore.

Yep, I did start there, not sure I had a great thought process for moving to Herculiner for the bottom panels. Both appear to get everywhere when you apply and adhere well, and I don't think this application is going to see the most taxing conditions.

Last night I had an hour and removed the dash to apply sound / heat barrier to the firewall.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51563261500_2cff7038db_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mytcd1)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2mytcd1) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

I wasn't too jazzed about using the sheet metal screws to mount the heater in the firewall. Karlos and boat737 had some cool fastener ideas in this thread (http://https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51563261500_2cff7038db_b.jpgUntitled by John Ibele, on Flickr). I ordered some riv-nuts for soft material and I'll try those first. As a backup I ordered some of the Hi-Lok rivet pins, since they were (1) cool and (2) cheap.

[John Ibele]

I've been trying to plug away here and there, and actually got some solid time in over the weekend on the car, just not a lot to show for it. I cleared out another leave-for-later job, again from being a bit hasty with getting panels riveted in place. I masked off the engine bay to spray the front side of the 'A' panel that wraps around the front of the tranny tunnel. Lots time with panel prep and masking, a few seconds of painting, done now and even looks like I knew what I was doing. I also painted the under-dash supports I had fabbed, so they're ready to go.

One thing I do have to show for it, I painted and then mounted the wiper motor. The vibration-damping clamp is overkill, but it's a good match for the motor casing and certainly solid.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51586765803_bff4572149_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mAxEdB)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2mAxEdB) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

I'm planning to take next week off to work on the car. The leisurely approach is all fine and well, but it seems like it would be a good idea to have a first start before this kit is 10 years old. And it's way too close to that already. I'm optimistic about being able to drop the engine in before the end of the week, but we'll see how it goes. I could have a bunch of questions between now and then and I'm going to try to get an update on the build thread in at the end of each day with things that come up. Not much time before the snow starts flying here in the Nordland ...

[egchewy79]

Yep, I did start there, not sure I had a great thought process for moving to Herculiner for the bottom panels. Both appear to get everywhere when you apply and adhere well, and I don't think this application is going to see the most taxing conditions.

Last night I had an hour and removed the dash to apply sound / heat barrier to the firewall.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51563261500_2cff7038db_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mytcd1)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2mytcd1) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

I wasn't too jazzed about using the sheet metal screws to mount the heater in the firewall. Karlos and boat737 had some cool fastener ideas in this thread (http://https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51563261500_2cff7038db_b.jpgUntitled by John Ibele, on Flickr). I ordered some riv-nuts for soft material and I'll try those first. As a backup I ordered some of the Hi-Lok rivet pins, since they were (1) cool and (2) cheap.

for my heater, I also did not like the idea of screws into the plastic holding everything together. I ended up taking 1/2" strip of aluminum stock and putting them inside the opening of the heater core, marking the holes on the strip, and installing rivnuts into the strip. I then siliconed it to the inside and held it in place with screws from the outside.

https://www.ffcars.com/threads/first-roadster-build.636356/page-16#post-6087895 check out post #311

[John Ibele]

for my heater, I also did not like the idea of screws into the plastic holding everything together. I ended up taking 1/2" strip of aluminum stock and putting them inside the opening of the heater core, marking the holes on the strip, and installing rivnuts into the strip. I then siliconed it to the inside and held it in place with screws from the outside.

https://www.ffcars.com/threads/first-roadster-build.636356/page-16#post-6087895 check out post #311

Thanks, egchewy79! I think I saw an image of that and I'm keeping that in mind. I like the idea of rivnuts in a backing strip. The aluminum rivnuts, at least in the soft heater case material, wander off center as they're being pulled in and simply don't work well in this application. So that option is out. Yep ... ask me how I know ... :rolleyes:

[nucjd19]

John your build is just beautiful. I just caught up on your thread and I am so impressed with your attention to detail as well build descriptions. Really appreciate your efforts :)

[John Ibele]

John your build is just beautiful. I just caught up on your thread and I am so impressed with your attention to detail as well build descriptions. Really appreciate your efforts :)

Hey thanks for the compliments, nucjd19. Come to realize, when you hit 60 the clock ticks a little louder ... "He built a beautiful 1/2 a car" doesn't seem like a great epitaph. :rolleyes: So, trying to pick up the pace a bit!

[Fman]

John just catching up on your build, everything is really looking awesome! On your e-brake do you have any pics of it engaged? Does it interfere or rub on anything? Your set up looks much better designed than what I have and my e-brake is on my winter improvement list.

[John Ibele]

I took the week off to work on the car and see if I could get it moved along a bit faster. The plan was to get to the point where I could drop the engine in by the end of the week. There's a lot to do still, but it looks like I may be able to make that happen. Here's a brief update.

I didn't have everything buttoned up behind the dash, but obviously if the engine is going in the priority has got to be on getting the engine bay finished up.

First up was getting the heater in. Messy process with all my hacking away with aluminum Riv-nuts (not recommended) and whatnot, and once you've made bigger holes you're committed to ... something, but not what you started with. As they say, tough to put material back on! egchewy79 and boat737 had a good idea in putting a backing bar inside the heater, which looks like it works well. I thought the Hi-Lok pins karlos mentioned looked like they would work, look good and seemed worth a go. They worked out great, and its a simple and ingenious idea ... basically a bolt, but with a hex recess in the end of the bolt opposite the head, so you can keep the pin from spinning while you tighten the nut on. You really want to have a press fit to work with somewhere in either the passenger side of the heater or the firewall, so you can press the pins in solidly on the 'blind' side before pushing the parts together and spinning on the nuts. For me, it was a bit more like a game of Operation, with more severe consequences once the gasket maker was in place.

So, a bit of an adventure in the middle, but a good final result, and I would use those pins again (with a little more forethought next time). Thanks, karlos!

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51598477974_a4fec0a286_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mBzFQA)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2mBzFQA) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

Next up was battery and power feeds in the engine bay. I did the forward battery box, and was firmly committed to an AGM battery after discovering - kinda by accident - that I had had a single AGM battery in my Prius for 10 years before it died. First clue ... no record of having changed the battery. Second clue, no memory of changing the battery. And that's important, because up here they always die at night ... in January ... in a cold snap, with temps well below zero. I would remember that. Confirmation, date on battery of 2010, same year as Prius. That's 10 years of starting in less than 0* F every year. The reason the Pruis gets an AGM is because it's technically in the passenger compartment (right behind the RR wheel, but it's a hatchback), so the outgassing and venting properties are preferred. Anyway, I'm sold.

Reminder: AGM batteries were the topic, not the Prius, and if you want to say anything about a roadster builder driving a Prius, you'll have to take it to the Off Topic Discussions forum. This is a build thread :p

Funny thing, I just couldn't muscle my way through those 3/16" ss rivets that Mark sent with the battery box using my Ace hand rivet tool. I did one and practically had to take a nap ... finished off with 5 aluminum rivets figuring what could happen, the box is wedged in there anyway. Time went by, an air compressor showed up, a nice riveter showed up, very easy on the hands and finally developed a good feel for it. OCD kicked in, I found the remaining 5 ss rivets that Mark had sent with the battery box kit, drilled out the aluminum rivets, fired up the riveter ... done, feel better now.

I put the Ron Francis main disconnect switch in the usual spot, underneath the firewall. My console box will hide it on the passenger side. Next was making up the runs from the battery negative to frame, frame to engine block, positive from battery to main disconnect, and main disconnect back down to the starter post. Obviously I can't be completely spot on with lead location and length for the starter posts, but was able to get pretty darn close (I think) based on build thread photos and then measurements on the engine itself. I installed the PS engine mount on the frame temporarily as an additional assist.

It took me a few tries to get the hand of soldering connectors on to the size 2 cable I had. Other supplies I got from Del City, which has quality stuff, but I got the big cables from Prowire USA ... very nice material. I decided I'm just not a fan of the Fusion lugs with the pre-metered solder already in the connector. By all appearances a more consistent way to go but I couldn't get it to work well for me. I had a fairly thick wheel of solder which I fed into the heated (standard, non-Fusion) lug until the melted solder was 1/4" from the top, then carefully turned the wire down into the lug ... done.

One funny thing, I figured that I wouldn't worry about the boots going over the battery lugs, it was the first end I was doing, so why not just slide them on from the other end? The boots are for 4 - 1 GA, should be plenty of slack. Pull them on, no slack, super tight, and of course you thin out the rubber when you try to pull them along and they just hold on tighter, hey how about soap, soap will do it, head to the laundry room after the wife has gone to bed, try the soap trick while keeping it off the 'free' end with exposed copper ... no go, wipe everything down and start over. Later.

Light goes on, finally, find the right size wrench and push against the boot, which bunches up, expands, and the cable slips right through.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51611429775_480d2ec05c_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mCJ4Xv)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2mCJ4Xv) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

So battery positive and negative runs are done, hooked up to the main disconnect, and the run down to the starter is done.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51617374055_4c68329db1_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mDfwZ6)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2mDfwZ6) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51616731568_72564bb9fe_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mDceZJ)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2mDceZJ) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51616731573_129184ca84_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mDceZP)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2mDceZP) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

Next up tomorrow is mating a nice 347 to a T5. Nah, never done that before either. I've been going over parts and fasteners, talking to Gordon and my engine builder to make sure I've got everything thought through right, and I think I'm ready to go. My brother is coming over to help out tomorrow, and then my eldest son will join us on Saturday to drop the engine in. Pretty exciting couple of days to end the week.

I'll end with a question. Obviously I need to take the last step in the engine bay tomorrow and bring power from the bottom post on the main disconnect into the busbar on the other side of the firewall. But, while that will allow the main disconnect to kill all power, I don't want the clock or EFI to lose their minds whenever I flip the main disconnect off.

One suggestion was to put a 20A resettable breaker across the posts of the main disconnect, which would allow up to 20A to flow (from the top post to the bottom post, and from there to the busbar) before the breaker tripped. I suppose I could mount it right next to the main disconnect. That would allow power for clock, EFI memory, but not enough to power the starter.

Am I making sense? Are there any better ideas? I'm open to suggestions, corrections, better ideas, other options.

[egchewy79]

FWIW, the speedhut clock runs fast and I'm needing to reset it every week. The speedo has a GPS clock feature (assuming you have the GPS gauges) that i rely on instead that is always spot on. In retrospect, i would have replaced the clock with another gauge (oil temp). I also wired in a self reseting 20A fuse parallel with my battery disconnect for the same reason.

[460.465USMC]

Making solid progress, John. Best wishes on getting the drivetrain in this weekend. Looking forward to the pictures.

[jiriza84641]

Great progress!

[John Ibele]

John just catching up on your build, everything is really looking awesome! On your e-brake do you have any pics of it engaged? Does it interfere or rub on anything? Your set up looks much better designed than what I have and my e-brake is on my winter improvement list.

Hey Travis, here's a few more photos with the e brake engaged. First, I set it up so there's no slack with the brake unengaged ... I didn't want the cables coming off the pulleys. So not much difference in the handle position between engaged and unengaged:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51620488359_cc19b77ee8_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mDwuKZ)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2mDwuKZ) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51619839441_d6e031c8cc_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mDtaRK)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2mDtaRK) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

Here's a picture of the brake fully engaged. You can see one cable touches the bottom 4" crossmember, and the other touches one of the side frame members. But neither one rubs or binds, it's just incidental contact. The brass block doesn't touch the pulleys when unengaged; I just wanted to start with it closer to the pulleys, not knowing how much movement I would get before fully engaging the brake. It stayed clear of both pulleys and bracket through the whole travel so I left if where it was.

The key was getting the pulleys low enough, having only the threaded rod going past the bolt, and putting the pulleys on the back side of the bracket.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51620707590_5d02f67e15_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mDxBVQ)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2mDxBVQ) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51619839686_afc7268426_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mDtaVY)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2mDtaVY) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

So I'm definitely in the camp that says the brake can work and work well with some tweaks. I think the biggest problem you'll have is working around the transmission now that you've got everything together. I just took a look at the car and I was really surprised to see that with a t5, you could probably get to where you need to drill with a right angle attachment on your drill. Good luck.

[Blitzboy54]

Beautiful work as always John. I agree the the Ebrake works well if adjusted well. I had a similar issue where I needed a right angle drill but I do not own one. I ended up using a right angle die grinder with a drill bit. Other than being loud as heck it worked well enough.

