BDS 818c Build Thread!

[bds818dwk]

Hello FFR 818 peeps! I'm Devin, have been lurking here for over a year, planning my 818c build, and my wife ordered the kit for me as a Christmas present! (Yes, she is a pretty awesome wife). Should be delivered just prior to my birthday in early March, so it is likely going to double as a birthday present as well!

I wanted to get my build thread started, as my kit completion date nears. 818c kit will be completed at FFR 2/17/2018, being delivered by Stewart to Albuquerque, NM. I am not aware of any 818 kits in New Mexico, so this should be the first in the state!

I am 30, MS in Mechanical Engineering from UNM, and was also Lead Engineer on our 2012 UNM FSAE team, so am pretty familiar with what it takes to build a car, and am privy to suspension design and terminology. Just wanted to get that out there to provide some context when it comes to Q&A (and so if I say something stupid, you all can feel free to call me out without any hesitation!)

My goals for the 818c are to have something totally unique that I can tell people "I built it". Will mostly be used as a mean street machine, but will also frequent SCCA solo events, and Track days as I can accommodate. (We have a small local track with a decent infield course, but I hope to get out to some of the regional road courses on open track days. Some of the features I have chosen are certainly more "racecar", but I personally would rather keep my 818c more racecar. It may be a bit rough on the streets, but to me, that is part of it.

Power goals: 400-450hp (400+ ft-lb)


My kit details:
818c LHD, un-coated chassis, 2-way adj. Konis, wilwood pedal box, street splitter, street spoiler, diffuser, canards, rocker extensions, vinyl dash/door panel kit, carpet kit, trunk kit (yes, took full "advantage" of the end-of-year sale)

Donor: It started as 2005 STi, but have ended up selling and buying a bunch of stuff to piece together my "ultimate" parts bin:

Parts kept from the 2005 STi:
Front aluminum lower control arms
Front and rear hubs
Brembo calipers and rotors
ABS
Wiring harness & ECU (will likely get an iWire harness once everything is laid out appropriately)
And a handful of miscellaneous other parts, but thats bout it thats left! lol!

Remainder of required parts:
Rebuilt shortblock with forged internals
ej207 big port heads chambered for 2.5L
Fluidampr
12mm JDM oil pump
Mishimoto Rad & hi-flow fans
Gates Blue Racing Timing belt kit & water pump
OTL Performance Coilpacks
IAG TGV deletes
Top-feed fuel rails & ID1300x injectors
DW300c Fuel Pump
Tomioka twin scroll header & up-pipe
Blouch TS 1.5xtr
Zero db AWIC kit
Mishimoto 19row Remote Oil cooler setup
JDM RA 5-spd transmission (4.44) with Cusco 1.5 Type RS (also have a spare RA with the Factory helical LSD)
Moore 2.0 Blast Plates
Stage 1 HD clutch
ACT Prolite Flywheel
MR2 Sw20 Shifter
Zero db bellcrank shifter
SPC adj. Rear lateral links
TSS FAB Rear trailing arms (should have a decent amount of clearance for wider wheels)
2015 STi 13:1 steering rack
Eibach 3-way adj. rear (now front) sway bar (also have factory RSB)
Superpro Anti-lift kit
ProDrive STi Gauge Cluster
Miro 111 18x8.5 +35, 225/35r18 Federal SS595 fronts, 18x9.5 +40, 255/35r18 Federal 595 RS-R rears

Am surely forgetting some things, and I will try to keep this list updated for contingency.

I know I will have to modify the hub-to-upper A-arm bracket to accomodate the STi hubs, but that should be no big deal. I also read about some modification required to run the 13:1 STi steering rack, but that was not detailed very well, so that will take some on-the-fly engineering. ABS will likely be a pain, but I think it is a necessary evil, given the weight of the car, and brembo front calipers. I wish I could track down a Racelogic TC setup, but since they have discontinued them, I haven't seen one for sale in the past 18 months. I someone knows of a comparable TC setup, please advise!

As for the fuel tank, I am planning on running e85, so I am hesitant to purchase the boyd tank right of the bat, due to capacity concerns. However, I don't know if I qualify as a "sasquatch", but I am 6'1", 230lb so legroom, etc. is one of my worries. A front tank isn't out of the question, but want to avoid the dynamic CG movement as the e85 is slurped by 1300cc injectors!

