NYS Inspection/Registration concerns

[stevant]

Hi all,

I'm about to order a Roadster kit.

I was hoping I could get a little insight on the inspection/registration process for the Roadster in NYS. Is there anything I need to prepare during the build so when complete I won't have any issues?

I appreciate any information.

Sincerely........ :)

[bil1024]

I just went thru this a few months ago, get the packet from the NYS DMV website, that a start. Keep in mind you will need visors/heater and defrost, wipers, bumpers and backup light. Depending on engine used, emissions come into play. Any questions post away and congrats!

[stevant]

Hey Bill.............Ok, wipers were on the list, bumpers, visors.....but no heater or defrost. Looks like that's an option I will have to opt for. Reading the builds it seems to make a tight space even tighter. Would you happen to have any pics of your installation if I'm not asking too much? I was going to use the Coyote setup in the car, so I'm not sure which way to go now with the emission. I'm going to have Mike Forte supply the engine for me. Do you think he would know how to set the Coyote up so it complies with emission? That seems to be a much bigger issue. Maybe it would be better to go with an older engine setup? Hmmmmm.....

Thanks for your response, very much appreciated.

[Feen]

If you run the coyote, you will need cats. Where in NY are you located?

[stevant]

Long Island.......the Cats will take away from the look I assume. Would need to fit them in. Would another engine choice avoid this issue? Could I go with a shorty header and fit them up front before the pipes I assume? Oxygen sensors and stuff also?

[bil1024]

Yep like Feen says will need cats, FFR can help you with that, my heater is similar to the manual as I used the 302. DO a search on here and there should be some good info on the heater, also you can call FFR with any concerns. A Coyote is going to look awesome!

[stevant]

Thanks Bill........I'll call FFR on Monday and talk to them about it. Thanks for the info. I found another thread that talks about this same issue. Joel was referring to "Homemade" and that a lot of things are excluded due to that term. It's how you fill out the paperwork they were saying........what do I know. I'm as confused as ever. I'd rather have a Coyote but don't want to deal with emissions. Maybe just throw in a 427........it's only money!!! haha

[mike forte]

Hi stevant,
I sell a stainless steel 4 into one cat header for the roadster with a O2 sensor bung it almost looks to good to mount on a car.

[stevant]

Hey Mike.........would I need a shorty header now if I go with Cats? I was going to call you on Sunday to talk after I spoke to Tony at FFR. So this header has the cat already part of it? It would bolt on to the side pipes? Not sure if I want to deal with the emission issue the Coyote setup might give me.........

[mike forte]

Hi stevant,
The headers are like 4 into 4 but have a cat at the flange to the sidepipe.

[Arrowhead]

The last I knew, only downstate NY had to have cats as that is "enhanced" emissions territory. Now being in LI yes you will need them, but not sure if that requirement is statewide - unless there's been a change.

[stevant]

With CATS come O2 sensors, right? Is there anything else, emissions related, that will need to do? I assume the OBDII is part of the Coyote setup. Are there readiness codes as so forth like a newer car or is it simply the fact that CATS are on the car? I have a lot of questions and truly appreciate everyone's advice. I'm going to call NYS DMV and speak to them today to see what they say. I just want to do it right the first time with no headaches come time for registration.

Thank you again for the info.

[wareaglescott]

Even without emissions concerns the Coyote will have 02 sensors and all the code reading capability through the OBDII plug. I have the O2 sensors on mine in the J-pipes. Others have them in the long tube headers. I just don't have to worry about the emissions part.

Mike Forts any chance you could post a picture of your setup you mention in post 8 of this thread?

[stevant]

I spoke with the NYS DMV today and would like to share what I spoke to them about. The guy I spoke to was really nice and familiar with the Factory Five cars and their history of being the better kits they come across that need to be declared road worthy. According to them, I would be subject to emissions if I use any of the modern engines (post 1996) since I live downstate on Long Island. So the Coyote, which was what I wanted to use would be held to the same standards as any modern car today. That means I would have to do a lot of prep work for the car to pass the readiness codes during the emissions testing. There is no way I'm going to take that chance and try to make that happen with so many issues that could stop me from passing that emission inspection. For me the Coyote will not work out. The positive I took from it was that as long as I use a period correct engine, brand new or not, as long as I list the fact that I am registering a 1965 Cobra replica, that engine is subject to the laws back in 1965. A PCV valve is all I would need as per DMV. I've decided to move forward with a 347 small block setup so to make the look more period correct but more importantly I won't have to worry about emissions. Looks like I can now get ready to place my order!

