Ron Francis Dash question

[cfriedman67]

I have the Ron Francis Dash harness and the Vintage gauges purchased through FFR. Are there instructions that I am missing in reference to hooking up all the wires that come out of the back of the gauges that attach to the bundle of wires that is the dash harness? A lot of them have connectors while some are bare wires. I have the 4 page instruction printout that I downloaded from FFR that describes how to hook up the different units such as tach, speedometer sending unit, water temp sending unit, oil pressure sending unit etc...

Thanks
Craig

[Papa]

I have the Ron Francis Dash harness and the Vintage gauges purchased through FFR. Are there instructions that I am missing in reference to hooking up all the wires that come out of the back of the gauges that attach to the bundle of wires that is the dash harness? A lot of them have connectors while some are bare wires. I have the 4 page instruction printout that I downloaded from FFR that describes how to hook up the different units such as tach, speedometer sending unit, water temp sending unit, oil pressure sending unit etc...

Thanks
Craig

In the box with the harnesses, there should be a harness instruction manual. Be sure to read it though before starting as there are different instructions for the different gauge packages as well as some EFI-specific instructions.

[smokinss]

I tried to attach the 42 page Ron Francis wiring harness but the 4.86mb file is too large. If you will email me I will send it to you.
Maybe this link will work too:

https://www.ronfrancis.com/images/FFR06-INST.pdf

[phileas_fogg]

I tried to attach the 42 page Ron Francis wiring harness but the 4.86mb file is too large. If you will email me I will send it to you.
Maybe this link will work too:

https://www.ronfrancis.com/images/FFR06-INST.pdf

Note that this link is to RF harness Rev N, published in September 2014. There have been some updates in the past three years, so what you have in hand may not exactly match what's in the link.

I've found that the RF diagrams in the link are INVALUABLE.


John

[cfriedman67]

To smokinss and John, I have that book and did not think it was correct as the back of my gauges/wires are very different. Most of the wires have connectors already attached to them. Some have two pins and some have three. I don't really have any electrical experience and was hoping that there were directions/pictures that are related to the gauges that I have. It sounds like that is not the case?

[Papa]

To smokinss and John, I have that book and did not think it was correct as the back of my gauges/wires are very different. Most of the wires have connectors already attached to them. Some have two pins and some have three. I don't really have any electrical experience and was hoping that there were directions/pictures that are related to the gauges that I have. It sounds like that is not the case?

If you have the Vintage gauges, the instructions start further into the book; just past the standard gauge wiring.

[japollon]

I have the classic, GPS speedometer, set for my 289 FIA. In the box with the gauges is a set of instructions. I also have the RF harness and the instruction manual referenced here that came with the kit. I think part of the problem is these two documents are inconsistent with some of the installation/wiring instructions, especially for the novice electrician! The instructions in the box with the gauges seems to assume you will use a donor car so I am guessing the RF manual takes precedence? It's a little confusing to me as well cfriedman.

[cfriedman67]

Hi Papa,
Not in my book. I will call FFR to inquire.

[edwardb]

There have been a number of threads and posts about the combination of the RF harness and the FF Vintage (Speedhut) gauges. The RF installation manual for the gauges shows a different gauge package, so isn't too useful. But the schematic is definitely helpful. Follow it carefully plus all the wires in the dash harness are marked. Your Speedhut gauges came with instructions. Follow those closely and connect to the RF harness using the Speedhut instructions and RF schematic. The Speedhut sending units are all 2-wire, so need a signal plus ground. That won't show in the RF schematic, but is pretty straightforward.

I've heard that there's a brand new version of the RF harness that comes pre-wired for the Speedhut gauges. Sounds like too late for you, but good news for future builders.

[Ducky2009]

I have the Ron Francis Dash harness and the Vintage gauges purchased through FFR. Are there instructions that I am missing in reference to hooking up all the wires that come out of the back of the gauges that attach to the bundle of wires that is the dash harness? A lot of them have connectors while some are bare wires. I have the 4 page instruction printout that I downloaded from FFR that describes how to hook up the different units such as tach, speedometer sending unit, water temp sending unit, oil pressure sending unit etc...

Thanks
Craig

Craig,
You might think that the gauge wires plug directly into the chassis harness wires... for the most part, they don't. Speedo is GPS, see instructions. Tach wire connects directly to engine. Voltage wires to 12 volt power source. Oil gauge - directly to engine. Temp gauge - directly to engine. They do not plug into any wires "IN" the harness.

The fuel gauge does connect to wires in the harness. Turn indicator lights and high been indicator light does connect to harness as well.

Common wiring harness connections - Gauge face lights and gauge needle lights. Need a power source, controlled my ignition.... only on when key is on.

