Ideas on Creative Drivetrains?

[MBDSLPWR]

I'm narrowing my thoughts on a MkIV Roadster and seeking ideas on drivetrain selections given some criteria and design intents:

Criteria
1. EFI engine desired.
2. New components desired, from engine to rear end.
3. Low integration effort if outside V8 configuration.
4. Budget limitations are a reality but for the purposes of discussion, eliminate really expensive stuff or unobtainium.

Design Intent:
Priority #1: Superior handling in a comfortable, though not accessory-laden, roadgoing setup.
Priority #1a: Horsepower is secondary to handling and #2 below.
Priority #1b: I will not strip the car in favor of performance. The most racing this car will see is an occasional autocross.
Priority #2: A level of performance that remains interesting even after honing driving skills.

I respect, but am unbounded by, Cobra history. Engine bay visual appeal is low priority. I am not tied to V8's. In fact, if the Cummins R2.8 crate engines were 200hp, I'd seriously consider. They're 160hp / 267lbft right now.

So, that's just one idea. Other ideas?

[Bob Cowan]

"Design Intent:
Priority #1: Superior handling in a comfortable, though not accessory-laden, roadgoing setup.
Priority #1a: Horsepower is secondary to handling and #2 below.
Priority #1b: I will not strip the car in favor of performance. The most racing this car will see is an occasional autocross.
Priority #2: A level of performance that remains interesting even after honing driving skills.

I respect, but am unbounded by, Cobra history. Engine bay visual appeal is low priority. "

Nothing is going to be easier than a small block ford. The Roadster/Cobra is made specifically for that engine, and they really do just drop in. There are a multitude of EFI options available, just pick the one that appeals to you the most. Call Mike Forte, he'll put together a drop in package to meet your needs.

I would start with an aluminum Dart block, at 454 cubes, and a pair of Trick flow heads. 600hp naturally aspirated is doable. Add a blower, and 1,000 hp is possible.

Put a dual disc (for low pedal effort) clutch and a magnum 6 speed transmission behind that.

I'm a big fan of IRS. I think the car handles a lot better, and rides a lot better. Gearing should be numerically no lower than 3.55, and 3.73 is probably better with a 6 speed.

[edwardb]

I don't know how "creative" it is, but I've become an unapologetic supporter of the Ford Coyote platform for these builds. I was a bit skeptical myself before my last build. But I listened to several persuasive recommendations and took the plunge. There are multiple upsides: Outstanding power, ready to run, warranty, proven installation, clean and efficient running, starts instantly, the list could go on. But the proof is in the driving. There's nothing quite like modern computer controlled engines. It's responsive from low to high RPM's and just makes the car even more of a blast to drive. Negatives? Some say they're expensive. I say look at the value. Price a similar HP/torque custom build, and you'll spend more. Hard to install? Used to be more challenging than it is now. Changes have been made so that it fits in the engine bay plus doesn't take footspace. A little more wiring, but once done just drive it. The only real negatives are that it doesn't look or sound like an old school engine. For some this is a deal breaker, and that's OK. It's your build. Others like me enjoy the combination of an old school classic with modern updates. Lots of driveline choices to go with it. TKO, T56, etc. The 2015+ Mustang based IRS is modern, very robust, and rides great while giving the best performance. My #8674 build, link in my sig line below, has the Coyote engine and newer IRS. Just an amazing car to drive. I've just started a Gen 3 Coupe and will be following many of the same build choices.

As an aside comment, I don't know where you're located, but there's no substitute for seeing these in person. Look for owners around you. Builds underway plus completed cars. We're all usually happy to share. Depending on the location or season, rides are always good as well. These are a big enough commitment in time and money that I highly recommend travel if necessary. Also don't know about your timing. Huge Factory Five event in Huntington Beach, CA usually in April. Factory Five Open house in Wareham, MA usually in June. London Cobra Show in Ohio also in June. These are all good events to see lots of builds and talk to owners. There's also the build school in SE Michigan if you want a several day introduction.