More to come, I'll keep you posted. :)

[Arrowhead]

The positive I took from it was that as long as I use a period correct engine, brand new or not, as long as I list the fact that I am registering a 1965 Cobra replica, that engine is subject to the laws back in 1965.

Again, not sure if things have changed, but previously it would be registered as a 20XX Custom, doesn't matter what it looks like, what year it is or anything like that. NY doesn't care. Did you call the technical services in Albany and not a local DMV?

Have you seen this fact sheet?
https://dmv.ny.gov/forms/vs100.pdf

[stevant]

I spoke to Dan at Technical Services. I am confused now..........

I was thinking as I have a residence available to me in upstate NY where I can register the Cobra. I assume that would open up my opportunities in regard to emission requirements. Can one of you please let me know what I would need emission related if I were to use the Coyote in my build?

[Feen]

from when I did this a few years ago, my understanding from tech services was that the engine needed to have ALL the emissions equipment installed that would have been required when that engine type was first used. If its a 302 variant, it needed a pcv valve only since that is all that was required in the 60's, even if the the 302 came out of a late model ford. If you go with a mod motor, it would require the emissions equipment that was required when that motor was first introduced. Since you live downstate, those systems will need to be tested as part of the annual safety inspection. PM me with contact info if you want to discuss more

[bil1024]

from when I did this a few years ago, my understanding from tech services was that the engine needed to have ALL the emissions equipment installed that would have been required when that engine type was first used. If its a 302 variant, it needed a pcv valve only since that is all that was required in the 60's, even if the the 302 came out of a late model ford. If you go with a mod motor, it would require the emissions equipment that was required when that motor was first introduced. Since you live downstate, those systems will need to be tested as part of the annual safety inspection. PM me with contact info if you want to discuss more

Feen is right this is how it was explained to me

[Jstanding]

When NYS says they need bumpers do quickjacks count or does it need overriders?

[Paparazzi]

I'm in Dutchess County (considered upstate by NYS DMV) which means I only needed a PCV for my carb'd 351W. As others mention, you need all the standard equipment for the model year of the block regardless of location. The difference between LI and upstate would only be apparent if you were using an older block and could then have got away without cats. With the Coyote it won't make any difference where you are - as Feen says, LI you'll have an emissions test, upstate you won't, but since you'll have to have the cats it's moot.

Yes, quick jacks count as bumpers. You'll need wipers, heater/demister, padded visors, padded dash, and reversing light. If you're not planning on having them on your build you can use a 12v Harbor Freight heater sat on the dash, clip on wipers, and some old socks or other material over your visors. This was my 'interior' shot that I sent to NYS DMV.

You'll also need to be weighed by a state registered weights and measures place (I used my local garbage collection company) and have a state police inspection to go over your receipts - make sure you have the major items covered to show source: they're checking for stolen parts, nothing more.

https://i1.wp.com/dutchess.x10host.com/cobra/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/IMG_20160512_174902.png

Some relevant posts from my blog:

Interior DMV shots (http://dutchess.x10host.com/cobra/?p=766)
Off to get weighed (http://dutchess.x10host.com/cobra/?p=759)
NYS Police Inspection nerves (http://dutchess.x10host.com/cobra/?p=800)

Good luck!

[cfriedman67]

Hi Paparazzi, I’m located on the otherside of the Hudson in Ulster county. (Outside of metro New York). I have read all the threads and wanted to confirm with you if I can. I’m currently building a roadster and have a 1997 mustang cobra engine in the car. From what I understand that if the car is titled as 1965 cobra I do not need Cats. I was under the assumption from talking to Albany over a year ago that I would need what a car would be expected to have in 1965. Do I have this correct as far as you understand?

Thanks Craig

[Paparazzi]

Hi Paparazzi, I’m located on the otherside of the Hudson in Ulster county. (Outside of metro New York). I have read all the threads and wanted to confirm with you if I can. I’m currently building a roadster and have a 1997 mustang cobra engine in the car. From what I understand that if the car is titled as 1965 cobra I do not need Cats. I was under the assumption from talking to Albany over a year ago that I would need what a car would be expected to have in 1965. Do I have this correct as far as you understand?

Thanks Craig

You can't register in NY as a 1965 Cobra - you'll register as a 'current year' custom, so if registering this year you'll be a '2018 Custom'.