Ducky aka David

Fuel gauge

[edwardb]

Craig, You might think that the gauge wires plug directly into the chassis harness wires... for the most part, they don't. Speedo is GPS, see instructions. Tach wire connects directly to engine. Voltage wires to 12 volt power source. Oil gauge - directly to engine. Temp gauge - directly to engine. They do not plug into any wires "IN" the harness.

You can do it that way, and many do. But you can also connect the Speedhut wires to the marked RF wires in the dash harness and then connect the Speedhut wires to the RF harness sending unit harness. The advantage to that approach is then you just have the large RF connectors between the dash harness and the chassis harness vs. a additional smaller wires, which I prefered. But either way works. Whatever you're more comfortable with. No right or wrong.

[cfriedman67]

I am asking this question with no experience. In the RF kit, you receive white wires with connectors as well as others all though I do not remember the color. Can I assume those are used to connect the vintage gauge wires that have black pin connectors on them? Also, when you say the RF wire harness is marked. Do you mean they are labeled with stickers (mine is not) or do you need to look at each IND wire and what is printed on it?

[edwardb]

I am asking this question with no experience. In the RF kit, you receive white wires with connectors as well as others all though I do not remember the color. Can I assume those are used to connect the vintage gauge wires that have black pin connectors on them? Also, when you say the RF wire harness is marked. Do you mean they are labeled with stickers (mine is not) or do you need to look at each IND wire and what is printed on it?

Yea, there are some wires and connectors to diet from the RF harness. Don't try to match colors. The RF wires have ink stamped marking, not labels, and yes you need to look at each one. Take it one gauge at a time and it hopefully will make sense.

Here are instructions from Jeff Kleiner on the other forum is this thread: http://www.ffcars.com/forums/17-factory-five-roadsters/295969-ffr-gauge-wiring-question.html

"For sure keep the dash harness.

The Speedhut/FFR Classic gauges use 2 wire senders while the RF harness is set up for one wire so I recommend doing kind of a hybrid. You'll need to power up all of the gauges on their red wire by connecting them to the brown "gauge feed" wire in the harness. Also connect the black "ground" wire in the dash harness to each of the gauges' black wires. You will carry the tachometer signal from the coil on the purple "coil-tach" wire that runs all the way through in the sending units subharness. The speedo signal comes through the green and gray wires which will join the yellow/red and yellow/black wires on the gauge. Polarity is not important as it is only counting pulses. For the coolant temperature and oil pressure gauges run the long pigtail with the yellow/red and yellow/black wires to their respective senders. Once again polarity is not an issue because these are reading resistance. The voltmeter has no sender, the gauge power and ground give it all it needs. Fuel gauge connects to the light green "gas sender" wire. I recommend powering the clock from the red "radio memory" wire. That will get everything working!

Next move on to gauge lighting. The white wire from all of the gauges connects to the RF harness white "dash lights" wire. If you have the seperate dimmer module the white harness "dash lights" wire connects to the input of the dimmer; the dimmer's black ground connects to the black harness ground. From there the dimmers output snaps into the connectors for the lighter gauge wire. It seems redundant but is this way because the needles are lighted independently from the gauge face and are not dimmed. If you do not have the dimmer module then the small white wire at the end of the snap together chain also connects to the harness "dash lights" wire. By the way, before you drive yourself crazy thinking something is wrong the hands on the clock are not lighted."

[cfriedman67]

Thank you for the link and explanation. Will give a go this weekend.

[japollon]

Ok, I give! Here is a picture of my gauge set. Are these the Speed Hut/FFR Classic gauges? My car is a 289 FIA.

Also attached are the instructions that came in the box with the gauges. Notice that the revision date is 2007. I can't imagine that there is not something more recent?

75796
75797

[Papa]

Ok, I give! Here is a picture of my gauge set. Are these the Speed Hut/FFR Classic gauges? My car is a 289 FIA.

Also attached are the instructions that came in the box with the gauges. Notice that the revision date is 2007. I can't imagine that there is not something more recent?

75796
75797

Those are the Speedhut gauges (a.k.a. Vintage gauges). And, they are the newer ones with the turn signal and high beam indicators in the speedo. My RF Harness manual has specific instructions for connecting these to the RF harness. I'm at work right now, but will get more details later tonight once I get home.

Dave

[Jdav]

Ok, I give! Here is a picture of my gauge set. Are these the Speed Hut/FFR Classic gauges? My car is a 289 FIA.

Also attached are the instructions that came in the box with the gauges. Notice that the revision date is 2007. I can't imagine that there is not something more recent?

