Racing Your Type 65

[nskaats]

How many members do we have in here that race their Coupe on a road course or autocross? Whether competitively or just occasionally throwing it around course. I'm curious to see how many are here. I love having a group that can share some knowledge and ideas and everyone can improve.

What brake setups work well? I'm considering using a Wilwood 14" front and 12.88" rear but I always like to hear experiences from others. Anyone used Stoptech, Brembo, or others with good or bad experiences on track?

What kind of alignment specs work for your preferred driving style? Coming from a Corvette world I tend to prefer some oversteer as opposed to a neutral handling car but this is a totally new platform to me.

What size front and rear tires make the car behave the way you want? Does a square setup work well on these cars? 315s all around or narrow up front?

How many guys have played with ballast and what kind of weight bias do you prefer?

[edwardb]

Check here. http://www.johngeorgeracing.com/wordpress/

[nskaats]

Looks like some good info to read through. Thank you. Hopefully we can generate some discussion about setup. It's always beneficial to bounce ideas around.

[jkrueger]

I have ran my coupe in two One Lap of America races, but I mostly do track days with it now. I run a square 275 tire set up. I have 13" front Brembos and 12.8" Wilwoods on the rear. My car has a bit of oversteer to it. I like it that way. I'd have to look up my alignment specs. I don't run any ballast, but when I built the car I tried to position weight forward and on the right. These cars have a rear weight bias and the left rear is particularly heavy.

JC

[nskaats]

That's good info the have Jkrueger. How do you feel about that brake setup on course? Do you feel it's adequate?

How do you like running 275s all around? Obviously tire costs are a bit more friendly. I'm actually a bit concerned with running too much tire in such a light car and not being able to get and keep heat in them.

[johngeorge]

Nick, Im currently using wilwood 6piston all around with 13" stoptech full floating rotors all around. To get the right feel and balance I played with the master cylinder sizes and settled on 7/8" front master, 1" rear master.

When I was messing with brakes and trying to fix my pad knock back issues, I had tried the 2 piston floating stock mustang calipers up front and in rear and there was a braking difference for sure between wilwoods and stock stuff, I found wilwoods I could break deeper and more consistent then stocks, much better pedal feel and bite.

[nskaats]

Nick, Im currently using wilwood 6piston all around with 13" stoptech full floating rotors all around. To get the right feel and balance I played with the master cylinder sizes and settled on 7/8" front master, 1" rear master.

When I was messing with brakes and trying to fix my pad knock back issues, I had tried the 2 piston floating stock mustang calipers up front and in rear and there was a braking difference for sure between wilwoods and stock stuff, I found wilwoods I could break deeper and more consistent then stocks, much better pedal feel and bite.

I'm planning on doing a full floater later on, but it won't be a part of the initial build. Do you feel the Wilwoods have any issues with heat on a road course? A lot of the local guys I run with like them for autocross but don't care for them on a road course.

How has your experience with the Stoptech products and service been?

[jkrueger]

That's good info the have Jkrueger. How do you feel about that brake setup on course? Do you feel it's adequate?

How do you like running 275s all around? Obviously tire costs are a bit more friendly. I'm actually a bit concerned with running too much tire in such a light car and not being able to get and keep heat in them.

My brakes are great. There is good balance, pedal feel and I've never had an over heating problem. I spent a lot of time with a race engineer friend figuring out the brake the system on my car before I even starting building it. After I finished building my Cobra using donor parts I was very disappointed in the braking system. My friend had a program that we could input car data and then play with rotor size, master cylinder size, caliper piston number and size. We got the system pretty close on the first try. I just had to play with bias and pad compound until I got it just the way I like it. I had a fair amount of rear pad knock back until I went with a full floating axle rear end. I have floating rotors on the front.

The 275 square setup is pretty good. I think a 275/295 front with a 315 rear would be better. Even with my modest power level (365 rwhp)I can get a lot of oversteer at times. I've tried to tune it out with sway bars and now aero and I am making progress. I'm going to a bigger wing on the back (something like what John George has on his) so that would help in the higher speed corners.

JC

[nskaats]

jkrueger, that program sounds like something I'd be interested in!! I have a handful of customers that get brake upgrades and with all the products on the market now it's hard for them to choose which is best. Which brakes specifically do you have? I'd like to look at them before I pull the trigger on anything.

I'm still leaning toward doing a 315 square setup on my car but the biggest driving factor in that is tire selection. For CAM the choice tire is the Rival S which only comes in a 315 or 275, and I don't think I'd want a 275 up front. I will have to ballast the car anyway to get it up to minimum weight, so it might be worth just adding weight to the front and running the 315s all around. Are you on a slick or spec street tire?

[jkrueger]

jkrueger, that program sounds like something I'd be interested in!! I have a handful of customers that get brake upgrades and with all the products on the market now it's hard for them to choose which is best. Which brakes specifically do you have? I'd like to look at them before I pull the trigger on anything.

I'm still leaning toward doing a 315 square setup on my car but the biggest driving factor in that is tire selection. For CAM the choice tire is the Rival S which only comes in a 315 or 275, and I don't think I'd want a 275 up front. I will have to ballast the car anyway to get it up to minimum weight, so it might be worth just adding weight to the front and running the 315s all around. Are you on a slick or spec street tire?

It is a neat program but I suspect it is proprietary to the company my friend worked for.