Out of metro NY the emissions tests are far less restrictive - there aren't any. However, if you're using a 97 block you will need to have fitted all the standard emissions equipment that the engine had when in use. So if it had cats in 97, you'll need cats for registration. If you were to remove them after registration that's your call - you'll not fail for inspection since there's no emissions test (I'm not a licensed inspector, so can't guarantee that though, but I can't see any inspector cross referencing your setup with Albany).

I'm in Hopewell Junction. PM me if you're in the area and want to see my build over a coffee.

J.

[cfriedman67]

Thanks for the response. It’s funny, I called Albany to see what they would say and spoke to a gentleman by the name of Dan. I asked about registering it as a 65 cobra or a custom. As you just said it would be custom but he led me to believe that Cats would not be needed only what would be required back in 1965. I might just buy Cats from F5 and not have to worry about it. Would definitely like to check out your build sometime in the future. I am still awhile from being road worthy. Maybe sometime when the snow goes away. Thanks again.
E

[Paparazzi]

If that block were in use at any point in its history without cats than you can omit them, otherwise you'll need them for registration.

On the NYS DMV form it says something like model year of engine - it's what you put there that determines the emissions equipment expected to be in place. If the 97 block started life without cats you'd be good to specify the first year used and have the equipment as of that point.

Repeating myself but hopefully that's clear?

[cfriedman67]

It is clear and appreciate the redundancy. Looks like I will be buying a set of CATS.

[Feen]

cfriedman67.... they had already switched to mod motors by 97 right? if so you need the cats. If it was still a 320 you could get away with out them even if newer dated block. BTW I'm in southern ulster - Marlboro

[cfriedman67]

Hi Feen, they switched to the mod in 96 I believe. Have you finished your car? I’m in Accord/Stone Ridge. I checked, it’s about 30 miles away.

[Feen]

Yeah, my car is "finished". Been on road for couple years. There are a few of us that all live within 20+/- minutes of one another. (Mr Goodwrench, Bil1024, Paparazzi). So decent amount of knowlege/help here locally. PM me if you want and we can trade info.

[mburger]

I'm only posting here because I relocated almost 4 years ago from Rhinebeck NY to SW FL. I am in Poughkeepsie at least once a month for business and am familiar with the "Upstate" NY area.
Nice to see so many FFR Cobras in that area.

[cfriedman67]

PM sent

[Jcdata]

What if not using Ford engine

[fjrgary]

What if not using Ford engine

registration process much easier in fla. hint hint.

[tr6forme]

Hi stevant,
I just read your post about having to opt in for the heater and wipers for your car.
I recently bought a roadster that came with the heater and wiper parts in boxes.
I don't need them and would like to sell them. Do you have any interest?
Thanks

Tom

[UpstateCobraGuy]

I'm Upstate, and went through the "Process" 9 years ago. It's not really hard to do, just follow their rules and you will get the car you want. NYS is one of those states that require wipers and defrost. I was able to meet those requirements by using a Speedway "clip on" T-bucket manual wipers and a 12 volt hand held marine defroster. The more (correct) information that is shared between builders, the easier the build.

This thread may be a little dated, but there is plenty of important information:

http://www.ffcars.com/forums/50-insurance-registration-discussions/221630-nys-registration-process.html

PM me if you have other questions...

Pat

[AZFBcobra]

Hey Guys,

I'm not far from this as well, so I decided to get the ball rolling while I'm getting the body shop lined up. I just talked to Dan up in Albany. He was very nice and knowledgeable, and was very familiar with FFR's. He explained that regardless of engine year, NYS goes by Car application year. So, if its a 65 Roadster/Cobra replica, they will go by that car's 1965 standards as far as emissions go. This is a huge relief for me since mine is 4.6L modular build which I took over. I have the front o2's, but no CATs or true mufflers.

They do have certain other requirements such as wipers, padded dash, visors, etc. And, they obviously want to confirm ownership details and receipts for everything to make sure nothing was stolen. He's sending me the package, which I should hopefully get by the end of this week. Keeping my fingers crossed that there are no other major obstacles...

Alex

[Ponymedic]

I know Im replying way late but I just ordered the kit. Are the items still available

Nick

[ckrueger]

Yep like Feen says will need cats, FFR can help you with that, my heater is similar to the manual as I used the 302. DO a search on here and there should be some good info on the heater, also you can call FFR with any concerns. A Coyote is going to look awesome!