[John Ibele]

Beautiful work as always John. I agree the the Ebrake works well if adjusted well. I had a similar issue where I needed a right angle drill but I do not own one. I ended up using a right angle die grinder with a drill bit. Other than being loud as heck it worked well enough.

Hey good tip Jesse, hadn’t thought of that and I do have one. Will keep that in mind.

[John Ibele]

Well, that was a good week of working on the car. Last update was Thursday.

My brother showed up to help on Friday, and after a good visit with Fixit who came by to check in, we bolted up the index plate, flywheel, clutch, pressure plate, and bell housing.

ARP fasters on the flywheel. I could see the crank threads went all the way through, so I carefully Q-tipped out the threads with degreaser to avoid spraying degreaser on the rear seal, and used sealant on the threads, plus ARP assembly lube underneath the heads. Torqued to 70 ft. lb.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51626006953_094404110b_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mE1Mfa)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2mE1Mfa) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

Degrease / clean the flywheel, install clutch and hold in place with alignment tool, degrease pressure plate and make sure you've got it on the right dowel pins so the alignment marks line up, and torque bolts to 15, then 25 ft lb.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51625782616_c6035a974a_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mDZCyh)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2mDZCyh) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

Install bell housing, torque bolts to 45 ft lb. Both Gordon and the engine builder vouched for good alignment on both the Dart block and the Ford Performance castings, so I didn't run an indicator around the bell housing opening.

More important to my engine guy was the crank clearance before and after transmission installation, just to make sure the shaft hadn't used up any clearance there. Check the thrust bearing clearance on the crank before installing the transmission. Should be 0.005 - 0.010". Sitting at 0.007". Don't worry, the water pump pulley will get 4 bolts before the engine gets started up.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51626430609_10c21fd2cf_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mE3Xbz)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2mE3Xbz) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

My oldest son and my brother-in-law came over to lend a hand on Saturday. Wrangled with the transmission for probably 90 minutes, just couldn't get it to go in the last 1/4".

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51627534949_a4fea6fdd2_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mE9BsV)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2mE9BsV) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

Called Gordon, and he gave us a point in the right direction - pry on the clutch fork to allow the clutch to float free, and the transmission shaft settled right into place in the pilot bearing. Anti-seize on the bolts and torque to 55 ft lb. Check thrust bearing clearance ... still 0.007", perfect. Ready to drop the engine in.

There was some bad footwear in use. I told 'em to stay far away for any critical parts. My son is a machinist and wore the right shoes.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51626057387_38432ceb6c_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mE23eH)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2mE23eH) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

Check the engine bay and make sure everything is out of the way. Good tip from Fixit to move the steering shaft. Some people swear by leaving the transmission support out until after engine install, some put it in first. I did the latter, figuring it would be some quick removal if it had to come out. It worked out just fine having it in with the small block. There was plenty of clearance.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51626639265_fe533c51bb_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mE52d6)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2mE52d6) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

With the assembly hanging in the hoist, install the motor mounts but don't tighten the bolts. Used Gordon's solid motor mounts, and anticipated having to grind some clearance for the Dart casting. No big deal.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51626642145_56b467621b_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mE534K)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2mE534K) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

[John Ibele]

A couple more twists before getting the engine in. The Dart casting had some flashing which interfered with the solid mounts from Gordon. Removing material from the mount didn't make sense, because it was right near the bolt hole, which was right near the end of the mount. The flashing material was clearly not critical to the block and was only getting in the way. Ground it off.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51626003573_806ea75e8e_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mE1LeT)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2mE1LeT) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

Also, the bolts I had were too long to go all the way in the casting. Woops. Ground off the last 3 threads on each and I plan on replacing them with higher quality bolts later. No big deal, and ready to install an engine.

Rental hoist and level which both looked well used but worked great. After measuring all the relative heights, concluded it would all work in the garage (barely). Slow and easy:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51625780786_fb83abb4ba_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mDZC1J)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2mDZC1J) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51625784111_2e26ebaacd_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mDZD14)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2mDZD14) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51626639025_2cde7225f5_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mE528X)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2mE528X) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

... and, almost in.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51627744675_b169dc7294_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mEaFNT)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2mEaFNT) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

A final snag, how did I miss that the T5 tab would interfere with the e brake bracket? They specifically call out the TKO500 in my manual, but not the T5. No big deal, shove it to the DS side and off goes the tab, plenty of clearance now.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51626426774_746ba4649f_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mE3W3s)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2mE3W3s) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

Got it level side to side, cranked down the mount bolts and there it is, in its new home.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51624950057_7b41cbbb88_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mDVn4P)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2mDVn4P) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

A great day at the end of a productive week of progress on the car. Only one thing in the engine bay needs attention; my two looms on the side of the car don't work well at a pinch point around the bell housing. They'll look cleaner in one loom anyway, and it'll fit better that way. Easy to fix. Really happy to have this chapter closed at the end of the week.

As always, chime in with questions or point out anything that doesn't look or sound right. I'd rather know now.

[Blitzboy54]

If you feel like going back in time that setup goes in a little easier if you remove the shifter from the top of the T5. Obviously can be done with it but easier. I had the same issue with the T5 tab. Zipped it with a pneumatic saw.

Looks great John, you are going to get plenty of punch with that 347.

[John Ibele]

If you feel like going back in time that setup goes in a little easier if you remove the shifter from the top of the T5. Obviously can be done with it but easier. I had the same issue with the T5 tab. Zipped it with a pneumatic saw.

Looks great John, you are going to get plenty of punch with that 347.

Funny guy, Jesse! Not goin' back :p

Fixit said he didn't have a problem with the shifter in so I figured I'd forge ahead. I did think about it. The main differences were that he had the transmission support out, and the TKO vs. the T5. But I measured heights, looked at the length I had to get the engine back level once we got it down in the bay, and just didn't have a close fit anywhere. Not a bit of paint even touched. So ... beginner's luck maybe, but I'm figuring that's all I'll ever need! I definitely did leave the Energy Suspension trans mount off until after the trans was resting on the support frame.

[JB in NOVA]

Right on! Looks great.

[Fman]

Very cool! is that a Jones Racing PS I am seeing? Great setup.

[John Ibele]

Very cool! is that a Jones Racing PS I am seeing? Great setup.

Yes it is, and I'm happy to hear you like your setup. I'm looking forward to getting some more stuff hanging in the engine bay and plopping that Sniper back on top ...

[460.465USMC]

Got it level side to side, cranked down the mount bolts and there it is, in its new home.

A great day at the end of a productive week of progress on the car...Really happy to have this chapter closed at the end of the week.

Great progress, John, and a great milestone reached! I especially admire how you were able to accomplish this goal within the time you allotted. My track record is at best 50% completion of what I set out to do within allotted time (e.g. on a Saturday). Well done!

[John Ibele]

Great progress, John, and a great milestone reached! I especially admire how you were able to accomplish this goal within the time you allotted. My track record is at best 50% completion of what I set out to do within allotted time (e.g. on a Saturday). Well done!

Yeah Chris, I'm clearly not one of those guys who prides himself on how elaborate my project plan is, or how well I stick to the plan ... so it almost NEVER works that way!

[jiriza84641]

Build is looking great, keep it up!

[John Ibele]

Build is looking great, keep it up!

Thank you, Sir!

[nucjd19]

John your build is looking incredible! That engine nestled in the frame is a thing of beauty. Those wheels on the engine hoist are epic. You could roll an engine into a vehicle even if you were in the woods with sticks and rocks on the ground.

[John Ibele]

John your build is looking incredible! That engine nestled in the frame is a thing of beauty. Those wheels on the engine hoist are epic. You could roll an engine into a vehicle even if you were in the woods with sticks and rocks on the ground.

Does look ruggedized, doesn’t it? Well, I wanted the stouter one from the rental place, and it isn’t a knockdown … hook it up to your trailer hitch, no lights, pretty sure that’s not technically legal. Worked fine though. Rental place said they used to have 7 hoists and they were checked out every weekend. Now they’re down to two but could go to one.

[John Ibele]

Okay, true confessions time.

Two things bugged me about the engine install, once it was all done.

First, I went back out to take a look at the engine the day after dropping it in, and discovered that with the solid engine mounts, the oil pan sat 1/4" below the frame. Now that's not a killer, certainly, and is close enough to say it's 'about' flush with the frame. But as with anything on these cars, you're the one to decide if it's going to bug you or not. And we all own our own choices on these cars, but as I looked back on my choice of solid engine mounts, I was less able to convince myself that I had solved anything significant enough to make it worth trading oil pan clearance. Probably something I could live with, but you decide to live with too many of those things on the finished car and they can reduce your satisfaction in the end result. So I started pondering that one.

Second, and more significant, I had a little gap in my preparation for mating the engine and transmission. I absolutely was and am aware of the importance of applying grease only where it needs to go inside the bell housing and around the clutch, and to use only the amount needed. Any getting on the clutch is going to be a potential problem, causing skipping, jerking and generally a hard time for the drive train. But somehow, with plenty of help over that day, I said, "sure, put some on the splines of the transmission shaft" even though this is probably the LAST place you would want to have grease, with the potential of it spinning off and getting in between the clutch and either the pressure plate or the flywheel. Read any basic assembly instructions like those for the Ford clutch M-7560-A302N and it makes it clear ... but anyway, I said it, so I own it.

I talked to my engine builder about it, and after he asked me detailed questions to try to get a picture of exactly how much grease was on there, declared that it shouldn't really be a problem. Obviously there are two words in that response that are way more important than all the rest. Because if it really shouldn't be a problem, you wouldn't actually use those two words, would you? You would simply say, "that will not be a problem".

So I spun down with mild case of BD-RANT* for part of an evening, spending way too much time thinking about the exact meaning of words like "really" and "shouldn't". But, shrugged it off by the next morning and started planning a course of action. First was to get a borescope to take a look at the input shaft. How did I get this far in life without having one of these before? Because neither me nor my wife have lost a ring down the drain yet, with a combined many decades of living ... so you know it's going to happen soon, right?

That allowed me to sneak inside the bell housing, and snap some photos in between the fingers of the pressure plate, where the clutch and the input shaft meet up:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51650033168_d191a539b3_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mG8Vpf)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2mG8Vpf) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

So, since there's grease balled up there, clearly I'm not going to just leave it, no matter how small, 'cause I can't image everywhere on both sides of the disk. So it's coming out. And while it's out, use the Energy Suspension poly mounts. Course of action established: bring back the hoist, pull engine, disassemble down to clutch, carefully remove any grease on input shaft and inner part of clutch without getting grease anywhere it shouldn't be, reassemble, switch to poly mounts, and drop the engine back in. My eldest son graciously volunteered to spend a night wrenching with me, and I figured we could do it in about 3-4 hours, beginning to end. ;) Hence the before photo:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51650038248_65136e755c_z.jpg
(https://flic.kr/p/2mG8WUQ) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

The after photo was going to be at 9:30 with beers in hand, but ... you know how these things go. To be fair, we had it disassembled down to the clutch and reassembled by 8:30, including 45 min for dinner. Not bad. What took the rest of the time was getting the poly mounts clearanced for the Dart block. It's just time consuming, taking off what you need without taking off a whole bunch you don't need. Ended up taking a tiny bit off the block and almost everything off the mounts. Back in its home in the frame by 11:00. I still say not bad.

So just like rebuilding the chimney on your house, some things you do knowing that the definition of success is that it's going to look exactly the same when you're done, but you know it's better. Hence, no photos to prove it happened. Plus, why would I make something like this up?

Probably no updates for a few weeks, we're headed off to Utah and some National Parks to celebrate my lovely wife's 60th. But I'm going to head out feeling much better about the car. Then I'm looking forward to hooking things up and moving closer to first start.


* Builder's Descent, Recurrent, to the Abyss of Negative Thinking

[Fman]

John, glad you got it figured out anything to sleep good at night. FWIW and anyone else reading you definitely need a 7" deep pan with solid engine mounts to not hang below the frame (ask me how I know) :D

[John Ibele]

John, glad you got it figured out anything to sleep good at night. FWIW and anyone else reading you definitely need a 7" deep pan with solid engine mounts to not hang below the frame (ask me how I know) :D

Yeah, the clutch part was the thing that would have kept me up at night. Wasn't actually much there and likely wouldn't have been a problem, but ... just not right. The other part was a 'might as well make a change now, if you don't like where you ended up' sort of thing. And I didn't even think about swapping out the oil pan. "John's excellent oil pan adventure" probably cured me :)

Anyway, as you say, whatever it takes. In this case, no wondering about grease where it shouldn't be, and oil pan now sitting 1/2" above the frame. All good.