[Gumball]

A couple thoughts for you in the event you want to stay with Ford DNA....

1) 5.2 Voodoo flat plane crank V8 from the current GT350. It's Coyote based, so should be fairly easy to integrate into the FFR platform.

2) One of the many Ford Ecoboost engines - either 4 or 6 cylinder - as used in the current Mustang, F150, etc.

[edwardb]

...5.2 Voodoo flat plane crank V8 from the current GT350. It's Coyote based, so should be fairly easy to integrate into the FFR platform...


Super cool choice, and certainly way more creative that my input. Ford isn't offering the flat plane crank version as a crate motor though. Using a GT350 as a donor or buying the parts and building your own maybe both fit the "unobtainium" category described by the OP? :p The 5.2L ALUMINATOR 5.2 XS CRATE ENGINE M-6007-A52XS, at north of $15K, is as close as Ford is offering. That's what Factory Five put in the Snap-On Tools Coupe build, so it definitely fits. Great choice if it works for the budget.

[carbon fiber]

Voodoo is unobtanium on a budget. The ecoboost would be the way to go if you ask me. FFR did a V6 ecoboost in a '33 hot rod. Way cool. I've seen the 4 cylinder ecoboost retro-fitted into a fox-body SVO Mustang that looked factory and awesome. You could go with the 4 cylinder, turn up the boost and take some weight off the front end. Sounds good to me!

[Dave Howard]

The Coyote is a great choice and I won't copy any of my past posts stating the advantages. Not having read all the posts in this thread , I'm sure all the pros have been covered. But one other thing to think about. Some people consider the Coyote less attractive than a conventional pushrod engine. I tend to agree. Many people personalize their Coyote engines by painting intake and coil pack covers. You know the old saying about putting lipstick on a pig?

If the budget can absorb the additional cost, a Coyote with 8 stack induction is beautiful. Better yet, a Coyote with a Whipple 2.9 supercharger would be the talk of every car show and show n shine.

Good luck on cloud 649.

[Bob Cowan]

I love the Coyote engine, my new Cobra has one, with a blower.

But it has one big limitation IMO. It's only 5 liters. I think this is where Ford made a big mistake. The design of the engine is just fantastic, and cube for cube, it's just unbeatable. But it's only 5 liters. Look at the LS motors, 6.2 liters from the factory, and easily stroked and bored to nearly 7 liters. Aftermarket blocks much bigger than that without changing external dimensions. Just like the old Ford Windsor engines.

If you want big power that's easily manageable in a street car, you need big cubes. Like every racer knows, you can't beat cubes. There's no replacement for displacement.

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Was an early adopter of the COYOTE/TKO-600/8.8 3 Link system. Have never regretted the choice. Car is extremely quick with no bad habits from the drive train. Put the key in & drive. Change the oil, clean the filter once a year & the maintenance is done. Out of the crate the first 2 years 24,000 miles is under FORD warranty.

[Jeff Kleiner]

...5.2 Voodoo flat plane crank V8 from the current GT350. It's Coyote based, so should be fairly easy to integrate into the FFR platform...




...Super cool choice, and certainly way more creative that my input. Ford isn't offering the flat plane crank version as a crate motor though....

Just talking about this with Dave Smith yesterday and he mentioned that Jim pointed out that with the flat plane and side exhausts without a crossover pipe it effectively becomes a pair of 4 cylinders and would sound like 2 fart can Hondas going down the road together---hence no Voodoo in the Snap On Coupe ;)

Jeff

[Gumball]

Just talking about this with Dave Smith yesterday and he mentioned that Jim pointed out that with the flat plane and side exhausts without a crossover pipe it effectively becomes a pair of 4 cylinders and would sound like 2 fart can Hondas going down the road together---hence no Voodoo in the Snap On Coupe ;)

Jeff

Hahahahahahaha!!!!! You guys are probably spot on with that comment..... but, with a cross-over, the siren sound of that engine at full tilt (8k+) is just awesome. Wife was following me and driving our GT350 when we were taking that and the FFR over to our shop for winter storage a while back and even though she was behind me, I could hear her wring that thing out and almost feel the crackle between shifts - and that's over the sound of the Gas'N pipes on the FFR. Yowza!!!! Get yourself a motor and trans out of one of the few likely to be wrecked GT350s (going rate is sub-$20k), install a crossover, and go hunting!