Not completely accurate. It might have changed. A local guy just got his Cobra with a Coyote registered with no cats and i just sent the paperwork in for mine. It is all how the paperwork is filled out. Per the guy at NYS Technical Bureau, when you list the engine, you state "the application year is 1967 Ford 302". They then go to there manual to see the emissions required in 1967, which is esentially a PCV valve. The guy had sent it in originally showing a 2016 Coyote and they required the Cats. Once he talked to them they allowed him to send a "Letter of Clarification" stating the above and the Cat requirement went away. I just sent mine in using the above wording, I'll let you know. Other than that you need bumpers, defroster, backup light, padded dash, and padded visors. A sock over the visors meets the requirement. I have been told a had held 12V hair dryer laying on the dash will meet the defroster requirement and a clip on wiper will also work. I elected to do the wiper and heater/defroster kits. Feel free to reach out to me with questions.

[fjrgary]

I also live in n.y. but registered my mark VI in fla. they were my friend!

[ckrueger]

Not hard in NY, just a process. I had posted my recent experience in a separate post, but pasted it below so it is here too.

As I wrap up the registration, I thought I would give a detailed list of the steps. While not particularly difficult, it is a process.

1. Contact NYS Technical Services Division 518-474-5282 (select option #4) Mark Shimkus is the Manager. I had good interaction with eveyone I talked to. Request the registration package.

2. In the package is a form that you complete with all the information on the car. Requires all the DOT/SAE numbers of the lenses/lights, windshield, tires. Description of the vehicle (1965 Cobra Roadster Replica) and description for the engine. For the engine you list the application year of the motor. If you are using a Coyote or have questions, please message me directly and have a few specific tips. prefer not not to list out in "Forum" land.

3. Get the vehicle weighed with a ceertified weight slip. I used a scale a truck stop. (CATS)

4. You will need photos of the car. Front, back, left, right, interior

5. Copies of the Certificate of Orgin for Factory Five and copies of all major receipts. It was easy for me as I had bought the complete kit and the engine and transmission from Mike Forte. These two invoices plus the invoice for the tires is all I sent in.

6. Some particular items for NYS. You need a padded dash. The thin padding that comes with the dash meests the requirements. You need padded sun visors. A sock slid over them and tie wrapped on meets the requirement. You need a defroster. I did the heater defroster option, but have been told that a 12v plug in hair dryer lying on the dash in the picture will meet the requirement. You need wipers. I did the wiper option, but have been told a hand operated clip on boat wiper will meet the requirement. You need a mirror on the left side of the car. I did not want to drill the fender for the one in the kit, so I submitted with just a mirror in the middle mounted on the windshield. Not accepted. I bought the mirrors from Breeze that mount to the wind wings. (nice units) They were accepted.

7. You also will get a form MV-272.1. This is your application for a VIN number. It goes to a separate department in Albany. Send in the application, $25.00 check, copies of the receipts of all major components, Certificate or Origin from Factory Five and a copy of the weight slip. The weight slip was not called out as needed in the application. You will then get a letter from the Division of Field Investigations with an appointment to have the car inspected. This is not the safety inspection. The inspection is done by the Troopers (they have guns on). They are verifing serial numbers of all the major componets to be sure they are not stolen. When you go for the inspection, they need to see the originals of everything but the weight slip and they stamp them with a special stamp. Easy for me since all items were new. If you used a donor, make sure you have the paperwork in order. I have been told that if they find stolen items they arrest and confiscate on the spot. When the inspection is complete they assign and attach a VIN to the car and give you a completed MV-272.1 This form goes with the other items in 1-6 back to Technical Services Division (Shimkus). For me the inspection location was near me in Rochester, I think they have one in Buffalo, not sure for the rest of the state. This is the same place you take a vehicle that had a salvage title or if it had been totaled and you are trying to get the title switched back so that it can be registered.

8. When the package is complete you will recieve a Form VS-103 from Technical Services. This allows you to get the car registered. The form also requires the car to have a safety inspection "before" it is registerd. The inspection number, station, inspect ID is filled out on the form. The car is registered as a 20XX Custom (year it was completed). Once complete take the package to DMV, pay the sales tax, get your insurance card and get your plates. Easy. LOL

I started the process on 11/5/18 and wrapped it up today. Probably could knock 30 days off this fairly easily if you really pushed at each step.

Please feel to message with questions.