[460.465USMC]

John, thanks for letting us in on your dilemmas:


It’s good to know I’m not alone in doing something twice (many somethings in my case!)
Nice to see your faces. Almost feels like I’ve met one of the builders I admire.
Learned a new acronym: BD-RANT.
Get to tell you Congrats twice on reaching an important milestone!


Keep up the great work.

[John Ibele]

Spent a week away from the car to go hiking in southern Utah with my wife to celebrate her joining the 60 and over club ... great weather and fantastic hiking, good people all around. Super fun. They should get some Boig Quiet Pipes for the old shuttle buses though - you can hear them throughout Zion canyon when you're hiking.

Once home I returned to plugging away on the many things you can start on once the engine is in place. Not a lot of photos to show, but here's what's gotten done and what's next ...

First, I rejiggered the power wiring to get everything in one loom going up around the bell housing. There was a pinch point there that didn't like the wiring in two separate looms, and everything should have been placed in one loom for that part anyway. Hard to see with the poor lighting.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51700722070_dc7f9b0500_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mLBHrQ)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2mLBHrQ) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

I read whatever I could find on how to mount headers, and I came away with my own reminder to self that there's often more than one right way to do things. After reading what I could and also talking to AFR, I decided I would go with Permatex Nickel Anti-seize and the Remflex gaskets, held in place with non-locking SS ARP fasteners. It's counter to the common use of Ultra Copper silicone RTV which many experienced folks use, but AFR strongly recommended anti-seize, and I figured AFR would know what they were talking about. Use of sealant in a blind hole just didn't seem right to me - notwithstanding all the comments about fasteners backing out.

Headers went in with some help from son Alex; guessed at the right torque using the shorty box wrench on the 12 point bolt heads. Biggest relief was seeing the clearance around the homemade PS footbox. Clearly designed with adequate clearance in mind, but you're never sure until you're sure. Actually a bit more clearance on the PS than the DS side, which has the FFR standard footbox panels.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51699836981_07ff1744b5_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mLxbkF)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2mLxbkF) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51700511009_d51e059842_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mLACGR)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2mLACGR) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

I routed the clutch cable in the optimal location, ducking down below the oil filter and underneath the engine mount. It's a bit of a stretch now that the cable comes from the far outside of the footbox, but there's not a much cleaner route, and certainly not one that stays out of the way of the heat from the headers as well. So it's staying. I still need to reposition the bracket further down on the cable so it can attach to the frame.

I spent some time on the driveline. It took me an hour or two to get the driveshaft to fall in place. It was hard to get enough clearance around the IRS, and tough to get the transmission moved up to grab more. Making sure I had the engine mount fasteners slightly loose to allow movement, I put a padded pickle fork over the cross member of the frame and under the tail of the transmission, and then used duck tape to hold it in place. Very handy, and allowed clearance for the drive shaft. I'll leave it in place until I have the final spacers and Metco safety hoop in place. By then, I should really have had enough of lying on my back on a creeper.

Once I had the transmission elevated 1/2" or so the driveshaft dropped in.

I spent an afternoon trying to hold my phone against a reference surface pushed up against the balancer on the front of the crank to start on driveline alignment. After several dropped phone exercises and some creative words directed at the phone, I realized I needed to get a proper angle gauge for consistent readings. Good orientation to the metrology and the alignment process, though. First try with the angle gauge made me very happy I hadn't wasted any more time with the phone and app.

I had problems with getting all the angles to work out. In its initial state I had a tranny angle of something like -2*, and an IRS angle of +0.4*. So couldn't bring the transmission up enough to get the total operating angle to <1* without exceeding the 3* max for angle 1 and 2.

I added washers under the solid IRS spacers:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51700114003_12297c44fa_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mLyAFV)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2mLyAFV) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

This gave me an IRS angle of -0.3*. With spacer height of 0.450", I get angle1 = angle2 = 1.4*, and driveline = IRS = -0.3*, in other words, parallel. Sounds better than good enough, so I'll be ordering two 0.25" spacers from Mike Forte when he's back in.

With that out of the way, I'll choose between radiator mount, Sniper mount, finishing off wiring, and mechanical throttle to work on next ... plenty of choices working toward first start.

[John Ibele]

It's been a bit since my last update ... plenty of work and holiday prep taking time away from the build. But I've gotten in some time here and there.

I was going to finish up with the drive shaft and safety loop, but I looked at the pre-applied red threadlocker on the driveshaft to pinion bolts and got curious. In doing a bit of digging I found out that pre-applied threadlocker actually has micro-beads containing activator, which gets released as the fastener is tightened. And, it has a shelf life of 4 years or so. Pretty cool - the micro-beads, I mean. Not that I've exceeded the shelf life of my bolts with my build. To be safe I got new bolts for the drive shaft.

I got the reverse switch wired up and filled the transmission with Valvoline Dex / Merc ATF now that the drive shaft is in place. I put in a magnetic drain plug for good measure.

Ron Francis has a nice plug for the reverse switch.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51746718941_6795e85013_z.jpg
(https://flic.kr/p/2mQFsHk)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2mQFsHk) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

Anyone who's thought about doing a mechanical throttle linkage will recognize these components:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51746719001_f0a5f3c09a_b.jpg
(https://flic.kr/p/2mQFsJn)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2mQFsJn) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

Paul did a nice job with selecting the parts for a DIY linkage, and it's been used a bunch. I think it has the right look for the car, and I want to stick with proven engineering when it comes to safety related items. So I shamelessly copied.

Particular items I focused on:

I mounted the rod ends to the firewall as low as possible, but not in the frame. There was enough clearance in the footbox to put the crank arm pointing up above the 3/8" rod, which I wanted. My thicker firewall is plenty beefy enough, and I don't see any movement or flex throughout the travel.
I figured I should have both crank arms sweep through 90* with respect to the rod they're attached to, to keep radial forces on the arm to a minimum. Hence the slightly different angle between the crank arms.
I put one rod end in the footbox along with both shaft collars to minimize the linkage components showing in the engine bay - only the essentials there.
I put spring pins through the crank arms ... maybe overkill, but I figured no harm in an additional measure of safety. You can see them stick up on the back side of each crank arm. Brand new 3/32" cobalt bit to go through the stainless ... use your drill press or be ready to (carefully) lean on your drill for awhile!


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51760265227_2d18bfeccc_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mRSTxZ)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2mRSTxZ) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51761960420_c55259666d_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mS2zts)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2mS2zts) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51761821349_f7d84fae56_b.jpg
(https://flic.kr/p/2mS1S8F)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2mS1S8F) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

I had to play around a bit with the throttle to get the action I wanted. I set the initial height so that heel and toe would work well with respect to the brake pedal height. I actually drilled a hole in the pedal about 3/4" closer to the pivot point so I could use the full travel of the accelerator pedal, and have that match full throw (idle to WOT) on the Sniper. It worked out well.

Finally, Boat had a nice, simple idea for an adjustable pedal stop using a carriage bolt. As luck would have it, my pedal lines up with a 1/4" hole in the existing bracket in the DS footbox, so I could simply mount the stop in the existing hole.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51761960220_f7019be90e_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mS2zq1)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2mS2zq1) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

Everything is tightened up with threadlocker, operates freely and feels super solid. When I have a bracket and return springs on the Sniper this part will be ready to go.

Merry Christmas, happy holidays and happy new year, everyone. I hope you enjoy your time with family ... and the car, of course!

[Blitzboy54]

Looks awesome John. When your car is done it’s going to be a museum piece. Looks fantastic. I have very few regrets but one is not using a mechanical linkage. I think it’s smoother and works better in general.

[John Ibele]

Looks awesome John. When your car is done it’s going to be a museum piece. Looks fantastic. I have very few regrets but one is not using a mechanical linkage. I think it’s smoother and works better in general.

Thanks Jesse! Part of that is flattering, the other part is ... realistic?? "Here, next to Fulton's steamboat and Eli's cotton gin is this curious object ..." Well, I hope not! :p

[Jim1855]

John,
The linkage looks great, a very clean install and great photos.
Where did you get the crank arms?
Jim

[John Ibele]

John,
The linkage looks great, a very clean install and great photos.
Where did you get the crank arms?
Jim

It's a Speedway item:

Speedway Light Aluminum Throttle Linkage Arm, 3/8 Inch (https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Lightweight-Aluminum-Throttle-Linkage-Arms,28089.html?sku=91018410-3/8)Part # 91018410-3/8

[460.465USMC]

That looks awesome, John! And, it sounds like it's as solid in operation as it looks. I'm doing DBW, of course, but if I had a traditional Go pedal, I would shamelessly copy this approach. Very nice!

[John Ibele]

That looks awesome, John! And, it sounds like it's as solid in operation as it looks. I'm doing DBW, of course, but if I had a traditional Go pedal, I would shamelessly copy this approach. Very nice!

Thanks, Chris. Yeah, there are always problems to be worked through but this worked well in the end and was fun along the way. I don’t have the cable to compare to but I’m glad I took this on.

[John Ibele]

Not a whole lot to show with this update, since I'm continuing to finish up the wiring after getting the engine dropped in. I've got the Sniper EFI installed, and have that paired with Holley's Hyperspark distributor, coil and CD box which are now all in place. That gives me a destination for pretty much all the wiring in the harness and makes that piece easier to finish up. There's also a bit of work to clean up the wiring on the EFI stuff from Holley ... don't want to trim much until I know everything's working as it should, so I've left some of the wiring for cleanup after first start.

First, I had to make a few brackets for a throttle return spring, and combined that with tidying up the wiring harness. View from the DS side:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51849258825_80cb8c2dd0_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mZK1fn)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2mZK1fn) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

I mounted the CD box on the top of the PS footbox, and mounted the coil on the firewall reasonably close to the CD Box. Apparently the wires from CD box to coil are the ones most prone to interference so I wanted to keep that run short. Both are mounted with stacks of 4-5 rubber washers picked up from the local Ace. With some wires shortened it cleaned things up pretty well. There's always choices about the cleanest way to run wires ... I decided to run the ignition wire from EFI to CD Box around behind the firewall, along with the switched (low current) 12V power to the CD box ... so 3 grommets on the PS side for CD Box, heater and wipers.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51849254415_2bd571942f_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mZJYWk)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2mZJYWk) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

Here's the view from the PS side. I hooked up the heater with hoses coming straight out toward the front of the car, since the SBF gives me room to do that. It's perfectly functional this way and I'm sure will work well. But, not the best way to show off those beautiful valve covers. I may go back to the 'L' hose connections that came with the heater, and bring the hoses farther out to the PS side before bringing them back to the engine.

That poses a problem for the heater control cable, which doesn't have a straight shot out through the firewall due to my placement of the coil. Four options I can think of:

bring the cable out juuust below the coil. It will barely fit. It will also scream 'home-made car' ... not meant in the way you want.
bring the cable out at an angle w.r.t. the firewall, between the coil and the CD Box. Could work okay.
buy the newer electronic version to replace the cable completely.
or, the cleanest and simplest ... ditch the heater control completely, and just go with full heat, controlled by the fan selection of off / low / high. For those in the Nordland who use their heaters, how much do you really use your heater control? Kinda like this option the best.


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51848922754_a9f3df6dd9_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mZHhm3)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2mZHhm3) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

There's a bit more work to do in the engine compartment to tidy up the wiring harness for the fuel pump relay. Behind the dash I've got seat heaters to wire, and I decided to stick with the Lucas-style switches instead of the stock rocker switches to control the heat settings. I'll use the ON / OFF / ON switches to do this, push down for low heat, middle for off and up for high. For the indicator lights (separate, on the dash), I need to use a relay to provide two paths to ground - through a dimmer for low power, and straight to ground for the full sear-your-eyeballs lighting on high heat.

I've used part MLD-5A (https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/single-color-dimmer-switches/single-color-led-controller-with-dynamic-modes/1082/2573/) from SuperBrightLEDs for dimming the other LED dash lights whenever you turn the headlights on, and it works well. Most importantly, it stores whatever dimming value you last selected after you turn the power off, so you don't have to reset anything once you have the dimming value you like. A little fussing to do this, but everyone knows the feeling ... some things you get in your head and you just have to follow that trail until you get to the end.

