Upper control arm questions...manual, book, and parts don't jive...

[Yama-Bro]

I started on the upper control arms this evening, but ran into some conflicting info between the manual, the "How to build Cobra kit cars" book and the parts themselves. So now I have questions:

1. Looking at my arm and comparing to the manual, I think it is assembled wrong. Should the threaded end be flipped the other way?
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4511/37870021601_739c6e8f96_b.jpg

2. Which mounting holes do I use in the frame? The holes with center lines that are perpendicular to the ground, or the holes that are parallel to the ground? The manual shows it one way and the "How to build Cobra kit cars" book shows it the other way. I am using the spindles that come with the MK4 kit...
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4465/37870024191_7ffaed1525_b.jpg

[Papa]

I started on the upper control arms this evening, but ran into some conflicting info between the manual, the "How to build Cobra kit cars" book and the parts themselves. So now I have questions:

1. Looking at my arm and comparing to the manual, I think it is assembled wrong. Should the threaded end be flipped the other way?
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4511/37870021601_739c6e8f96_b.jpg

2. Which mounting holes do I use in the frame? The holes with center lines that are perpendicular to the ground, or the holes that are parallel to the ground? The manual shows it one way and the "How to build Cobra kit cars" book shows it the other way. I am using the spindles that come with the MK4 kit...
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4465/37870024191_7ffaed1525_b.jpg

You need to flip the pivot bar over so that the ball joint angle is reversed. For the MK4 complete kit, use the mounting location perpendicular to the ground.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4283/35627355242_53407d63f1_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Whgvty)

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4284/35627354442_50321ed165_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/WhgveL)

I later flipped the bolts over so the nuts were on the bottom.

[Yama-Bro]

Thanks Dude!:D

[Ray]

While you are assembling things, make sure to think about access to the zerk fittings, or if you have to remove a bolt etc. after it's all together.

Ray

[Vspeeds]

Interesting. My car’s (#9180) arms were assembled upside down also.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Papa has it. Keep in mind that the upper arms are from an outside vendor and not FFR specific therefore they need to be assembled by the end user into the proper configuration for the application---in our case that is with the ball joint plate angled outward and the fittings on the top of the crossbar links. When using the FFR spindles the arms get mounted to the side holes and if using donor spindles they go on top. BTW, the "How to build..." book was created based on an early Mk4 and there have been a number of updates by FFR since it was published so some of the information is outdated.

Good luck!

Jeff

[mach'er]

Piggybacking on this thread for a related question (I hope Yama-Bro doesn't mind)... Is there a good initial position for the adjusting sleeves? Like, number of exposed threads on each end, front and rear?

I see the OP has his almost fully engaged with almost no threads showing past the jam nuts (as are mine currently), and Papa has a significant portion of thread exposed. I know this is set when aligning the front end, but is there a spot to go to during initial assembly to get roughly ballpark close?

Thanks!

[Papa]

Piggybacking on this thread for a related question (I hope Yama-Bro doesn't mind)... Is there a good initial position for the adjusting sleeves? Like, number of exposed threads on each end, front and rear?

I see the OP has his almost fully engaged with almost no threads showing past the jam nuts (as are mine currently), and Papa has a significant portion of thread exposed. I know this is set when aligning the front end, but is there a spot to go to during initial assembly to get roughly ballpark close?

Thanks!

Mine have much less exposed threads now that the full suspension is assembled and I have my wheels "eye-ball" aligned. As I was assembling the front end, I tried to get the upper and lower ball joint studs to be at about the same point. Once the spindles go on you can get a better feel for the needed adjustments.

Dave

[Yama-Bro]

Piggybacking on this thread for a related question (I hope Yama-Bro doesn't mind)...



No prob! I was wondering the same thing, but wasn't ready to ask yet. :D


Everyone else, thanks for the responses. This forum is great! I wish there was something like this for every project I took on. LOL

[jwebb]

No prob! I was wondering the same thing, but wasn't ready to ask yet. :D


Everyone else, thanks for the responses. This forum is great! I wish there was something like this for every project I took on. LOL

Now you have me thinking, are these correct? 7578375784

[Straversi]

Now you have me thinking, are these correct? 7578375784
Yes, those are correct.
-Steve

[edwardb]

Piggybacking on this thread for a related question (I hope Yama-Bro doesn't mind)... Is there a good initial position for the adjusting sleeves? Like, number of exposed threads on each end, front and rear?