Please feel free to question or comment on anything here, I will not take offense, and enjoy getting as many opinions as possible on this stuff, especially from those that have already experienced it themselves!

If you notice anything that doesn't make sense, or you think won't work well, say something! I feel that is where the most constructive convos on forums stem from.


Anyways, I will start posting pics when the kit arrives, including the obligatory "unloading" shots.

Thank you all in advance, and I am super excited to get started!!

[Canadian818]

Sounds like you have done your research and have a good plan. I too plan to push the RA gearbox, mine has the factory LSD. Not sure if I’m going to buy the blast plates or make my own, they’re pretty pricey. Good luck with the build!

[AZPete]

Welcome to the madness. You've certainly done your homework. You said ABS would be a pain but I have ABS utilizing the donor module and it requires some head-scratching due to the diagonal setup, but it's not a pain. Check on the FFR trunk kit because I think it is made for the 818S, not the 818C. OTOH, see the build thread of Insurance Guy because he adapted the FFR truck kit to fit his 818C. You are about to start a really fun adventure!!

[phil1734]

Great to have another FSAE alum here to pick apart the 818 design.

Initial thoughts - 400-450 hp is serious overkill. Somewhere out there is a video of an 818 with 400 that Wayne built(IIRC) that continuously breaks the tires loose in 4th gear. I personally think 300 is about the most you'd ever be able to use, and there would be far better gains in broadening your torque curve and reducing turbo lag.

-I have an S so I can't confirm this, but I don't believe the trunk kit is really compatible with the C. It'll fit in place, but there will be next to to way to get anything in or out of it. (It's designed to fit under the smaller, secondary rear deck lid, and partially attaches to the forward one, neither of which exist on a C.)

-If you're going more race-car than show-car, coat the chassis before any assembly. Unless you're planning significant modifications it'll be far easier just to touch up any areas you may change. The FFR powdercoat is cheap but mine has held up far better than I expected.

-About your only option for seats at that height will be the Kirkeys, bolted directly to the floor.

-You'll obviously want a different wheel/tire stagger, but that's a bit down the road.

-If I were starting over again, I'd skip the carpet and vinyl wrap all the cockpit aluminum. Even the coupes aren't really weather proof and everything is constantly getting dusty/sandy/full of kitty liter sizes rocks.

-Also pick up the Breeze coolant tubes. Those aren't something you want to have to retro-fit later.

[Shawn818c]

First of all congratulations on your 818c and welcome to the forum!

I agree mostly with phil1734's comments regarding your build plan.

HP goals are very lofty for a vehicle this light. you'll have issues with traction and the FFR supplied axles.

Scrap the FFR trunk and if needed fabricate something on your own if needed.

I too would recommend the FFR powder coat, it is inexpensive and I would consider the quality to be OK. I went with an uncoated chassis and regretting the first task in the build to be cleaning/degreasing, etching and then painting the chassis...

Forget the Gates TB and WP. get either a Continental or Aisin kit along with an OEM WP. The Gates components have dropped off in quality significantly in the last 1-2 years.

[bds818dwk]

-If you're going more race-car than show-car, coat the chassis before any assembly. Unless you're planning significant modifications it'll be far easier just to touch up any areas you may change. The FFR powdercoat is cheap but mine has held up far better than I expected.

-About your only option for seats at that height will be the Kirkeys, bolted directly to the floor. Can anyone else also comment on this? I haven’t picked seats yet, hoping to get the tank situation figured, and find something that’ll fit. I figured whatever option was going to be directly bolted to the floor

-You'll obviously want a different wheel/tire stagger, but that's a bit down the road. What are the concerns with the current stagger? (225/35r18, 255/35r18) This is something that I tried to research here a good amount, and that’s where I came up with the tire sizes. The wheel sizes are a bit different than most are running, but I want 18’s for aesthetics, and the widths seem to jive with what others have fit previously. The overall diameters are pretty close to what others have run as well.

-Also pick up the Breeze coolant tubes. Those aren't something you want to have to retro-fit later. Have been contemplating these, but since I was thinking a front tank may be necessary, I didn’t pull the trigger yet (Looks like the routing would preclude a front-mounted fuel tank)


Thanks for the input! Will definitely take all advice into consideration! Only have a few more weeks to plan, then it’s time to jump in the deep end!