I'll have a few auto-resetting breakers behind the dash, and 4 relays: one to keep the full starter solenoid power from going through the ignition, one for flash-to-pass (I've got a stomp switch on my dead pedal for brights when I have the headlights on, but I want to use the botton on the end or the turn stalk for flash-to-pass), and one for each seat heater indicator light. I'm mounting these on the 2" bar behind the firewall. Still laying all the that out to make sure it all fits.

Speaking of relays, two questions. I've noticed some (very knowledgeable) folks who don't seem to provide fused power to all inputs to relays. Are there exceptions to the 'always use fused power' rule? Does the high side of the coil typically get unfused power straight off the battery or bus bar?

Second ... is there a reason to always stick with resistor- or diode-equipped relays to cut down electrical noise, or are car electronics typically robust enough to handle relays without either? I've read background on why they're used, but wondering if there's a typical preference or practical guideline for selecting either one.

[460.465USMC]

Hi John. I know it's still a work in progress, but your engine bay looks clean and well put together. Very nice work!

I'm pretty sure it doesn't get as cold in the Fall here in Spokane as in Nordland, but with an open cockpit and cool temps it seems like your fourth option is a pretty solid solution. I'm not running a heater, so no skin in the game on this topic, but I'm for cleanest and simplest.

[facultyofmusic]

That poses a problem for the heater control cable, which doesn't have a straight shot out through the firewall due to my placement of the coil. Four options I can think of:
bring the cable out juuust below the coil. It will barely fit. It will also scream 'home-made car' ... not meant in the way you want.
bring the cable out at an angle w.r.t. the firewall, between the coil and the CD Box. Could work okay.
buy the newer electronic version to replace the cable completely.
or, the cleanest and simplest ... ditch the heater control completely, and just go with full heat, controlled by the fan selection of off / low / high. For those in the Nordland who use their heaters, how much do you really use your heater control? Kinda like this option the best.


I wonder if you'll ever want to heater NOT at full blast in an exposed roadster. I recall the heating options being pretty useless in the miatas I've driven when the top's down. Definitely worth getting feedback on how much people use their heater control. My hunch is "not much" :P

[John Ibele]

I cleaned up a few items behind the dash at the beginning of the weekend and realized it was time to start getting the main harness back in running shape after taking off all the wire loom, getting the EFI wires directed to the right places, and in general modifying things to suit my build. For those with a newer kit I'll just say I've got connector envy. Those Pack 56 connectors are not a good match for my aging office-hardened body. I remember having to sit down and wipe sweat off my forehead after getting my first one apart. Now I have no reservations about grabbing each side with a channel lock and rocking them apart. They seem plenty hardy enough to handle the treatment and there really wasn't a gentler option I could come up with.

After some unplugging and roadster Tetris, I had the main harness out and ready to button up. I had dieted the '33 part of the harness previously but hadn't capped all the cut wires properly, so I heat shrinked the ends of all those, and then carefully got wire loom back in place with some cutouts at junction points. Anyone who has taken the main harness apart knows that while the picture doesn't look like much it represents a few shop hours and thinking hours, and it's great to have it back looking like this. I have one item that needs attention before I button it up. I do have the alternator --> ign wire hooked up on the alternator end, and I plan on hooking it up to the red warning light on my dash with a parallel path through a 500 Ohm resistor as indicated in the manual. This means taking the heavy duty shrink plastic off my ignition switch to get that wire hooked up. Painful, but has to happen. Here's what it looks like with everything but that last step out of the way.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51868439260_afb1939047_b.jpg
(https://flic.kr/p/2n2riVw)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2n2riVw) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr


So ... after I get the altenator --> ign wire set up, I'll be ready to get the main harness back in the car. I do have some more wiring to do for the seat heaters, but I'll draw power for those from an auto-resetting breaker mounted on the 2" frame at the bottom of the firewall and keep that separate from the main harness.

[toadster]

I cleaned up a few items behind the dash at the beginning of the weekend and realized it was time to start getting the main harness back in running shape after taking off all the wire loom, getting the EFI wires directed to the right places, and in general modifying things to suit my build. For those with a newer kit I'll just say I've got connector envy. Those Pack 56 connectors are not a good match for my aging office-hardened body. I remember having to sit down and wipe sweat off my forehead after getting my first one apart. Now I have no reservations about grabbing each side with a channel lock and rocking them apart. They seem plenty hardy enough to handle the treatment and there really wasn't a gentler option I could come up with.

After some unplugging and roadster Tetris, I had the main harness out and ready to button up. I had dieted the '33 part of the harness previously but hadn't capped all the cut wires properly, so I heat shrinked the ends of all those, and then carefully got wire loom back in place with some cutouts at junction points. Anyone who has taken the main harness apart knows that while the picture doesn't look like much it represents a few shop hours and thinking hours, and it's great to have it back looking like this. I have one item that needs attention before I button it up. I do have the alternator --> ign wire hooked up on the alternator end, and I plan on hooking it up to the red warning light on my dash with a parallel path through a 500 Ohm resistor as indicated in the manual. This means taking the heavy duty shrink plastic off my ignition switch to get that wire hooked up. Painful, but has to happen. Here's what it looks like with everything but that last step out of the way.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51868439260_afb1939047_b.jpg
(https://flic.kr/p/2n2riVw)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2n2riVw) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr


So ... after I get the altenator --> ign wire set up, I'll be ready to get the main harness back in the car. I do have some more wiring to do for the seat heaters, but I'll draw power for those from an auto-resetting breaker mounted on the 2" frame at the bottom of the firewall and keep that separate from the main harness.

looks awesome! that'a a LOT of work!

[JohnK]

Very nice work John. That harness looks very clean. It's amazing how much work can go into harness "massaging".

[Fixit]

or, the cleanest and simplest ... ditch the heater control completely, and just go with full heat, controlled by the fan selection of off / low / high. For those in the Nordland who use their heaters, how much do you really use your heater control? Kinda like this option the best.

Haven't been here in awhile, and enjoyed catching up on your progress...
In my experience with #9365 (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?27544-The-40-Watt-Garage-new-project-Mk4-arriving-in-mid-April), you will want a method of shutting the hot water off.
While driving there is enough "under-hood air pressure" to force air right through the heater assembly (at a pretty good volume!) without using the fan. In the summertime I use this effect to get air circulation in the footboxes - I didn't do some type of outside air footbox venting - or turn the fan on with the heat/water shut off. Having the heater core at 200 degrees all the time will make it toasty in the cockpit, especially when it's 95+ outside!

[John Ibele]

Haven't been here in awhile, and enjoyed catching up on your progress...
In my experience with #9365 (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?27544-The-40-Watt-Garage-new-project-Mk4-arriving-in-mid-April), you will want a method of shutting the hot water off.
While driving there is enough "under-hood air pressure" to force air right through the heater assembly (at a pretty good volume!) without using the fan. In the summertime I use this effect to get air circulation in the footboxes - I didn't do some type of outside air footbox venting - or turn the fan on with the heat/water shut off. Having the heater core at 200 degrees all the time will make it toasty in the cockpit, especially when it's 95+ outside!

And, there's the feedback I needed, from a veteran Meeenasotan at that. Will plan on keeping the hot water control in - thanks for checking in, John.

[nucjd19]

John... Your build is just magnificent!!!!! I have really enjoyed catching up on it. Thank you for posting such a detailed thread. Can't wait to see what comes next.

[John Ibele]

John... Your build is just magnificent!!!!! I have really enjoyed catching up on it. Thank you for posting such a detailed thread. Can't wait to see what comes next.

Hey, thanks nucjd19! I'm still envious of those who can make much faster progress, but still enjoying the process. Almost done with the wiring, will be great to wrap that up and get the dash on for the last time. Then its radiator, a few hoses, and ... first start?? No time commitments as always but I'll keep hacking away :) Thanks for the positive comments!

[John Ibele]

Well, it's been long enough since an update I thought I should get caught up so no one thought I'd just wandered off somewhere. I'm still making slow and steady progress.

The routing of the heater hoses bugged me, although it was completely functional. They covered up those nice valve covers with the 'direct route' I had plumbed. I decided to route them using the kit-provided 90* hose fittings off the heater, and route the hoses where they'll be less visible. To do that and still keep the shutoff / flow valve, I routed the control cable at an angle through the firewall. I snuck the hole in the firewall underneath the heater itself. Here's a view from the PS side:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51998030983_d4199f6a99_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2ndTv2z)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2ndTv2z) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

That required a 90* bend for the control cable behind the firewall, which I was a bit concerned about. Excusing the rat's nest of wire behind the dash, you can see it here coming off the back side of the dash on the left side. It was important to route it on the front side of the support bracket that shows on the lower left side of this photo:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51997970666_4a6fed72c3_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2ndTc6C)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2ndTc6C) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

I'm happy with the result. The control cable works even better than it did before, and there is no problem with having the 90* bend in the cable before it exits the firewall. The valve and hoses are on the far PS side and don't hide the engine. Good to go and moving on.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51998030953_14100109ac_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2ndTv24)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2ndTv24) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr


Next up, seat heaters. I'm not completely sold on using the kit seats but decided I could always remove the heaters if required someday, and place them in new seats or get a new set. I used the heaters that many others have used, and as mentioned elsewhere they're a quality job. I have the older seats with hog rings. With a little needle-nose / vice grip rehersal there wasn't too much involved in getting those off, particularly when I had done the first seat and knew exactly which rings needed to come off and which could stay. I won't go through any more detail on the heater install since it's straightforward and covered elsewhere. Once the heater pads were in I used zip ties to get things back together:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51985551643_4a941e8631_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2ncMxmx)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2ncMxmx) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

I also decided on using the 1/4" aluminum strips attached to the seat that Paul suggested in one of his builds, to allow free travel for the heater connections past the seat frame. Am I the only one who sometimes wonders whether he's actually doing an edwardb tribute thread? With my sense of humor I'm tempted to insert something snarky here but ... just too helpful, knowledgeable and generous a guy to the forum, so nothing comes to mind, other than thanks again, Paul :). Not that there aren't plenty of other valuable threads out there and everyone contributes something. But that's kinda where I started years ago, and I keep going back to it.

Next was heater wiring. I decided I didn't want the look of the rocker switches in my cockpit, nice as they are. I also didn't want to hide the controls. So again, more slow going as I wander off the reservation but that's part of the whole adventure.

So I clipped off the rocker switches and replaced them with two of the FFR switches that are ON / OFF / ON. Flip the switch down for low, middle for off, and up for high.

I also wanted to have lights indicating off / low / high. I used the LED dash lights I have elsewhere on the dash, and picked up a couple more of the cheapie PWM LED dimmers that I've used elsewhere (MLD-5A (https://www.superbrightleds.com/single-color-led-controller-with-dynamic-modes-mld-5a)). These work by interrupting the ground at a frequency that's invisible to the human eye, which is what you need for LED dimming. Best of all, they have a memory setting that doesn't need power, so once you've set them to full dim, they stay that way until you change it, even when you've powered off the circuit. Maybe the handiest $7 I've found in this whole project.

I ran the ground path for the dash light through a relay which goes directly to ground for the high position (dash light is full brightness), and through the dimmer for low (dash light is dimmed). If that sounds like a lot of work to get exactly what you get with the kit - a working switch, and a working indicator light - you're right and you're welcome :rolleyes:

I did a bunch of other stuff before I could test things out:

got the flash-to-pass wiring figured out and wired. I created yet another detour for myself by using a stomp switch on my dead pedal for dim / bright, and then the momentary on the end of the RT turn stalk for flash-to-pass. I used another relay to avoid sending headlight power through the RT wiring.
fabbed a bracket for relays behind the dash
got the main harness back in after cleaning it up
finally ... hey, those heater switches and dash lights actually work, cool! I took a vanity shot to celebrate.


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51998029978_50e17af9b4_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2ndTuJf)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2ndTuJf) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

With the dash back in place and things mostly hooked up, I think I'm ready to test all circuits and make sure they work.

[460.465USMC]

Welcome back, John. Nice progress on the electrical. Glad you didn't wander off somewhere!

[John Ibele]

I said I was ready to test wiring, but ... well, every builder knows how that goes. You have to manage the wiring for the Sniper a bit to get things neat and tidy. So I spent a bit of time doing that.

