Looking for replament bushings Upper control arm

[dpariso]

My upper control arm bushings squeak! It's driving (pun intended) me crazy! I lubed them up top no avail. I just want to replace the bushings but can find who sells them. Any ideas?

Roadster Mark III

[edwardb]

I had those same UCA's on my Mk3. But what they're providing now are a different supplier. Someone more familiar with that vintage may know if replacement parts are available. I never had to replace anything, so I don't know. Have you tried disassembling them and then lubing? Sometimes those don't take grease through the zerk very well. Also make sure the retaining nuts on the ends of the cross shafts aren't too tight.

FYI, for several years now FF has been providing pivot bracket and bushings that look like this: http://www.spcalignment.com/component/content/index.php?option=com_spc&task=part_description&pid=92025.

[Bob Cowan]

As he said, sometimes simply squirting grease into the zerk fitting isn't enough. Try taking them apart, clean them up, and re-assembly with plenty of high quality grease. Sometimes you find that they've run dry, and the shaft is scored enough that they need to be replaced. That's more common than you might think.

http://www.spcalignment.com/spc-performance

[Big Blocker]

SPC or Speedway motors may be able to help you replace them as an assembly.

Early (MKI & II) Pole Position arms were notorious for not being able to lube the upper shaft very well. The fix was to grind a small (shallow) groove in the bushing surface to allow the grease to "flow" into the whole bushing area.
15 years on the road with my MKII and no issues after that simple modification. Take them apart and inspect for scoring first. If nothing is wrong with the bushing surface on the shaft, grind a groove in that surface then polish with 600 wet-n-dry sandpaper or emery cloth . . . we're only talking about a few thousandths here, don't get crazy. You only need a small "channel" for the grease to get everywhere its needed. Try to line the groove up with the zerk port if possible.

The one that EdwardB references above in his link is the older MKI & MKII style made originally by Pole Position.

Doc

[edwardb]

The one that EdwardB references above in his link is the older MKI & MKII style made originally by Pole Position.

Doc

Actually, I was under the impression that what they're selling now is SPC Performance (formerly Pole Position). Which is why I posted that link. If they're not, then they're exact copies. From my most recent Mk4 build and same as what I see everyone else using now.

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%2020th%20Anniversary%20Mark%204%20R oadster/Front%20Suspension/th_IMG_3305_zpsa3rg71g8.jpg (http://s867.photobucket.com/user/edwardb123/media/Factory%20Five%2020th%20Anniversary%20Mark%204%20R oadster/Front%20Suspension/IMG_3305_zpsa3rg71g8.jpg.html)

[AC Bill]

When you lube them, do you see grease protrude at the ends with the nuts? If not, they are probably not getting greased thoroughly.

[CraigS]

Try this. Remove the 5/8 or 11/16 nuts and bolts so you can spin the pivot around the shaft. Grease, spin, grease, spin, grease, spin. You can buy the new style pivots like in EdwardB's pic from SPC through Summit. I am not sure the diameter will match your cross shaft though. If they don't, then you will need to order cross shafts. Get the numbers from here on pg 148. Pivots = 92025. Shaft = 93400
http://www.spcalignment.com/images/stories/catalogs/SPC_Cat_2017-web.pdf
Order from Summit.
These pivots have excellent grease channels.

[Big Blocker]

Edward,

No disrespect . . . I was only referring to the original post that showed a different type of upper shaft, and since it's been 15 years since I assembled mine (MKII), I didn't realize that F5 had changed the upper shaft configuration. It looks completely different then mine. When did F5 go back to the older Pole Position style swivel on the ends (as apposed to what is shown in post #1)??

Doc

[edwardb]

Edward,

No disrespect . . . I was only referring to the original post that showed a different type of upper shaft, and since it's been 15 years since I assembled mine (MKII), I didn't realize that F5 had changed the upper shaft configuration. It looks completely different then mine. When did F5 go back to the older Pole Position style swivel on the ends (as apposed to what is shown in post #1)??

