How do you make a power window drop (half inch or so) on opening door?

[beeman]

Not sure if this would be helpful for any of you, depending on how your door window seals are set up...
I know this is a standard feature on many convertibles...BMW, Merc, VW, etc. to protect the window seals.
Window drops about 1/2 inch on opening the door, then closes back up when the door is shut.
Is there a module that accomplishes this? Or a timed relay? This would help me out, figured some of you might like that feature as well.
Thanks!
Dave

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

IMO, this falls under the realm of "way too complicated to worry about doing on a car like this". If you're using ISIS and door poppers and inMotion it probably wouldn't be too bad to do as you could have the guys at ISIS program the door poppers so that the inMotion rolls the window down before it energizes the door popper to open the door. You'd have to add a door jamb switch so that the system knew when the door was closed so that they could program it to run the window back up when the door was closed. If you're not using ISIS and inMotion and door poppers.....it would probably take days of fabbing stuff up to make it all work together.

[beeman]

Shane,
I'd be surprised if no one would like this function, especially with the frameless windows, and the variation of seals I am seeing guys using. Especially if using a captive seal.
I think that I am going to incorporate something to make this happen, I think it will help my (self-imposed I admit) door seals.
I think it can be as simple as a timed relay firing the window motor for 1/2 sec or so when the door begins to pop open.

Here is a timed relay that has a minimum duration of .2 seconds for $20
https://www.amazon.com/Timer-Delay-Relay-Hours-Cycling/dp/B00PD65UGA/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1510844461&sr=1-1&keywords=timed+relay+12v

Here is an adjustable relay 0-20 sec for $8
https://www.amazon.com/GERI%C2%AE-Relay-Module-Delay-Switch/dp/B0126WT5QO/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1510842283&sr=8-6&keywords=timer+relay+12v

So for you electrical gurus, would one relay work for both the up and down functions of the window motor, or would you need one relay for each direction of window travel?
Thanks

[Edgeman]

Ask this on Tino's site, if it could be incorporated in to the system he designed. I think he would be the person to ask.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?24047-Introducing-the-PRO-LCDi-200-LCD-Guage-System!

[Big Blocker]

Just right off the top of my head, I'd say one relay for each direction . . . one "pulse" for up and one for down. PLUS sensors for window "position" . . . don't want the window to go up an 1/2" when it's all the way down and you want it down. So the system needs to "see" where the windows is when it gets its pulse for either direction, right?

Kinda of a simple, but maybe silly, question; why not just get the body harness and all the sensors out of a car that does this (later Mustang) and incorporate it into your build plan. These are the kinds of things that need to be done during build time when everything is open and accessible. Position sensors may be built into the motors / gears and the wiring could be rather easy . . .

Just my 2¢

Doc

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Shane,
I'd be surprised if no one would like this function, especially with the frameless windows, and the variation of seals I am seeing guys using. Especially if using a captive seal.
I think that I am going to incorporate something to make this happen, I think it will help my (self-imposed I admit) door seals.
I think it can be as simple as a timed relay firing the window motor for 1/2 sec or so when the door begins to pop open.

Here is a timed relay that has a minimum duration of .2 seconds for $20
https://www.amazon.com/Timer-Delay-Relay-Hours-Cycling/dp/B00PD65UGA/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1510844461&sr=1-1&keywords=timed+relay+12v

Here is an adjustable relay 0-20 sec for $8
https://www.amazon.com/GERI%C2%AE-Relay-Module-Delay-Switch/dp/B0126WT5QO/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1510842283&sr=8-6&keywords=timer+relay+12v

So for you electrical gurus, would one relay work for both the up and down functions of the window motor, or would you need one relay for each direction of window travel?
Thanks

That's why this gets so complicated. I don't think either of the relays you linked to would work as the one is only rated for 5A and the other looks to be good for 10A. The 10A relay might last a little while, but you're using up every bit of that 10A. Also, you don't just need one relay for up and one relay for down. You have to flip the polarity of the motor....so you would likely need 4 relays per window......one that controls + up....one for - up.....one for + down and one for - down....and they would all have to be wired to work when you need them to work, but not interfere with normal window operation from the window switches or the other set of relays.....for instance, it you're not thinking and you are manually rolling the window up with the window switch while you open your door.....the switch is giving the motor power and ground to go up, and the relays would be applying power and ground for the window to go down which would instantly result in either blown fuses, destroyed timer relays, burnt window switches or all 3. As I said in my first post.....complicated.

[beeman]

Thinking about this further, the trigger to drop the window would come from 2 sources:
1 the door jam sensor detecting the door starting to open
2 the unlock trigger either from within the car or from the keyfob (on approaching the car).
The trigger to move the window up would come from the lock button on the keyfob (on leaving the car), or the interior lock button, or manual closing the window at the window switch (not elegant but I'm not building a luxury car)
As far as window position sensing, the short burst would have essentially no effect on a window that is fully up or down, so I don't think I'm going down that rabbit hole.