They make a big deal in the Sniper manual about making power connections directly to the battery, and no where else. Shoot, I'd made everything nice and tidy before installing the engine, but not the first 'two steps forward, one step back' part of the build. I managed to take out the main power loom and get it properly loaded with Sniper wires, starter solenoid wire, and then back in.

I hid the EFI power connection inside the boot along with the #2 cable:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52070914858_3db267e583_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2nkk3S7)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2nkk3S7) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr



I brought the Sniper ground out of the loom and attached to the body. The only thing that separates it from a direct connect to the battery is 2' of fairly massive #2 cable, so in that sense I 'cheated'. But I'll keep it in mind in case I have any noise issues I need to resolve. There's no way I can think of this as a dirty ground connection at this point. And on the topic of solid grounds, I ran across a clip of Holley's Sniper head guru claiming that you should really have a #1 cable grounding the engine block. Not sure of the science behind that, but I'll keep that in mind. Not sure either of the business thinking behind creating an EFI unit that needs a #1 cable to connect to ground, for that matter. I'm just making sure my connections are solid, and won't spend more time solving problems I don't have ... back to the topic at hand ...

Hey, that photo bugs me ... I usually use shrink tubing on my connections ... and I think the crimp is on the wrong side ... am I slipping?? Okay, promise I'll stay focused for the rest of this post ...

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52070910371_eb9646c7de_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2nkk2wK)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2nkk2wK) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr


I kept the fuel pump relay that came in the Holley harness, and installed it on the side of the PS footbox. I ran the output from the relay inside the DS footbox and connected directly to the rear harness connection to the fuel pump.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52071387155_c857e1a430_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2nkntga)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2nkntga) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr


I'm only using 3 pins on the 10-pin Sniper EFI connector, so I depinned the 10 pin connector, gathered up existing wiring into looms and nestled some of the Sniper wiring 'inside' the AirGap intake. The wiring coming out of the Sniper is really neatly packaged until you get to the connectors, but the wires aren't long enough to put these connectors inside the firewall (at least for me), so they need to sit exposed somewhere in the engine compartment.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52070910531_174b3e11fc_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2nkk2zv)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2nkk2zv) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr



Now things are as neat as I can reasonably make them going back to the other side of the firewall. The looms are really tightly crammed through this one opening in the top of the DS footbox, so I should have the minimum amount of work cutting down on airflow into the driver's side from the engine bay.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52070915263_6bef3b3344_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2nkk3Z6)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2nkk3Z6) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

Inside the firewall is another matter, but I'm satisfied the connections are all solid, and I can do a bit more organization before putting the dash on for the last time.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52071387365_b0500ce193_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2nkntjM)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2nkntjM) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr



Before the dash goes on I had one last item to attend to, the strike plate for the key on the glove box, and a magnetic catch for the glove box door. I had hidden a steel washer behind the leather when making the door ... not hard to find using the little neodymium magnet!

Strike plate made, magnetic bracket made and glued in place with epoxy. Not many power tools employed (just the 4" cutoff wheel and the cordless drill), but I'm getting pretty proficient with rasp, file, and vise. The magnetic catch pulls the door in reassuringly as you shut it, and doesn't take too much to pull away when you want to open. Worked out great.

A shot of the magnet and bracket before gluing them up and painting, bits painted jet black are extremely hard to document in a photo ...

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52080650694_d35401faed_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2nmbWZm)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2nmbWZm) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

I'd say "on to testing the wiring" but ... I have all the radiator stuff laid out on the work bench now, so that's apparently what's getting done next.

[Blitzboy54]

First class John. It's going to have such a professional look and feel to it when your done.

[John Ibele]

First class John. It's going to have such a professional look and feel to it when your done.

Thanks, Jesse! Yeah, feels good to be moving at a bit faster pace now. And ... I can verify that being the only COVID-negative member of the house, but with isolation requirements imposed by work ... can lead to a serious productivity boost for the car project :p

[JB in NOVA]

Really enjoying your build, John. The word "meticulous" comes to mind.

[John Ibele]

Really enjoying your build, John. The word "meticulous" comes to mind.

Ha! That one’s occurred to me, along with ‘fussy’ - two words that could have gone in my tag line. We’re all stuck with our own capabilities and sensibilities, so I’m just trying my best to focus on enjoying the build, slow as it goes. Kinda getting antsy to drive the thing now, though :)

[davamor]

Hi John,

I'm reading with interest your posts relative to the EFI set-up as I have reached that point in my build. I'm a bit of a newbie so taking it very slow and learning a lot. I just wanted to ask you where you got the "Cool IT" insulation that you have on your firewall. Do you have any information on how it performs? Thanks. Dave

[Blitzboy54]

Ha! That one’s occurred to me, along with ‘fussy’ - two words that could have gone in my tag line. We’re all stuck with our own capabilities and sensibilities, so I’m just trying my best to focus on enjoying the build, slow as it goes. Kinda getting antsy to drive the thing now, though :)

Not nearly as antsy as you will be after you drive it. Now that I have mostly debugged my car all I want to do is drive it. Like I am annoyed right now that I'm at work not driving my car.

Stupid job.

[Papa]

Hi John,

I'm reading with interest your posts relative to the EFI set-up as I have reached that point in my build. I'm a bit of a newbie so taking it very slow and learning a lot. I just wanted to ask you where you got the "Cool IT" insulation that you have on your firewall. Do you have any information on how it performs? Thanks. Dave

https://www.thermotec.com/

I bought mine on Amazon. I used three full rolls to cover my cockpit and firewall. I didn't use it on the trans cover or above the bend on the rear wall.

[John Ibele]

https://www.thermotec.com/

I bought mine on Amazon. I used three full rolls to cover my cockpit and firewall. I didn't use it on the trans cover or above the bend on the rear wall.

Thank you Papa Dave for jumpin' in! That's the stuff.

And (other) Dave, I can't say how it performs yet, and particularly can't justify the fact that I put on my trunk panels. What I can say is that when you do the first panel and it goes from a clear bell tone of vibrating aluminum to a very solid sounding 'thunk' ... applying it gets kinda addictive.

[John Ibele]

Not nearly as antsy as you will be after you drive it. Now that I have mostly debugged my car all I want to do is drive it. Like I am annoyed right now that I'm at work not driving my car.

Stupid job.

Ah, yep I get that. In fact, it's odd being annoyed by the great weather at this time of the year in MN, and the fact that everyone wants to pack in a year's worth of fun into 3 months. Fourth of July ... can't you tell I'm trying to work on my car?

[John Ibele]

There's so much that's been figured out on these cars that I'm not sure how much new information I can really contribute, but at least I can update the build thread and document progress.

I got the Breeze upper and lower radiator kits and also fan shroud, along with Boig tubes for the radiator so the trips to Ace were actually nil for this portion of the build. Not sure about you, but that's kind of a rarity in these parts.

I cut off the short stubs on the frame crossbar, cleaned things up and repainted the crossbar on the bottom where the stubs were.

Everything fit fine with the upper radiator mounting kit; spacers used on the bolts that go through the upper radiator to hold the shroud were a bit short, so I filed some flats on a few SS washers to take up the extra space and allow me to snug up the bolts without bending the top flanges on the radiator. All good.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52209852149_f380c81ce5_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2nxB95D)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2nxB95D) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

With the fan shroud and piano hinge mounted to the radiator, I dry fit the radiator on the frame, offsetting the radiator 5/8" from center per the (2012 :cool:) manual. My crossbar was off slightly from level, so I corrected that by offsetting the piano hinge to compensate, which no one will notice if you don't tell 'em. I layed the shroud pieces in place and then checked radiator angle with my angle gauge, then clamped a support stick behind the bottom of the radiator to hold it in place.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52196746220_f783b300d2_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2nwrY9m)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2nwrY9m) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

I know, I'm inviting disaster by leaving my radiator unprotected. Particularly after all those leaky radiator threads, sheesh.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52209555958_3e74c5aec5_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2nxzC2U)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2nxzC2U) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

Okay, better now. And now mounted with the four bolts into the threaded holes in the frame. I was concerned about this mounting setup before doing it, but the 'thin wall' square tubing is thicker than I expected and there seemed to be plenty of thread to engage with the bolts. It's solid - not that I expected anything different, Mark's stuff has been well-engineered with everything I've purchased.

On Wednesday evening Matt (mrgleaser on the forum) and John stopped by to see the build, they're itching to get their hands on their own kit some months down the road. As I expected, folks with more practical car experience than I have, and super nice and complimentary guys to boot. And now even more stoked to get their hands on their kit. Really a fun break to talk with people who have the same enthusiasm for these wonderful creations.

I took a little detour to put my new engine bling / air cleaner on top. I had measured as well as I could to ensure clearance, but you never know until you know. I got the air cleaner in place and carefully placed the hood directly on the frame of the car, figuring it's never going to be that low, so if the air cleaner has clearance in that situation, I'm good to go. 1/4" clearance from the top of the air cleaner to the bottom of the hood, so I think I'm in good shape there, and I like the look of the air cleaner. Eventually there will be a hood scoop for additional clearance, but I figured I'm likely driving in gel coat without the hood scoop in place. Should go reasonably well with the scoop, and it leaves the pressure gauge I put on the Sniper inlet fully visible. Very happy with how that turned out and looks.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52209520781_f5bb945b0c_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2nxzrzp)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2nxzrzp) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52209542438_27e114f7d6_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2nxzy1N)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2nxzy1N) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

Back to the radiator, upper hoses and tube went on without a hitch, and with some tweaking I should have the lower tube / hose done shortly, and them I'm ready to get the overflow tank in place. Not bad for a week around the 4th of July. It helps when you can wave goodbye to your honey while she goes on a week's vacation, and then have the discipline to say, "super busy in the evenings that week" to any invitations to get distracted.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52210004950_ce24527965_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2nxBVv9)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2nxBVv9) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

[460.465USMC]

On Wednesday evening Matt (mrgleaser on the forum) and John stopped by to see the build, they're itching to get their hands on their own kit some months down the road. As I expected, folks with more practical car experience than I have, and super nice and complimentary guys to boot. And now even more stoked to get their hands on their kit. Really a fun break to talk with people who have the same enthusiasm for these wonderful creations.

I had a similar, very enjoyable experience like yours with now local builder, Jim. Plus, he's a lot more knowledgeable than yours truly, and has helped with a number of things. Very fun!

I took a little detour to put my new engine bling / air cleaner on top.

Looking gooooood, John! Your motor is eye candy! Not something at which my Coyote excels.


Not bad for a week around the 4th of July. It helps when you can wave goodbye to your honey while she goes on a week's vacation, and then have the discipline to say, "super busy in the evenings that week" to any invitations to get distracted.

My wife actually bought me a shirt that says, "I can't. I have plans in the garage". I wear it often.

Very cool, John. See my responses in the quote above.

[John Ibele]

I took a few more steps forward over the weekend. Man, even up here in da Nordland the heat is making the garage pretty inhospitable ... trying to get in the morning hours as much as possible.

With the radiator hooked up and ready ... I took it out to mount a power steering cooler to the side of fan shroud.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52231292281_5c64bb439a_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2nzv2u6)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2nzv2u6) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

I picked out a power steering fluid reservoir and made up a mounting bracket for it. It seems huge to me, but actually about the same size as most of the remote / universal offerings out there. I'm not too jazzed about the vibration potential that comes with only two mounting points on the side of the square frame rail, but it seems pretty sturdy. I'll keep an eye on it, and add a backing bar between the two frame rails and tie that into the top of the bracket if needed.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52231773565_9c6756d93f_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2nzxuy6)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2nzxuy6) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

Next up is to mount the coolant overflow tank on the side of the F panel. The Canton 1.75 quart option is big enough, and seems like a good fit for that spot:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52231563959_72b6e83eff_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2nzwqfc)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2nzwqfc) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

I think I'll have to mount the hood hinges before picking the final location for the overflow tank, just to make sure I've got clearance for everything. It's getting a little crowded in that corner, but I think everything will still be accessible and servicable when everything is put together. When that's mounted I'll finish hooking up hoses, mount the oil air separator I picked up, and then take a look at what's left before first start. Finally, getting close!

[John Ibele]

I finished up the power steering last night. With each step on this car I start out slow with some new activity - like slicing ss hose cleanly with the 4" grinder and tightening the hose end fittings - and gradually get faster and better at it. Then I wonder when I'm ever going to use this newly developed skill again. Anyway, getting the hose end fittings on reliably and without marring anything with wrench or vise was a bit of a learning process, but done now.