[GoDadGo]

Sorry, Gang,

It's got to be a carburater topped LS3 with T5/6 behind it because 5 forward gears just doesn't cut the mustard for me since 1995.

My Personal Choice With The IRS Rear:
https://paceperformance.com/i-20689705-cpsls376515t56-chevrolet-performance-ls3-533hp-carbureted-engine-with-t56-6-speed-500-00-rebate.html

Best Choice With Fuel Injection "Minus The Extra Overdrive" For The 3 Link Live Axle Set Up Has Got To Be:
https://paceperformance.com/i-23842980-gmp-tk6ls525-pace-ls3-525hp-with-tremec-tko-600-5-speed-transmission-package.html
This option should increase the driveshaft length which will reduce and likely eliminate full suspension droop bind and in and out yoke travel too.

The LS has such a minimal footprint plus the engine mounts are in the middle of the block will allow you to use the existing motor mount pads so it looks like a very easy installation.

Steve

[carbon fiber]

If the OP's intent is handling above all I still think this setup in a cobra would be sweet.7764677647 You could really lower weight and help cg at the same time. Do the engine in black/satin aluminum theme with all black an fittings and lines, etc. The exterior in metallic black w/ aluminum silver stripes... I'm a V8 guy but still think this would hit the mark for better handling, something different, and still FORD. No need for a double-hump oil pan here. That's a lot less weight, a lot further back towards center.

[UnhipPopano]

In post 10, there was a reference to how the Flat Plane engine sounds, and a less than average response from Dave. Below is a link from the Snap On Build of the Gen III coupe that has a Flat Plane Engine. Engine Sounds does not agree with the the post, but sound is a personal decision. Sound aside, Cost will not be cheep.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iFeDymN5qk

[CraigS]

The only problem w/ the 4 cyl is the sound. I haven't heard a focus my self but have autocrossed with and listened to a lot of the new BMW and Porsche turbo 4 cylinders. I won't ever own one. Seems to me the sound is inherently crap so all you can do is muffle it down and away. Gumball is right. In 2016 a real fast autocrosser was running a GT350R. There are plenty of Vettes. There are plenty of regular Mustangs. But I didn't even have to be watching to know when the GT350R was running.

[edwardb]

In post 10, there was a reference to how the Flat Plane engine sounds, and a less than average response from Dave. Below is a link from the Snap On Build of the Gen III coupe that has a Flat Plane Engine. Engine Sounds does not agree with the the post, but sound is a personal decision. Sound aside, Cost will not be cheep.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iFeDymN5qk

Pretty sure the Aluminator 5.2L XS crate used in that build isn't a flat plane crank. From Ford's website "Custom H-beam connecting rods & forged crankshaft – a cross-plane crankshaft is used to keep GT350 exclusive with the flat-plane crankshaft."

[Papa]

Check out this Viper V10 Cobra:

https://www.streetmachine.com.au/features/1704/viper-v10-powered-ac-cobra

[carbon fiber]

Not an FFR, but77661 Supercharged V12 Mercedes powered.77662

[Jim1855]

A friend had an older spare Viper motor laying around in the shop so he bought a Challenge Car. Fits pretty well but I think a bit of lube was required to squeeze it in. Running a T56 as well, it's U-joint to U-joint with the IRS. Rode in it, very nice, could have driven it but we didn't want to play in the rain any more than a run around the block.

I think a Mast Motorsports LS7 with a T56 would be satisfying. They have a few at 600hp+. Not cheap but interesting. Website is currently down or I would have included the link.

