Do you use your shoulder harness?

[mburger]

So it's a nice night out. No rain. Moon is out. Took the Cobra out for a drive. Heading south on 41 in the village of Punta Gorda doing 30mph. Light traffic. Green lights as far as you can see. This <insert expletive> pulling a boat blows a red light to cross in front of me. I lock up all four wheels and about wet myself. I'm not quite through the intersection stopped and the light is still green. I'm now waving my arms in the air pointing at the bright green light in my face asking him not so politely what he is doing as he backs up. Also it seems that people like to ride right up on my rear license plate. These cars are light and stop fairly quick. If I need to stop quick, the tailgaters bumper is in my back.

So this got me thinking. I have generally just strapped the waist belt on and go, not hooking in the shoulder straps. Now I'm thinking maybe I'm playing Russian Roulette in a car with little protection.

I'm curious if you folks generally use your shoulder harness. I will be from now on.

[Ray]

I not only use the shoulder straps, I've installed the 5th point (anti-submarine belt.) It keeps the lap belt at the pelvic region where it belongs, and also helps to keep you from sliding out from under the belt.

If I take the car onto public streets, it's all attached. I've seen enough injury due to collisions to last me a couple of life times.

Here is a short video (child seat, but you'll get the idea.) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4vglpF7LZs

Ray

[mburger]

Thanks Ray. I'll need to research the 5th point but going forward, I'm hooking in the shoulder straps.

[CDXXVII]

I can't imagine not using all 5 points of attachment. Why would you only use your lap belt. It cant possibly be that you are in that much of a hurry. Then there's the loose shoulder harnesses banging around.

I gotta say, I actually enjoy strapping in. I feel like I'm driving a race car. Oh yeah, I am driving a race car.

[Bobby Doug]

All the time. I don't even think twice about not using them. I make my passengers wear them too.

[AC Bill]

I use all 5 points, all the time. I wish my daily driver had them..

[Svtfreak]

Absolutely! If it rolls over, that's what will stop you from ending up under the roll bar!

I use that time while strapping in to remind myself that I am not in a cage, not in a safe little haven, and must drive like I used to ride my motorcycle. I remind myself to be cool, and that that car will try to kill me. Then, I start my little prayer before I fire it up. This centers myself and brings forth the importance nice of the task at hand.

[Jeff Kleiner]

All 5 all the time. A friend recently had a relatively low speed fender bender in his roadster when someone blew a stop sign. Neither her nor the passenger were using the shoulder belts and got bumped up a bit---could have been much worse had there been more speed involved.

This question comes up regularly and I always quote my dear friend John Phillips when it does "I looked around the cockpit and didn't see anything I wanted to hit myself in the face with." ;)

Jeff

[edwardb]

Put me down as 5 points all the time as well. And I demand it from my passengers as well. No exceptions.

[CraigS]

It's not a good idea to were shoulder belts w/o a crotch belt. Problem is that, as you body moves forward, the shoulder belts will pull the lap belt upward. The lap belt is supposed to be keeping your hips in position. When it rides upward it will be pulling on your intestines, kidneys etc, instead of your hips.

[Dan Babb]

I used to run my first FFR without the crotch belt. I was convinced by an instructor at a track session to install it once he saw how the lap belt was riding up on me.

It's a night & day difference in how effective the belts are with the crotch belt installed.

Sure, we'll read about a guy in their cobra wrecking the car because they weren't being smart, but most of the time, we all drive safely because we know we have the safety of driving a 4 wheeled motorcycle. It's usually some other jerk who winds up nailing us.

Don't run the car without all 5 points on the belt connected...it's not worth the risk.

[BEAR-AvHistory]

5 point on 100% of the time.

[mburger]

Thanks everyone for the input. Really appreciate it. I only have 4 points, so I need to research adding the sub belt to both seats. On a personal note, most of my back is fused. I basically bend at the waist and my neck is ok. Simply put, I don't slouch, I literally can't, but I understand in an accident your body does things it's not supposed to do. I understand CraigS' point about wearing the shoulder straps without the sub belt, but I can't help thinking that is what's going to keep me in the car should the unthinkable happen. Either way, it looks like adding a sub/crotch belt is a priority for my safety and my passengers.