I've got a bit of a wonky setup with my alternator on the DS side and the power steering pump and reservoir on the PS side, so I've got hose routing that's a bit different from most. Mark / Breeze set me up with the right fittings and a bit of extra hose to get to the cooler I added. I used the 150* fittings to dive back down underneath the steering rack ...

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52245020971_0ae0ea92c5_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2nAHoxD)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2nAHoxD) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

Then I kinda wove the hoses through the X frame members. Rack 'in' straight over to the PS side and then to pump 'out', rack 'out' over to the PS cooler and then rearward to the reservoir. Grabbed both with hose clamps anchored to the vertical PS side frame member on their way:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52244046177_10ba217475_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2nACoLR)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2nACoLR) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

An attempt to capture the whole circuit in one photo:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52245515865_407a0c6376_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2nAKVEi)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2nAKVEi) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

Now I just need to get that coolant overflow tank mounted on the PS F panel, and then I think its time to add some fluids.

[Blitzboy54]

I get excited when John updates his build thread. Always so pretty.

[John Ibele]

I get excited when John updates his build thread. Always so pretty.

I appreciate that, because I realize that's all it's good for right now. I'm ready for it to move, and make some noise!

[John Ibele]

Continuing to get regular time in the garage, and making steady progress.

I got the overflow tank attached to the F panel and hooked up ... fits nice, and should have clearance with the hood hinge based on the dry fit of the hinge parts. I'll need to get those PC'd or paint them, since the older kit has the plain steel hinge brackets.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52258572211_d9cf99d550_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2nBUQRH)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2nBUQRH) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

Picked up the Valvoline Dex-cool product and couple of gallons of distilled water, so ready to fill the system once I get the additional 90* fitting for the top of the overflow tank. Not sure how many folks have had issues with air pockets in their Air-Gap PRM intake, and whether I need to remove my temp sensor to ensure no air bubbles there. I'm not keen on getting a $120 burping setup for one time use ... will just pull the temp sensor and fill 'til that's full, if that's an issue.

I decided on adding an oil air separator between PCV and the vacuum intake on the Sniper. Nice quality piece, and there was room on the firewall in just the right spot. "A lotta guys" would have bent the bracket the other way, and hidden both bracket and screws behind the separator. Totally off topic, but remember to double-check orientation of all brackets that you're about to bend before putting the hurt on 'em in the vice. Oh well, looks fine and on the bright side, the anodizing looks okay on the inside of the bend, and edges are easily touched up where I cut the bracket end off. Can't get wound up about the little things that only you will notice. In the end ... looks just fine.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52255936941_010445ec0a_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2nBFku2)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2nBFku2) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

And, changing chapters, I'm catching up on getting all my sound deadening material in place. That moves along pretty well once you get started, a few more hours on that should finish it off.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52258854714_595fca4394_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2nBWhQs)
by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

GasN side pipes and SS shields on order. I decided on the touring length side pipes, figuring it'll be plenty noisy regardless. But I'll put the kit steel side pipes in place for now. That's one on the list of remaining items as I get closer to first start.

[John Ibele]

I know, off topic, but ... it's always fun stumbling across the result of a happy collision between computer algorithms and the internet. I was taking a look for a leather shift boot for the roadster, for example, and ran into this:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52261841465_f9f1c39dec_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2nCcAGa)
Shift Boots (https://flic.kr/p/2nCcAGa) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

Okay, that's ... something like 30-40 shift boots purchased by each and every MK4 owner. Dang, I gotta check my records!

Seriously though. They look nice. So I'll probably buy ... one.

[JB in NOVA]

Okay, that's ... something like 30-40 shift boots purchased by each and every MK4 owner. Dang, I gotta check my records!

Yep, now that you mention it, I recall buying *checks notes* 50 of them myself!

[460.465USMC]

Hi John. Would you mind providing the link to the vendor? Want to make sure I get my fair share. :p

[John Ibele]

A bit of two steps forward and one back this weekend. With the power steering hoses hooked up and Honda power steering fluid in hand, I decided to fill the system over the weekend. Was greeted with a small pool of fluid on the garage floor under the reservoir on Sunday morning. The 6AN fitting was dry under the reservoir so that's not a problem. Lots of mating surface on the 10-AN connection, so I tightened that up a bit but still have a leak, maybe slower, I'm not sure. I then noticed there was some fluid pooled right around the bottom of the reservoir, above the 10AN hose and connector. Unless power steering fluid can wick up on metal, that raises concerns about the reservoir welds and the bottom of the reservoir itself. I now have duct tape wrapped around the exit from the reservoir, just above the connection to the 10AN hose. I should be able to tell if the fluid is running down the outside of the tape, which would mean the reservoir gets drained and replaced, or on the inside, in which case I have a problem with either my connection or my hose end. Not a huge step backward to drain the reservoir and replace if that's the case.

Meanwhile, plenty of other stuff to do. I finished off all the cockpit sound mat. The transmission tunnel top has the hole in the wrong place for my T5 shifter, so that's getting attention next. I have some extra blocking plates, so rather than getting a new tranny tunnel top, I'll patch the existing one and redrill in the right location. I'm planning on a padded & leather covered top, so the patch has to be absolutely flush with the top surface of the cover. I think this is a time when epoxy is a better choice than silicone (I'm not sealing two panels as much as creating one permanent panel). Unless someone chimes in with "bad idea", that's the direction I'm headed.

[John Ibele]

... and the verdict is ... power steering fluid on the outside of the tape, dry on the side. Tonight the reservoir comes out for return for a replacement.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52272975415_8287394eb1_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2nDbEqP)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2nDbEqP) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

[Zach Bohn]

I experienced the heater template issue as well, nice job!

[John Ibele]

I experienced the heater template issue as well, nice job!

Yeah, the heater template inaccuracy was on my radar, but my downfall was trying to 'improve' on the sheet metal screws that come with the heater. I'll think through things more carefully before trying something like that again (famous last words ...). In the end, thanks to those fasteners, I ended up where I wanted.

[John Ibele]

My wife and I got away for a weekend of sea kayaking in Lake Superior last weekend, so not much to report on the build front. Great weekend and big adventure on the lake.

I did manage to sneak out to the garage before and after the trip to make some progress on the tranny cover. With my T5 and Steeda shifter, the oval cutout location in the FFR cover doesn't quite work for me. I put in a patch using JBWeld, and held in place with some countersink / flush rivets. A little sanding after our trip and its ready to go.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52287583736_b465a94c7a_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2nEtwYq)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2nEtwYq) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52287849544_2d5a54c1cd_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2nEuTZj)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2nEuTZj) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

The 4" hole is about as big as I can go to stay inside the trim ring, but the Steeda rubber gasket still hits the edge of the hole in a few places ... a few relief notches should take care of that and still be under the trim ring.

My replacement power steering reservoir is due arrive in a few days, so I can hopefully take two steps forward again. If you ever have to do a defective part return to Summit, I hope your experience is as easy as mine was. I've done returns before, but when you select 'damaged or missing' in the online process, it seems targeted toward problems created by shipping. So I called. Less than 10 minutes later, I had a replacement part being shipped to me, with apologies for the inconvience and no need to return the defective part. I'm guessing they have a customer profile that tells them that's the right decision to make, but regardless of how they get there, that was top notch service.

[John Ibele]

Got my replacement reservoir in place and hoses hooked back up last night, was greeted with this when checking this morning ... same leak, same spot on the reservoir.

At some point, this might start to get frustrating.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52294610016_f069385537_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2nF6xDb)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2nF6xDb) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

Current plan is to call Summit and let them know they have more than a one-off kind of problem, and then either get a tested replacement unit or find an alternate unit. One that's more in line with the 'you get what you pay for' idea. Then fab a new bracket that fits the new reservoir. That fits the holes I've drilled and tapped in the frame.

[460.465USMC]

I put in a patch using JBWeld, and held in place with some countersink / flush rivets. A little sanding after our trip and its ready to go.

If you ever have to do a defective part return to Summit, I hope your experience is as easy as mine was. I've done returns before, but when you select 'damaged or missing' in the online process, it seems targeted toward problems created by shipping. So I called. Less than 10 minutes later, I had a replacement part being shipped to me, with apologies for the inconvience and no need to return the defective part. I'm guessing they have a customer profile that tells them that's the right decision to make, but regardless of how they get there, that was top notch service.

Looks like your tranny cover is getting into the shape you need. I like me some JB Weld too, John. Used it a number of times on my build. Great stuff!

Summit Racing customer service? Couldn't agree more with you! They have become one of my favorite online vendors. A few months back I mistakenly ordered the old school (green) coolant for my Coyote. The local shipping depot wanted $80+ to ship back two gallon jugs--"hazardous" materials and all. A little tough to stomach given the free shipping from Summit (orders over $99) to me. I called Summit and fessed up to my mistake. They gave me a refund for both gallon jugs, and didn't ask for me to return them. They treat me as if they want a customer for life. I'm in!

P.S. sorry to hear about your second round of power steering leak. You strike me as a man of patience. Hang in there!

[John Ibele]

Looks like your tranny cover is getting into the shape you need. I like me some JB Weld too, John. Used it a number of times on my build. Great stuff!

Summit Racing customer service? Couldn't agree more with you! They have become one of my favorite online vendors. A few months back I mistakenly ordered the old school (green) coolant for my Coyote. The local shipping depot wanted $80+ to ship back two gallon jugs--"hazardous" materials and all. A little tough to stomach given the free shipping from Summit (orders over $99) to me. I called Summit and fessed up to my mistake. They gave me a refund for both gallon jugs, and didn't ask for me to return them. They treat me as if they want a customer for life. I'm in!

P.S. sorry to hear about your second round of power steering leak. You strike me as a man of patience. Hang in there!

Thanks, Chris. I know every build has a thing or two like this, or worse. Nothing like having to pull a radiator to get a weld fixed, for example. In the meantime I’ve got other things to do to keep pushing toward first start - roll bars, side pipes, final checkout of wiring, but other than that the list is getting pretty short. Good motivation to keep forging ahead.

[Blitzboy54]

I personally hate running over the same real estate twice. It's actually a dysfunction of mine I have to push through so I feel your pain.


How is that fitting attached to the reservoir? is that welded, pressed in, or threaded? I'm curious if there is an opportunity to improve that item.

[John Ibele]

I personally hate running over the same real estate twice. It's actually a dysfunction of mine I have to push through so I feel your pain.


How is that fitting attached to the reservoir? is that welded, pressed in, or threaded? I'm curious if there is an opportunity to improve that item.

Hey Jesse, welded on the inside of the reservoir, so the gap that shows isn’t directly indicative of a problem. I’ll give Summit a ring to let them know there’s a problem with that product. Would’a done it earlier but I picked up a drill to put holes in roll bars. Seemed like a good way to blow off steam :rolleyes:

[John Ibele]

Roll bars are in. Sharp drill bits and stepping up to 5/16" worked fine for me. I did do some filing at the end of one of the rear bars to get everything flush at the joint.

I decided to use 3/8-16 SS set screws to attach the rear reinforcing bar to the roll bar. This is not a recommendation, simply a personal choice. I figured shearing this would take a rough trip upside down and backwards in the car, and in that case, the fact that I used 3/8" SS set screws rather than the 5/16" frankenstein bolts wouldn't show up on my list of regrets.

Looks pretty good, I think. With a lighter stripe and roll bar color they should blend in even better. I put the set screw on the inside facing part of the bar, so it doesn't show from the front, rear, or near side of the car when you're on the side.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52299510476_e1ccea4eec_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2nFwEnS)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2nFwEnS) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52299775594_fb53afb856_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2nFy2bS)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2nFy2bS) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

[460.465USMC]

The set screws disappear into the background well, John. Clever idea!

[John Ibele]

Installed my single homemade line clamp to attach the 3/8" hard fuel line in the engine bay. Holy cow, I'd have to get more efficient and add a few key bench tools if I were going to make any more. Not for this car.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52304772601_81f6c10761_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2nFZCCa)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2nFZCCa) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

[Mike.Bray]

Installed my single homemade line clamp to attach the 3/8" hard fuel line in the engine bay. Holy cow, I'd have to get more efficient and add a few key bench tools if I were going to make any more. Not for this car.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52304772601_81f6c10761_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2nFZCCa)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2nFZCCa) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

That's where a bulkhead fitting and a simple piece of aluminum angle comes in handy.
https://www.imagecoast.com/images/MichaelBray1/20220707095922mediumrotated.jpg

[Blitzboy54]

Roll bars are in. Sharp drill bits and stepping up to 5/16" worked fine for me. I did do some filing at the end of one of the rear bars to get everything flush at the joint.