[phil1734]

Sorry, I read the wheel size as 255 all around (as they would come off a WRX/STi,). What you've spec'd should work well, though you may run into rubbing issues on the front firewall at full lock, but that can be solved with some rack limiters.

If you do go with the Kirkeys, make sure to get the extra lumbar support block. They take them from a marginal level of comfort to as good as anything else. I'm about 6' and with them have plenty of helmet clearance now, though I would love an additional 2-3 inches in leg room.

[lance corsi]

Welcome to the build-your-own world! You're in for a difficult but rewarding hobby. There's lots of good advice on this forum. Do you know of project creep? Add up your alotted goodies plus the donor pieces and the kit cost, then add between 25-100%! Things change, parts don't always play well together, you see something along the way that you want to incorporate into your car, part quality can be an issue, etc. ! Good luck with your dream!

[lance corsi]

I believe I read that Boyd welding has quit supplying fuel tanks for us. Too bad because their quality is top notch.

[Rob T]

Welcome aboard. I have an R with 320RWHP (290ft-lb) tune running Hoosiers Coming out of a turn, it is very easy to break the back end loose in third gear. The Cobb has a 340HP and a 360HP tune in it if I want to run race gas. I'll have to be a lot better driver first. Big fun. I have DSS axles as the other CV's were bad. I never launch hard.

[EODTech87]

I believe I read that Boyd welding has quit supplying fuel tanks for us. Too bad because their quality is top notch.

They still supply fuel tanks they just aren't a paid sponsor of the forum.

[13BRV3]

Congrats on the new build! I'm probably where you were a year ago, so thanks for starting a thread to let the future builders follow along.

Cheers,
Rusty

[aquillen]

Gotta loves the wives that support our projects. Mine even said - let's go buy a house with garage you can build your 818 in. Enjoy the project, not many things come even close to the range of activities you get to learn/do building one of these. Fun.

[bds818dwk]

It finally made it!! After the third or fourth nor-Easter I wasn’t sure Stewart was ever going to be able to pick up my kit! Took a couple extra weeks of waiting and a skilled truck driver to maneuver his way taken my cul-de-sac, but kit is in hand as of 3-26-2018.
http://i.imgur.com/5cRCq91.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/mdNbY1m.jpg

Got down to inventory right away and spend basically the whole day cataloging and storing everything. Then pulled the body off and got creative with the space I’m given:
http://i.imgur.com/xCeIPta.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/xE7RYvA.jpg

Stuff is so light the all bungee’d straight to the roof with ease!

First plan is to get the chassis rolling, so started with the suspension. Front is pretty straight-forward, save the modification to the spindle adapter bracket to make use of my STi hubs. I designed up some plates to weld onto the outside to relocate the mounting holes and am having them cut by the local waterjet shop. (Will post more pics and info once I get em fabbed up)
http://i.imgur.com/dP4A823.jpg

Bolted up the rear so I could test fit my wheels for clearance. But of a surprise as I have “miles” of space to the TSS Fab Trailing Arms, but am rubbing on the FFR forward link... I had not read much about clearance issues here. ***Anyone else have issues clearing the forward link??
http://i.imgur.com/agkMNia.jpg

Also got my steering rack pulled apart most of the way, but am stuck here:
http://i.imgur.com/Qn59xD9.jpg
***Any tips on pulling her apart the rest of the way to complete the full de-powering??

Thanks in advance

[Aero STI]

You can bias that forward link by moving the spacers to one side. I believe I did it on the chassis and suspension side. It was enough for me.

I think the end on the black side of the rack screws off.

Also, looking at your part list, if you haven't bought already I would grab ID1050X injectors. Should be plenty for your 1.5XTR. You can bump your base fuel pressure to 55-60 PSI and they'll flow tons.

[turbomacncheese]

Dang, somebody is wasting NO time!!

[bds818dwk]

You can bias that forward link by moving the spacers to one side. I believe I did it on the chassis and suspension side. It was enough for me.Yea, I tried that but was still too close for comfort... may have to space the wheel out 5mm or so... Gonna try adjusting the alignment a bit more to see if I just have something silly going on.