75796
75797

Those look similar, but not identical to my FFR Vintage gauges. Notice the words Factory Five Racing on the tach & Speedo. You have oil temp instead of a clock. You have a normal speedo instead of a reverse.
Not sure if there is a difference between what is supplied for the 289s vs the MK IVs or difference in when they were made (mine were delivered in Feb 2017, just after they started including the turn signal indicators on the gauge face) or something else.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=75798&d=1508781754

[Bguetter]

Following. I also have the 289 gauges and there doesn’t seem to be a lot of info on how to wire these up. Maybe someone can post a picture of the wiring coming off the back of the gauges.

[phileas_fogg]

Hi Craig,

If I'm following the discussion correctly, you do in fact have Rev N of the RF harness, the classic (Speedhut) gauges provided by F5, and your speedometer uses GPS as its sensor and has the high beam indicator & turn signal indicators integrated into the face. Good news: lots of folks with less experience than you have successfully wired their dash!

There's a bunch of stuff provided with the RF harness that you won't need. See that zip lock bag with all those 6" wires (mine has 5 white, 6 brown, and 6 black - all with blue spade connectors at each end)? They're for the donor gauges; you don't need them.

In the RF dash harness itself, see the two speedometer sensor wires (they're the gray and green ones Jeff mentions in the instructions Edwardb posted)? You don't need them either because your speedometer is driven by GPS. A second pair of these speedometer sensor wires show up in the loose wires of the RF main harness; again, you don't need them. In your RF rear harness, you'll see the speedometer sender plug sticking out from the wire loom. Let it dangle unconnected for now.

Depending on your engine (carb vs. EFI; type of EFI) there are other wires that won't be needed as well. When you connect RF wires to other wires, write down what you did & take pictures! This will help you troubleshoot.

Follow the instructions Edwardb provided and take it one wire at a time. And remember there are lots of folks here that will help.


John

[cfriedman67]

Hi John,
Thanks for the explanation regarding what is needed and what is not. It is all very helpful. I currently only have a picture of my gauges with me but it does have the green turn signal indicators, not sure about the high beam from the picture. I know with all the help and tips people haven given in the short amount of time today I am in a much better place.

Thanks

[phileas_fogg]

No worries.

I should also mention that you can't just leave the speed sensor out of your transmission, or else it will leak fluid out the sensor fitting. You can either buy a plug (Forte sells a nice one) or get a sensor (to which you can connect the plug so that it looks right). If you go the sensor route, you want the Standard Motor Products SC37 Speed Sensor (available on Amazon for $23); it's got the proper seal. I'm pretty sure the sensor F5 provides with the complete kit does NOT have the seal.


John

[Bguetter]

Ok, I give! Here is a picture of my gauge set. Are these the Speed Hut/FFR Classic gauges? My car is a 289 FIA.

Also attached are the instructions that came in the box with the gauges. Notice that the revision date is 2007. I can't imagine that there is not something more recent?



75796
75797

Japollon- i posted a thread under the 289 Electrical section about the 289 gauges. I think we have different gauges that the roadsters. Looks like you and i are both at the same step, maybe we can figure it out together over in that section.

[Papa]

Sorry for the confusion I may have added to the discussion. I assumed, incorrectly, that the harness would be the same for all the roadster models. For what it's worth, my harness instructions are Revision S, February 2017. The Vintage gauge section starts on page 54 and wraps up in page 61. I found the instructions very easy to follow and the dash harness well marked. The latest (Rev T) book is available for download from FFR here: https://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Chassis-Harness-rev-T.pdf

Dave

[japollon]

I'm more confused than ever!!! Haha

So it appears there are different gauge sets and within those new versions and older versions. As well, it seems that the RF harnesses can be different. Mine are the later version of the 289 FIA gauge set with the clockwise speedometer and turn signal and high beam indicators on the face of the speedo.

Some of the plugs in my gauge harness are compatible with plugs on included with my gauge set. Some are not. See the pictures below. The white plugs on the harness will plug into each of the engine function gauges. Not so for the speedometer and the Tachometer.

So the question is, do I use the plugs then deal with the grounds and lights separately? There are many more wires in the gauge harness that seem to need a home. Guess I will figure that out as I go.

75838
75839

[Vspeeds]

Ok, I give! Here is a picture of my gauge set. Are these the Speed Hut/FFR Classic gauges? My car is a 289 FIA.

Also attached are the instructions that came in the box with the gauges. Notice that the revision date is 2007. I can't imagine that there is not something more recent?

75796
75797

Sorry I cant provide info on the wiring as I havent gotten to that point yet.... but

Japollon
Those gauges are for the 289 and are larger in diameter than the 427 roadster classic gauges. I ended up with both and returned the 289 gauges for the smaller 427 gauges. I also bought a blank dash.