I decided to use 3/8-16 SS set screws to attach the rear reinforcing bar to the roll bar. This is not a recommendation, simply a personal choice. I figured shearing this would take a rough trip upside down and backwards in the car, and in that case, the fact that I used 3/8" SS set screws rather than the 5/16" frankenstein bolts wouldn't show up on my list of regrets.

Looks pretty good, I think. With a lighter stripe and roll bar color they should blend in even better. I put the set screw on the inside facing part of the bar, so it doesn't show from the front, rear, or near side of the car when you're on the side.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52299510476_e1ccea4eec_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2nFwEnS)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2nFwEnS) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52299775594_fb53afb856_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2nFy2bS)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2nFy2bS) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

This is dadgum genius John. Mine are currently un bolted as I didn't want the big bolt. In reality the bolt doesn't really do very much. It is secured from 3 points and on a sleeve. It can't really come loose but it does have just enough movement that it clanks a bit. I am going to copy this very soon.

[John Ibele]

This is dadgum genius John. Mine are currently un bolted as I didn't want the big bolt. In reality the bolt doesn't really do very much. It is secured from 3 points and on a sleeve. It can't really come loose but it does have just enough movement that it clanks a bit. I am going to copy this very soon.

I thought so too, Jesse, which is why I copied another builder who didn’t happen to put it in their build thread :cool:

[John Ibele]

That's where a bulkhead fitting and a simple piece of aluminum angle comes in handy.
https://www.imagecoast.com/images/MichaelBray1/20220707095922mediumrotated.jpg

Faster, just as secure and good looking. Which just underscores why your lines look so awesome on your build. Looks great Mike!

[egchewy79]

This is dadgum genius John. Mine are currently un bolted as I didn't want the big bolt. In reality the bolt doesn't really do very much. It is secured from 3 points and on a sleeve. It can't really come loose but it does have just enough movement that it clanks a bit. I am going to copy this very soon.

520 speedworks offers a boltless roll bar kit as another option as well.

[Mike.Bray]

I went with the Breeze roll bar for a variety of reasons. I don't like the "paperclip" tall bar from FFR, the Breeze ones is more like the original in tube size and height. And the fasteners are hidden under the body.

https://www.imagecoast.com/images/MichaelBray1/20220707153642mediumrotated.jpg

[John Ibele]

Chewy, Mike, good options to highlight, and I seriously considered both. I just decided to keep my money in my pocket for this round.

[Blitzboy54]

520 speedworks offers a boltless roll bar kit as another option as well.

Understood, It's also $160 for 2 roll bars and I already drilled my back tube. Getting all that to bind correctly and line up to the existing holes seems like a challenge.

[John Ibele]

I'm going with this for now. There will be plenty of time with the body off to put on a filter if I smell gas, if not time to figure out how gasoline vapors can be simultaneously heavier and lighter than air in order to get through the vent hose.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52306816066_be9652b663_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2nGb75j)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2nGb75j) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

[John Ibele]

Well, not much in terms of pictures or description of concrete progress to report, but it's not for lack of time in the garage. I'm soooooo close to first start, just have to verify spark and timing for the plug from #1, add coolant and fuel, and turn the key.

What's holding me up is the final checkout of wiring, and a problem with a short or low resistance to ground that is kicking my butt. I had checked each circuit - I thought - before moving the dash and dash harness to the car, but I obviously missed something. I've narrowed it down to the headlight wiring behind the dash. I've used the RT turn signal setup, and my stomp switch on the deadpedal is basically just the same wiring as is used for the standard dash switch. I added a relay to use the momentary switch on the turn stalk for flash-to-pass, but plenty of folks have done that and the circuit design for that is pretty clear and available elsewhere on the forum. So I need to go through that again to see if I can find the problem.

Everything works, but the first sign that something is wrong is that when I turn on the high beams, either with lights on and the stomp switch hit once, or done with the momentary on the turn stalk, I see a slight glow in my turn signal dash lights. Checking voltage read at a ground wire behind the dash, I have an alarming 9V ... wondering why I didn't let smoke out at that point ... and a low resistance (77 Ohm) between the dash ground wire and the 12V on my bus bar behind the dash.

So, something clearly not right. Hard to get help from the forum until I can formulate a more specific, coherent question. Frustrating, but as can be said about just about any builder, I'm nothing if not persistent. I'll find it.

[Nigel Allen]

G'day John,

I think you might have a bad ground connection. This is usually the case when you see other lamps glow when a high load like the headlamp is turned on. Current will try and find it’s way back to ground any way it can, If it passes through a lamp on the way, then the filament will likely glow.

Tracing the fault:
1. Measure DC volts between the battery negative post and the ground wire behind the dash. With the high beam switched on you should see less than 1 volt of drop between these 2 points. Any more than that will definitely indicate a bad ground connection between battery negative and your ground wire.
2. Make sure you also measure your battery volts with the high beam on, maybe your battery is weak also.

As for the electrical short:
A measurement of 77 ohms between the ground wire and the positive bus is not something to be concerned about as far as a short circuit.
Current = Voltage/Resistance = 12/77 = 0.16 amps.
0.16 amps will discharge your battery in a week or 2, but is definitely not considered a short. Maybe you were measuring your gauge lights or similar low current device that was switched on?

Let us know how you get on. Always happy to help.

Nigel

[Ted G]

I feel you John.... Been frustrated with my electrical too. I had everything perfect and then, after adding my dashboard and tightening up the "rats nest" I had no turn signal. I traced it to the ignition feed where I had used a cheaper connection that failed. My $1 connector cost me 3-4 hours of tracing. Replaced that connector with a $11 Weather Pack and no issues since. You get what you pay for. Looking forward to your first start... I'm not far behind you.

Ted

[Jeff Kleiner]

John,
I'm with Nigel and it sounds like it's seeking a ground. A quick check in the interest of isolation is to unplug the headlights and try it; this will remove the big draw load from the circuit. If you still get the glow it would indicate an issue with the dashboard high beam indicator or it's associated wiring.

Good luck...these sort of gremlins can drive you batty!

Jeff

[John Ibele]

Ted, Nigel, Jeff, thanks a bunch for the encouragement and the tips and reminders. I'm fairly confident based on both Nigel and Jeff's suggestions that I'm dealing with a ground / wiring issue on the dash or within the dash harness, which would significantly help in bounding the problem. From there I should be able to trace it ... good weekend project.

[460.465USMC]

So close to first start, John! Really looking forward to hearing your build come to life and rumble!

I think it's difficult to get to First Start without at least one electrical stutter-step. I had mine. Best wishes for getting it tracked down and resolved this weekend. Reading about some of your other cool solutions, I know you'll get to the root cause in short order. Just don't feed that Gremlin after midnight, expose it to light, or let it get wet. :p

[John Ibele]

Well, that wasn't so bad after all.

I have LED dash lights, and after experiencing the full strength of these things in a dim garage and practically searing my eyeballs, I decided I wasn't going to live with those on a nighttime drive.

So I triggered a relay with the headlight switch, and I used this to toggle between a direct connection to ground for the dash lights when the headlights are off, to a second path through an LED dimmer when the headlights are on.

It's important to remember this when you're trying to diagnose a problem, because when you turn on the headlight switch, the ground for the dash lights doesn't read as ground on a multimeter. It will give you flaky voltage and resistance readings as the dimmer is connecting and interrupting the ground connection many times per second.

So ... wiring is good as far as it goes, but I still get 3 dimly lit dash lights whenever a fourth one is ON in dimmed condition, due to some back voltage induced by the PWM dimmer providing intermittent ground to the lit light (plus the other ones that are not on).

That's all well and good. I could leave the system as is without a problem. But dimly lit dash lights scream "home-built, quirky kit car", which is not a vibe I want to give off. So I tried using a diode in various spots to address the back voltage. Across the dimmer ... no good. Upstream and downstream from a dash light ... still no good. Finally I tried a diode across one of the dash lights, and this almost eliminates the problem. But not quite.

Does anyone know the right diode to use as a flyback diode in this situation? Of course I can do the Google search route but I'm happy to simply ask for the expertise of the builders on the forum at this point.

Worst case? I'll have a quirky feature on my home-built, quirky roadster. And be happy with it. Sure as heck not going to live with full-strength LED dash lights when driving at night. Every build is full of choices.

[Gizmosrcool]

John

How about a dimmer switch for the dash lights? I saw this thread. Maybe the recommended dimmer switch would help

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?38593-Vintage-gauges-and-wiring

Tom

[John Ibele]

John

How about a dimmer switch for the dash lights? I saw this thread. Maybe the recommended dimmer switch would help

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?38593-Vintage-gauges-and-wiring



Tom

Thanks Tom. The link you included relates to dimming the gauge lights, and with an older kit, I avoided the confusion created by Speed Hut’s change to the gauges. I should have been more specific: I converted to LED turn signal, bright indicator and hazard lights, and it’s these I’m working on dimming. With the right diode I should have it solved.

[John Ibele]

I made up 3 of these - one for each dash light with the problem - and installed across the two turn indicators and the high beam indicator light. The hazard light is wired with a 515 Ohm resistor across it already.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52366934792_6b1f8a27aa_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2nMueh5)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2nMueh5) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

With dash lights now hooked into this setup, the glow through the non-lit lights when I'm using the PWM dimmer goes away. Everything works right on the dash now, so I'm moving on.

[John Ibele]

The first part of the weekend was devoted to closing up things 'up North', but so-called rest day yesterday allowed for 6 hours in the garage. I love those big chunks of time when you can get into the flow of work on the car; they're much more productive than those hour long chunks that have represented the bulk of my build time. That can sometimes be an exercise in frustration, but the only greater frustration I can think of is not building one at all.

I've been sneaking up on first start items all week. I had disconnected all the Sniper electrical connections when first hooking up the dash and testing all functions with the battery hooked up. Once I had that all working properly, I hooked up the Sniper with the exception of the fuel relay connection to the fuel pump, which I'm leaving disconnected for now. After spending some time with the Sniper handheld screen I concluded that I'm ready to go with the Sniper. It has the same settings and distributor orientation as it had when it came off the dyno, so it should be ready to go.

Oil pressure and coolant temp look as though they're working, and the TPS went up to 86% when I bottomed out the gas pedal. There was a bit of room left on the throttle linkage, so after adjusting my stop botton for the accelerator I got the TPS to read 90% ... virtually indistiguishable from 100% in terms of position at the Sniper, so I'm leaving it there. I'd rather that than be pushing the mechanical throttle to the point of bottoming out.

I turned the key to the start position briefly, just to make sure the starter engages properly with the flywheel. All good to go there.

I had taped off around the bottom of my power steering reservoir to see if the bottom of the reservoir will stay fluid-free ... after 2 days, it's completely dry. So any slow leak has to be from one of my hose connections, which may be wicking up to the bottom of the reservoir (not sure that's a thing, but that's my only theory left for how I acculated a drop of fluid on the bottom of the reservoir after several days). I gave the 10AN fitting another turn of the wrench ... there's a fair amount of mating surface on that connection, so maybe I didn't have it tight enough. I'll check it again this evening.

I picked up some Li-based chassis grease, loaded up the grease gun and greased all 14 lube points in the front of the car. I'm a little confused by the drive shaft lube points ... I see no zerk fittings anywhere on my (vintage 2012) drive shaft. I'll take off the trans cover and look from above this evening, but I don't think I'm missing anything. I sent Dan at FFR a quick note to verify, but if anyone on the forum has the answer I'm all ears.

Last on this item is to lube the IRS grease points ... only control arm ends, I believe. My second question to Dan was whether I should add zerk fittings to any control arm ends that don't have them. I greased these when I assembled the rear end, so they're at least okay for now.

I greased the turn signal flags on the RT turn signal assembly with some lithium bearing grease, loosened the set screws on the pillow block for the upper steering shaft, tightened down the steering wheel, set it to minimum clearance from the RT turn signal assembly, and tightened down the set screws again. Steering is good to go.

I added 2 1/2 gallons of non-oxy premium to the gas tank.