Here is my brake setup:
Front Brakes
Pedal assembly Wilwood #340-11299, both pedal ratios 6.25:1
Master Cylinder 5/8” Wilwood# 260-3372
Rotors Bembo racing 328mm x 32mm, #09922639/49
Calipers Bembo racing 4 piston 36/32 mm, #XB07703/04
Max pad thickness 20mm
Pads Pagid RS4-2 blue, PFC 7770, Pagid pad shape 1896 (20mm thick)
Pagid pad shape 8030 (17mm thick)
Pagid pad shape 1619 (25mm thick)
(#1619 needs to be milled down to fit)
Flexible Hoses 15” -3AN str by -3AN str, Russel #656030

Rear Brakes
Master Cylinder 5/8” Wilwood# 260-3372
Rotors Wilwood GT48 SPEC 37 12.88” x 1.10”, #160-12961/62
Rotor adapters Custom
Calipers Wilwood Superlite 4R, 4 piston 31mm, #120-11782-BK
Anti-knock back springs Performance Friction,6#, small bore(<36mm), 900.900.106.02
Pads Wilwood #7416 polymatrix B
Flexible Hoses same as front

7899979000790027900379004

You can also go to 25tires.com and get more info on my car build and events I have run it in.

JC

[johngeorge]

I'm planning on doing a full floater later on, but it won't be a part of the initial build. Do you feel the Wilwoods have any issues with heat on a road course? A lot of the local guys I run with like them for autocross but don't care for them on a road course.

How has your experience with the Stoptech products and service been?

Hi Nick, I didnt mean full floating rear end, I meant full floating rotor/cap for the brakes. No issues with heat on road course, I dont even run brake duct cooling. The Stoptech stuff is good although a little pricey.

[nskaats]

What are the preferred options for sway bars for these cars? Or none at all?

[johngeorge]

FFR has both front and rear swaybar options, which work well.

[nskaats]

Johngeorge what shocks are you running on your car? I ordered mine with none as it's cheaper for me to buy much of that on my own as well. I also wasn't positive I wanted to run the Koni's, but if I do Koni is right up the street from my shop with some of their guys very involved in racing. I'm considering RideTech, JRi, and even QA1 at the moment. I do need to get some shock dimensions once the kit arrives.

[johngeorge]

I’m running Koni double adjustable that FFR sells. http://www.factoryfiveparts.com/15350-roadster-coupe-koni-double-adjustable-shock-set/

[nskaats]

Have you been happy with them?

[johngeorge]

Have you been happy with them?

Yes happy with them. We did basic shock settings roughly finding the sweat spot but I believe more time needs to be dedicated to shock testing. A lot of performance can be gained by tuning shocks, but we were always fighting other issues (pad knockback, etc)... all has to be right before you start on shock testing.

[Honeybadger]

Hi all - wanted to revive this and see what everyone is using on their dedicated track/race Type 65s now? I don't plan to have any aero, but will be running dedicated slicks - curious to see what folks are recommending these days

[GT_Rich]

I can share plans but not much experience. I ordered a Coupe R at the end of 2021 and received the kit in September of 2022. I've been busting my butt to have it ready for this race season. Last month I did some high speed go karting and got a good feel for how all my custom off the grid solutions are working and so far I'm happy.

I am running 315 squared on 10.5" rims. This is a cost effective solution since 10.5s are easy to find in the aftermarket Mustang world.

I have custom valved double adjustable Bilstein shocks all around. I wanted a monotube shock with big rebound potential in the front so I worked with an engineer at Bilstein to make it happen. I have $3200 in four socks, but that's not much different than the upcharge for FFR double adjustable Konis ($1800) combined with the recovered cost of selling the red Konis that come with the kit ($800).

I have 900 lb/in front springs and 425 lb/in rear springs. I expect the rear to need less spring but I had these on the shelf from another project so it's a good starting point. My suspension sheet suggests 350 for the rear. This is for a 3 link solid axle car.

I did Brembo fixed 4 piston calipers all around that all use the same 13" Cobra rotors. Fronts are from a Cadillac STS and rear are from a 2015 V8 Camaro. Cheap on Rock Auto. I bought an adapter kit for the front and made my own bracket for the rear.

I will be running full aero on the car. For a rear wing I'll be using the 70" aluminum wing from Wing Logic. Again, cost effective compared to the FFR solution. Another forum member, Dave, still hopefully chime in here. He took my lead and bought the same wing. He ran it at the end of last season and had good results.

[Honeybadger]

I can share plans but not much experience. I ordered a Coupe R at the end of 2021 and received the kit in September of 2022. I've been busting my butt to have it ready for this race season. Last month I did some high speed go karting and got a good feel for how all my custom off the grid solutions are working and so far I'm happy.

I am running 315 squared on 10.5" rims. This is a cost effective solution since 10.5s are easy to find in the aftermarket Mustang world.

I have custom valved double adjustable Bilstein shocks all around. I wanted a monotube shock with big rebound potential in the front so I worked with an engineer at Bilstein to make it happen. I have $3200 in four socks, but that's not much different than the upcharge for FFR double adjustable Konis ($1800) combined with the recovered cost of selling the red Konis that come with the kit ($800).

I have 900 lb/in front springs and 425 lb/in rear springs. I expect the rear to need less spring but I had these on the shelf from another project so it's a good starting point. My suspension sheet suggests 350 for the rear. This is for a 3 link solid axle car.

I did Brembo fixed 4 piston calipers all around that all use the same 13" Cobra rotors. Fronts are from a Cadillac STS and rear are from a 2015 V8 Camaro. Cheap on Rock Auto. I bought an adapter kit for the front and made my own bracket for the rear.