Doc

No problem. None taken. I don't know much more than I already posted. My Mk3's looked just like the ones the OP posted. My first Mk4 they were different, same as the second Mk4 in the picture I posted. I assume those are SPC Performance (Pole Position) because they match the pictures and descriptions exactly. But they aren't marked anywhere. I only posted the pic of the new style to let the OP know the current parts are different so current replacement parts likely wouldn't be an exact fit.

Interesting that several others also mentioned taking the pivots off and lubing the joints up with everything apart. When I tried to lube the pivots on my Mk3 (same as what the OP pictured) I never really felt like they took grease very well. I was eventually able to get them done, but seemed harder than it should be. For the newer style parts like I mentioned came with my Mk4's, they apparently have some grooves in the poly bushings. Grease pumps in much easier and comes out evenly spaced all around the washer/nut on the end.

[dpariso]

Gents, thanks for all the feedback. You are ALL a wealth of knowledge and I GREATLY appreciate the help and guidance.
I have exhausted all possibilities finding replacement rubber bushings from various vendors... they just don't make them anymore. FFR recommends that I buy the complete upper control arm. That's not a financial burden however, the new upper control arm does not look as 'robust' as the current one I have.

76869

[dpariso]

Before I buy it Ill do as some of you recommended... take it apart and lube it up.

[rich grsc]

Did the bolts get loosened when the alignment was done. It's a must to loosen the bolts, or the pivot is put in a bind.

[Derald Rice]

http://www.spcalignment.com , based in Longmont Colorado bought the old pole position rights, and is now producing the upper a arms for factory five. Last year, when a gorilla who did not know what a left hand thread was, tried to align my car, they bent some of the parts .

I walked in, and they were very helpful in getting me the replacement parts ( I have the pole position arms) to repair the damage. When we walked into the warehouse there was a surprising inventory of all versions of these arms.

Good service, good prices, and best of all, a rare opportunity to have vendor who is local to me.

Derald.

EDIT: I just found their business card, and the person who helped me was Jeff Hargash. He is also the person who is most knowledgeable on the factory five arms.

[Jeff Kleiner]

The silver and black upper arms shown in the first post which were used on Mk3s and early Mk4s are notorious for often times not accepting lube at the link to cross shaft joint. Some will take lube and others don't. Those that don't eventually gall and seize...but before they do they start squeaking as they get tight and stop squeaking when they seize!!!! I've had customer cars brought to me that did just that and replaced them with the SPC arms discussed. I agree, the clevis at the ball joint plate on the SPC arms does not appear to be especially robust but I know of no failures.

Jeff

[Flyguy561]

If anybody comes up with any part numbers for MK3 replacements it would be greatly appreciated. I take mine apart every couple of months and grease them because of being so paranoid they will fail.

[CraigS]

If anybody comes up with any part numbers for MK3 replacements it would be greatly appreciated. I take mine apart every couple of months and grease them because of being so paranoid they will fail.

You really don't want MkIII replacements. You want to upgrade to the newest parts that I listed above. They are much improved.

[Flyguy561]

Thanks Craig,i didn't want to have to purchase whole new arms.

[Driver_WT]

Try this. Remove the 5/8 or 11/16 nuts and bolts so you can spin the pivot around the shaft. Grease, spin, grease, spin, grease, spin. You can buy the new style pivots like in EdwardB's pic from SPC through Summit. I am not sure the diameter will match your cross shaft though. If they don't, then you will need to order cross shafts. Get the numbers from here on pg 148. Pivots = 92025. Shaft = 93400
http://www.spcalignment.com/images/stories/catalogs/SPC_Cat_2017-web.pdf
Order from Summit.
These pivots have excellent grease channels.

Craig, you are a wealth of information. Do you happen to know the part number for the end of the adjustable sleeve, and will this set up work with the older style upper control arms (i.e. can I retrofit my old style upper control from Mk 3.1 with parts from SPC to be like the latest upper control arms from FFR?

Thanks.