[Big Blocker]

What Jeff said in post #8 "I looked around the cockpit and didn't see anything I wanted to hit myself in the face with."

Goes right along with "If I disrespect it, it will kill me". Thoughts that I say in my head every time I get out on the Hiways of America.
Drive for everyone else around you, they are more-than-likely distracted anyway (read: cell phone, Big Mac, passengers, a Cobra right next to them . . . ).
Be careful out there!

[Plebeian]

My friend got his teeth knocked out against the steering wheel using just a lap belt. I also have high back seats as I believe in protecting my neck.

[wareaglescott]

All 5, all the time in the car.
Funny thing...my plane has 5 point harnesses. Per regulations and company procedure we only have to wear the shoulder harnesses for takeoff and landing. Most guys flip the shoulder harnesses off pretty much immediately after takeoff. I used to do that but now that I have spent so much time wearing them in the Cobra I am so used to them I find myself keeping them on the entire flight for the shorter flights. Still take them off at cruising altitude on the longer ones. I guess it is like my security blanket now. haha

I do believe a 4 point system doesn't protect you nearly as well. Get that 5th point for sure!

[mburger]

I not only use the shoulder straps, I've installed the 5th point (anti-submarine belt.) It keeps the lap belt at the pelvic region where it belongs, and also helps to keep you from sliding out from under the belt.

Ray

Ray, did you add the sub belt to your 4 point? If so, I may ping you for more info.

[Avalanche325]

I don't remember who. But a member of the other forum and his wife both got facial injuries by just wearing lap belts.

All 5 all the time.

[GoDadGo]

All 5, all the time in the car.
Funny thing...my plane has 5 point harnesses.
Get that 5th point for sure!

If A Commercial Pilot Uses Them Every Day That He Goes To Work Then So Should We!
Make note that it doesn't matter what we are flying, even if it is on four wheels.
Thanks, War Eagle Scott, Thanks!

Steve

[mburger]

Avalanche325 Not good.

[FFinisher]

All 5 all the time. A friend recently had a relatively low speed fender bender in his roadster when someone blew a stop sign. Neither her nor the passenger were using the shoulder belts and got bumped up a bit---could have been much worse had there been more speed involved.

This question comes up regularly and I always quote my dear friend John Phillips when it does "I looked around the cockpit and didn't see anything I wanted to hit myself in the face with." ;)

Jeff


:confused::confused::confused:

[Itchief]

I use my seat belt/harness every time I drive/ride in any vehicle.

When I was 18, I wrecked my car at about 35 MPH and I kissed the steering wheel. I found out very quickly that you are not strong enough to stop yourself from hitting the wheel, dash etc in a crash.

Rick

[Chuck Sloggett]

All 5 saved me. Hit the wall at about 80 MPH on a drag strip, rolled twice and hit the opposite wall. Even lost my helmet on impact (long story), The roll bar and 5 point did their job and I only suffered a few bruises. -- Chuck

[Cfehrenb]

Yes to all 5 for me as well. Same as most posting already.
Just a small addition to this conversation - regarding tailgating. I too found that some like to ride close. As all of you know, our cars sit low. If we need to stop quickly, I found that many seemed to not see my brake lights. I followed AdamC 's creative suggestion to use a plasma rod for a third brake light. It is COMPLETELY worth the $$! It took only minutes to connect. I attached suction cups to mine-- for quick removal if needed, but I've found that I drive with it on 24/7. If anyone is interested in pictures or where I found mine, PM me and I can send you the details. It makes a HUGE difference in being noticed while in traffic.
CraigF

[mburger]

All 5 saved me. Hit the wall at about 80 MPH on a drag strip, rolled twice and hit the opposite wall. Even lost my helmet on impact (long story), The roll bar and 5 point did their job and I only suffered a few bruises. -- Chuck

So glad you were not injured more than that!
I broke both hands, was paralysied temporarily, broke my pelvis and messed up my Achilles on my left foot and suffered nerve damage in a motorcycle accident. We can swap stories.
I am getting the message loud and clear. All 5 all the time.

[mburger]

Absolutely! If it rolls over, that's what will stop you from ending up under the roll bar!