I will be running full aero on the car. For a rear wing I'll be using the 70" aluminum wing from Wing Logic. Again, cost effective compared to the FFR solution. Another forum member, Dave, still hopefully chime in here. He took my lead and bought the same wing. He ran it at the end of last season and had good results.

Thanks for the info. Interested in the wing solution! How're you mounting it? Custom mounts?

[Dave Tabor]

Here's two previous forum posts re: the wing on my Type 65:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?44611-Gen-III-Coupe-17-at-Thunderhill-Raceway-with-new-wing

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?44685-New-Wing-Testing

I can answer specific questions but a few details about my car:

FRPP 302 crate motor
TKO600 (0.82 5th gear)
Nitto NT01 or Toyo R888R (275 front, 315 rear, 18" wheels)
Front anti-roll bar using stiffest hole (used a spacer), no rear bar
QA1 single adjustable shocks, 700lb front, 500lb rear springs

While I don't formally 'race' the car, I drag, autocross and HPDE it (also Nevada Open Road Challenge).

Dave
Gen 3 #17
16,000+ miles
Instagram: @davesdaytona

[Honeybadger]

Here's two previous forum posts re: the wing on my Type 65:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?44611-Gen-III-Coupe-17-at-Thunderhill-Raceway-with-new-wing

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?44685-New-Wing-Testing

I can answer specific questions but a few details about my car:

FRPP 302 crate motor
TKO600 (0.82 5th gear)
Nitto NT01 or Toyo R888R (275 front, 315 rear, 18" wheels)
Front anti-roll bar using stiffest hole (used a spacer), no rear bar
QA1 single adjustable shocks, 700lb front, 500lb rear springs

While I don't formally 'race' the car, I drag, autocross and HPDE it (also Nevada Open Road Challenge).

Dave
Gen 3 #17
16,000+ miles
Instagram: @davesdaytona

Love it! Curious about the 302 - what RPM are you running it to? How's it been holding up? I have a spare HO 302 that I plan to put in mine

[Dave Tabor]

Love it! Curious about the 302 - what RPM are you running it to? How's it been holding up? I have a spare HO 302 that I plan to put in mine

Rev-limiter is routinely set to 6250 but do 6500 at the drags and road course.

Motor is a Ford Racing x302b (fully forged internals) with a mild B cam.

Had a head gasket blow a few thousand miles and several track days and maybe 100 drag runs ago. Cooked it to the point of no-crank. Changed both head gaskets and head bolts and tried to forget about it.

Dave
Gen III #17

[GT_Rich]

I will be mounting the same wing using FFR brackets. Basically plug and play, but you have to like the look.

[Honeybadger]

I will be mounting the same wing using FFR brackets. Basically plug and play, but you have to like the look.

Makes sense. I didn't realize you could buy the brackets separately without the wing. Mind sharing how much?

[Honeybadger]

Rev-limiter is routinely set to 6250 but do 6500 at the drags and road course.

Motor is a Ford Racing x302b (fully forged internals) with a mild B cam.

Had a head gasket blow a few thousand miles and several track days and maybe 100 drag runs ago. Cooked it to the point of no-crank. Changed both head gaskets and head bolts and tried to forget about it.

Dave
Gen III #17

Great to hear. Thanks!

[GT_Rich]

Makes sense. I didn't realize you could buy the brackets separately without the wing. Mind sharing how much?

PN 60627 is listed as $105 on FFR website on the configure your kit options. Road race spoiler mounting kit. It's a fairly crude kit. It's just CNC cut aluminum and a bag of bolts.

[Jphoenix]

I thought I would resurrect this thread because it was helpful for me to reference it while preparing my Coupe-R for racing, so here's the update after the first race weekend - spoiler alert: it ran great! Handled so much better than I expected, but only got one race in before the power steering pump blew. Sadly, no video of the race due to operator error, but there is video of one of the test and tune sessions.

Lots of thanks to the folks on the forum and especially Rsnake (congrats on the Open Road win!!) and Dave Tabor, RichGT, Shakey and all the other who post their info here.

About me, I've been racing open wheel Formula Vee, Formula Mazda and Formula Ford for the past 12 years here in the Pacific Northwest. Decided I wanted a Daytona Coupe, but could not stand daily driving it on the highways up here in Seattle area traffic at 32 mph, so decided on a Coupe-R set up for racing in our Conference (https://www.icscc.com) and also in SOVREN (https://sovrenracing.org).

The build is detailed on my post here (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?49412-Coupe-R-build-in-Seattle&p=581145#post581145).

So, off to the races. Friday was test and tune and raining, how fun - but I took my race driver training in the rain, so no big deal, here we go. I disconnected the rear sway bar and softened up the shocks C & R (same thing I do on the formula cars when it's wet) and hopped in. With full fuel I went across the scales and it weighs 2740 without driver and with 15 gallons of no-alcohol 93 pump gas. I'm pleased with that because it has 2.5 gallons of oil in a complex dry sump system that adds a lot of weight and a big heavy battery, safety equipment, etc.