Wade

[CraigS]

The part numbers I gave in post #7 fit perfectly on my MkII UCAs. Confirm that the threaded sleeves are 3/4 inch and you will be fine. No need for new ends. For a stronger clevis look here for the one I use
https://www.mcmaster.com/#clevis-rod-ends/=1ad5we2
Go to next to bottom, 3/4x 3/8x3/8 I can't remember if it is left or right hand thread. The slot is 3/8 so you will need a 1/8" thick washer since the ball joint plate is 1/4 inch. You will also need to drill out the hole in the clevis to 7/16. These are substantially meatier.
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4522/26804037269_b2b5335704_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/GQzGrB)new clevis (https://flic.kr/p/GQzGrB) by craig stuard (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152454123@N04/), on Flickr
Also note that the new cross shaft is slightly shorter
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4558/24708198938_8c78881474_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/DDnYHY)new cross shaft and pivots (https://flic.kr/p/DDnYHY) by craig stuard (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152454123@N04/), on Flickr

[Driver_WT]

Thanks Craig. OP has Mk 3 version, so the inboard side of the UCA is a little different. Looks like these parts from Jegs would allow the MK 3 UCA to be converted to newest style UCA from FFR (at least on the inboard side). About $150 for upgrade parts per side.

Steel Cross Shaft http://www.jegs.com/i/Specialty-Products/827/93400/10002/-1
Offset Pivot Bracket http://www.jegs.com/i/Specialty-Products/827/92025/10002/-1
UCA End Pivot Stud http://www.jegs.com/i/Specialty-Products/827/92005/10002/-1

Or this entire UCA looks close for $150, but adjusting sleeves may be longer http://www.jegs.com/i/Specialty-Products/827/92142/10002/-1

[CraigS]

Thanks Craig. OP has Mk 3 version, so the inboard side of the UCA is a little different. Looks like these parts from Jegs would allow the MK 3 UCA to be converted to newest style UCA from FFR (at least on the inboard side). About $150 for upgrade parts per side.

Steel Cross Shaft http://www.jegs.com/i/Specialty-Products/827/93400/10002/-1
Offset Pivot Bracket http://www.jegs.com/i/Specialty-Products/827/92025/10002/-1
UCA End Pivot Stud http://www.jegs.com/i/Specialty-Products/827/92005/10002/-1

Or this entire UCA looks close for $150, but adjusting sleeves may be longer http://www.jegs.com/i/Specialty-Products/827/92142/10002/-1

Yes, your are correct. I am sorry I missed the inner end is definitely different.

[tonywy]

On the older style arms what does anybody think about using anti seize for a lubricant ? I know you would have to disassemble them to do it but it's really not that much work.

[dpariso]

Hello Craig. I want to lube the upper control arm zerk and spin it around a few times. Before I do, is the shock under pressure (sorry if its a dumb Q but I'm a newbee)? Would I have to unscrew the height adjusting nut to relieve spring pressure... or can I just un screw it here, swing out the arm, grease it spin it around several times

77643.

[CraigS]

Yes, just remove those small bolts in the pivot. The suspension hangs based on the shock extending to it's limit so it won't drop down, but the spindle and brakes will tend to swing outward. That also isn't a problem because the lower ball joint will only move so far EXCEPT for the brake hose. Make sure it doesn't get stretched. I usually put a jack stand under the wheel studs. Adjust your main jack so there is maybe 1/8 clearance between the stand and the studs and the stand will catch the hub after it moves just a little so you can spin the pivot. I usually only do one pivot at a time which also helps to contain things. Loosen both bolts but remove just one at a time.

[dpariso]

Great! Thanks for the support. One more thing... do you know the torque for the bolts? I found a few charts on the forum but none called out the pivot bolts

[edwardb]

Great! Thanks for the support. One more thing... do you know the torque for the bolts? I found a few charts on the forum but none called out the pivot bolts

The assembly manual doesn't provide a torque value for the pivot nuts. Instructions are to tighten them until the UCA drops slows slowly from its own weight. Obviously this is intended to be done before the spindle is attached so not possible in your case. Unless someone has a torque value they recommend, I would say tighten until there's no play but still loose enough to move freely.