So I think that leaves me with this punch list:



Finish with chassis lube.
Lower the rear end, and add coolant (with car tilted to encourage air to move to the front and out the coolant fill spot).
Plug in the fuel pump relay, and turn the key with the fuel line directed into a gas can. Repeat two more times to flush any contaminants and metal shavings out of the fuel lines.
Hook the fuel line back up to the Sniper.
Gather a few family members & friends if I'm feeling courageous.
Set video to 'record'.
Turn the key.


Let me know if you spot anything I'm missing.

[460.465USMC]

I picked up some Li-based chassis grease, loaded up the grease gun and greased all 14 lube points in the front of the car. I'm a little confused by the drive shaft lube points ... I see no zerk fittings anywhere on my (vintage 2012) drive shaft. I'll take off the trans cover and look from above this evening, but I don't think I'm missing anything. I sent Dan at FFR a quick note to verify, but if anyone on the forum has the answer I'm all ears.


That's a very small list, John. You're almost there! Good to hear you've eliminated your power steering pump as the leak source.

My driveshaft (circa 2020) doesn't have any zerks either.

I don't recall how long your motor has been sitting? In my case it was about 1.5 years, so I primed the motor by pumping in a couple quarts of oil through the oil pressure switch connection. Maybe you already did this? Throwing it out there just in case.

[facultyofmusic]

Let me know if you spot anything I'm missing.

Like Chris said I also primed my engine before the first start. Other that everything looks good John! Let's hear it!

[John Ibele]

Well, it finally happened. Here, in all its first-time-builder glory (it is a video, click picture or this link (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/52410992431/in/album-72157650336431823/lightbox/)):

https://live.staticflickr.com/31337/52410992431_58a04683ff_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2nRo35x)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2nRo35x) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

Clearly I didn't expect the power steering fluid to cycle through with that much pressure, or that quickly ... or the coolant to slosh around quite so much.

Yucks aside, like most builders I don't like surprises. REALLY didn't like burping fluid on my engine. But after thinking about that a bit, I reminded myself you can't learn absolutely everything from talking and reading, you actually have to learn some things by doing. And mistakes like this are benign, easily learned, practical stuff. So no harm done.

My favorite part, though, is my flinch when the thing fired right up. Yikes, why didn't someone tell me these things make noise :rolleyes:

Second time around, things were a bit more predictable (click picture or this link (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/52411434905/in/album-72157650336431823/lightbox/)):

https://live.staticflickr.com/31337/52411434905_67f59160af_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2nRqiBp)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2nRqiBp) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

To maximize chances of starting up promptly the first time, I stepped up to first start in stages:



Checked out all my dash wiring on the bench with a couple 6V lantern batteries in series (would be better off with a current-limited power supply, good to have current protection in place even here)
With the dash on the car, disconnected the fuel pump relay connection to the fuel pump, disconnected the Sniper connectors.
Hooked up the battery and ensured proper operation of all non-Sniper connections with key in OFF and RUN positions.
Turned key to START briefly just to ensure proper engagement of starter motor to flywheel.
Hooked up Sniper connections but not the fuel relay / fuel pump, turned key to RUN and ensured proper operation of Sniper and familiarized myself with handheld interface.
Disconnected flex fuel hose connection to Sniper and put end of hose in a gas can. Reconnected fuel relay to fuel pump. Cycled through key position OFF / RUN / OFF three times to flush fuel lines. Reconnected fuel hose to Sniper.
Turned key to RUN to ensure proper fuel pressure at the fuel pressure gauge I installed just before the Sniper.
My builder wasn't honestly very concerned about priming the engine after a long rest, and was much more concerned about ensuring that the engine wouldn't flood. I wanted to make sure I had 15* timing before starting the car:

Again disconnected the fuel pump relay, and temporarily pulled all spark plug wires.
Checked to ensure I had a spark at 15* on cylinder #1


Connected all connectors, ready for first start.



Overall, very happy reaching this milestone, and having it go so well with all the important things which I did work to nail down in advance. I'm off in CO this week for a wedding and a nice break with the family, after which I'm excited for some more extended runs to make sure the Sniper gets into learning mode and the fan kicks on. After that, alignment and go-kart as the next big thing in the build, which should set me up pretty well for working on the body when the snow's flying in MN.

[facultyofmusic]

John congratulations! I too had that twitch haha, it's a surreal feeling! Glad everything went well and I COMPLETELY understand the need for a break afterwards. All the anxiety built up needs to be released somehow :P. Hope you enjoy your break and can't wait to see your first go kart!

P.S. I love the big RF harness schematics on the side.

[BRRT]

Congratulations!! Very cool!


---------------------------

Jeff

[John Ibele]

P.S. I love the big RF harness schematics on the side.


... eyes of a certain age'll do that to you :)

[460.465USMC]

Congrats, John! Way to go! Been anticipating this video and it didn't disappoint! Yeah, sure, it burbled a little fluid out, but it started easily and sounds fantastic!

P.S. Yep...X2 on flinching when mine fired the first time. Appreciate you sharing the video.

[John Ibele]

Thanks a bunch Chris, big milestone for sure.

I asked my wife if she heard the car when I started it up. “From the front of the house, the back of the house, anywhere in the house” was the response. This with a detached garage, and soundproofed windows since we're close to the airport. When someone honks their horn in front you can’t hear it in the house.

Good. It sounds like a Cobra.

[John Ibele]

Not sure why this hadn't struck me earlier, but yesterday I felt a little guilty thinking about all those newer builders working around their POL lists, sometimes in ingenious fashion. Nothing to do about that, but at least I can show that I've been paying attention to the car with the time available by posting an update.

After the rushed first start, it was time to head off to a week vacation in CO to do some hiking, visit some old friends and head to a wedding on the weekend. Wow, just a joy soaking up all that sunshine, and there's nothing like that contrast between yellow aspen leaves and healthy conifers when you're out hiking on a sunny day. We stayed in Boulder and hiked around there during the week, and did a drive through Rocky Mountain NP to check that off the list. I thought about checking in with CO folks from the forum but there just wasn't time. Hopefully next time. One shot to show it happened ...

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52438895862_b851c01f9b_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2nTR3Nb)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2nTR3Nb) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

After returning I did a more extended run to check out the Sniper. It ran rough when I started it, died once or twice when coming down to idle, and in general didn't sound too happy. Definitely sounded and smelled like it was running rich. I read a bunch and watched the Holley videos, and followed that up with a flash of the latest software and files that go on the SD card of the handheld, with a subsequent flash of the ECU. Pretty straightforward stuff. I'll do an extended run this weekend, run it up to learning temperature and then set idle following the Holley instructions. If things are still off, I figure it's either reading lean at the O2 sensor due to a leak somewhere, or it just can't get enough air at idle (which should be fixed after I go through the idle / IAC procedure). Since I'm using the kit side pipes temporarily I'm using the clamped-on version of O2 mounting instead of a welded bung. Not a great solution in my mind and not my long term plan, but it seems tight, solid, and there's plenty of gasket material in there, but I'll keep that in mind as a potential problem source. A welded bung will go into the touring pipes when they come from GasN (wait ... I DO have a POL item, kinda :rolleyes:).

One low, my water temp gauge isn't registering, so I'll have to figure that out. I reseated everything and checked continuity up to the main harness connector, which checked out fine. Unfortunately when you solder in gauges directly, you can't check continuity all the way to the gauge very easily. Still, a pretty easy problem to diagnose, with only 3 things that could contribute as far as I can tell: sensor, wires, gauge. The gauge needle does cycle at power on.

On the plus side, the temp does report through the handheld, the Sniper goes into learning mode at 160*, and the fan got switched on by the Sniper through the relay at the set temperature, so the wiring is sound and the engine is safe for intial runs until I get the dash gauge sorted.

Meanwhile, I've been working on finishing off the console, getting the dash permanently set, and putting in some aux power. I made up 3 dash support brackets, one for each side of the steering wheel and one above the console. I also have two brackets to tie the PS grab handle directly to the frame through the dash. Between them all the dash is rock solid.

I put a 12V Aux plug on the left side dash support that I made. I thought this was a great idea for easily connecting a trickle charger without having to get under the hood (thanks Paul!). I also put a USB power plug under the middle dash support. It will be accessible through the console cubby I made (along with the main power disconnect). I did an 'always on' connection straight to the 12V bus bar using the in-line fuse that came with the plug. But I also left the radio power terminal nearby in case I decide I'd rather have the USB switched rather than always on. If the eerie blue light around the USB shows through the cubby when the car is off I think it's time to go with the switched option.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52443097035_a9965c77b0_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2nUdzEc)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2nUdzEc) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52443170023_4b12afd99f_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2nUdXmB)
by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

Next up is finishing up the tranny cover and the console box. All my tools for alignment are in, so that's next. Not much time this weekend with all the yardwork that needs to get done before the snow flies. The week after is 'car guy' weekend, with my brother coming over from Madison ... should be able to get the alignment done then, and take it for a spin.

[Papa]

Not sure why this hadn't struck me earlier, but yesterday I felt a little guilty thinking about all those newer builders working around their POL lists, sometimes in ingenious fashion. Nothing to do about that, but at least I can show that I've been paying attention to the car with the time available by posting an update.

After the rushed first start, it was time to head off to a week vacation in CO to do some hiking, visit some old friends and head to a wedding on the weekend. Wow, just a joy soaking up all that sunshine, and there's nothing like that contrast between yellow aspen leaves and healthy conifers when you're out hiking on a sunny day. We stayed in Boulder and hiked around there during the week, and did a drive through Rocky Mountain NP to check that off the list. I thought about checking in with CO folks from the forum but there just wasn't time. Hopefully next time. One shot to show it happened ....

You picked the absolute best time of year to visit Colorado. Not too hot, beautiful fall colors, still plenty of sunshine.

How long did you have the car at operating temp? Depending on the location of your CTS for the gauge, you may need to wait until the t-stat opens before it will register temperature correctly. Also, from my experience with the Sniper, the fuel enrichment values when cold are super rich, something like 150% at initial startup. The IAC and idle adjustment in the quick start guide will definitely get your idle close.

Dave

[John Ibele]

You picked the absolute best time of year to visit Colorado. Not too hot, beautiful fall colors, still plenty of sunshine.

How long did you have the car at operating temp? Depending on the location of your CTS for the gauge, you may need to wait until the t-stat opens before it will register temperature correctly. Also, from my experience with the Sniper, the fuel enrichment values when cold are super rich, something like 150% at initial startup. The IAC and idle adjustment in the quick start guide will definitely get your idle close.

Dave

Hey Dave! Yeah, still kinda basking in the afterglow of that vacation. Seems almost as effective an antidote to that winter MN gray as a February getaway. I'll get back to CO again soon for sure.

Water temp ... I have the CTS sensor on the PS side, tapped into the intake manifold just behind the thermostat. Fan kicked in at 190, learning mode kicked in 160, so good to go there I think.

For the Speedhut gauge I have the sensor in the same spot on intake manifold but on the DS side ... definitely looked at the gauge after the CTS was above 160, and it didn't register. But you know how that goes with the initial run ... a bit of information overload. Didn't even get to jiggling connections at that point.

Thanks for the confirmation on running rich at cold initially ... hopefully can sort that this weekend.

[Papa]

Here are the coolant enrichment values on my tune. I know the ECUs are different, but these values may be a good comparison to the default Sniper values for you to work from.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=173975&d=1666376483

[Papa]

Here is a snap of my IAC settings (for reference):

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=173976&d=1666377124

[John Ibele]

Here is a snap of my IAC settings (for reference):

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=173976&d=1666377124

Thanks Papa Dave! This will help. I remember reading about a setting that needs to be adjusted in a value we both have to pay attention to ... -40F :( Good for comparison as a start at least.

[460.465USMC]

John, your underdash brackets turned out really nice. I kind of geek out when I see quality like that...even though they won't be visible to those who admire your finished Roadster someday. I bet that extra bend on the sides really stiffens things up.

P.S. the entire name of your build thread changed with your last update. Not sure if you meant to do that?

[John Ibele]

John, your underdash brackets turned out really nice. I kind of geek out when I see quality like that...even though they won't be visible to those who admire your finished Roadster someday. I bet that extra bend on the sides really stiffens things up.

P.S. the entire name of your build thread changed with your last update. Not sure if you meant to do that?

Hey Chris thanks - not sure how I did that. Brackets … yep, but I’m hoping my time staring at em … on my back, scrunched in the cockpit … are over. I’m envious of your lift but it doesn’t make that part of the build easier.