Jim

[q4stix]

Just talking about this with Dave Smith yesterday and he mentioned that Jim pointed out that with the flat plane and side exhausts without a crossover pipe it effectively becomes a pair of 4 cylinders and would sound like 2 fart can Hondas going down the road together---hence no Voodoo in the Snap On Coupe ;)

Jeff

I guess I'll be finding out before my build is done. I may start out without a crossover pipe but end up with one just to see the difference.
5.0 Voodoo in the making:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=70934&d=1500761855
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=77666&d=1512958368

[GoDadGo]

1. 383 Small Block Dart 9.7-1 Pump Gas Friendly Compression Ratio!
2. Eagle Internally Balanced Rotating Assembly With 6" H-Beam Rods With Floating Forged Flat Tops.
3. Dart Iron Eagle 215 CC Heads with 2.05 Intake & 1.60 Exhaust Valves.
4. Harland Sharp Roller Rockers & Other Go Fast Goodies.
5. Comp Cam Extreme Energy 288 Hydraulic Roller Tappet Cam
6. Edelbrock AVS 800 Feeding A Weiand 7530 Team G Single Plane Manifold.
7. Schoenfeld IMCA Modified Headers & They Really, Really Fit, But Stuff Had To Move A Bit!
8. New Old Stock Corvette ZF 6-Speed Transmission With Hydraulic Clutch. (.75 5th & .50 6th Gear Over Drives)
9. Standard Front End Set Up With Mustang Brakes & Forte’s .75” Sway Bar.
10. Standard 3 Link Moser TSD 500 Rear With 3.73 Gears & Explorer Brakes.

The Chevy Cobra Is About To Be Transformed:
https://youtu.be/PCngiKoopkA
https://youtu.be/yL4UmpII9ek

The Dart Cobra Should Be Running By New Year's Eve:
https://youtu.be/IGYtX-3p7xk
https://youtu.be/Vhbftk4AP4k

[NAZ]

Seems to me the easiest power to install would be SBF as the car was designed around it. And the Ford Performance M-6007-Z460FFT looks interesting. A 460 CI 575 HP old school small block Windsor for under $10K (less than that Cummins you were looking at). Should be enough power that you won't outgrow it for awhile and you have your choice of several self-tuning EFI systems that will work on this engine.

[Gromit]

Ok so what about the voodoo flat crank with true 2 into 1 headers. that would be 4 separate exhaust pipes on a Daytona... any thoughts if it would still sound like a fart can Honda? just the idea of a race inspired flat crank gets my motor revved up..

Chris AKA Gromit.

[Gumball]

Ok so what about the voodoo flat crank with true 2 into 1 headers. that would be 4 separate exhaust pipes on a Daytona... any thoughts if it would still sound like a fart can Honda? just the idea of a race inspired flat crank gets my motor revved up..

Chris AKA Gromit.

Ahhhhh, the Voodoo..... she's not too much to look at, but she sure has a nice voice.

http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab15/CCRsAC/Frontal%20Installed_zpsvhdywsso.jpg (http://s845.photobucket.com/user/CCRsAC/media/Frontal%20Installed_zpsvhdywsso.jpg.html)

[scottiec]

If you really wanted blasphemy then you can put in an R35. It’s the twin turbo 6 out of the Nissan GTR. It can make stupid power. And it sounds half way decent.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Pretty sure the Aluminator 5.2L XS crate used in that build isn't a flat plane crank.

Correct.

Jeff

[myjones]

I just traded in our SRT6 last week after 11 years of fun driving. For those not familiar with them that is an AMG Mercedes with a Chrysler badge.
There are a lot of the AMG, SLK/Kompressors out there that have the same engine since that's exactly what Daimler Chrysler used for this car.