Got in line for the test and tune session and let everyone go by first as I had to bed in the brakes and adjust the bias - and I needed heat in the brakes. They are large Wildwood Aero-6's with BP40 pads so still a mystery on how they will feel and work. I'm using a .875" front master and a 1.00" rear because I like a firm pedal that I can modulate - more on that after the race. Got out there and discovered the shift lights on my AIM Solo are not configured correctly, so had to glance at the tach. First two test sessions revealed no problems mechanically and surprisingly nice handling, even on the Continental Contact street tires I'm using for rain testing, it was very controllable with zero tendency for oversteer - pleasantly surprised at that, so the limit is out there somewhere. First session was red-flagged when a BMW hit the wall in turn 5, so back in to see if anything fell off. No problems noted, no leaks (!) and nothing to adjust. Second test session, track still damp, same setup, tried re-configuring the shift lights on the Solo, but just made it worse. Again red-flagged because the same BMW hit the wall in turn 9, but this time he crunched the front end. So only 3 laps this session, but he won't be going back out again.

After lunch, the track dried out, so I reconnected the rear swaybar in the softest setting the link will reach and switch to Toyo Proxes R slicks, very soft and ran the compression on the shocks up to 5, left rebound at 3 clicks. Still no leaks, engine running great, temps are as expected. I picked up some speed and started creeping up on the brake bias (needs a lot more rear than I thought) and creeping up on speed through the turns and also on getting on the throttle coming out of the corners waiting for the snap oversteer to present itself - which it never did. By the fourth test session, I had the bias about where I like it, brake temps starting to even out between the front and rear and the tires are sticking like glue. In the video below, I'm in the fourth session, following a couple of novice drivers in their SE46 BMW's, I really did not want to pass them and make them nervous, so I hung back on the straights and let all the testers go by when they came up on me. I don't need to test maximum speed on the straight, I need to feel for the brakes and speed in the corners, so I'm going pretty slow around the track. You can see at one point in the video I adjust the yellow bias knob for more rear brake - also you can see me trying to figure where the gears are and what the hell gear am I in now?

Biggest issue for me was that I've been racing with dog boxes for the past 12 years and using the clutch to shift is very weird! In fact I jammed it a couple times because I forgot the use the clutch, but the Tremec didn't complain. After four sessions on Friday I was amazed at how nicely the car handles, even as soft as I had it set up, not much body roll and visibility is better than I expected, I sit much higher than in the formula cars so I can see the apexes earlier. Overall, it's a very comfortable car to drive and I expect that once I get the handling set up it will be very easy to drive fast. I found no tendency to oversteer and it turns in on the hairpin corners very well with no understeer. I do have the front set to tiny bit of toe-out, but I don't think it needs it as it never pushed during the race.

Here's the video of the last test and tune session, which was once again red-flagged - right after I got around the novices and was ready to let 'er rip. https://youtu.be/usmVUihsGAE

For comparison, here's a video of my Formula Mazda at normal racing speed around Pacific Raceways: https://youtu.be/igK77RCPwus

Sadly no video of the race on Saturday, somebody forgot to put the SD card in the Smartycam :( . Race was 30 minutes, 17 laps, full fuel, scrubbed in tires and bedded brakes. We did a split start with the BMW's going first and the big bore cars second. The power steering pump started making noise on pre-grid at the 1 minute warning, but I went anyway as it was still working OK. I did not know then it was blowing (or had blown) all the power steering fluid out the back of the brand new pump. Didn't notice it during the race, I'm sure the power steering was working because the turn effort is very heavy with the slicks and 18 psi in the tires. Anyhow, off we go and boy does this thing accelerate! Great start and kept up with the pack, but slower than my class because I'm still learning how to drive a 3000 pound car. I did figure out where all the gears are and got some good heat in the brakes and they started working really well. Even passed a couple of BMW's :p.

Took the checker, coolant and oil temps were perfect, power steering pump audibly grinding now, radiator fan came on during the cool down lap and then went off, so that's working. AIM Solo 2 shift lights still a mystery and I scraped the bottom of the frame in a couple places in the bumps, so need some stiffening up. Amazingly I took second place in my class (ITE) out of 7 because 3 DNS and 2 DNF, so like they say, 90% of life is just showing up (and finishing!).

Some things to do or change:

New PS pump, the leaking pump is a Unisteer I bought from Breeze so I'll have to figure out what happened to it, leaking out of the rear pump cover. The fluid was getting hot, so I'm installing a power steering fluid cooler, but I'm shifting at 6000, so likely not overdriving the pump, just unlucky I guess.

Drained the oil, looks great, I'm running Mobil 1 10w40 per the Ford Performance tech sheet. It says I can run 10w30 or 10w40 - does not specify synthetic or oil with ZDDP, so Mobil 1 is what I like. I removed the oil filter, it's a Setrab with cleanable filter media and it looks really good with just a tiny bit of overhaul swarf, so pleased with that.

I used 7 gallons of fuel in the 30 minute race, less than I thought, but will probably be more when I pick up the remaining ten seconds per lap that I left on the table. At partial throttle in 5th gear I was at 140 mph at the end of the straight going into turn 2, there's another 15 or 20 mph in there - at least.

I like the brakes, they are nice and firm, but I'm going to go with a .75 front and .875 rear master next so I can get a little more power into the brakes and I think that will be perfect.

The 335-18 Continentals rub the typical location on the rear frame with the suspension so soft. The Toyo's are 315 in the rear and do not rub. Fronts are Toyo Proxes R 285 something R18's, no rubbing. Wheels are Enkei 9.5" front, 11" rear, no spacers, forget the backspace, but I'll look it up if anyone is interested.

The front air dam is a pain in the butt, I have to remove it to get the car in the trailer and I have to jack up the front to open the hood, so kinda fiddly but the biggest problem is that I forget to lower the hood before lowering the jack - duh.