I use that time while strapping in to remind myself that I am not in a cage, not in a safe little haven, and must drive like I used to ride my motorcycle. I remind myself to be cool, and that that car will try to kill me. Then, I start my little prayer before I fire it up. This centers myself and brings forth the importance nice of the task at hand.

Good advice. Thanks.

[MARIAH]

Same here......A5ATT.

[ckrueger]

Have any of you done a good seat mod for the submarine belt? Running over the front of the seat is not the ideal solution, but better than nothing. I know in the race car that would not be acceptable. Just read a good article on seat belts, HANS devices and the proper way they all should be mounted. There are a lot of misunderstandings out there. Probably not as much of an issue for the true daily driver, but since these are very capable machines, something to think about. They also talked about the amount of counterfeit safety equipment out there with F.A.I & SFI stickers out there. If the price is to good be true, it probably isn't.

[Duke]

There's only one belt on the market that I'm aware of that is safe on the street as 4 point: Schroth ASM (Anti-submarining system)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nsg_ze-CG8

If you don't have the 5th belt installed then don't run the shoulder harnesses. It's safer to run just the lap belts vs. 4 points and having the belts pull up and do damage to your internal organs in the event of a crash.

[ThickCobra]

All 5 all the time. A friend recently had a relatively low speed fender bender in his roadster when someone blew a stop sign. Neither her nor the passenger were using the shoulder belts and got bumped up a bit---could have been much worse had there been more speed involved.

This question comes up regularly and I always quote my dear friend John Phillips when it does "I looked around the cockpit and didn't see anything I wanted to hit myself in the face with." ;)

Jeff

Jeff,

Great advice. I just received my temporary plate in the mail so I will be doing some serious driving today. It's a little cool but the skies are clear. I spent yesterday installing the lap, shoulder and submarine belts. I had to show my wife and she was impressed, but, she asked if all that was necessary. I shared your quote from John Phillips and she got the picture. Thanks.

Jay

[Bud K]

I got a ticket in California for not wearing my shoulder harness in my Jeep. I replaced the stock seat belts with a Simpson harness because too much sand dunes mucked up the retractor mechanism. Anyway, California law states 'Passenger Restraint System'. Got a ticket even though I was still wearing my lap belt when the cop pulled me over. Another cop friend told me I couldn't fight it.

If you got it, use it!

[GoDadGo]

There's only one belt on the market that I'm aware of that is safe on the street as 4 point: Schroth ASM (Anti-submarining system)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nsg_ze-CG8

If you don't have the 5th belt installed then don't run the shoulder harnesses. It's safer to run just the lap belts vs. 4 points and having the belts pull up and do damage to your internal organs in the event of a crash.

Wow!

[Gilmore]

All 5 - Both seats - 100%

[1932]

What have people done to the 33 seats to use the 5th belt? Will have head pad built into roll cage.
As in hole in seat for belt.

[mcmustang]

Thanks to this thread, I just went out and installed the 5th belt in both seats. You guys are lifesavers!

[wareaglescott]

You guys are lifesavers!

Well hopefully not literally! Glad you have them now though.

[mburger]

Thanks to this thread, I just went out and installed the 5th belt in both seats. You guys are lifesavers!

Before this thread a sub/crotch/5th whatever belt wasn't even a thought. Now I see the importance. In my very short time of FFR Cobra ownership, I am amazed at the knowledge within this community and the willingness to help folks like me that know nothing. That includes the supporting vendors.

[mcmustang]

I have a gen 2 coupe and there is a little welded in reinforcement plate under the seat. I drilled a half inch hole in it and bolted in the 5th belt. It's as simple as it gets.

[Cfehrenb]

Wow!

X2. Thanks for the video. Even more obvious of the importance of all 5

[Ray]

I got a ticket in California for not wearing my shoulder harness in my Jeep. I replaced the stock seat belts with a Simpson harness because too much sand dunes mucked up the retractor mechanism. Anyway, California law states 'Passenger Restraint System'. Got a ticket even though I was still wearing my lap belt when the cop pulled me over. Another cop friend told me I couldn't fight it.

If you got it, use it!

He's right. The "restraint system" is required to be worn as designed. This includes placing the shoulder belt portion of the 3-way belt (standard in all vehicles) under the arm. It only takes seeing the collision injuries caused by improper seat belt usage to see why.