They sell pretty cheap used because they are the (little brother) to the other bad to the bone AMG's. I always felt it would make a great donor for a
one off powerplant with lots of support in the aftermarket. This engine is an all aluminum 3.2 V6 with a twinscrew making 13lbs of boost and has an
air to water intercooler. The belt driven blower has an electric clutch drive that locks up at 2800 so they prevent overboost by only boosting the upper
half of the RPM range. The lightweight, autobahn designed engine has an 8.5 qt oil pan and makes 350 hp and lots of useable torque for such a small
displacement and physical size. In stock form the car runs over a Buck70 in a 3K lb car and does high 12's in the 1/4 mile in street trim. These donor
04-06 cars are selling in the $5K range and you could likely recoup most of that by selling off the rest of the donor car. How's that for out of the box?
Dale

[Mark Reynolds]

How about an Ecotec 2.4? This one comes with an all weather soft top. You can get 5 of them for the cost of building a roadser.
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=472066231&referrer=%2Fcars-for-sale%2Fsearchresults.xhtml%3FstartYear%3D1981%26so rtBy%3Drelevance%26incremental%3Dall%26firstRecord %3D0%26endYear%3D2018%26modelCodeList%3DSOLSTICE%2 6makeCodeList%3DPONT&startYear=1981&numRecords=25&firstRecord=0&endYear=2018&modelCodeList=SOLSTICE&makeCodeList=PONT&makeCode1=PONT&modelCode1=SOLSTICE
Hey he asked for creative so I thought outside the box.

[mike forte]

Hi,
I was at the Good Guys car show a few years ago. This guy had a V-10 from a pickup truck he wanted to install in his 1968 Mustang. Everyone thought he was nuts... except me. I liked it and gave him all the tech to install in his car and I supplied him with bellhousing, flywheel, clutch kit & stater to go in front of his new TKO-600.
These V-10 ford engines are cheap and plentiful... Plenty of power & torque that will sound like nothing out there. Undercar exhaust?
Call me with any questions.


I'm narrowing my thoughts on a MkIV Roadster and seeking ideas on drivetrain selections given some criteria and design intents:

Criteria
1. EFI engine desired.
2. New components desired, from engine to rear end.
3. Low integration effort if outside V8 configuration.
4. Budget limitations are a reality but for the purposes of discussion, eliminate really expensive stuff or unobtainium.

Design Intent:
Priority #1: Superior handling in a comfortable, though not accessory-laden, roadgoing setup.
Priority #1a: Horsepower is secondary to handling and #2 below.
Priority #1b: I will not strip the car in favor of performance. The most racing this car will see is an occasional autocross.
Priority #2: A level of performance that remains interesting even after honing driving skills.

I respect, but am unbounded by, Cobra history. Engine bay visual appeal is low priority. I am not tied to V8's. In fact, if the Cummins R2.8 crate engines were 200hp, I'd seriously consider. They're 160hp / 267lbft right now.

So, that's just one idea. Other ideas?

[carbon fiber]

The V10 may look and sound cool, but it's heavy and makes low power. It's an iron block engine that weighs 620lbs. and only makes 265hp on earlier versions. (362hp on later models) The op wanted handling above all else, the V10 is going to extend it's extra weight further forward in a short wheelbase car that's already front heavy. That's going to HURT handling, not improve it. He also wanted new components vs. used. Everyone complained about the sound of the 4 cyl. ecoboost, valid point. But what about the V6 ecoboost? wouldn't hurt to sound like a Ford GT would it? Second Gen 3.5 ecoboost makes 375 hp and weighs 417lbs. stock. You'll be able to find cheap take out engines with low miles if you didn't want to get the more $$$ crate engine. And you can turn up the boost.

[NAZ]

All these exotic engine ideas sound really interesting. A few ideas are very cool sounding and I'd like to see someone build them. However, most are not sound choices for a budget build. For some of these you had better bring lots of $$ and engineering / fabrication skills. If as you say "Budget limitations are a reality..." then be advised that the farther off the reservation your build gets the cost will escalate exponentially as you will be designing and engineering your way through problems that had you gone with a typical build you would not be dealing with. So while all these exotic engine ideas may be very cool sounding here's my advice: whatever you think it's going to cost you and however long you think it will take to build -- double that and you will be close to the actual cost and time to build.