I see the OP has his almost fully engaged with almost no threads showing past the jam nuts (as are mine currently), and Papa has a significant portion of thread exposed. I know this is set when aligning the front end, but is there a spot to go to during initial assembly to get roughly ballpark close?

Thanks!

Very generally as a starting point during initial assembly, the rear UCA adjusters can be threaded most of the way in, and the front UCA adjusters somewhere in the middle. For the tie rod ends, with the rack centered, adjust them so the spindles are pointed basically straight ahead with the LCA's raised and parallel to the ground. That will get you in the ballpark until more is assembled and later when actually doing an alignment.

[mach'er]

Very generally as a starting point during initial assembly, the rear UCA adjusters can be threaded most of the way in, and the front UCA adjusters somewhere in the middle. For the tie rod ends, with the rack centered, adjust them so the spindles are pointed basically straight ahead with the LCA's raised and parallel to the ground. That will get you in the ballpark until more is assembled and later when actually doing an alignment.

Thanks!

[Ducky2009]

Piggybacking on this thread for a related question (I hope Yama-Bro doesn't mind)... Is there a good initial position for the adjusting sleeves? Like, number of exposed threads on each end, front and rear?

I see the OP has his almost fully engaged with almost no threads showing past the jam nuts (as are mine currently), and Papa has a significant portion of thread exposed. I know this is set when aligning the front end, but is there a spot to go to during initial assembly to get roughly ballpark close?

Thanks!


I Aligned my front end and found out the rear adjuster needed to be as short as possible. I ended up unbolting the link, screwing each end all the way in and reassembling (to ensure that one end didn't have an extra thread or two). I could only achieve 5 degrees caster. Power steering setting should be 7 degrees. I found posts stated that you have to cut about 1/4" off the rear link to achieve 7 degrees.... and some said they could achieve 7 degrees without cutting. I would try it first before cutting.

75786

[boat737]

I cut mine, see post 13 here. http://www.ffcars.com/forums/17-factory-five-roadsters/611265-issue-setting-camber.html

[CraigS]

There seems to be some slight variation frame to frame but only slight. How much caster you can get often depends on how much negative camber you want. I have helped w/ 3 mkIVs and was able to get 6.5 caster by staying to only 1/4 deg camber. I like the idea of starting by shortening the rear sleeve as much as possible. I always end up there so it would be easier to start there. What I have found over the years on many cars is that unless you are autocrossing, all camber does is wear out the inside of the front tires. The Lexus version of the Camry speced camber at -3/4 for many model years. We replaced a lot of tires w/ the inside bald and 4/32 on the outside.

[TexasAviator]

im in the same boat. Asked this in my build thread too. Are these correct? The build book has the zerk facing down like mine are here, but you all have yours facing up. Which is it or does it even matter?

Can anyone tell me if this set up looks correct to you.

I have a few boxes of hardware, washers, bolts, etc for spares and needed to use some larger washers to make up for the lack provided with the kit. But everything in the front end got washers. I am going to pull the spindles and knuckles and send them off for powder coat. They are SN95 units that came with the 2300K brake upgrade kit. The bearings are repacked and clean, they have a nice clean coat of surface rust but the machines surfaces are nice and clean. I installed a bump steer kit that can be installed several ways to give hight adjustment to the rack and pinion. What do you all think. Additionally, I have 13" brakes for the front and 11.65 for the rear.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4510/37112569154_d1211f959e_q.jpg (https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4510/37112569154_7a8c41764e_h.jpg) https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4476/37112569104_93e120a6c0_q.jpg (https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4476/37112569104_9ce54402da_h.jpg) https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4460/37112570464_07057eb42d_q.jpg (https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4460/37112570464_b3d13c094a_h.jpg) https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4482/37112570954_a6a6bec9d9_q.jpg (https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4482/37112570954_677dcfea5f_h.jpg)

[Jeff Kleiner]

Texas,
Your ball joint plates are correct but you'll find it difficult to lube the crossbar pivots with the zerks pointing down. Now would be the time to swap them (and when you put it back together orient the bolts connecting the links to pivots and ball joint plate from the top with the nuts on the down side).

Cheers,
Jeff

[TexasAviator]

Thank you Jeff. I have the suspension off now for the powder coat and paint. I will heed your advice.