[cfriedman67]

PM sent

[phileas_fogg]

I'm more confused than ever!!! Haha

So it appears there are different gauge sets and within those new versions and older versions. As well, it seems that the RF harnesses can be different. Mine are the later version of the 289 FIA gauge set with the clockwise speedometer and turn signal and high beam indicators on the face of the speedo.

Some of the plugs in my gauge harness are compatible with plugs on included with my gauge set. Some are not. See the pictures below. The white plugs on the harness will plug into each of the engine function gauges. Not so for the speedometer and the Tachometer.

So the question is, do I use the plugs then deal with the grounds and lights separately? There are many more wires in the gauge harness that seem to need a home. Guess I will figure that out as I go.

75838
75839

I have an older harness & gauge set, but I'll pass on what I know.

All of your gauges appear to have three sets of wires. The "black / black with white dash" is your gauge lighting. If your gauge set is like mine, it came with a harness that clicks onto each gauge; for me this harness is easily identifiable by the 1" x 1" x 2" inverter at one end. Black with white dash is face lighting (and is dimmable); black is ground. Connect the RF white "dash lights" wire to the black with white dash wire, and the RF black "ground" wire to the black wire.

The red/white/black set is your gauge power & needle lighting. Again, If your gauge set is like mine, it came with a harness that clicks onto each gauge. Red is gauge power, white is needle lighting, & black is ground. Connect the RF brown "gauge feed" wire to the red wire, the RF black "ground" wire to the black wire, and the RF white "dash lights" wire to the white wire.

The "yellow" set goes to the gauge's sending unit; these appear to have a corresponding connector in the RF dash harness - with one exception. The speedometer uses GPS for its sensor, so you won't use the RF gray & RF green speed sensor wires (which are shown almost dead center in your second photograph). The speedometer also has wires for the turn signal & high beam indicators. Mine didn't so I can't speak to that wiring.

As for the tachometer, I can see the corresponding connector in the RF dash harness; it's just below the speed sensor connector in the second picture & has a purple wire labeled "Coil - Tach". Are you sure this connector doesn't fit to the tach? Mistakes do happen at the RF factory, but they're kind of rare now.


John

[slpro1207]

Those look similar, but not identical to my FFR Vintage gauges. Notice the words Factory Five Racing on the tach & Speedo. You have oil temp instead of a clock. You have a normal speedo instead of a reverse.
Not sure if there is a difference between what is supplied for the 289s vs the MK IVs or difference in when they were made (mine were delivered in Feb 2017, just after they started including the turn signal indicators on the gauge face) or something else.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=75798&d=1508781754

Jdav, after seeing your picture I noticed my FFR vintage gauges are exactly like your with one exception. My water temp gauge is in Celsius vs. Fahrenheit.

[initiator]

Speedhut will change Celsius to Fahrenheit on an existing gauge, and add the high beam and turn indicator lights to an existing speedo for a small charge. $70 for both, in my case - they have them right now.

[Bguetter]

Speedhut will change Celsius to Fahrenheit on an existing gauge, and add the high beam and turn indicator lights to an existing speedo for a small charge. $70 for both, in my case - they have them right now.

Speedhut can also add GPS to an older model for $70 and add the indicators. I'm having GPS and indicators added to mine for a little over $100. Not bad.

[Papa]

More good news! FFR has the complete updated wire harness book (Rev T) available in full-color PDF for download here: https://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Chassis-Harness-rev-T.pdf

[initiator]

Thanks, Papa!

[Bguetter]

More good news! FFR has the complete updated wire harness book (Rev T) available in full-color PDF for download here: https://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Chassis-Harness-rev-T.pdf

These are MUCH better than what i have. Thanks for posting!

[cfriedman67]

Can someone tell me which wire is the power distribution wire? Does it come off the RF harness?

[Papa]

From the main harness, there are three feed wires that go to the starter post where the battery cable connects. They are labeled as:

Red-Battery Feed
Red-Alternator FD
Red-IGN SW->SOL

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4462/37959203472_6f9ba6d677_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/ZQjQHo)

I plan to run a bus bar up on the firewall and then just a single feed wire from the starter to the bus bar.

https://www.amazon.com/JEGS-Performance-Products-10522-Terminal/dp/B00AMEJHCG/ref=pd_sbs_23_36?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00AMEJHCG&pd_rd_r=G27AJQEYCVWN9S0PSKDR&pd_rd_w=56Q2c&pd_rd_wg=xpwcH&psc=1&refRID=G27AJQEYCVWN9S0PSKDR