I think the end on the black side of the rack screws off. I thought so. Was hoping there were some tricks to do that, seems like I am gonna rash the hell out of it if I try a pipe wrench or something

Also, looking at your part list, if you haven't bought already I would grab ID1050X injectors. Should be plenty for your 1.5XTR. You can bump your base fuel pressure to 55-60 PSI and they'll flow tons.
I know the 1300’s are a bit large, but I wouldn’t want to put the added stress on the fuel pump. Plus I have spoken with a couple reputable tuners local to me, and both have said the new ID x injectors idle really well, even the 2000’s!! Definitely have been keeping an eye out for a good deal on the 1050’s tho!

[chedda]

Get a 5mm spacer for the wheel to fit. I had to go 20mm in the rear to get mine to fit properly and sit flush with the body. Congrats on getting so much done in such a small amount of time.

[phil1734]

You need to align the car before you worry about wheel rub, if you haven't done so already.

[RetroRacing]

In order of how we did it:
Get adjustable lower links, center the chassis
Excentric the upper links and the upper shock mount
Center the body
Set ride height
Align the car
Add hubcentric wheel spacers as required to bring the wheel out to the fender (with clearance)

[Aero STI]

I know the 1300’s are a bit large, but I wouldn’t want to put the added stress on the fuel pump. Plus I have spoken with a couple reputable tuners local to me, and both have said the new ID x injectors idle really well, even the 2000’s!! Definitely have been keeping an eye out for a good deal on the 1050’s tho!

If you already own the 1300, no issue at all, and they all do idle great. The ID1050xs are just more economical. I wouldn't bother with the DeatschWerks pump. I would grab a Walbro 485. It has worked great in all of my e85 applications. It can handle operating pressure up to 120 PSI, so even 55 static + 25 = 80 PSI dynamic and it won't break a sweat. http://walbrofuelpumps.com/450lph-walbro-e85-racing-fuel-pump-f90000267.html

[bds818dwk]

In order of how we did it:
Get adjustable lower links, center the chassis
Excentric the upper links and the upper shock mount
Center the body
Set ride height
Align the car
Add hubcentric wheel spacers as required to bring the wheel out to the fender (with clearance)

What exactly do you mean by “eccentric the upper Links and upper shock mount”? If I think I know what you’re talking about, the upper link would simply adjust static camber, and the shock mount wouldn’t really change any of the static parameters. ?

I have Adjustable lateral links, and was messing with those a bit to see how it would react, but was really just guessing at toe measurements.

Thank you!!

[bds818dwk]

I haven’t been posting, but busy making progress! Lol! Trying to, anyways...

I figured out my wheel clearance (at least without tires) by putting the rotors in place! 😓 I also grabbed some spacers for when I end up running some wider rubber.
91232

My next task was assembling my engine, which took forever, since I kept finding things I was missing or wanted to replace with new. IAG shortblock with Cosworth heads. TGV deletes, Tomei twin-scroll header.
I also rebuilt my trans, mostly just to make sure everything looked good inside, and replace the bearings and seals, and clean up the cases, etc. JDM RA 5-spd with factory helical LSD
9123391234912359123691237

Next was tackling the interior aluminum panels, front firewall, dead pedals. I always knew I would do something with the aluminum, just to make it look more finished. Contemplated anodize, powdercoat, engine-turning... settled on a compromise: abstract-ish sanding disc patterns, with carbon fiber vinyl (3M dinoc) on the interior surfaces. Actually came out really nice! And even the difficult dead-pedal assemblies were pretty easy to wrap. IMO, it looks great, especially with the rivets!
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[bds818dwk]

91242

Got a crane and mated engine/trans to frame!! For being only 4 bolts, it sure makes a world of difference just having it in the chassis! Definitely motivated me to keep pushing!
91243

Got excited and started bolting up the AWIC kit, mostly because I wanted it to look closer to running. ZeroDB kit is super nice!
9124491245

Front clip and cooling lines. I got the Boig hardlines per suggestions from many on here.
9124691247

Dropped in the fuel tank. Contemplated the Boyd tank, but then decided to go with the hydromat and fuel foam because I liked to fitment (and lack of additional cost) of the stock tank. Added a surge tank tho, so the cost was probably a wash. Lol!
9124891249