I'm 5'11" 230 and with seat reclined about 15 degrees, my helmeted head fits inside the cage with no hitting anything and the pedals have over 4" more room behind them so it's a pretty good fit. The seat is the standard Kirkey racing seat from FFR, but it's just a bit too large (I'm used to being shoehorned into a formula car) and the car pulled enough g's during the race to allow me to move a bit more than I like. So, I might pour a bead seat or get another seat with more head surround, etc.

Need a new outside mirror on the door, I suspected that, but it was useless during the race to see who was right next to me. The wide angle view inside mirror was great until it vibrated down and I had to adjust it up every laps.

I have a list of things to not forget pasted on the door of the car: Earplugs, Fire bottle Pin, Hoof latches - need to add "SD Card" to that :rolleyes:

Need better earplugs, I thought the Formula Mazda was loud, this car is louder, even with the FFR Cobra side exhaust that have some kinda muffler to them, it's loud inside the cab. Good news I didn't exceed the 103db sound limit.

So, that's it until the next race in June.

214052214053

[PNWTim]

This is a great write up Jim, thanks for sharing. Is the June race at PIR? If so, I would like to make it out there to introduce myself and check out your car.

[Jphoenix]

This is a great write up Jim, thanks for sharing. Is the June race at PIR? If so, I would like to make it out there to introduce myself and check out your car.

Not sure yet, between SOVREN and Conference, too many choices and I need to get the 289 to Montana for paint, so probably a last minute thing. I do want to get back on track and get some seat time in. This thing is a lotta fun.

[JimStone]

I thought I would resurrect this thread because it was helpful for me to reference it while preparing my Coupe-R for racing, so here's the update after the first race weekend - spoiler alert: it ran great! Handled so much better than I expected, but only got one race in before the power steering pump blew. Sadly, no video of the race due to operator error, but there is video of one of the test and tune sessions.

...


214052214053




Awesome post Jphoenix!

Your car looks amazing and the racing video looks like so much fun



Meanwhile, I haven't even gotten wheels on my car in the year it took you to build and now race it!

[Jphoenix]

Awesome post Jphoenix!

Your car looks amazing and the racing video looks like so much fun



Meanwhile, I haven't even gotten wheels on my car in the year it took you to build and now race it!

Thanks Jim, take your time, the build is at least half the fun!!

[Jphoenix]

Friend caught a video of the Coupe going by during the Group 4 race on Saturday afternoon: https://youtu.be/NX-2HEj23Gk

[Jphoenix]

Update on the PS pump failure, I disassembled it because I wanted to see why it failed and because there's no warranty for engines or parts used in competition racing. There is a nick in the low pressure side o-ring that allowed the fluid to leak out over the last couple of test sessions, I checked the fluid after the first 2 sessions, it looked a little low, but I know fluid expands when hot, so I left it at that level. Anyhow, I have a new PS fluid cooler ready to go in, might not need it, but it's inexpensive insurance. The PS pump I robbed from the 289 has a slightly larger pulley which will help under-drive it a bit.

You can see where the Coupe was marking its territory with PS fluid in the last photo:

214081214082214083


Drained the engine oil and refilled with 10w30 Mobil 1. The old oil (with an hour of running on it) looked good, but definitely has a bit of fuel mixed in - which is typical when running the engines at high throttle settings.

The Setrab combination oil filter/oil cooler regulator works a treat! Oil temp went right up to 210 and stayed there during the entire race.

The stock FFR radiator fan makes a lot of noise and spins fast, but doesn't do very much, so I bought the Flex-a-lite Flex-Wave LoBoy Electric Fan, Puller Fan, 16 Inches (238/105390) recommended by multiple folks on this forum and will install that on the Breeze shroud - which by the way is very nice.

Next step is to find some decent side mirrors, figure out that dam RPM input to the Solo DL and get the 289 painted. This retirement business is a lot of work!!

[Skuzzy]

Can you adjust the oil regulator temperature? If you can, I would recommend bumping the temperature to 230F. Get the oil hot enough to remove any moisture which might accumulate.

[Jphoenix]

Yes, it's adjustable. That's a good suggestion, thanks.

[Rsnake]

Great video Jim! The car looks like a ton of fun on the track. It was a pleasure chatting today and I look forward to more.

[turbodon]

You can try a stick on Convex mirror for your existing mirrors before jumping into a different style.

[Jphoenix]

After my first race weekend, I'm pretty happy with the handling of the car, but its suspension is set pretty soft because the track was wet most of the weekend. In the process of stiffening things up a bit, I moved the rear sway bar to the second stiffest hole and cranked up the compression in the front and rear and more rebound up front. I decided not to go to stiffer springs because I want the suspension to move - as Colin Chapman famously said "Any suspension will work if you don't let it." That means, don't set it up so stiff you're hopping around the track like a kart.

The front of the car seems fine, turns in just fine, so I didn't make any adjustments to the front sway bar, just the front shock setting. My goal is to have the car soft - but not so soft it bottoms out in bumps. Ride height is 3.25 front and 3.75" rear. Springs are as delivered with 750 front and 500 rear.

However I did notice some very slight rubbing on the usual suspect frame braces, not from the 315 slicks, but the 335 wets - as has been documented here before, so I decided to notch the offending frame member as some others have done because I do not want to run spacers. I also ordered some new wheels with 25.4mm offset rear, slightly more offset in the front - and they move the tire out a bit more than the Enkei's - which are fine with the 315's, but notching the frame gives me the peace of mind that I won't be bottoming the tires on the frame, which would be very upsetting. So now I could probably go with 335 slicks in the rear, but frankly, not sure I need to just yet. Maybe after I get more seat time and get closer to the Fast Boyz' lap times.