[jcrumpley]

My creative drivetrain is coming along nicely. LS1 with an ASA cam, Holley Sniper intake, using 5.3 truck shorty headers to under car exhaust. GM version TKO600, Wilwood pedals and hydraulic clutch using a standard length FFR driveshaft to IRS. There has been little fabrication at all beyond spacers under the engine and transmission mounts.



77757

[Mark Reynolds]

Carbon Fiber - some good points, however the roadster is not at all front heavy, in fact it can stand some more weight in the front.

[Straversi]

My creative drivetrain is coming along nicely. LS1 with an ASA cam, Holley Sniper intake, using 5.3 truck shorty headers to under car exhaust. GM version TKO600, Wilwood pedals and hydraulic clutch using a standard length FFR driveshaft to IRS. There has been little fabrication at all beyond spacers under the engine and transmission mounts.



77757

That's very cool. Well done.
-Steve

[Scotty's65]

As Bob and Edwardb said above, the Coyote is a perfect power unit for the MKIV and is already sorted out as far as ease of installation.
It is what I'm planning, although I had a 2012 Mustang with the 3.7 Cyclone V6 which made 340hp and 280lbs ft of torque and winds happily to 7k rpm. I was thinking it would make a great roadster motor because the low trq would work well with the low weight of the roadster and it makes plenty of hp up high. However, it doesn't make the V8 sounds and it would be a tricky install as far as motor mounts etc and there is no stand alone wiring available.
The Voodoo is nigh unobtainable and really with upgrades and a tune the Coyote will easily make similar power and revs even staying NA.
For great power and sound as well as bolt in and wiring capability the Coyote is an obvious choice plus several tuners offer a Lopey idle for the Coyote so it will idle like an old school lumpy cam big block. The most cost effective and easy install is still a crate Ford Racing 302 based push rod small block and aftermarket efi system making an easy 350-ish hp.
My problem is I have a Coyote in my Mustang so I definitely drank the 'Yote Koolaid Aid.....my other question is, is this your first roadster? Some of the fellas get crazy with power but my advice to any and all newbies is watch your *** with huge power in these cars - they do not behave like even the craziest of muscle cars.

Scott

[Wylie Coyote]

Well there you have it. Read enough about other peoples experiences and opinions, even go so far as to plagiarize their posts and after a few thousand of your own, you too are considered an expert.

[3yearplan]

Well there you have it. Read enough about other peoples experiences and opinions, even go so far as to plagiarize their posts and after a few thousand of your own, you too are considered an expert.

Do I smell sarcasm ? Lol.

[carbon fiber]

Carbon Fiber - some good points, however the roadster is not at all front heavy, in fact it can stand some more weight in the front.

An extra 200 lbs. of V10 in FRONT of the axle line can't possibly help this car handle better.

[MBDSLPWR]

It's been a while since I threw this new thread up. And the replies here are great - thanks. While I'm still uncertain what the final plan will be, I am really liking the ideas here.

- A basic 302 w/self-tuning EFI as a starter engine appeals to the budget.
- I'm a fan of both terms "EocTec" and "EcoBoost."
- And it's because of my great respect for those high-HP V10's and GTR's that I'm actually going to steer clear. I know my limits, and I'm not there yet.

I had an interesting conversation with Cummins' crate engine lead today (Steve Sanders). He seemed to think the R2.8 Crate Engine would more than suffice based on the MkIV Roadster's light weight. And while some may poo-poo the idea of a turbodiesel in a FFR, you've got to admit that trading unworldly, neck-snapping acceleration for a 5sec 0-60mph and 35+mpg - while still keeping the handling qualities and looks of the Roadster - isn't a horrible compromise. I believe the automotive enthusiast community would look twice if this option existed.

No matter - I have time to sort out options. Would like to hear further thoughts / ideas!

[BluePrintEngines]

As an unbiased crate engine manufacturer...kidding...lol

I think our SBF 427 (which we can easily add EFI to) is a pretty trick setup. unconventional-ish because it's a SBF, vs and FE, but retains 427 CID. And still ford for the purists.
http://factoryfiveengines.com/blueprint-engines-factory-five-engines/blueprint-engines-mk4-roadster-engines/ford-427-carbureted-mk4

If i had to pick something non-ford related, that we don't personally offer yet, I'd love to see someone take a Gen III hemi and lightly modify the LS engine mounts.