[LCD Gauges]

I answered this for Doug thinking it was for him (thanks for thinking about me!) :

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?18509-LCD-Gauges-Product-Release-amp-Promo!&p=301967&viewfull=1#post301967


Anything is possible.*

In a perfect world, the module would sense when the door handle is*
moved, then send a timed pulse to the electric motor.*

After a preset time, the module would then pop the door open using a
solenoid.*

On the closing of the door, the module would wait for the 'door close'
switch to engage, then reverse the window motor. There would
have to be a limit switch to indicate the upper travel stop… or possibly
use 'current flow ' to stop the drive signal when the motor is loaded
(Window at max travel) .

The trouble with using 'current' is that is stresses
the window motor which could lead to early failure.

[LCD Gauges]

Some notes after reading this thread:
- not much fab required; Just a bracket for a photo switch per window
- one relay for each direction. Utilize the existing window relays and run parallel triggers on the inputs of each relay.
-one photodiode can determine all conditions of window drive
for the code
-code can be written to override window movement if the window to remain fully down when exiting the car ( as opposed to always pulsing regardless of window state).

That's mho anyway!

[beeman]

Appreciate the replies! I'll have to see what a photodiode is and how it works

[LCD Gauges]

About the size of a Canadian quarter, and enough gap to slide a door window through! ;)

One side provides the "beam/signal", the other side receives. It can be used
as on/off switch, or dynamic signal strength. ie: a voltage level based on beam intensity received.


They're a dime-a-dozen.
http://img.directindustry.fr/images_di/photo-mg/16540-9636133.jpg

[beeman]

That's why this gets so complicated. I don't think either of the relays you linked to would work as the one is only rated for 5A and the other looks to be good for 10A. The 10A relay might last a little while, but you're using up every bit of that 10A. Also, you don't just need one relay for up and one relay for down. You have to flip the polarity of the motor....so you would likely need 4 relays per window......one that controls + up....one for - up.....one for + down and one for - down....and they would all have to be wired to work when you need them to work, but not interfere with normal window operation from the window switches or the other set of relays.....for instance, it you're not thinking and you are manually rolling the window up with the window switch while you open your door.....the switch is giving the motor power and ground to go up, and the relays would be applying power and ground for the window to go down which would instantly result in either blown fuses, destroyed timer relays, burnt window switches or all 3. As I said in my first post.....complicated.

I would definitely feed the voltage from the timed relays through a high amp Bosch relay. If you pair up a couple of Bosch relays, you can make a system that flips the polarity to the window motor depending on whether you want the window to go up or down. So I agree, you would need 2 Bosch relays and 2 timed relays per window, or just make both windows move in tandem. I'll attach a schematic I found, timed relay could provide pos or neg pulse.

76839

76840

As far as an electronic limit mechanism, are they common on car windows? I know that physical limits exist. Seems that even on late model cars I've owned, if the window is all the way up and you hit the up switch (like checking your windows are all up heading into the car wash), you still hear the window motor trying to push the window up farther.

[LCD Gauges]

I'm not too certain how the car manufacturers achieve this; I've tried searching a few
key terms and end up with Remote Window controllers.

I'd imagine it's all computer controlled with mechanical limit switches?

In my head, the photo-diodes solve a bunch of issues and seem much easier to
implement. They can even be polled at each start-up to test integrity before
the system executes any commands.
76842
76841

[DaveS53]

The C7 Corvette has this feature, but all of the latches on the car are electric, not mechanical. The signal to lower the window would have to come first, so the window drops before any door opening occurs. Trying to do this with bulky 5 pole automotive relays would create quite a mess of wiring I imagine that production cars have solid state circuits that are quite compact and complicated to make this happen. I know that my Corvette has about 100 fuses in it, compared to about 20 needed for the average hot rod. There's a second fuse panel hidden under the carpet in the storage area, that is extremely difficult to access, because the plastic panels surrounding the carpet don't allow the carpet to be removed easily.

[first time builder]

ON factory setup controlled by the BCM.

[KGTM]

Not sure if still searching for this or not, but will have this option on my car if few weeks or so.

[LCD Gauges]

A bit of a coincidence as I'm working with a customer to convert their G35 to a Vaydor kit ( a shameless plug too! :D)
They want the windows operated from the LCD system touchscreen as opposed to mechanical buttons.

Infinity uses an encoder, and integrated limit switch within the motor to track the window position. The BCM monitors all
data via CANBUS, and executes the window drop when it senses the door open/close (via the door switch).

In the case of the GTM, you can incorporate limit switches, or photo-diodes as mentioned above to track the window position
using the Corvette window motors.

109183109184

[KGTM]

I have no button in my car expect what is on steering column the reset are all on my dash system.

Also adding a Steering controls that will use only use 1 wire ( the horn) for all the button and no battery needed, this is not complete yet so can not share much but may be once I get my doors in and pass the light test needed in CA.