It was easy to see where to cut since the tires did a nice job of marking their spot. Then welded in a piece of steel and painted it with undercoating.

214605214606214607

[Rsnake]

Jim,

Notching the frame looks familiar:) I am still not sure if 335's are worth it but damn they look good.
Please keep the updates coming as not many of us are pushing the type 65's so its great to share information.

[JimStone]

Yep, really good stuff Jim.

I'll never truly race mine, but it sure is interesting hearing about it

[Jphoenix]

I bought a set of Longacre scales to do corner weights. These are nice because they bluetooth to my phone and I can sit in the car and see what the wheel weights and cross weight are at, then save it.

After adjusting ride height and getting the car level, a few iterations of adjusting the coilovers gives me a 50% cross weight. With 56% rear and 43% front weight distribution, I can get power down no problem. It's heavy on the left side (mostly because of the fat butt in the seat :p) but with 51% left and 48% right, not too bad.

With me in the car, full fuel, Coolsuit cooler filled, the car weighs 3017 going on track. Subtract 7 gallons of fuel at 6.7 lbs. per gallon, I should be at 2970 on the scales after a 30 minute race. No minimum weight in the ITE class, but gives you an idea of what these Coupe-R's weigh in race trim. Without me, cooler water and fuel, it weighs 2655. I weigh 240 with suit, Hans, helmet, cool suit shirt, etc. I could buy a carbon fiber body, but it's cheaper to lose 70 pounds of sprung weight :rolleyes:

Also replaced the 500# springs in the rear with some Eibach 650# springs to get the spring rate closer to what the car needs. I'll reconnect the roll bars the same hole, except I moved the rear to one hole stiffer. I'll play with that bit during the test and tune sessions prior to the races next weekend.

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[Jphoenix]

OK, another race weekend and another power steering failure. Did 4 test and tune sessions on Friday and the pump started whining towards the end of the first session and blew most of the oil out the reservoir vent. You can hear it in the video, I couldn't hear it because I have some really good earplugs and the helmet. Rack got harder to turn to the right, but OK to the left. So, done with this rack and pump. Going with a PSC Quick Ratio Replacement Rack and Pinion - RA-33500 as suggested by Rsnake's post on the issue. Also buying a new pump, Heidt control valve (done with messing with shims and orifices) and an even larger PS pump pulley. Between all those parts, I should be able to drive the car with a properly functioning power steering system. Towards the end of the test and tune day power steering was gone, regardless of fluid level so the rack is likely toast, so it's all going to the landfill. I believe that the big sticky tires and 7.5 degrees of caster put a lot of stress on the rack and pump, so for a Coupe-R that's going to be raced hard, need a proper rack and pump. I wish Factory Five would sell the Coupe-R as a basic kit because most of the parts in the complete kit I've not used - things like the wiring harness, fuel tank, mirrors, interior parts, shifter and a bunch of other stuff went into the bin - soon to be joined by the power steering rack and likely the radiator as it looks kinda iffy for long term race use - maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised by the radiator, we'll see. I'm going to buy a new one now and keep the FFR unit as a spare - since it all has to come out to get to the rack.

So no racing for me - but I did manage to sell my Formula Ford at the track, so more money for parts and tires :D

Even with the steering issues, I did manage to get some laps in, not fast because I didn't trust the steering, you can see me fighting the wheel towards the end - scary because it was hard to the right, power to the left, not good! I did get enough speed to test the new brake masters at the end of the straight; new shock and sway bar settings and the 650 lb. springs in the rear and it is really handling nice now. At Pacific there are some really important turns where a lot of time can be found, turn 9 that leads onto the straight and has a big bump and turn 5A that has another bump and last time the car was wallowing pretty good through 5A (very soft settings) and bottoming in turn 9. That's all sorted now and the car has much less body roll with the sway bars in the second hole from full stiff. I increased compression 5 clicks and rebound 7 clicks in the front QA1 DD401 shocks, same in the rear and with the 650# rear springs it handles so nice I was itching to get some speed on and toss it in the corners, but by the time I got the tires warm and a clear track, the PS pump was dying. At 130mph, I was at maybe half throttle in fifth - plenty more speed to be had once I get my confidence up in the car - it's so different from the formula car, having to use the clutch is weird and clutch plus shifting that giant shifter isn't fully ingrained into my muscle memory yet.

Video: https://youtu.be/8P6nD61WySM

So, I'm calling it a win with regard to everything except the power steering. The engine and trans operating perfectly (I'm still learning where the gearshift is as you can see in the video, I'm so used to a dog box and short close shifter that it feels like I'm driving a twin stick Kenworth :rolleyes:. So, just need more seat time to get used to how it handles before I start looking for the raggedy edge, but it sure is fun to drive!

Shift lights on the AIM Solo working perfectly, brakes are perfect with the smaller masters I installed (.875 front and .75 rear). I did not need the windshield wipers even with the little sprinkles we got in the first session - but I can see those need to be replaced, you can see the passenger side wiper fluttering. Oil pressures and temps are perfect and stay right where I set them. Coolant temp is good, so no complaints at all about how the car is running and handling. I knew this would be a development and driver learning year, but hope to get a lot more time on track soon. Plenty of racing left in the year.

John W. stopped by in his Coupe to say Hi and he has a beautiful car!