IF i ever put together a truck, or a hotrod, it'd have one of our 408 Mopar strokers...just to be different :)

[Arrowhead]

If you can give it a couple years you should be able to pick up one of these cheap. I would just stake out a cars and coffee with a flatbed and you'll have a donor by lunch time.


https://jalopnik.com/the-2019-ford-mustang-shelby-gt500-will-be-the-most-pow-1822072045

[q4stix]

I had an interesting conversation with Cummins' crate engine lead today (Steve Sanders). He seemed to think the R2.8 Crate Engine would more than suffice based on the MkIV Roadster's light weight. And while some may poo-poo the idea of a turbodiesel in a FFR, you've got to admit that trading unworldly, neck-snapping acceleration for a 5sec 0-60mph and 35+mpg - while still keeping the handling qualities and looks of the Roadster - isn't a horrible compromise. I believe the automotive enthusiast community would look twice if this option existed.


That could be an interesting combination. You won't get the sound of a small or big block that everyone seems to love, but the novelty alone would make me stop and look while at a car show. Knowing diesel tuning, you could always turn up the boost and get more torque out of it too.

[Avalanche325]

My opinion, but that's what you asked for.

If you want to be really creative, build a hotrod. That is what they are all about. FFR hot rods have real performance. They are not the typical all show and no go like most of them. I think hot-rodded Cobras are a bit of an abomination. It is the quickest way to go from "replica" to "kit car". FFR spent years to get the opinion going the other way.

You mention autocross. Keep the car light. A Viper V10 is a big heavy truck engine. An FE would also have the weight penalty. These cars need to be rear weight biased. That is why the engine so far back to begin with.
A diesel in a Cobra? Really? I know some people just love doing weird engine swaps. However, it would be terrible for autocross. You would be shifting a lot, which is a disaster. The last thing these cars need is more torque down low. Traction is always an issue, which makes power coming on a little higher in the RPM range more usable in these cars. The first thing I look for on an autocross course is where is the earliest point that I can get out of first gear. The car is evil with 1st gear torque, going on or off the throttle. I see a lot of downside, with no upside besides fuel mileage. But, why would you care about that in a Cobra?

The Coyote is a fine engine, but they are physically HUGE for the displacement. They do fit, and all of the installation issues have been figured out. Then there is the tried and true SBF in whatever size you want / need / can afford. Light weight, lots of power, relatively inexpensive. If you want to make it a little more exotic and want EFI, put stack injection on it.

You mention "low configuration effort", that 100% pins you to a Ford V8. Well, you do want a Cobra, right?

[Sanford]

A twin turbo 289.. High RPM lowish weight...great power.. small package good sound with right sidepipes

[rx7922]

rotary engine?

[Avalanche325]

A twin turbo 289.. High RPM lowish weight...great power.. small package good sound with right sidepipes

That could be interesting. A good combination of not too far from the Cobra box, with a little exotic flare. Room in front for the snails and plumbing.


Rotary? A Cobra sitting there going rapp-pap-pa-pap-pa-pap-pap. That's just wrong.

[jceckard]

I know I'm getting a little off on a tangent from the original post, but all this talk about a diesel makes me wonder about that new F150 diesel coming out this year. Perhaps something for the FFR pickup, maybe?

[MBDSLPWR]

Avalanche325: Great input, thanks. Much of your comments are in contradiction to my ideas and direction, but the relevant information is exactly what I'm looking for.

I can empathize with the idea that modding a Cobra feels abominable. They're a very tried-and-true combination with very defined identity of V8 gas engines. You also have a point about fuel economy in a Cobra - who cares? True that. Guess my idea is a "What if? Imagine great performance AND 35mpg." I understand that a population might wrinkle their nose and say "Why? Just leave it alone." The looseness associated with FFR's 33 Hot Rod (and truck - thanks jceckard) makes a potential diesel install more palatable in that chassis.