Ray

[alv69]

after reading this forum I went out and put the anti sub belt in my car and will use them all from now on.

[DaveS53]

He's right. The "restraint system" is required to be worn as designed. This includes placing the shoulder belt portion of the 3-way belt (standard in all vehicles) under the arm. It only takes seeing the collision injuries caused by improper seat belt usage to see why.

Ray

The shoulder belt should never be placed under the arm. It goes over the shoulder, between the neck and arm.

http://imminet.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/3079P-Seat-Belt-Usage-Instructions-Rev2_lores.pdf

[EZ$]

Is there an anti submarine belt available that can be added to the F5R harness (the one that comes with the Mk4 kit)?
Rick

[edwardb]

Is there an anti submarine belt available that can be added to the F5R harness (the one that comes with the Mk4 kit)?
Rick

It's in the box with the rest of the belts from Simpson.

[dallas_]

Sounds like you got the answer you were looking for.
My answer is the same....hell yes, 5 point harness at all times. Wouldn't dream of leaving the garage without being fully buckled up.

[smithbks]

Just have to throw my 2 cents in as I drove for many months with just the 4pt harness (I always wear the shoulder harness). I finally got around to adding the submarine belt. Wow! What a difference. I can't believe how far up the lap belt would come when fully tightened with just 4pts. The submarine belt locks everything where it is supposed to go. The best part is that it is more comfortable than ever, and I feel safer.

But, don't let anybody fool you, putting it all on is now slightly more of a pain because you have to push it all together real tight to get all three tangs in. And, first time passengers will make you frustrated because they struggle with it. But the rewards are worth it.

[charles roybal]

5 point all the time!!!! Why? I was T-boned in my MK3!!!!! Wear them ALL THE TIME gents!
Charles

[srobinsonx2]

I am not a seasoned expert and have no horror stories to share. I can share that for the whole 345 miles I have driven so far (I know, not much) I wear the 5 point harness all the time.

Personally, I think it is COOL!!! Looks bada** in my opinion. But that is just me.

[AC Bill]

But, don't let anybody fool you, putting it all on is now slightly more of a pain because you have to push it all together real tight to get all three tangs in. And, first time passengers will make you frustrated because they struggle with it. But the rewards are worth it.

You shouldn't have to fight them..I loosen all my belts when I first climb in, (other than the anti-sub belt), buckle them all up, then re-tighten them. To loosen them, pull up on the little white Simpson tabs, while pulling the buckle ends of the belts out. Before a passenger gets in I loosen their belts, to make it a bit eeasier, but I know what you mean, as even then it takes them a bit to understand how they buckle together..:D

[Ray]

But please remember to release the parking brake FIRST!!!! Otherwise, you have to unbuckle, release the brake and buckle up again. Apparently I'm a slow learner as I still forget sometimes and it's been 16 years.

Ray

[AC Bill]

But please remember to release the parking brake FIRST!!!! Otherwise, you have to unbuckle, release the brake and buckle up again. Apparently I'm a slow learner as I still forget sometimes and it's been 16 years. Ray

:p Good advice Ray..I have had the problem of climbing in, getting all strapped down, and then realizing the ignition key is still in my jeans pocket. It is near impossible to dig them out without considerable effort, to the point that it's easier to get back out of the car and retrieve them..

[otto halstead]

ALL 5 ALL The TIME! A lady turned her F150 in front of me and I went from 40ish to 0 in about 15 feet and rotated 90 degrees clockwise. Only injury was bruised knuckles that hit the dash. (And a broken heart as my FFR MKII was totaled)

[mburger]

Sorry to hear that about your car. Glad you weren't seriously injured.

[slaga]

I wear all 5 all the time. I loosen the left waist belt and both shoulder belts before I unhook it. It is much easier to loosen them when they are all still connected. It is easy to put them back together when I get back in the car and I tighten the left waist belt and then both shoulder when I get back in. It is the quickest way I have found.

[mcmustang]

But please remember to release the parking brake FIRST!!!! Otherwise, you have to unbuckle, release the brake and buckle up again. Apparently I'm a slow learner as I still forget sometimes and it's been 16 years.

Ray

That is the reason I put a Lokar e-brake on the top of the transmission tunnel. Took some engineering, but don't have to unbuckle to set/release the parking brake.