[PNWTim]

Jim - I love these updates, keep them coming. Although I doubt I will ever seriously race my coupe it's nice to hear about the successes (and failures) as you work through you shakedown. Thanks again.

[Dave Tabor]

What PS pump 'were' you running?

Let's just say that I've cooked a few pumps.

Dave
Gen III #17

[Jphoenix]

What PS pump 'were' you running?

Let's just say that I've cooked a few pumps.

Dave
Gen III #17

2 different pump brands (most recent is a Unisteer 8060300: https://www.unisteer.com/products/gen-ii-tc-low-flow-pump-w-clip-on-reservoir ) but same GM Type 2 pump. Pretty sure the combination of ford rack GM pump, pressure and flow differences plus big sticky tires, caster, 6” crank pulley vs 6” PS pulley caused the failure. Ford racing guy I respect said I probably cooked the rack last race, and it’s not a robust specimen (he was being nice about the quality). Trying to vary the pump pressure with orifice and washer stack up was a fools errand, should have installed the heidts valve during the build.

Going with a Jones Racing pump with a 6.5” pulley now, with the heidts valve and new rack, should be ok. Gonna do a track day at the ridge before the next race weekend.

[Presdough]

I had a NASA track day paid for at Sonoma so, of course, my ECU laid down two days prior. I stickered up my 2003 Mini Cooper and had an absolute BLAST!

[Rsnake]

Jim,

Great Video! I love my PSC rack. Never a noise and I think it steers more precise. I assume you went with the 5/8 brake master cylinders?

Greg

[Jphoenix]

Jim,

Great Video! I love my PSC rack. Never a noise and I think it steers more precise. I assume you went with the 5/8 brake master cylinders?

Greg

New Tilton masters are .875 front and .75 rear. The front Aero 6 brakes are 4.04 piston area, rears are 2.46, both with Thermlock pistons, but I'm not seeing much heat in the brakes yet, still just meandering around the track mostly at this point feeling out the car and letting the BMW's fly by. It is kinda fun to let them pass (it's a test and tune, no racing allowed) and then push the go pedal and crawl right up on the butt. But I don't pass them because they'll just go around me at the next corner while I'm getting brakes warmed or feeling the corner, and towards the end fighting the steering wheel - no boost is worse than a manual rack it seems. Haven't had enough track time to go fast yet, damn steering really limiting right now. I'll have the whole day at The Ridge to get it sorted on the 13th (HPDFE event) before the next race weekend - which is at The Ridge. Should finally get some fun racing in!

Gotta love Summit, ordered a complete system yesterday and it will all be here tomorrow, except the new lines which just dropped on my porch :). Thanks for the info you posted on the PSC rack, I'm looking forward to having a solid system!

[Dave Tabor]

2 different pump brands (most recent is a Unisteer 8060300: https://www.unisteer.com/products/gen-ii-tc-low-flow-pump-w-clip-on-reservoir ) but same GM Type 2 pump. Pretty sure the combination of ford rack GM pump, pressure and flow differences plus big sticky tires, caster, 6” crank pulley vs 6” PS pulley caused the failure. Ford racing guy I respect said I probably cooked the rack last race, and it’s not a robust specimen (he was being nice about the quality). Trying to vary the pump pressure with orifice and washer stack up was a fools errand, should have installed the heidts valve during the build.

Going with a Jones Racing pump with a 6.5” pulley now, with the heidts valve and new rack, should be ok. Gonna do a track day at the ridge before the next race weekend.

Ok, for what's it's worth I completely cooked a few Ford OEM pumps (the kind with the integrated reservoir), moved to a KRC pump (4" pulley, remote reservoir) - cooked that, then ended up with a KRC pump with a 6" pulley and an underdrive crank pulley (I don't recall what diameter this is now) - I did not change the pulley on the water pump - no cooling issues.

I run a 18" out and back 'tube' type fluid cooler and add a second cooler in-line when drifting on the skidpad. No issues.

Dave
Gen III #17
FRPP 302

[Jphoenix]

Good info Dave, my new system should work based on your and Greg’s info.

[Jphoenix]

Got the car in the garage, removed the hood and cleaned all the oil off the bottom - now for the fun part. As you all know, the first part we install on these cars is the steering rack :(. Mine is especially buried behind and beneath the dry sump tank, so that will give me something to do for the rest of the day.

Hopefully I don't have to remove the radiator or drain the coolant, but we'll see.

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There's a steering rack down there somewhere :eek:

[Jphoenix]

Old rack is out, not too bad - but there's a lot of engine oil in that tank and all those lines. All of the residual oil in the photos is actually power steering fluid - the right side seal was gone, oil just filling the boot and leaking out as noted on other folks threads.

I don't know how many times I read EdwardB's build thread, it's incredibly helpful - but apparently I wasn't paying attention in class because I did not heed his warning regarding the steering rack bolts: "Installed like shown in the instructions would have made them difficult if not impossible to remove once the radiator is installed. " Yes, I had them with the head facing the radiator duct and they were just an eighth too long to fall out, so some prying, spreading and cajoling and finally got them out without having to cut anything.

[Rsnake]

Removing the rack is not a fun job but can be done. You are going to love that PSC unit. The original unit in my car blew out the seals at both ends and filled the boots. This was after a few autocross runs in a row. No issues with the PSC.

[Jphoenix]

Removing the rack is not a fun job but can be done. You are going to love that PSC unit. The original unit in my car blew out the seals at both ends and filled the boots. This was after a few autocross runs in a row. No issues with the PSC.