I'd have thought the diesel's long, flat torque curve would -reduce- the amount of shifting required on an autocross course and, thus, possibility for traction loss. Get up and out of first, then run the course in 2nd relying on that big fat torque curve, maybe upshifting for a straightaway. Maybe I've got dated perceptions of peaky, high rpm gas engines or something. I certainly admit to knowing nothing about traction with these cars.

Lightness is desired; the V10 idea's cool, but not in keeping with the desired objective.

And I suppose you're right about pinning myself into a V8 with low configuration (fabrication) efforts. And stack EFI, nice touch.

Thanks for the input; I appreciate it.

-Twin Turbo 289 - nice, but probably beyond me right now.
-Rotary - I can wander from an original Cobra, but I'm not sure I can wander that far. Still, I like the concept!

Arrowhead: that's pretty funny.

[Big Blocker]

Just have to love twin turbo's . . .

https://s18.postimg.org/5h5j5amuh/Twins_2.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

Doc

[MBDSLPWR]

Just have to love twin turbo's . . .
Doc

Holy Shnikes. Your car's like Darth Vader - sinister, rooted in good, but nearly nothing left from stock! :)
Don't get me wrong, though - I'm in complete admiration of the work you've done. Wow.

[roadscholar]

Diesel power?

I see two problems here. One is weight, how much does that little Cummins weight? The other problem is the 3,000 RPM redline, gearing would be difficult.

Just thinkin'

[Sanford]

Another option would be a 2.7L ecoboost or the 3.5 ecoboost from an F150. can be tuned up...

[johnnybgoode]

My opinion, but that's what you asked for.

If you want to be really creative, build a hotrod. That is what they are all about. FFR hot rods have real performance. They are not the typical all show and no go like most of them. I think hot-rodded Cobras are a bit of an abomination. It is the quickest way to go from "replica" to "kit car". FFR spent years to get the opinion going the other way.

You mention autocross. Keep the car light. A Viper V10 is a big heavy truck engine. An FE would also have the weight penalty. These cars need to be rear weight biased. That is why the engine so far back to begin with.
A diesel in a Cobra? Really? I know some people just love doing weird engine swaps. However, it would be terrible for autocross. You would be shifting a lot, which is a disaster. The last thing these cars need is more torque down low. Traction is always an issue, which makes power coming on a little higher in the RPM range more usable in these cars. The first thing I look for on an autocross course is where is the earliest point that I can get out of first gear. The car is evil with 1st gear torque, going on or off the throttle. I see a lot of downside, with no upside besides fuel mileage. But, why would you care about that in a Cobra?

The Coyote is a fine engine, but they are physically HUGE for the displacement. They do fit, and all of the installation issues have been figured out. Then there is the tried and true SBF in whatever size you want / need / can afford. Light weight, lots of power, relatively inexpensive. If you want to make it a little more exotic and want EFI, put stack injection on it.

You mention "low configuration effort", that 100% pins you to a Ford V8. Well, you do want a Cobra, right?

SBF (lots of size/power options) has my vote too, except I'd add Webers if you wanted something different. Scott

[SteveHsr]

Take a look at the Chevrolet Performance CT 525. Quality 525 HP engine for $7500.

[MBDSLPWR]

Diesel power?
I see two problems here. One is weight, how much does that little Cummins weight? The other problem is the 3,000 RPM redline, gearing would be difficult.
Just thinkin'

Quoted weight is ~500lb, so not excessively greater than a V8.
Gearing would certainly be different than norm.

The more I investigate, the more a Cummins doesn't fit the Mk IV Roadster. Based on current market options, the most easily matched manual transmission is a T56. But chances are, it's not a proper fit. This combination is easily adapted to the '33 Hot Rod or '35 Hot Rod truck, though, which -truthfully- feel more natural.

Aw, hell. Maybe I'll throw in a Motus V4 and call it a day. :)