[bds818dwk]

Finally got the pedal box in, including the STi DBW throttle.
91250

The STi DBW throttle pedal actually bolted straight to the upright and fit great with the Wilwood box! I will probably have to rig up a stop, but that will be simple. Pedal placement is really good, and heel-toe should be decent, considering I could definitely use a few more inches of legroom
9125191252

With the pedal box in place, naturally I started running the hardlines. I decided to run all the hardlines down the center tunnel. I also ran the water lines for the AWIC down the tunnel using aluminum hardlines.
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[bds818dwk]

Next steps are to finish up the hardlines for the brakes and clutch, button up the fuel lines and “final” assemble the intake tract and AWIC, including finishing the hard water lines. I am next in line for my iWire harness, and that will be the last big step to a start-up! Still need to complete my upright adapter to fit with the STi hubs. A handful of parts need powdercoat, and then goal is goAkart!!

[lsfourwheeler]

Nice! I've just completed a lot of similar tasks in the last couple months on mine. Haven't gotten to cooling or brake lines yet though. The wrapped aluminum pieces look great!

[Mitch Wright]

Nice work.

[bds818dwk]

Because I wanted to run the STi hubs (for brembos, better wheel bearings, 5x114 bolt pattern for better wheel selection) the brackets that adapt the hub strut mounts to the upper ball joints need modified. Some people opt to modify the hubs themselves, but that seems much more complicated and risky than making a simple mod to the brackets.

I measured the spacing on the STi hubs, and from that, designed these simple plates to weld onto the FFR brackets. I also had some 3/4 moons cut to fill the gap left by the original hole relative to the new hole for the STi hubs:

9259392594

First, I drilled out the sopt welds that FFR uses to attach the inner plates to their brackets, and fully remove and smooth the interior surface. Then, Using the lower hole for alignment and the front face of the FFR bracket to align the plate flush, I tack-welded the plate in place, then used the plate hole as a guide to drill the 17mm hole. With the holes drilled properly and alignment confirmed, I zipped the plates in place to the original FFR brackets. I filled in the spot weld holes and surface welded the moon shapes in place to complete the “hole” in the bracket.

Here is the almost finished product (just needs some powder coat!)

925959259692597

I have one complete set of plates and 3/4 moons left ( I had two sets cut in case I screwed one up!), so if someone else wanted to duplicate what I did, I would give them up.

[Hobby Racer]

Nice job. That is the way I would do it if I ran STI hubs.

Is the inner dimension of the FFR bracket an exact match to the the outer dimension of the hub or does it require modification/grinding?

[bds818dwk]

Nice job. That is the way I would do it if I ran STI hubs.

Is the inner dimension of the FFR bracket an exact match to the the outer dimension of the hub or does it require modification/grinding?

The inner dimension (with the FFR plates removed) fits the STi hubs perfectly, mo modification to that width required. Only touch-up was required to clean up the spot welds and the moon filler.

You could probably get away without the additional plates that I added to the outside for strength, but I prefer the added strength. The STi bolts are long enough with the additional plates, but barely. Another 1/4” would be ideal.

[Sgt.Gator]

You're a long way off from this being a problem but bear in mind the Mishimoto Radiator Cap doesn't go on the Mishimoto Radiator, it goes on the burp tank. The Mishimoto Radiator uses the OEM no ears cap.

From their website (don't let their pictures fool ya!):

"Caution

The provided Mishimoto radiator cap should replace the stock cap located on the expansion tank. The stock cap attached to the radiator should be installed on the Mishimoto Performance Aluminum Radiator. The Mishimoto radiator cap is a two-way valve, while the stock radiator cap is a single valve. Due to the difference in construction, the Mishimoto cap cannot be used on the radiator. If the Mishimoto cap is fit on the radiator, overheating may occur."

[bds818dwk]

Here they are finished, powdercoated and mounted. Hard to tell with the suspension at full droop on the stands, but the furthest in-board portion of the axle stubs contact the spring coils at what seems like less than full lock (I don’t have my rack installed, still need to finish fully de-powering it). I will gain some clearance once it’s sitting at ride height, but I am probably going to turn down the majority of the “cup” of both front axle stubs.

93730937319373293733

[grabera7]

Any updates?