Got the rack this afternoon, you’re right, it’s a very nice unit. I’m measuring the tie-rod ball socket distance to be 25”, LCA bolt centers are 25.5” so might not need the rack extenders. I’ll see how it looks after I get it in.

[Dmac800]

Did you get your car all back together? Will you be at the Ridge on Sunday? I was thinking about stopping by to talk and see your car.

[Jphoenix]

Did you get your car all back together? Will you be at the Ridge on Sunday? I was thinking about stopping by to talk and see your car.

Yes, all back together and will be at The Ridge on Monday with Turn2.

https://www.motorsportreg.com/index.cfm/event/event.status/uidEvent/1DE0FFBC-D6BC-A731-C2BA3E270DD1F185

[Jphoenix]

Couple of Coupes testing at The Ridge today.217264217265

Finally got the power steering dialed in and leak-free, proper racing alternator, so all running very well. 3.25 degrees of camber all around giving good even tire temps, so I’m ready for the next race weekend at the Ridge in a couple of weeks.

[Jphoenix]

Video from yesterday, Corvette in front of me was slow in the corners, but fast on the straights - until his engine failed, you can hear it when he lets me go by.

https://youtu.be/r8F5xSKK_-M?si=1FOF1t4YB5uCy0M8

[Jphoenix]

Video from test day at The Ridge August 30. Got everything dialed in, 3.5 degrees camber front and rear and there's plenty of seconds left in this car.

https://youtu.be/BWb9eKb9kHw

Now that the racing season is over and the 289 is in Montana getting painted, I decided to finalize the center instrument cluster layout and had Front Panel Express make a new center panel. Moved the fuel gauge up and engraved all the nomenclature. I designed it using their software and they had it to me in 4 days.

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https://www.frontpanelexpress.com/front-panel-designer

I dislike that FFR supplied wiper switch immensely - it's so big I had to move the hole up to accommodate it. The only good thing about it is that it actually works - for now.

[nskaats]

Video from test day at The Ridge August 30. Got everything dialed in, 3.5 degrees camber front and rear and there's plenty of seconds left in this car.

https://youtu.be/BWb9eKb9kHw

Now that the racing season is over and the 289 is in Montana getting painted, I decided to finalize the center instrument cluster layout and had Front Panel Express make a new center panel. Moved the fuel gauge up and engraved all the nomenclature. I designed it using their software and they had it to me in 4 days.

220360220361

https://www.frontpanelexpress.com/front-panel-designer

I dislike that FFR supplied wiper switch immensely - it's so big I had to move the hole up to accommodate it. The only good thing about it is that it actually works - for now.

Love seeing videos of the car out on track!

The panel turned out awesome too

[Jphoenix]

Re-wiring completed and new panel installed. Lots of wires cleaned up and many connectors installed so I can easily remove the center panel and replace any gauge, switch or wire that causes trouble. But the good new is the wiring and electrical system has been flawless during the first season, just needed to sort out a couple of circuits and get cleaner installation.

https://youtu.be/8tYZJHRWwOg

Note at the end of the video the written reminder of things to do before getting in the seat. Gotta add FUEL to that list. I didn't get one earplug properly seated once last summer, and my ear was ringing for hours.

Next up is new brake master in the rear. I've been running a 7/8 front and 3/4 rear and they work fine with the big Aero 6 brakes with BP40 pads. The brakes hardly get any heat in them and they stop the car rapidly, but I decided I want a bit for feel for those rainy and cold days when I need better feel for what's happening. So, I decided to go with 3/4 front and 5/8 rear after working through the mathematics on the various websites that cater to master cylinder sizing for desired brake bias and balance. I recall Snake ended up with 5/8 front and rear - but I don't know what his piston areas are front and rear, but he likes it and that's what it's all about.

I started here at Wilwoods site to get the front and rear caliper piston areas: https://www.wilwood.com/BrakeKits/BrakeKitsProdRear?itemno=140-13888 and for the front: https://www.wilwood.com/BrakeKits/BrakeKitsProdFront?itemno=140-16859

Then here for the pedal moment arm: https://www.wilwood.com/Pedals/PedalList?sc=Reverse%20Swing%20Mount%20Pedals

Plugged the numbers into the Dual Bias Calculator: https://www.tceperformanceproducts.com/dual-bias-calc/

And got the desired 65/35 front to rear bias - same as before with the 7/8 and 3/4 masters - but now with a bit more pedal travel and feel. Probably more brake power - but again, it seems like I'm hardly using all the brake I have, even when slowing from 110 down to 45 in the span of just a few feet going into 3A at Pacific (really standing on them - but smoothly, right?). It just slows down without any fanfare or squealing. Brake temp indicators show a max of 150 on the fronts, not sure the rears get anywhere near that, but they're working as I did get the right rear to lock up in a puddle of water. My GT buddies say I need to adjust the bias (using the cockpit knob) until I can feel the rear settle a bit when first applied, still looking for that, but don't have a lot of time on track just yet. The BP40 pads are very aggressive, but need heat to work, so I ride the brakes on the out lap and they work just fine - hardly any wear, which is good because well over $500 for a complete set of pads front and rear. No brake cooling as I was told wait until I get some temps on a hot day (in Portland of course!) and then decide if I need any cooling. I doubt it with what I'm seeing so far.

Also got new Allstar Performance air jacks from Summit, I'll be fabricating mounts and installing those so I can open the engine hood all the way without having to jack the car up with the low-profile jack. It's so low now that I can't even get it on the quickjacks with first jacking it and putting 2x6's under it.